Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Daniel Rocha]

If Rossi is lying, so is Defkalion, they are playing the same gaming now.

2011/11/20 Mary Yugo 

>
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
>> We don't know what kind of ecat they wanted Rossi to show.
>>
>
> I'm going to guess that they wanted to see the kind that works.  I will
> further venture that they would have settled for any table top nuclear
> fusion reactor that *they* could prove to themselves properly worked when
> properly tested... by them.  That's what I think Rossi didn't want -- an
> independent test.
>

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Mary Yugo]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Daniel Rocha wrote:

> We don't know what kind of ecat they wanted Rossi to show.
>

I'm going to guess that they wanted to see the kind that works.  I will
further venture that they would have settled for any table top nuclear
fusion reactor that *they* could prove to themselves properly worked when
properly tested... by them.  That's what I think Rossi didn't want -- an
independent test.

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Daniel Rocha]

We don't know what kind of ecat they wanted Rossi to show.

2011/11/20 Peter Gluck 

> Defkalion's CEO says about the 48 hours work condition in this paper.
>
> If the E-cat has heated the office for two years, then it seems  later it
> made serious  regress. You can show any photography, how could we know that
> the thing heats indeed?
> As regarding Prof Focardi who;
> a) tacitly accepts the role of Father of Cold Fusion;
> b) has told his old friend Piantelli- I cannot communicate more with you;
> c) says that he does know what the wonder additive called catalyst is-
> that translates to"Rossi does not trust me"
> - I will not believe what he says about this mythical heater
>
>

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Peter Gluck]

Defkalion's CEO says about the 48 hours work condition in this paper.

If the E-cat has heated the office for two years, then it seems  later it
made serious  regress. You can show any photography, how could we know that
the thing heats indeed?
As regarding Prof Focardi who;
a) tacitly accepts the role of Father of Cold Fusion;
b) has told his old friend Piantelli- I cannot communicate more with you;
c) says that he does know what the wonder additive called catalyst is- that
translates to"Rossi does not trust me"
- I will not believe what he says about this mythical heater

I have never accused Rossi of fraud, I think yes he can obtain excess heat
but has not sufficient controil. But he lied a lot starting with the
catalyst, nad with saying that his process has nothing to do
with the fprmer Ni-H processes. The results of the experiments
were "improved", the methods of measurement were "optimized"


On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:31 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Peter Gluck  wrote:
>
>
>> Jed, it seems there was a point in the contract, that the E-cat should
>> work continuously for at least 48 hours- and it didn't.
>
>
> Ah. You refer to the Sept. 6 test done by "Quantum engineers and NASA, but
> which fails due to leakage." Yes, Rossi's prototype equipment often fails
> because of leakage or some unknown problem. Defkalion says their reactors
> are more reliable.
>
>
The heating of
>> n office with an E-cat for 2 years is fairy tales for adults.
>>
>
> Except that someone recently mailed me photos of the damn thing, with
> people I know standing around it, and test data. Plus Focardi and others
> say they saw it running several times. So it is not a fairly tale. Every
> indication is that it is true.
>
> As I said, I have never caught Rossi telling a lie about any engineering
> technical claim. No skeptic has caught him, either, as far as I know. All
> of their examples of lies are their own misunderstandings. He says things
> about theory and transmutation that may not be true, but I would not call
> those statements "lies." I think he does not know much about theory. Since
> I know nothing, I cannot judge.
>
> As I mentioned, I am trying to get permission to upload those photos. It
> might help smooth the way for me to do that if people here would tone down
> these rabid accusations of fraud, made without a shred of evidence. It
> poisons the atmosphere. Expressing doubts is fine, but out-and-out
> accusations and calls by certain unnamed people to have Rossi arrested and
> deported are . . . unhelpful.
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Daniel Rocha]

We don't know what kind of ecat they wanted a proof.

2011/11/20 Peter Gluck 

>
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
>> Peter Gluck  wrote:
>>
>> They are technologically skilled, good engineers and have refused
>>> to pay for an immature and unsafe product.
>>>
>>
>> Who are they? Who refused to pay, for what?
>>
>> I don't see that in the article.
>>
>> This translation is remarkably good, for a machine. A little hard to
>> follow in places.
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>> Jed, it seems there was a point in the contract, that the E-cat should
> work continuously for at least 48 hours- and it didn't. The heating of
> n office with an E-cat for 2 years is fairy tales for adults.
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Peter Gluck
> Cluj, Romania
> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
>
>

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Terry Blanton]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Mary Yugo  wrote:

> Anyone know when the countdown to this event started?   Just curious when to
> look for it.

A week from Monday.

T

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Mary Yugo]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 10:29 AM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> Funny that they use the term "The Three Musketeers of Cold Fusion" in
> the caption of the first picture.
>

Maybe because someone's nose is lengthening?

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2011-11-20 19:26, Mary Yugo wrote:


Anyone know when the countdown to this event started?   Just curious
when to look for it.


On November 14th DGT announced: "We will release a complete outline of 
our developments within the next two weeks".


http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/DGT_PRESS%20RELEASE_2011-11-14.pdf

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:


> Jed, it seems there was a point in the contract, that the E-cat should
> work continuously for at least 48 hours- and it didn't.


Ah. You refer to the Sept. 6 test done by "Quantum engineers and NASA, but
which fails due to leakage." Yes, Rossi's prototype equipment often fails
because of leakage or some unknown problem. Defkalion says their reactors
are more reliable.



> The heating of
> n office with an E-cat for 2 years is fairy tales for adults.
>

Except that someone recently mailed me photos of the damn thing, with
people I know standing around it, and test data. Plus Focardi and others
say they saw it running several times. So it is not a fairly tale. Every
indication is that it is true.

As I said, I have never caught Rossi telling a lie about any engineering
technical claim. No skeptic has caught him, either, as far as I know. All
of their examples of lies are their own misunderstandings. He says things
about theory and transmutation that may not be true, but I would not call
those statements "lies." I think he does not know much about theory. Since
I know nothing, I cannot judge.

As I mentioned, I am trying to get permission to upload those photos. It
might help smooth the way for me to do that if people here would tone down
these rabid accusations of fraud, made without a shred of evidence. It
poisons the atmosphere. Expressing doubts is fine, but out-and-out
accusations and calls by certain unnamed people to have Rossi arrested and
deported are . . . unhelpful.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Peter Gluck]

November 14, take a look to the Defkalion Forum.
http://www.defkalion-energy.com/files/DGT_PRESS%20RELEASE_2011-11-14.pdf


On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Mary Yugo  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Akira Shirakawa <
> shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We might know if it's really the case in about two weeks of time
>> (Defkalion GT announcement).
>>
>
> Anyone know when the countdown to this event started?   Just curious when
> to look for it.
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Terry Blanton]

Funny that they use the term "The Three Musketeers of Cold Fusion" in
the caption of the first picture.  That is what I called Jed Rothwell,
Eugene Mallove and Chris Tinsley back in the day.

T

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Terry Blanton]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:24 PM, Akira Shirakawa
 wrote:
> On 2011-11-20 19:15, Terry Blanton wrote:
>
>> Consider the possibility that, having failed in the deal with Rossi,
>> Defkalion made a deal with Piantelli.
>
> Interesting speculation. We might know if it's really the case in about two
> weeks of time (Defkalion GT announcement). It would be a tragicomic turn of
> events for Rossi if it is.

If you check the name of the image in the article, it is:

Piantelli-engine[1].jpg

So, they know what they are showing.

Rossi is going to be sooo pissed off!

T

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Mary Yugo]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Akira Shirakawa  wrote:

We might know if it's really the case in about two weeks of time (Defkalion
> GT announcement).
>

Anyone know when the countdown to this event started?   Just curious when
to look for it.

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2011-11-20 19:15, Terry Blanton wrote:


Consider the possibility that, having failed in the deal with Rossi,
Defkalion made a deal with Piantelli.


Interesting speculation. We might know if it's really the case in about 
two weeks of time (Defkalion GT announcement). It would be a tragicomic 
turn of events for Rossi if it is.


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Terry Blanton]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Mary Yugo  wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Akira Shirakawa 
> wrote:
>>
>> It looks like the very same one to me ... Same photo.
>
>
> Thanks!  That issue is resolved!
>
> So what does it have to do with Defkalion other than to puff up the
> publication's piece?  Anyone know?

Consider the possibility that, having failed in the deal with Rossi,
Defkalion made a deal with Piantelli.

Just sayin'.

T

RE: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Robert Leguillon]

The article mentions Piantelli's new patent. I would assume that the author ran 
across the photo during that aspect of research, and failed to properly 
attribute it to Piantelli's nickel production.

Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 10:08:08 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek
From: maryyu...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com



On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Akira Shirakawa  
wrote:



It looks like the very same one to me ... Same photo.
 
Thanks!  That issue is resolved! 

So what does it have to do with Defkalion other than to puff up the 
publication's piece?  Anyone know?

  

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Mary Yugo]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Akira Shirakawa
wrote:

>
> It looks like the very same one to me ... Same photo.
>

Thanks!  That issue is resolved!

So what does it have to do with Defkalion other than to puff up the
publication's piece?  Anyone know?

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Peter Gluck]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Peter Gluck  wrote:
>
> They are technologically skilled, good engineers and have refused
>> to pay for an immature and unsafe product.
>>
>
> Who are they? Who refused to pay, for what?
>
> I don't see that in the article.
>
> This translation is remarkably good, for a machine. A little hard to
> follow in places.
>
> - Jed
>
> Jed, it seems there was a point in the contract, that the E-cat should
work continuously for at least 48 hours- and it didn't. The heating of
n office with an E-cat for 2 years is fairy tales for adults.


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2011-11-20 18:44, Peter Gluck wrote:

The test chamber is indeed very similar to Piantelli's high vacuum
installation of Molecular Beam Epitaxy (see my 3rd paper abou Piantelli
in my Blog).


It looks like the very same one to me:
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2008/29img/PiantelliKnudsenMachineW.jpg

From http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2008/NET29-8dd54geg.shtml

Also look here: 
http://www.consulente-energia.com/fusione-fredda-nichenergy-srl-siena-piantelli-azionariato-diffuso-roy-virgilio.html


Same photo.

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Jed Rothwell]

Mary Yugo  wrote:


> So it's inappropriate for Defkalion (or the magazine article writers) to
> make use of it without attribution.
>

I expect a copy editor misplaced the caption. You should not make
accusations of nefarious behavior every time a magazine makes a minor error.



> It's also inappropriate to suggest it has something to do with what
> Defkalion made unless they provide evidence that it's something they used.
> It looks like "puffery".  And of the two other images . . .
>

It is not puffery, whatever that is. It is lab equipment. The average
reader would not know what it is, or whether it is expensive equipment or
bathroom plumbing.

Regarding Italian bathroom plumbing, see the movie Bread and Tulips. A
sweet comedy including an Italian plumbing equipment supplier who really
wants to be a private eye.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Peter Gluck]

The test chamber is indeed very similar to Piantelli's high vacuum
installation of Molecular Beam Epitaxy (see my 3rd paper abou Piantelli in
my Blog).
The Greek installation is: " The engine configuration of the grains
of Nickel in vacuum" i.e. has the same function- manufacture of Ni
nanoclusters. Translation a bit surrrealistic but it is clearly the
installation for manufacture of the fuel. Or one of them.
Peter

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> Terry Blanton  wrote:
>
>
>> Did you see the test chamber at the end of the article?
>>
>
> That looks like one of Piantelli's experiments. Not sure, but I think
> that's what it is.
>
> - Jed
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Jed Rothwell]

Akira Shirakawa  wrote:


> I think that is a photograph of the very expensive equipment Piantelli
> uses to make his nickel powder. I remember seeing that somewhere else.
>

Powder, or bulk Pd?

I have some similar photos from Piantelli taken many years ago. This is the
kind of professional grade equipment he uses. It is paid for by an
automobile company R&D department. I do not recall which one.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Mary Yugo]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:34 AM, Akira Shirakawa
wrote:

> On 2011-11-20 18:30, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
>  That looks like one of Piantelli's experiments. Not sure, but I think
>> that's what it is.
>>
>
> I think that is a photograph of the very expensive equipment Piantelli
> uses to make his nickel powder. I remember seeing that somewhere else.
>

So it's inappropriate for Defkalion (or the magazine article writers) to
make use of it without attribution. It's also inappropriate to suggest it
has something to do with what Defkalion made unless they provide evidence
that it's something they used.  It looks like "puffery".  And of the two
other images, one looks like a CAD drawing and the other appears to have
been photoshopped.  Not encouraging.

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Jed Rothwell]

Peter Gluck  wrote:

They are technologically skilled, good engineers and have refused
> to pay for an immature and unsafe product.
>

Who are they? Who refused to pay, for what?

I don't see that in the article.

This translation is remarkably good, for a machine. A little hard to follow
in places.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2011-11-20 18:30, Jed Rothwell wrote:


That looks like one of Piantelli's experiments. Not sure, but I think
that's what it is.


I think that is a photograph of the very expensive equipment Piantelli 
uses to make his nickel powder. I remember seeing that somewhere else.


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Peter Gluck]

They are technologically skilled, good engineers and have refused
to pay for an immature and unsafe product.
Excess heat is only a necessary, but not a sufficient condition for an
Energy Source. Rossi's E-cat has worked (was functional) but did not worked
well.
Defkalion, it seems, has defined the problem and has worked out
their own solution.
If other customers accept to buy immature products- it is their decision
and has some logic in it. And risks too.

Peter

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:15 PM, Aussie Guy E-Cat
wrote:

> It says they had $15 million ready but Rossi did not complete the
> contract. That means they never paid Rossi the money and now they seem to
> be claiming the technology is all theirs.
>
> "- *So the rift between you was not due only to non-payment of first
> installment repayment, said Mr. Rossi?*
>
> /"Not sure./ /We had finished the 15 million dollars of first dose, but
> Mr. Rossi did not sign the protocol of receipt, asking him to meet
> parameters such as the stable operation of the device for at least 48
> hours./ /This was the real cause of the interruption of cooperation, but
> not celebrated in the media because they want to continue a deleterious
> confrontation./ /Us us interested in real progress, and this success./ /The
> technology will present a few days the world will be entirely Greek and
> appreciate its contribution to the overthrow of what exists in the energy
> market. "/"
>
>
> AG
>
>
>
> On 11/21/2011 3:22 AM, Mary Yugo wrote:
>
>> Original URL: 
>> http://www.tovima.gr/science/**article/?aid=430840
>>
>> Somewhat garbled Google translate: *http://tinyurl.com/6mszlt4*
>>
>>
>> So they claim they paid Rossi $15 million if I understand it right. If
>> it's true, he should have been able to fund U of B research for some time
>> and he did not need to sell his house.  It's a big "if", of course.
>>
>
>


-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Jed Rothwell]

Terry Blanton  wrote:


> Did you see the test chamber at the end of the article?
>

That looks like one of Piantelli's experiments. Not sure, but I think
that's what it is.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Mary Yugo]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Mary Yugo  wrote:
> > Original URL:   http://www.tovima.gr/science/article/?aid=430840
> >
> > Somewhat garbled Google translate:  http://tinyurl.com/6mszlt4
>
> Did you see the test chamber at the end of the article?
>
>
Yes!  It's really cool and I want one.  However they don't say what it is
or does.  Could it be from an entirely unrelated project or source?  Maybe
someone will recognize it?

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Daniel Rocha]

There is also the part about the escrow account.

2011/11/20 Mary Yugo 

> Original URL:   http://www.tovima.gr/science/article/?aid=430840
>
> Somewhat garbled Google translate:  
> *http://tinyurl.com/6mszlt4*
>
> So they claim they paid Rossi $15 million if I understand it right. If
> it's true, he should have been able to fund U of B research for some time
> and he did not need to sell his house.  It's a big "if", of course.
>

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Terry Blanton]

On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Mary Yugo  wrote:
> Original URL:   http://www.tovima.gr/science/article/?aid=430840
>
> Somewhat garbled Google translate:  http://tinyurl.com/6mszlt4

Did you see the test chamber at the end of the article?

T

Re: [Vo]:A new article mostly about Defkalion in Greek

[Aussie Guy E-Cat]

It says they had $15 million ready but Rossi did not complete the 
contract. That means they never paid Rossi the money and now they seem 
to be claiming the technology is all theirs.


"- *So the rift between you was not due only to non-payment of first 
installment repayment, said Mr. Rossi?*


/"Not sure./ /We had finished the 15 million dollars of first dose, but 
Mr. Rossi did not sign the protocol of receipt, asking him to meet 
parameters such as the stable operation of the device for at least 48 
hours./ /This was the real cause of the interruption of cooperation, but 
not celebrated in the media because they want to continue a deleterious 
confrontation./ /Us us interested in real progress, and this success./ 
/The technology will present a few days the world will be entirely Greek 
and appreciate its contribution to the overthrow of what exists in the 
energy market. "/"



AG


On 11/21/2011 3:22 AM, Mary Yugo wrote:

Original URL: http://www.tovima.gr/science/article/?aid=430840

Somewhat garbled Google translate: *http://tinyurl.com/6mszlt4*

So they claim they paid Rossi $15 million if I understand it right. If 
it's true, he should have been able to fund U of B research for some 
time and he did not need to sell his house.  It's a big "if", of course.