Re: [Vo]:Low cost minimal Rossi-effect experiment
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 8 Jun 2014 08:09:35 -0700: Hi, [snip] This hydrogen enrichment can be accomplished with a membrane which is more porous to hydrogen than to oxygen. Many tightly woven fabrics like Gore-Tex are in this category. The idea is to split the HHO into two stream, one H-rich and the other O-rich. The H-rich steam will be ported into one end of the CC and the O-rich stream can come in from a hole drilled in the side of the CC. This separation via two steams provides a supply of hot H2 to react before it is converted to steam, but in the end, it still retains all the heat of the HHO plus the added heat of Ni-H. It is a bastardized approach but it can work. There is an even simpler method. Just use ordinary DC electrolysis, where the oxygen and hydrogen are evolved at different electrodes, resulting in a complete separation from the start. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Low cost minimal Rossi-effect experiment
On Mon, 09 Jun 2014 07:54:01 +1000, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 8 Jun 2014 08:09:35 -0700: Hi, [snip] This hydrogen enrichment can be accomplished with a membrane which is more porous to hydrogen than to oxygen. Many tightly woven fabrics like Gore-Tex are in this category. The idea is to split the HHO into two stream, one H-rich and the other O-rich. The H-rich steam will be ported into one end of the CC and the O-rich stream can come in from a hole drilled in the side of the CC. This separation via two steams provides a supply of hot H2 to react before it is converted to steam, but in the end, it still retains all the heat of the HHO plus the added heat of Ni-H. It is a bastardized approach but it can work. There is an even simpler method. Just use ordinary DC electrolysis, where the oxygen and hydrogen are evolved at different electrodes, resulting in a complete separation from the start. A gallium aluminium reaction might also be a good way to go; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JasZ8V6LpbQ the oxygen ends up bound to the aluminium so I think you should end up with fairly pure hydrogen gas.. I've seen other videos that used this (gallium) paste; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cool-laboratory-Coollaboratory-Liquid-Pro-Liquid-Metal-Thermal-Paste-/351004610402?_trksid=p2054897.l4275 just put a few drops on a strip of aluminium from an old can.. should also work for producing deuterium gas using heavy water. Rob
Re: [Vo]:Low cost minimal Rossi-effect experiment
On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 8:09 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: The first big issue is the catalysts. ... the reaction with carbon monoxide creates tetra-carbonyl nickel, which is highly toxic. Copper is illegal because of the formation of dioxin. In light of these points about tetra-carbonyl nickel and dioxin, the hobbyist attempting to carry out an experiment involving a reaction between H and nickel adsorbed onto the surface of a catalytic converter should be careful about dealing with the offgas, especially if copper turns out to be a significant byproduct of the reaction. Eric
RE: [Vo]:Low cost minimal Rossi-effect experiment
-Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 8 Jun 2014 08:09:35 -0700: Hi, [snip] This hydrogen enrichment can be accomplished with a membrane which is more porous to hydrogen than to oxygen. Many tightly woven fabrics like Gore-Tex are in this category. The idea is to split the HHO into two stream, one H-rich and the other O-rich. The H-rich steam will be ported into one end of the CC and the O-rich stream can come in from a hole drilled in the side of the CC. This separation via two steams provides a supply of hot H2 to react before it is converted to steam, but in the end, it still retains all the heat of the HHO plus the added heat of Ni-H. It is a bastardized approach but it can work. There is an even simpler method. Just use ordinary DC electrolysis, where the oxygen and hydrogen are evolved at different electrodes, resulting in a complete separation from the start. Hi Robin Yes, of course that would work - but most of the participants in this H-Cat thing already have the multi-plate HHO cells, which cannot be easily modified to do what you suggest. My aim was to come with a simple fix that might allow them to see Ni-H gain with what they already have in operation. BTW this guy on YT has an elaborate membrane system for separation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU6576HSrbc ...yet since complete separation is not required, a single membrane over the bubbler can do the job cheaply and quickly. If the HHO, which is normally a 2:1 ratio is partially separated into two streams, one of which is say 3:1 and the other is 1:1, then the extra hydrogen in the first stream is not only enriched but also thermally activated by the flame - which is the substitute for Rossi's resistance heat. This could allow the Ni-H reaction to proceed on the unoxidized fraction of hydrogen. Since the gain there is at least 6:1 according to Andrea Rossi, then the net efficiency which is seen now could jump from 77% well into the range of overunity... ... with the proviso according to Andrea Rossi ... which does not inspire universal confidence levels (but that may change in a couple of weeks). :-) attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Low cost minimal Rossi-effect experiment
I wrote: In light of these points about tetra-carbonyl nickel and dioxin, the hobbyist attempting to carry out an experiment involving a reaction between H and nickel adsorbed onto the surface of a catalytic converter should be careful about dealing with the offgas, especially if copper turns out to be a significant byproduct of the reaction. On second thought, these byproducts are probably not too much of a concern, as they probably require a hydrocarbon to form (e.g., gasoline). Eric
RE: [Vo]:Low cost minimal Rossi-effect experiment
Since the only byproduct of the H-Cat operation is water, it is possible to have a completely closed-cycle with no exhaust. From: Eric Walker I wrote: In light of these points about tetra-carbonyl nickel and dioxin, the hobbyist attempting to carry out an experiment involving a reaction between H and nickel adsorbed onto the surface of a catalytic converter should be careful about dealing with the offgas, especially if copper turns out to be a significant byproduct of the reaction. On second thought, these byproducts are probably not too much of a concern, as they probably require a hydrocarbon to form (e.g., gasoline). Eric
RE: [Vo]:Low cost minimal Rossi-effect experiment
-Original Message- From: Robert McKay A gallium aluminum reaction might also be a good way to go; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JasZ8V6LpbQ This would make hydrogen, but also make it difficult to judge the efficiency. Plus, as mentioned in another post, when a fraction of the HHO is combusted, that heat (and light) can supply the threshold energy input which is needed in the Rossi reaction. At least with the HHO cell for supplying hydrogen - the input power can be read with a meter - so there is no doubt how much is going in. These cells are fairly efficient 70-75% so to reach a net level of overunity, the gainful Ni-H reaction, which happens for that fraction of hydrogen which is not burned initially, probably needs to be COP~2, but according to AR: no problemo... oops make that: nessun problema.
Re: [Vo]:Low cost minimal Rossi-effect experiment
In reply to Robert McKay's message of Sun, 08 Jun 2014 23:14:55 +0100: Hi, [snip] A gallium aluminium reaction might also be a good way to go; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JasZ8V6LpbQ the oxygen ends up bound to the aluminium so I think you should end up with fairly pure hydrogen gas.. I've seen other videos that used this (gallium) paste; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cool-laboratory-Coollaboratory-Liquid-Pro-Liquid-Metal-Thermal-Paste-/351004610402?_trksid=p2054897.l4275 just put a few drops on a strip of aluminium from an old can.. should also work for producing deuterium gas using heavy water. You can also just add Aluminium (in any metallic form), to an alkaline solution. Pure Hydrogen evolves rapidly and readily. This works great with caustic soda, but would probably also work well with Ammonia, and maybe even with a warm washing soda solution (Sodium Carbonate). Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
