Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

I don't necessarily agree with everything Dirac believes, but he was
primarily a physicist by nature who was also very
good at mathematics as well.

It is also true that mathematical prowess has become the most important
virtue of a physicist which I don't
think is good for the science.

Harry

On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 1:25 PM Jürg Wyttenbach  wrote:

> Do not try to search inside the old framework. Dirac was a mathematician
> with no clue of physics. He never understood EM theory and the later
> linking with GR made it even worse.
>
> There are no deep orbits as physics always requires forces that are base
> on a proper source (Maxwell! not QM/QED) term not on mathematical fantasy!
>
> Or simply: Potentials are 1st order approximations only! Same with flat
> orbits/free fall.
>
>
> J.W.
> On 24.11.2020 19:09, H LV wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 9:52 AM JonesBeene  wrote:
>
>> Has anyone here seen the vials of supposed hydrinos that Mills used to
>> show at conferences? Were they ever tested independently? He seems to have
>> given up that gimmick (perhaps at the advice of his lawyer)…One wonders
>> what materials would bind to dense hydrogen or even if the material could
>> be contained at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> If H* is dense and chemically inert (except with other H*) then a natural
>> source on earth would be unlikely to have been found in the past.  Any
>> atoms of it which were created would essentially sink since no natural
>> elements should be capable to contain the H* for long, given its
>> compactness and density. Unless the species turns up in biology then it
>> seems that  there is essentially no normal place for it to accumulate. Its
>> density insures that it should preferentially move towards the center of
>> earth with no means of stopping it except for weak diamagnetism -- Assuming
>> that it is  diamagnetic like hydrogen
>>
>>
>>
>
> A. Meulenberg  is a proponent of H* as a pathway to producing excess heat
> through cold fusion . Therefore in addition to showing they can exist, he
> also has to ensure that they have the requisite properties which facilitate
> cold fusion . An interesting criticism arose in recent years is that if
> they do exist as a legitimate solution to the dirac equation then they will
> have a negative energy. If this is true it would undermine their usefulness
> as a pathway to CF.  In the paper_Research Article Advance on Electron Deep
> Orbits of the Hydrogen Atom _ (J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 24 (2017) he
> and Paillet argue with some algebra that the sign of the energy solution
> should be positive rather than negative. I don`t know if their argument is
> sound or not, but they do point out that the negative solution is normally
> regarded as physically meaningless. Since my appreciation of H* does not
> depend on their usefulness in explaining CF, I am willing to accept that a
> negative energy solution is the correct solution, so the next issue is to
> work out the implications. A similar situation arose 90 years ago when
> Dirac was faced with a negative kinetic energy solution to his equation. He
> could have dismissed it as unphysical, but instead he interpreted the
> solution in such a way that led him to propose the existence of a new
> particle...the positron.
>
> Harry
>
>
>
>
>> According to Mills, the solar corona is a vast factory for making dense
>> hydrogen. In all of these Vortex posts, the various theories of dense
>> hydrogen have been intentionally conflated and the name ‘hydrino’ is seldom
>>  used - since most of the theorists now seem to agree that the single
>> densest state is the only one which fits into theory seamlessly and not the
>> stepwise progression of Mills with its 137 steps is counter-productive.
>>
>>
>>
>> At any rate, if millions of tons per day of the stuff are being made in
>> the solar corona and then finding it way to earth via the “solar wind” and
>> collecting in the oceans of earth then it might be possible to work
>> backwards to find a natural biological repository and then look there..
>>
>>
>>
>> The best candidate I can think of would involve  the lifeforms  around
>> the deep ocean vents. Maybe the mussel shells found there are high density
>> and self-heating  😊
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> · If hydrinos are just more stable versions of isolated hydrogen
>> atoms they should have been discovered in hydrogen gas using old technology
>> many decades ago. But this is just a strawman argument against their
>> existence.
>>
>> Harry
>>
>> What old technology, exactly, would have discovered them? That is an
>> intriguing path to follow
>>
>> BTW it could be a “fundable” inquiry involving a deeper look at old
>> data.. should anyone here be looking for a new project.
>>
>> H* would have almost the same mass as hydrogen - but would be so  much
>> denser that it  probably cannot react chemically in the same way, so they
>> are relatively inert.
>>
>> For instance, there is unlikely to be found in nature a form of wat

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

Do not try to search inside the old framework. Dirac was a mathematician 
with no clue of physics. He never understood EM theory and the later 
linking with GR made it even worse.


There are no deep orbits as physics always requires forces that are base 
on a proper source (Maxwell! not QM/QED) term not on mathematical fantasy!


Or simply: Potentials are 1st order approximations only! Same with flat 
orbits/free fall.



J.W.

On 24.11.2020 19:09, H LV wrote:



On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 9:52 AM JonesBeene > wrote:


Has anyone here seen the vials of supposed hydrinos that Mills
used to show at conferences? Were they ever tested independently?
He seems to have given up that gimmick (perhaps at the advice of
his lawyer)…One wonders what materials would bind to dense
hydrogen or even if the material could be contained at all.

If H* is dense and chemically inert (except with other H*) then a
natural source on earth would be unlikely to have been found in
the past.  Any atoms of it which were created would essentially
sink since no natural elements should be capable to contain the H*
for long, given its compactness and density. Unless the species
turns up in biology then it seems that  there is essentially no
normal place for it to accumulate. Its density insures that it
should preferentially move towards the center of earth with no
means of stopping it except for weak diamagnetism -- Assuming that
it is  diamagnetic like hydrogen


A. Meulenberg  is a proponent of H* as a pathway to producing excess 
heat through cold fusion . Therefore in addition to showing they can 
exist, he also has to ensure that they have the requisite properties 
which facilitate cold fusion . An interesting criticism arose in 
recent years is that if they do exist as a legitimate solution to the 
dirac equation then they will have a negative energy. If this is true 
it would undermine their usefulness as a pathway to CF.  In the 
paper_Research Article Advance on Electron Deep Orbits of the Hydrogen 
Atom _ (J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 24 (2017) he and Paillet argue 
with some algebra that the sign of the energy solution should be 
positive rather than negative. I don`t know if their argument is sound 
or not, but they do point out that the negative solution is normally 
regarded as physically meaningless. Since my appreciation of H* does 
not depend on their usefulness in explaining CF, I am willing to 
accept that a negative energy solution is the correct solution, so the 
next issue is to work out the implications. A similar situation arose 
90 years ago when Dirac was faced with a negative kinetic energy 
solution to his equation. He could have dismissed it as unphysical, 
but instead he interpreted the solution in such a way that led him to 
propose the existence of a new particle...the positron.


Harry


According to Mills, the solar corona is a vast factory for making
dense hydrogen. In all of these Vortex posts, the various theories
of dense hydrogen have been intentionally conflated and the name
‘hydrino’ is seldom  used - since most of the theorists now seem
to agree that the single densest state is the only one which fits
into theory seamlessly and not the stepwise progression of Mills
with its 137 steps is counter-productive.

At any rate, if millions of tons per day of the stuff are being
made in the solar corona and then finding it way to earth via the
“solar wind” and collecting in the oceans of earth then it might
be possible to work backwards to find a natural biological
repository and then look there..

The best candidate I can think of would involve  the lifeforms
 around the deep ocean vents. Maybe the mussel shells found there
are high density and self-heating 😊

·If hydrinos are just more stable versions of isolated
hydrogen atoms they should have been discovered in
hydrogen gas using old technology many decades ago. But
this is just a strawman argument against their existence.

Harry

What old technology, exactly, would have discovered them?
That is an intriguing path to follow

BTW it could be a “fundable” inquiry involving a deeper
look at old data.. should anyone here be looking for a new
project.

H* would have almost the same mass as hydrogen - but would
be so  much denser that it  probably cannot react
chemically in the same way, so they are relatively inert.

For instance, there is unlikely to be found in nature a
form of water where one of the protons is replaced with
dense hydrogen as this could present a charge imbalance.

It would be worth the effort to find the most likely place
dense hydrogen should be found in nature (assuming it is re

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 9:52 AM JonesBeene  wrote:

> Has anyone here seen the vials of supposed hydrinos that Mills used to
> show at conferences? Were they ever tested independently? He seems to have
> given up that gimmick (perhaps at the advice of his lawyer)…One wonders
> what materials would bind to dense hydrogen or even if the material could
> be contained at all.
>
>
>
> If H* is dense and chemically inert (except with other H*) then a natural
> source on earth would be unlikely to have been found in the past.  Any
> atoms of it which were created would essentially sink since no natural
> elements should be capable to contain the H* for long, given its
> compactness and density. Unless the species turns up in biology then it
> seems that  there is essentially no normal place for it to accumulate. Its
> density insures that it should preferentially move towards the center of
> earth with no means of stopping it except for weak diamagnetism -- Assuming
> that it is  diamagnetic like hydrogen
>
>
>

A. Meulenberg  is a proponent of H* as a pathway to producing excess heat
through cold fusion . Therefore in addition to showing they can exist, he
also has to ensure that they have the requisite properties which facilitate
cold fusion . An interesting criticism arose in recent years is that if
they do exist as a legitimate solution to the dirac equation then they will
have a negative energy. If this is true it would undermine their usefulness
as a pathway to CF.  In the paper_Research Article Advance on Electron Deep
Orbits of the Hydrogen Atom _ (J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 24 (2017) he
and Paillet argue with some algebra that the sign of the energy solution
should be positive rather than negative. I don`t know if their argument is
sound or not, but they do point out that the negative solution is normally
regarded as physically meaningless. Since my appreciation of H* does not
depend on their usefulness in explaining CF, I am willing to accept that a
negative energy solution is the correct solution, so the next issue is to
work out the implications. A similar situation arose 90 years ago when
Dirac was faced with a negative kinetic energy solution to his equation. He
could have dismissed it as unphysical, but instead he interpreted the
solution in such a way that led him to propose the existence of a new
particle...the positron.

Harry




> According to Mills, the solar corona is a vast factory for making dense
> hydrogen. In all of these Vortex posts, the various theories of dense
> hydrogen have been intentionally conflated and the name ‘hydrino’ is seldom
>  used - since most of the theorists now seem to agree that the single
> densest state is the only one which fits into theory seamlessly and not the
> stepwise progression of Mills with its 137 steps is counter-productive.
>
>
>
> At any rate, if millions of tons per day of the stuff are being made in
> the solar corona and then finding it way to earth via the “solar wind” and
> collecting in the oceans of earth then it might be possible to work
> backwards to find a natural biological repository and then look there..
>
>
>
> The best candidate I can think of would involve  the lifeforms  around the
> deep ocean vents. Maybe the mussel shells found there are high density and
> self-heating  😊
>
>
>
>
>
> · If hydrinos are just more stable versions of isolated hydrogen
> atoms they should have been discovered in hydrogen gas using old technology
> many decades ago. But this is just a strawman argument against their
> existence.
>
> Harry
>
> What old technology, exactly, would have discovered them? That is an
> intriguing path to follow
>
> BTW it could be a “fundable” inquiry involving a deeper look at old data..
> should anyone here be looking for a new project.
>
> H* would have almost the same mass as hydrogen - but would be so  much
> denser that it  probably cannot react chemically in the same way, so they
> are relatively inert.
>
> For instance, there is unlikely to be found in nature a form of water
> where one of the protons is replaced with dense hydrogen as this could
> present a charge imbalance.
>
> It would be worth the effort to find the most likely place dense hydrogen
> should be found in nature (assuming it is real)
>
> My guess is that it would be in biological lifeforms which use it for
> survival, somehow.
>
> Jones
>
>
>
> Look for abnormally high energetic emissions from a hot hydrogen gas. That
> would be evidence of hydrogen relaxing below the ground state. The
> probability of the formation of hydrinos in an ideal gas would be very
> low.. However, I think the probability might increase as the gas got
> cooler. This would be in contrast with the probability of fusion
> increasing as the temperature of the gas increased.
>
>
>
> Harry
>
>
>
> It might be better to look for unusual absorption lines in a cold gas of
> hydrogen. This would indicate the hydrino atom was there but changed back
> into an ordinary hydr

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

To make it short:

There is one single stable state (H*-H*) in Mills terminology 
Dihydrino...The physics behind Mills Hydrino is childish there are no 
isolated single Hydrinos. This H*-H* state has been detected by Santilli 
but he also claimed a single state. Mills made perfect measurements of 
the Di-Hydrino from filaments produced by the SUN-Cell reaction. (See 
business reports!) Where as Holmlids measurements are not reliable as he 
measures clusters.


All you need for H*-H* is : very low pressure and a surface that forces 
spin-alignment (e.g. a styren-catalyst)


J.W.

On 23.11.2020 15:52, JonesBeene wrote:


Has anyone here seen the vials of supposed hydrinos that Mills used to 
show at conferences? Were they ever tested independently? He seems to 
have given up that gimmick (perhaps at the advice of his lawyer)…One 
wonders what materials would bind to dense hydrogen or even if the 
material could be contained at all.


If H* is dense and chemically inert (except with other H*) then a 
natural source on earth would be unlikely to have been found in the 
past.  Any atoms of it which were created would essentially sink since 
no natural elements should be capable to contain the H* for long, 
given its compactness and density. Unless the species turns up in 
biology then it seems that  there is essentially no normal place for 
it to accumulate. Its density insures that it should preferentially 
move towards the center of earth with no means of stopping it except 
for weak diamagnetism -- Assuming that it is  diamagnetic like hydrogen


According to Mills, the solar corona is a vast factory for making 
dense hydrogen. In all of these Vortex posts, the various theories of 
dense hydrogen have been intentionally conflated and the name 
‘hydrino’ is seldom  used - since most of the theorists now seem to 
agree that the single densest state is the only one which fits into 
theory seamlessly and not the stepwise progression of Mills with its 
137 steps is counter-productive.


At any rate, if millions of tons per day of the stuff are being made 
in the solar corona and then finding it way to earth via the “solar 
wind” and collecting in the oceans of earth then it might be possible 
to work backwards to find a natural biological repository and then 
look there..


The best candidate I can think of would involve  the lifeforms  around 
the deep ocean vents. Maybe the mussel shells found there are high 
density and self-heating 😊


·If hydrinos are just more stable versions of isolated
hydrogen atoms they should have been discovered in hydrogen
gas using old technology many decades ago. But this is just a
strawman argument against their existence.

Harry

What old technology, exactly, would have discovered them? That
is an intriguing path to follow

BTW it could be a “fundable” inquiry involving a deeper look
at old data.. should anyone here be looking for a new project.

H* would have almost the same mass as hydrogen - but would be
so  much denser that it  probably cannot react chemically in
the same way, so they are relatively inert.

For instance, there is unlikely to be found in nature a form
of water where one of the protons is replaced with dense
hydrogen as this could present a charge imbalance.

It would be worth the effort to find the most likely place
dense hydrogen should be found in nature (assuming it is real)

My guess is that it would be in biological lifeforms which use
it for survival, somehow.

Jones

Look for abnormally high energetic emissions from a hot hydrogen
gas. That would be evidence of hydrogen relaxing below the ground
state. The probability of the formation of hydrinos in an ideal
gas would be very low.. However, I think the probability might
increase as the gas got cooler. This would be in contrast with the
probability of fusion increasing as the temperature of the gas
increased.

Harry

It might be better to look for unusual absorption lines in a cold gas 
of hydrogen. This would indicate the hydrino atom was there but 
changed back into an ordinary hydrogen atom by absorbing energy.


Jürg


--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

RE: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[JonesBeene]

Has anyone here seen the vials of supposed hydrinos that Mills used to show at 
conferences? Were they ever tested independently? He seems to have given up 
that gimmick (perhaps at the advice of his lawyer)…One wonders what materials 
would bind to dense hydrogen or even if the material could be contained at all. 

If H* is dense and chemically inert (except with other H*) then a natural 
source on earth would be unlikely to have been found in the past.  Any atoms of 
it which were created would essentially sink since no natural elements should 
be capable to contain the H* for long, given its compactness and density. 
Unless the species turns up in biology then it seems that  there is essentially 
no normal place for it to accumulate. Its density insures that it should 
preferentially move towards the center of earth with no means of stopping it 
except for weak diamagnetism -- Assuming that it is  diamagnetic like hydrogen

According to Mills, the solar corona is a vast factory for making dense 
hydrogen. In all of these Vortex posts, the various theories of dense hydrogen 
have been intentionally conflated and the name ‘hydrino’ is seldom  used - 
since most of the theorists now seem to agree that the single densest state is 
the only one which fits into theory seamlessly and not the stepwise progression 
of Mills with its 137 steps is counter-productive.

At any rate, if millions of tons per day of the stuff are being made in the 
solar corona and then finding it way to earth via the “solar wind” and 
collecting in the oceans of earth then it might be possible to work backwards 
to find a natural biological repository and then look there..

The best candidate I can think of would involve  the lifeforms  around the deep 
ocean vents. Maybe the mussel shells found there are high density and 
self-heating  😊

 
• If hydrinos are just more stable versions of isolated hydrogen atoms they 
should have been discovered in hydrogen gas using old technology many decades 
ago. But this is just a strawman argument against their existence. 
Harry 
What old technology, exactly, would have discovered them? That is an intriguing 
path to follow
BTW it could be a “fundable” inquiry involving a deeper look at old data.. 
should anyone here be looking for a new project. 
H* would have almost the same mass as hydrogen - but would be so  much denser 
that it  probably cannot react chemically in the same way, so they are 
relatively inert. 
For instance, there is unlikely to be found in nature a form of water where one 
of the protons is replaced with dense hydrogen as this could present a charge 
imbalance. 
It would be worth the effort to find the most likely place dense hydrogen 
should be found in nature (assuming it is real)
My guess is that it would be in biological lifeforms which use it for survival, 
somehow. 
Jones

Look for abnormally high energetic emissions from a hot hydrogen gas. That 
would be evidence of hydrogen relaxing below the ground state. The probability 
of the formation of hydrinos in an ideal gas would be very low.. However, I 
think the probability might increase as the gas got cooler. This would be in 
contrast with the probability of fusion increasing as the temperature of the 
gas increased.

Harry

It might be better to look for unusual absorption lines in a cold gas of 
hydrogen. This would indicate the hydrino atom was there but changed back into 
an ordinary hydrogen atom by absorbing energy.

Jürg

 
 

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 6:28 PM H LV  wrote:

>
> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 4:20 PM JonesBeene  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>- If hydrinos are just more stable versions of isolated hydrogen
>>atoms they should have been discovered in hydrogen gas using old 
>> technology
>>many decades ago. But this is just a strawman argument against their
>>existence.
>>
>>
>>
>> Harry
>>
>>
>>
>> What old technology, exactly, would have discovered them? That is an
>> intriguing path to follow
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW it could be a “fundable” inquiry involving a deeper look at old
>> data.. should anyone here be looking for a new project.
>>
>>
>>
>> H* would have almost the same mass as hydrogen - but would be so  much
>> denser that it  probably cannot react chemically in the same way, so they
>> are relatively inert.
>>
>>
>>
>> For instance, there is unlikely to be found in nature a form of water
>> where one of the protons is replaced with dense hydrogen as this could
>> present a charge imbalance.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be worth the effort to find the most likely place dense hydrogen
>> should be found in nature (assuming it is real)
>>
>>
>>
>> My guess is that it would be in biological lifeforms which use it for
>> survival, somehow.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jones
>>
>
>
> Look for abnormally high energetic emissions from a hot hydrogen gas. That
> would be evidence of hydrogen relaxing below the ground state. The
> probability of the formation of hydrinos in an ideal gas would be very
> low.. However, I think the probability might increase as the gas got
> cooler. This would be in contrast with the probability of fusion
> increasing as the temperature of the gas increased.
>
> Harry
>

It might be better to look for unusual absorption lines in a cold gas of
hydrogen. This would indicate the hydrino atom was there but changed back
into an ordinary hydrogen atom by absorbing energy.

Harry



>
>

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 4:20 PM JonesBeene  wrote:

>
>
>- If hydrinos are just more stable versions of isolated hydrogen atoms
>they should have been discovered in hydrogen gas using old technology many
>decades ago. But this is just a strawman argument against their existence.
>
>
>
> Harry
>
>
>
> What old technology, exactly, would have discovered them? That is an
> intriguing path to follow
>
>
>
> BTW it could be a “fundable” inquiry involving a deeper look at old data..
> should anyone here be looking for a new project.
>
>
>
> H* would have almost the same mass as hydrogen - but would be so  much
> denser that it  probably cannot react chemically in the same way, so they
> are relatively inert.
>
>
>
> For instance, there is unlikely to be found in nature a form of water
> where one of the protons is replaced with dense hydrogen as this could
> present a charge imbalance.
>
>
>
> It would be worth the effort to find the most likely place dense hydrogen
> should be found in nature (assuming it is real)
>
>
>
> My guess is that it would be in biological lifeforms which use it for
> survival, somehow.
>
>
>
> Jones
>


Look for abnormally high energetic emissions from a hot hydrogen gas. That
would be evidence of hydrogen relaxing below the ground state. The
probability of the formation of hydrinos in an ideal gas would be very
low.. However, I think the probability might increase as the gas got
cooler. This would be in contrast with the probability of fusion
increasing as the temperature of the gas increased.

Harry
Harry

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

Do you mean no closed orbits?


No flat orbits = classic planetary orbits do exist. All natural orbits 
are toroidal! See movements of earth axis!


Mills: No the charge increases linearly with state number (N) what is 
nonsense as a locked in photon (Mills slang) cannot produce such a charge!


J.W.
On 22.11.2020 23:59, H LV wrote

a

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 4:24 PM Jürg Wyttenbach > wrote:


Hydrinos are based on speculative math and contradict the basic
law of charge invariance --> nonsensical. But there are Hydrino
like resonances based on magnetic resonance that is pretty close
to the calculated values. So wrong model - pretty good results.


Yes I recall reading that  a charge on the proton changes slightly 
when one of Mill's hydrino forms.


Dark matter is based on pretty bad understanding of physics
only... There are no flat orbits in nature and thus SM/GR is
incomplete.


Do you mean no closed orbits?

Harry

J.W.

On 22.11.2020 19:55, JonesBeene wrote:


*From: *H LV 

  * Mills says his hydrino model of a below ground state hydrogen
atom is stable. However, if hydrinos were stable they should
be more common than ordinary hydrogen atoms which is not the
case. Therefore, if below ground states of hydrogen atoms can
exist I think it is more likely that such an atom is
typically less stable than its above ground state counterpart
and a special environment is needed to favour the formation
of such a 'cold atom'.

Harry

This is the beauty of the further related hypothesis, also
espoused by Holmlid, Mills and others…

Which is basically this: dense hydrogen = dark matter

This solves the precise problem you mention on the universal
scale. Now there is far more dark matter (dense hydrogen)than
primordial hydrogen and this is indicative of eons of
densification of light hydrogen followed by accumulation as dark
matter.

IOW billions of years ago there was much more hydrogen and much
less of what is now dark matter.

-- 
Jürg Wyttenbach

Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06


--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 4:24 PM Jürg Wyttenbach  wrote:

> Hydrinos are based on speculative math and contradict the basic law of
> charge invariance --> nonsensical. But there are Hydrino like resonances
> based on magnetic resonance that is pretty close to the calculated values.
> So wrong model - pretty good results.
>
>
> Yes I recall reading that  a charge on the proton changes slightly when
one of Mill's hydrino forms.

Dark matter is based on pretty bad understanding of physics only... There
> are no flat orbits in nature and thus SM/GR is incomplete.
>
>
> Do you mean no closed orbits?

Harry



> J.W.
> On 22.11.2020 19:55, JonesBeene wrote:
>
> *From: *H LV 
>
>
>
>- Mills says his hydrino model of a below ground state hydrogen atom
>is stable. However, if hydrinos were stable they should be more common than
>ordinary hydrogen atoms which is not the case. Therefore, if below ground
>states of hydrogen atoms can exist I think it is more likely that such
>an atom is typically less stable than its above ground state counterpart
>and a special environment is needed to favour the formation of such a 'cold
>atom'.
>
>
>
> Harry
>
>
>
>
>
> This is the beauty of the further related hypothesis, also espoused by
> Holmlid, Mills and others…
>
>
>
> Which is basically this: dense hydrogen = dark matter
>
>
>
> This solves the precise problem you mention on the universal scale. Now
> there is far more dark matter (dense hydrogen)than primordial hydrogen and
> this is indicative of eons of densification of light hydrogen followed by
> accumulation as dark matter.
>
>
>
> IOW billions of years ago there was much more hydrogen and much less of
> what is now dark matter.
>
> --
> Jürg Wyttenbach
> Bifangstr. 22
> 8910 Affoltern am Albis
>
> +41 44 760 14 18
> +41 79 246 36 06
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

Hydrinos are based on speculative math and contradict the basic law of 
charge invariance --> nonsensical. But there are Hydrino like resonances 
based on magnetic resonance that is pretty close to the calculated 
values. So wrong model - pretty good results.



Dark matter is based on pretty bad understanding of physics only... 
There are no flat orbits in nature and thus SM/GR is incomplete.



J.W.

On 22.11.2020 19:55, JonesBeene wrote:


*From: *H LV 

  * Mills says his hydrino model of a below ground state hydrogen atom
is stable. However, if hydrinos were stable they should be more
common than ordinary hydrogen atoms which is not the case.
Therefore, if below ground states of hydrogen atoms can exist I
think it is more likely that such an atom is typically less stable
than its above ground state counterpart and a special environment
is needed to favour the formation of such a 'cold atom'.

Harry

This is the beauty of the further related hypothesis, also espoused by 
Holmlid, Mills and others…


Which is basically this: dense hydrogen = dark matter

This solves the precise problem you mention on the universal scale. 
Now there is far more dark matter (dense hydrogen)than primordial 
hydrogen and this is indicative of eons of densification of light 
hydrogen followed by accumulation as dark matter.


IOW billions of years ago there was much more hydrogen and much less 
of what is now dark matter.



--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

RE: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[JonesBeene]

➢ If hydrinos are just more stable versions of isolated hydrogen atoms they 
should have been discovered in hydrogen gas using old technology many decades 
ago. But this is just a strawman argument against their existence.

Harry

What old technology, exactly, would have discovered them? That is an intriguing 
path to follow

BTW it could be a “fundable” inquiry involving a deeper look at old data.. 
should anyone here be looking for a new project.

H* would have almost the same mass as hydrogen - but would be so  much denser 
that it  probably cannot react chemically in the same way, so they are 
relatively inert.

 For instance, there is unlikely to be found in nature a form of water where 
one of the protons is replaced with dense hydrogen as this could present a 
charge imbalance.

It would be worth the effort to find the most likely place dense hydrogen 
should be found in nature (assuming it is real)

My guess is that it would be in biological lifeforms which use it for survival, 
somehow.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 1:55 PM JonesBeene  wrote:

> *From: *H LV 
>
>
>
>- Mills says his hydrino model of a below ground state hydrogen atom
>is stable. However, if hydrinos were stable they should be more common than
>ordinary hydrogen atoms which is not the case. Therefore, if below ground
>states of hydrogen atoms can exist I think it is more likely that such
>an atom is typically less stable than its above ground state counterpart
>and a special environment is needed to favour the formation of such a 'cold
>atom'.
>
>
>
> Harry
>
>
>
>
>
> This is the beauty of the further related hypothesis, also espoused by
> Holmlid, Mills and others…
>
>
>
> Which is basically this: dense hydrogen = dark matter
>
>
>
> This solves the precise problem you mention on the universal scale. Now
> there is far more dark matter (dense hydrogen)than primordial hydrogen and
> this is indicative of eons of densification of light hydrogen followed by
> accumulation as dark matter.
>
>
>
> IOW billions of years ago there was much more hydrogen and much less of
> what is now dark matter.
>

I guess it depends on what one means by stable.  If hydrinos are just more
stable versions of isolated hydrogen atoms they should have been discovered
in hydrogen gas using old technology many decades ago. But this is just a
strawman argument against their existence.

Harry

RE: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[JonesBeene]

From: H LV

➢ Mills says his hydrino model of a below ground state hydrogen atom is stable. 
However, if hydrinos were stable they should be more common than ordinary 
hydrogen atoms which is not the case. Therefore, if below ground states of 
hydrogen atoms can exist I think it is more likely that such an atom is 
typically less stable than its above ground state counterpart and a special 
environment is needed to favour the formation of such a 'cold atom'. 

Harry


This is the beauty of the further related hypothesis, also espoused by Holmlid, 
Mills and others…

Which is basically this: dense hydrogen = dark matter 

This solves the precise problem you mention on the universal scale. Now there 
is far more dark matter (dense hydrogen)than primordial hydrogen and this is 
indicative of eons of densification of light hydrogen followed by accumulation 
as dark matter. 

IOW billions of years ago there was much more hydrogen and much less of what is 
now dark matter.

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

Mills says his hydrino model of a below ground state hydrogen atom is
stable. However, if hydrinos were stable they should be more common than
ordinary hydrogen atoms which is not the case. Therefore, if below ground
states of hydrogen atoms can exist I think it is more likely that such
an atom is typically less stable than its above ground state counterpart
and a special environment is needed to favour the formation of such a 'cold
atom'.

Harry

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 6:54 AM Jürg Wyttenbach  wrote:

> There is one deep state for Hydrogen/Deuterium that has been detected by
> R.Santilli more than 20 years ago.
>
> There are dozens of fantasts that believe in deep electron orbits and some
> finally end up in nuclear bonds that cannot be understood by classic
> physics. H* the "deep" Hydrogen state has been extensively measured by R.
> Mills and can be exactly calculated by new physics (SO(4) physics).
>
> In fact it is not a deep Hydrogen state, its a weak nuclear bond we call
> H*-H*.
>
> We today exactly understand how (cold) fusion works but you must learn new
> physics and forget the rotten/nonsensical standard model.
>
>
> J.W.
> On 22.11.2020 07:23, H LV wrote:
>
> In response to hot fusion detractors of the cold fusion explanation of
> excess heat, proponents of cold fusion say that the conventional theory of
> hot fusion does not apply to the conditions present in a lattice. The
> proponents argue that the lattice can somehow amplify the probability of
> fusion through some sort of enhanced quantum tunneling effect.
>
> What I would like to know is if anyone has proposed the possibility that
> the familiar ground state of a hydrogen atom can  be changed and lowered
> through some sort of quantum effect of the lattice on the wave function of
> a hydrogen atom. If special quantum circumstances are required for the
> formation of sub states of hydrogen it would explain why they are not
> typically observed.
>
> Harry
>
>
> --
> Jürg Wyttenbach
> Bifangstr. 22
> 8910 Affoltern am Albis
>
> +41 44 760 14 18
> +41 79 246 36 06
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[Stefan Israelsson Tampe]

I think that electron screening means that the nuclei also can aim better
at each other. In hot plasma you do not have this screening effect. Also an
effect to consider.

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 7:46 AM H LV  wrote:

> In response to hot fusion detractors of the cold fusion explanation of
> excess heat, proponents of cold fusion say that the conventional theory of
> hot fusion does not apply to the conditions present in a lattice. The
> proponents argue that the lattice can somehow amplify the probability of
> fusion through some sort of enhanced quantum tunneling effect.
>
> What I would like to know is if anyone has proposed the possibility that
> the familiar ground state of a hydrogen atom can  be changed and lowered
> through some sort of quantum effect of the lattice on the wave function of
> a hydrogen atom. If special quantum circumstances are required for the
> formation of sub states of hydrogen it would explain why they are not
> typically observed.
>
> Harry
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

There is one deep state for Hydrogen/Deuterium that has been detected by 
R.Santilli more than 20 years ago.


There are dozens of fantasts that believe in deep electron orbits and 
some finally end up in nuclear bonds that cannot be understood by 
classic physics. H* the "deep" Hydrogen state has been extensively 
measured by R. Mills and can be exactly calculated by new physics (SO(4) 
physics).


In fact it is not a deep Hydrogen state, its a weak nuclear bond we call 
H*-H*.


We today exactly understand how (cold) fusion works but you must learn 
new physics and forget the rotten/nonsensical standard model.



J.W.

On 22.11.2020 07:23, H LV wrote:
In response to hot fusion detractors of the cold fusion explanation of 
excess heat, proponents of cold fusion say that the conventional 
theory of hot fusion does not apply to the conditions present in a 
lattice. The proponents argue that the lattice can somehow amplify the 
probability of fusion through some sort of enhanced quantum tunneling 
effect.


What I would like to know is if anyone has proposed the possibility 
that the familiar ground state of a hydrogen atom can  be changed and 
lowered through some sort of quantum effect of the lattice on the wave 
function of a hydrogen atom. If special quantum circumstances are 
required for the formation of sub states of hydrogen it would explain 
why they are not typically observed.


Harry



--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

[Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

In response to hot fusion detractors of the cold fusion explanation of
excess heat, proponents of cold fusion say that the conventional theory of
hot fusion does not apply to the conditions present in a lattice. The
proponents argue that the lattice can somehow amplify the probability of
fusion through some sort of enhanced quantum tunneling effect.

What I would like to know is if anyone has proposed the possibility that
the familiar ground state of a hydrogen atom can  be changed and lowered
through some sort of quantum effect of the lattice on the wave function of
a hydrogen atom. If special quantum circumstances are required for the
formation of sub states of hydrogen it would explain why they are not
typically observed.

Harry