Re: great iphone article
Hello All. I come quite late to this thread. I am a braille transcriber and live in the UK. To assure you all that capitalised braille is used by children who are in education here in the UK as I am transcribing books on a daily basis. Seconly, this debate about correct spelling is not due to the usage of speech itself but to how children are taught in schools and this will be so until the end of time. Thirdly, I dislike people who put braille down (this is so by the younger generation who have grown up with computers) and does a disservice to our braille. To get back on topic, we need refreshable braille to use with our I phones in my opinion az we blind users remember more when information is at our fingertips. I grew up with no computers, no internet or E-mail so appreciate the advancement of technologies. Thank you for your attention. Kawal. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: great iphone article
and you know why braille displays are expensive? Our old problem, not many displays are made thus costs go up and blind people can't afford due circumstances, I'm not even going down that road. A catch 22 situation! On 4 May 2012, at 01:47 PM, Russ Kiehne wb6...@141.com wrote: Remember, many blind people don't have the money to buy a braille display because of there cost. -Original Message- From: Krister Ekstrom Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 10:04 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: great iphone article I have talked with someone who teaches various skills to blind people and she said she had heard assistive technology people say why do they want braille displays, there's the synthetic speech and it's good enough. If it's true that they actually say so, then that should be a sign of warning. /Krister 3 maj 2012 kl. 18:31 skrev Kimber Gardner: I also don't buy into the statements that devices which make things easier for us are also making us dumber. I said something similar to my husband after reading the article which was, on the whole, pretty good. But the assertion that screen readers and audiobooks are responsible for blind kids/adults not being able to spell is ludicrous. It's our lousy educational system that produces rotten spellers, not adaptive technology. K -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: great iphone article
Good article. I didn't see anything wrong with it, the parts where they said that Dragon Dictation was half baked was just one of the blind persons point of view. It wasn't the point of view of the author. Well riten article, and well thought out. Ed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: great iphone article
I agree, but the statement about Dragon Dictation did seem out of place to me. With all other apps, except for maybe Android itself, it provided constructive criticism on what the app was missing. The author could have easily left out the statement about Dragon Dictation, without taking away from the article at all. I also don't buy into the statements that devices which make things easier for us are also making us dumber. I hear the same thing about sighted children, and it sounds a bit to me like what every generation says about the next generation. If something makes our lives easier in one area then we can challenge ourselves, and maybe have more time to do it, in other areas. On 03/05/12 09:25, Ed Worrell wrote: Good article. I didn't see anything wrong with it, the parts where they said that Dragon Dictation was half baked was just one of the blind persons point of view. It wasn't the point of view of the author. Well riten article, and well thought out. Ed -- Christopher (CJ) chalt...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: great iphone article
I agree, the article was good overall. I hope it does raise awareness to the sighted community that we are also able to use an off-the shelf product if accessability is included. Thanks for sharing. Katey On 5/3/12, Christopher Chaltain chalt...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, but the statement about Dragon Dictation did seem out of place to me. With all other apps, except for maybe Android itself, it provided constructive criticism on what the app was missing. The author could have easily left out the statement about Dragon Dictation, without taking away from the article at all. I also don't buy into the statements that devices which make things easier for us are also making us dumber. I hear the same thing about sighted children, and it sounds a bit to me like what every generation says about the next generation. If something makes our lives easier in one area then we can challenge ourselves, and maybe have more time to do it, in other areas. On 03/05/12 09:25, Ed Worrell wrote: Good article. I didn't see anything wrong with it, the parts where they said that Dragon Dictation was half baked was just one of the blind persons point of view. It wasn't the point of view of the author. Well riten article, and well thought out. Ed -- Christopher (CJ) chalt...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- A true friend is someone who reaches for your hand and touches your heart. Visit my FaceBook page at: www.facebook.com/kateyjax -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: great iphone article
I also don't buy into the statements that devices which make things easier for us are also making us dumber. I said something similar to my husband after reading the article which was, on the whole, pretty good. But the assertion that screen readers and audiobooks are responsible for blind kids/adults not being able to spell is ludicrous. It's our lousy educational system that produces rotten spellers, not adaptive technology. K -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: great iphone article
It is not adaptive tech that is responsible for blind kids growing up unable to spell. It is a lack of braille literacy. You do not learn to spell from an audio book. -Len I agree, but the statement about Dragon Dictation did seem out of place to me. With all other apps, except for maybe Android itself, it provided constructive criticism on what the app was missing. The author could have easily left out the statement about Dragon Dictation, without taking away from the article at all. I also don't buy into the statements that devices which make things easier for us are also making us dumber. I hear the same thing about sighted children, and it sounds a bit to me like what every generation says about the next generation. If something makes our lives easier in one area then we can challenge ourselves, and maybe have more time to do it, in other areas. On 03/05/12 09:25, Ed Worrell wrote: Good article. I didn't see anything wrong with it, the parts where they said that Dragon Dictation was half baked was just one of the blind persons point of view. It wasn't the point of view of the author. Well riten article, and well thought out. Ed -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: great iphone article
Hello Kimber, without trying to start a non-Apple product debate on list, I have to respectfully disagree with the following statement you made. the assertion that screen readers and audiobooks are responsible for blind kids/adults not being able to spell is ludicrous. It's our lousy educational system that produces rotten spellers, not adaptive technology. I am willing to discuss this further off list since I know it's not list related. I agree that the educational system has its problems and can stand to use betterment. My seven year old first grader is bored out of his mind because of the math curriculum the public schools use here. And so he gets into trouble because he doesn't have something to challenge him. So, to make up for that, I have him do extra things at home and he's very advanced in math. However, it has been proven that the same part of the brain is stimulated when a sighted person reads print with their eyes or a blind person reads Braille with their fingers. That same part is not stimulated when a person, blind or sighted is only listening to material such as synthetic speech or audio books. This contributes to why many people zone out when only listening to audio. It's also proven, at least with blind people that in many cases, those who depend on speech and haven't had much, if any Braille training, don't capitalize things. This is because they don't think that words need to be capitalized. It's sad, but on various blindness oriented lists I'm on, I see many people's display names or signatures without proper capitalization. In fact, many on this list fall into this category. Does that mean they aren't Braille readers, or are only speech users and don't know to capitalize things? Who is to say, but I would venture a guess that a great many are probably only speech users. Either that, or just lazy. Of course, with anything, there are always exceptions. One of my good friends is a school teacher and a brilliant one, however you would never know it by reading her emails. Regarding spelling, I can't really comment on that because I think poor spelling skills can be attributed to many factors. I am a horrid speller and so try to not impose my standards on others. I however, try to do my best by capitalizing things, spell things right, and if I'm stuck, I'll spell-check. English is my second language, and yet I am saddened to see many people who have full command of English, and yet they can't spell things like since, sense, scent, or cents. And worse yet, they can't use them in the proper context. Does it mean they are blind and only speech users? No, it really proves nothing in the end. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel there is some truth with the assertion that speech only users may have a harder time. I've seen it happen with people I know and in those situations, it hasn't been the educational system's fault. OK, I'm off my soapbox now. -- Raul A. Gallegos My Doctor told me that I'm paranoid, I wonder if he's told anyone else... Home Page: http://raulgallegos.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/rau47 Facebook: http://facebook.com/rgallegos74 On 5/3/2012 12:31 PM, Kimber Gardner wrote: I also don't buy into the statements that devices which make things easier for us are also making us dumber. I said something similar to my husband after reading the article which was, on the whole, pretty good. But the assertion that screen readers and audiobooks are responsible for blind kids/adults not being able to spell is ludicrous. It's our lousy educational system that produces rotten spellers, not adaptive technology. K -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: great iphone article
This is an article I read in the New York Times a couple of years ago about this topic. I went back and found it as it appears to be relevant to this whole theme. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/magazine/03Braille-t.html?_r=1pagewanted= print This is a link to the printable version which is less cluttered than the regular page. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of alex wallis Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:03 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: re: great iphone article Hi Raul, your message was quite interesting that you sent to the list, having said that, I must disagree with you about speech and audio meaning that people don't often capitalize sentences, or at least, I think maybe its a factor that makes people less likely to do it, but I think its also down to quality of education. I am not sure if you know this, but in the UK braille system, there is no official rule that says you must capitalize sentences and words using a dot six, or at least there wasn't when I was growing up. Having said that, I don't know if this is still correct as I believe when I finished education the powers that be were considering introducing this from the American braille code. Having said that, for most of my life up til the age of 12 I had little contact at all with computers, towards the end of primary school I did get the chance to use my first computer, a bbc micro and from then on my use of computers steadily increased to the point where braille is pretty much unused in my daily life. I am pretty good at capitalizing sentences, and words, though I must admit the spell check is very useful for this, and I do sometimes have to make a conscious effort when correcting messages before sending them to think about capitalizing certain words and sentences. But I always go through and check any e mail before sending it. What I think is a major factor in blind people being bad spellers is a combination of things, firstly the use of grade 2 Braille, I think that my learning this really impacted on my ability to spell correctly as I don't think I thought as much after learning it about how words should be spelled, and was thinking more about what contraction should be used where. The second thing I think that has impacted on the ability of blind people to spell is the use of spell check, as I don't know about anyone else, but normally when I use a spell check I don't stop to listen to the correct spelling always, though I do try to make an effort to do so when I have the time. Another area I am quite bad on is the use of punctuation and paragraphs, I find it quite hard knowing when to place punctuation, so I probably use far two much of it, and paragraphs I admit I hardly use unless I really think about it or someone checks something I have written and reminds me about them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: great iphone article
Hi Alex. Your points are well said. I did not know that UK Braille doesn't use the dot 6 for capitalizing words. Thanks for letting me know this. In regards to the capitalization, I was mainly referring to people's names and proper nouns. For example, in your email, the display name shows up as alex wallis instead of Alex Wallis. This is more of what I was meaning. I'm not trying to imply that it shows lack of education on the person, but more something like a lack of thinking of such things if the person uses speech for most of their daily computer usage. When I type, it's just natural to press the shift key after a period. And even in fact, when I wrote the example of your name, knowing I was typing a person's proper name, I pressed the shift key automatically. It's just what I'm used to because of how I learned about grammar and proper nouns. Regarding the spelling issues for Braille users, I completely agree. In fact, I'm making sure to let my 7 year old know that he can't rely on contracted Braille for everything in terms of knowing his spelling. It's sad when a child can't spell knowledge or necessary because they only know the Braille. I think that regardless of what technology is available to people, basic things like proper spelling, grammar, and math should be taught so that the reliance on technology isn't absolute. Sorry all for getting off topic on this. I'd be happy to discuss more regarding this off list if someone still wants to. I don't want this to get heated, and I really should moderate myself. *smile*. -- Raul A. Gallegos Why does someone believe you when you say there are four billion stars; but have to check when you say the paint is still wet? Home Page: http://raulgallegos.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/rau47 Facebook: http://facebook.com/rgallegos74 On 5/3/2012 3:02 PM, alex wallis wrote: Hi Raul, your message was quite interesting that you sent to the list, having said that, I must disagree with you about speech and audio meaning that people don't often capitalize sentences, or at least, I think maybe its a factor that makes people less likely to do it, but I think its also down to quality of education. I am not sure if you know this, but in the UK braille system, there is no official rule that says you must capitalize sentences and words using a dot six, or at least there wasn't when I was growing up. Having said that, I don't know if this is still correct as I believe when I finished education the powers that be were considering introducing this from the American braille code. Having said that, for most of my life up til the age of 12 I had little contact at all with computers, towards the end of primary school I did get the chance to use my first computer, a bbc micro and from then on my use of computers steadily increased to the point where braille is pretty much unused in my daily life. I am pretty good at capitalizing sentences, and words, though I must admit the spell check is very useful for this, and I do sometimes have to make a conscious effort when correcting messages before sending them to think about capitalizing certain words and sentences. But I always go through and check any e mail before sending it. What I think is a major factor in blind people being bad spellers is a combination of things, firstly the use of grade 2 Braille, I think that my learning this really impacted on my ability to spell correctly as I don't think I thought as much after learning it about how words should be spelled, and was thinking more about what contraction should be used where. The second thing I think that has impacted on the ability of blind people to spell is the use of spell check, as I don't know about anyone else, but normally when I use a spell check I don't stop to listen to the correct spelling always, though I do try to make an effort to do so when I have the time. Another area I am quite bad on is the use of punctuation and paragraphs, I find it quite hard knowing when to place punctuation, so I probably use far two much of it, and paragraphs I admit I hardly use unless I really think about it or someone checks something I have written and reminds me about them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: great iphone article
Interesting article. Thanks for posting it. I myself am pro braille. I think it should be taught and used to teach things like spelling, grammar, punctuation and so on. It also becomes another tool in a successful blind person's arsenal. IMHO, when giving a speech, I think braille notes are still far superior to any speech output device. On the other hand though, I don't think comparing a blind person's use of speech output or technology to an oral culture or times before the Gutenberg press were invented is accurate either. Using speech output, I have access to the written text and the written text available to most people in society today. Using note takers and speech output, ideas are not ephemeral. I can write them down and recall them at will. I would agree that before the use of computers and speech output, a blind person who didn't know braille could be called illiterate and could be compared to someone living in an oral culture. I don't think that's the case now. I also don't think it's an either or choice between braille and speech. They're both important tools that a successful blind person needs. On 03/05/12 14:10, Cristobal wrote: This is an article I read in the New York Times a couple of years ago about this topic. I went back and found it as it appears to be relevant to this whole theme. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/magazine/03Braille-t.html?_r=1pagewanted= print This is a link to the printable version which is less cluttered than the regular page. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of alex wallis Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:03 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: re: great iphone article Hi Raul, your message was quite interesting that you sent to the list, having said that, I must disagree with you about speech and audio meaning that people don't often capitalize sentences, or at least, I think maybe its a factor that makes people less likely to do it, but I think its also down to quality of education. I am not sure if you know this, but in the UK braille system, there is no official rule that says you must capitalize sentences and words using a dot six, or at least there wasn't when I was growing up. Having said that, I don't know if this is still correct as I believe when I finished education the powers that be were considering introducing this from the American braille code. Having said that, for most of my life up til the age of 12 I had little contact at all with computers, towards the end of primary school I did get the chance to use my first computer, a bbc micro and from then on my use of computers steadily increased to the point where braille is pretty much unused in my daily life. I am pretty good at capitalizing sentences, and words, though I must admit the spell check is very useful for this, and I do sometimes have to make a conscious effort when correcting messages before sending them to think about capitalizing certain words and sentences. But I always go through and check any e mail before sending it. What I think is a major factor in blind people being bad spellers is a combination of things, firstly the use of grade 2 Braille, I think that my learning this really impacted on my ability to spell correctly as I don't think I thought as much after learning it about how words should be spelled, and was thinking more about what contraction should be used where. The second thing I think that has impacted on the ability of blind people to spell is the use of spell check, as I don't know about anyone else, but normally when I use a spell check I don't stop to listen to the correct spelling always, though I do try to make an effort to do so when I have the time. Another area I am quite bad on is the use of punctuation and paragraphs, I find it quite hard knowing when to place punctuation, so I probably use far two much of it, and paragraphs I admit I hardly use unless I really think about it or someone checks something I have written and reminds me about them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- Christopher (CJ) chalt...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: great iphone article
Thank you for re-posting this article, although I'm not sure it is as much about use of speech as it is about the lack of use of Braille. As long as several folks have put in their two cents worth, I may as well join the list. It wasn't until I was 30 that computers became usable for blind folks. This meant that I had to learn Braille and indeed, did, before starting Kindergarden. I will attempt to deliniate some of the many uses I have found for Braille beyond the classroom. 1. Playing games such as Monopoly and cards. Each gives me a way to deal with my sighted peers on a level playing field and a social outlet. 2. Elevators. How many of you remember getting on elevators and not having them having Braille to identify the various floors. I've even seen some of them in the early days with dymo-tape, now, at least I can travel in a public building just like everyone else, making use of Braille to find restrooms, offices, sometimes and floors. 3. Okay, so some of you cook by listening to the recipe, but look at how many cookbooks are available in Braille. I know of one seller who must make a mint on the mark-up for their Braille volumes. 4. Being a ham operator I used to log all my contacts in Braille, now with a computer, I can log the contact on my Braille Note, check it for accuracy and move on. Sometimes when I'm involved in a contest I will Braille out the txt file just to go over it. 5. I suppose I was one of the lucky students who was able to receive most all my books through high school in Braille. I learned how to learn using Braille. When I went to college, no more Braille and I had to learn by listening, not much fun, in fact, much more difficult. Now, I understand that college students get to select the best means for them to receive their texts in in order for them to learn, what a luxury. 6. Although I can identify many cans and boxes in my cupboard with the use of my phone or sighted assistance, I do, occasionally use Braille labels. 7. So, how many of you identify your music collection, on CD by making use of the bar codes accessible on the cases? Braille labels and CD's, what a novel idea. 8. It has also been pointed out that of those who are able to make use of Braille, the employment rate is higher. Don't get me wrong, I love the advantage of being able to use speech on the fly. I enjoy all of the tools that my Iphone and talking computer provide me with, and although I don't use Braille as much as I did in the past, I'm always glad to know it's there if I need it. And please, don't tell me there aren't as many teachers to teach Braille any more, because there are parents, and there are consumer organizations which advocate the use of Braille, so if you're concerned about that, get involved. Also, how do you identify records or cassettes of books if you don't know Braille, put them in the player, okay, well how long does that take with six or more of either? Have you ever enjoyed just picking up a volume of the Encyclopedia in Braille and reading through it? It's 144 volumes, or used to be, I'm not sure if they even put them in to Braille any more. And I remember a dictionary which was 72 volumes. Fred Olver - Original Message - From: Cristobal crismuno...@gmail.com To: viphone@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:10 PM Subject: RE: great iphone article This is an article I read in the New York Times a couple of years ago about this topic. I went back and found it as it appears to be relevant to this whole theme. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/magazine/03Braille-t.html?_r=1pagewanted= print This is a link to the printable version which is less cluttered than the regular page. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of alex wallis Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:03 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: re: great iphone article Hi Raul, your message was quite interesting that you sent to the list, having said that, I must disagree with you about speech and audio meaning that people don't often capitalize sentences, or at least, I think maybe its a factor that makes people less likely to do it, but I think its also down to quality of education. I am not sure if you know this, but in the UK braille system, there is no official rule that says you must capitalize sentences and words using a dot six, or at least there wasn't when I was growing up. Having said that, I don't know if this is still correct as I believe when I finished education the powers that be were considering introducing this from the American braille code. Having said that, for most of my life up til the age of 12 I had little contact at all with computers, towards the end of primary school I did get the chance to use my first computer, a bbc micro and from then on my use of computers steadily increased to the point where braille is pretty much
RE: great iphone article
For me, braille is very important tool for my education, am playing and teaching music, without Braille I will not be able to read any music notes. So, thanks Braille so much! Cheers: Ramy Moustafa Owner and producer of Harmony recording studios skype: roma30 Facebook: moustafa.r...@gmail.com Twitter: Ramymoustafa youtube chanael: www.youtube.com/ramymoustafasaber -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 9:40 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: Cristobal Subject: Re: great iphone article Interesting article. Thanks for posting it. I myself am pro braille. I think it should be taught and used to teach things like spelling, grammar, punctuation and so on. It also becomes another tool in a successful blind person's arsenal. IMHO, when giving a speech, I think braille notes are still far superior to any speech output device. On the other hand though, I don't think comparing a blind person's use of speech output or technology to an oral culture or times before the Gutenberg press were invented is accurate either. Using speech output, I have access to the written text and the written text available to most people in society today. Using note takers and speech output, ideas are not ephemeral. I can write them down and recall them at will. I would agree that before the use of computers and speech output, a blind person who didn't know braille could be called illiterate and could be compared to someone living in an oral culture. I don't think that's the case now. I also don't think it's an either or choice between braille and speech. They're both important tools that a successful blind person needs. On 03/05/12 14:10, Cristobal wrote: This is an article I read in the New York Times a couple of years ago about this topic. I went back and found it as it appears to be relevant to this whole theme. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/magazine/03Braille-t.html?_r=1pagewanted= print This is a link to the printable version which is less cluttered than the regular page. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of alex wallis Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:03 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: re: great iphone article Hi Raul, your message was quite interesting that you sent to the list, having said that, I must disagree with you about speech and audio meaning that people don't often capitalize sentences, or at least, I think maybe its a factor that makes people less likely to do it, but I think its also down to quality of education. I am not sure if you know this, but in the UK braille system, there is no official rule that says you must capitalize sentences and words using a dot six, or at least there wasn't when I was growing up. Having said that, I don't know if this is still correct as I believe when I finished education the powers that be were considering introducing this from the American braille code. Having said that, for most of my life up til the age of 12 I had little contact at all with computers, towards the end of primary school I did get the chance to use my first computer, a bbc micro and from then on my use of computers steadily increased to the point where braille is pretty much unused in my daily life. I am pretty good at capitalizing sentences, and words, though I must admit the spell check is very useful for this, and I do sometimes have to make a conscious effort when correcting messages before sending them to think about capitalizing certain words and sentences. But I always go through and check any e mail before sending it. What I think is a major factor in blind people being bad spellers is a combination of things, firstly the use of grade 2 Braille, I think that my learning this really impacted on my ability to spell correctly as I don't think I thought as much after learning it about how words should be spelled, and was thinking more about what contraction should be used where. The second thing I think that has impacted on the ability of blind people to spell is the use of spell check, as I don't know about anyone else, but normally when I use a spell check I don't stop to listen to the correct spelling always, though I do try to make an effort to do so when I have the time. Another area I am quite bad on is the use of punctuation and paragraphs, I find it quite hard knowing when to place punctuation, so I probably use far two much of it, and paragraphs I admit I hardly use unless I really think about it or someone checks something I have written and reminds me about them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from
RE: great iphone article
Ditto! I learned braille at a very young age and have since become an avid reader. I don't have the patience or comprehension level, as a result, to listen to audio books, files or anything else for any great length of time. As a court stenographer, I would think that in order to edit and proofread my transcripts, it would take me an excruciatingly long and tedious time to rely only on speech for this task. When contacted by potential blind court reporters, the first thing I ask them is if they are strong braille readers. I certainly don't want anyone to think that if their answer is no, that I discourage them from pursuing a career in court reporting, but I do tell them that spelling and punctuation are of the utmost importance in producing a legal transcript. So...I'm off my soapbox, but like I said, ditto...THANK YOU BRAILLE!!! -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:40 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: great iphone article For me, braille is very important tool for my education, am playing and teaching music, without Braille I will not be able to read any music notes. So, thanks Braille so much! Cheers: Ramy Moustafa Owner and producer of Harmony recording studios skype: roma30 Facebook: moustafa.r...@gmail.com Twitter: Ramymoustafa youtube chanael: www.youtube.com/ramymoustafasaber -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 9:40 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: Cristobal Subject: Re: great iphone article Interesting article. Thanks for posting it. I myself am pro braille. I think it should be taught and used to teach things like spelling, grammar, punctuation and so on. It also becomes another tool in a successful blind person's arsenal. IMHO, when giving a speech, I think braille notes are still far superior to any speech output device. On the other hand though, I don't think comparing a blind person's use of speech output or technology to an oral culture or times before the Gutenberg press were invented is accurate either. Using speech output, I have access to the written text and the written text available to most people in society today. Using note takers and speech output, ideas are not ephemeral. I can write them down and recall them at will. I would agree that before the use of computers and speech output, a blind person who didn't know braille could be called illiterate and could be compared to someone living in an oral culture. I don't think that's the case now. I also don't think it's an either or choice between braille and speech. They're both important tools that a successful blind person needs. On 03/05/12 14:10, Cristobal wrote: This is an article I read in the New York Times a couple of years ago about this topic. I went back and found it as it appears to be relevant to this whole theme. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/magazine/03Braille-t.html?_r=1pagewanted= print This is a link to the printable version which is less cluttered than the regular page. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of alex wallis Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:03 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: re: great iphone article Hi Raul, your message was quite interesting that you sent to the list, having said that, I must disagree with you about speech and audio meaning that people don't often capitalize sentences, or at least, I think maybe its a factor that makes people less likely to do it, but I think its also down to quality of education. I am not sure if you know this, but in the UK braille system, there is no official rule that says you must capitalize sentences and words using a dot six, or at least there wasn't when I was growing up. Having said that, I don't know if this is still correct as I believe when I finished education the powers that be were considering introducing this from the American braille code. Having said that, for most of my life up til the age of 12 I had little contact at all with computers, towards the end of primary school I did get the chance to use my first computer, a bbc micro and from then on my use of computers steadily increased to the point where braille is pretty much unused in my daily life. I am pretty good at capitalizing sentences, and words, though I must admit the spell check is very useful for this, and I do sometimes have to make a conscious effort when correcting messages before sending them to think about capitalizing certain words and sentences. But I always go through and check any e mail before sending it. What I think is a major factor in blind people being bad spellers is a combination of things, firstly the use of grade 2 Braille, I think that my learning this really
RE: great iphone article
When I listen to audio books in my studies, I always fall into sleeping :D Cheers: Ramy Moustafa Owner and producer of Harmony recording studios skype: roma30 Facebook: moustafa.r...@gmail.com Twitter: Ramymoustafa youtube chanael: www.youtube.com/ramymoustafasaber -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Carrie Snodgrass Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 1:58 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: great iphone article Ditto! I learned braille at a very young age and have since become an avid reader. I don't have the patience or comprehension level, as a result, to listen to audio books, files or anything else for any great length of time. As a court stenographer, I would think that in order to edit and proofread my transcripts, it would take me an excruciatingly long and tedious time to rely only on speech for this task. When contacted by potential blind court reporters, the first thing I ask them is if they are strong braille readers. I certainly don't want anyone to think that if their answer is no, that I discourage them from pursuing a career in court reporting, but I do tell them that spelling and punctuation are of the utmost importance in producing a legal transcript. So...I'm off my soapbox, but like I said, ditto...THANK YOU BRAILLE!!! -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramy Moustafa Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 5:40 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: great iphone article For me, braille is very important tool for my education, am playing and teaching music, without Braille I will not be able to read any music notes. So, thanks Braille so much! Cheers: Ramy Moustafa Owner and producer of Harmony recording studios skype: roma30 Facebook: moustafa.r...@gmail.com Twitter: Ramymoustafa youtube chanael: www.youtube.com/ramymoustafasaber -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 9:40 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Cc: Cristobal Subject: Re: great iphone article Interesting article. Thanks for posting it. I myself am pro braille. I think it should be taught and used to teach things like spelling, grammar, punctuation and so on. It also becomes another tool in a successful blind person's arsenal. IMHO, when giving a speech, I think braille notes are still far superior to any speech output device. On the other hand though, I don't think comparing a blind person's use of speech output or technology to an oral culture or times before the Gutenberg press were invented is accurate either. Using speech output, I have access to the written text and the written text available to most people in society today. Using note takers and speech output, ideas are not ephemeral. I can write them down and recall them at will. I would agree that before the use of computers and speech output, a blind person who didn't know braille could be called illiterate and could be compared to someone living in an oral culture. I don't think that's the case now. I also don't think it's an either or choice between braille and speech. They're both important tools that a successful blind person needs. On 03/05/12 14:10, Cristobal wrote: This is an article I read in the New York Times a couple of years ago about this topic. I went back and found it as it appears to be relevant to this whole theme. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/03/magazine/03Braille-t.html?_r=1pagewanted= print This is a link to the printable version which is less cluttered than the regular page. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of alex wallis Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:03 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: re: great iphone article Hi Raul, your message was quite interesting that you sent to the list, having said that, I must disagree with you about speech and audio meaning that people don't often capitalize sentences, or at least, I think maybe its a factor that makes people less likely to do it, but I think its also down to quality of education. I am not sure if you know this, but in the UK braille system, there is no official rule that says you must capitalize sentences and words using a dot six, or at least there wasn't when I was growing up. Having said that, I don't know if this is still correct as I believe when I finished education the powers that be were considering introducing this from the American braille code. Having said that, for most of my life up til the age of 12 I had little contact at all with computers, towards the end of primary school I did get the chance to use my first computer, a bbc micro and from then on my use of computers steadily increased to the point where braille is pretty much unused in my daily life. I am pretty good
Re: great iphone article
Hi, Somebody wrote: I also don't buy into the statements that devices which make things easier for us are also making us dumber. I said something similar to my husband after reading the article which was, on the whole, pretty good. But the assertion that screen readers and audiobooks are responsible for blind kids/adults not being able to spell is ludicrous. It's our lousy educational system that produces rotten spellers, not adaptive technology. I hear what you're saying, and I agree, but here's my take on things. With the advent of text-to-speech, there's been a decreased emphasis on Braille literacy in this country, to the point that only 10 percent of the blind population in America are Braille literate, and that to me is just obscene. When I was a kid, Braille education was compulsory, and school systems made damn sure that there were funding and resources in place to ensure that blind kids learned Braille just as sighted kids learned to read print. So while I applaud the advances in technology, I am a and always will be a staunch advocate for learning and using Braille. And, if I were running things, I would bring back the emphasis on Braille literacy, make it compulsory again, and take it a step further by adding government subsidies for research into low-cost electronic Braille technology. There's no reason why Braille technology couldn't be developed that is less expensive than what's out there today. $100 for a Braille cell is ridiculous. Okay, enough of muy ranting. No flames, please. Tom -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
great iphone article
How the Blind Are Reinventing the iPhone - The Atlantic http://bit.ly/IXC1Zd -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
