Re: [Vo]:Yet another flying car
Drowning Trout drowningtro...@gmail.com wrote: Evacuated Tube Transports would be way more beneficial than flying cars. This is similar to the proposed SwissMetro project. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Yet another flying car
Flying cars can eliminate the need for cities, and many of the problems that cities create: -crime and other social problems arising from lack of community -hugely expensive housing driven by high land prices -wasted lives commuting -environmental issues from high population densities -expensive and bad environment for children, (cities are huge population sinks where people cannot afford to have children, unlike rural areas) -massive expense of transport infrastructure Electric VTOL aircraft can be extremely efficient and cheap and not too noisy if they are sized to carry one person (the majority of all needed trips). Here is a nice example that is being developed at the moment: http://www.jobyaviation.com/animation.php 100miles in an hour point to point with $3 in electricity and no roads from an aircraft that would cost $10k in mass production (with a concept that really can work). This form of transportation would be far cheaper than cars, buses or trains, and would have better range for lower cost than electric cars. Automated aircraft control is a much easier problem to solve than automated car driving owing to consistency of air and lack of obstacles. There are many other similar concepts. High powered brushless motors and batteries + GPS and cheap digital communications and computing have really opened up tremendous opportunities in this area, I expect to see a breakthrough product in next 10 years. On 5 April 2012 03:32, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: The solution to the traffic problem is to stop going places. Reduce commuting distances with full screen video telecommuting from home and from satellite offices. Agreed. Make cities beautiful and livable and compact enough for people to get around by foot and use mass transit. This is the pattern of European cities. Many American cities had the misfortune of expanding when the automobile was becoming common and people were infatuated with the freedom of movement they allow. People don't appear to have appreciated how much strip malls, traffic, automobile pollution and urban sprawl would detract from their quality of life. It's possible to increase urban population density without getting rid of cars altogether. They can be kept in compact garages near the outskirts of a city. Flying cars would only add to the noise and clutter. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Yet another flying car
On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 03:56:56PM +0100, Robert Lynn wrote: Flying cars can eliminate the need for cities, and many of the problems that cities create: -crime and other social problems arising from lack of community -hugely expensive housing driven by high land prices -wasted lives commuting -environmental issues from high population densities -expensive and bad environment for children, (cities are huge population sinks where people cannot afford to have children, unlike rural areas) -massive expense of transport infrastructure As hinted at by Jed and Eric, the problems you are describing are very US-centric, and I don't think flying cars are the way to address them. In Europe (for example) cities are designed to live in, rather than commute from/to I was born in the US, and you pretty much have to have a vehicle: the public transportation is poor or nonexistent, there are few bike lanes, and important places (home, work, market, pub) are so geographically separated that you have no other options. Over here things are much better. Every place I want to go is accessible by foot. There are dedicated bike paths to and from every city, and if you don't have a bike there are trains and buses which run frequently around the clock. The social life certainly benefits from this. Perhaps better planning would assuage some of these problems, but I'm not so sure. It's possible this urban sprawl/car culture runs too deep. -X Electric VTOL aircraft can be extremely efficient and cheap and not too noisy if they are sized to carry one person (the majority of all needed trips). Here is a nice example that is being developed at the moment: http://www.jobyaviation.com/animation.php 100miles in an hour point to point with $3 in electricity and no roads from an aircraft that would cost $10k in mass production (with a concept that really can work). This form of transportation would be far cheaper than cars, buses or trains, and would have better range for lower cost than electric cars. Automated aircraft control is a much easier problem to solve than automated car driving owing to consistency of air and lack of obstacles. There are many other similar concepts. High powered brushless motors and batteries + GPS and cheap digital communications and computing have really opened up tremendous opportunities in this area, I expect to see a breakthrough product in next 10 years. On 5 April 2012 03:32, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: The solution to the traffic problem is to stop going places. Reduce commuting distances with full screen video telecommuting from home and from satellite offices. Agreed. Make cities beautiful and livable and compact enough for people to get around by foot and use mass transit. This is the pattern of European cities. Many American cities had the misfortune of expanding when the automobile was becoming common and people were infatuated with the freedom of movement they allow. People don't appear to have appreciated how much strip malls, traffic, automobile pollution and urban sprawl would detract from their quality of life. It's possible to increase urban population density without getting rid of cars altogether. They can be kept in compact garages near the outskirts of a city. Flying cars would only add to the noise and clutter. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Yet another flying car
On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Xavier Luminous xavier.lumin...@googlemail.com wrote: As hinted at by Jed and Eric, the problems you are describing are very US-centric, and I don't think flying cars are the way to address them. Jed and I live in Atlanta. The average one-way commute in Atlanta is 33 miles. Mine is 25 miles. Jed has chosen more wisely. T
Re: [Vo]:Yet another flying car
Average European commute is ca. 33 minutes. That is perhaps something like 8 miles. I have less than 25 minutes if walking to the parking lot is accounted. As Xavier pointed out this problem with cities is mostly American problem due to bad city design. Other problem is with the distribution of wealth in America, because middle class real incomes has not increased since 1970's. This causes all sorts of social problems and is greatly contributing to commuting distance. One factor is that middle class workers has no longer enough purchasing power to buy decent house from near the working place, hence longer and longer commute. However, when oil prices are rising, it will hurt disproportionally the middle class, yet again. I do not think that flying cars are an option for the masses, because there is very high maintaining costs. This means that they are a toys for only those who will take the maintenance as a hobby. There is of course that unavoidable noise pollution so you cannot fly in the city with those. Also safety issues are too big in the cities. ―Jouni On 5 Apr 2012, at 21:06, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 11:25 AM, Xavier Luminous xavier.lumin...@googlemail.com wrote: As hinted at by Jed and Eric, the problems you are describing are very US-centric, and I don't think flying cars are the way to address them. Jed and I live in Atlanta. The average one-way commute in Atlanta is 33 miles. Mine is 25 miles. Jed has chosen more wisely. T
Re: [Vo]:Yet another flying car
On Tue, 2012-04-03 at 16:24 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote: What is it with flying cars? It seems like the worst idea ever. Why not just rent a car at the airport? Even small airports usually have them. Anyway, here is the latest: http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/04/03/flying_cars_terrafugia_announced_flying_car_has_made_first_flight.html - Jed It's another degree of freedom. For those of us who are private pilots, we have a tremendous range of territory at our finger tips. We can fly 1,000 miles for a weekend trip, but many airports don't have rental cars readily available, and the terms of the lease are such that it's impractical to rent a car for a short period of time. If we can land, drive around town for a couple of hours, take-off, then land at another airport, with ground transportation readily available, then the world will be at our fingertips... finally! Craig
Re: [Vo]:Yet another flying car
I agree that this one is particularly ugly. I liked the one that was in the Dutch news this week better: http://pal-v.com/ In some respect it has much in common with a trailer boat. It gives you the option to take it to another place to launch from and it gives you better storage/parking options. In many places the price of renting parking (hangar) space for your plane is a substantial part of operational expenses when owning a plane. A flying car has the advantage that you do not have to leave it at the airport per se, and that it fits in more or less normal sized garages at cheaper locations and under your own guard. Andre On 04/04/2012 06:45 AM, Craig Haynie wrote: On Tue, 2012-04-03 at 16:24 -0400, Jed Rothwell wrote: What is it with flying cars? It seems like the worst idea ever. Why not just rent a car at the airport? Even small airports usually have them. Anyway, here is the latest: http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/04/03/flying_cars_terrafugia_announced_flying_car_has_made_first_flight.html - Jed It's another degree of freedom. For those of us who are private pilots, we have a tremendous range of territory at our finger tips. We can fly 1,000 miles for a weekend trip, but many airports don't have rental cars readily available, and the terms of the lease are such that it's impractical to rent a car for a short period of time. If we can land, drive around town for a couple of hours, take-off, then land at another airport, with ground transportation readily available, then the world will be at our fingertips... finally! Craig
Re: [Vo]:Yet another flying car
They will become extremely popular and accessible to non pilots when robotic control and guidance through GPS (similar to google cars) would be available. Mass production would bring the price down and it will resolve many problems in terms of traffic and parking in urban centers (people could park on roofs for example). Giovanni On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: What is it with flying cars? It seems like the worst idea ever. Why not just rent a car at the airport? Even small airports usually have them. Anyway, here is the latest: http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/04/03/flying_cars_terrafugia_announced_flying_car_has_made_first_flight.html - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Yet another flying car
Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com wrote: They will become extremely popular and accessible to non pilots when robotic control and guidance through GPS (similar to google cars) would be available. I discuss this in the book. I do not think these will be popular in urban areas because they would clutter up the sky. The solution to the traffic problem is to stop going places. Reduce commuting distances with full screen video telecommuting from home and from satellite offices. Mass production would bring the price down and it will resolve many problems in terms of traffic and parking in urban centers (people could park on roofs for example). People already park on roofs. Rooftop parking lots are common. You could not park aircraft on the roof unless it was designed to hold the weight, and if it was designed to hold the weight, you can park cars there now, with a short access ramp. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Yet another flying car
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: The solution to the traffic problem is to stop going places. Reduce commuting distances with full screen video telecommuting from home and from satellite offices. Agreed. Make cities beautiful and livable and compact enough for people to get around by foot and use mass transit. This is the pattern of European cities. Many American cities had the misfortune of expanding when the automobile was becoming common and people were infatuated with the freedom of movement they allow. People don't appear to have appreciated how much strip malls, traffic, automobile pollution and urban sprawl would detract from their quality of life. It's possible to increase urban population density without getting rid of cars altogether. They can be kept in compact garages near the outskirts of a city. Flying cars would only add to the noise and clutter. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Yet another flying car
Evacuated Tube Transports would be way more beneficial than flying cars. http://www.et3.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92dK_yxaKvk On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 6:24 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: The solution to the traffic problem is to stop going places. Reduce commuting distances with full screen video telecommuting from home and from satellite offices. Agreed. Make cities beautiful and livable and compact enough for people to get around by foot and use mass transit. This is the pattern of European cities. Many American cities had the misfortune of expanding when the automobile was becoming common and people were infatuated with the freedom of movement they allow. People don't appear to have appreciated how much strip malls, traffic, automobile pollution and urban sprawl would detract from their quality of life. It's possible to increase urban population density without getting rid of cars altogether. They can be kept in compact garages near the outskirts of a city. Flying cars would only add to the noise and clutter. Eric
[Vo]:Yet another flying car
What is it with flying cars? It seems like the worst idea ever. Why not just rent a car at the airport? Even small airports usually have them. Anyway, here is the latest: http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/04/03/flying_cars_terrafugia_announced_flying_car_has_made_first_flight.html - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Yet another flying car
The subconscious image that gives this idea legs is taking off/landing from/on your driveway or street. I suppose the gyrocopter-based vehicle (or other short takeoff/landing vehicle) might have some potential to break that out of the subconscious. On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: What is it with flying cars? It seems like the worst idea ever. Why not just rent a car at the airport? Even small airports usually have them. Anyway, here is the latest: http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/04/03/flying_cars_terrafugia_announced_flying_car_has_made_first_flight.html - Jed
