Re: [Vo]:The Eight Hour Rule
Von: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com --- To make a long story short: EROI 20 Duration 6 months with energy-decay 1 to 0.5 Price 'reasonable' are the the lower-boundary conditions for a -ahem- disruptive technology.
Re: [Vo]:The Eight Hour Rule
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Jed, as I'm sure you are aware, Jones has been quite vocal with his prediction that Rossi's e-cats (at least the e-cats we've seen so far) will eventually be discovered to go quiescent in approximately 8 hours after being turned on. I do not know where Jones got this from. I have not heard it from Rossi or anyone else working with Ni-H. Rossi said it goes bananas after some period of time. It goes out of control. Whatever that means. He did not say it turns off and he cannot restart it. Neither did Forcard or Levi or any of the others who have observed his reactors for days or weeks. There is no doubt it can run indefinitely with input power. Levi observed an 18-hour run. Others have seen much longer ones. I don't see what the problem is here. As long as you can make this thing run *with* power, who cares if there is some limitation that makes it stop after 8-hours in self-sustaining mode? If it explodes after 8 hours that's a problem! But so what if it turns off? Just run it with power input. It seems Defkalion is doing that. Input power is only a fraction of output, so it does not matter. Defkalion's ratio is presently 20, they say. I'm sure with some more engineering they can make any ratio they want. I do not understand why Rossi and his customer (?) wanted to run the big reactor in self-sustaining mode in October. I guess they had their reasons. Meanwhile, we know that Rossi has claimed (boasted?) that he has had his e-cats warming a factory for a solid year... or something to that effect. However, as we all know, it would be unwise to take Rossi's word considering how creative he can be with his use of words. Yeah. It's an itty-bitty space heater at the EON Factory. The address is in the patent. I had some difficulty believing that. Then Forcardi talked about going to the factory and seeing the gadget, in one of his interviews. I heard that and thought, maybe it's true after all. Then a Reliable Source sent me a photo of the gadget, with some technical details, such as the fact that it ran continuously during the winter of 2008-2009, producing between 5 and 8 kW. I asked permission to upload this document, but so far, no dice. I have no reason to doubt this is real, and the heater did run continuously for months. I realize the noisy skeptics would say I have many reasons to doubt it. For me . . . I imagine myself a well-informed aviation enthusiast in 1905. Some friends come by and show me photos from their recent visit to Dayton, such as this one: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bobwolfe/genbob/1905WrightFlight41.jpg They say, yeah we saw it fly a good 50 feet in the air for 20 minutes. I know these people to be experts in aviation. I have no doubt that the Wrights and others have flown. I have seen other people make uncontrolled glider flights, such as this guy: http://www.flyingmachines.org/lilthl.html I think under those circumstances back in 1905 I would be crazy to doubt what my friends tell me. There is simply no rational reason to think my friends are crazy, deluded or fooled, or that they are conspiring to fool me. I do not see any significant difference between that situation and this one. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The Eight Hour Rule
Maybe that month long duration is like Piantelli's long runs. They cannot be reliably repeated. So, while that heater may be true, Rossi cannot reproduce that so easily. 2012/1/24 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Jed, as I'm sure you are aware, Jones has been quite vocal with his prediction that Rossi's e-cats (at least the e-cats we've seen so far) will eventually be discovered to go quiescent in approximately 8 hours after being turned on. I do not know where Jones got this from. I have not heard it from Rossi or anyone else working with Ni-H. Rossi said it goes bananas after some period of time. It goes out of control. Whatever that means. He did not say it turns off and he cannot restart it. Neither did Forcard or Levi or any of the others who have observed his reactors for days or weeks. There is no doubt it can run indefinitely with input power. Levi observed an 18-hour run. Others have seen much longer ones. I don't see what the problem is here. As long as you can make this thing run *with* power, who cares if there is some limitation that makes it stop after 8-hours in self-sustaining mode? If it explodes after 8 hours that's a problem! But so what if it turns off? Just run it with power input. It seems Defkalion is doing that. Input power is only a fraction of output, so it does not matter. Defkalion's ratio is presently 20, they say. I'm sure with some more engineering they can make any ratio they want. I do not understand why Rossi and his customer (?) wanted to run the big reactor in self-sustaining mode in October. I guess they had their reasons. Meanwhile, we know that Rossi has claimed (boasted?) that he has had his e-cats warming a factory for a solid year... or something to that effect. However, as we all know, it would be unwise to take Rossi's word considering how creative he can be with his use of words. Yeah. It's an itty-bitty space heater at the EON Factory. The address is in the patent. I had some difficulty believing that. Then Forcardi talked about going to the factory and seeing the gadget, in one of his interviews. I heard that and thought, maybe it's true after all. Then a Reliable Source sent me a photo of the gadget, with some technical details, such as the fact that it ran continuously during the winter of 2008-2009, producing between 5 and 8 kW. I asked permission to upload this document, but so far, no dice. I have no reason to doubt this is real, and the heater did run continuously for months. I realize the noisy skeptics would say I have many reasons to doubt it. For me . . . I imagine myself a well-informed aviation enthusiast in 1905. Some friends come by and show me photos from their recent visit to Dayton, such as this one: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bobwolfe/genbob/1905WrightFlight41.jpg They say, yeah we saw it fly a good 50 feet in the air for 20 minutes. I know these people to be experts in aviation. I have no doubt that the Wrights and others have flown. I have seen other people make uncontrolled glider flights, such as this guy: http://www.flyingmachines.org/lilthl.html I think under those circumstances back in 1905 I would be crazy to doubt what my friends tell me. There is simply no rational reason to think my friends are crazy, deluded or fooled, or that they are conspiring to fool me. I do not see any significant difference between that situation and this one. - Jed -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:The Eight Hour Rule
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah. It's an itty-bitty space heater at the EON Factory. The address is in the patent. I had some difficulty believing that. Then Forcardi talked about going to the factory and seeing the gadget, in one of his interviews. I heard that and thought, maybe it's true after all. Then a Reliable Source sent me a photo of the gadget, with some technical details, such as the fact that it ran continuously during the winter of 2008-2009, producing between 5 and 8 kW. I asked permission to upload this document, but so far, no dice. I have no reason to doubt this is real, and the heater did run continuously for months. I realize the noisy skeptics would say I have many reasons to doubt it. For me . . . I imagine myself a well-informed aviation enthusiast in 1905. Some friends come by and show me photos from their recent visit to Dayton, such as this one: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bobwolfe/genbob/1905WrightFlight41.jpg They say, yeah we saw it fly a good 50 feet in the air for 20 minutes. I know these people to be experts in aviation. I have no doubt that the Wrights and others have flown. I have seen other people make uncontrolled glider flights, such as this guy: http://www.flyingmachines.org/lilthl.html I think under those circumstances back in 1905 I would be crazy to doubt what my friends tell me. There is simply no rational reason to think my friends are crazy, deluded or fooled, or that they are conspiring to fool me. I do not see any significant difference between that situation and this one. Were the Wright brother keeping everything secret, so that your hypothetical friends of 1905 would have told you not to publish the details? harry Harry
Re: [Vo]:The Eight Hour Rule
Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Were the Wright brother keeping everything secret . . . Yes, they were. About as secret as Rossi is, and for the same reason: intellectual property. They did not get a patent until 1906, and in 1905 they had already made improvements which they hoped to include in a new patent application. They asked people not to take close-up photos. The patent laws were somewhat different back then, and premature disclosure was more of a problem for the inventor. . . . so that your hypothetical friends of 1905 would have told you not to publish the details? That is what happened. The fact that Wrights were flying was not secret to people who followed aviation, but the technical details were skimpy. The mass media did not believe a word of it. Similar circumstances have reoccurred often in modern history, but this is example is particularly close. So close it is uncanny. It often happens that people try to withhold information on scientific or technological breakthroughs. That part is not unusual. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The Eight Hour Rule
True. But you can actually observe flight. Sombody who saw Rossi's Gadget heating his Office in Ferrara would have no idea whether it really works or not, unless they have measured it in some way. There would have been no such uncertainty with somebody whitnessing the Wrights or Lilienthal take off. Von: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 3:47 Mittwoch, 25.Januar 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:The Eight Hour Rule Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote: Were the Wright brother keeping everything secret . . . Yes, they were. About as secret as Rossi is, and for the same reason: intellectual property. They did not get a patent until 1906, and in 1905 they had already made improvements which they hoped to include in a new patent application. They asked people not to take close-up photos. The patent laws were somewhat different back then, and premature disclosure was more of a problem for the inventor. . . . so that your hypothetical friends of 1905 would have told you not to publish the details? That is what happened. The fact that Wrights were flying was not secret to people who followed aviation, but the technical details were skimpy. The mass media did not believe a word of it. Similar circumstances have reoccurred often in modern history, but this is example is particularly close. So close it is uncanny. It often happens that people try to withhold information on scientific or technological breakthroughs. That part is not unusual. - Jed
