Re: [Vo]:INFN/Stmicro paper: Modification of Pd-H2 and Pd-D2 thin films processed by He-Ne laser...

[Jeff Berkowitz]

Thanks for posting the link. There has been work like this at Lecce for
many years. I've posted this link before.
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Castellanonucleartra.pdf

Jeff


On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Alain Sepeda wrote:

> Hi,
> On 22passi, Danielle Paserini publish a paper from 
> INFN/Lecce/StMicroabout
>  changes (transmutation, craters...) in thin films of PdD/PdH, with
> laser excitation...
>
>
> This paper was inside the JCMNS volume5 by JP Biberian, and you quoted it
> here too, but I don't remind (maybe I did not catch it)...
>
> What is your opinion on it...
> It remind me Iwamura.
>
>
>
> NB: I've posted my small summary/extract on 
> lenr-forum.com...
> Critics welcome about my position...
>
> Drew just found a 
> papercited
>  by 22passi where INFN/Uni Lecce and Dr Mastromatteo from ST
>> Microelectronics.
>> It was presented at 
>> Coherence2012
>> .
>>  It was also in the volume 5 of the journal of condensed matter nuclear
>> science (J-P Biberian) in 
>> 2011
>> .
>>
>> this paper is really interesting.
>> First it is using microelectronics-style technology, ion implant, thin
>> films... far from electrolysis or powder/film cooking. the Laser excitation
>> is interesting... It looks high-tech, but for specialist of
>> micro-electronics and nanotech it is more usual.
>>
>> In the paper the few results are explained as such
>>
>>> Different behaviors were revealed for samples kept in air, laser treated
>>> and no-laser treated: so, about the samples kept in air, the film surface
>>> was smooth, it looked like a mirror; instead, the samples treated and
>>> no-treated by laser showed morphological modifications of the Pd-film due
>>> to the gas absorption. The morphological modifications consisted in
>>> formation of spots with dimension of 1-50 μm after gas loading. Fig. 4
>>> shows an example of spots on the surface of a sample of palladium
>>> implanted with boron, loaded by D2 gas and not irradiated.
>>> By EDX analyser, we have investigated inside the spots and we have found
>>> the presence of new elements such as C, O, Ca, Fe, Al, S, Mg, K and Na. In
>>> Fig. 5 an example of EDX spectrum of a Pd sample with 76 days of treatment
>>> is reported. It is possible to observe the presence of many "new" elements
>>> which were inexistent before the treatment.
>>>
>>> In addition, by He-Ne laser action, we have found a larger number of
>>> spots and a larger number of new elements. Fig. 6 shows a SEM micrograph of
>>> a sample processed by H2 gas and laser; Fig. 7 shows EDX spectrum obtained
>>> from one spots of the sample: the new elements were: C, O, Ca, Fe, Al, S,
>>> Mg, K, Na, F, Cr, Mn, Fe, Co, Ni.
>>>
>>> The list of the new elements is reported for every experimental case of
>>> the sample
>>> treatment. We can observe that the combination between H2 gas loading
>>> and laser action on the treatment of the samples is very interesting in
>>> order to produce many transmutation elements; nevertheless the results with
>>> D2 gas loading are also not negligible about the production of new
>>> elements, but there are no evident differences between laser and no laser
>>> treated samples. The laser action is also very important to increase the
>>> spot density on the surface of the treated samples. All new elements were
>>> found inside the spots systematically but none of these seems to be
>>> generated from a particular nuclear reaction between B and D2 and H2. These
>>> experiments confirm the reproducibility of the transmutation phenomenon but
>>> we are still far to make clarifications about the mechanisms which happened
>>> inside the crystalline lattice of Pd samples.
>>>
>> .
>>  They clearly find melting of pdd, different behaviors, transmutation
>> toward lighter elements than Pd...
>>
>> I would compare those experiment with the ones of Iwamura.
>>
>> in the article on 
>> 22passi,
>> Danielle nicely remind the fact read from the paper:
>>
>>> The article in English (as pdf), at a glance, shows three facts which
>>> experimentally Mastromatteo considers indisputable:
>>>
>>>1. Pd immersed in the environment of H or D is the seat of energetic
>>>phenomena of nuclear origin, since the material in the form of thin film
>>>r

RE: [Vo]: [OT] New Data "Worrying" 2000 climatologists about Global Warming ....

[MarkI-ZeroPoint]

Note that I've added the [OT] (off-topic) flag to the Subject Line.

Please try to remember that when replying to any off-topic msg that was NOT
marked [OT], add the [OT] marker to the "Subject:" line.

 

Dave Roberson stated.

". where I live it is outright lying to not mention all of the facts if you
know of them."

 

I call it, lying by omission.

It's an integral part of politics and politicians... seriously.

And yes, it should be abhorrent to any scientist, but unfortunately, to many
it is not.

I pretty much assume that ALL politicians are there to feather their own
nest, and all else is secondary.

 

RE: AG and the carbon credits sham. that's old news, but I'll bet many here
were unaware of it.

 

-Mark

 

Re: [Vo]:New Data "Worrying" 2000 climatologists about Global Warming ....

[hellokevin]

Sounds reasonable enough.  What do you think of this article:
 http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100194166/man-made-global-warming-even-the-ipcc-admits-the-jig-is-up/
 
 
Man-made global warming: even the IPCC admits the jig is up 



By James DelingpoleEnvironmentLast updated: December 13th, 2012
3839 CommentsComment on this article


Could this mysterious glowing orb have something to do with climate change? 
Surely not!
Breaking news from the US – h/t Watts Up With That? – where a leaked draft of 
the IPCC's latest report AR5 admits what some of us have suspected for a very 
long time: that the case for man-made global warming is looking weaker by the 
day and that the sun plays a much more significant role in "climate change" 
than the scientific "consensus" has previously been prepared to concede.
Here's the killer admission:

Many empirical relationships have been reported between GCR or cosmogenic 
isotope archives and some aspects of the climate system (e.g., Bond et al., 
2001; Dengel et al., 2009; Ram and Stolz, 1999). The forcing from changes in 
total solar irradiance alone does not seem to account for these observations, 
implying the existence of an amplifying mechanism such as the hypothesized 
GCR-cloud link. We focus here on observed relationships between GCR and aerosol 
and cloud properties.
As the leaker explains, this is a game-changer:

The admission of strong evidence for enhanced solar forcing changes everything. 
The climate alarmists can’t continue to claim that warming was almost entirely 
due to human activity over a period when solar warming effects, now 
acknowledged to be important, were at a maximum. The final draft of AR5 WG1 is 
not scheduled to be released for another year but the public needs to know now 
how the main premises and conclusions of the IPCC story line have been undercut 
by the IPCC itself.

--- On Mon, 12/17/12, Jojo Jaro  wrote:


From: Jojo Jaro 
Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Data "Worrying" 2000 climatologists about Global Warming 

To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Date: Monday, December 17, 2012, 4:33 PM


Harry,

I will be honest with my limitations.  I neither have the knowledge or the 
requisite background to make sense of raw data, as I am not a climatologists.  
Neither are you, unless you can correct me.  In fact, I don't believe there are 
any climatologists in this list.

But like I said.  If people would do the suggestion I've outlined, it will go a 
long ways in minimizing controversy and "settle" the science.

First, Don't fudge the data.  (At least, don't get caught fudging the data. 
LOL...)
Second,  Open up the discussion.  Don't stifle research into contrary views by 
unilaterally declaring it "settled science".  This is the best way to bomb your 
credibility.  By refusing to discuss as if you have the last word on the 
subject.  That is what Bob Parks, et al,  do with cold fusion, and don't you 
think it is "so" annoying.
Third, Open up the raw data to other experts.  Open up your models.  Discuss 
your data gathering techniques.  Don't hide these things and only put out your 
"conclusions", which is just your opinion.


What is wrong with what I am asking.  You will convince me and people like me 
if people would simply implement these suggestions.  The more you hide behind 
your "settled science" position, the more people like me become more 
recalcitrant and stubborn.  People instinctly know you are trying to pull a 
wool over their eyes; and this AGW propaganda smells of that.


Jojo

 

Re: [Vo]:So what has been discovered is not a new source of energy....

[Harry Veeder]

Sorry, I don't.
harry

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 6:30 PM, David Roberson  wrote:
> This information may have originated from my simulation model of Rossi's
> device.  I have written about it on several posts in the past, but I do not
> recall that he supports the idea.  It would be interesting if you know of a
> reference from Rossi where he acknowledges that these two critical
> temperatures exist.
>
> Dave
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Harry Veeder 
> To: vortex-l 
> Sent: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 6:21 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:So what has been discovered is not a new source of
> energy
>
> On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
>> Harry Veeder  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I maybe be wrong but I think you told us his original plan was to first
>>> raise the temperature of the cell. That would have been consistent with
>>> how
>>> the E-cat operates,
>>> which supposedly begins to produce heat at a certain temperature but
>>> doesn't become (temporarily) self-sustaining until a higher temperature
>>> is
>>> reached.
>>
>>
>> I do not recall hearing that from Celani. You are saying that Rossi
>> reports
>> two different critical temperatures? One at which the reaction begins, and
>> another, higher temperature at which it self-sustains? If that is how it
>> works, that's interesting.
>
> I thought the data in the Essen/Kullander report suggested that is how
> the E-Cat performs .
> Maybe I am recalling incorrectly.
>
>
> Harry
>

Re: [Vo]:STMicroelectronics report on their version of the Celani apparatus

[Harry Veeder]

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Harry Veeder  wrote:
>
>>
>> Does this mean they did not detect any anomalous gamma or neutrons
>> emissions?
>> If so then it is more evidence that the Celani doesn't produce excess
>> heat.
>
>
> Incorrect. Most cold fusion devices that produce excess heat do not produce
> measurable gamma or neutron emissions. Cold fusion is not plasma fusion. If
> it were, I would be dead.
>


I meant that if the excess heat is real and whatever the cause of the
excess heat, the excess heat  might force a limited number of
transmutations  and emit a small amount of gammas and neutrons.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:STMicroelectronics report on their version of the Celani apparatus

[ChemE Stewart]

I agree.  My take on it is the sun as well as the gas giants (and other
planets) all produce the protons due to beta decay at the surface of their
dark matter nucleus.  The sun's nucleus is much more massive than the
planets and thus the larger entropic gravitational
flux/radiation triggering RPF in its gas cloud and bathing us in sunlight.

Stewart
Darkmattersalot.com

On Wednesday, December 19, 2012, Jones Beene wrote:

> -Original Message-
> From: mix...@bigpond.com 
> In reply to  Harry Veeder's message:
>
> >"Neutron and gamma continuous recording in ST
> >lab. No difference for spectra during experiments
> >showing extra heat and background"
>
> >Does this mean they did not detect any anomalous gamma or neutrons
> emissions?
> >If so then it is more evidence that the Celani doesn't produce excess
> heat.
>
> RvS: > It's still possible that any putative excess heat is either non
> nuclear, or a
> form of nuclear that doesn't produce gammas and doesn't rely on neutrons.
>
>
> Or ... both, depending on semantics. In fact, the vast majority of nuclear
> reactions in stars do not produce gammas or neutrons.
>
> 99.+ % of all stellar nuclear reactions consist of only a single
> reversible reaction. It can be called reversible proton fusion (RPF), and
> has been generally ignored by science. Due to the short lifetime of the new
> nucleus, it is confusing to use the word "fusion" at all. Two protons
> temporarily bind to helium-2 (aka the diproton) and then, after a tiny
> delay, the reaction reverses. Only rarely does anything else happen.
>
> The Pauli exclusion principle tells us that two identical fermions -
> particles with half-integer spin like protons - have a combined wave
> function that is anti-symmetric with respect to exchange of the particles
> and cannot really fuse (with one extremely rare exception - which is why
> the
> sun can eventually produce heat in a very slow burn).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton%E2%80%93proton_chain_reaction
>
> "In the Sun, deuterium-producing events are rare (diprotons, the much more
> common result of nuclear reactions within the star, immediately decay back
> into two protons)"
>
> In short, almost all stellar fusion in reversible and it is likely that
> this
> proton reaction happens in condensed matter as well. RPF always produces
> quantum color change in quarks, due to same wave function incompatibility -
> which can be exothermic or endothermic. It is possible that some solar heat
> derives from this mechanism.
>
> RPF apparently occurs in Casimir cavities or within a metal matrix in an
> earthly environment, and it seems from all of these Ni-H experiments going
> back to 1991, that the process can be engineered to be exothermic with no
> gammas.
>
> This is a strong working hypothesis for Ni-H energy gain. It involves
> excess
> heat, no gammas and no neutrons. Average proton mass is depleted. Color
> change is coupled to the matrix via magnons.
>
> Jones
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Swedish TV (SVT) show on Rossi Ecat

[James Bowery]

Perhaps what is so difficult for the Vortex "lame brains" is not
deciphering the "Mole" comment, but figuring out why "Lucky Saint" has not
provided a video of this LENR disk boiling water.

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 4:28 PM, lenr4po...@gmail.com
wrote:

> My informants indicate minutes 7-8 of (SVT) illustrate incorporation of
> "Saint"
> disks (Square or round - Not critical) into Hot-Cat. Now what is so
> difficult
> for the Vortex lame brains to decipher in the "Mole" comment?
>
> Even Jojo's Worms at his Worm Farm know all about it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fart
>
> Eric Walker  q=from:%22Eric+Walker%22>
> Tue, 18 Dec 2012 18:21:24 -0800  search?l=vortex-l@eskimo.com&**q=date:20121218
> >
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 9:34 AM, James Bowery  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 9:33 AM, 
> mole4l...@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
>
>>
>>>   *Lucky Saint  · 37 weeks ago
>>> No. Take 2 copper disks size of a penny. Put a dent in one. Mix
>>>  ultrafine
>>>  magnesium hydride soft iron powder and nickel powder in equalportions.
>>>  Make
>>>  sure ALL ball milling, preparation and procedures arestrictly inert
>>>  atmosphere
>>>  and dry box manipulations. Compress a portionof the mix to a small pill
>>>  which
>>>  fits easily into the disk indentation.Seal the chamber, welding with
>>>  jeweler's
>>>  tools. Place reactor in asmall beaker with water. Place on top of
>>>  induction
>>>  coil heating unit.Cause the water to boil from heat induced by
>>> alternating
>>>  magneticfield. Once boiling, turn off the induction heater. Keep adding
>>>  wateras
>>>  the boiling will continue by itself for ? years. Mine is stillboiling
>>>  after
>>>  over 5 yeaes.*
>>>
>>>
>>  These instructions are reasonably specific.  Has anyone tried replicating
>>  this?  Is there any reason to believe "Lucky Saint" isn't just pulling
>> our
>>  leg?
>>
>>
> If I wanted to make a free-energy urban legend, I would make it sound a
> little like this.
>
> Eric
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:So what has been discovered is not a new source of energy....

[David Roberson]

This information may have originated from my simulation model of Rossi's 
device.  I have written about it on several posts in the past, but I do not 
recall that he supports the idea.  It would be interesting if you know of a 
reference from Rossi where he acknowledges that these two critical temperatures 
exist.


Dave



-Original Message-
From: Harry Veeder 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Wed, Dec 19, 2012 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:So what has been discovered is not a new source of energy


On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Harry Veeder  wrote:
>
>>
>> I maybe be wrong but I think you told us his original plan was to first
>> raise the temperature of the cell. That would have been consistent with how
>> the E-cat operates,
>> which supposedly begins to produce heat at a certain temperature but
>> doesn't become (temporarily) self-sustaining until a higher temperature is
>> reached.
>
>
> I do not recall hearing that from Celani. You are saying that Rossi reports
> two different critical temperatures? One at which the reaction begins, and
> another, higher temperature at which it self-sustains? If that is how it
> works, that's interesting.

I thought the data in the Essen/Kullander report suggested that is how
the E-Cat performs .
Maybe I am recalling incorrectly.


Harry


 

Re: [Vo]:So what has been discovered is not a new source of energy....

[Harry Veeder]

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Harry Veeder  wrote:
>
>>
>> I maybe be wrong but I think you told us his original plan was to first
>> raise the temperature of the cell. That would have been consistent with how
>> the E-cat operates,
>> which supposedly begins to produce heat at a certain temperature but
>> doesn't become (temporarily) self-sustaining until a higher temperature is
>> reached.
>
>
> I do not recall hearing that from Celani. You are saying that Rossi reports
> two different critical temperatures? One at which the reaction begins, and
> another, higher temperature at which it self-sustains? If that is how it
> works, that's interesting.

I thought the data in the Essen/Kullander report suggested that is how
the E-Cat performs .
Maybe I am recalling incorrectly.


Harry

Re: [Vo]:No harm with Off-Topic Posts???

[Jojo Jaro]

Good call Terry.

But it is sad, that it has become necessary to post this in Vortex-L.


Jojo




- Original Message - 
From: "Terry Blanton" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:No harm with Off-Topic Posts???



This post should be labeled [OT] or posted in Vortex-B-l.

[Vo]:some reviews on my books coming out

[fznidarsic]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread904811/pg1


I know not everyone agrees with me.  I do have a peer reviewed paper in the 
pipeline, however  I am now 60 years old and don't have forever for the Journal 
Editors to agree with me.  My book gets the word out quickly   Amazon is doing 
a good job.  It would cost more that $10 to photo copy and bind this material.  
I sorry that I can't please everyone.


Frank Znidarsic

RE: [Vo]:STMicroelectronics report on their version of the Celani apparatus

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com 
In reply to  Harry Veeder's message:

>"Neutron and gamma continuous recording in ST
>lab. No difference for spectra during experiments
>showing extra heat and background"

>Does this mean they did not detect any anomalous gamma or neutrons
emissions?
>If so then it is more evidence that the Celani doesn't produce excess heat.

RvS: > It's still possible that any putative excess heat is either non
nuclear, or a
form of nuclear that doesn't produce gammas and doesn't rely on neutrons.


Or ... both, depending on semantics. In fact, the vast majority of nuclear
reactions in stars do not produce gammas or neutrons. 

99.+ % of all stellar nuclear reactions consist of only a single
reversible reaction. It can be called reversible proton fusion (RPF), and
has been generally ignored by science. Due to the short lifetime of the new
nucleus, it is confusing to use the word "fusion" at all. Two protons
temporarily bind to helium-2 (aka the diproton) and then, after a tiny
delay, the reaction reverses. Only rarely does anything else happen.

The Pauli exclusion principle tells us that two identical fermions -
particles with half-integer spin like protons - have a combined wave
function that is anti-symmetric with respect to exchange of the particles
and cannot really fuse (with one extremely rare exception - which is why the
sun can eventually produce heat in a very slow burn).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton%E2%80%93proton_chain_reaction

"In the Sun, deuterium-producing events are rare (diprotons, the much more
common result of nuclear reactions within the star, immediately decay back
into two protons)"

In short, almost all stellar fusion in reversible and it is likely that this
proton reaction happens in condensed matter as well. RPF always produces
quantum color change in quarks, due to same wave function incompatibility -
which can be exothermic or endothermic. It is possible that some solar heat
derives from this mechanism.

RPF apparently occurs in Casimir cavities or within a metal matrix in an
earthly environment, and it seems from all of these Ni-H experiments going
back to 1991, that the process can be engineered to be exothermic with no
gammas. 

This is a strong working hypothesis for Ni-H energy gain. It involves excess
heat, no gammas and no neutrons. Average proton mass is depleted. Color
change is coupled to the matrix via magnons.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:No harm with Off-Topic Posts???

[Terry Blanton]

This post should be labeled [OT] or posted in Vortex-B-l.

Re: [Vo]:Impressions of a Silent Planet

[Terry Blanton]

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Ruby  wrote:

> HEY, how did you like your calendar?

Loved it!  I was impressed that you put Gene as the January picture.
He was a great man!

You do good work, Ruby.

Re: [Vo]:Impressions of a Silent Planet

[Ruby]

The Apollo 8 image of Earth has oft been cited as a turning point in our 
awareness of the global village we share.  That's why I chose to use 
that photo on the cover of the History of Cold Fusion Calendar, because 
it anticipates the paradigm-shifting technology that we hope will alter 
our human direction towards a larger perspective.


During the Apollo missions, we were looking at an image of ourselves, 
remotely making an image of ourselves.


Local spacetime disappeared hasn't been the same since.

HEY, how did you like your calendar?




On 12/19/12 7:46 AM, Terry Blanton wrote:

With apologies to CS Lewis, just in case b'ak'tun 13 is not all that
ends, let us pay homage to the Blue Marble and the humbling
experiences of all those who have seen it from space:

http://vimeo.com/55073825






--
Ruby Carat
r...@coldfusionnow.org 
United States 1-707-616-4894
Skype ruby-carat
www.coldfusionnow.org 

[Vo]:No harm with Off-Topic Posts???

[Jojo Jaro]

Certain individuals in this forum; most notably the most persistent violators, 
the most chronic posters of off-topic posts; arrogantly claim that there is "no 
harm" in off-topic posts.

Nothing could be more selfish and more delusional.  Of Course, there is harm 
and we are seeing it.

Vortex-L used to be a premier place for the advancement of our knowledge in 
Cold Fusion bleeding edge ideas.  Lately, the gang of violators and bullies and 
self-proclaimed experts have hijacked this forum with their "gabbing with 
friends" and "making up the rules as we go".  They posts irrelevant topics left 
and right with impunity as they think this place is a social club they can use 
anyway they please.

Even before I joined, certain distinguished individuals have already expressed 
the need to keep off-topic posts to Vortex-B.  I am not the first nor the only 
one to complain about this problem.   Why don't these chronic violators go to 
Vortex-B and gab with friends there.  Why hijack and destroy this fine premier 
site with their useless noise and bandwidth.  What level of arrogance and 
selfishness is that?  They have a perfectly funtional site in Vortex-B for 
their social club.  Why inundate Vortex-L with nonesensical gabbing. Now, we 
have clearly seen the result of this incessant off-topic posts.  These 
distinguished individuals I am talking about no longer posts here or have 
significantly lowered their participation.  I would have wanted to hear many of 
their bleeding edge ideas more.  Vortex-L has suffered a lost of great men with 
great ideas because of the selfishness of a few immature individuals.  They 
gather like jackals and only feel stong in a group like bullies.

Some claim that I am the one "trolling" here.  But they conveniently ignore 
that I have said and have said it for a year now, that I will stop posting 
off-topic posts if these people would moderate their incessant useless gabbing. 
 But, like little immature children, they want what they want and increase 
their violation every time I call for moderation.  I only do what I do (posting 
off-topic posts) to highlight the problem.  Not only are off-topic posts 
harmful to the usefulness of Vortex-L; they also engender great conflict and 
fights.  I sincerely do not want Vortex-L to devolve into a social club for 
gabbing or for fighting.  Bill has created Vortex-B for that.  Why don't these 
violators go there to gab?

I have already said; I WILL STOP WHEN IT STOPS.

My friends, whether or not you like my views, you must agree that incessant 
off-topic posts are harmful to Vortex-L.  I believe Bill recognized that when 
he created Vortex-B.  Why can't these babies recognize the problem their 
spoiled attitudes are creating.

My friends, whether or not you like my views, I promise you in the sight of God 
that I do not have any agenda here.  Neither Political, Social, Religious nor 
Personal.  All I want is for Vortex-L to retrun to its prior glory and 
usefulness.  What's wrong with this plea, that certain individual would find it 
necessary to insult me everytime I make this plea.





BTW, Jed has his own site.  Why doesn't he create a forum there to "gab with 
friends".  People already go there to download his files, so it would be an 
easy matter for people interested in Cold Fusion to join his forum.  Let him 
create his forum and turn it into a social club.  Why does he and his minions 
insists on destroying Vortex-L.




Jojo



PS.  Admitedly, some off-topic posts are borderline non-off-topic.  I am not 
talking about those. 

My friends, I will continue to highlight this problem until these chronic 
violators recognize the severe consequence of their childish pranks.

Re: [Vo]:So what has been discovered is not a new source of energy....

[Jed Rothwell]

Harry Veeder  wrote:


> I maybe be wrong but I think you told us his original plan was to first
> raise the temperature of the cell. That would have been consistent with how
> the E-cat operates,
> which supposedly begins to produce heat at a certain temperature
> but doesn't become (temporarily) self-sustaining until a higher temperature
> is reached.
>

I do not recall hearing that from Celani. You are saying that Rossi reports
two different critical temperatures? One at which the reaction begins, and
another, higher temperature at which it self-sustains? If that is how it
works, that's interesting.

At ICCF17 Celani said he would insulate the cell so that input power could
be reduced after the reaction turns on, gradually reducing it to zero. In
principle that should work. In practice it might be difficult or even
dangerous, since you cannot easily balance input and output, and it might
overheat or go out of control. Anyway, I have heard that he tried this. He
was able to reduce input considerably. But not all the way down to zero.

That does not prove the effect is an artifact, but it is not good news.
Conversely, if he *had* been able to do that, it *would* prove the effect
is real.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:STMicroelectronics report on their version of the Celani apparatus

[Jed Rothwell]

Harry Veeder  wrote:


> Does this mean they did not detect any anomalous gamma or neutrons
> emissions?
> If so then it is more evidence that the Celani doesn't produce excess heat.
>

Incorrect. Most cold fusion devices that produce excess heat do not produce
measurable gamma or neutron emissions. Cold fusion is not plasma fusion. If
it were, I would be dead.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:STMicroelectronics report on their version of the Celani apparatus

[Arnaud Kodeck]

In the report, STM doesn't say where the neutron and gamma are measured. If
neutron and/or gamma have low energy, they might be absorbed by the vessel
before reaching the detector. Outside the reactor is not the best place for
the detector.

Regarding the input power versus temperature, it's clear that the reactor
has small size. It would be difficult to include also the detector inside
the reactor as well. But without pictures or drawings, this is just thoughts
and assumptions.

Arnaud
> -Original Message-
> From: mix...@bigpond.com [mailto:mix...@bigpond.com]
> Sent: mercredi 19 décembre 2012 22:34
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:STMicroelectronics report on their version of the Celani
> apparatus
> 
> In reply to  Harry Veeder's message of Wed, 19 Dec 2012 15:43:39 -0500:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >STMicroelectronics report on their version of the Celani apparatus:
> >
> >http://www.22passi.it/coherence2012/coherence%2014%20dicembre%202012%20Ce
> lani%20wire.pdf
> >
> >On page 2  it says over a couple of charts:
> >"Neutron and gamma continuous recording in ST
> >lab. No difference for spectra during experiments
> >showing extra heat and background"
> >
> >Does this mean they did not detect any anomalous gamma or neutrons
> emissions?
> >If so then it is more evidence that the Celani doesn't produce excess
> heat.
> >
> >Harry
> 
> It's still possible that any putative excess heat is either non nuclear,
> or a
> form of nuclear that doesn't produce gammas and doesn't rely on neutrons.
> (e.g. Takahashi).
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robin van Spaandonk
> 
> http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:STMicroelectronics report on their version of the Celani apparatus

[mixent]

In reply to  Harry Veeder's message of Wed, 19 Dec 2012 15:43:39 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
>STMicroelectronics report on their version of the Celani apparatus:
>
>http://www.22passi.it/coherence2012/coherence%2014%20dicembre%202012%20Celani%20wire.pdf
>
>On page 2  it says over a couple of charts:
>"Neutron and gamma continuous recording in ST
>lab. No difference for spectra during experiments
>showing extra heat and background"
>
>Does this mean they did not detect any anomalous gamma or neutrons emissions?
>If so then it is more evidence that the Celani doesn't produce excess heat.
>
>Harry

It's still possible that any putative excess heat is either non nuclear, or a
form of nuclear that doesn't produce gammas and doesn't rely on neutrons.
(e.g. Takahashi).

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html

Re: [Vo]:Hell yes I actually believe there are problems we can't solve...

[Jed Rothwell]

I wrote:


> If the human race survives for a million years into the future, who is to
> say we will not be capable of harnessing the sun, mining Jupiter, or
> transmuting hydrogen into any element we want?
>

I gather Jupiter is mostly hydrogen. Assuming wilderness preservation
societies have no objection, and there is no life on Jupiter, we might mine
the hydrogen, convert it to iron and other elements common here on earth,
and construct 317 planets the size of earth. I am not sure where we would
put them, but it would be fun.

Plan B would be to construct giant revolving space-based habitats with
earth-like gravity and conditions. With 10E27 kg of material you could make
quite a few of them. Probably enough to give every person thousands of
square kilometers of living space, with dozens of palaces. We could all
live like the Seigel family in the movie "The Queen of Versailles." I
personally could not stand that for more than a few days . . . But anyone
who wanted to, could.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:So what has been discovered is not a new source of energy....

[Harry Veeder]

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> Teslaalset  wrote:
>
>> Celani was not able to allow long sustanable mode because this requires a
>> higher temperature, which is possible but not for a long period of time in
>> such transparant tube.
>
>
> No, that is not an issue. He wrapped the cell in insulation. This allowed
> him to lower the input power a great deal while maintaining the activation
> temperature. But he was not able to lower input to zero. He hoped to do that
> to eliminate all doubts about the calorimetry.
>
> His plan was to trigger the effect with a heater and then gradually back off
> all heater power. I do not know why this did not work. I did not discuss it
> with him. I heard that it did not work. If the effect is an artifact, that
> would be a reason for it not to work.


I maybe be wrong but I think you told us his original plan was to
first raise the temperature of the cell. That would have been
consistent with how the E-cat operates,
which supposedly begins to produce heat at a certain temperature but
doesn't become (temporarily) self-sustaining until a higher
temperature is reached.

Harry

[Vo]:STMicroelectronics report on their version of the Celani apparatus

[Harry Veeder]

STMicroelectronics report on their version of the Celani apparatus:

http://www.22passi.it/coherence2012/coherence%2014%20dicembre%202012%20Celani%20wire.pdf

On page 2  it says over a couple of charts:
"Neutron and gamma continuous recording in ST
lab. No difference for spectra during experiments
showing extra heat and background"

Does this mean they did not detect any anomalous gamma or neutrons emissions?
If so then it is more evidence that the Celani doesn't produce excess heat.

Harry

Re: [Vo]:Hell yes I actually believe there are problems we can't solve...

[Jed Rothwell]

David L Babcock  wrote:

Now the oil is no longer cheap and the whole structure built on it will
> subside or even collapse, later or sooner.
>

Not with cold fusion, obviously. That will accelerate the trend. People two
centuries from now may be far wealthier than we are, just as we control
unimaginably more energy, material goods and information than people did in
1800. There are no technical limitations that would prevent this. Only
politics, stupidity and greed.

As Henry Adams wrote in 1905:

". . . For this new creation, born since 1900, a historian asked no longer
to be teacher or even friend; he asked only to be a pupil, and promised to
be docile, for once, even though trodden under foot; for he could see that
the new American -- the child of incalculable coal-power, chemical power,
electric power, and radiating energy, as well as of new forces yet
undetermined -- must be a sort of God compared with any former creation of
nature. At the rate of progress since 1800, every American who lived into
the year 2000 would know how to control unlimited power. He would think in
complexities unimaginable to an earlier mind. He would deal with problems
altogether beyond the range of earlier society. To him the nineteenth
century would stand on the same plane with the fourth -- equally childlike
-- and he would only wonder how both of them, knowing so little, and so
weak in force, should have done so much. . . ."

"The Education of Henry Adams"



> Cold Fusion -I think it's real- will slow this down, probably reverse the
> decline for awhile . . .
>

Why do you say "awhile"? Assuming it uses deuterium cold fusion will last
longer than the sun. If it uses hydrogen, far longer. Once you have
unlimited energy you can get any material goods and any elements you want
in unlimited quantities, by recycling or by exploiting new sources in the
solar system. Even if we are stuck on earth for the next few hundred years
there is plenty of raw material in our landfills. Recycling with high
energy techniques can recover anything.

Once we escape from earth we can give every person a hundred times more
material wealth than we now have, or a thousand times, or a million times.
The limits are a matter of taste: we stop when ostentatious become
boring. We might eventually capture all of the energy the sun produces.
With a population of 6 billion that would give every individual roughly
4,000 times more energy than the entire human race now consumes. If the
human race survives for a million years into the future, who is to say we
will not be capable of harnessing the sun, mining Jupiter, or transmuting
hydrogen into any element we want?


. . . but the mindset  that we learned on the way up (that all we find is
> ours to exploit, without limit) will drive us back all the way down.
> Because a *lot* of things are running out, not just oil.  This is a
> dilemma.  The only possible answers involve changing human nature.  Don't
> hold your breath.
>

Human nature is highly malleable. There have been vastly different human
cultures. Some cultures have changed practically overnight in response to
outside influence or stress. The most striking example is Japan in 1868 and
1945. The limits of human nature are not known, but in any case, I am
confident that our nature can adjust to any opportunity technology provides
us.



> Most of the radical new discoveries of the Industrial Revolution were the
> results of cheap energy, made possible by cheap energy, and they indeed
> came along "every few years", easy pickings. This does not argue for the
> existence of an inevitable stream of discoveries (guaranteed by some
> benevolent God?) that will continue the great upward march forever.
>

There is no guarantee of that! As Martin said: "“People do not want
progress. It makes them uncomfortable. They don’t want it, and they shan’t
have it.” He could be right. People can make things worse. Civilizations
often degenerate.

Arthur Clarke got it right in "Profiles" (1963):

". . . For terrestrial projects, it does not greatly matter whether or not
the universe contains unknown and un­tapped energy sources. The heavy
hydrogen in the seas can drive all our machines, heat all our cities, for
as far ahead as we can imagine. If, as is perfectly possible, we are short
of energy two generations from now, it will be through our own
incompetence. We will be like Stone age men freezing to death on top of a
coal bed.


. . . This survey should be enough to indicate -- though not to prove --
that there need never be any permanent shortage of raw materials. Yet Sir
George Darwin's prediction that ours would be a golden age compared with
the aeons of poverty to follow, may well be perfectly correct. In this
inconceivably enormous universe, we can never run out of energy or matter.
But we can all too easily run out of brains."

- Jed

[Vo]:Impressions of a Silent Planet

[Terry Blanton]

With apologies to CS Lewis, just in case b'ak'tun 13 is not all that
ends, let us pay homage to the Blue Marble and the humbling
experiences of all those who have seen it from space:

http://vimeo.com/55073825

[Vo]:INFN/Stmicro paper: Modification of Pd-H2 and Pd-D2 thin films processed by He-Ne laser...

[Alain Sepeda]

Hi,
On 22passi, Danielle Paserini publish a paper from
INFN/Lecce/StMicroabout
changes (transmutation, craters...) in thin films of PdD/PdH, with
laser excitation...


This paper was inside the JCMNS volume5 by JP Biberian, and you quoted it
here too, but I don't remind (maybe I did not catch it)...

What is your opinion on it...
It remind me Iwamura.



NB: I've posted my small summary/extract on
lenr-forum.com...
Critics welcome about my position...

Drew just found a
papercited
by 22passi where INFN/Uni Lecce and Dr Mastromatteo from ST
> Microelectronics.
> It was presented at 
> Coherence2012
> .
>  It was also in the volume 5 of the journal of condensed matter nuclear
> science (J-P Biberian) in 
> 2011
> .
>
> this paper is really interesting.
> First it is using microelectronics-style technology, ion implant, thin
> films... far from electrolysis or powder/film cooking. the Laser excitation
> is interesting... It looks high-tech, but for specialist of
> micro-electronics and nanotech it is more usual.
>
> In the paper the few results are explained as such
>
>> Different behaviors were revealed for samples kept in air, laser treated
>> and no-laser treated: so, about the samples kept in air, the film surface
>> was smooth, it looked like a mirror; instead, the samples treated and
>> no-treated by laser showed morphological modifications of the Pd-film due
>> to the gas absorption. The morphological modifications consisted in
>> formation of spots with dimension of 1-50 μm after gas loading. Fig. 4
>> shows an example of spots on the surface of a sample of palladium
>> implanted with boron, loaded by D2 gas and not irradiated.
>> By EDX analyser, we have investigated inside the spots and we have found
>> the presence of new elements such as C, O, Ca, Fe, Al, S, Mg, K and Na. In
>> Fig. 5 an example of EDX spectrum of a Pd sample with 76 days of treatment
>> is reported. It is possible to observe the presence of many "new" elements
>> which were inexistent before the treatment.
>>
>> In addition, by He-Ne laser action, we have found a larger number of
>> spots and a larger number of new elements. Fig. 6 shows a SEM micrograph of
>> a sample processed by H2 gas and laser; Fig. 7 shows EDX spectrum obtained
>> from one spots of the sample: the new elements were: C, O, Ca, Fe, Al, S,
>> Mg, K, Na, F, Cr, Mn, Fe, Co, Ni.
>>
>> The list of the new elements is reported for every experimental case of
>> the sample
>> treatment. We can observe that the combination between H2 gas loading and
>> laser action on the treatment of the samples is very interesting in order
>> to produce many transmutation elements; nevertheless the results with D2
>> gas loading are also not negligible about the production of new elements,
>> but there are no evident differences between laser and no laser treated
>> samples. The laser action is also very important to increase the spot
>> density on the surface of the treated samples. All new elements were found
>> inside the spots systematically but none of these seems to be generated
>> from a particular nuclear reaction between B and D2 and H2. These
>> experiments confirm the reproducibility of the transmutation phenomenon but
>> we are still far to make clarifications about the mechanisms which happened
>> inside the crystalline lattice of Pd samples.
>>
> .
>  They clearly find melting of pdd, different behaviors, transmutation
> toward lighter elements than Pd...
>
> I would compare those experiment with the ones of Iwamura.
>
> in the article on 
> 22passi,
> Danielle nicely remind the fact read from the paper:
>
>> The article in English (as pdf), at a glance, shows three facts which
>> experimentally Mastromatteo considers indisputable:
>>
>>1. Pd immersed in the environment of H or D is the seat of energetic
>>phenomena of nuclear origin, since the material in the form of thin film
>>reaches the melting temperature, as can be seen from the pictures in the
>>electron microscope (type reactions chemical would not be able to bring 
>> the
>>material to fusion in areas so small);
>>2. the products of the reaction are all with mass number lower than
>>that of Pd, therefore, the process of nuclear fission suggest

Re: [Vo]:Hell yes I actually believe there are problems we can't solve...

[Jed Rothwell]

David L Babcock  wrote:


> Re many things running out,  I agree that we are starting to learn how to
> work around looming shortages in various critical materials, but many of
> these are going to prove hopelessly expensive to implement.  I offer
> phosphorus as an example: where do you find a replacement for that, feeding
> 7 billion people, when the mines run out?
>

Well, the stuff does not vanish. Mass is conserved. It is not blown in
small particles into the landscape the way some Pd in catalytic converters
is. So let's see . . .

Most is used for fertilizer to grow plants. In the U.S. most plants are fed
to livestock, and the rest is eaten by people. So the P ends up in . . .
pee, and manure and sewage. So that's where you will find it. With cheap,
limitless energy we can easily recycle it.

There isn't much in seawater: 0.1 ppm, but I expect we will be purifying
vast amount of seawater so maybe we can get some from that.

In the future I expect meat production will be done in vitro. This will use
far less P. It will eliminate most pollution from manure run-off. It will
eliminate the need for a large fraction of agricultural land. Breakthroughs
such as this can greatly reduce our need for resources.

In the long term, I expect we will build space elevators and begin
exploiting asteroids and other off-planet sources of raw materials. I hope
we also transfer most heavy industry to geosynchronous industrial complexes
at the terminals of space elevators. There is plenty of space in space. Way
more than on earth.

For details, see Clarke, "Profiles of the Future."

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:So what has been discovered is not a new source of energy....

[Harry Veeder]

Yes, the Cerron paper was mentioned on MFMP site. That is what prompted my post.

Harry

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Jeff Berkowitz  wrote:
> For what it's worth, Harry, there is a bit of early history that played out
> in a way similar to what you're describing.
>
> Back in 1994, Focardi, Habel and Piantelli published this:
>
> http://newenergytimes.com/v2/library/1994/1994Focardi-AnomalousHeatNi-H-NuovoCimento.pdf
>
> After which some folks at CERN published this:
>
> http://newenergytimes.com/v2/library/1996/1996Cerron-InvestigationOfAnomalous.pdf
>
> YMMV.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Harry Veeder  wrote:
>>
>> ... Instead Celani, Piantelli, Forcardi discovered that when nickel
>> aborbs hygrodgen the thermal charactersitics of nickel change (by
>> making it less reflective)?
>> And Celani has discovered that this change is correlated with a drop
>> in the electrical resistance of the nickle.
>>
>> Is that it?
>>
>> harry
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Giant potato just misses Earth

[Harry Veeder]

or potato chips
mmm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnPGDWD_oLE

harry

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 11:30 AM, ChemE Stewart  wrote:
> Good thing else mashed potato
>
> On Monday, December 17, 2012, Jones Beene wrote:
>>
>> Giant potato barely misses Earth...
>>
>>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/17/chinese_probe_visits_asteroid_toutat
>> is/
>>
>> The Maya miscalculated its orbit 500 years ago - they thought it would hit
>> us on Friday.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vo]:Swedish TV (SVT) show on Rossi Ecat

[lenr4po...@gmail.com]

My informants indicate minutes 7-8 of (SVT) illustrate incorporation of 
"Saint"
disks (Square or round - Not critical) into Hot-Cat. Now what is so 
difficult

for the Vortex lame brains to decipher in the "Mole" comment?

Even Jojo's Worms at his Worm Farm know all about it.

Cheers,

Fart

Eric Walker 
 
Tue, 18 Dec 2012 18:21:24 -0800 



On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 9:34 AM, James Bowery  wrote:

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 9:33 AM, mole4l...@gmail.comwrote:




  *Lucky Saint  · 37 weeks ago
No. Take 2 copper disks size of a penny. Put a dent in one. Mix
 ultrafine
 magnesium hydride soft iron powder and nickel powder in equalportions.
 Make
 sure ALL ball milling, preparation and procedures arestrictly inert
 atmosphere
 and dry box manipulations. Compress a portionof the mix to a small pill
 which
 fits easily into the disk indentation.Seal the chamber, welding with
 jeweler's
 tools. Place reactor in asmall beaker with water. Place on top of
 induction
 coil heating unit.Cause the water to boil from heat induced by alternating
 magneticfield. Once boiling, turn off the induction heater. Keep adding
 wateras
 the boiling will continue by itself for ? years. Mine is stillboiling
 after
 over 5 yeaes.*



 These instructions are reasonably specific.  Has anyone tried replicating
 this?  Is there any reason to believe "Lucky Saint" isn't just pulling our
 leg?



If I wanted to make a free-energy urban legend, I would make it sound a
little like this.

Eric