Re: CMS for web site
Hi Onno and others who replied Thank you all for the comments and advice regarding CMs, they certainly enlighted me about CMS and web design in general. Onno I really appreciated your low-level description on how everything fits in too. Thankyou. I didnt realise there were so many CMS programs ( some free) out there. Im not a web-developer but am interested in being involved with its design and change. I actually forgot to put in my web address for those who know something about web design etc and who want to have a look and comment please do. (I do research work on whales in WA.) www.whaleswa.com.au I had the design done by a graphics artist last year (logos, cards, brochures etc) and it was just a basic site. Im now looking at making it more functional so that I can put up information and update it regularly with research papers, projects and details of species in WA waters so that others can make use of it. kind regards and many thanks to everyone. chris On 06/09/2005, at 7:48 AM, Onno Benschop wrote: Chris Burton wrote: Hi muggers I have a query regarding CMS (content management system) for a web site. I have only just heard about this from a web designer who says it is very necessary for my quite simple web site, as Im wanting to make my site more interesting and be able to update with more information over time. My question is how will I know if I need to have this, as it is expensive and by the sounds of it ties me down to their hosting of my site so I can use the CMS to update the site. The hosting is quite expensive, relative to what I pay now. They are charging $360/year just to host the site. Could someone please give me some advice or online sites that I can check out to help me make a decision. I am a complete novice but eager to learn what I can. I have dabbled in Golive 6, but at the moment have no spare time and realise there is a lot more to making a good site than at a first glance. Many thanks to everyone As a software developer I can give you some comment about what you're asking. I'll refrain from commenting on cost because I don't know your circumstances. (For one organisation $10 is expensive, for another, $3000 is a bargain.) As you know, a web-site is a way to share information with people using web-browsers. This information could be stored as single documents inside folders on the hosting server. They run a piece of software, called a web-server, that retrieves the requested document and returns it to the visitor. A document based web-site is simple to maintain until it hits around 20 pages. At that time you might find that you spend more time fixing links and changing menus everywhere, rather than maintaining actual content. A CMS is a tool to manage that process. The CMS generates documents (from various sources) and sends them back to the web-server which sends it back to the visitor. From the outside nothing seems to have changed. On the inside however, a whole lot of different things happen. Some CMS software generates its content from a database, others do it from little text files. The upshot is that the CMS software should deal with navigation, organisation and permissions, and you as the web-master only need to worry about content. If you have HTML skills and a small site there is likely no need to invest in a CMS, but if either of those is missing, then you need to ask yourself, am I a web-developer, or not? As some on this list have pointed out, a CMS can be free, or it can cost money. As you've found out, the CMS being offered to you is charged by way of hosting. Other constructs set up your CMS including x hours of training and support with the hosting separate. Some things to consider: * If the relationship between you and your web-developer sours, where is the content, who has control of it and do you have the right to host your existing application somewhere else? * If you're locked in, the process of getting your data out can be very painful - I have dealt with this more than once. * A CMS isn't a catch all tool, but it can solve a problem for many people. * Some users of CMS software never get it and continue to upload complete HTML pages into their CMS, completely defeating the purpose. Disclaimer: I am a web-developer, I sell my own CMS, ITemWeb, it runs on several sites including the WA Bed Breakfast and the World Solar Challenge. I cannot comment on your personal environment without knowing any details. I've left out a great many other considerations here, but tried to give you some idea of what the scope of the question you're asking entails. Kind regards, -- Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S34°45'36.5 - E139°00'08.7 (Mount Pleasant, SA) -- ()/)/)()..ASCII for Onno.. |?..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony
Re: CMS for web site
Hi muggers I have a query regarding CMS (content management system) for a web site. I have only just heard about this from a web designer who says it is very necessary for my quite simple web site, as Im wanting to make my site more interesting and be able to update with more information over time. My question is how will I know if I need to have this, as it is expensive and by the sounds of it ties me down to their hosting of my site so I can use the CMS to update the site. The hosting is quite expensive, relative to what I pay now. They are charging $360/year just to host the site. Could someone please give me some advice or online sites that I can check out to help me make a decision. I am a complete novice but eager to learn what I can. I have dabbled in Golive 6, but at the moment have no spare time and realise there is a lot more to making a good site than at a first glance. Many thanks to everyone Chris Free content management systems that are around are MySource: http://mysource.squiz.net/ Zope: http://www.zope.org/ PostNuke: http://www.postnuke.com/modules.php?op=modloadname=Navigationfile=index If you need net hosting there is the community bur.st site which is run on donations, pay them what you think it's worth: http://bur.st/services.html I'm sure you could find someone to help you set the site up on bur.st with a CMS for less than $360! Of course you'd want backups etc... Have fun, Shay -- === Shay Telfer Perth, Western Australia Technomancer The love of liberty is the love Opinions for hire [POQ] of others; the love of power is http://public.xdi.org/=Shayfnord the love of ourselves - Hazlitt
Re: CMS for web site
On Mon, 2005-09-05 at 22:56 +0800, Shay Telfer wrote: Free content management systems that are around are MySource: http://mysource.squiz.net/ Zope: http://www.zope.org/ PostNuke: http://www.postnuke.com/modules.php?op=modloadname=Navigationfile=index I also know of Plone (based on Zope), Mambo, and Drupal. There are probably many more. Note that depending on what you want, a web CMS may be overkill. It also introduces more security concerns than a static site does. Have you considered approaches like building the site from more basic content using a script? It's hard to know if a CMS is actually the right answer, or if your web designer just wants to hit every problem with the CMS hammer, without knowing your needs. -- Craig Ringer
Re: CMS for web site
My only experience with CMS was with a site that needed updating because the provider of the initial CMS went out of business, the info was transferred to another server. Became a total nightmare and took months to resolve and required a total rewrite of the site. In that time the ability to update the site was effectively lost, mainly due to the level of access / permissions available. Also consider the ease of use if a number of people may be updating site information. Trying to update page text in a text box 50 mm wide and 100 mm high is not a pleasant experience. Make a note in your risk assessment about the consequences of it falling over and plan for that eventuality. Regards Paul On 05/09/2005, at 10:18 PM, Chris Burton wrote: Hi muggers I have a query regarding CMS (content management system) for a web site. I have only just heard about this from a web designer who says it is very necessary for my quite simple web site, as Im wanting to make my site more interesting and be able to update with more information over time. My question is how will I know if I need to have this, as it is expensive and by the sounds of it ties me down to their hosting of my site so I can use the CMS to update the site. The hosting is quite expensive, relative to what I pay now. They are charging $360/ year just to host the site. Could someone please give me some advice or online sites that I can check out to help me make a decision. I am a complete novice but eager to learn what I can. I have dabbled in Golive 6, but at the moment have no spare time and realise there is a lot more to making a good site than at a first glance. Many thanks to everyone Chris -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro
Re: CMS for web site
Chris Burton wrote: Hi muggers I have a query regarding CMS (content management system) for a web site. I have only just heard about this from a web designer who says it is very necessary for my quite simple web site, as Im wanting to make my site more interesting and be able to update with more information over time. My question is how will I know if I need to have this, as it is expensive and by the sounds of it ties me down to their hosting of my site so I can use the CMS to update the site. The hosting is quite expensive, relative to what I pay now. They are charging $360/year just to host the site. Could someone please give me some advice or online sites that I can check out to help me make a decision. I am a complete novice but eager to learn what I can. I have dabbled in Golive 6, but at the moment have no spare time and realise there is a lot more to making a good site than at a first glance. Many thanks to everyone As a software developer I can give you some comment about what you're asking. I'll refrain from commenting on cost because I don't know your circumstances. (For one organisation $10 is expensive, for another, $3000 is a bargain.) As you know, a web-site is a way to share information with people using web-browsers. This information could be stored as single documents inside folders on the hosting server. They run a piece of software, called a web-server, that retrieves the requested document and returns it to the visitor. A document based web-site is simple to maintain until it hits around 20 pages. At that time you might find that you spend more time fixing links and changing menus everywhere, rather than maintaining actual content. A CMS is a tool to manage that process. The CMS generates documents (from various sources) and sends them back to the web-server which sends it back to the visitor. From the outside nothing seems to have changed. On the inside however, a whole lot of different things happen. Some CMS software generates its content from a database, others do it from little text files. The upshot is that the CMS software should deal with navigation, organisation and permissions, and you as the web-master only need to worry about content. If you have HTML skills and a small site there is likely no need to invest in a CMS, but if either of those is missing, then you need to ask yourself, am I a web-developer, or not? As some on this list have pointed out, a CMS can be free, or it can cost money. As you've found out, the CMS being offered to you is charged by way of hosting. Other constructs set up your CMS including x hours of training and support with the hosting separate. Some things to consider: * If the relationship between you and your web-developer sours, where is the content, who has control of it and do you have the right to host your existing application somewhere else? * If you're locked in, the process of getting your data out can be very painful - I have dealt with this more than once. * A CMS isn't a catch all tool, but it can solve a problem for many people. * Some users of CMS software never get it and continue to upload complete HTML pages into their CMS, completely defeating the purpose. Disclaimer: I am a web-developer, I sell my own CMS, ITemWeb, it runs on several sites including the WA Bed Breakfast and the World Solar Challenge. I cannot comment on your personal environment without knowing any details. I've left out a great many other considerations here, but tried to give you some idea of what the scope of the question you're asking entails. Kind regards, -- Onno Benschop Connected via Optus B3 at S34°45'36.5 - E139°00'08.7 (Mount Pleasant, SA) -- ()/)/)()..ASCII for Onno.. |?..EBCDIC for Onno.. --- -. -. --- ..Morse for Onno.. Proudly supported by Skipper Trucks, Highway1, Concept AV, Sony Central, Dalcon ITmaze - ABN: 56 178 057 063 - ph: 04 1219 - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT: Re: CMS for web site
Hi Chris. Really depends on what you want to achieve, but yes a CMS is useful for keeping a website current - and does have added overheads. In general they require some sort of back-end database as well as scripting support - so need a hosting package that provides for this. The basic difference as I would explain it is that a CMS allows you to add and edit content straight from a web browser, whereas a static site needs an off-line editor (like Golive - or even Text Edit:) This makes life easier if a number of people are involved in maintaining the site, or if edits need to be made from various locations. Integration with photo galleries, rss feeds etc etc are added benefits of a good CMS. Have a look at http://opensourcecms.com for details on some of the different free CMS systems available - these particular ones rely on PHP/MySQL so would need hosting that supports a MySQL database. I personally favour Drupal or Joomla (was Mambo). drupal.org joomla.org $360 a year sounds a lot - depends if that includes the domain too I guess... I'm sure there are better deals out there Hosting one of these CMSen on your Mac (of course:) through an ADSL account may also be a possibility to consider. HTH Steve. On 05/09/2005, at 10:18 PM, Chris Burton wrote: Hi muggers I have a query regarding CMS (content management system) for a web site. I have only just heard about this from a web designer who says it is very necessary for my quite simple web site, as Im wanting to make my site more interesting and be able to update with more information over time. My question is how will I know if I need to have this, as it is expensive and by the sounds of it ties me down to their hosting of my site so I can use the CMS to update the site. The hosting is quite expensive, relative to what I pay now. They are charging $360/ year just to host the site. Could someone please give me some advice or online sites that I can check out to help me make a decision. I am a complete novice but eager to learn what I can. I have dabbled in Golive 6, but at the moment have no spare time and realise there is a lot more to making a good site than at a first glance. Many thanks to everyone Chris -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml Guidelines - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml Unsubscribe - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] WAMUG is powered by Stalker CommuniGatePro
