Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
On 26.06.2015 01:50, Samuel Klein wrote: This is such a delightful experience. I have received this kind of email too. No,*this is not delightful at all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam). AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the definition of what you do is spamming (and please don't answer to this by talking about the opt-out option, opt-in is the respectful way of doing). Can you please stop this immediately? FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index Emmanuel -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
I still wonder what made a bot think I speak French? Surely, a few minor edits on fr.wp can't be the trigger? (well, I had two years at school, but I barely remember enough to identify the language...) On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 8:42 AM Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting viewpoint, Emmanuel! I am always fascinated to know what others think I might be interested in, even if the other is just a bot. Like Sam I was delighted, and I might even be prompted to do a translation (though not one of the ones they suggested, but an article which I made myself and is in the same general area). I disagree by the way, that each Wikipedia has to decide on their own what is encyclopedia worthy in that language. I think the projects need to start trusting each other more and be open to *aggressive* translation efforts as a way to educate new (multi-lingual) editors, and also to promote a neutral point of view. Let's wikibomb everybody aggressively with translation suggestions! On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org wrote: On 26.06.2015 01:50, Samuel Klein wrote: This is such a delightful experience. I have received this kind of email too. No,*this is not delightful at all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam ). AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the definition of what you do is spamming (and please don't answer to this by talking about the opt-out option, opt-in is the respectful way of doing). Can you please stop this immediately? FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index Emmanuel -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
Interesting viewpoint, Emmanuel! I am always fascinated to know what others think I might be interested in, even if the other is just a bot. Like Sam I was delighted, and I might even be prompted to do a translation (though not one of the ones they suggested, but an article which I made myself and is in the same general area). I disagree by the way, that each Wikipedia has to decide on their own what is encyclopedia worthy in that language. I think the projects need to start trusting each other more and be open to *aggressive* translation efforts as a way to educate new (multi-lingual) editors, and also to promote a neutral point of view. Let's wikibomb everybody aggressively with translation suggestions! On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org wrote: On 26.06.2015 01:50, Samuel Klein wrote: This is such a delightful experience. I have received this kind of email too. No,*this is not delightful at all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam ). AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the definition of what you do is spamming (and please don't answer to this by talking about the opt-out option, opt-in is the respectful way of doing). Can you please stop this immediately? FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index Emmanuel -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
Interesting, I figured I received the mail because of joining translation projects. It seems that it's enough to have made a single edit in both language wikipedias in the last year. I hope you will do this in both directions for each language pair (both suggestions from FR -- EN and from EN -- FR.) On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org wrote: FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index The article eval programs like this one are really good. I agree that's a good source of prioritization of topics (whether or not a bot is involved; bots are people too). But this system isn't so good at identifying topics that haven't yet been written. S ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
I strongly disagree that this is spamming. Like others have mentioned, I was not offended by the email (though I wasn't delighted) by it either, I think it is a reasonable attempt to encourage editors to put some efforts into languages other than English. Plus it is easy to unsubscribe from the research mailing list. Jim On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org wrote: On 26.06.2015 01:50, Samuel Klein wrote: This is such a delightful experience. I have received this kind of email too. No,*this is not delightful at all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam ). AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the definition of what you do is spamming (and please don't answer to this by talking about the opt-out option, opt-in is the respectful way of doing). Can you please stop this immediately? FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index Emmanuel -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l -- Jim (tro...@gmail.com) Our love may not always be reciprocated, or even appreciated, but love is never wasted - Neal A Maxwell- ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
Spamming - a question what the e-mail function of WP is ment for. I was very surprised to get the request though my French is limited, I hardly ever edited on fr.WP, and the suggested topics have totally nothing to do with what I do on Wikipedia. So I do think that the mail was not quite appropriate, and it gives me a not so favorable impression about the people or initiative behind. Kind regards Ziko Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2015 schrieb Jim : I strongly disagree that this is spamming. Like others have mentioned, I was not offended by the email (though I wasn't delighted) by it either, I think it is a reasonable attempt to encourage editors to put some efforts into languages other than English. Plus it is easy to unsubscribe from the research mailing list. Jim On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','kel...@kiwix.org'); wrote: On 26.06.2015 01:50, Samuel Klein wrote: This is such a delightful experience. I have received this kind of email too. No,*this is not delightful at all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam ). AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the definition of what you do is spamming (and please don't answer to this by talking about the opt-out option, opt-in is the respectful way of doing). Can you please stop this immediately? FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index Emmanuel -- Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline more * Web: http://www.kiwix.org * Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline * more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org'); https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l -- Jim (tro...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','tro...@gmail.com');) Our love may not always be reciprocated, or even appreciated, but love is never wasted - Neal A Maxwell- ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
Hi everyone, Thank you for your feedback. It's really appreciated. My responses below, all in one-batch to avoid many emails to the list. Sorry if it's too long in advance. 2015-06-25 16:50 GMT-07:00 Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com: This is such a delightful experience. Whoever is working on translation interfaces and translation research this way: very nicely done indeed. Thank you! It's great to hear that you liked it. There are many things we would like to improve about the algorithm and hearing that you like it makes us more motivated. If you have more specific comments, feel free to leave us a comment on the talk page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research_talk:Increasing_article_coverage . The translation tool is owned by Language Engineering team. You can read more about it here https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation, though I'm guessing you've already seen that. Sorry if it's repetitive. On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org wrote: [...] I have received this kind of email too. No,*this is not delightful at all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam ). AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the definition of what you do is spamming (and please don't answer to this by talking about the opt-out option, opt-in is the respectful way of doing). Can you please stop this immediately? I'm sorry that you received an email when you don't like to receive one. This is not nice and I apologize for that. The opt-out option is available through the email you have received. We will make sure you do not receive any future research related emails if you unsubscribe. The test on French Wikipedia is over now. The opt-out/opt-in discussion deserves a dedicated effort considering the needs of everyone involved. I'm committed for improving the communications with users regarding research projects and will do what I can on that front. FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index Thank you for this pointer. On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting viewpoint, Emmanuel! I am always fascinated to know what others think I might be interested in, even if the other is just a bot. Like Sam I was delighted, and I might even be prompted to do a translation (though not one of the ones they suggested, but an article which I made myself and is in the same general area). I disagree by the way, that each Wikipedia has to decide on their own what is encyclopedia worthy in that language. I think the projects need to start trusting each other more and be open to *aggressive* translation efforts as a way to educate new (multi-lingual) editors, and also to promote a neutral point of view. Let's wikibomb everybody aggressively with translation suggestions! Jane, thank you for your comment. We're happy that you welcomed receiving such recommendations. For the purposes of this research, we are taking the following approach: we take a more global approach to identify missing content, rank them by their importance, and recommend them to editors. The editor should make the final call whether the recommendation they receive should go to the destination language. Ideally, we want to loop back editors' expertise and feedback to the algorithm, i.e., if you as an editor think a recommendation is not useful in a language, we should be able to collect that information from you, feed it to the algorithm, and let the algorithm learn. This needs to happen down the road (hopefully not too far down) for the algorithm to be able to serve the needs of each language and community. On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 1:29 AM, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: I still wonder what made a bot think I speak French? Surely, a few minor edits on fr.wp can't be the trigger? (well, I had two years at school, but I barely remember enough to identify the language...) I'am copying from here https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Increasing_article_coverage#Evaluation : We determine which editors are suitable for receiving recommendations for translating from the source to the target language via two methods. The first is scraping the target users' User pages for a Babel template that indicates that they speak the source language. The second is selecting target users who have an account with the same username in the source language, have made at least one edit in both the source and target Wikipedias, have made at least one edit in either language within the last year and have matching email addresses for the two accounts. Based on the feedback
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Juergen Fenn jf...@gmx.net wrote: Dear Leila, thank you for elaborating how this mailing came about. I would like to address the ethical aspect of your project. In saying For the purposes of this research, we are taking the following approach: we take a more global approach to identify missing content, rank them by their importance, and recommend them to editors. The editor should make the final call whether the recommendation they receive should go to the destination language. you certainly leave it to the editor whether or not to take action and actually translate an article you have suggested. However, I think a threshold is crossed here with the Wikimedia Foundation interfering into the editors' business. It has generally been accepted that the Foundation will not care about content creation, except for handling DMCA takedown requests as office actions. It still has to be addressed whether the Foundation may solicit the creation of content, and if so, in which manner? I gather from the discussion on German Wikipedia that most experienced editors think no. This is a volunteering project, and everyone taking part in it decides for himself what he would like to do. We have never had suggestions like this. Indeed, I think this is a delicate matter concerning the relation between the Community and the Foundation that should be dealt with in the first place. Which roles do we play? Or, which roles do you change, or rather play with? when sending out such a suggestion? And, of course, an opt-in for such experiments would be fine. I think a lot of people would even be inclined to subscribe to such a list because after all we are interested in what you are doing, aren't we? ;) Best regards, Jürgen. I see no reason why anyone should be restricted from good faith solicitations to add content. I particularly do not see why the WMF wouldn't be permitted to do so; obviously the volume and quality of content available across all projects is a core concern of the WMF. Soliciting the creation of content - i.e. identifying gaps and asking volunteers to pitch in - is not the same thing as managing content on the projects themselves. Any such concerns are confusing the core mission of the WMF with the legal particulars of Section 230 safe harbor. ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
Leila - great responses, thank you. On Jun 26, 2015 1:28 PM, Juergen Fenn jf...@gmx.net wrote: you certainly leave it to the editor whether or not to take action and actually translate an article you have suggested. However, I think a threshold is crossed here with the Wikimedia Foundation interfering into the editors' business. It has generally been accepted that the Foundation will not care about content creation, except for handling DMCA takedown requests as office actions. The WMF has cared openly about content creation since at least 2009 when quality and content metrics, and the breadth and diversity of contributors (because of its impact on content) were made core strategic goals. But I think this is a more interesting question here: not 'can (one actor) solicit creation', but 'how can one part of the community solicit creation at large scale'. Yes, the WMF is involved with this effort So is Stanford. But it seems this is closer to people testing the first bots: it is about building a code and social framework in which anyone could run an outreach campaign by finding other contributors according to some metric, and asking them to do tasks according to some other metric. That is what's primarily at stake here: whether this makes sense and how to do it well. Then secondarily, who should do it, how often, with what level of explicit buy-in. Regards, Sam ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
One concern I would raise with a straight opt-out system is simply that, as someone who received the email (and was incredibly confused. I don't speak French and had never heard of the underlying project) I /am/ interested in research projects. I'm just not interested in research projects in, well, French. It would be great to have something more granular than all emails or no emails On 26 June 2015 at 14:40, Leila Zia le...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi everyone, Thank you for your feedback. It's really appreciated. My responses below, all in one-batch to avoid many emails to the list. Sorry if it's too long in advance. 2015-06-25 16:50 GMT-07:00 Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com: This is such a delightful experience. Whoever is working on translation interfaces and translation research this way: very nicely done indeed. Thank you! It's great to hear that you liked it. There are many things we would like to improve about the algorithm and hearing that you like it makes us more motivated. If you have more specific comments, feel free to leave us a comment on the talk page. The translation tool is owned by Language Engineering team. You can read more about it here, though I'm guessing you've already seen that. Sorry if it's repetitive. On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org wrote: [...] I have received this kind of email too. No,*this is not delightful at all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam). AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the definition of what you do is spamming (and please don't answer to this by talking about the opt-out option, opt-in is the respectful way of doing). Can you please stop this immediately? I'm sorry that you received an email when you don't like to receive one. This is not nice and I apologize for that. The opt-out option is available through the email you have received. We will make sure you do not receive any future research related emails if you unsubscribe. The test on French Wikipedia is over now. The opt-out/opt-in discussion deserves a dedicated effort considering the needs of everyone involved. I'm committed for improving the communications with users regarding research projects and will do what I can on that front. FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index Thank you for this pointer. On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting viewpoint, Emmanuel! I am always fascinated to know what others think I might be interested in, even if the other is just a bot. Like Sam I was delighted, and I might even be prompted to do a translation (though not one of the ones they suggested, but an article which I made myself and is in the same general area). I disagree by the way, that each Wikipedia has to decide on their own what is encyclopedia worthy in that language. I think the projects need to start trusting each other more and be open to *aggressive* translation efforts as a way to educate new (multi-lingual) editors, and also to promote a neutral point of view. Let's wikibomb everybody aggressively with translation suggestions! Jane, thank you for your comment. We're happy that you welcomed receiving such recommendations. For the purposes of this research, we are taking the following approach: we take a more global approach to identify missing content, rank them by their importance, and recommend them to editors. The editor should make the final call whether the recommendation they receive should go to the destination language. Ideally, we want to loop back editors' expertise and feedback to the algorithm, i.e., if you as an editor think a recommendation is not useful in a language, we should be able to collect that information from you, feed it to the algorithm, and let the algorithm learn. This needs to happen down the road (hopefully not too far down) for the algorithm to be able to serve the needs of each language and community. On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 1:29 AM, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: I still wonder what made a bot think I speak French? Surely, a few minor edits on fr.wp can't be the trigger? (well, I had two years at school, but I barely remember enough to identify the language...) I'am copying from here: We determine which editors are suitable for receiving recommendations for translating from the source to the target language via two methods. The first is scraping the target users' User pages for a Babel template that indicates that they speak the source language. The second is selecting target users who
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
Dear Leila, thank you for elaborating how this mailing came about. I would like to address the ethical aspect of your project. In saying For the purposes of this research, we are taking the following approach: we take a more global approach to identify missing content, rank them by their importance, and recommend them to editors. The editor should make the final call whether the recommendation they receive should go to the destination language. you certainly leave it to the editor whether or not to take action and actually translate an article you have suggested. However, I think a threshold is crossed here with the Wikimedia Foundation interfering into the editors' business. It has generally been accepted that the Foundation will not care about content creation, except for handling DMCA takedown requests as office actions. It still has to be addressed whether the Foundation may solicit the creation of content, and if so, in which manner? I gather from the discussion on German Wikipedia that most experienced editors think no. This is a volunteering project, and everyone taking part in it decides for himself what he would like to do. We have never had suggestions like this. Indeed, I think this is a delicate matter concerning the relation between the Community and the Foundation that should be dealt with in the first place. Which roles do we play? Or, which roles do you change, or rather play with? when sending out such a suggestion? And, of course, an opt-in for such experiments would be fine. I think a lot of people would even be inclined to subscribe to such a list because after all we are interested in what you are doing, aren't we? ;) Best regards, Jürgen. Am 26.06.2015 um 20:40 schrieb Leila Zia le...@wikimedia.org: Hi everyone, Thank you for your feedback. It's really appreciated. My responses below, all in one-batch to avoid many emails to the list. Sorry if it's too long in advance. 2015-06-25 16:50 GMT-07:00 Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com: This is such a delightful experience. Whoever is working on translation interfaces and translation research this way: very nicely done indeed. Thank you! It's great to hear that you liked it. There are many things we would like to improve about the algorithm and hearing that you like it makes us more motivated. If you have more specific comments, feel free to leave us a comment on the talk page. The translation tool is owned by Language Engineering team. You can read more about it here, though I'm guessing you've already seen that. Sorry if it's repetitive. On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org wrote: [...] I have received this kind of email too. No,*this is not delightful at all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam). AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the definition of what you do is spamming (and please don't answer to this by talking about the opt-out option, opt-in is the respectful way of doing). Can you please stop this immediately? I'm sorry that you received an email when you don't like to receive one. This is not nice and I apologize for that. The opt-out option is available through the email you have received. We will make sure you do not receive any future research related emails if you unsubscribe. The test on French Wikipedia is over now. The opt-out/opt-in discussion deserves a dedicated effort considering the needs of everyone involved. I'm committed for improving the communications with users regarding research projects and will do what I can on that front. FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index Thank you for this pointer. On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting viewpoint, Emmanuel! I am always fascinated to know what others think I might be interested in, even if the other is just a bot. Like Sam I was delighted, and I might even be prompted to do a translation (though not one of the ones they suggested, but an article which I made myself and is in the same general area). I disagree by the way, that each Wikipedia has to decide on their own what is encyclopedia worthy in that language. I think the projects need to start trusting each other more and be open to *aggressive* translation efforts as a way to educate new (multi-lingual) editors, and also to promote a neutral point of view. Let's wikibomb everybody aggressively with translation suggestions! Jane, thank you for your comment. We're happy that you welcomed receiving
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
2015-06-26 20:40 GMT+02:00 Leila Zia le...@wikimedia.org: Hi everyone, the way the algorithm makes the final recommendations is language agnostic Obviously. :-) I'm sorry if the recommendation has disappointed you. As mentioned in the recommendation email, you will be in one of the two groups: those who receive random but still important (with the algorithm's definition of importance) recommendations If my French was better, I had certainly read also the small letters in the footnote. :-) No offense taken, but I had liked to see the choice made with more care. In general, I don't have much trust in automatics making evaluations about people and their edit behavior. They should always be supervised by a human being (who would have seen, with two clicks, that I'm not suitable to translate to French). I am a little bit stunned by the fact that you seriously considered everyone with fr in a Babel template as francophone. Everywhere I have indicated fr-1 - except on my French user page where I describe my handicap in poor French. :-) Already in 2009/2010 I have discussed such issues in my https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Ziko/Handbuch-Allgemeines There is a phenomenon which I call foreign helpers. They are Wikipedians who edit significantly in language versions of which they don't or hardly understand the language. They remove obvious spam or embed pictures, or they post (English language) announcements at the village pump (forum). This explains why they have edits in many language versions, and why some small language versions seem to have quite a lot of editors. My recommendations: * Consider only people who indicate at least -3 in BOTH relevant languages. Actually, the version people translate to should be the native language. * They should have at least have 1000 edits in both language versions, to make sure they feel comfortable and experienced enough in both. Preferably rather recent edits. * How do you filter the topics people might be interested in? Kind regards Ziko ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
If I may make one suggestion, have a look at people's language preferences in the wikis concerned. My assumption is that if you know two languages well enough to translate between them you are unlikely to have opted for a different language for system messages. I have edits in lots of different languages, but I only understand English and in most of the wikis where I have any edits I have set my language preference to English. I don't object to receiving the email, but it was completely wasted on me. Regards Jonathan On 26 Jun 2015, at 19:40, Leila Zia le...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi everyone, Thank you for your feedback. It's really appreciated. My responses below, all in one-batch to avoid many emails to the list. Sorry if it's too long in advance. 2015-06-25 16:50 GMT-07:00 Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com: This is such a delightful experience. Whoever is working on translation interfaces and translation research this way: very nicely done indeed. Thank you! It's great to hear that you liked it. There are many things we would like to improve about the algorithm and hearing that you like it makes us more motivated. If you have more specific comments, feel free to leave us a comment on the talk page. The translation tool is owned by Language Engineering team. You can read more about it here, though I'm guessing you've already seen that. Sorry if it's repetitive. On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:29 AM, Emmanuel Engelhart kel...@kiwix.org wrote: [...] I have received this kind of email too. No,*this is not delightful at all*. This kind of email bores me, like many other Wikipedians (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Le_Bistro_du_jour#Wikimedia_Foundation_se_lance_dans_le_spam). AFAIK I don't have asked to received that kind of email, and the definition of what you do is spamming (and please don't answer to this by talking about the opt-out option, opt-in is the respectful way of doing). Can you please stop this immediately? I'm sorry that you received an email when you don't like to receive one. This is not nice and I apologize for that. The opt-out option is available through the email you have received. We will make sure you do not receive any future research related emails if you unsubscribe. The test on French Wikipedia is over now. The opt-out/opt-in discussion deserves a dedicated effort considering the needs of everyone involved. I'm committed for improving the communications with users regarding research projects and will do what I can on that front. FYI, the Wikipedia in French has an article evaluation program (like on Wikipedia in English) based on wikiprojects, so honestly I think they already know pretty well where are the weakness without the help of a robot: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:%C3%89valuation/Index Thank you for this pointer. On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Jane Darnell jane...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting viewpoint, Emmanuel! I am always fascinated to know what others think I might be interested in, even if the other is just a bot. Like Sam I was delighted, and I might even be prompted to do a translation (though not one of the ones they suggested, but an article which I made myself and is in the same general area). I disagree by the way, that each Wikipedia has to decide on their own what is encyclopedia worthy in that language. I think the projects need to start trusting each other more and be open to *aggressive* translation efforts as a way to educate new (multi-lingual) editors, and also to promote a neutral point of view. Let's wikibomb everybody aggressively with translation suggestions! Jane, thank you for your comment. We're happy that you welcomed receiving such recommendations. For the purposes of this research, we are taking the following approach: we take a more global approach to identify missing content, rank them by their importance, and recommend them to editors. The editor should make the final call whether the recommendation they receive should go to the destination language. Ideally, we want to loop back editors' expertise and feedback to the algorithm, i.e., if you as an editor think a recommendation is not useful in a language, we should be able to collect that information from you, feed it to the algorithm, and let the algorithm learn. This needs to happen down the road (hopefully not too far down) for the algorithm to be able to serve the needs of each language and community. On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 1:29 AM, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: I still wonder what made a bot think I speak French? Surely, a few minor edits on fr.wp can't be the trigger? (well, I had two years at school, but I barely remember enough to identify the language...) I'am copying from here: We determine which editors are suitable for receiving recommendations for translating from the source
Re: [Wiki-research-l] Aidez à améliorer l'exhaustivité de Wikipédia en français
Oh cool, you offer free French courses? Did I understand the e-Mail correctly? -- Rillke ___ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
