Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Ayodeji Aladejebi]

Technological inertia is hard to fight


wicket is building momentum required to handle struts' inertia, give it
time. I was going to ask the wicket leads to give us a graph showing
wicket's growth generally especially checking download figures this year
against last year and mailing list figures...


On 5/24/07, Marc Stock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



The company I'm currently working at is a Struts 1 shop.  Like most
companies, they tend to stick with technologies they know even if they are
inferrior.  Right now I'm working on a Wicket prototype for them but it is
likely they will stay a Struts shop.  Technological inertia is hard to
fight.  It's a million times easier for a company to find Struts resources
than Wicket (or virtually any other framework) resources.  However, that
is
an extremely shortsided way to evaluate switching frameworks.  For
example,
lets say they have to train everyone they hire because they can't find
people with Wicket experience.  In my experience, it's taken me about two
weeks to get up to speed on Wicket.  I'm no expert yet but I think I have
a
pretty good foundation and most of my questions about the framework are
regarding more advanced problems involving Ajax.  So the cost to the
company
so far has been two weeks of me learning Wicket (from knowing nothing at
all).  Now, the prototype that I have so far would have probably taken me
at
least two weeks in Struts 1 and I already know Struts 1 very well.  The
difference in productivity between the two frameworks is pretty dramatic.
Wicket is simply far superior for the typical website.  About the only
time
I wouldn't consider Wicket is for high volume websites like Amazon.com,
etc.
However, they don't even use Java either.

I say all this because you're biggest problem will be this inertia and
they
will resist any change even if the technology is much better simply
because
people are too lazy to learn new things.  Make sure they understand that
there's far more to consider than the initial learning period and that
long
term productivity must be evaluated to make an educated decision.

So far my biggest complaint about Wicket is the documentation is scattered
around the wiki and you basically have to learn it by studying example
code.
It's unfortunate that such a cool framework is so lacking
documentation.  I
would recommend buying Pro Wicket.  It's not super comprehensive but it's
a
lot better than nothing.  Wicket In Action is in progress but not
completed
yet but I'm sure that will be a great addition and maybe fix a lot of the
documentation weaknesses.



Florian Hehlen-2 wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the feedback. We are contemplating doing some prototyping. I
> am currently implementing a small application within the group with
> wicket but it is not clear weather we will have the time to do the same
> for struts. On the other hand most people in the group have some level
> of experience with struts.
>
> When is 1.3 being released?
>
> regards,
> florian
>
> Johan Compagner wrote:
>> can't you make 2 prototypes of the same application with your team and
>> then see how it works?
>>
>>
>>
>> 3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.
>>
>>
>>
>> hope you have a magnifying glass with you then because that is
>> ofcourse hard to find ;)
>> But most people would say i guess use of session memory. But we manage
>> that for you
>> and in 1.3 this is much lighter then before. And i have seen struts
>> apps that did take
>> 1MB of session memory and most of the time that where also leaks
>> because of session objects
>> that wheren't cleaned correctly because the developer needed some
>> state from Page X to Page Y.
>> but forgot to clean it up or the user never got to Page Y.
>>
>> johan
>>
>>

>>
>>
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Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Marc Stock]

The company I'm currently working at is a Struts 1 shop.  Like most
companies, they tend to stick with technologies they know even if they are
inferrior.  Right now I'm working on a Wicket prototype for them but it is
likely they will stay a Struts shop.  Technological inertia is hard to
fight.  It's a million times easier for a company to find Struts resources
than Wicket (or virtually any other framework) resources.  However, that is
an extremely shortsided way to evaluate switching frameworks.  For example,
lets say they have to train everyone they hire because they can't find
people with Wicket experience.  In my experience, it's taken me about two
weeks to get up to speed on Wicket.  I'm no expert yet but I think I have a
pretty good foundation and most of my questions about the framework are
regarding more advanced problems involving Ajax.  So the cost to the company
so far has been two weeks of me learning Wicket (from knowing nothing at
all).  Now, the prototype that I have so far would have probably taken me at
least two weeks in Struts 1 and I already know Struts 1 very well.  The
difference in productivity between the two frameworks is pretty dramatic. 
Wicket is simply far superior for the typical website.  About the only time
I wouldn't consider Wicket is for high volume websites like Amazon.com, etc. 
However, they don't even use Java either.  

I say all this because you're biggest problem will be this inertia and they
will resist any change even if the technology is much better simply because
people are too lazy to learn new things.  Make sure they understand that
there's far more to consider than the initial learning period and that long
term productivity must be evaluated to make an educated decision.

So far my biggest complaint about Wicket is the documentation is scattered
around the wiki and you basically have to learn it by studying example code. 
It's unfortunate that such a cool framework is so lacking documentation.  I
would recommend buying Pro Wicket.  It's not super comprehensive but it's a
lot better than nothing.  Wicket In Action is in progress but not completed
yet but I'm sure that will be a great addition and maybe fix a lot of the
documentation weaknesses.



Florian Hehlen-2 wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. We are contemplating doing some prototyping. I 
> am currently implementing a small application within the group with 
> wicket but it is not clear weather we will have the time to do the same 
> for struts. On the other hand most people in the group have some level 
> of experience with struts.
> 
> When is 1.3 being released?
> 
> regards,
> florian
> 
> Johan Compagner wrote:
>> can't you make 2 prototypes of the same application with your team and 
>> then see how it works?
>>
>>
>>
>> 3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.
>>
>>
>>
>> hope you have a magnifying glass with you then because that is 
>> ofcourse hard to find ;)
>> But most people would say i guess use of session memory. But we manage 
>> that for you
>> and in 1.3 this is much lighter then before. And i have seen struts 
>> apps that did take
>> 1MB of session memory and most of the time that where also leaks 
>> because of session objects
>> that wheren't cleaned correctly because the developer needed some 
>> state from Page X to Page Y.
>> but forgot to clean it up or the user never got to Page Y.
>>
>> johan
>>
>> 
>>
>> -
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
>> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
>> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
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>> 
>>
>> ___
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>> Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
>>   
> 
> 
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> 
> 

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Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael]

Thats why peeps should add a user story if the site are non 
browsable(thats the part were you mention a video:).. But yeah I guess 
you're right:)

Martijn Dashorst wrote:
> That is because there is little point in putting intranet applications
> (or non-public facing applications) on the wiki: nobody can see the
> applications or browse them.
>
> /me reminds himself to create a video of some sorts for the application built.
>
> Martijn
>
> On 5/23/07, Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>> I must dissagree(on the part where you say that wicket are mostly used
>> in intranet apps), although not a wicket veteran yet(only been doing
>> wicket for around 1.5 years).
>>
>> The two projects I've been involved in during this periode has both been
>> using wicket. Both projects being commercially and also public
>> accessible. Also skimming the wiki looking at sites almost none seems to
>> be intranet ones..
>>
>> regards Nino
>>
>> Johan Compagner wrote:
>> 
>>> wicket is a very good fit for intranet development.
>>> I think it is mostly used in that kind of webapps.
>>>
>>> johan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/22/07, *Florian Hehlen* < [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> the reason we are comparing to Struts is that that's one of the
>>> contender. We are not a web-app shop. We need a general purpose
>>> toolkit for intranet development. But since struts is so popular
>>> it's being pitted against wicket.
>>>
>>> Florian
>>>
>>>
>>> Erik van Oosten wrote:
>>>   
 Hi Florian,

 1- I am surprised you want to compare against Struts. Almost any 
 modern web
 framework will kick ass compared to Struts.

 2- I know only of one. It is the first article on this page on the 
 wiki:

 http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/articles-about-wicket.html. It has a 
 very

 nice comparison of Wicket and JSF listings. Its a simple application, 
 you
 can easily image how to do it in Struts.

 3- Wicket is weak at sites that need to handle millions of hits per 
 minute
 (not many frameworks are good at this). Wicket is also not very good 
 if you

 need absolute and complete control on the format of your URLs. These 
 are
 both extremes. I think Wicket will do very well for at least 90% of 
 the web
 applications.

 Good luck,
 Erik.


 Florian Hehlen-2 wrote:


 
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for help presenting wicket to my development team.
>
> 1-Has anyone out there had to defend wicket vs. struts and would you
> have any resources/links/presentations to pass this way to help in
>
> presenting wicket to our group?
>
> 2-Has anyone made any measurements/analysis of the code-base needed 
> for
> identical application in wicket vs. struts(or any other framework)
>
> 3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.
>
>
> florian
>
>
>   
>>> 
>>> -
>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
>>> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
>>> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
>>> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
>>> ___
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>>> Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> 
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> -
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>>> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
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>>>
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
>>>
>>>   
>> -
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>> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
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>> Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
>>
>> 
>
>
>   

---

Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Martijn Dashorst]

That is because there is little point in putting intranet applications
(or non-public facing applications) on the wiki: nobody can see the
applications or browse them.

/me reminds himself to create a video of some sorts for the application built.

Martijn

On 5/23/07, Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I must dissagree(on the part where you say that wicket are mostly used
> in intranet apps), although not a wicket veteran yet(only been doing
> wicket for around 1.5 years).
>
> The two projects I've been involved in during this periode has both been
> using wicket. Both projects being commercially and also public
> accessible. Also skimming the wiki looking at sites almost none seems to
> be intranet ones..
>
> regards Nino
>
> Johan Compagner wrote:
> > wicket is a very good fit for intranet development.
> > I think it is mostly used in that kind of webapps.
> >
> > johan
> >
> >
> > On 5/22/07, *Florian Hehlen* < [EMAIL PROTECTED]  > PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > the reason we are comparing to Struts is that that's one of the
> > contender. We are not a web-app shop. We need a general purpose
> > toolkit for intranet development. But since struts is so popular
> > it's being pitted against wicket.
> >
> > Florian
> >
> >
> > Erik van Oosten wrote:
> >> Hi Florian,
> >>
> >> 1- I am surprised you want to compare against Struts. Almost any 
> >> modern web
> >> framework will kick ass compared to Struts.
> >>
> >> 2- I know only of one. It is the first article on this page on the 
> >> wiki:
> >>
> >> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/articles-about-wicket.html. It has a 
> >> very
> >>
> >> nice comparison of Wicket and JSF listings. Its a simple application, 
> >> you
> >> can easily image how to do it in Struts.
> >>
> >> 3- Wicket is weak at sites that need to handle millions of hits per 
> >> minute
> >> (not many frameworks are good at this). Wicket is also not very good 
> >> if you
> >>
> >> need absolute and complete control on the format of your URLs. These 
> >> are
> >> both extremes. I think Wicket will do very well for at least 90% of 
> >> the web
> >> applications.
> >>
> >> Good luck,
> >> Erik.
> >>
> >>
> >> Florian Hehlen-2 wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I am looking for help presenting wicket to my development team.
> >>>
> >>> 1-Has anyone out there had to defend wicket vs. struts and would you
> >>> have any resources/links/presentations to pass this way to help in
> >>>
> >>> presenting wicket to our group?
> >>>
> >>> 2-Has anyone made any measurements/analysis of the code-base needed 
> >>> for
> >>> identical application in wicket vs. struts(or any other framework)
> >>>
> >>> 3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> florian
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > 
> > -
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> > ___
> > Wicket-user mailing list
> > Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> > 
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > -
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> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
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> > 
> >
> > ___
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> > Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
> >
>
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> Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
>


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Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Nino Saturnino Martinez Vazquez Wael]

I must dissagree(on the part where you say that wicket are mostly used 
in intranet apps), although not a wicket veteran yet(only been doing 
wicket for around 1.5 years).

The two projects I've been involved in during this periode has both been 
using wicket. Both projects being commercially and also public 
accessible. Also skimming the wiki looking at sites almost none seems to 
be intranet ones..

regards Nino

Johan Compagner wrote:
> wicket is a very good fit for intranet development.
> I think it is mostly used in that kind of webapps.
>
> johan
>
>
> On 5/22/07, *Florian Hehlen* < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> the reason we are comparing to Struts is that that's one of the
> contender. We are not a web-app shop. We need a general purpose
> toolkit for intranet development. But since struts is so popular
> it's being pitted against wicket.
>
> Florian
>
>
> Erik van Oosten wrote:
>> Hi Florian,
>>
>> 1- I am surprised you want to compare against Struts. Almost any modern 
>> web
>> framework will kick ass compared to Struts.
>>
>> 2- I know only of one. It is the first article on this page on the wiki:
>>
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/articles-about-wicket.html. It has a very
>>
>> nice comparison of Wicket and JSF listings. Its a simple application, you
>> can easily image how to do it in Struts.
>>
>> 3- Wicket is weak at sites that need to handle millions of hits per 
>> minute
>> (not many frameworks are good at this). Wicket is also not very good if 
>> you
>>
>> need absolute and complete control on the format of your URLs. These are
>> both extremes. I think Wicket will do very well for at least 90% of the 
>> web
>> applications.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Erik. 
>>
>>
>> Florian Hehlen-2 wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am looking for help presenting wicket to my development team.
>>>
>>> 1-Has anyone out there had to defend wicket vs. struts and would you 
>>> have any resources/links/presentations to pass this way to help in 
>>>
>>> presenting wicket to our group?
>>>
>>> 2-Has anyone made any measurements/analysis of the code-base needed for 
>>> identical application in wicket vs. struts(or any other framework)
>>>
>>> 3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.
>>>
>>>
>>> florian
>>>
>>> 
>>   
>
>
> -
> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express
> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.
> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
> ___
> Wicket-user mailing list
> Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> 
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
>
>
> 
>
> -
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> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take
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>
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Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Eelco Hillenius]

> 1-Has anyone out there had to defend wicket vs. struts and would you
> have any resources/links/presentations to pass this way to help in
> presenting wicket to our group?

Yeah, a million times now :) Seriously, I think you can find quite a
bit googling (use model 2 vs wicket or something) or searching the
mailing list.

In a nutshell, imho disadvantages of Struts (and all model 2
frameworks like SpringMVC etc) are:
* no reuse
* no state management (making things like pageable lists etc and self
contained components tedious)
* no good abstractions (just actions in the scope of requests)
* no clean separation of presentation and logic (as with Struts you'd
use JSP or something similar)
* encourages bad coding practices (lots of hacks needed to get
something of any complexity done and coding with actions and page
flows is basically back to procedural programming again).

etc etc

> 3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.

It depends on how familiar you are with Wicket and whether you think
the alternatives are better. If you like to script in pages (like
you'd do with JSPs) Wicket is probably not for you. More of a taste
matter though. Then there's the fact that by default it uses server
memory. But that's easy to get around, and imho even if you use
stateless pages, forms and links for your whole application with
Wicket, which is a less nice and limited way to use Wicket, you'd
still have a nicer programming model than, say, Struts.

My2c (I can go on for a bit, but out of time now ;) )

Eelco

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Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Johan Compagner]

wicket is a very good fit for intranet development.
I think it is mostly used in that kind of webapps.

johan


On 5/22/07, Florian Hehlen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 Hi,

the reason we are comparing to Struts is that that's one of the contender.
We are not a web-app shop. We need a general purpose toolkit for intranet
development. But since struts is so popular it's being pitted against
wicket.

Florian

Erik van Oosten wrote:

Hi Florian,

1- I am surprised you want to compare against Struts. Almost any modern web
framework will kick ass compared to Struts.

2- I know only of one. It is the first article on this page on the wiki:
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/articles-about-wicket.html. It has a very
nice comparison of Wicket and JSF listings. Its a simple application, you
can easily image how to do it in Struts.

3- Wicket is weak at sites that need to handle millions of hits per minute
(not many frameworks are good at this). Wicket is also not very good if you
need absolute and complete control on the format of your URLs. These are
both extremes. I think Wicket will do very well for at least 90% of the web
applications.

Good luck,
Erik.


Florian Hehlen-2 wrote:

 Hi all,

I am looking for help presenting wicket to my development team.

1-Has anyone out there had to defend wicket vs. struts and would you
have any resources/links/presentations to pass this way to help in
presenting wicket to our group?

2-Has anyone made any measurements/analysis of the code-base needed for
identical application in wicket vs. struts(or any other framework)

3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.

florian



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Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Upayavira]

Florian Hehlen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> the reason we are comparing to Struts is that that's one of the 
> contender. We are not a web-app shop. We need a general purpose toolkit 
> for intranet development. But since struts is so popular it's being 
> pitted against wicket.

The thing I took from Matt's talk was that even if you are going to use 
Struts, you shouldn't use Struts 1 - Struts 2 is a much better framework.

Thus, compared against struts itself, struts 1 is itself outdated.

Upayavira

> Erik van Oosten wrote:
>> Hi Florian,
>>
>> 1- I am surprised you want to compare against Struts. Almost any modern web
>> framework will kick ass compared to Struts.
>>
>> 2- I know only of one. It is the first article on this page on the wiki:
>> http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/articles-about-wicket.html. It has a very
>> nice comparison of Wicket and JSF listings. Its a simple application, you
>> can easily image how to do it in Struts.
>>
>> 3- Wicket is weak at sites that need to handle millions of hits per minute
>> (not many frameworks are good at this). Wicket is also not very good if you
>> need absolute and complete control on the format of your URLs. These are
>> both extremes. I think Wicket will do very well for at least 90% of the web
>> applications.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Erik. 
>>
>>
>> Florian Hehlen-2 wrote:
>>   
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am looking for help presenting wicket to my development team.
>>>
>>> 1-Has anyone out there had to defend wicket vs. struts and would you 
>>> have any resources/links/presentations to pass this way to help in 
>>> presenting wicket to our group?
>>>
>>> 2-Has anyone made any measurements/analysis of the code-base needed for 
>>> identical application in wicket vs. struts(or any other framework)
>>>
>>> 3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.
>>>
>>> florian
>>>
>>> 
>>
>>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Florian Hehlen]

Hi,

the reason we are comparing to Struts is that that's one of the 
contender. We are not a web-app shop. We need a general purpose toolkit 
for intranet development. But since struts is so popular it's being 
pitted against wicket.


Florian

Erik van Oosten wrote:

Hi Florian,

1- I am surprised you want to compare against Struts. Almost any modern web
framework will kick ass compared to Struts.

2- I know only of one. It is the first article on this page on the wiki:
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/articles-about-wicket.html. It has a very
nice comparison of Wicket and JSF listings. Its a simple application, you
can easily image how to do it in Struts.

3- Wicket is weak at sites that need to handle millions of hits per minute
(not many frameworks are good at this). Wicket is also not very good if you
need absolute and complete control on the format of your URLs. These are
both extremes. I think Wicket will do very well for at least 90% of the web
applications.

Good luck,
Erik. 



Florian Hehlen-2 wrote:
  

Hi all,

I am looking for help presenting wicket to my development team.

1-Has anyone out there had to defend wicket vs. struts and would you 
have any resources/links/presentations to pass this way to help in 
presenting wicket to our group?


2-Has anyone made any measurements/analysis of the code-base needed for 
identical application in wicket vs. struts(or any other framework)


3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.

florian




  


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Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Upayavira]

Florian Hehlen wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am looking for help presenting wicket to my development team.
> 
> 1-Has anyone out there had to defend wicket vs. struts and would you 
> have any resources/links/presentations to pass this way to help in 
> presenting wicket to our group?
> 
> 2-Has anyone made any measurements/analysis of the code-base needed for 
> identical application in wicket vs. struts(or any other framework)
> 
> 3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.

Check out:

http://static.raibledesigns.com/repository/presentations/ComparingJavaWebFrameworks.pdf

It gives a reasonable analysis of the frameworks out there. Note that 
Matt had only been using wicket for a weekend when writing this, and he 
admitted that the wicket cons that he mentioned there were actually 
pros, but he had to put some 'con's down!

As to what I wouldn't use wicket for? Wicket is a tool for building 
sites with complex user interfaces, to manage user interaction. If you 
needed to serve large amounts of content from a backend store to 
anonymous users, Wicket wouldn't seem the obvious choice (however it 
might be for the app that manages that content).

Regards, Upayavira

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Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Erik van Oosten]

Hi Florian,

1- I am surprised you want to compare against Struts. Almost any modern web
framework will kick ass compared to Struts.

2- I know only of one. It is the first article on this page on the wiki:
http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/articles-about-wicket.html. It has a very
nice comparison of Wicket and JSF listings. Its a simple application, you
can easily image how to do it in Struts.

3- Wicket is weak at sites that need to handle millions of hits per minute
(not many frameworks are good at this). Wicket is also not very good if you
need absolute and complete control on the format of your URLs. These are
both extremes. I think Wicket will do very well for at least 90% of the web
applications.

Good luck,
Erik. 


Florian Hehlen-2 wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I am looking for help presenting wicket to my development team.
> 
> 1-Has anyone out there had to defend wicket vs. struts and would you 
> have any resources/links/presentations to pass this way to help in 
> presenting wicket to our group?
> 
> 2-Has anyone made any measurements/analysis of the code-base needed for 
> identical application in wicket vs. struts(or any other framework)
> 
> 3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.
> 
> florian
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/wicket-vs.-struts-presentation-tf3795289.html#a10735587
Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Florian Hehlen]

Hi,

Thanks for the feedback. We are contemplating doing some prototyping. I 
am currently implementing a small application within the group with 
wicket but it is not clear weather we will have the time to do the same 
for struts. On the other hand most people in the group have some level 
of experience with struts.


When is 1.3 being released?

regards,
florian

Johan Compagner wrote:
can't you make 2 prototypes of the same application with your team and 
then see how it works?




3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.



hope you have a magnifying glass with you then because that is 
ofcourse hard to find ;)
But most people would say i guess use of session memory. But we manage 
that for you
and in 1.3 this is much lighter then before. And i have seen struts 
apps that did take
1MB of session memory and most of the time that where also leaks 
because of session objects
that wheren't cleaned correctly because the developer needed some 
state from Page X to Page Y.

but forgot to clean it up or the user never got to Page Y.

johan



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Re: [Wicket-user] wicket vs. struts presentation

[Johan Compagner]

can't you make 2 prototypes of the same application with your team and then
see how it works?




3-Objectively, I am also looking for what wicket is weak at.




hope you have a magnifying glass with you then because that is ofcourse hard
to find ;)
But most people would say i guess use of session memory. But we manage that
for you
and in 1.3 this is much lighter then before. And i have seen struts apps
that did take
1MB of session memory and most of the time that where also leaks because of
session objects
that wheren't cleaned correctly because the developer needed some state from
Page X to Page Y.
but forgot to clean it up or the user never got to Page Y.

johan
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