Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
I second this suggestion - it allows sufficient freedom to express meaningful content, since anything that would push us into an R rating would be very awkward to try and express within wesnoth. Furthermore, it offers an extremely large body of work to act as a legal precedent, per se - we can look at general examples of things in movies to judge whether something is appropriate/inappropriate. Obviously, there have been gross inconsistencies in how the MPAA has applied their ratings, but they've done a reasonably good job, as well as any human beings could be expected to. That is to say, it greatly clarifies what is/isn't appropriate, so that we'd be less likely to repeat this inane discussion (is this the third time this has rolled around? Fourth? Thirtieth?). So the policy guideline I suggest is: BfW contentent must be compatible with a an MPAA PG-13 or ESRB T rating. ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
OK, there's really 2 parts to this suggestion: 1) mainline Wesnoth should have clearer content ratings 2) mainline Wesnoth should contain more mature content than it has in the past. I don't have a problem with #1. I am against #2. I'm proud of the fact that i can recommend Wesnoth as a non-brain-rotting alternative to for any child old enough to comprehend it, (almost) no matter what the standards of the parents. From a perpetuation-of-Wesnoth standpoint, i suppose that while very young players don't add much to the community now, if Wesnoth was one of their first real games, they are more likely to care about Wesnoth when they have matured enough to contribute. I'm not deeply familiar with ESRB ratings, but it seems that E+10 most accurately describes Wesnoth up to the re-inclusion of SotBE. E10+ Everyone 10+: Contains content that may be suitable for ages 10 and older. Titles in this category may contain more cartoon, fantasy or mild violence, mild language, minimal and/or infrequent blood and/or minimal suggestive themes. Why should we change the de-facto rating of Wesnoth to accommodate the addition of terms like tree-shagger? That would be a case of the tail wagging the dog. I understand that many kinds of stories can't really be told at a E10+ level, but does mainline Wesnoth really need those stories? I place more value on presenting Wesnoth to a broader, younger audience. - eleazar / j.w.bjerk On May 20, 2007, at 3:01 AM, Richard Kettering wrote: I second this suggestion - it allows sufficient freedom to express meaningful content, since anything that would push us into an R rating would be very awkward to try and express within wesnoth. Furthermore, it offers an extremely large body of work to act as a legal precedent, per se - we can look at general examples of things in movies to judge whether something is appropriate/inappropriate. Obviously, there have been gross inconsistencies in how the MPAA has applied their ratings, but they've done a reasonably good job, as well as any human beings could be expected to. That is to say, it greatly clarifies what is/isn't appropriate, so that we'd be less likely to repeat this inane discussion (is this the third time this has rolled around? Fourth? Thirtieth?). So the policy guideline I suggest is: BfW contentent must be compatible with a an MPAA PG-13 or ESRB T rating. ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Why should we change the de-facto rating of Wesnoth to accommodate the addition of terms like tree-shagger? That would be a case of the tail wagging the dog. We were already at PG-13 in MPAA terms. I was suggesting we adopt ESRB T rather than ESRB E10+ only to be consistent with the MPAA rating. Jetryl has already made the case for a consistent PG-13 rating quite well. I will only add that I think PG-13 is an easier test to apply than E10+, which is not insignificant as I think wee don't want to spend a lot of bandwidth on these arguments in the future. -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
Rating systems are notoriously bad guides for making decisions about this issue. We might already be some particular rating based upon the violence in wesnoth, but that does not mean we should raise our language use, sexual inuendos, and drug use to match. Personally, I would find a comparison to Tolkien a much more useful practice than movies and even other games. As a master of language and storytelling, I think we would be hard put to find a better reference. In that vein, here are some examples of what Tolkien considered acceptable terms for Orcs to use as insults in order to provide flavor and show how crude they were: In the Hobbit orcs call the dwarves liars, thieves, and worst of all elf-friends...gasp. Trolls call each other by the insults, fat fool, lout, and booby. Ok, the hobbit is pretty tame, and we don't really see much of the orcs, so let's look in the lotr. Well, we get our most extensive orc conversations in the two towers. here is some of what might be considered insults:. we catch the orcs saying Ugluk u bagronk sha pushdug Saruman-glob bubhosh skai. There are at least two different translations of that: Uglúk to the dung-pit with stinking Saruman-filth, pig-guts, gah! and Uglúk to the cesspool, sha! the dungfilth; the great Saruman-fool, skai! We also get insults like: miserable rat, little fool, swine It's orc-flesh they eat*, mountain maggots,Ape!,lubber,little filth, We get a little more in the RotK: the dung,snaga**,bloody handed elves, filthy tarks***, dunghill rat,cursed sneaking peachthief,slugs I suppose there will be different cultural views on the relative crudity of tree-shagger as compared to Tolkien's insults, but I don't find it particularly compelling that the particular use of tree-shagger significantly adds to storyline or is necessary to make the orcs appear crude. I think it says more about us as developers than it reveals about the orcs. For one thing, it shows a lack of imagination. Surely with all the talent in wesnoth we can come up with a better phrase. Well, we probably can, but not without starting another holy war on the order of what to call the drake faction. Better, perhaps, than even Tolkien as a reference is the existing mainline campaigns as an example. I think that the burden lies on those who wish to include more crude comments into mainline campaigns to justify it against the advantages of maintaining a clean wholesome mainline which is not offensive to parents of children under 10. As was pointed out already, there is a whole campaign server available for other campaigns. Personally, I would be quite happy to never have to have this type of conversation again, but I expect that it will be a recurring feature as long as we maintain any standards of decency. Creeping crudism will be with us at least as long as creeping biggerism and featurism. *as opposed to eating man flesh which is considered a good thing to the orcs. **slave ***man of Gondor -- --- In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice they're different. --- John W. C. McNabb --- ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 23:08:19 -0500, Richard Kettering [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why are we having this discussion? Why are we dedicating such _exegesis to a word that 10-year olds would openly laugh at for its quaintness? Because the project has a guideline that says that material isn't supposed to contain vulgar or obscene stuff, but that guideline (a post from Dave) doesn't give much guidance as to where to draw the line. If we figure out where the line is here, then we can reuse that effort later in similar cases. ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
Bruno Wolff III [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 23:08:19 -0500, Richard Kettering [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why are we having this discussion? Why are we dedicating such _exegesis to a word that 10-year olds would openly laugh at for its quaintness? Because the project has a guideline that says that material isn't supposed to contain vulgar or obscene stuff, but that guideline (a post from Dave) doesn't give much guidance as to where to draw the line. If we figure out where the line is here, then we can reuse that effort later in similar cases. And I'm in favor of figuring out where that line is, so I don't really mind tree-shagger being a test case. Having different standards for campaign teasers vs. storyline text does not make sense to me -- it would be false advertising. I think movie ratings are a good paradigm to think in terms of. But I'll get to ESRB ratings. We want kids to be able to play the game, so R- or X-rated language and content is right out. On the other hand, pretending we want to be G-rated is silly; it would never happen. This is a game that includes violence and evil with a significant horror element. (Dunno about you, but *my* blood chilled in TROW when the Fool Prince said Father!...Join...us...) PG-13 is what's left, and seems reasonable to me. I looked at the ESRB ratings page: http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp In those terms, BfW is clearly E10+, with or without tree-shagger (this rating permits mild language, suggestive themes). I think I would prefer our policy to aim at T, which is obviously designed as a PG-13 equivalent. So the policy guideline I suggest is: BfW contentent must be compatible with a an MPAA PG-13 or ESRB T rating. -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
Personally, I don't feel that there would be much loss to the character of the Orcs if they said tree-huggers instead of tree-shaggers. Is it so important to the storyline for them to use the more vulger phase that such a small change should not be made? -- --- In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice they're different. --- John W. C. McNabb --- ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
John McNabb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Personally, I don't feel that there would be much loss to the character of the Orcs if they said tree-huggers instead of tree-shaggers. Is it so important to the storyline for them to use the more vulger phase that such a small change should not be made? I don't think that's a small change. Not in idiomatic English, anyway. -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
Can you be more explicit about why it is not a small change as far as its importance to the storyline of the campaign? On 5/15/07, Eric S. Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John McNabb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Personally, I don't feel that there would be much loss to the character of the Orcs if they said tree-huggers instead of tree-shaggers. Is it so important to the storyline for them to use the more vulger phase that such a small change should not be made? I don't think that's a small change. Not in idiomatic English, anyway. -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev -- --- In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice they're different. --- John W. C. McNabb --- ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
I agree tree-hugger would be ridiculous. No one is suggesting that the orcs need to be polite. But is it not in your power to cook up a less vulgar epithet for the elves? You managed it for the dwarves and humans. -eleazar / j.w.bjerk On May 15, 2007, at 5:48 PM, Eric S. Raymond wrote: John McNabb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Can you be more explicit about why it is not a small change as far as its importance to the storyline of the campaign? It establishes character for the orcs. They are the kind of beings who refer to elves as tree-shaggers. Like the other epithets I cooked up for them to use, it's both vulgar and faintly comical. Tree-hugger would be merely ridiculous -- makes 'em sound like crusty oldsters sneering at a Greenpeace rally. -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I agree tree-hugger would be ridiculous. No one is suggesting that the orcs need to be polite. But is it not in your power to cook up a less vulgar epithet for the elves? You managed it for the dwarves and humans. Trust me, if I could have invented ruder and more vulgar epithets for dwarves and humans without stepping over the line into scatology or obscenity, I certainly would have. -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
Why are we having this discussion? Why are we dedicating such _exegesis to a word that 10-year olds would openly laugh at for its quaintness? This censorship is going way over its bounds, if you ask me. I do not think it is doing anything to further its stated goal; and as evidenced by the existence of this discussion, it's an impediment to writing material for the game. It's also a waste of our time. A good rule of thumb for censorship is that if said censorship would, if fairly applied, flag the bible as unsuitable for children; then it's too strong. On May 15, 2007, at 8:01 PM, Eric S. Raymond wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I agree tree-hugger would be ridiculous. No one is suggesting that the orcs need to be polite. But is it not in your power to cook up a less vulgar epithet for the elves? You managed it for the dwarves and humans. Trust me, if I could have invented ruder and more vulgar epithets for dwarves and humans without stepping over the line into scatology or obscenity, I certainly would have. -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
Bruno Wolff III [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I noticed the description for the SotBE campaign uses the term tree-shagger to refer to elves. For a mailine campaign it might be better to use a more family friendly term such as tree-hugger. Um...they's *orcs*, not Sunday-school teachers! -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
Rusty Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: But since orcs aren't supposed to be polite, I assumed this was deliberate. It was quite deliberate. When I reworked the SotBE prose, I spent some time thinking up Orcish epithets for the other speaking peoples. Human-worms, stinky-midgets, tree-shaggers -- they're *supposed* to sound rude and obscene; that's the *point*! If Austin Powers: The Spy who Shagged Me could be marketed as PG-13 (and it was) then I think we're on pretty safe ground as regards actual obscenity. -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
It's been our long-standing practice to try to keep mainline generally unobjectionable in ways that don't compromise the fundamental nature of Wesnoth. In other words we don't attempt to make people happy who dislike *all* depictions of violence, but we do try to keep *unnecessary* things out of mainline that could turn people away from Wesnoth. We have a looser standard for campaigns on the add-on server, and if SotBE needs to be mildly obscene, it should be returned there. - eleazar j.w.bjerk On May 14, 2007, at 12:00 PM, Eric S. Raymond wrote: Rusty Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED]: But since orcs aren't supposed to be polite, I assumed this was deliberate. It was quite deliberate. When I reworked the SotBE prose, I spent some time thinking up Orcish epithets for the other speaking peoples. Human-worms, stinky-midgets, tree-shaggers -- they're *supposed* to sound rude and obscene; that's the *point*! If Austin Powers: The Spy who Shagged Me could be marketed as PG-13 (and it was) then I think we're on pretty safe ground as regards actual obscenity. -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It's been our long-standing practice to try to keep mainline generally unobjectionable? in ways that don't compromise the fundamental nature of Wesnoth. Fine, let's define a standard. Is PG-13 unobjectionable? -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
Am Montag 14 Mai 2007 schrieb Eric S. Raymond: Fine, let's define a standard. Is PG-13 unobjectionable? Wesnoth has many players younger then 10 AFAIK. Bye David ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 13:00:54 -0400, Eric S. Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Austin Powers: The Spy who Shagged Me could be marketed as PG-13 (and it was) then I think we're on pretty safe ground as regards actual obscenity. It might be nice to hear from some British English speakers to get a feeling about just how vulgar shagger is there. Would parents not want children of say age 10 even seeing the word? In the US the term isn't really used and most people are going to associate it with the first Austin Powers movie rather than with the British slang from which it came. The movie title was advertised on TV when it came out, so arguably it isn't likely to be something parents are going to care if their children see here. ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
Bruno Wolff III [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So I wasn't asking for it to be changed as much as people to conciously decide whether or not it was inline with the project's guidelines. I'd like to see some consensus on that myself. -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
Bruno Wolff III [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 13:00:54 -0400, Eric S. Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Austin Powers: The Spy who Shagged Me could be marketed as PG-13 (and it was) then I think we're on pretty safe ground as regards actual obscenity. It might be nice to hear from some British English speakers to get a feeling about just how vulgar shagger is there. Would parents not want children of say age 10 even seeing the word? My native dialect is Middle American, but I've lived in Great Britain. My understanding is that the term is considered vulgar but not obscene, comparable to, say, American use of v. hump to describe sex (especially animal sex). Shag , however, has different connotations -- it suggests vigorous, rough sex. As with many such mild scatologies, there is more social license to use them in comedy or satire than in a serious way. I'm pretty certain a British parent wouldn't be disturbed if their 10-year-old kid(s) were exposed to the movie title, but they'd be disturbed if their kids *used* it. -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
Hmmm i am not sure if there is a non vulgar way to translate that in french On 5/15/07, Eric S. Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bruno Wolff III [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 13:00:54 -0400, Eric S. Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If Austin Powers: The Spy who Shagged Me could be marketed as PG-13 (and it was) then I think we're on pretty safe ground as regards actual obscenity. It might be nice to hear from some British English speakers to get a feeling about just how vulgar shagger is there. Would parents not want children of say age 10 even seeing the word? My native dialect is Middle American, but I've lived in Great Britain. My understanding is that the term is considered vulgar but not obscene, comparable to, say, American use of v. hump to describe sex (especially animal sex). Shag , however, has different connotations -- it suggests vigorous, rough sex. As with many such mild scatologies, there is more social license to use them in comedy or satire than in a serious way. I'm pretty certain a British parent wouldn't be disturbed if their 10-year-old kid(s) were exposed to the movie title, but they'd be disturbed if their kids *used* it. -- a href=http://www.catb.org/~esr/;Eric S. Raymond/a ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
Is there agreement that shagger shouldn't be used with a campaign shipped with Wesnoth? (Or at least not in the campaign description.) If there is can we replace tree-shagger with tree-hugger? Tree-hugger is often used in the US as a disapproving way to refer to environmentalists. So I think it would keep the negative connotation without using a word that might keep a parent from wanting their younger kids to play the game. ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 00:09:43 -0500, Bruno Wolff III [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed the description for the SotBE campaign uses the term tree-shagger to refer to elves. For a mailine campaign it might be better to use a more family friendly term such as tree-hugger. Since there are a lot of nonnative English speakers here and the reference is actually British slang, I'll provide a reference: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shagger The 5th entry seems to be the usage in SotBE. This actually may be obscure enough that it isn't a big deal. (Though I wonder what it is getting translated as.) ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
It's worth noting, for our non-english developers, that although that may be british slang, it's universally understood by americans; and I'd wager nearly all native speakers of the language as well. On May 12, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote: On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 00:09:43 -0500, Bruno Wolff III [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed the description for the SotBE campaign uses the term tree-shagger to refer to elves. For a mailine campaign it might be better to use a more family friendly term such as tree-hugger. Since there are a lot of nonnative English speakers here and the reference is actually British slang, I'll provide a reference: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shagger The 5th entry seems to be the usage in SotBE. This actually may be obscure enough that it isn't a big deal. (Though I wonder what it is getting translated as.) ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
I agree, shagger would be commonly understood by Americans. Obscurity really isn't a good defense anyway. We shouldn't needlessly use a word that is not expected to be understood, especially in the campaign description. I don't see the need for stronger language in this situation. The last sentence is rather long and unwieldy anyway. -j.w.bjerk / eleazar Original Message Subject: Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy From: Richard Kettering [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, May 12, 2007 6:53 pm To: dev-talk wesnoth-dev@gna.org It's worth noting, for our non-english developers, that although that may be british slang, it's universally understood by americans; and I'd wager nearly all native speakers of the language as well. On May 12, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Bruno Wolff III wrote: On Sat, May 12, 2007 at 00:09:43 -0500, Bruno Wolff III [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed the description for the SotBE campaign uses the term tree-shagger to refer to elves. For a mailine campaign it might be better to use a more family friendly term such as tree-hugger. Since there are a lot of nonnative English speakers here and the reference is actually British slang, I'll provide a reference: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shagger The 5th entry seems to be the usage in SotBE. This actually may be obscure enough that it isn't a big deal. (Though I wonder what it is getting translated as.) ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
Re: [Wesnoth-dev] SotBE description a bit racy
On Sat, 2007-05-12 at 18:44 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree, shagger would be commonly understood by Americans. Obscurity really isn't a good defense anyway. We shouldn't needlessly use a word that is not expected to be understood, especially in the campaign description. (As an Australian) I must admit to being surprised at the word. My association is with the 1999 movie Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me. But since orcs aren't supposed to be polite, I assumed this was deliberate. Rusty. ___ Wesnoth-dev mailing list Wesnoth-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/wesnoth-dev
