RE: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
If I were to hazard a guess, it's likely an emissions problem. Hyper efficient engines typically burn fuel more completely and therebyrun cleaner, but that is not always true. This is a carbureted engine design so not sure what nasties are being left behind in the exhaust. -j -Original Message-From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 4:16 PMTo: vortex-L@eskimo.comSubject: Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel HybridsRobin van Spaandonk wrote: The only thing preventing this from being adopted across theautomobile industry is the will to do it.And politics. And -- I suppose -- pressure from the oil industry. But if the price of gasoline goes up to $5 per gallon these impediments will vanish.- Jed
RE: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
I would be careful next time you decide to vandalize someone's car like that (yes, it's only free speech when you do it to your own car). Saw some poor chap get the crap kicked out of him for doing that very thing. Seems the ex-marine didn't take too kindly to the passivist message being foisted upon his truck. -j -Original Message- From: leaking pen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 10:51 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids no, the support the troop ribbons are all magnetic. next time you see one, peel it off to see. (or, do like i do. i printed up several 8x10 sheets of bumpersticker paper with small sections that say bring them home now. i simply put that on their car right underneath support our troops. ) On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:51:40 -0500, Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jed Rothwell wrote: Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Entertaining idea, but a typical sticker doesn't weigh an ounce. More like a gram, which would cut that million pounds down to about 30,000 pounds. Only a gram? 10 sheets of 8 x 11.5 paper weigh 46 grams. A 3 page letter in an envelope weighs an ounce. I have not weighed a sticker, but aren't they magnetic? No, the ones you see on cars are more like decals -- they're just a film of plastic, or possibly paper, with sticky stuff on one side. Probably more than a gram, it's true :-) but not a whole lot more, I'd guess. The Fish Wars had the potential to be more expensive, I suppose, since the bumper-fish (both Darwin and IXOYE fish) appear to be rather thick plastic plaques. I kept meaning to get one of each, and let them fight it out on the back of our car, but I waited too long and now the back of the car's completely covered with political bumper stickers, so both fish lost out. I'll bet the biggest energy flag cost is the cost of all those flags on cars flapping in the wind. Fortunately, they have mostly frayed and you do not see them often anymore. Yeah -- I wish I could say the same thing for the gas-station flags, and the flags in restaurants, and the flag in the barber shop, and the flags at the copy shop, and I suppose they'd be useful if one occasionally forgot what country one was in, and needed to be reminded, but that's not a problem I find I have. - Jed -- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write Voltaire -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.2 - Release Date: 05/03/25
Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
In reply to Nick Palmer's message of Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:55:33 -: Hi, [snip] Robin van Spaandonk wrote:- Note that the people at http://www.dolphinaci.com/technology/technology.html are already getting 90+ mpg in some tests, and outperforming the Prius in all tests, and all they have done is somewhat modify a conventional engine Be careful about believing these results from one of the Joseph LaStella stable of companies... You may be correct. The only independent results I could find were from http://www.challengebibendum.com/challenge/front/affich.jsp?codeRubrique=26lang=EN (for 2001) - click on Official Results Prototypes at the bottom of the page. The vehicle in question is the first entry in the table. It appears to have scored badly in most categories, including efficiency. BTW I managed to track down the meaning of the scores, in a PDF document from the 2003 event see http://servicesv2.webmichelin.com/frontnews/servlet/GetElement?elementCode=11331 wherein a D for fuel efficiency implies 21 mpg for small cars. I assume this also applies to the 2001 results. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk All SPAM goes in the trash unread.
Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
Robin van Spaandonk wrote:- Note that the people at http://www.dolphinaci.com/technology/technology.html are already getting 90+ mpg in some tests, and outperforming the Prius in all tests, and all they have done is somewhat modify a conventional engine Be careful about believing these results from one of the Joseph LaStella stable of companies...
Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
--- Nick Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Be careful about believing these results from one of the Joseph LaStella stable of companies... I absolutely agree !! This is DISinformation, pure and simple, and poorly done to boot. AND it is not even Detroit, by 1500 miles. Without any doubt this is little more than crock of BS, if not a corporate setup for something which involves large sums of venture-capital changing hands, as there is zero new technology going on here This is basically a Yanmar with the manifolds polished. Jones However. the underlying concept of an improved diesel hybrid is valid, and biodiesel is valid - (these are the 'hooks' this guy is using to try for a big catch) but there are really NO improvement here that wasn't around in 1975 - and this pulse charge is a plagiarized copy-cat of something GM patented 30 years ago, and they probably copied that from what stock car racers were already doing. When you see the safe harbor provision featured prominently on the home page, you should know this is about $$-advancement for a stock promoter, who has been there, done that, and been sued (superBAT)... and not about energy improvements. Their true color is not green, and their dolphin-logo is looking more like a slug-trail than a symbol for forward-thinking ecology.
Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
no, the support the troop ribbons are all magnetic. next time you see one, peel it off to see. (or, do like i do. i printed up several 8x10 sheets of bumpersticker paper with small sections that say bring them home now. i simply put that on their car right underneath support our troops. ) On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:51:40 -0500, Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jed Rothwell wrote: Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Entertaining idea, but a typical sticker doesn't weigh an ounce. More like a gram, which would cut that million pounds down to about 30,000 pounds. Only a gram? 10 sheets of 8 x 11.5 paper weigh 46 grams. A 3 page letter in an envelope weighs an ounce. I have not weighed a sticker, but aren't they magnetic? No, the ones you see on cars are more like decals -- they're just a film of plastic, or possibly paper, with sticky stuff on one side. Probably more than a gram, it's true :-) but not a whole lot more, I'd guess. The Fish Wars had the potential to be more expensive, I suppose, since the bumper-fish (both Darwin and IXOYE fish) appear to be rather thick plastic plaques. I kept meaning to get one of each, and let them fight it out on the back of our car, but I waited too long and now the back of the car's completely covered with political bumper stickers, so both fish lost out. I'll bet the biggest energy flag cost is the cost of all those flags on cars flapping in the wind. Fortunately, they have mostly frayed and you do not see them often anymore. Yeah -- I wish I could say the same thing for the gas-station flags, and the flags in restaurants, and the flag in the barber shop, and the flags at the copy shop, and I suppose they'd be useful if one occasionally forgot what country one was in, and needed to be reminded, but that's not a problem I find I have. - Jed -- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write Voltaire
Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:22:51 -0800 (PST): Hi, [snip] For $8k extra per vehicle: http://wired.com/news/autotech/0%2C2554%2C66949%2C00.html Earlier this year, GM unveiled the Opel Astra Diesel Hybrid, a sedan concept vehicle the company claims would increase fuel economy by 25 percent over a comparable diesel car, or approximately 59 miles per gallon. The vehicle uses a hybrid system with two electric motors being co-developed with DaimlerChrysler, according to GM. Note that the people at http://www.dolphinaci.com/technology/technology.html are already getting 90+ mpg in some tests, and outperforming the Prius in all tests, and all they have done is somewhat modify a conventional engine, hence the cost of the vehicle could remain about the same. The only thing preventing this from being adopted across the automobile industry is the will to do it. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk All SPAM goes in the trash unread.
Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
Robin van Spaandonk wrote: The only thing preventing this from being adopted across the automobile industry is the will to do it. And politics. And -- I suppose -- pressure from the oil industry. But if the price of gasoline goes up to $5 per gallon these impediments will vanish. - Jed
Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
leaking pen wrote: on the issue of fuel economy, a friend of mine just made a good point. there are an estimated 170 million cars on the road. if one in ten (seems likely) have a one ounce support the troops sticker, we are talking about a bit over a million pounds of metal being shipped around daily. Entertaining idea, but a typical sticker doesn't weigh an ounce. More like a gram, which would cut that million pounds down to about 30,000 pounds. On the other hand, if you throw in the energy cost to manufacture all the American flags being flown at gas stations ever since the beginning of the war, the numbers start to look pretty impressive, I think. And then there are the pickup trucks with the flags plastered over their back windshields. If we add the cost of accidents caused by reduced visibility out the back ... well, whatever...
Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
on the issue of fuel economy, a friend of mine just made a good point. there are an estimated 170 million cars on the road. if one in ten (seems likely) have a one ounce support the troops sticker, we are talking about a bit over a million pounds of metal being shipped around daily. On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:48:42 +1100, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:22:51 -0800 (PST): Hi, [snip] For $8k extra per vehicle: http://wired.com/news/autotech/0%2C2554%2C66949%2C00.html Earlier this year, GM unveiled the Opel Astra Diesel Hybrid, a sedan concept vehicle the company claims would increase fuel economy by 25 percent over a comparable diesel car, or approximately 59 miles per gallon. The vehicle uses a hybrid system with two electric motors being co-developed with DaimlerChrysler, according to GM. Note that the people at http://www.dolphinaci.com/technology/technology.html are already getting 90+ mpg in some tests, and outperforming the Prius in all tests, and all they have done is somewhat modify a conventional engine, hence the cost of the vehicle could remain about the same. The only thing preventing this from being adopted across the automobile industry is the will to do it. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk All SPAM goes in the trash unread. -- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write Voltaire
Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Entertaining idea, but a typical sticker doesn't weigh an ounce. More like a gram, which would cut that million pounds down to about 30,000 pounds. Only a gram? 10 sheets of 8 x 11.5 paper weigh 46 grams. A 3 page letter in an envelope weighs an ounce. I have not weighed a sticker, but aren't they magnetic? The stick on magnet business cards I have seen are pretty heavy. I do not have one handy . . . On the other hand, if you throw in the energy cost to manufacture all the American flags being flown at gas stations ever since the beginning of the war, the numbers start to look pretty impressive, I think. I'll bet the biggest energy flag cost is the cost of all those flags on cars flapping in the wind. Fortunately, they have mostly frayed and you do not see them often anymore. - Jed
Re: Detroit Pushing Diesel Hybrids
Jed Rothwell wrote: Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Entertaining idea, but a typical sticker doesn't weigh an ounce. More like a gram, which would cut that million pounds down to about 30,000 pounds. Only a gram? 10 sheets of 8 x 11.5 paper weigh 46 grams. A 3 page letter in an envelope weighs an ounce. I have not weighed a sticker, but aren't they magnetic? No, the ones you see on cars are more like decals -- they're just a film of plastic, or possibly paper, with sticky stuff on one side. Probably more than a gram, it's true :-) but not a whole lot more, I'd guess. The Fish Wars had the potential to be more expensive, I suppose, since the bumper-fish (both Darwin and IXOYE fish) appear to be rather thick plastic plaques. I kept meaning to get one of each, and let them fight it out on the back of our car, but I waited too long and now the back of the car's completely covered with political bumper stickers, so both fish lost out. I'll bet the biggest energy flag cost is the cost of all those flags on cars flapping in the wind. Fortunately, they have mostly frayed and you do not see them often anymore. Yeah -- I wish I could say the same thing for the gas-station flags, and the flags in restaurants, and the flag in the barber shop, and the flags at the copy shop, and I suppose they'd be useful if one occasionally forgot what country one was in, and needed to be reminded, but that's not a problem I find I have. - Jed
