Re: WO Jobs in Southern Germany

[Jürgen Simon]

Hello,

On 31 Dec 2015, at 02:37, Miguel Arroz <ar...@guiamac.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2015, at 2:46 PM, Jürgen Simon <si...@webtecc.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Absolutely. Proper DI facilities make things a lot easier to test. And the 
>> code much cleaner. Wouldn’t it be nice to have something like
>> 
>> @Autowired
>> EOEditingContext editingContext;
> 
>   No. Because now you have no clue where and how that editing context is 
> being created. You literally have to search the entire code base to know the 
> answer to that question. Or, let me correct myself, even then you’re not sure 
> because runtime may be different. On the other hand, if you have 
> ERXEC.newEditingContext(), you *know* what code is running to create that EC. 
> And if you have access to the code (and in Wonder, you do), you can even read 
> it, not just rely on the documentation.

I’m afraid I have to disagree. And the ability to alter the properties of the 
@Autowired object based on the environmental settings is indeed one of the 
strengths of the method. Among other things, it makes setting up testing in a 
continuous integration environment for example much easier. 

>   The reasons I hate DI frameworks like that are:
> 
>   - It makes reading (and thus understanding) the code spectacularly hard. 
> Hard to the point you may spend several hours trying to figure out what 
> object was created and injected and why that object is not the one you 
> expected to be. Keep in mind that in things like @Named the object can be 
> created anywhere in the code base. Also keep in mind that some DI frameworks, 
> like Spring, when faced with two objects in the class path for the same 
> @Named name, will silently pick one trough some arbitrary criteria, instead 
> of crashing and burning, AS THEY SHOULD DO BY DEFAULT (I know they can be 
> configured to to that, but the default behaviour is not the safe behaviour 
> which is stupid).

Not really. If you know where to look and have sufficient understanding of the 
process, it’s not a big problem in my humble opinion. Of course there is a 
learning curve, especially with Spring and that can get a little frustrating. 

>   - You have absolutely no way to know for sure what object is going to be 
> inserted unless you run the app and check it. And obviously the results of 
> doing this in your developer environment can be different from the ones in a 
> production environment. How in the world can anyone think this is a good idea?

As I mentioned above, it depends how you set things up and how well you 
understand the process. In the beginning of course I ran into these troubles, 
but once you understand how it works it’s not really that complicated. And 
again, it makes certain things a lot easier to set up. Plus it really makes for 
cleaner code (in terms of architectural concerns as well as readability). You 
won’t have to look all over the place to check if someone set the object up in 
some non standard way. If you needed specific properties on an object set, you 
can control that with DI just as well and it’s all in once place.

> You can argue that anything in Java has the same behaviour, what class you 
> get depends on the class path you have on the runtime.

I wouldn’t try to bend the argument that far. 

> However, this is a side effect of how Java was designed, and one that causes 
> much headache and is one of the major complains about the Java platform 
> (class path issues). DI is like this *by design*. It incorporates in its 
> design something that is widely recognized as a major problem of the platform.

It also enabled us to control the class loading process which in some instances 
has been the only way to fix certain problems. It is used quite extensively in 
Wonder, if not mistaken. If not for this form of ‘DI’ (although I wouldn’t call 
it that), a lot of things would have been impossible to do. 

>   - I think that if you have to mess up your code to the point of not being 
> able to know (mathematically speaking) how it works unless you run it in 
> order to make your code testable, you’re doing it wrong. If you need 
> indirections to give you different objects when running and testing, then 
> make those explicit in the code, and add them only on the places where you 
> really need it.

Well, I can understand the resistance but frankly can’t second most of the 
arguments. 

>   - It’s one more thing to deal with, configure, work around the limitations 
> and bugs, etc. And the very last thing software development needs is more of 
> that.  Overall, it seems like an extremely inelegant and complex solution to 
> the testing problem. That problem is not easy to solve, it’s true, but I 
> think overall DI brings more pain than gain.

I disagree and I think DI would be a great addition t

Fwd: WO Jobs in Southern Germany

[Jürgen Simon]

Hello,

On 28 Dec 2015, at 20:26, Andrus Adamchik  wrote:

>  
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015, at 05:28 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote:
>>   Just because those frameworks don’t explicitly have abominations like 
>> dependency injection mechanisms, it doesn’t mean they don’t follow the IoC 
>> principles.
>  
> Heh, there are DI frameworks out there that may be called abominations, but 
> DI itself simply facilitates a very clean pluggable architecture if you use 
> it right. And no, WO/EOF doesn't have it. And yes, it is a problem. Just ask 
> the folks who are trying to write unit tests against EOF ;)

Absolutely. Proper DI facilities make things a lot easier to test. And the code 
much cleaner. Wouldn’t it be nice to have something like

@Autowired
EOEditingContext editingContext;

instead of 

EOEditingContext editingContext = ERXEC.newEditingContext()

perhaps even with some rule based setup, aka: D2W meets DI? 

Just thinking out loud.

J.

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Fwd: WO Jobs in Southern Germany

[Jürgen Simon]

Hello,

On 28 Dec 2015, at 20:26, Andrus Adamchik  wrote:

>  
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2015, at 05:28 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote:
>>   Just because those frameworks don’t explicitly have abominations like 
>> dependency injection mechanisms, it doesn’t mean they don’t follow the IoC 
>> principles.
>  
> Heh, there are DI frameworks out there that may be called abominations, but 
> DI itself simply facilitates a very clean pluggable architecture if you use 
> it right. And no, WO/EOF doesn't have it. And yes, it is a problem. Just ask 
> the folks who are trying to write unit tests against EOF ;)

Absolutely. Proper DI facilities make things a lot easier to test. And the code 
much cleaner. Wouldn’t it be nice to have something like

@Autowired
EOEditingContext editingContext;

instead of 

EOEditingContext editingContext = ERXEC.newEditingContext()

perhaps even with some rule based setup, aka: D2W meets DI? 

Just thinking out loud.

J.

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Re: WO Jobs in Southern Germany

[Jürgen Simon]

Hi Ralph,

On 23 Dec 2015, at 11:06, Ralph Scheuer  wrote:

> Hi everybody, 
> 
> this is a bit off-topic, but I'll still try it: 
> 
> if anybody is looking for an experienced WO developer in Southern Germany, 
> preferably in the Munich region, please feel free to get in touch with me 
> off-list via this e-mail address. 
> 
> I would rather go back to WO development rather than starting the next Spring 
> / Hibernate job. 
> 
> A proper CV and references etc. are available as well. 
> 
> Thank you and my apologies for the OT message. 

Sorry, not being able to help. On the lookout myself, but not in Southern 
Germany. I feel your pain, though. WO jobs are hard to come by these days. 
However: once you get to know the Swing/Hibernate stuff, it isn’t half bad. If 
you employ clean architecture, good coding style and separation of concerns 
etc., you can have fun writing Swing/Hibernate code, too. I really like the IoC 
pattern as well, something that might be worth having in WO.

J.
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Looking for WO work

[Jürgen Simon]

Hello list,

anyone in need of an experienced developer with a need for WO? 

Jürgen
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How to build ERRest response for NSDictionary?

[Jürgen Simon]

Hi,

I’m having some trouble implementing a simple function with ERRest. I have a 
method I wish to return a serialized NSDictionary from, not a serialized 
EOObject. Is that possible? The method could look something like this:

@GET
@Path(“/somepath/{id:Integer}/dailyReport)
public WOActionResults dailyReport(@PathParam(“id) Integer id)
{
NSDictionaryString,Object report = getDailyReport();

???
}

How would I go about building a response for this? Or do I need to implement 
another controller not inheriting from ERXRouteController for this?

Kind Regards,
Jürgen ___
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WO Developer looking for projects

[Jürgen Simon]

Hello,

sorry for the ‘abuse’ of the list, but I wouldn’t know where to look for WO 
work outside of this list. Perhaps someone has a tip on that one? I’m an 
experienced WO/iOS developer looking for new projects in remote mode. 

Any takers?
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WebObjects-Projects?

[Jürgen Simon]

Hello,

this is not a technical inquiry, more a temperature check on the 
business side of WebObjects. It is my impression that at least in 
Germany, after the 2008/2009 crisis the market for WebObjects-projects 
has really been down a lot. I have been looking hi and lo for 
opportunities to work with WO again, but apart from self-initiated 
projects there was nothing going on.


Is this perception limited to Germany or is it even just me? Are there 
any project marketplaces for WO that I am not aware of? How much of a 
future would you guys think WO really has?


Kind Regards,
Jürgen


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