Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule
Umm . . . they spelled calibration wrong. It is unprofessional. Lugano Thermal Verification - Caibration
Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule
I am following their comments as best I can. If they are using a waveform cutting circuit such as with SCR's then the fundamental current will be shifted in time as compared to one that is not cut up. I would measure the RMS voltage at 60 hertz, and read the fundamental 60 hertz current. Then multiply these by the COS of the phase angle between them. It does not work to use the RMS values of these waveforms (including all harmonics) to obtain the product. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule There was a voltage multiplier set in the setup of the PCE that has been corrected. In-line measurements are being used to verify the setup of the PCE. I don't think they should be using the SCR controller - I would rather they use the variac. The load should be pretty much flat-on resistive for all of the harmonics. They are currently measuring a PF=1. The concerns with the SCR controller are asymmetric +/- switching and noise that could be introduced into the thermocouple channels. Painful to watch sometimes, yes; but they are working through it. I have a chat line open to them. On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 12:35 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The guys performing the test are being tricked by the phase shift between the current and the supply voltage. A triac controller will cause that to happen. Can someone contact them directly and let them know that this may be the hangup. It is painful to watch them chasing this problem. I can not get in touch with them directly. Thanks. Dave -Original Message- From: a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net To: Vortex-l Vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 11:55 am Subject: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule MFMP have laid out their schedule for testing the Rossi style high temperature E-Cat. DogBone Week, Live Now http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/mfmp-blog/446-dogbone-week-live-now Adrian Ashfield
Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule
There was a voltage multiplier set in the setup of the PCE that has been corrected. In-line measurements are being used to verify the setup of the PCE. I don't think they should be using the SCR controller - I would rather they use the variac. The load should be pretty much flat-on resistive for all of the harmonics. They are currently measuring a PF=1. The concerns with the SCR controller are asymmetric +/- switching and noise that could be introduced into the thermocouple channels. Painful to watch sometimes, yes; but they are working through it. I have a chat line open to them. On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 12:35 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The guys performing the test are being tricked by the phase shift between the current and the supply voltage. A triac controller will cause that to happen. Can someone contact them directly and let them know that this may be the hangup. It is painful to watch them chasing this problem. I can not get in touch with them directly. Thanks. Dave -Original Message- From: a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net To: Vortex-l Vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 11:55 am Subject: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule MFMP have laid out their schedule for testing the Rossi style high temperature E-Cat. *DogBone Week, Live Now* http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/mfmp-blog/446-dogbone-week-live-now Adrian Ashfield
Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule
The PCE830 will take this into account for all of the harmonics automatically once it is setup properly. It should be a nearly perfectly resistive load until over 100kHz, which makes it only a small problem with using the inline meters. Once they have the PCE setup properly, then they are in good shape. They have the option to put the SCR controller into zero-crossing mode (which they should do if they use it). However, now they are now switching to using the variac as the source. Then it gets much simpler. On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:00 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I am following their comments as best I can. If they are using a waveform cutting circuit such as with SCR's then the fundamental current will be shifted in time as compared to one that is not cut up. I would measure the RMS voltage at 60 hertz, and read the fundamental 60 hertz current. Then multiply these by the COS of the phase angle between them. It does not work to use the RMS values of these waveforms (including all harmonics) to obtain the product. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule There was a voltage multiplier set in the setup of the PCE that has been corrected. In-line measurements are being used to verify the setup of the PCE. I don't think they should be using the SCR controller - I would rather they use the variac. The load should be pretty much flat-on resistive for all of the harmonics. They are currently measuring a PF=1. The concerns with the SCR controller are asymmetric +/- switching and noise that could be introduced into the thermocouple channels. Painful to watch sometimes, yes; but they are working through it. I have a chat line open to them. On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 12:35 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The guys performing the test are being tricked by the phase shift between the current and the supply voltage. A triac controller will cause that to happen. Can someone contact them directly and let them know that this may be the hangup. It is painful to watch them chasing this problem. I can not get in touch with them directly. Thanks. Dave -Original Message- From: a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net To: Vortex-l Vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 11:55 am Subject: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule MFMP have laid out their schedule for testing the Rossi style high temperature E-Cat. *DogBone Week, Live Now* http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/mfmp-blog/446-dogbone-week-live-now Adrian Ashfield
Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule
The guys performing the test are being tricked by the phase shift between the current and the supply voltage. A triac controller will cause that to happen. Can someone contact them directly and let them know that this may be the hangup. It is painful to watch them chasing this problem. I can not get in touch with them directly. Thanks. Dave -Original Message- From: a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net To: Vortex-l Vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 11:55 am Subject: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule MFMP have laid out their schedule for testing the Rossi style high temperature E-Cat. DogBone Week, Live Now http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/mfmp-blog/446-dogbone-week-live-now Adrian Ashfield
Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule
They should celebrate their spell checker. On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Umm . . . they spelled calibration wrong. It is unprofessional. Lugano Thermal Verification - Caibration
Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule
The variac is the best way to be sure of the results. Another alternative would be to measure the RMS current and square that and multiply by the load resisance. Even a chopped waveform will give accurate results with that method. The PCE830 is designed to take that into consideration unless it is of little value. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 3:06 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule The PCE830 will take this into account for all of the harmonics automatically once it is setup properly. It should be a nearly perfectly resistive load until over 100kHz, which makes it only a small problem with using the inline meters. Once they have the PCE setup properly, then they are in good shape. They have the option to put the SCR controller into zero-crossing mode (which they should do if they use it). However, now they are now switching to using the variac as the source. Then it gets much simpler. On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:00 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I am following their comments as best I can. If they are using a waveform cutting circuit such as with SCR's then the fundamental current will be shifted in time as compared to one that is not cut up. I would measure the RMS voltage at 60 hertz, and read the fundamental 60 hertz current. Then multiply these by the COS of the phase angle between them. It does not work to use the RMS values of these waveforms (including all harmonics) to obtain the product. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 2:55 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule There was a voltage multiplier set in the setup of the PCE that has been corrected. In-line measurements are being used to verify the setup of the PCE. I don't think they should be using the SCR controller - I would rather they use the variac. The load should be pretty much flat-on resistive for all of the harmonics. They are currently measuring a PF=1. The concerns with the SCR controller are asymmetric +/- switching and noise that could be introduced into the thermocouple channels. Painful to watch sometimes, yes; but they are working through it. I have a chat line open to them. On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 12:35 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The guys performing the test are being tricked by the phase shift between the current and the supply voltage. A triac controller will cause that to happen. Can someone contact them directly and let them know that this may be the hangup. It is painful to watch them chasing this problem. I can not get in touch with them directly. Thanks. Dave -Original Message- From: a.ashfield a.ashfi...@verizon.net To: Vortex-l Vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 11:55 am Subject: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule MFMP have laid out their schedule for testing the Rossi style high temperature E-Cat. DogBone Week, Live Now http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/en/home/mfmp-blog/446-dogbone-week-live-now Adrian Ashfield
Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule
If only it could be that simple ... the wire resistance is changing as a function of temperature. For the Kanthal A1 wire, it is not changing too much though. But it is still a good and easy sanity check measurement. Bob On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:16 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The variac is the best way to be sure of the results. Another alternative would be to measure the RMS current and square that and multiply by the load resisance. Even a chopped waveform will give accurate results with that method. The PCE830 is designed to take that into consideration unless it is of little value. Dave
Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule
Good point Bob. I always like to have sanity checks to back up main, important measurements. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Feb 3, 2015 4:09 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:MFMP testing schedule If only it could be that simple ... the wire resistance is changing as a function of temperature. For the Kanthal A1 wire, it is not changing too much though. But it is still a good and easy sanity check measurement. Bob On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:16 PM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: The variac is the best way to be sure of the results. Another alternative would be to measure the RMS current and square that and multiply by the load resisance. Even a chopped waveform will give accurate results with that method. The PCE830 is designed to take that into consideration unless it is of little value. Dave
