[libreoffice-website] Mailing list postings now with Archived-At header (direkt links to the corresponding message in the archive)

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

starting from now, all mails posted to the libreoffice mailinglists
will have an Archived-At header pointing to the corresponding message
in the archive at mail-archive.com.

No need to search in the the archive by date/by author or by summary
if you want to point others to the mail. If you got it locally, just
show all headers and copy and paste the link.

The header looks like this:

Archived-At: 

So visit the URL and you'll get to the corresponding message.

Thanks to mail-archive.com for making this possible and for the quick
fix of a bug on their end that was discovered while testing this
feature (for details on how it works, see
http://www.mail-archive.com/faq.html#listserver)

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5064 (RFC regarding Archived-At header)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Help creating the initial content of libreoffice.org - in terms of structure and content

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Alexander,

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Alexander Thurgood
 wrote:
> Le 13/11/10 17:48, Christian Lohmaier a écrit :
>
> As already requested a few days ago on the German list, please give me
> "Publisher" rights for the FR subproject and Author rights for the main
> (EN) site. I still have two translations into French from some of your
> German FAQs waiting to be approved, and until they are, I can't link
> them to the French subproject.

Sorry, must have missed it. You're added now.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] recent activity in CMS

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Drew,

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 5:07 PM, drew  wrote:
>
> First - could one of the site admins help me out here. Last week I
> managed to un-publish the lo.org/why/feature page - on that same day I
> also managed to remove that page from the draft site under the CMS.

I'm curious to know: why do you happen to delete that stuff in the
first place? Too impatient when klicking the buttons, so that you hit
it twice, but the second click hits a button with a different label,
do to the set of buttons now being different? Or put otherwise: What
could help prevent this?

First time I did undo that when that did happen, didn't I, and I also
explained how to recover yourself...
http://www.mail-archive.com/website@libreoffice.org/msg00980.html

But this time it is different Somehow invalid content ended up as the
content, that prevents the browser from displaying the following
elements (i.e. it doesn't render the footer when using
http://test.libreoffice.org/why/features/ (it is there in the
sourcecode, but the content that is added before causes the parts to
be hidden.

Content (as stored in the database)
\n

Re: [libreoffice-website] Odd / Frustrating Silverstripe behaviour

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Aleyander, *,

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Alexander Thurgood
 wrote:
>
> However, I notice that Silverstripe :
>
> 1) seems to freeze an awful lot : by this I mean that I have to force a
> manual refresh of the page in order to be able to reload another
> document from the site I am working on.

Never experienced that myself... (and got no reports in that direction
from other users yet)

> 2) If I click on the Switch Project button at the top of the main
> Silverstripe screen (in the middle of the page), everything seems to
> freeze. If I then refresh, I get taken back to the page I was working on
> previously. So it doesn't yet seem possible to switch between projects
> as I would have hoped.

Hmm - can you be more specific? When logged in as admin, I switch
between the projects all the time, without any problem, so I don't
quite understand. Can you explain this in more detail?

How is that "freeze" manifesting itself? Browser doesn't react
anymore? Or what is displayed?
If you got the firebug extension isntalled, does it show anything on
the error-console?

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Color of website

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Klaus-Jürgen, *,

On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 12:29 PM, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol
 wrote:
> Am 21.11.2010 03:43, schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
>>>
>>> The main headlines
>>> (h1, h2, h3) and all strong words are green1,
>>
>> ok, but I don't understand the reason to up-size h2 over the size of h1.
>
> I only changed the color. The root cause is that in the .CSS h1 is in a fix
> size (24px) and h2, h3 in a relative size (2em). For the reason we may ask
> Christian Lohmaier.

No reason besides that is what was there - I used silverstripe's
default theme (blackcandy) and hacked it until I got something that
had more or less the same appearance as www.documentfoundation.org

Writing clean css wasn't a top priority at that time :-)
The reason why h1 is hardcoded is because it is not used in the body
usually - just as with the wiki, default is to start the document with
level 2, h1 is the page title in the header/top-area.

> Perhaps we should do a special barrier-free website too
> (http://cocoate.com/de/barrierefreiheit-und-joomla bzw.
> http://cocoate.com/fr/joomla-15-francais/l-accessibilite-dans-joomla).
> Therefor I will ask Christian in a different thread. (But not at the start.)

accessibility is already accounted for by not using tables for the
layout at all, this should make all other efforts (including providing
a dedicated stylesheet or similar) a lot easier

Thanks a lot you two for tackling this - I'll change the testbed page
at http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780 to use the updated style in the next
minutes, then I'd love to see feedback from other people as well.

Not getting feedback can have two main causes: People are fine with
the current status/don't see the need for change, or they don't see
any hope in making a change. I hope people don't hesitate to comment
because it will result in some work for other people (not necessarily
themselves)..

ciao
Christian

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] For those who want to work on the CSS / code / missing translations on the CMS

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Andrea. *,

On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Andrea Pescetti
 wrote:
> On 13/11/2010 Christian Lohmaier wrote:
>
> Thanks! Is it (at least theoretically) possible to do something similar
> with the actual site content? We had a brief exchange about this back in
> October, but we didn't come to a clear conclusion.

No - at least not that way. But within the CMS, you can expand the
"Versions" taskpane on the left, below the sitetree and choose to
compare two versions.

While this won't give you a source-diff, it will show you difference
in content, which probably is more useful anyway.

>> I created a snapshot of fr.test.libreoffice.org for offline use:
>> https://website.test.libreoffice.org/assets/website/export/frhtml.tar.gz
>
> So I see that making a snapshot is possible, and this is already quite
> good; I would just like to know whether there is a way (it doesn't have
> to be graphical) to track individual changes to the pages, like
> http://it.openoffice.org/source/browse/it/www/download/3.2.1/download321.html?r1=1.11&r2=1.12

No - such a view doesn't exist currently. (It would be possible to
implement it though). But before I'll look into this, the other parts
of the site should be ready :-)

ciao
Christian

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[libreoffice-website] Download-Selector Script - Feedback wanted

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

(cc the german list, as some discussion has happened there in the
past, but please f'up2 the website list)

as I didn't quite like the idea of adding an external
"gather-the-downloads" script via an iframe to the site and rather
have a solution that can be cached in future, I added the
functionality to silverstripe itself.

http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/home/download-and-sub/

Please give feedback, what do you think about it (also about the
expandable full list below the "convenience selectors", whether it is
preferable to have the torrent as a toggle-option or just add a
"()" after every regular link.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] printing the website

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Flo, Volker, *,

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Volker Merschmann  wrote:
> 2010/11/23 Florian Effenberger :
>> I just wanted to print out http://www.documentfoundation.org/contact/
>> At least using Firefox, the tabs on the top of the page look really
>> strange... can someone confirm?
>>
> I can confirm with Firefox on Windows. Nowadays most Websites are not
> suitable for printing.

In this case, the problem is that it tries to be suitable for printing
- it includes a dedicated stylesheet for printing - but that one is
buggy...

It doesn't account for the additional URL of the page-header. Probably
the author of the stylesheet at the time didn't think of the page's
main title to be changed into a URL, thus the homepage link
(http://www.documentfoundation.org/ overlaps with the navigation
heading

Second (minor) problem is that the horizontal space is not enough to
fit all menu items in the same line, FAQ is pushed to a seperate line.

So bottom line: The addition of the URL-targets for all URLs is to blame here.

/css/blueprint/print.css →
a:link:after, a:visited:after {
  content: " (" attr(href) ") ";
  font-size: 90%;
}
should either be disabled for div#header div#tagline a (or h1 a) or it
should add some spacing element as well to push the navbar further
down.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Proposed Drupal Frontpage and Genral pages theme -- Drupal Web. Dev. Team

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Marc, *,

On the one hand nice to see that the drupal efforts are making
progress, sad on the other hand that you're also "hiding" the work not
related to drupal itself within the drupal group.

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Marc Paré  wrote:
>
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DrupalFrontpage120.png
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DrupalGeneral120.png
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DrupalTheme_Changelog.odt
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:DrupalIA.odt

I think they're nice - but then again not tied to drupal, I don't see
anything that cannot be added to silverstripe for example, but that
aside:

I mainly want to remind me that no matter what we have next year, we
will need content up on the site for the release of 3.3.0 much
earlier.

So no matter whether you work on drupal or not, please also think
about the present, not only about the future.

Don't get me wrong please, but I still see that we are lacking content
to put up on the site, be it a drupal one or silverstripe. Without
content, just with nice theme you don't gain anything...

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] printing the website

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Florian, *,

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Florian Effenberger
 wrote:
> Christian Lohmaier wrote on 2010-11-23 14.58:
>> [...]
> thanks for investigating! Can this easily be done?

debugging print style css is kind of annoying task - but I added some
rules that should render it better now. I removed the links from the
header area (also from the navigation tabs), and don't force their
size to 100px, so that they have a chance to fit on one single line,
also tweaked other stuff like margins/padding to make it render a
little more space-efficiently.

I added these statements:

div#header a:after {
  content: "";
}
ul#nav {
  font-size: 80%;
  float: right;
  width: 100%;
  min-width: 0;
}
ul#nav li a {
  width: auto;
  height: auto;
  margin-left: 1em;
}
div#container {
  width: 100%;
}
div#container > h2:first-child {
  margin-top: 0.6em;
  padding-top: 0;
}


> Interestingly, from time to time, when connecting through UMTS, I see the
> same page error...

Then that browser for some reason prefers to render the page with the
"print" output selection, rather than the default "screen" type...

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] SilverStripe English Editor

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Michael,

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Michael Wheatland
 wrote:
> I have signed up for Silverstripe under the username Wheatbix.
> Can you please provide write privileges.

You're added - login to the cms via
https://test.libreoffice.org/admin

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Proposed Drupal Frontpage and Genral pages theme -- Drupal Web. Dev. Team

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 9:38 PM, Michael Wheatland
 wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:20 AM, Christian Lohmaier
>  wrote
>> So no matter whether you work on drupal or not, please also think
>> about the present, not only about the future.
>
> I have signed up under the name Wheatbix. Can you give me authority on
> the site to publish

Thanks for also posting in a seperate thread and sorry for the delay.

> Can you also point me towards instructions on how to work silverstripe
> and if there is any planning regarding the content.

It is pretty straightforward. After you login to the system, you're
presented with a site-tree hierarchy.
http://frupic.frubar.net/16822
to create a new page, select the page that the new page should be a
child of and use the "create page" button. From the list of available
page-types choose "Page" for a regular page and click add. Then start
adding the title and content to the editor-area.

Use the buttons at the bottom to save / request publication / save and publish.
On the behaviour tab you can select whether it should be listed in the
menu and change the pagetype for an existing page to another one, in
case it is needed.
To rearrange pages, enable the "use drag and drop to reorganize"
function in the site-tree area and use drag and drop to move the page
in the hierarchy.

To upload files/images, go to the Files & Images section. Again it
should be pretty straightforward - there is a folder-hierarchy with
the ability to create new folders, and the folder's themselves have an
"upload" tab where you can upload files from your disk.

in case of any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Proposed Drupal Frontpage and Genral pages theme -- Drupal Web. Dev. Team

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Marc, *,

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:27 PM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> Le 2010-11-23 15:38, Michael Wheatland a écrit :
>
> let me know if you need anymore help. I will help out too. :-)

Help is always needed, and you're more than welcome to help out :-)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Proposed Drupal Frontpage and Genral pages theme -- Drupal Web. Dev. Team

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Alexandro, *,

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Michael Wheatland
 wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:53 PM, Alexandro Colorado  
> wrote:
>> ok thanks for the info. However I still wonder how adaptive is this theme,
>> does it uses % and adaptive rules?
>
> This question is less about the theme and more about the underlying
> infrastructure.

No, it is a property of the theme, as the underlying infrastructure
just produces html, and how that html then looks is up the the css.

It is the job of the CMS, be it Drupal or Silverstripe to produce html
that can be turned into whatever the designer wants it to be. (I know
silverstripe is flexible enough here, and I'd be surprised if drupal
couldn't be convinced into outputting whatever is neede as well).

The hard thing is when you need to bias style/visual appearance
against "works on every possible screen size".  But that is no
limitation of the CMS, but the css/styling itself. you cannot just
shrink everything for a smaller screensize for example.

The more eye-candy you add, the more difficult it gets of course.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Proposed Drupal Frontpage and Genral pages theme -- Drupal Web. Dev. Team

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Marc, *,

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> Le 2010-11-24 11:11, Christian Lohmaier a écrit :
>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:27 PM, Marc Paré  wrote:
>>> Le 2010-11-23 15:38, Michael Wheatland a écrit :
>>>
>>> let me know if you need anymore help. I will help out too. :-)
>>
>> Help is always needed, and you're more than welcome to help out :-)
>
> I'll check in with Michael and see where if he needs help with this. He is
> considerably quicker with this than I am. Can you also give me authority to
> publish as well to save some time.

Sure - but you need to create an account first
https://test.libreoffice.org/ForumMemberProfile/register

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Proposed Drupal Frontpage and Genral pages theme -- Drupal Web. Dev. Team

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Marc,

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Marc Paré  wrote:
>
> Thanks. I have registered as " marcpare "

And you're added (login via http[s]://test.libreoffice.org/admin )

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Proposed Drupal Frontpage and Genral pages theme -- Drupal Web. Dev. Team

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Marc,

On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> Le 2010-11-24 16:08, Marc Paré a écrit :
>>
>> Le 2010-11-24 13:51, Christian Lohmaier a écrit :
>>>
>>> Hi Marc,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Marc Paré wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks. I have registered as " marcpare "
>>>
>>> And you're added (login via http[s]://test.libreoffice.org/admin )
>>>
>>> ciao
>>> Christian
>>>
>>
>> Thanks Christian
>>
>> Marc
>>
>>
>
> Michael and Christian:
>
> I have worked a bit on the "Support" section of the site. Just roughed in.
> There was a problem with adding an extra line at the bottom of the page. I
> wanted to add more text, but every time I did an "Enter" on my keyboard, the
> input window blinks and some text goes missing. I didn't have enough time to
> check out the reason for this as I am off to an appointment. Try adding a
> blank line at the bottom of the page in edit mode after the
> "Mail-Archive.com"

Well - the text doesn't vanish, there just is a big amount of
whitespace that causes the content to scroll out of the viewing area.
This is explained easily by looking at the corresponding html-source:

us...@libreoffice.org: User support list for
LibreOfficeSubscription: mailto:users+subscr...@libreoffice.org";>users+subscr...@libreoffice.org
Digest subscription: mailto:users+subscribe-dig...@libreoffice.org";>users+subscribe-dig...@libreoffice.org
Archives: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/users/";>http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/users/
Mail-Archive.com: http://www.mail-archive.com/us...@libreoffice.org/";>http://www.mail-archive.com/us...@libreoffice.org/


I don't know where you pasted from/how you pasted - but the
"min-heigt:1000px" is causing the problem in this case.

div tags with that declaration are added multiple times in the code.

Would be interesting how they were added - whether they were already
in the source or whether they were added by your browser while
pasting.

(When copy'n'paste from existing webpages, I usually use the browser's
html-view and copy the sourcecode and copy it into the html-source
view of the editor)

> I also had the same problem with the text reads: Traffic on the mailist may
> at times be busy and informative.
> Note that ..."

> I tried to add a blank line there and the input window would blink again and
> remove blocks of text.

Well, not remove, but scroll out of sight.

> http://test.libreoffice.org/support/
>
> I'll try again later.

I'll remove the unnecessary divs, then everything should behave as expected.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Stefan Weigel
 wrote:
>
> Am 05.12.2010 19:05, schrieb Samuel Gómez:
>
> The website people already came up with this solution on an other
> test site:
>
> http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/home/download-and-sub/
>
> This already detects the Operating System. I don´t know why they
> haven´t integrated this into http://www.test.libreoffice.org/ yet.

Basically lack of time, wanted to clean it up a bit before publishing it.

But I guess I should just take it as it is now and publish it on the
production site before people start duplicating work..

> Generally, I would recommend to avoid client-side scripting and
> replace it by server-side scripting, whenever possible.

The reason for not using server-side scripting is to be able to have
caching in place, serve more or less static pages.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Samuel, *,

2010/12/6 Samuel Gómez :
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Carlos Jenkins  wrote:

[...]

If possible, please add the additional checks it to the script used on
the downlaod page at
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/home/download-and-sub/

I'll commit it to the git repo at https://github.com/tdf/cms-code
later today and also push it  to the live site.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Samuel, *,

2010/12/6 Samuel Gómez :
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:13 PM, Christian Lohmaier
>  wrote:
>> 2010/12/6 Samuel Gómez :
>>> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Carlos Jenkins  
>>> wrote:
>> [...]
> Whether is
> http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/home/download-and-sub/
> the source or the target of the changes,

Both. pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780 is the staging area for modifcations of
the CMS - stuff in the core will be changed/modified there before
they're pushed to the git repo and before those changes end up on
test.libreoffice.org.

So when the detection doesn't work for some browser/OS, please change
the JS used by the above page, I'll then update it on pumbaa and later
then on the test.libreoffice.org site.

> I advance that I'm not yet
> familiarized with that code. I see it auto-detects things client-side
> but I've not been able to locate the magic yet.

Well - it is basic javascript (the detection, the modification of the
controls also makes use of jquery).

>> I'll commit it to the git repo at https://github.com/tdf/cms-code
>> later today and also push it  to the live site.

The changes are pushed:

Code that creates the data for further processing by the template (i.e
code that parses the rsync output):
https://github.com/tdf/cms-code/blob/master/mysite/code/DownloadPage.php

The javascript that is used for OS/language detection and handles the
interaction (expanding/collapsing the full list below the convenience
dropdowns, handles the BT toggle):
https://github.com/tdf/cms-code/blob/master/mysite/javascript/download.js

The actual template that assembles the page:
https://github.com/tdf/cms-themes/blob/master/tdf/templates/Layout/DownloadPage.ss

note the <% cached "rsync", RsyncRefresh %>  <% end_cached %>
block - stuff therein is only evaluated when the arguments ("rsync" -
a static string, thus never triggers a change by itself) and the
function RsyncRefresh return a different value than the last time the
page was requested/assembled.

This partial caching is the first, most basic level of caching that
silverstripe can do. Thus when the load on the server is OK, just
using this kind of caching would make it possible to do some
server-based OS/lanaguage detection (by putting that outside of the
cached block).

> Excuse me. I will not be able to read your answer until tomorrow (+10 hours).

No problem, I'm more than happy that people are trying to help out :-)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Download page changed?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 10:06 PM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> I made some pages that reproduce some of the content on the live
> site..

Please copy and paste html sourcecode - the way you pasted converted
the css styles to inline styles.

item1item2

was turned into:

http://www.documentfoundation.org/img/controls/li-bullet-single-dark.png);
background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial;
background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; display: block;
color: #00; background-position: 4px 8px; background-repeat:
no-repeat no-repeat; border: 0px initial initial;">The Windows build
is an International build - you can choose the user interface language
that is suitable for you. The help content is not included. We are
working on at online version of the help content. It will be
optionally available for separate installation.


If you need styles that are not yet available, just ask and they'll be added...

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Download page changed?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Stefan, *,

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:14 AM, Stefan Weigel
 wrote:
> Am 06.12.2010 22:06, schrieb David Nelson:
>
> Sorry, but I don´t understand what you are doing. Are you trying to
> replicate www.documentfoundation.org at www.test.libreoffice.org?
> Does this make any sense?

Doesn't make sense, (and if you would think it does, you'd simply copy
from pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page changed?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Stefan, *,

On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Stefan Weigel
 wrote:
>
> Besides some severe style flaws it again lacks of a convenient
> possibility for finding the adequate download packages e.g.
> deb-Files or language packs.

I added the autmatic download-creation/selection page from pumbaa (see
previous mails) to the test.libreoffice.org site and created (yet
another, not linked in the menu yet) page:

https://test.libreoffice.org/download-3/

I did split the Release notes to a seperate page, as IMHO it is better
to have one page with releasenotes (that also has the release notes of
previous builds) than having to maintain it on the download page
itself.
Makes the pages less crowded.

If you want buttons for the downloads instead of links: Can be done of
course, all a matter of providing the right css.

The current buttons are not suitable though, as not enough info is included.

We would need buttons that
Distinguish all and multi installers on windows
Distinguish full installers from languagepacks on other OS
Distinguish rpm and deb on linux (combined with the langpack/full distinction)
Distinguish Mac/intel from Mac/ppc (also combined with sperating full
from languagepack installer)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download convenience, here and now?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Stefan Weigel
 wrote:
> Am 07.12.2010 12:34, schrieb David Nelson:
>
>> Our users are *not* supposed to be downloading from the test site.
>
> I do not propose that users download from the test site. I am asking
> for quick improvement of the currently official download page
> http://www.documentfoundation.org/download/.
>
>> test.libreoffice.org is a test and staging facility
>
> No, it´s the construction site.

Yes, exactly. When going live just the "test" will be removed from the
URL, but the contents will be the same.

> The test site is: http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780

Correct again. All technical stuff affecting the CMS will be tried out
there before going live.
Also if you want to try major changes to the theme (the css), I'm
happy to try them out on pumbaa first.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: LibO-3.3-rc1 download icons still mentions "beta"

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Bernhard, *,

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Bernhard Dippold
 wrote:
> Florian Effenberger schrieb:
>> [Buttons for downloads refer to beta, need updating]
>
> But as this page will probably not survive the next weekend, I don't know if
> it is worthwhile to update the graphics.
>
> As Christian asked to remove these buttons or to provide a lot more of
> them[1], I'd wait for the website team for their opinion.
>
> [1]: http://go.mail-archive.com/vjgRhybcXUeO0DID6G3F3noyEDw=

Yes, I'd love to have different buttons to be able to distinguish the
various OS and architectures we have, and also put non-english
(languagepacks) on the same level as english.
(and I also forgot about BT, that could be symbolized by adding two
up/downward facing arrows)

IMHO it is bad to have a big button for english-only download, and
then have the user to find a tiny, regular link for their language.
(or not being able to distinguish rpm from deb, x86_64 from x86)
But I'm open for suggestions, as long as it can be done with css, I'm
happy to add it...

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download convenience, here and now?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Samuel,

2010/12/7 Samuel Gómez :
> As a first shot, this script hides unwanted list items.
> [...]
> http://vipinnova.com/libreoffice/download/transitional/

Sorry, but what problem of the current version
(https://test.libreoffice.org/download-3/ or
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/home/download-and-sub/ )

does it solve? What are "unwanted list items" on those pages?

I surely don't want to prevent a linux user from downloading a Windows
version, or a Mac user from downloading Linux, or a 32bit user from
downloading 64bit, etc.

So very bad from my POV.

> Bad: It still ignores .debs and langpacks.
> Good: Does not require any change on the page, but adding the code itself.

Changing the page itself would not be a problem.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: LibO-3.3-rc1 download icons still mentions "beta"

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Cor, *,

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Cor Nouws  wrote:
> [...]
> You'll probably be aware off the discussion around the packaging /
> installation. This might influence the work that is needed in the end...

I don't thing that stuff will change for LInux and Mac - i.e. english
full installer + languagepacks.

I agree that it just doesn't make sense to have 150MB for each
language (and that duplicated for the various variants, mac intel, mac
ppc, linux deb x86, linux rpm x86, linux deb x86_64, linux rpm x86_64
wasting diskspace on the mirrors. 1GB per language (and per release)
just is too much.

Also installation of those systems is easy anyway, don't require an
installation dialog.
on linux you use something similar to  "rpm -Uhv *rpm" to install both
the main installer as well as the languagepack, on Mac you drag'n'drop
the main installer to whatever location you want it to install to, and
then lauch the languagepack installer, pick the installation location
of the full installation (when there are multiple ones) and confirm,
installation done.

You don't need to switch locale in the options, since it will default
to the language of the OS anyway, and only fall back to english if the
languages don't match.

On windows things might change (I also thing that the multi installers
are bad in various ways, especially as it lacks help), but let's see
how it turns out in the end.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Put a link crediting SilverStripe at page bottom (at least)

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David,

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 4:18 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> One thing I do on my own sites is to put a link in the page bottom
> "Powered by Open Source software". That link goes to a page containing
> a list of some of the software used on the server: the Linux distrib
> used, Apache, PHP, MySQL, the CMS I'm using, and various other stuff
> that people use continually and practically never mention. IMHO, the
> very least courtesy is to put a link to the SilverStripe project, for
> instance.

I'd rather not do that, since it is already decided that silverstripe
is only used until drupal is deployed.

I would of course love to stick with silverstripe, but that's the plan...

So when now the LO site shows off silverstripe in big letters, and
only a few month later silverstripe is replaced by drupal, people
might jump to conclusions like "Silverstripe couldn't cope with the
load, wasn't powerful enough, thus it was replaced by drupal".

This surely is not the case, but this is what I fear will happen.

> Good idea?

Not sure, see above.
Silverstripe is "credited" in the source of every page:
http://silverstripe.org"; />

Giving that the move to  drupal is already decided, I fear that
crediting silverstripe might actually have a bad effect, not a
positive one.

But if you can suggest a suitable wording that makes this perfectly
clear: Why not.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Samuel, *,

2010/12/7 Samuel Gómez :
> [...]
> What's your user agent? (you'll find it under "It works based on your user
> agent string, which in your case is")

Change the default to rpm instead of deb, that should give more
suitable fallback anyway.

https://test.libreoffice.org/download-3/

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Carlos, *,

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 5:06 PM, Carlos Jenkins  wrote:
> 2010/12/7 Christian Lohmaier
> 
>> 2010/12/7 Samuel Gómez :
>> > [...]
>> > What's your user agent? (you'll find it under "It works based on your
>> user
>> > agent string, which in your case is")
>>
>> Change the default to rpm instead of deb, that should give more
>> suitable fallback anyway.
>>
> A lot of Distros and configuration doesn't show the Distro, so, why RPM?

Because those that do, are debian based.

> As
> Samuel stated, based on statistics, the more common is DEB,

What statistics please?

> so let put the
> default the DEB one.

Even if overall downloads would be more deb than rpm, then those with
"unknown" system would be rpm in majority, as debian rebrands firefox,
etc, and ubuntu also modifies user-agent string. RPM based distros
usually don't.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Carlos Jenkins  wrote:
> 2010/12/7 Christian Lohmaier
> 
> What statistics please?
>
> http://distrowatch.com/stats.php?section=popularity

distrowatch is hardly representative.

> Put Mint, Ubuntu and Debian and you have the bigger chunk.

Ubuntu and debian identify themselves, so what remains?

>  Even if overall downloads would be more deb than rpm, then those with
>>
> "unknown" system would be rpm in majority,
>
> You're based on what to say that?

Just look at the default browser in ubuntu or debian: The user agent
string is modified to contain ubuntu/debian. Thus all that
"statistics" is void, as it is not relevant for the decistion it is
used as argument for.

Even if the distrowatch statistics would reflect the real user
distribution, the biggest hunk of Ubuntu already is out of the
question - and the bias strongs shifts towards rpm.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Website Design Package Available & Checklist Question (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: LibO-3.3-rc1 download icons still mentions "beta")

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Christoph, *,

On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 11:40 PM, Christoph Noack  wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 07.12.2010, 13:33 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
> [...]
>> As Christian asked to remove these buttons or to provide a lot more of
>> them[1], I'd wait for the website team for their opinion.
> [...]
> Thus, although the script solution may look odd, it is the superior
> solution, or?

Oh, if you got the impression that all button shall be displayed at
once, then no, this is not the case. The only thing I had in mind was
to turn the filtered links, the ones matching the dropdown selection
into buttons. So there would be at most two shown at a time, but of
course different ones depending on what the user chooses for
OS/language.

So the minimum is to have windows multi and windows all, and for the
others "full installer" and "language pack" buttons.

> And since I am a bit lost in the recent discussions - is
> there any agreement what script / site design to use?

The script here: http://test.libreoffice.org/download-3 the stuff
starting with the selection listboxes is automatically generated, and
hopefully the javascript based selection will preselect the proper
version for >90% of the visitors.

> May it be helpful
> to have a look at it - from the Design Team's perspective (usability and
> such stuff)?

Well - sure, feedback is welcome, although design is pretty much left
to css. Feedback is always welcome though.

> New topic ...
> [checklist to not forget things like updating beta→rc1 and stuff]

Yes, this surely would be helpful, although this time rc1 was kind of
rushed out because of slight misunderstandings.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Carol, *.

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:13 AM, Carlos Jenkins  wrote:
> Again, for Christian:
>
> [Debian] Chrome

Chrome is not default browser in debian. It's not even in official repositories.
(at least I couldn't find it at packages.debian.org

> [Debian] Iceweasel

Iceweasel is debian only anyway. No rpm based distro has a browser
named "iceweasel"

That it isn't taking iceweasel into account yet is a minor flaw in the
script, and then even cuts more share of deb away from the
"undetected" ones.

> [Ubuntu] SeaMonkey

Wow, what a deal. You found corner cases of users not using the
default browser(s) of the distro. There will *always* be exceptions of
the rule

But again those cases are irrelevant when writing "The whole world
uses ubuntu, thus the fallbacks hould be deb".

Those who use ubuntu, use vast majority of those at least use the
default browser in ubuntu which identifies itself as being ubuntu.

The examples you give only state that:
Debian users who use chrome are not detected (but honestly, how many
debian users will use chrome?)
Ubuntu users who use Seamonkey will not be detected. But again: How
big is the share of Seamonkey users of all ubuntu users?

And: Don't you think that people who're not using the browser that is
installed by default, even go to the point in adding extra
repositories to their system are advanced enough to manually select
the package format?

Again: Only the unclear case counts. And if Ubuntu and debian users
can easily be detected (when using default browsers), than those
users, no matter how much, don't come into the equation anymore. As
simple as that.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Carol

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Carlos Jenkins  wrote:
>
> Well, as I suggested before and Sed did it again, when not detected the
> Script should prompt the user to select the distro, as the Banshee site
> does, and the Opera one too.

I give you the same advice that you were giving me: Read throught the
thread, then you'd have known that my solution (and the one from
Stefan before) already does that from the very beginning.

http://test.libreoffice.org/download-3

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Samuel, *,

2010/12/8 Samuel Gómez :
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Christian Lohmaier
>  wrote:
>>
>> http://test.libreoffice.org/download-3
>
> That solution simply pre-selects rpm;

No - it just defaults to rpm when no decision could be made.

>  does not prompt the user to
> select the distro.

It does the same as the Opera page does: Tries to guess the right
thing, but still offers the user to choose.
Opera page wrongly detects ubuntu deb (I'm on Mandriva and thus rpm),
but lets me choose mandriva with the controls. The same with the
downloadpage.

I surely don't want a popup-style prompt to force the user click a
dialog away or something.

What the page doesn't do yet, is to check for iceweasel explicitly.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] FR site ready

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Sophie, Guy, *,

Great to hear that fr team is ready !

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Guy Lunardi  wrote:
>
> Checking the pages' behavior from my Blackberry I noticed that on the FR site 
> the alternate text for the top level menu bar (green button) is not localized.

Also great to here that this is the only thing you complain - That
means the site works quite well on the Blackberry otherwise :-)

> It reads for the 'Acceuil' page: "Go to the Bienvenue ! page".
>
> Simply mouseover the menu button and you will notice it.
>
> Might be a JS script issue we need to localization-enable for all site. Can't 
> check it from here.

In this case, the text is not localized using javascript, but by
silverstripe itself - but as you see the trenslation is missing (for
all languages). So care to povide a corresponding translation? (use %s
as the placeholder for the page title)

For german it could look like:

$lang['de_DE']['Navigation']['GOTOPAGE'] = '"Gehe zu »%s«"';

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] FR site ready

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Sophie, *,

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:59 PM, Sophie Gautier  wrote:
> On 08/12/2010 20:44, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
>> [...]
>> Also great to here that this is the only thing you complain - That
>> means the site works quite well on the Blackberry otherwise :-)
>
> Is it a great news if it works on a Blacberry? ;-)

That it works on a Blackberry in the sense of works non mobile
devices: sure, great news - if it works on a blackberry, it should
work on other mobile browsers as well :-) (and if not, only slight
modifications will be necessary)

>> [Go to page link not translated]
>> For german it could look like:
>>
>> $lang['de_DE']['Navigation']['GOTOPAGE'] = '"Gehe zu »%s«"';
>
> ah, yes, I remember you spoke about that, localization, and I notice also
> that "acceuil" should be "accueil". I'll take a look at it in the next days.

In general if you spot something that should be translated, but is
not, please tell, so it can be fixed.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page changed?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Stefan, *,

On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 7:46 AM, Stefan Weigel
 wrote:
> Am 07.12.2010 07:31, schrieb Stefan Weigel:
>
> Sorry, I can´t translate this particular page, because I do not see
> how its content is managed.

Well - it is automatically generated, thus it doesn't make sense to
duplicate it in the editor window... In the current form it is just
appended to the content from the editor window

> I do not see the published content or
> any code that produces the content in edit mode. And I do not see
> the published contentor any code that produces the content in HTML
> view of the editor, either.

The code that generates the actual list is here:
https://github.com/tdf/cms-code/blob/master/mysite/code/DownloadPage.php

The result is turned into HTML by this:
https://github.com/tdf/cms-themes/blob/master/tdf/templates/Layout/DownloadPage.ss

The javascript that creates the filtered output is here:
https://github.com/tdf/cms-code/blob/master/mysite/javascript/download.js
(but that one is visible from the site as well)

I'm not sure what is the best way to translate it yet. Either by using
hidden paragraphs or divs with the strings and fetch them from there,
or if it is wanted to display strings from different languages from
within the string by calling a different function of the controller
and add it on-the-fly.
Or with the silverstripe way of translating strings (i.e. using the
equivalent of po files in the cms itself
http://api.silverstripe.org/2.4/sapphire/misc/i18n.html#class_details
i.e. using  ss.i18n._t('MyEntity.MyNamespace','My default natural
language value');
in the script or just _t(...) in the template.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: CMS Workflow: LibreOffice - Page: International - Status: Completed

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Stefan,

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Stefan Weigel
 wrote:
> Am 09.12.2010 23:56, schrieb CMS:

>>
>> iframes removed, but div with min-heigt 1000px remained →
>> delete it as well
>
> Ok. How else can we force a minimum page height, so that every page
> is higher than usual screens? By this, we would have a vertical
> scrollbar on every page.

*IF* we want this (I personally don't), then this obviously must be
put into the global CSS-stylesheet, and not done by adding hacks like
a div with min-heigt to the content of each and every page.

> Otherwise we have pages with scrollbar and pages without scrollbar,
> which makes the pages shifting left/right when navigating through
> the site. (At least when using Firefox)

That doesn't bother me personally.
But having lots of emtpy space below the real content makes me think
there's something wrong with the page.

So again if we really want this, then html {height:100%;
margin-bottom:1px;} is /way/ better than having a huge diff around.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 5:38 PM, plino  wrote:
>
> I really like the new download script.
>
> Would it be possible to display the file size in front of each file?

Sure - thanks for the suggestion. I'll add that later today.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] FAQ Tab

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 6:55 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 13:32, Sophie Gautier  
> wrote:
>>
>> Could you please bring the FAQ Tab back on the EN site because we have it in
>> our l10n files :
>> "There is a string called "Also check the FAQ section at > http://www.libreoffice.org/faq/\";>http://www.libreoffice.org/faq/."".
>
>
> There will be a FAQ but not top level, there's no space. FAQ will be a
> sub-page, it would be better if you change your links, sorry... :-(

Of course there could still be a "not-shown-in-menus" redirector page
that links to the actual location.

Would also be handy as that way you don't have to remember the gethelp
parent when posting a reply "It's a faq, look here:
(http://www.libreoffice.org/faq)"

ciao
Christian

ciao
christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Danishka, *,

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Danishka Navin  wrote:
>
> It would be better if we can set the dropdown menu for 'locales'  in
> alphabetical order.

Well - it is in alphabetical order, but taking the native localename
as sort-key.

> en-US should be in the default value

Sorry, don't understand what you mean. Do you mean your browser is set
to accept en-US, but it is not preselected? Or do I misunderstand?

> but once click on the drop-down it
> should list all locales in an order.

It does - *E*nglish comes after *D*eutsch, but before *I*rish for example.

The reason not to sort by iso-locale was that someone remarked that
people usually don't know what this is about.

> http://test.libreoffice.org/download/

The expandable lists below are sorted by ISO-identifier, thus when you
expand "LibreOffice, the productivity suite", then for example Mac PPC
→ Languagepacks, you'll see the list sorted by iso

If more people think it should be sorted by iso in the dropdown, I'll
change it back to sort by iso - I don't have a strong opinion on it.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #3 SilverStripe site Downloads page fixes

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 5:33 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> IMHO, the Downloads page would need a few last fixes to make it perfect:
>
> 1) Eliminate gap between 2 list items

Oh, I'd rather keep it, as it delimits two different way to select
stuff. The automatically added downloadlinks (one for english, two for
other languages/windows below the dropdowns) are those matching the
selection.

The items below are used for "advanced" usage scenarios, i.e. someone
wanting to get more than one languagepack and stuff like that (then
the user would expand the list below)

> 2) Change the words "Full installer" to "full installer" (eliminate
> capitalization)

Sure - no problem.

> 3) Make the entire unordered list "ul-libreoffice" class, i.e.  class="ul-libreoffice">

I'd rather not do that , as that needs quite a bit of horizontal
space, and when the list is expanded, it will need to linebreak even
more than it already does now...

Furthermore using the triangle-style list would put more attention to
it, but it is not meant to be an eyecatcher, but rather an advanced
convenience function.

> 4) Eliminate un-needed list item at bottom.

I don't think it's un-needed, or to put it otherwise: it is just as
unneeded as the source and SDK downloads, as most users will not touch
that area of the page, since they're only interested in getting LO
itself.

But when you want to download multiple languages at once, then
expanding the list and just "click-as-many-links-as-you-can" is more
convenient than having to go to the dropdown, change language, click
on the link, click the dropdown, change language, click on the
link,

> For illustration, see screenshot [1].
>
> [1] 
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/1/19/Libo-screenshot-6.png

Thanks, it helps to visualize things :-)

But as mentioned before, the only thing I's personally change is the
wording/spelling of full installer.

But again, I can change it of course if other people think the same

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #4 SilverStripe site left side menu title capitalization fix

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David,

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 5:47 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> Menu title needs to be capitalized through addition of this style to
> the style sheet:
>
> div.sidebarBox h3 { text-transform:capitalize }

Well - or by removing
text-transform: lowercase; from #Sidebar h3

Don't need to undo stuff when you don't do that stuff in the first place :-)

Did add it to the stylesheet-proposal mentioned earlier
http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Website-LO6.PNG

That I'm going to add to the test.libreoffice.org later today as well.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #5 SilverStripe site International page fix

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David,

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 8:27 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> On the International page, would it be possible to apply this style to
> the NL sites list:
>
> 

Not /that/ easy (I could need help from css experts on that one then)

The list is currenlty rendered with display:table[-row|-cell], in
order to have the languages aligned.
If I just add the ul-libreoffice class, this will cause the triangle
to displaye for each child of the li as well, not just for the li -
and the margins are ignored as well, resulting in the triangle to be
written over the text.

So if anyone has a nice css way of aligning items without using
fixed-width divs, then please tell me...

I mean the following

 shortinfoA
 loonginfoB


I want "infoA" and "infoB" to start at the same horizontal position, i.e not

short infoA
loong infoB

but have infoA move to the right, to the same horizontal position as infoB

This works nicely with the display:table-row for the li and
display:table-cell for the children of li.
(with the abovementioned drawback of not being able to style the list
as requested).

So please css-experts/website hackers: How would you do it?

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #1 Fix SilverStripe site footer

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *;

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 4:44 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
> Hi Christian, :-)
>
> IMHO, the footer of the test.libreoffice.org site needs a revised text
> (see below),

Thanks for that!
I added the revised text to the repo and will be pushed with the theme
changes later today.

> IMHO, the text would be
> better formatted in ITALICS.

Not sure about that, as italics then again draw attention to it, wouldn't it?

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #4 SilverStripe site left side menu title capitalization fix

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 7:48 PM, David Nelson  wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 00:18, Christian Lohmaier
>  wrote:
>>> Menu title needs to be capitalized through addition of this style to
>>> the style sheet:
>>>
>>> div.sidebarBox h3 { text-transform:capitalize }
>>
>> Well - or by removing
>> text-transform: lowercase; from #Sidebar h3
>
> OK, whatever solution works. ;-) As long as the menu titles are capitalized. 
> ;-)

:-)

>> Did add it to the stylesheet-proposal mentioned earlier
>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Website-LO6.PNG
>>
>> That I'm going to add to the test.libreoffice.org later today as well.

The change is done. In case you see a broken logo at the top, do a
force-refresh/clear your browser's cache. You should see the full logo
(document-icon + LibreOffice label) instead of only the document icon)

> The above is the side menu design [1] that, IMVHO, is the best. Do you
> think it might be possible to get that implemented by Monday, by any
> chance? It would be *so* nice if we can get the site to publishable
> state by Thursday... ;-)

I just pushed it to test.libreoffice.org in order to tune the details
/ get broader feedback.

> [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/7/7e/Website-LO6.PNG

It's not 100% the same, as no background is added for the not-selected case.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #1 Fix SilverStripe site footer

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 2:18 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
> Hi Christian, :-)
>
> Couple of small fixes to the footer (see screenshot [1]):
>
> 1) Add closing bracket and period to the end of the footer text:  ).
>
> 2) Add "left-margin: 10px" to the CC logo graphic.

Thanks for noticing - fixed.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] What's the official policy about the LibO website: Drupal or no Drupal?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Narayan, *,

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 7:55 AM, Narayan Aras  wrote:
> [...]
> It is difficult to believe that both sites are the result of the same 
> product-brief.
> One of them is clearly not meeting the customer's intrinsic needs.

The drupal development should focus about the technical aspects, not
about the content. If the drupal team would care about the content,
then they should do the discussion about that on the public list.

> As I said before, any future-proof CMS is fine provided someone has done 
> careful feature-comparison.
> Especially for the features that are required by the different stakeholders.

You're a couple of months late. We had that discussion already. and
silverstripe does meet all relevant needs.

> Can SilverStripe or Drupal meet these needs better?
> I have not seen any study put on line.

Has been done in the past. Executive summary "Silverstripe: Does it
out of the box, drupal has so many modules, so surely it can do the
same and more and has a bigger fanbase/more users worldwide" However
the drupal demonstration sites sucked badly at the time, thus SC did
vote for going live with Silverstripe.

That there has not been much content on the site surely is not the
fault of silverstripe. I'm very disappointed about this as well, but
the reason is that almost nobody did provide content to put up on the
site.

Thankfully David and Italo did jump in and are working hard to get
some content up that is good enough to make the switch from
"test.libreoffice.org" to "[www.]libreoffice.org"

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #3 SilverStripe site Downloads page fixes

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David,

thanks for reminding me of all the things I forgot to do :-) Keep 'em coming!

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 1:08 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> Last batch of download page fixes. See screenshot for illustration [1].
>
> 1) Align text of BitTorrent checkbox middle with checkbox. Make sure
> checkbox is aligned middle with dropdown list.

Somewhat tricky, but I tried my best to improve it.  Please test with
various browsers.

> 2) Capitalize the D of "Download using BitTorrent".

Done.

> 3) Eliminate all the messages that display below the dropdown lists:
> a) The explanations in the page cover the info. b) They have ugly
> formatting and visually complicate the page. c) They complicate the
> script code. d) They complicate localization work. e) My grandmother
> doesn't like them. f) I like to complain about things.

:-) I disabled them. But I put the blame on you if people just
download the languagepack and then wonder why it cannot be installed
:-P
(the wording above the selection is clear though :-)

But how to check for the case when the user selects a language, but no
languagepack is available?
Your screenshot shows a false-positive, the text can be easily hidden
for en-US..
Thus I just did comment it out, not remove it completely...

> 4) Replace "Full installer" with "installer" (notice the *lowercase*
> first letter).

OK, "Full" removed

> 5) Replace "Source to build yourself with "Download the source code to
> build your own installer".

OK, done.

> 6) Replace "SDK, to develop extensions, external tools" with "Download
> the SDK for developing extensions and external tools".

OK, done.

> 7) "LibreOffice, the productivity suite" serves no purpose (links to
> home page). Either eliminate it or else replace text with "Read the
> installation instructions" and link to the Installation page under Get
> Help.

Well - see the other posting - it does seve the same purpose as the
other ones. Did you actually click on it?

Did not hide it, left it inside. But changed the links to local
anchor, as suggested in another mail.

> 8) Please explain me the difference between the two windows installers.

multi: Only some languages,
all: All available languages.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: CMS Workflow: LibreOffice - Page: International - Status: Completed

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Rimas, *,

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Rimas Kudelis  wrote:
> 2010.12.10 01:23, Christian Lohmaier rašė:
>>>
>>> Otherwise we have pages with scrollbar and pages without scrollbar,
>>> which makes the pages shifting left/right when navigating through
>>> the site. (At least when using Firefox)
>> [...]
>> So again if we really want this, then html {height:100%;
>> margin-bottom:1px;} is /way/ better than having a huge diff around.
>
> html { overflow: scroll; }
>
> wouldn't that be even better?

That would also add a horizontal scrollbar as well, so overflow-y:
scroll is the only option, but that is css3 only.

(but yes, more elegant solution than the dummy-margin and even if it
is not supported by some browsers: not taking it into account won't
hurt)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] test.libreoffice.org

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Narayan Aras  wrote:
>
> I am not sure if your invitation for ideas was for logo/branding or for the 
> page.

It was for the visual appearance of the page, i.e. suggested
improvements for the css used on the page.

> But assuming that it is about everything, then the tag line is terrible.
> Both logo and the tag line are supposed to be about the same thing.

Do you have a suggestion for a better wording?

> So the next question: Is this logo for LibO (the product), or TDF (the 
> organization behind it)?

Is is the LIbreOffice official logo, it's somewhat of a hybrid

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Logos

> Since the logo is placed with download links, I assume it is for the product.
> Then why does the tagline say "The Document Foundation"? It is supposed to 
> say something more about the product.
> (e.g. It can say "The Liberated Office" or something similar.)

"The Document Foundation" is part of the official logo, symbolizing
that LO is goverened by the TDF.

LO and TDF are both very closely related, so you cannot really
seperate the two...

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] test.libreoffice.org

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Charles, *,

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 5:57 PM, Charles Marcus
 wrote:
> First thing that jumps out is it is way too wide. I get a horizontal
> scroll bar long before I should...

Do you mean the wiki or test.libreoffice.org?

For test.libreoffice.org, the smallest (reported/recorded) screensize
is 1024x600 (although that data is not very representative yet of
course)

So what screen-size do you have, and on please be more specific about
"long before I should"
The scrollbar shouldn't be displayed when not necessary, but as the
content area with real content is around 800pixels wide, and the
header area is a little wider even, you get the scrollbar when running
on 800x600 for example.
But you should never ever have to scroll back and forth to read the
actual content area of the page, unless you run on less than 800pixel
wide screen - but I doubt anyone uses such a small monitor.
(you might have to scroll to access the subpage-navigation at the left
hand side or the leftmost tab though).

In the end it is always a tradeoff - how small screen can you support
without sucking on big screens. There have been more complaints about
the page not extending to the full width of the screen. Yours is the
first about the page being too wide/forces horizontal scrolling.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Danishka, *,

On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Danishka Navin  wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Christian Lohmaier <
> lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com >wrote:
>> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Danishka Navin 
>> wrote:
>> [sorting of the languagedropdown on download-page]
> please do not take the locale name but localcode (lang-Country)
> that is the part not localized
>
> for example;
>
> si-LK  is the langcode for Sinhala
> if we set the dropdown by order of langcode every one can see there language
> as the langcode order and every lancode is redable.

But the question is: Will people know what the iso-code for their language is?

> as we all know the web site is going to be localized.
> So, in the English content page default package should be English.

The default is whatever the browser's language is, the default is not
tied to the locale of the page.
The browser's UI usually reflect the UI preference of the user,...

> Hope you got my point :)

I hope you get mine as well (for the user there should be no need to
switch to another language hopefully - if detection fails, then please
tell me so). The user definitely knows the name of the language, but
might not know the iso-code.

And for people who want to download more than one language, I suggest
to expand the list below the selection (which then is sorted by
iso-code)

In the end, it is only a small change, I hoped that other people would
post their opinion on this..

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] test.libreoffice.org

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 4:09 PM, David Nelson  wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 22:08, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol
>  wrote:
>
> The CSS of the left side menu still needs a little more love.

It's possible to flush them with the left border of the content-area.
I.e. shifting it 20 pixels to the left, that in turn would gain 20
pixel for the content.

Then the next question would be on whether to have the highlighting
button fixed-width, or dynamic-size (i.e. short subpage gets short
hightlight, long button gets longer highlight), etc.

> I will
> post another TODO about that.

Thanks for that, looking forward to it.

on pumbaa, I demoed dynamic-width navigation buttons, see e.g.
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/develop/ (long international button, and
short FAQ one)
(highlight of tabs is just the green inverted - just ignore it)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #1 Fix SilverStripe site footer

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *;

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:48 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
> One last fix for the footer:
>
> Change "Imprint" to "Legal Info"

Scheduled for next update.

> I duplicated the Imprint page to create "/legal-info" in anticipation
> of this... HTH.

Duplicated = "created virtual page/redirector page" hopefully :-)

> Question: Can the NL sites create a page that gets linked to from the
> "Legal Info" link in the footer?

In any case: They must be translations of the pages on the mainsite.
That way I could query "$page->hasTranslation("language") and rewrite
the link accordingly.

If NL sites want to display the page as it would reside in their
project (and not leave let's say fr.libreoffice.org and be directed to
www.libreoffice.org), then they can add a subsite virtual page linking
to the translation.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 1:41 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> Heads-up: in the lang packs langs list, lang "my" needs an encoding
> fix - the lang name shows up as little boxes...

You got a font installed that displays Burmese characters?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burmese_script

And I wonder that this is the only one you get little boxes :-) You
got quite good unicode coverage with your fonts then :-)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #3 SilverStripe site Downloads page fixes

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 1:34 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 23:29, Christian Lohmaier
>  wrote:
>
> COULD YOU PLEASE CHANGE THE LABEL to: "Other ways to download
> LibreOffice, the productivity suite" ?

/now/ I'm really awake :-P
Sure - scheduled for next update - not sure about plural though.

> After that the page is perfect and finished. ;-)

Hooray :-)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #1 Fix SilverStripe site footer

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 12:51 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> I have made the "Legal Info" page a redirector page, and I have also
> forwarded your message to Sophie so that she can inform the NL site
> teams accordingly.

Thanks

PS: I added the footer and download-page changes.

> Could you maybe check that I've done the right things for the "Legal
> Info" page? TIA if so. ;-)

Yes - The changes are OK, I just wanted to make sure you did not
actually copy the page :-)

Whether you use a virtual page or a redirector page then is not a
question of right or wrong, but what you want to get.

ciao
Christian

real PS (for the left-nav discussion, best held in a seperate thread):
I played with the left-hand menu on pumbaa a bite, now slightly
larger, long strings are clipped at 12 characters, see for example
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/home/download-and-sub/
the subsubpage "sub in downloadtest" is truncated to "sub in downlo…"

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #3 SilverStripe site Downloads page fixes

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David,

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:18 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
> Let me just make sure Christian sees this:
>> [...]
>> "Other way to download LibreOffice, the productivity suite"

Yes, I noticed - should be online now :-)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibO-Website design

[Christian Lohmaier]

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 9:45 PM, David Nelson  wrote:
> Hi guys, :-)
>
> While you're reviewing the site design, please make adjustments to the
> text sizes, notably of the titles, and maybe consider increasing the
> line spacing. Space after and before the headings needs tweaking to
> get an optimal layout.
>
> On the main SilverStripe site, take a look at the FAQs, and take a
> look at the installation instructions. These pages will give you the
> best sample content to look at.
>
> Could you guys please take action on those things for us? The site can
> be live and online *before* Christmas, and the community needs that
> urgently. ;-) A *big* thank you if you heed my plea.
>
> [1] http://www.test.libreoffice.org/get-help/installation/

Might be a bad example, as there are lots of empty paragraphs in there.

a paragraph just for the anchor tag, and yet another one completely
empty. For example:
De-Installation
of a Previous Version of LibreOffice for Windows


 
Lorem ipsum dolor [...]

Note that the heading itself has the anchor, and the  just below
contains the same anchor, then yet again a completely empty paragraph,
then follows the text.

That is the reason for the huge gaps between header and paragraph in this case.

Also note that for anchors, you don't need to use  tags, and
especially you don't need to surround text with them (and use
text-decoration:none to disable treating it as a link).
using
headertext does the trick as well, as would do:
headertext

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #5 Home page widgets

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 12:01 PM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> Here is a screenshot [1] with requests for the Latest Blog Posts
> widget and the Twitter widget.

putting it here for reference in future posts :-)
> [1] 
> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/0/0f/Libo-screenshot-11.png

Thanks again for the visual help, this really makes it easier to grasp
things quickly.

> Basically, I'm wondering if you can:
>
> 1) Style the Latest Blog Posts widget like the Twitter widget

Sure - although I'm not sure about the colors of the Twitter widget itself.
you can play with the colors at the twitter page itself
http://twitter.com/about/resources/widgets/widget_profile or use a
site like jsfiddle.net (paste the twitter generated code into the
HTML-section (top-left) and click run → result will be at the lower
right, change code in the HTML part, click run again → repeat until
you're happy, then save (or remember the colors yourself :-))
use http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Colors as guidelines

What is fixed/not scrolled is the header part and the bottom part - do
you want that for the blog-widget area as well? I.e. non-scrolling
header, and non-scrolling bottom-part?

> 2) Change the title of the blog posts widget to "Latest Blog Posts"

Sure, that's no problem whatsoever :-) But the question is: What
blog/feed to poll?

For pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780 I used http://blog.documentfoundation.org/
- but maybe a aggregated feed would make more sense?

Similar for the twitter widget - it's currently a so-called "profile"
widget, i.e. doesn't perform a search for terms, but only lists tweets
from docufoundation.

> 3) Make those two widgets available on test.libreoffice.org (I
> inserted the code from the Welcome page of
> http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/ into the home page of
> test.libreoffice.org but the widgets don't seem to work on
> test.libreoffice.org, whereas they work fine on
> http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/...

Yes, that is because the automatically generated data is provided by
the controller of the corresponding page - and that doesn't exist yet
on test.libreoffice.org (also the templates to render the data doesn't
exist yet. Silverstripe follows a MVC (Model View Controller) concept
:-)

The code needs minor cleanup before publishing :-))

> Could you make any necessary changes and get them working?

Sure.

> Thanks if so. I ill have finished with all the pages before Friday
> morning (CET time), so we could ask Florian to roll the site out on
> Friday maybe...

Great news! - Thank you very much for your efforts!

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #5 Home page widgets

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Christian Lohmaier
 wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 12:01 PM, David Nelson  
> wrote:
>>
>> 1) Style the Latest Blog Posts widget like the Twitter widget

Is http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/ what you had in mind?

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] What's the official policy about the LibO website: Drupal or no Drupal?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Michael Wheatland
 wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:40 PM, Sophie Gautier
>  wrote:
> [...]
> We will never force anyone to do anything. In my mind, once the Drupal
> development is complete and implemented then people will want to move
> tools.

Then they can make their decision on a basis where Drupal is
functional. Whether they then like it or not cannot be anticipated
yet.

> As I understand it, this is why the SC asked the website team to develop 
> Drupal.

No SC never asked the website team to devlop Drupal. There were many
Drupal fans/supporters that strongly voiced their opinion to choose
drupal as CMS.
But they just couldn't manage to setup a demo that met the basic requirements.

That is why SC did choose Silverstripe, with the option to reconsider
moving to Drupal early spring next year. By then, the drupal site
should shine, the drupal supporters will be happy with it and they are
sure it will convince people to switch.

But in the end it depends on the user-interface of the drupal site
whether the people who work with it will ask for the switch or "beg"
the SC to stick with silverstripe.
I didn't look at the current state of affairs wrt drupal, and probably
will not have time for evaluation this year anyway, so I cannot give
feedback yet.

> [...]
> It should be made clear to those contributing where the project is
> going, this ensures that the work and project are aligned. Second
> guessing SC decisions is not good for community morale and discourages
> contribution.

Sophie is part of the SC, so it can hardly be "second guessing" the
decisions. And she also explained herself pretty clearly: She (as part
of the SC) will not tell people to use  if the people won't
like it.
So I don't understand the fuzz about it.

Again I state: What I saw of drupal in October did put me off, I'd
never want to use drupal in a state like this. That's where SC
decision comes in: It gives drupal folks a very, very fair chance to
present themselves, gives them enough time to work without
pressure/need to hurry on a cool site that will convince users not
becuase it is "drupal", the great tool that can do everything when you
configure it properly, but because it actually *does* that stuff.

> IMHO, The Drupal website development has been a great example of the
> community creating the tool they want.

"they" in this case is mainly drupal-supporters, not the whole
community, and especially not the people who will maintain the
content. Those people will only get a chance to make their decision
when the drupal-team announces their page as "we think everything is
ready, go check it out and provide feedback"

And yes, you got input from various groups that in part already use
drupal for their work and stuff, but still this is hardly "the
community".

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] What's the official policy about the LibO website: Drupal or no Drupal?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Michael, *,

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:17 PM, Michael Wheatland
 wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:32 AM, Christian Lohmaier
>  wrote:
>
>> And yes, you got input from various groups that in part already use
>> drupal for their work and stuff, but still this is hardly "the
>> community".
>
> If you can suggest more ways to get feedback than the mailing lists
> and the wiki I am all ears.

Sorry if I sounded too negative, I just wanted to support Sophie's POV
since I had the impression "you" did not listen to what she actually
wrote, but only what you "wanted to hear", thus leaving the objective
level and on the rim to getting personal.

The feedback will come in January, after the first release is out of
the door and people have time to evaluate the drupal site, give it a
try.
The Editors/Maintainers/NL-Project members don't have fancy
requirements, but they need a tool that they are comfortable with.

So it is not about the features you need to add to drupal, but about
the editor, the page-creation, linking, etc., the very basic stuff
that needs to be appealing.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] What's the official policy about the LibO website: Drupal or no Drupal?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:01 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> There is also the question of who would administer a Drupal site. I'm
> not currently aware of any candidates with the right profile, unless
> Christian was willing to do it.

I don't think the administration part would cause problems here, it's
true that drupal so far isn't my favourite, since I failed to see a
convincing UI back then when I evaluated different CMS, but this might
of course change, and when switching to drupal, I won't block the
efforts but try to assist the other admins during the move.

> [...]
> The code base behind the website is managed via a TDF-managed git
> repository. You can't just tweak and edit files on the server.

This is true, although the git repo was setup to allow contributions
to the "not-managed in the user visible part of the CMS" by other
volunteers as well.

on pumbaa, the playground area, I do modify files on the installation
directly, but there I don't risk breaking the site for the end-users,
but just for myself :-)
When the changes are good (good enough :-), I'll push them to the
corresponding git repo and pull the changes to the live site.

> The admin has to be someone known and trusted by TDF and Ooodevs De,
> because he/she will have access to important project resources.

This is true - since administration requires shell access to the
production servers, and that is restricted of course. But again I
don't see this as a problem, the admin-team will help out no matter
what.

Last but not least the switch will not be made over night anyway :-)
(and the good thing is we have pumbaa, a dedicated "for
testing/evaluation" server, where one can setup a VM and provide
access with less strict requirments
(silverstripe on pumbaa also runs in a VM)

> [...]
> In addition, before being adopted as LibO's new CMS, a
> fully-operational, full-featured demo has to be offered for *thorough
> prior evaluation*.

Yes, definitely.

> It's not enough to be evangelizing Drupal and
> saying it *can* do this and it *can* do that. It has to be proven and
> concretely demonstrated that it's a superior choice and that TDF/LibO
> really *needs* it. True meritocracy is supposed to be the driving
> force behind this project.

Yes, exactly my POV as well :-)

> [...]

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #5 Home page widgets

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:52 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> I reworked the Welcome page at http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/
>
> I tried getting the widgets to work on test.libreoffice.org but did
> not succeed... could you possibly replace the contents of the home
> page on test.libreoffice.org with the contents of the Welcome page on
> http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/ ?

I added the necessary changes to the live site, changed the page type
of the Homepage to "WidgetPage" and added a Twitter and RSS
configuration.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Website design [was: Less Personal :-) .... Statement]

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Dr. Bernhard Dippold
 wrote:
>> Am Donnerstag, den 16.12.2010, 01:39 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
>> [...]

I do a quick leap over the menu/site design part - Just be assured
that the menu can of course be restructured to whatever
design/functionality is chosen in the end, Don't think in terms of
"oh, how difficult would that be to implement in silverstripe" - tell
me what you want (what the generated html should look like), and I'll
do my best to provide it :-)

> Do we want to have a login area on the website too?

What for?

If a page requires a login, you're offered the login and are
redirected back. But currently we don't make use of restricted areas.
Login currently is only needed for editing the site.

> [...]
> So +1 for your approach - at least in the mid-term.
>
> I don't know if such a change is possible before the page goes online.

As the site is meant to be ready this week-end already: No, probably not :-)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Comments on website content

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Alexander, *;

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 2:20 PM, Alexander Thurgood
 wrote:
> [...]
> When I referred to wanting to leave comments, Silverstripe has a
> built-in comment facility that enables you to leave comments separately,

Each page has a "ToDo" tab, where you can add such items.

The comments are more related to one single edit/version of the page,
i.e. when someone requests a page to be published, a reviewer can add
a comment saying "please change this or that", refering to that
request.

Adding comments/reviews like yours in the workflow comment will easily
be missed once that workflow item is processed (changed page published
or publication request cancelled/aborted.

> but which are linked to a given page (if I've understood it correctly),
> and that is what I wanted to.

Yes - you can then also use the little reports to list pages that have
TODO items

But you might also talk about the comment feature as in a
user-feedback form on the website itself, yes, silverstripe provides
that as well, but has to be enabled for the corresponding pages.

And of course granting access to edit pages is no problem

ciao
Christian

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[libreoffice-website] Piwik statistics → Privacy Policy needs an update

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,
send to both website (responsible for changing it :-) as well as
marketing (people who are good with words :-)

piwik (web analytics tool - details here http://piwik.org/) will be
used for the website(s) the TDF runs to get some usage statistics.
Thus the privacy policy needs some love regarding this topic.

While no personal data is collected (well - who has an exact
definition of personal data? Is the users's screen size, the used
browser, the time and duration of the visit personal data?..) piwik
does track individuals by a cookie (to be able to provide a
"unique/distinct visitors" number), so I'd be glad if someone can come
up with some nice wording

http://mindtreeinsight.sourceforge.net/privacy.html basically lists
the items piwik collects, so something like that is needed for our
privacy policy as well.

current policy: http://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy/

ciao
Christian

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Re: Less Personal :-) (was: Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Personal Statement)

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

while I agree with David, that the discussion is started too late to
change it before going live, don't hold back with the discussion, once
there is a new concept, it can be implemented, but time for
experimenting with the designs on the real site (and also the staging
site is too short for major overhaul). But again: don't hold back!

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 10:54 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> Given the work that Christian has done on the download widget, how do
> you envision integrating downloading into the home page?

Yes, I in fact never liked the "one button for all" approach, as for
me personally it almost never did the right thing.

That being said, it would of course be possible to use the same OS and
platform detection that the download page. And unless the site has to
go static (i.e. the site will assemble the page individually for each
visitor, at least in parts), one can use server-side functions to get
the appropriate URL

I strongly prefer a link to the download page though, not an attempt
for a completely autodetected downloadbutton that immediately starts
the download.

ciao
Christian

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Re: Less Personal :-) (was: Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Personal Statement)

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Ivan, *,

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Ivan M.  wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Christoph Noack
>  wrote:
>> [...]
> Are you thinking of something like the slideshow on the current
> "LibreOffice"/Download page [2]? With some jQuery, a nice fade in/fade
> out effect could be added to make it more appealing (e.g. [3]).


Something like that: sure (and the docmentfoundation page already has
fade-in/fade-out)

I played with colorbox on pumbaa to provide
slideshow/expand-that-thumbnail functionality:
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/colorbox/

The anniversary logo is a single one, the ones are the botton belong
to the same group/can be viewed as slideshow (you can also use your
keyboard arrows to go to previous/next image)

The photoshuffler that is used on the cited documentfoundation page is
added in the same way to
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/libreoffice/

I post this links to show you that it is doable with silverstripe,

> Or
> perhaps an embedded YouTube video showing 3.3's new features in action
> (assuming such a video is made, of course :P)

Well - chicken and egg problem. Embedding youtube videos is no
problem, can be done, but you need one of course :-)

I would like some eyecatchers and other images/logos to freshen up the
site myself, but I'm no graphics artist :-/

>> I tried to design my proposal for medium sized screens.

Yes, please that in mind. The site should still work OK on 800pixel
wide monitors.

> A few ideas, yes, but I don't know if they're any good :)

Well, if not good, then they'll surely attract someone to criticize
them and hopefully provide constructive feedback :-))

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #5 Home page widgets

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 9:12 AM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> Request #1 of #2
>
> In one of the other threads, Klaus requested that we should have a
> screenshot and download button at the very top of the content.
> For the screenshot shuffler, I suggest we use the same script as used
> at http://www.documentfoundation.org/download/
> (http://www.documentfoundation.org/scripts/photoshuffler.js).


This is already possible - although maybe not in the most intuitive way :-)

Turn the page into a JSPage, then you can specify a javascript
uploaded to assets (Files and Images Section) that is then included.
You need to write the images you want the photoshuffler to display
see the example on pumbaa as reference:
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/libreoffice/ includes
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/assets/JavaScript/photoshuffler.js
Besides adding the script, you need to provide hints in the document
as to where the script should do its work, thus creat a div with
id="screenshot-slide" and within that div an img-tag with
id="screenshot-slide-image" (or modify the photoshuffler.js to use
other tags)

I guess I should make that more user-friendly by adding a tab "images
to shuffle" or similar to the CMS where you would pick the images
instead of having to modify the javascript directly, but that just was
the way I did back then when I just wanted to copy the
documentfoundation site as a demo back then...

> Please, could you make the script work on the test.libreoffice.org home page?
> I already uploaded the 8 screenshots into
> http://test.libreoffice.org/admin/assets/HomePageRollingScreenshots
> (you will see them in the "Files & Images" tab).

If the above way is acceptable, I can do it - sure.

> Request #2 of #2
>
> Christian, if you have time, would it be possible to implement the 3rd
> widget ("TDF Planet News") discussed above? This one would be
> *underneath* the TDF blog feed and Twitter feed, stretching across the
> entire content width...

I did so on pumbaa, but I must say I think it is too "heavy", but I
can add the functionality, even if you can use it, you don't have to
after all :-)
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: LibO-3.3-rc1 download icons still mentions "beta"

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Bernhard, Ivo, *,

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Bernhard Dippold
 wrote:
> CC'ing the website list because this might be interesting for images on our
> LibO website too.

It definitely is :-)

> Ivan M. schrieb:
>> On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Bernhard Dippold
>>   wrote:
>>
>> Here is the demo:
>> http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/buttons/index.html

Nice :-)

>> You can see the HTML/CSS source to see how it works (but getting the
>> image right in Inkscape was a huge pain). Of course, I can explain if
>> anyone's interested.

Yes, it would be interested to have a kind of howto for this, but only
if you don't have other stuff to do right now.

I would have used gimp probably, but I don't know it very well either.

> Even if I'm not an expert in HTML/CSS I understand the advantages of this
> approach:
>
> - just one image
> http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/buttons/images/button.png
> (plus the document symbol image where it is necessary)

Yes, definitely easier to maintain/update.

> - images don't have to be replaced on hover, it's just a different
> text/background decoration by quite a simple CSS:
> http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/buttons/style.css

Yes, although when using spriting, a different image on hover wouldn't
be much of a problem.
The real improvement is to not having the text encoded within the image.
For special buttons this can be done of course, but then the source
should be available (xcf, whatever layered format), so that when the
text needs to be changed you can just update the text-layer and
resave)

> I could imagine, that this might work for the navigation tabs on the LibO
> website too, especially if a second horizontal navigation line (visible on
> mouse over the first level nav) would be considered.

Regarding this: I turned the tabs on pumbaa from using fixed-width
buttons to sprited approach with dynamic width:
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/
http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/themes/tdf/images/nav_sprites.png
(in this case a button background consits of two elements: main
background and the corner part)

> How do you avoid the text leaving the button because of line break or
> different standard fonts (other height or width than the font you used)?

The same technique could be applied to the button, i.e. have the
buttons resize horizontally to fit the text. Scaling vertically is a
little harder, you need to split it to top/bottom and have a middle
area (possible with the buttons).

> Does this needs a fixed not-to-be-replaced font in the page definition?

No - it is a matter of efforts though. It took me quite a while until
I got the css right for the hover buttons, esp for the ones on the
sidenavbar, where I wanted the text to run into the cornerpart, and
not have the corner part as void space. But it is doable.

> Here at my system (SeaMonkey 2.0.11 on Ubuntu 10.10) the lower button's text
> is too broad for the button - this should be avoided:
> http://imagebin.org/128305

Easiest intermediate solution is to prevent line-wrap (using css) and
just cut off the text horizontally (but add corresponding alt/title
attribute so that one can read the full text on mouse-over)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Text wrapping around objects

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Alexander, *,

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Alexander Thurgood
 wrote:
>
> This is just a general comment with regard to whole website, but is
> there any way to improve text wrapping around the embedded objects
> (images, etc).

Please always provide concrete examples, possible along with
screenshots (upload to http://frupic.frubar.net /
http://sau.frubar.net or some other image upload site of your choice)

> Is this more of a CSS issue ?

Yes, but of course what css styles are applied is a matter of what is
defined in the page's content, thus

> or is it something that has to be done for
> each page that has embedded objects on it ?

It doesn't have to be adapted for each page that has content, but for
each page where something is not displayed correctly.
But in order to fix stuff, you need to know where to go to fix it.

So when you spot something problematic, please provide the URL

The main page should be OK now. http://test.libreoffice.org/
(±replacing some of the used images with others, but there should be
no wrapping issue now, at least none that I'm aware of)

ciao
Christian

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Re: Less Personal :-) (was: Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Personal Statement)

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Christian Lohmaier
 wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Ivan M.  wrote:
>> On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Christoph Noack
>>  wrote:
>>> [...]
>> Are you thinking of something like the slideshow on the current
>> "LibreOffice"/Download page [2]? With some jQuery, a nice fade in/fade
>> out effect could be added to make it more appealing (e.g. [3]).

To add on that one: We're of course not limited to using
photoshuffler.js as it is used now (
http://iamacamera.org/sandbox/photoshuffler/ ), we can use other
methods as well of course. The site includes jquery anyway, so modules
building on top of jquery are preferred, but it's no limitation.

There's basically two fundamentally different way these slideshow modules work:
* popup (like for example http://colorpowered.com/colorbox/ )
or
* inline.
And then
* load images in the scriptcode (like for example
http://tobia.github.com/CrossSlide/ )
or
* load the images in the html code itself. (like for example
http://jquery.malsup.com/cycle/ )

the first variant is basically the only way to go when there are lots
of images, the other one is OK for fewer or smaller ones (as the
browser will keep downloading images, and only after that the
javascript that is added to the very bottom of the page to not delay
rendering of the page)

Drawback of the script method is that you'd have to use a seperate
control in the CMS to add the images, while with the html way you
could add them in the HTML-code)

ciao
Christian

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[libreoffice-website] Fwd: planned downtime of kermit and pumbaa

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

just in case...

-- Forwarded message --
From: Florian Effenberger 
Date: Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 2:06 PM
Subject: planned downtime of kermit and pumbaa
To: tdf-ad...@lists.documentfoundation.org


Hi,

in order to make MTR measurements for our ISP, so they finally can
resolve the latency issue on kermit, pumbaa.ooodev.org and
kermit.documentfoundation.org will soon have a planned downtime,
because the measurements have to be taken in the rescue system.

As pumbaa is a test host, and kermit is "only" serving several
websites, I'll take the freedom of doing it whenever I find time for -
hope that's acceptable.

Will take about 30-60 minutes, I guess.

Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Text wrapping around objects

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Alexander, *,

On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Alexander Thurgood
 wrote:
> Le 17/12/10 15:53, Christian Lohmaier a écrit :
>
>> Please always provide concrete examples, possible along with
>> screenshots (upload to http://frupic.frubar.net /
>> http://sau.frubar.net or some other image upload site of your choice)
>
> OK, examples for starters :
>

Ah, all nl-pages, I didn't think of those in the current discussion.

> It may also be an issue of spacing from the images that causes the
> wrapping to look odd. This is viewed on a 15" Macbook Pro with Firefox
> 3.6.13.

If you attached screenshots, they were cut off.

> http://fr.test.libreoffice.org/libreoffice/

I don't know what you regard as "odd", so please provide a sample.
espl with the first one, I canot see something wrong, apart that one
single line extends below the image (as the height of the text is
higher than the height of the image), but that's no problem IMHO.

> http://de.test.libreoffice.org/product/

similar for this one, doesn't see anything obviously wrong

> http://de.test.libreoffice.org/product/writer/

There the image is very close to the paragraph-line above, so yes,
looks a bit off. Image should be moved down to align with the second
paragraph/section.

> http://de.test.libreoffice.org/product/impress/

Again depends on your definition of "odd" - the text besides the image
includes also the next heading. A matter of taste I'd say. Adding a
 http://de.test.libreoffice.org/product/libreoffice-draw/

Similar here - heading next to the image. But nothing "wrong" in my
eyes, just a matter of taste. The paragraph above is so short, so that
forcing the next heading below the image would add quite a bit of
quitespace...

So again: Please provide (annotated) screenshots to visualize what you
mean exactly.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] LibO-Website design

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi David, *,

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 9:45 PM, David Nelson  wrote:
>
> On the main SilverStripe site, take a look at the FAQs

I changed the heading level on the FAQ summary page from h2 to h3, and
added spacing above/below the individual entries - should look better
now

If you really want bullet-points, poke me again :-)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Silverstripe - broken links

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Cor, *,

On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 12:06 AM, Cor Nouws  wrote:
>
> In our Dutch section, there are some broken link marks (red accent) in the
> page overview pane.
> That is for some time already. But honestly I´ve no idea what it could be.
>
> Any hits?
> It's on Home,

could be the  link, but more likely the irc://
links that silverstripe doesn't know what to do with (probably it
searches for a page nl.libreoffice.org/irc

> 3.6 Nieuwe functies ..., 3.5 Functies, 3.4 Functies ...

Did only look at the first - it contains "dead" html (i.e. stuff that
is contained, but not displayed):

(Previous
release pages: http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-5-new-features-en-fixes/";>3.5
/ http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-4-new-features-en-fixes/";>3.4
/ http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-3-new-features-en-fixes/";>3.3)

i.e. it contains a 1px wide&height display with a set of non-existing
links, so the icon there is correct.

I guess the other feature pages suffer similar problems.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: ISO download stats?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Luuk, *,

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Luuk  wrote:
> On 05-11-2012 10:05, Marc Paré wrote:
>>
> You will 'miss' the downloads via bittorrent..

all download numbers are approximative, as distribution is not
limited But as torrents (the info-files) are also downloaded via
the mirror-system, you can guesstimate the BT-Dowloads by the
downloads of the torrent file.

But downloads via BitTorrent are only a tiny fraction of overall
downloads anyway, so any skew in that number will not make a big
difference.

ciao
Chrsitian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Mac OS installation guide

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 3:37 PM, Alexander Thurgood
 wrote:
> Le 13/11/12 12:35, Daniel A. Rodriguez a écrit :
> [...]
> The instructions for Mac still appear to be relevant, the only thing
> that might need changing are the screenshots to make them reflect the
> current icon set for the app.

Indeed. Main-installation on Mac is: Double-click the dmg you
downloaded, then drag the icon to the applications folder (for
convenience, there is a link within the dmg) or to any other folder of
your choice.

Languagepack installation is: Double-click the dmg you downloaded,
double-click the installer that is included in the dmg, then follow
instructions (basically always click "next")

HOWEVER:
The latest version of Mac OSX has some "security measures" active that
make it complain when trying to install an unsingned package.

So please include the info/add a pointer to
http://www.italovignoli.org/2012/08/libreoffice-and-mountain-lion-macos-x-10-8/
that describes how to install nevertheless.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Mac OS installation guide

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Alex, *,

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Alex Thurgood  wrote:
> Le 15/11/2012 21:16, Christian Lohmaier a écrit :
>
> Hi Christian,
>
>> So please include the info/add a pointer to
>> http://www.italovignoli.org/2012/08/libreoffice-and-mountain-lion-macos-x-10-8/
>> that describes how to install nevertheless.
>>
>
> It is already there.

Indeed, but a little formatting would help to actually notice it :-))

Will add that...

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Mac OS installation guide

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Marc, *,

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> [...]
> For Win/Mac I added:
>
> "A reminder that, in addition to the "Main Installer", you will have to
> download the "LibreOffice built-in help" package which is separate from the
> "Main Installer".

For Mac is it completely wrong, and for Win partially wrong.

Mac:
* There is no help package at all. Offline-Help is included in the languagepack.

Win:
* even when there is a separate help package (like for windows and
linux), this is completely optional. The user doesn't *have* to
install it.

The user only needs to install it when he wants translated help on his
own computer as opposed to being directed to the wiki-help on the
internet.

> You can use LibreOffice without this package, however, it
> will then go to the "Help" page on our website instead.

Yes, exactly. Thus I find "you will have to" misleading.

> A separate "Help"
> package makes it possible to keep the "Main Installer" significantly smaller
> for downloading purposes."

That's only true for windows basically, as there are no languagepacks
and you cannot pack all help into the installer.

Of course download is smaller also for the other ones, but not
"significantly" (but of course depends on how you look at it)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Mac OS installation guide

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Marc, *,

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> [...]
> Then to summarize your suggestions for Win/Linux just go with the Linux
> version (removed the word "significantly"):
>
> "At this point, you may also want to to install the "LibreOffice built-in
> help" package which is separate from the installation package. You can use
> LibreOffice without this package, however, it will then go to the "Help"
> page on our website instead. A separate "Help" package makes it possible to
> keep the installation package smaller for downloading purposes."
>
> For Mac remove the statement altogether? Is there a reason why the Mac does
> not have a localized help package?

Because it is pointless to have two packages for local UI and help.
If it was me, I'd also not have that separate on linux.

It might make sense again to separate it when help is available in the
Desktop's native help format and when extended Tooltips are no longer
taken from Help, but until then it is just a bother. (my biased
opinion :-)

ciao
Christian

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[libreoffice-website] seasonal logo time :-)

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

holiday season is approaching, and I wonder whether we should put up a
seasonal logo again this year..

Last year we had
http://www.libreoffice.org/themes/libo/images/logo-seasonal-xmas.png
in our top-banner.

Comments/other proposals, anyone?

Maybe one that covers southern hemisphere as well ;-) (no idea how
that should look like though, but if you have ideas)

ciao
Christian

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[libreoffice-website] Re: [Bug 57232] Escaped HTML on www.libreoffice.org front page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Florian, *,

On Thursday, December 6, 2012, Florian Effenberger wrote:

> bugzilla-dae...@freedesktop.org wrote on 2012-12-06 08:43:
>
>  this little bug about the front/home page of www.libreoffice.org/ is
>> embarrassing, because it makes the whole page look unprofessional.
>> And that is bad ...
>>
>> Do you know who is responsible for the website, especially for the script
>> which
>> generates the contents of the “News at TDF Blog” section, and therefore
>> should
>> be told about this bug? I did not succeed in finding any information
>> about that
>> on the website (which is, BTW, probably yet another bug ;-).
>>
>
Well - for all problems on the technical side of the infrastructure, the
website@global.libreoffice.org is a good candidate. Or the hostmaster
address.

I'm copying Marc Paré and Christian Lohmaier on this, I think one of them
> was involved in setting up the feed. I'll also copy our website mailing
> list, where our website team is subscribed to, I am sure you'll find help
> there. :-)
>

It is not that easy to fix, as the description entries are not uniform
across the various feeds, and planet aggregator does no normalizing... So
either you get double-escaping, or you fail to include the HTML.
The planet itself already has the problem, basically it is broken feeds
that get syndicated.

It is almost impossible to get this right - since when would you know
whether it is OK to interpret "escaped" html as actual HTML?
And it is also hard to reproduce, as the broken feeds are only online for a
couple of days before they get replaced by newer entries...

But I'll have a look and check what can be done...

The code that does the parsing is on github btw
https://github.com/tdf/cms-code mysite/code → the RSS-Widget one.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Download problem

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Nagy, *,

On Thursday, December 6, 2012, Nagy Ákos wrote:
>
>
> one of the Romanian LibreOffice users reported an interesting download bug.
> When he use opera browser (I tested with Windows XP 32 bit and 7 64 bit,
> latest opera browser), and try do download LibreOffice for windows, the
> download file name was:
> LibO_3.6.4_Win_x86_install_**multi.man
>

That happens when the webserver is misconfigured and sends the wrong
mime-type. As you wrote: renaming the file is enough in this case.

This happens only when I use
> http://mirror.arlug.ro/pub/**tdf/libreoffice/stable/3.6.4/**
> win/x86/LibO_3.6.4_Win_x86_**install_multi.msi(ro,
>  prio 100)
> as download server.
>

Thank you very much for letting us know the actual URL - with that info we
can contact the corresponding maintainer to have it fixed - thanks for the
feedback!

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] parameter locale in website

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Rob, Flo, *,

On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Florian Effenberger
 wrote:
> Rob Snelders wrote on 2012-12-16 23:23:
>
>> For expanding the "Send Feedback" option in LibreOffice we added some
>> parameters to the link it opens. One of the parameters is locale.
>> But there is a bug[1] posted that using a locale that's not US then
>> the website doesn't load anymore.

locale is a parameter used by silverstripe - so it is a bad idea to use.

It is uses to manually switch between translations of a site - and as
you noticed creates an error when a non-existing locale is used

see
http://donate.libreoffice.org/?locale=de_DE
http://donate.libreoffice.org/?locale=he_IL
http://donate.libreoffice.org/?locale=invalid
for example.

And non-existing doesn't mean non-existing translation, but when the
locale-identifier itself is unknown to silverstripe/the zend-framework
silverstripe uses.

>> I tried a link[2] and then the
>> website doesn't load anymore.

it is "invalid" locale as described above.
correct one would be nl_NL instead of just nl:

http://www.libreoffice.org/?locale=nl_NL

correct in the sense that it is a valid locale in silverstripe's/Zends
opinion. When there is no translated page, it will hand out the
subsite's default langauge.

>> But when I try with the US-locale[3]
>> then the page works. Can this be easily solved in the website? Or
>> would it be better if I use another parameter-name?

If you want to keep the locale parameter, you need to make sure you're
using the ones that silverstripe likes. i.e. the long versions.

> I lack the technical details on how the BSA is implemented.

This has nothing to do with the BSA itself. BSA ist just displayed
within an iframe. It is already silverstripe's zend-cache that fails
because of the invalid parameter.

> Probably
> Christian Lohmaier, our Silverstripe expert, knows things best here. What I
> can offer from the server side is to write a mod_rewrite rule. However, this
> is always the least preferred option, since it IMHO would then break some
> Silverstripe functionality.

mod rewrite to change a query parameter is madness :-)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Specific code of Download page

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Camille, *,

On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Camille Moulin
 wrote:
> Hi Erich,
>
> Apparently, the last version of
>
> https://github.com/tdf/cms-code/blob/master/mysite/code/DownloadSimplePage.php
>
> is not functional (for example, there is a duplicate DownloadAppStores
> function at lines 242 and 261, and maybe other things).

Oh, thanks for the pointer..

gits merging might be powerful, but it is also a black whole kind of thing

> Could you please point me to the version which is at the moment in
> production?

I did update the github repo with the currently used ones.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Silverstripe version?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Goran, Erich, *,

On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 1:23 AM, Erich Christian  wrote:
> Am 01.02.2013 00:08, schrieb Goran Rakic:
>> On Mon, January 28, 2013 21:34, Erich Christian wrote:
>>> Kind of a 'plan' was to skip a few minor updates and jump to 3.0 or
>>> 3.0.3 in the meantime.

Well - not necessarily skip updates - but as we are using github and
submodules, we're basically not using "releases" - but merge the
fixes.

But the main point as you all figured out is: We're currently running
2.4.x codeline.

>>> VM13 is setup as a testing environment also for this purpose, afaik no
>>> one actually did it yet. It's available at http://staging.libreoffice.org
>>> and offers a clone of our website.

Well I did try it out a while ago as well to see how much effort it would be
https://ss3.libreoffice.org/get-involved is for example served using
silverstripe 3 :-)

(no DNS-entry, so you have to add 78.46.154.110 ss3.libreoffice.org to
/etc/hosts or equivalent)

However there are tweaks needed to some pages, (for example the
widgets on the homepage trigger errors).  While these are easy to fix,
the biggest problem is the workflow module we're using that hasn't
been migrated yet. The other modules are not that big of a deal.

>> Few months ago I cloned repos from tdf@GitHub and tried to migrate
>> site/theme to SilverStripe 3.
>>
>> I remember some modules where not ready so I got bored and discarded my
>> code.

Oh, you should not have discarded it completely :-)

Migrating the current theme is rather easy - but of course I'd like to
see a new theme for a relaunch when switching to SS 3

>> But I am ready to try again, a step at a time. It may make sense to
>> do migration and theme update in one step if marketing/design have some
>> mockups ready.

Indeed that is the hard thing here - getting input from vairous
parties regarding what they actually expect from the new design.

>> We could do this on a staging site, after the 4.0 release...
>
> Very welcome indeed  :)  would be a proper timing.

Indeed, you're welcome :-)

> You pointed it out already - modules stay behind, at least forum seems
> to be fixed
> http://open.silverstripe.org/ticket/7316

but forum module is only used for convenience / to have people create
their accounts themselves - so forum module is not crucial.

> Some investigation needed here for the rest ...
>
> Afaik Christian Lohmaier also integrated some modules.
> Looking forward to his comments,

State is that a lot is working already /can be tweaked with little effort.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: ["4.0 New Features and Fixes" webpage updates]

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Marc, *,

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> [...]
> Reason: This version of SilverStripe has a problem with the HTML parameters
> in a table-cell. It could be that the next version will not have this
> problem.

The editor used by silverstripe is tinymce - so if you could offer a
step-by-step action that shows the problem, then one can try tinymce
standalone to see what version shows the probelm/whether it is fixed.

The general rule to follow is:
When you copy stuff from another website: copy the sourcecode and
paste the sourcecode into the raw html-editing view.
That way the fewest errors are introduced.

When you copy text from a rendered page, depending on the browser a
lot of different tags will be insertet that then have to be cleaned
up.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: ["4.0 New Features and Fixes" webpage updates]

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi *,

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 2:01 PM, klaus-jürgen weghorn ol
 wrote:
> Hi Marc,
> Am 02.02.2013 13:37, schrieb Marc Paré:
>> SilverStripe editor tip!
>>
>> For those of you playing with the text in a table/cell; if you find that
>> your text has been re-spaced with large gaps between the words, try the
>> following:
>>
>> * MAKE SURE YOU SAVE YOUR PAGE BEFORE DOING THIS (this allows you to go
>> back to your previous version, if this messes things up badly
>
>
> "... and don't use IE for this because the HTML editor in Silverstripe
> doesn't work in a good way in IE".

"pro"-tip:
As the raw html view doesn't offer any advanced features like
syntax-highlighting or similar, it is way more convenient to copy the
sourcecode in the editor of your choice, edit it there and copy it
back.

That way your browser should not interfere, and you have the comfort
of the texteditor you're familiar with.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: ["4.0 New Features and Fixes" webpage updates]

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Pawel, *;

On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 9:57 PM, Pawel Konefal  wrote:
>
> I've decided to use HTML code and... it is not good.
> I think it's also merit of our CMS. That's why our website can have issues
> on some browsers.

Don't know what you mean. Can you give an example?

> Just look at this:
> http://i.imgur.com/A4wdlLc.png
> There was many "weird overrides" to e.g. make line, (too) many BR tags.

Hmm. I don't see any br tags in that screenshot (not true, I spottet
one on line 241 - but that very likely was inserted intentionally by
the user, not by the editor component)

And yes, I see colspan="3" / an abuse of using tables for layout
instead of css, but you cannot blame the editor for this, it is the
user's choice to create the page like that.

> I know we are planning do something with our CMS (maybe ONLY update, hope
> not), but we should not forget about HTML/CSS standard and make clean code.

tinymce is one of the best editors when it comes to creating clean html code.

It is technically correct. (but that is a must anyway) - and when
using the editor's controls it creates clean code.
I consider the code in your screenshot "clean" - as you cannot blame
the editor for the user putting single-item lists into table cells
that span multiple columns.

OTOH you cannot expect users to supply their own css to layout their
lists manually.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Exiting out of SilverStripe opens up a new tab on FF/Linux

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Marc, *,

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 5:10 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:
>
> Not sure if this is happening to anyone else, but when I exit SilverStripe
> admin, it now hiccups and opens a new tab and updates both tabs with the
> same window (the one with the admin login/password).

Not reproducible here. Maybe a browser-extension that causes this.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Silverstripe version?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Goran,

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Goran Rakic  wrote:
> On Tue, February 5, 2013 18:07, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
>>
>> Well I did try it out a while ago as well to see how much effort it would
>> be https://ss3.libreoffice.org/get-involved is for example served using
>> silverstripe 3 :-)
>>
>> (no DNS-entry, so you have to add 78.46.154.110 ss3.libreoffice.org to
>> /etc/hosts or equivalent)
>>
>
> I did this, but I am getting HTTP error 500.

I mentioned that the homepage/landingpage doesn't work. So that is expected.

> Should we have a new branch on github for this task? Can you import the
> current code from ss3.libo or if you think we are better with starting
> from a scratch?

I didn't care about making clean changes on the staging site, but only
was interested in what it takes to get going, so using that as base
would be a bad idea. And I'm not sure whether a new branch or a new
base-repo would be easier/less confusing.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] [BUG 54206] Redirect for our readme.html link

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Marc, *,

On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 4:58 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:
> [...]
> So, there is now a bug out to try to correct this[1] and I am proposing that
> we NOT use the last link but that we now use a more appropriate SilverStripe
> page here "https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/readme"; or just not have a
> "readme" page on our site and remove the sentence from the "readme" file.
> The QA people will eventually close the bug with a decision.

My stance on this was and will always be to not put links pointing to
currently available pages in whatever cms we're using. Editors will
keep removing or renaming pages, breaking the links. Site might be
restructured and links break.

So I advocate to use hub.libreoffice.org links - hub.libreoffice.org is meant to
* add a layer of abstraction.
* direct people to different pages depening on what version is used
and what language is used (when that info is passed as parameter)

> In the meantime, we have all the past versions of LibreOffice pointing to
> the page that does not exit.

And especially to solve that problem. any no-longer existing
hub.libreoffice.org links could be redirected to a "looks like you're
using an outdated version" or similar page without much of a hassle.

Especially with links that should point to different NL-Pages, adding
direct links to de.libreoffice.org, nl.libreoffice.org, etc is a no-go
in my opinion. As you cannot add links for langauges that don't have
that page yet/don't exist yet into LibreOffice. And it is already hard
enough to keep pages needed for links put into old releases on the
english page, it is a magnitude more complicated to heep those around
on many sites.

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] About Us website -- new Hungarian translation button?

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Marc, *,

On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 4:33 AM, Marc Paré  wrote:
>
> There is a new button showing on our About Us section.

You're viewing the page in draft mode :-)

> Unless there has been
> a change in decision, we had discussed that we would NOT opt for automatic
> SilverStripe translations of pages

disclaimer: they are not "automatic".

> but rather opt for either localization or
> self-translations of pages.

More precise: We decided to have individual nl-subsites that host the
translations of the mainpage / their own stuff.

> Should this be removed? Or do we decide to allow the translation page to
> stay there?

Yes, should be removed - but as it is not on the public site, no problem.

hu.libreoffice.org exists and is populated, so even less reason to
have a single page on the www.libreoffice.org domain...

> My vote is to keep to our original decision of NOT USING THE SILVERSTRIPE
> FEATURE otherwise, the site will start looking like a mix of different
> choices and it will not be of a uniform flow.

More precise: Not use it on www.libreoffice.org (as it is used on the
donate.libreoffice.org site for example)

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Malta Mirror

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Jonathan, *;

On Sat, Feb 2, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Jonathan Aquilina
 wrote:
> Also im not sure if this has been brought up a friend of mine is working on
> the maltese translation of the website is it posisble to have all download
> links on there pointing to the mirror once it is up and running by default?

No - you could of course manually add the links, but the whole point
of the download pages is to remove the need for people manually
updating all the links all the time.

Manually pointing to one single mirror also is a bad idea. mirrorbrain
should direct all maltese users to your mirror anyway, and for people
not living on Malta, using that mirror would not be preferable.
And if your mirror is not reachable for some reason, you only get
broken links

So once your system is available, all maltese users will be able to
use that, no matter from what downloadpage they come. They download
from www.libreoffice.org but live close to your mirror → they will be
directed to your mirror..

ciao
Christian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Exiting out of SilverStripe opens up a new tab on FF/Linux

[Christian Lohmaier]

Hi Pawel,

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Pawel Konefal  wrote:
>
> there's similar issue with main logo on all LibO websites.

I fail to see how that issue is remotely related to opening a second
tab when logging out of the cms

> This logo is
> linked to international, EN LibO website.
>
> Shouldn't be this linked to currently used NL website?

Whether it should? Maybe. Whether it can be done: Sure.

ciao
Christian

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