Re: [wdvltalk] Site Check: http://www.gregoriopools.com/
On 4/10/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its been a while but im back looking for some more third-party advice. Please take a look at my clients web site [http://www.gregoriopools.com/] - I just recently rescued it from a fate worse then death, or at least made it so that it didn't have a funky '90s look and feel (when i took over this year the site hadnt been updated since 2002). Nothing wrong with the color pallette; it works fine. The appearance issues have been well covered and David has made a good start on the technical. From a technical point of view, drop the xml prolog, it's unnecessary unless the pages are being servedf as applicaltion/ xhtml+xml. All this does otherwise is to throw IE into quirks mode, which might explain some of the IE issues you hint at. Go all the way and go for the strict; html would be fine. Most importantly, this is not tabular data so why is it a table layout? There is a certain inconsistency between proclaim xhtml validity and using a layout antithetical to the spirit of xhtml. Your table is rife with font tags. Why? And there are lovely arcane debates which can be engaged in over the use of strong versus a span. And the perpetual favorites about when markup crosses the line between semantic and styling. Those are fun but really not the issue of the moment. Seriously, why tables? This is a pretty basic two column layout which is easily managable with floats and em for width (centering is a piece of cake). If you haven't already, check out some of the layouts on position is everything http://www.positioniseverything.net Or ask here. You know we aren't shy about helping. That said, it looks good. I don't see the jumps but then eyes vary. drew The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or use the web interface http://e-newsletters.internet.com/discussionlists.html/ Send Your Posts To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com To change subscription settings, add a password or view the web interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/read/?forum=wdvltalk http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: unknown lmsubst tag argument: '' To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
RE: [wdvltalk] Site Check: http://www.gregoriopools.com/
Hi, I didn't spend a lot of time reviewing this site but I have to disagree with Drew on the color scheme. The clashing blues would send me running as a customer. I'd wonder if these guys' design sense was so bad that it would also be reflected in their work. I think the marbleized grayed-out blue would be complimented by a background that is medium tan/light clay color... with a cream color font for the contents of the left sidebar. I would replace the bright blue #3300CC with something like #E0E191 - R224,G225,B145. Leave the grayed blue boxes that back up the sidebar text alone and use a cream color for the font -- something somewhere around #F1F0AB - R241,G240,B171. Would look classier than the clashing blues. Just my 2 cents. Ann -Original Message- From: Drew Trusz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 6:28 AM To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com Subject: Re: [wdvltalk] Site Check: http://www.gregoriopools.com/ Nothing wrong with the color pallette; it works fine. The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or use the web interface http://e-newsletters.internet.com/discussionlists.html/ Send Your Posts To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com To change subscription settings, add a password or view the web interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/read/?forum=wdvltalk http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: unknown lmsubst tag argument: '' To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
Re: [wdvltalk] Site Check: http://www.gregoriopools.com/
On 4/11/06, Ann Dietz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the marbleized grayed-out blue would be complimented by a background that is medium tan/light clay color... with a cream color font for the contents of the left sidebar. That's not marbleized blue, its crystal clear, see-to-the-bottom water. Eyes do vary in what they see and tolerate. Although I do like your color scheme. drew The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or use the web interface http://e-newsletters.internet.com/discussionlists.html/ Send Your Posts To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com To change subscription settings, add a password or view the web interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/read/?forum=wdvltalk http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: unknown lmsubst tag argument: '' To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
Re: [wdvltalk] Site Check: http://www.gregoriopools.com/
TY Drew, I am using the XHTML for 2 reasons, 1 - I plan on using XML based applications for customers to review their account online, as well as serve information on chemicals and relevent federal and state guidelines for pool spa owners. Table-wise, the tables are there right now to get a nice format and structure that works, I plan on converting to CSS based positioning in the near future - the only problem I have with that is that IE and other browsers tend to display CSS positioning in their own special ways, I want to try and make this as cross browser as possible while maintaining usability and a functional design. The font tags are there for really the same reason, until I go to full CSS based positioning and styling [this can be considered an alpha site, the previous beta version was much worse - MS Word HTML was the basis for it]. The next real revision of the site will use SPAN and DIV tags to take care of all of the formatting and positioning. [btw - this is a 3 column layout at this point :)] I fixed the jumping problem yesterday afternoon, it was a problem with column widths that was just a brain-fart slip up. I am working on revisions right now and will repost the link when I think its ready for another go around. On 11 Apr 2006 at 6:27, Drew Trusz wrote: Nothing wrong with the color pallette; it works fine. The appearance issues have been well covered and David has made a good start on the technical. From a technical point of view, drop the xml prolog, it's unnecessary unless the pages are being servedf as applicaltion/ xhtml+xml. All this does otherwise is to throw IE into quirks mode, which might explain some of the IE issues you hint at. Go all the way and go for the strict; html would be fine. Most importantly, this is not tabular data so why is it a table layout? There is a certain inconsistency between proclaim xhtml validity and using a layout antithetical to the spirit of xhtml. Your table is rife with font tags. Why? And there are lovely arcane debates which can be engaged in over the use of strong versus a span. And the perpetual favorites about when markup crosses the line between semantic and styling. Those are fun but really not the issue of the moment. Seriously, why tables? This is a pretty basic two column layout which is easily managable with floats and em for width (centering is a piece of cake). If you haven't already, check out some of the layouts on position is everything http://www.positioniseverything.net Or ask here. You know we aren't shy about helping. That said, it looks good. I don't see the jumps but then eyes vary. drew The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or use the web interface http://e-newsletters.internet.com/discussionlists.html/ Send Your Posts To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com To change subscription settings, add a password or view the web interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/read/?forum=wdvltalk http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
Re: [wdvltalk] Site Check: http://www.gregoriopools.com/
Thanks for the feedback - Oddly enough the Google ads block doesn't show many competitors, many of the sites listed either complement my clients site [he doesnt sell absolutely everything related to pools spas], or link to him [vendors, ad affiliates, etc] - plus it brings in some extra cash on the side; I will probably move it to a different location but with the competative ad filter that google has it is actually something that adds some enhancement to the site [someone clicks on a pool search link and is referred back to this site will know that they are highly recommended for instance] - the xhtml logo is for my own reference right now, a future integration of the site will be an XML based news section [company based news] and chemical FAQ that will show info on balancing pools and spas correctly - that is why i chose the XHTML standards verse HTML. The navigation link titles are directly taken from the old site for now, as I stated, I am trying to bring this site into the future slowly and taking it one step at a time - I will be renaming the Sales links 'Information' because that is all they really do right now, a future online store will be accessed differently - I get your idea though and completely agree. As for further categorizing the products, that would make the Right navigation bar way to long - My client sells 5 different brands of spas and another 5 different types of pools [brand names] as well as subsets of each. The reason they are seperated the way they are right now is so that the customer can get access to any part of each category from any page, I think that too many clicks to get to say information about maintaining your pool would drive more customers off - My client has actually had customers that have been coming to the site and liking the fact that they can get to specific areas so quickly. As for the maintenance and service sections - these are going to contain important information for consumers - owning a pool or spa is _not_ a hayride in the park, there is work involve and my client wants to provide owners with a sense of security by showing them common problems and how to fix them on their own, or what sort of services he provide to help them keep it as pain free as possible. I do not want to gloss over the responsibility of owning a pool, and I also want my client ot be able to showcase his [and his staffs'] knowledge of what can go wrong and that they know how to fix it. I plan on streamlining the site more and more as time goes by, but I also am working within the constraints that the client has, he wants people to be able to make the proper choice (as well as do business with us) so he wants them to be able to get pertinent information fast. I will think about your ideas though, I just don't want his site to become too 'glitzy' like most of the pool spa store websites out there [his competitor sites run from basic and holding no information, to extremely over glitzy with not enough of the right information] I will work on the suggestions and post the link again when I am ready for another honest review. Thanks again On 11 Apr 2006 at 17:39, David Blakey wrote: I would start by taking out the Google Ads block. There may be a chance that a rival site will attract customers away. The XHTML logo has no significance to visitors. Take that off, too. If I was thinking about - well, considering - buying a pool, I would be put off by that 'Sales' link. Too powerful. Show the punters the product, interest them, and then move on to selling to them. The whole left navigation needs a re-think. I would suggest a heading of 'Products', with pools and spas listed below. Maybe even a list of all the products, if they fit. Can they be categorized any further? I also wouldn't want to think about 'Maintenance and service' up front. It may be a sales point to throw in along the route to a purchase, but where it is now might make we think 'Maybe a pool would be too much trouble'. I really don't think that this site aligns very well with the sales process. Regards, David The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or use the web interface http://e-newsletters.internet.com/discussionlists.html/ Send Your Posts To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com To change subscription settings, add a password or view the web interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/read/?forum=wdvltalk http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
Re: [wdvltalk] Site Check: http://www.gregoriopools.com/
Thanks for the feedback - I was thinking on using different colors or all caps but then i thought that the color would throw off the scheme of things [where color only highlights certain things] and that all caps would be too loud, that's why i chose to have the links use a hover underline only to keep them differentiated. On 10 Apr 2006 at 14:51, Portman wrote: SNIP I think that Arial font would be much more legible. I also think that moving the logo a little down and a little right would look much better. (So it has a white stripe on the left side.) I also find that when things are underlined, people assume that they are links - it might be an idea to change the heading for each group of links to either all caps or something. I know all about working with a limited color palette (try a physical therapist who wants red, white and black!) - good job so far. /SNIP The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or use the web interface http://e-newsletters.internet.com/discussionlists.html/ Send Your Posts To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com To change subscription settings, add a password or view the web interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/read/?forum=wdvltalk http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
Re: [wdvltalk] Site Check: http://www.gregoriopools.com/
Thanks for the honest feedback. The main reason I have the design left aligned right now is because it is in development still and I want to get the design down pat before centering it and optimizing for different monitors. I agree about the centering personall [unfortunately most of the internet thinks just the opposite, they start right to left and leave it that way] having empty space on either side draws the eye towards the content. The thing about the font size is that in IE it displays just the right size [even on high resolution flat panels like I develop on in my home office], but FireFox properly [go figure] scales the font down to what the CSS specified size is - I don't want to mess around with multiple browser CSS right now so I tried to pick a happy medium - considering that most users still use IE to surf the internet, I chose a font size that worked allright there [I am trying out Arial right now but it is kind of large on IE]. The logo is kind of tight with the top, but I have this thing about too much whitespace at the very top of the page, I will move it down a bit and see how it affects the overall appearance - if necessary I will just set the BODY top margin to something other than 0. The side panels are a bit off alignment wise, the main reasons I did this is 1) to draw the eye more from the edge [probably the opposite is happening, but no complaints about navigation from site visitors yet], the right sideboard only does that because of the Google Adspace - I put that there to draw in some extra cash [of course - not much but its cash] and because, oddly enough, 80% of the ads displayed are complimentary - I have to filter out the occasional competitor, but a lot of ads that are shown lead to sites that refer to my client as contractors or service centers; the other sites are for items that don't really affect his business. I might move the google ads from a sidebar to a horizontal banner in the content. The wiggling back and forth between some pages was indeed do to a width issue - I had originally set the right side width at 98px, but the Google ad is 120px [the smallest size they offer for vertical ad width] and I forgot to change the column widths accordingly so every now and then things would bounce around as the table adjusted the columns to try and fit everything. I am thinking of using a different bullet, but I don't know if I want to get too flashy with the website right now, I get your point though - a more stand out bullet would probably highlight the points a bit better. I am making revisions right now with some of these ideas and the other members suggestions and will repost the link when I am ready for another honest critique. TY Charles R King On 10 Apr 2006 at 13:40, PBC Web Design wrote: At 01:08 PM 4/10/2006, you wrote: Its been a while but im back looking for some more third-party advice. Please take a look at my clients web site [http://www.gregoriopools.com/] - I am trying to bring the site slowly into the future and working with a limited color palette [it just has to match the clients brand new logo]. Please let me know what you think and the browser you use - I know for a fact that some things are kind of 'odd' in IE sometimes, but i want some honest opinions. Looking at it in Firefox on PC and providing honest (my opinion only) feedback: First thing I would do is center the design. I have a personal pet peeve about left aligned sites with lots of open space on the right. I have a 19 flat panel monitor and so I find this happening quite a bit on many web sites. I find it harder to read having to cock my head or slide my peepers far left to view the site on my big monitor. I feel that the web design world needs to start thinking more about monitor sizes and larger resolutions in general, but again that's personal opinion as is everything I say here. The font is very small - not illegible but I do think I'd go bigger with it. The logo is smack dab up tight against the top of the page - I think I'd give it a little breathing room. I think I would left align vs centering the info on both sideboards. Or maybe left align the left side and right align the right side. The centering effect going on here along w/the lists in the page is a bit on the to much side of things for my liking. On this page: http://www.gregoriopools.com/whats_new.shtml I would give the text content a bit of white space on the right. The content is butting up to the right sideboard. There are more pages like this as well now that I'm moving around the site more. When you go back and forth 'tween these pages: http://www.gregoriopools.com/spa_sales.shtml http://www.gregoriopools.com/pool_moreinfo.shtml http://www.gregoriopools.com/spa_moreinfo.shtml http://www.gregoriopools.com/whygregorios.shtml your left sideboard has a jumping effect - it gets narrower so
Re: [wdvltalk] Site Check: http://www.gregoriopools.com/
On 06/04/10 14:08 (GMT-0400) Charles King apparently typed: look at my clients web site http://www.gregoriopools.com/ Appears to need a whole lot of accessibility TLC. Here's what I see: http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/charki1.jpg 278k hires linux screenshot http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/tmp/sc-charki.html SS setup related links Please note the disclaimer at the bottom of the setup page. On accessibility: http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/accessibility.html -- Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.Ephesians 5:11 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/auth/auth The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or use the web interface http://e-newsletters.internet.com/discussionlists.html/ Send Your Posts To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com To change subscription settings, add a password or view the web interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/read/?forum=wdvltalk http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
Re: [wdvltalk] Site Check: http://www.gregoriopools.com/
On 4/11/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TY Drew, I am using the XHTML for 2 reasons, 1 - I plan on using XML based applications for customers to review their account online, as well as serve information on chemicals and relevent federal and state guidelines for pool spa owners. Table-wise, the tables are there right now to get a nice format and structure that works, I plan on converting to CSS based positioning in the near future - the only problem I have with that is that IE and other browsers tend to display CSS positioning in their own special ways, I want to try and make this as cross browser as possible while maintaining usability and a functional design. That explains it. The caution about the prolog still stands. Support for xml in browsers is pretty much current generation so most older browsers won't handle an xml page. If you haven't already, see: http://www.w3schools.com/xml/xml_browsers.asp If you want to learn a bit more about possible ways to deal with IE, http://www.positioniseverything.net , is always a good start. The IE section explains what IE does very clearly. It also offers a number of hacks. Keep in mind that the hacks may or may not work with IE7. There are other perfectly valid ways to handle many of the problems without the hacks. Be forewarned some of those ways will raise accusations of sinful if not outrightly perverted syntax, even though the syntax is perfectly valid -- divitis and excessive markup. Good luck with the update. drew The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or use the web interface http://e-newsletters.internet.com/discussionlists.html/ Send Your Posts To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com To change subscription settings, add a password or view the web interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/read/?forum=wdvltalk http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: unknown lmsubst tag argument: '' To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
Re: [wdvltalk] Site Check: http://www.gregoriopools.com/
At 01:08 PM 4/10/2006, you wrote: Its been a while but im back looking for some more third-party advice. Please take a look at my clients web site [http://www.gregoriopools.com/] - I am trying to bring the site slowly into the future and working with a limited color palette [it just has to match the clients brand new logo]. Please let me know what you think and the browser you use - I know for a fact that some things are kind of 'odd' in IE sometimes, but i want some honest opinions. Looking at it in Firefox on PC and providing honest (my opinion only) feedback: First thing I would do is center the design. I have a personal pet peeve about left aligned sites with lots of open space on the right. I have a 19 flat panel monitor and so I find this happening quite a bit on many web sites. I find it harder to read having to cock my head or slide my peepers far left to view the site on my big monitor. I feel that the web design world needs to start thinking more about monitor sizes and larger resolutions in general, but again that's personal opinion as is everything I say here. The font is very small - not illegible but I do think I'd go bigger with it. The logo is smack dab up tight against the top of the page - I think I'd give it a little breathing room. I think I would left align vs centering the info on both sideboards. Or maybe left align the left side and right align the right side. The centering effect going on here along w/the lists in the page is a bit on the to much side of things for my liking. On this page: http://www.gregoriopools.com/whats_new.shtml I would give the text content a bit of white space on the right. The content is butting up to the right sideboard. There are more pages like this as well now that I'm moving around the site more. When you go back and forth 'tween these pages: http://www.gregoriopools.com/spa_sales.shtml http://www.gregoriopools.com/pool_moreinfo.shtml http://www.gregoriopools.com/spa_moreinfo.shtml http://www.gregoriopools.com/whygregorios.shtml your left sideboard has a jumping effect - it gets narrower so something is out of whack in the width somewhere I think. There are more pages doing this I just didn't list them all. So, those are the things I'd be working on if it were my site to do. On a creative note, I think I'd also give the lists something besides the round bullet - something blue maybe an arrow or something different is all I can think of right now. Hope that helps :) :: Deb :: http://www.puterbug.com :: Professional Web Design, SEO :: VPS Web Hosting Services :: Offlist eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or use the web interface http://e-newsletters.internet.com/discussionlists.html/ Send Your Posts To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com To change subscription settings, add a password or view the web interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/read/?forum=wdvltalk http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
Re: [wdvltalk] Site Check: http://www.gregoriopools.com/
I would start by taking out the Google Ads block. There may be a chance that a rival site will attract customers away. The XHTML logo has no significance to visitors. Take that off, too. If I was thinking about - well, considering - buying a pool, I would be put off by that 'Sales' link. Too powerful. Show the punters the product, interest them, and then move on to selling to them. The whole left navigation needs a re-think. I would suggest a heading of 'Products', with pools and spas listed below. Maybe even a list of all the products, if they fit. Can they be categorized any further? I also wouldn't want to think about 'Maintenance and service' up front. It may be a sales point to throw in along the route to a purchase, but where it is now might make we think 'Maybe a pool would be too much trouble'. I really don't think that this site aligns very well with the sales process. Regards, David -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/307 - Release Date: 10/04/06 The WDVL Discussion List from WDVL.COM To Join wdvltalk, Send An Email To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] or use the web interface http://e-newsletters.internet.com/discussionlists.html/ Send Your Posts To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com To change subscription settings, add a password or view the web interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/read/?forum=wdvltalk http://www.wdvl.com ___ You are currently subscribed to wdvltalk as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe via postal mail, please contact us at: Jupitermedia Corp. Attn: Discussion List Management 475 Park Avenue South New York, NY 10016 Please include the email address which you have been contacted with.
