Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
Quoting Jay Strauss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): What's the drawback of just using the java installer/binary from java.sun.com? I don't really need the apt advantages Distributions' packagers perform valuable quality control and distro-specific porting. E.g., all the pieces land where they're supposed to, and interact with the system in accordance with its policy. Given that you're a Debian guy, I imagine you're aware of the importance of policy. ;- Also, this ensures that the software is known to your software-registration system. (That has nothing to do with apt. It would apply equally well if you used carrier pigeons, floppy disks, and dpkg -i.) I wouldn't want java just updated automatically when I do apt-get upgrade anyway. If software that uses it is likewise known to the software-registration system, you most certainly (logically) would. However, having the package (thus) known to the software-registration system doesn't mean it need be updated automatically unless you want it to: You may want to look up how to set package hold status using dpkg, dselect, etc. Locally installing software (/usr/local, /opt -- i.e., not under software-tracking) when you don't have to strikes me as a ghastly mistake, generally, and I'm sure more reasons than I've cited above will occur to you. If you're stuck, read my EBLUG-talk slides on http://linuxmafia.com/presentations/ , and note the lessons drawn from the tcp-wrappers-7.6.tar.gz trojaning in 1999, for one reason. ;- -- Cheers, Hardware: The part you kick. Rick MoenSoftware: The part you boot. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Ken Bloom ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): On Debian, the best way to install Java is to download the binary installer and then use make-jpkg from java-package to create .debs of Java that do the right thing. For Java2 v. 1.5. If you're content with 1.4 for now, try using this as an apt source: # Sun Java J2r1.4 deb ftp://ftp.tux.org/pub/java/debian woody non-free Looks like they moved it to: deb ftp://ftp.tux.org/java/debian/ sarge non-free and since I'm on sarge, I'll use that. Thanks Jay ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
If you're stuck, read my EBLUG-talk slides on http://linuxmafia.com/presentations/ , and note the lessons drawn from the tcp-wrappers-7.6.tar.gz trojaning in 1999, for one reason. ;- I'm gonna read it tonight Thanks Jay ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
Quoting Jay Strauss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): If you're stuck, read my EBLUG-talk slides on http://linuxmafia.com/presentations/ , and note the lessons drawn from the tcp-wrappers-7.6.tar.gz trojaning in 1999, for one reason. ;- I'm gonna read it tonight Thanks You're welcome, but I feel a bit bad that, being just slides, a lot of that's going to seem cryptic. (Actually, this being the first set of presentation slides I've ever created in my life, I screwed them up by making them too verbose by about a factor of three, but they'll still be cryptic, anyway. :( ) Essentially, having finished back in November cataloguing and analysing[1] all of the highly diverse stuff claimed, here and there, to be Linux malware, I sat down and gave the subject a good mulling over: Most of the attack threats were pretty laughable, or were not attacks per se but rather post-attack tools used by bad guys who broke into your system by other means entirely. However, I stopped and thought: That bit aside, if I were one of the bad guys, how and where would I deploy Linux malware (especially trojans) to actually affect systems? Moreover, has it ever been thus deployed with even partial success, and where? Moreover^2, to the extent that such deployments have never taken off, what mechanisms, social or technical, have prevented that? One of the things I examined was the site compromise and trojaning of several ftp/Web sites over the years. Those sites were ones offering public download of source tarballs, of both security-sensitive packages (e.g., tcp-wrappers, util-linux, the Linux kernel as offered on the BK-CVS gateway host, network tools on monkey.org) and less so (e.g., the irssi IRC client). I noticed that all of these were compromises of source code at the upstream maintainer sites, i.e., that distros' packages were _not_ compromised. That turned out to be significant -- and no accident. Weise Venema's TCP Wrappers package got trojaned in 1999 on what was then its main source hosting site, a well-known public ftp server at Eindhoven University in the Netherlands (ftp.win.tue.nl). Someone covertly root-compromised the host, and then posted a trojaned, phoney tcp-wrappers-7.6.tar.gz in the ftp directory. About fifty people downloaded that file in the first few hours after its release, suspected nothing, and presumably wrecked their systems (installing a backdoor for the bad guy). Approximately the fifty-first was Andrew Brown of Crossbar Security, who was alert enough to say to himself Hey, how come _this_ release of TCP Wrappers isn't PGP-signed? He raised the alarm, and the fifty-odd prior downloaders were notified by mail. One of the things that downstream package maintainers for distros do for you, if they're on the ball at all, is to be at least as alert and constructively paranoid and Andrew Brown was. They're an additional check against _both_ quality problems and security compromise, between you and various sorts of harm. You should make use of that protection (and other advantages, such as distro-specific patches) preferentially, and be aware of the need to perform personally the same sort of checks (e.g., meaningfully verifying PGP signatures and md5sums) and distro-specific adjustments, whenever you elect to go outside the package system. So, that's about two of my slides out of the 34 total that should now be a little less cryptic. ;- [1] http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=virus#virus5 -- Cheers, Hardware: The part you kick. Rick MoenSoftware: The part you boot. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
Correcting my typo: One of the things that downstream package maintainers for distros do for you, if they're on the ball at all, is to be at least as alert and constructively paranoid and Andrew Brown was. ^^^ as. Screwed up one of my main points. Figures. ;- ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
[vox-tech] Accessing cdrom from Tom's Root Boot
I'm trying to build a LuMiX box; the distribution comes as a big tar file on a CD. I've got Tom's Root Boot on a floppy, and I've used it to hose the NT partition that was already on the HD, and I've already created my Linux partitions and my swap partition. I now want to copy the tar file from the cdrom to /dev/hda1. Unfortunately I can't seem to figure out how to get to the cdrom drive. I imagine that when I booted the computer, it detected the cdrom drive somehow, but dmesg reveals nothing about it. I've tried to mount /dev/hdc through /dev/hde to /cdrom, but I've had no luck. The message I receive is: # mount -a mount: the kernel does not recognize /dev/hdc as a block device (maybe 'insmod driver'?) The relevant entry in /etc/fstab looks like this: /dev/hdc /cdrom iso9660 1 1 What am I missing? I've never done an installation like this; these newfangled distributions like FC3 and even Debian make everything too easy. -- Richard S. Crawford (mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) AIM: Buffalo2K / http://www.mossroot.com You can't depend on your judgment when your imagination is out of focus. -Mark Twain ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Accessing cdrom from Tom's Root Boot
On Thu 30 Dec 04, 10:58 AM, Richard S. Crawford [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I'm trying to build a LuMiX box; the distribution comes as a big tar file on a Unfortunately I can't seem to figure out how to get to the cdrom drive. I imagine that when I booted the computer, it detected the cdrom drive somehow, but dmesg reveals nothing about it. I've tried to mount /dev/hdc through /dev/hde to /cdrom, but I've had no luck. The message I receive is: # mount -a mount: the kernel does not recognize /dev/hdc as a block device (maybe 'insmod driver'?) The relevant entry in /etc/fstab looks like this: /dev/hdc /cdrom iso9660 1 1 What am I missing? I've never done an installation like this; these newfangled distributions like FC3 and even Debian make everything too easy. Hi Richard, Please post: dmesg | egrep '^hd[a-z]' Pete -- The mathematics of physics has become ever more abstract, rather than more complicated. The mind of God appears to be abstract but not complicated. He also appears to like group theory. -- Tony Zee's Fearful Symmetry GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Phoenix BIOS Blind Video Switch
På torsdag, 30 december 2004, skrev Peter Jay Salzman: [...] Also, I thought someone had asked this exact question on vox-tech a couple of years ago. Was it Henry House? Could be wrong. I asked about redirecting BIOS IO to the serial port at one point. The only solution to this turned out to be getting a non-i386 machine. :-( -- Henry House +1 530 753 3361 ext. 13 Please don't send me HTML mail! My mail system usually rejects it. The unintelligible text that may follow is a digital signature. See http://hajhouse.org/pgp to find out how to use it. My OpenPGP key: http://hajhouse.org/hajhouse.asc. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Phoenix BIOS Blind Video Switch
On Thu 30 Dec 04, 11:03 AM, Henry House [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: På torsdag, 30 december 2004, skrev Peter Jay Salzman: [...] Also, I thought someone had asked this exact question on vox-tech a couple of years ago. Was it Henry House? Could be wrong. I asked about redirecting BIOS IO to the serial port at one point. The only solution to this turned out to be getting a non-i386 machine. :-( Ah, yeah. That's what I was thinking of. I remember putting brain power into a similar question, but couldn't remember what the question actually was. :-P Pete -- The mathematics of physics has become ever more abstract, rather than more complicated. The mind of God appears to be abstract but not complicated. He also appears to like group theory. -- Tony Zee's Fearful Symmetry GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
[vox-tech] Running Multiple Distros
I have two questions about running more than one Linux distribution on a single machine. #1: Does the existence of a separate partition for /home mean that it is not practical to run more than one Linux distribution on a machine? I have SuSE on one partition, and I have space allocated for another distro. But my home directory is on still another partition. When certain programs are run they put hidden files and directories in /home. For example .kde is a directory containing many subdirectories and some files. If I install Debian in my spare partition, will the programs in Debian insert hidden configuration files that will break SuSE's connection to it's configuration files in /home. Will Debian's .kde break SuSE's connection with the .kde that KDE installed when it was originally started in SuSE? #2 Suppose the answer to #1 is that the second distro will break the first distro's connection to it's configuration files in /home. Will there still be a problem if I install the same version of SuSE in the spare partition? Suppose, for example, that I want a duplicate version of SuSE in which to experiment with configuring files and compiling programs so that if I blow the system, I can still run the original SuSE system. Thank you. Bob ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
trusting downloaded code (was: [vox-tech] Installing Java)
På torsdag, 30 december 2004, skrev Rick Moen: [...] One of the things that downstream package maintainers for distros do for you, if they're on the ball at all, is to be at least as alert and constructively paranoid and Andrew Brown was. They're an additional check against _both_ quality problems and security compromise, between you and various sorts of harm. You should make use of that protection (and other advantages, such as distro-specific patches) preferentially, and be aware of the need to perform personally the same sort of checks (e.g., meaningfully verifying PGP signatures and md5sums) and distro-specific adjustments, whenever you elect to go outside the package system. I've occasionally speculated that it would be really useful for distributions to provide a package containing all the public keys used by upstram maintainers (e.g., kernel.org) to sign releases. There is no guarantee that when I download Foo Group GmBH's latest tarball and PGP key from their FTP server, then verify the former against the latter, that I have not downloaded a compromised tarball AND conpromised PGP key. Thoughts? -- Henry House +1 530 753 3361 ext. 13 Please don't send me HTML mail! My mail system usually rejects it. The unintelligible text that may follow is a digital signature. See http://hajhouse.org/pgp to find out how to use it. My OpenPGP key: http://hajhouse.org/hajhouse.asc. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Accessing cdrom from Tom's Root Boot
På torsdag, 30 december 2004, skrev Richard S. Crawford: I'm trying to build a LuMiX box; the distribution comes as a big tar file on a CD. I've got Tom's Root Boot on a floppy, and I've used it to hose the NT partition that was already on the HD, and I've already created my Linux partitions and my swap partition. I now want to copy the tar file from the cdrom to /dev/hda1. Unfortunately I can't seem to figure out how to get to the cdrom drive. I imagine that when I booted the computer, it detected the cdrom drive somehow, but dmesg reveals nothing about it. I've tried to mount /dev/hdc through /dev/hde to /cdrom, but I've had no luck. The message I receive is: # mount -a mount: the kernel does not recognize /dev/hdc as a block device (maybe 'insmod driver'?) The relevant entry in /etc/fstab looks like this: /dev/hdc /cdrom iso9660 1 1 What am I missing? I've never done an installation like this; these newfangled distributions like FC3 and even Debian make everything too easy. Try: - modprobe ide-cd - modprobe cdrom -- Henry House +1 530 753 3361 ext. 13 Please don't send me HTML mail! My mail system usually rejects it. The unintelligible text that may follow is a digital signature. See http://hajhouse.org/pgp to find out how to use it. My OpenPGP key: http://hajhouse.org/hajhouse.asc. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Running Multiple Distros
On Thu 30 Dec 04, 11:11 AM, Robert G. Scofield [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I have two questions about running more than one Linux distribution on a single machine. #1: Does the existence of a separate partition for /home mean that it is not practical to run more than one Linux distribution on a machine? You prolly don't want to do this for exactly you suspect. Different programs will have different versions on the different distros. Different versions, different dotfiles. It's certainly not going to be a good scene. If you run two distros, you probably want different home directories. If you wanted to test out a distro, there's no crime in making a single partition system. It's definitely not what you want to use for your for reals system, but for the purposes of taking an OS out on a test drive, it's perfectly reasonable to do. #2 Suppose the answer to #1 is that the second distro will break the first distro's connection to it's configuration files in /home. Will there still be a problem if I install the same version of SuSE in the spare partition? Ummm... not really sure. Off the top of my head, I'd say it's OK. This is probably more than you want to do, but one trick that I've used in the past is to put my home directory files (but not dotfiles) into cvs. Whenever I'm at someone's house, I can securely pull anything from my home directory via CVS. If you've learned CVS from somewhere, it might not be a bad option to share your personal files between two operating systems. I understand there's something called LDAP which can do this too, but I don't know anything about LDAP. Pete -- The mathematics of physics has become ever more abstract, rather than more complicated. The mind of God appears to be abstract but not complicated. He also appears to like group theory. -- Tony Zee's Fearful Symmetry GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: trusting downloaded code (was: [vox-tech] Installing Java)
Quoting Henry House ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I've occasionally speculated that it would be really useful for distributions to provide a package containing all the public keys used by upstram maintainers (e.g., kernel.org) to sign releases. There is no guarantee that when I download Foo Group GmBH's latest tarball and PGP key from their FTP server, then verify the former against the latter, that I have not downloaded a compromised tarball AND conpromised PGP key. Thoughts? I suppose that would be useful. Debian, for example, could have package upstream-keyring to go along with their debian-keyring package that furnishes the gpg keys of all registered Debian developers. At the same time, they may see maintaining such a package (checking continually for revocations and compromises, etc.) as not their problem. Dunno. A more _standard_ (extant and functional) way you verify that a PGP/gpg key is valid is via signatures in that key (and absence of a revocation certificates) in the worldwide web of trust. Obviously, you would not _ever_ want to trust an upstream package _merely_ because it was accompanied by either J. Random PGP/gpg key or an MD5 sum, as any halfway competent intruder would fake those, too. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Running Multiple Distros
On Thursday 30 December 2004 11:21 am, Peter Jay Salzman wrote: On Thu 30 Dec 04, 11:11 AM, Robert G. Scofield [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I have two questions about running more than one Linux distribution on a single machine. #1: Does the existence of a separate partition for /home mean that it is not practical to run more than one Linux distribution on a machine? You prolly don't want to do this for exactly you suspect. Different programs will have different versions on the different distros. Different versions, different dotfiles. It's certainly not going to be a good scene. If you run two distros, you probably want different home directories. Hmm. The purpose of a home directory is to hold personal stuff, for example your mail, documents, browser bookmarks, contacts, development projects, VIM preferences, desktop preferences, etc. In theory each application should have its own unique dot- file, and be able to deal with compatibility issues across versions. In practice some apps might not handle version differences gracefully; for example I've had to blow away ~/.kde a couple of times in the past after upgrading KDE. So if what you want to do is work with different distribu- tions in the course of doing your normal tasks, then it should be OK to share the home directory - but after making a backup just in case! If you wanted to test out a distro, there's no crime in making a single partition system. It's definitely not what you want to use for your for reals system, but for the purposes of taking an OS out on a test drive, it's perfectly reasonable to do. For testing or rescue purposes, absolutely. #2 Suppose the answer to #1 is that the second distro will break the first distro's connection to it's configuration files in /home. Will there still be a problem if I install the same version of SuSE in the spare partition? Ummm... not really sure. Off the top of my head, I'd say it's OK. No problem, I do this kind of thing all the time. -- Rod ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Running Multiple Distros
Quoting Rod Roark ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): In theory each application should have its own unique dot- file, and be able to deal with compatibility issues across versions. In practice some apps might not handle version differences gracefully; for example I've had to blow away ~/.kde a couple of times in the past after upgrading KDE. It should be added that, even when newer versions of the software can deal gracefully with older versions' dotfiles, the reverse is very often _not_ the case -- because the developers anticipated people upgrading, but _not_ their going backwards. Therefore, with two distros sharing (e.g.) ~/.kde directories and having different k-app versions, the distro with older k-apps might get severe indigestion from your shared ~/.kde trees, even if the other doesn't. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Running Multiple Distros
On Thu 30 Dec 04, 12:22 PM, Rick Moen [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Quoting Robert G. Scofield ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Is there anyway to install a new distro on /dev/hdb3 and have it use a /home on /dev/hdb3? You betcha. Just assign the new distro's / (root directory) mountpoint to /dev/hdb3, and just avoid assigning mountpoint home to /dev/hdb7. Then, /home will live within /dev/hdb3 by default, rather than being on a separate filesystem. Exacly. I suspect this is the sort of thing that may be more difficult to explain in advance than it is to actually do. The solution is as simple as commenting out one line in /etc/fstab. If you have any doubts, go ahead and install SuSE on your blank partition. Try to get SuSE to mount /home on /dev/hdb3. If you can't figure it out, and SuSE *insists* on mounting /dev/hdb(whatever) as /home, no worries. Post back, and the instructions on fixing it the way you want will be very easy. Essentially, /etc/fstab is a very important file. You ask how can I have two home partitions on a single computer. The answer is that /etc/fstab tells the operating system about partitions. Anything that /etc/fstab doesn't tell the OS, the OS doesn't know about. If you make no reference to home on /dev/hdb7 in /etc/fstab for the new OS, the new OS won't even know it exists. BTW, if you wanted to try Debian, Debian lets you do whatever you want, transparently and easily. The downside is that the Debian installer (the one that comes with Debian) can be a little disconcerting if you're new to all this aych-dee-bee stuff. When I first saw the Sarge installer, those little icons made me pause for a second. ;) Pete -- The mathematics of physics has become ever more abstract, rather than more complicated. The mind of God appears to be abstract but not complicated. He also appears to like group theory. -- Tony Zee's Fearful Symmetry GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Accessing cdrom from Tom's Root Boot
On Thursday 30 December 2004 11:12, Henry House wrote: - modprobe ide-cd - modprobe cdrom # modprobe ide-cd modprobe: not found -- Richard S. Crawford (mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) AIM: Buffalo2K / http://www.mossroot.com You can't depend on your judgment when your imagination is out of focus. -Mark Twain ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
Jay, If you haven't already gotten the Blackdown thing from where Rick Moen said, you could try getting the RPM of JDK from Sun and converting it to deb with alien, then installing it. It worked nicely for me and I now have v1.5 , although you may prefer the Blackdown one anyway because it is apparently more free and certainly easier to install and maintain with apt. Also, when I used alien on the RPM of just JRE and then installed the plugins, they didn't work, I had to get JDK. So that is another option to consider, especially if you want v1.5 . Alien is useful because a lot of places will only distribute their proprietary distribution format and RPMs. Something else to consider. Nick ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
Quoting Nick Schmalenberger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): If you haven't already gotten the Blackdown thing from where Rick Moen said, you could try getting the RPM of JDK from Sun and converting it to deb with alien, then installing it. It worked nicely for me and I now have v1.5 , although you may prefer the Blackdown one anyway because it is apparently more free and certainly easier to install and maintain with apt. Just to clarify: Since Blackdown's versions are an authorised port of Sun's software, they're under the same proprietary licence. -- Cheers, Hardware: The part you kick. Rick MoenSoftware: The part you boot. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Accessing cdrom from Tom's Root Boot
On Thursday 30 December 2004 11:03, Peter Jay Salzman wrote: On Thu 30 Dec 04, 10:58 AM, Richard S. Crawford [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I'm trying to build a LuMiX box; the distribution comes as a big tar file on a Unfortunately I can't seem to figure out how to get to the cdrom drive. I imagine that when I booted the computer, it detected the cdrom drive somehow, but dmesg reveals nothing about it. I've tried to mount /dev/hdc through /dev/hde to /cdrom, but I've had no luck. The message I receive is: # mount -a mount: the kernel does not recognize /dev/hdc as a block device (maybe 'insmod driver'?) The relevant entry in /etc/fstab looks like this: /dev/hdc /cdrom iso9660 1 1 What am I missing? I've never done an installation like this; these newfangled distributions like FC3 and even Debian make everything too easy. Hi Richard, Please post: dmesg | egrep '^hd[a-z]' # dmesg | egrep '^hd[a-z]' hda: WDC AC23200L, ATA DISK drive hda: WDC AC23200L, 2098MB w/256kB Cache, CHS=787/128/63 hda: hda1 hda2 hda3 Apparently the CD-ROM drive is *not* being detected during boot, even though I've got the BIOS to boot from the CD-ROM drive, and it spins up during bootup. The cable to the drive is firmly seated. -- Richard S. Crawford (mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) AIM: Buffalo2K / http://www.mossroot.com You can't depend on your judgment when your imagination is out of focus. -Mark Twain ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Accessing cdrom from Tom's Root Boot
On Thu 30 Dec 04, 1:03 PM, Richard S. Crawford [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: # dmesg | egrep '^hd[a-z]' hda: WDC AC23200L, ATA DISK drive hda: WDC AC23200L, 2098MB w/256kB Cache, CHS=787/128/63 hda: hda1 hda2 hda3 Apparently the CD-ROM drive is *not* being detected during boot, even though I've got the BIOS to boot from the CD-ROM drive, and it spins up during ^^^ Oh, oops. Let me see if I have this straight. You booted the operating system off the cdrom drive. In other words, the kernel was read off a CD, and still, the cdrom drive isn't detected? Pete -- The mathematics of physics has become ever more abstract, rather than more complicated. The mind of God appears to be abstract but not complicated. He also appears to like group theory. -- Tony Zee's Fearful Symmetry GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Accessing cdrom from Tom's Root Boot
On Thu 30 Dec 04, 12:45 PM, Richard S. Crawford [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Thursday 30 December 2004 11:12, Henry House wrote: - modprobe ide-cd - modprobe cdrom # modprobe ide-cd modprobe: not found Try insmod. Modprobe is a fancy schmancy front end to insmod. :) You have to get the dependencies right, though. insmod /lib/modules/path/to/cdrom.o insmod /lib/modules/path/to/ide-cd.o or insmod /lib/modules/path/to/ide-cd.o insmod /lib/modules/path/to/cdrom.o Pete -- The mathematics of physics has become ever more abstract, rather than more complicated. The mind of God appears to be abstract but not complicated. He also appears to like group theory. -- Tony Zee's Fearful Symmetry GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Running Multiple Distros
On Thursday 30 December 2004 12:13, Rod Roark wrote: It seems like any new distro put into /dev/hdb3 will automatically use /dev/hdb7 (which SuSE 9.2 is using), right? Is there anyway to install a new distro on /dev/hdb3 and have it use a /home on /dev/hdb3? I would expect that to be the default. If the new distro does somehow figure out that you were using hdb7 for /home and decides to make that the default, it should at least give you a chance to override it. Right, and I just discovered the truth of what you're saying. You put SuSE9.2 in my spare partition when you built this Sunset Systems machine. (Though it's not part of the GRUB menu at present and so doesn't boot.) So I just cd'd over to that partition and noticed that /home was empty. But I'm glad I asked this question anyway because of the information I got in the responses. I will use that information in my future experiments. Thanks again Pete, Rod and Rick. Bob ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Accessing cdrom from Tom's Root Boot
On Thursday 30 December 2004 13:17, Peter Jay Salzman wrote: Oh, oops. Let me see if I have this straight. You booted the operating system off the cdrom drive. In other words, the kernel was read off a CD, and still, the cdrom drive isn't detected? Sorry, I was unclear. Nope, I'm using Tom's Root Boot on a floppy. The computer's set to boot from the CD-ROM drive first, but I figured it wasn't since there was nothing in the CD-ROM to boot from. Going through the BIOS, I find no option to automatically detect all IDE drives. When I go to device list, though, the CD-ROM drive does not show up; and I don't see the CD ROM drive listed in the list of IDE devices that pop up at the end of the boot sequence before LILO kicks in. So I'm guessing that the CD-ROM drive is not being detected by the system for some reason. Weird. I'm going to contact the sysadmin who maintained this computer at the library and see if he had disabled the CD-ROM drive for some reason. -- Richard S. Crawford (mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) AIM: Buffalo2K / http://www.mossroot.com You can't depend on your judgment when your imagination is out of focus. -Mark Twain ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
On Thu, Dec 30, 2004 at 01:01:00PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Nick Schmalenberger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): If you haven't already gotten the Blackdown thing from where Rick Moen said, you could try getting the RPM of JDK from Sun and converting it to deb with alien, then installing it. It worked nicely for me and I now have v1.5 , although you may prefer the Blackdown one anyway because it is apparently more free and certainly easier to install and maintain with apt. Just to clarify: Since Blackdown's versions are an authorised port of Sun's software, they're under the same proprietary licence. Why do we need Blackdown's versions then if Sun offers downloads for Linux already? -- I usually have a GPG digital signature included as an attachment. See http://www.gnupg.org/ for info about these digital signatures. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Accessing cdrom from Tom's Root Boot
On Thu 30 Dec 04, 2:06 PM, Richard S. Crawford [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Thursday 30 December 2004 13:17, Peter Jay Salzman wrote: Oh, oops. Let me see if I have this straight. You booted the operating system off the cdrom drive. In other words, the kernel was read off a CD, and still, the cdrom drive isn't detected? Sorry, I was unclear. Nope, I'm using Tom's Root Boot on a floppy. The computer's set to boot from the CD-ROM drive first, but I figured it wasn't since there was nothing in the CD-ROM to boot from. Going through the BIOS, I find no option to automatically detect all IDE drives. When I go to device list, though, the CD-ROM drive does not show up; and I don't see the CD ROM drive listed in the list of IDE devices that pop up at the end of the boot sequence before LILO kicks in. So I'm guessing that the CD-ROM drive is not being detected by the system for some reason. Weird. I'm going to contact the sysadmin who maintained this computer at the library and see if he had disabled the CD-ROM drive for some reason. Agreed: wierd. IDE (at this level) is usually foolproof. I can't think of any way to disable a cdrom. One last thing you might want to try: press the open door button (or if the cdrom has a light, see if the light goes on) when the system turns on. Honestly, this sounds like the cdrom drive isn't getting power. Actually, one more thing pops to mind. Maybe this used to be a SCSI only system, so BIOS was set to reserve IRQ 14/15? But if this were the case, I'd think that BIOS would still report the hardware. Maybe I'm wrong. I've never really understood the interplay between BIOS and the PC very well. It's still a very mysterious thing to me. Pete -- The mathematics of physics has become ever more abstract, rather than more complicated. The mind of God appears to be abstract but not complicated. He also appears to like group theory. -- Tony Zee's Fearful Symmetry GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Running Multiple Distros
On Thu, Dec 30, 2004 at 11:11:47AM -0800, Robert G. Scofield wrote: I have two questions about running more than one Linux distribution on a single machine. #1: Does the existence of a separate partition for /home mean that it is not practical to run more than one Linux distribution on a machine? I have SuSE on one partition, and I have space allocated for another distro. But my home directory is on still another partition. When certain programs are run they put hidden files and directories in /home. For example .kde is a directory containing many subdirectories and some files. If I install Debian in my spare partition, will the programs in Debian insert hidden configuration files that will break SuSE's connection to it's configuration files in /home. Will Debian's .kde break SuSE's connection with the .kde that KDE installed when it was originally started in SuSE? See an answer I wrote to this question previously at http://lugod.org/mailinglists/archives/vox-tech/2004-07/msg00264.html #2 Suppose the answer to #1 is that the second distro will break the first distro's connection to it's configuration files in /home. Will there still be a problem if I install the same version of SuSE in the spare partition? Suppose, for example, that I want a duplicate version of SuSE in which to experiment with configuring files and compiling programs so that if I blow the system, I can still run the original SuSE system. -- I usually have a GPG digital signature included as an attachment. See http://www.gnupg.org/ for info about these digital signatures. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
Message: 7 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:01:00 -0800 From: Rick Moen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java To: vox-tech@lists.lugod.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [snip] have v1.5 , although you may prefer the Blackdown one anyway because it is apparently more free and certainly easier to install and maintain with apt. Just to clarify: Since Blackdown's versions are an authorised port of Sun's software, they're under the same proprietary licence. Huh. Thanks, I didn't know that. Previously I had the impression that Blackdown was a totally Sun-independent implementation of Java, which was why it was behind in Java compatibility, but had a more free license. So then is more Linux compatibility at the cost of less Java compatibility all there is to Blackdown? ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
On Thu 30 Dec 04, 2:15 PM, Ken Bloom [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Thu, Dec 30, 2004 at 01:01:00PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Nick Schmalenberger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): If you haven't already gotten the Blackdown thing from where Rick Moen said, you could try getting the RPM of JDK from Sun and converting it to deb with alien, then installing it. It worked nicely for me and I now have v1.5 , although you may prefer the Blackdown one anyway because it is apparently more free and certainly easier to install and maintain with apt. Just to clarify: Since Blackdown's versions are an authorised port of Sun's software, they're under the same proprietary licence. Why do we need Blackdown's versions then if Sun offers downloads for Linux already? From Google blackdown Sun java comparison linux: 1. http://www.magelang.com/faq/printablefaq.jsp?topic=Linux Why are there two ports of J2SE for Linux (one from Blackdown, one from Sun)? Location: http://www.jguru.com/faq/view.jsp?EID=47694 Created: May 11, 2000 Modified: 2000-05-21 17:02:35.591 Author: Alex Chaffee (http://www.jguru.com/guru/viewbio.jsp?EID=3) According to Sun senior product manager Blake Connell, on a chat on the JDC: Sun's port is a commercial grade port that is supported by Sun's technical support programs. Our port is intended for customers who need the backing of a commerical entity. The Blackdown port is a bit more leading edge (thread support, multi-processors) and the Blackdown folks can rapidly respond with changes and modifications and post them on their web site. Sun must run through a detailed test matrix to release. Some recent comments from Sun suggest that Sun will... Author: Nathan Meyers (http://www.jguru.com/guru/viewbio.jsp?EID=138686), Oct 29, 2000 Some recent comments from Sun suggest that Sun will take primary ownership of releasing future Linux JDK ports and Blackdown will concentrate on Linux ports of extensions, such as audio, 3D, serial port, and such. 2. http://www.linuxworld.com/story/32610_p.htm You needn't sweat the decision. Sun uses the code from Blackdown as the basis for its SDK, so the two distributions are very similar. In some respects, the Sun version is more complete, but Blackdown offers some extra goodies you won't get from Sun, such as the Java Web Start utility (a way to launch Java applications from a browser). King Solomon-like, I installed both. I use Backdown's Java Web Start and Sun's SDK. -- The mathematics of physics has become ever more abstract, rather than more complicated. The mind of God appears to be abstract but not complicated. He also appears to like group theory. -- Tony Zee's Fearful Symmetry GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Accessing cdrom from Tom's Root Boot
On Thursday 30 December 2004 14:06, Richard S. Crawford wrote: Weird. I'm going to contact the sysadmin who maintained this computer at the library and see if he had disabled the CD-ROM drive for some reason. The CD-ROM drive *had* been disabled. There was a place in the BIOS to enable it, but it was hidden. I found it, enabled the hard drive, and was able to mount /dev/hdc to /cdrom. Thanks for all the help and suggestions. -- Richard S. Crawford (mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) AIM: Buffalo2K / http://www.mossroot.com You can't depend on your judgment when your imagination is out of focus. -Mark Twain ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
Quoting Ken Bloom ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Why do we need Blackdown's versions then if Sun offers downloads for Linux already? Are you asking how and why Blackdown's port came to exist in the first place, or are you asking why a Linux user might favour one over the other? I'm not exactly Mr. Java Guy[1], but (to take a shot at the first question) my vague understanding is that the Blackdown Group ported Sun's JDK to Linux (with permission) before Sun itself became interested in doing so -- accounting for the present existence of two releases for Linux. As to which JDK a Linux user might prefer and why: I suppose that the generally superior packing for Linux (and for various Linux distros) of Blackdown's port might be persuasive to some, and the upstream Sun version's inherently earliest access to new JDK releases would be more persuasive to others. The latter would particularly be the case if you're one of those The hell with package management; I'll just build shiny-new software under /usr/local or /opt people. As you'll have guessed, I'm definitely not one of those. [1] Not intending any form of criticism, but my personal choice of JDKs, between the two, is None of The Above. ;- ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
Quoting Nick Schmalenberger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Huh. Thanks, I didn't know that. Previously I had the impression that Blackdown was a totally Sun-independent implementation of Java, which was why it was behind in Java compatibility, but had a more free license. So then is more Linux compatibility at the cost of less Java compatibility all there is to Blackdown? I defer to Pete's scholarly answer on the point -- except to add (and please pardon the slight repetition) that Blackdown seems to do a much better job of fully porting and packaging the software properly for Linux distros. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Accessing cdrom from Tom's Root Boot
On Thursday 30 December 2004 14:17, Peter Jay Salzman wrote: Agreed: wierd. IDE (at this level) is usually foolproof. I can't think of any way to disable a cdrom. I think he had disabled the auto-detect for IDE drives beyond the first device. It was set to detect the hard drive, and had options to auto-detect another primary drive, and two secondary drives. Those were all disabled. I set the first secondary drive to auto-detect CD-ROM, and that fixed it. This computer was originally located in a public library. I imagine that the previous sysadmin had done this (and set the setup password as well) in order to protect the computer from being tampered with. -- Richard S. Crawford (mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) AIM: Buffalo2K / http://www.mossroot.com You can't depend on your judgment when your imagination is out of focus. -Mark Twain ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
On Thu 30 Dec 04, 2:35 PM, Rick Moen [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Quoting Nick Schmalenberger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Huh. Thanks, I didn't know that. Previously I had the impression that Blackdown was a totally Sun-independent implementation of Java, which was why it was behind in Java compatibility, but had a more free license. So then is more Linux compatibility at the cost of less Java compatibility all there is to Blackdown? I defer to Pete's scholarly answer on the point -- except to add (and please pardon the slight repetition) that Blackdown seems to do a much better job of fully porting and packaging the software properly for Linux distros. Heh. Don't look at me! I'm *completely* on your side: * I bypass package management only as a *very* last resort (like when the Debian Yadex package was a _full two years_ out of date. Even then, time permitting, I'll create my own personal Debian package and install the software that way (especially if the tarball in question uses autoconf). * Couldn't care less about Java. I think slow must have been one of the Java design principles... ;) Pete (who got suckered to purchase IBM's Via Voice, oh so long ago) -- The mathematics of physics has become ever more abstract, rather than more complicated. The mind of God appears to be abstract but not complicated. He also appears to like group theory. -- Tony Zee's Fearful Symmetry GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Installing Java
Quoting Peter Jay Salzman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Heh. Don't look at me! I'm *completely* on your side: Just to make sure I'm clear about this, I thought your reply (with the two quotations, from the Java FAQ and from Petreley) was excellent, and quite informative. Appreciated. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
[vox-tech] a new GRASS user group in the Davis area ?
Hi everyone! After some thought, and bouncing a couple of messages off of the people in the official GRASS mailing list - it seems that there may be enough people in the Davis area to start a user group for the open source GIS and image analysis platform known as GRASS (http://grass.itc.it/index.php). However, before anything happens I am curious if anyone in the davis linux user group would be interested in GRASS, or perhaps if anyone has any ideas on how this user group should be setup. Specifically, would it be possible (or even desireable) to have the GRASS group associated (in some way shape or form) with the davis linux user group. some of the objectives of the GRASS user group would be: -installation and setup of the GRASS environment for new users -examples of how to use the program -trouble shooting and general advice -integration of local solutions or bugfixes back into the main source tree, via the GRASS project leaders -development of methods and workflow for a fully-functional open source digital cartography system: composed of GRASS, GM, and perhaps the GIMP and others? -anything else that comes to mind! Any ideas? thanks in advance!! Dylan ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: trusting downloaded code (was: [vox-tech] Installing Java)
On Thursday 30 December 2004 11:34, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Henry House ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I've occasionally speculated that it would be really useful for distributions to provide a package containing all the public keys used by upstram maintainers (e.g., kernel.org) to sign releases. There is no guarantee that when I download Foo Group GmBH's latest tarball and PGP key from their FTP server, then verify the former against the latter, that I have not downloaded a compromised tarball AND conpromised PGP key. Thoughts? A more _standard_ (extant and functional) way you verify that a PGP/gpg key is valid is via signatures in that key (and absence of a revocation certificates) in the worldwide web of trust. Obviously, you would not _ever_ want to trust an upstream package _merely_ because it was accompanied by either J. Random PGP/gpg key or an MD5 sum, as any halfway competent intruder would fake those, too. For some packages I have downloaded, the signers key is retrieved from a different site. I also then check against a key server. This is not foolproof but it does make the bad guys job harder. Another factor is time. If I use the same sites over again, I may be able to check against a key I got some time ago. Presumably, if it would have been compromised, it would have been canceled and a new key generated. Richard Harke ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: trusting downloaded code (was: [vox-tech] Installing Java)
Quoting Richard Harke ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): For some packages I have downloaded, the signers key is retrieved from a different site. I also then check against a key server. This is not foolproof but it does make the bad guys job harder. Another factor is time. If I use the same sites over again, I may be able to check against a key I got some time ago. Presumably, if it would have been compromised, it would have been canceled and a new key generated. Yes, these are both good rules of thumb. I don't think that best practices[1] on this subject have been written about, much. It might make a good article. [1] And I don't mean http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#best-practices . ;- ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
