Re: [Wikidata-l] rank related changes

[Daniel Kinzler]

Am 10.03.2014 15:53, schrieb P. Blissenbach:
> If you read linguist literature, you'll find no clear cut definion of
> "lexeme" across all languages (nor "word" for that matter), you will find
> that relating lexemes of different languages per their semantic values (vulgo
> "translation") can be extremely difficult, and you will find lots of edge
> cases ("1" being a lexeme of many languages? Or none at all?) -- so coming to
> a workable solution about the meaning of "lexeme" and relations between
> labels and lexemes, and their possible other properties should be worth our
> while.

In that context - Purodha, what's your take on the Wiktionary proposal
? I'm curious what you think
of it. We briefly talked about this kind of model in Amsterdam last year - I
hope the proposal is what you hoped for, at least roughly :)

-- daniel

-- 
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Wikimedia Deutschland
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Re: [Wikidata-l] New introductory article on Wikidata

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
If you have not done so, it is well worth a read. It has details that I
have seen for the first time.
Thanks,
 GerardM


On 11 March 2014 18:42, Markus Krötzsch wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Denny and I are happy to report that our first general overview article on
> Wikidata has now been accepted for publication at Communications of the
> ACM. \o/ The article has not appeared yet, but we have published our
> accepted manuscript [1]. The final article should be published with Open
> Access, and thus be available at the official CACM website without
> subscription, but this may still take a bit of time (and some copyediting).
>
> We hope that this will help to introduce many more people to the project.
> It was written with a very wide audience in mind. All statistics in the
> article are quite recent (based on the dumps + daily dumps up to Feb 20
> 2014), but we will try to update them once more before publication (if at
> all possible).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Markus
>
> [1]
> "Wikidata: A Free Collaborative Knowledge Base"
> http://korrekt.org/page/Wikidata
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] difference between "instance of" and "is a list of" properties usages

[Magnus Manske]

Apparently, P107 still lurks in >1.4M items that don't have "instance of":
http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html?q=CLAIM%5B107%5D%20AND%20NOCLAIM%5B31%5D%20AND%20NOCLAIM%5B360%5D

(a few days out-of-date because Labs doesn't get daily Wikidata diff dumps
anymore, but still...)


On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:44 AM, Joe Filceolaire wrote:

> We used to use P107 with Q215627 i.e. 'Main Type:Person' with 'Person'
> defined by the GND categorisation system so that it includes mythical and
> fictional persons as well as humans.
>
> After a lot of discussion we agreed that person was too general so now we
> use 'instance of:human' and 'instance of:fictional character' and other
> similar statements. P107 is being removed - only 93 000 to go.
>
> Joe
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Alexander Jones wrote:
>
>> Read the description of Q215627: "being, e.g. a human, that has certain
>> capacities or attributes constituting personhood (not for use with
>> "instance
>> of" [P31], instead use "human" [Q5])"
>>
>> Alexander
>>
>> Hady elsahar wrote:
>>
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > i got confused between the usage of the two properties  "instance of "
>> > (P31)
>> > and "is a list of" (P360 )
>> > for example we can find that only 2K entities are listed as
>> > Person class using
>> >  P31 property while the rest are mainly P360 and P107
>> >
>> > numbers in details:
>> >
>> >   93979 
>> >2171 
>> >   60024 
>> >
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Regards
>> > -
>> > Hady El-Sahar
>> > Research Assistant
>> > Center of Informatics Sciences | Nile
>> > University
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] rank related changes

[P. Blissenbach]

"Daniel Kinzler"  writes:
> Am 10.03.2014 15:53, schrieb P. Blissenbach:
> > If you read linguist literature, you'll find no clear cut definion of
> > "lexeme" across all languages (nor "word" for that matter), you will find
> > that relating lexemes of different languages per their semantic values 
> > (vulgo
> > "translation") can be extremely difficult, and you will find lots of edge
> > cases ("1" being a lexeme of many languages? Or none at all?) -- so coming 
> > to
> > a workable solution about the meaning of "lexeme" and relations between
> > labels and lexemes, and their possible other properties should be worth our
> > while.
> 
> In that context - Purodha, what's your take on the Wiktionary proposal
> ? I'm curious what you 
> think
> of it. We briefly talked about this kind of model in Amsterdam last year - I
> hope the proposal is what you hoped for, at least roughly :)

I read it and I am thinking it over :-)
It's sufficiently general to be useful, but there are points that need further
refinement, or modifications.

I shall write some comments in a while.

Purodha

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Making Wikidata entries at the time of 'Article for Creation' publication

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
In my opinion the notability rules for Wikidata need to change. I have
created an RFC to reflect this [1].
Thanks,
 GerardM

[1]
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Notability_%26_early_creation_of_Wikidata_items


On 11 March 2014 12:36, Joe Filceolaire  wrote:

> I agree that it makes sense that one of the first things to do when
> creating a new wikipedia article should be to create an infobox which is
> automagically linked to the creation of a wikidata item. There are a number
> of considerations related to this.
>
> 1. Notability. The current rules for Wikidata means that it is not
> acceptable to create a wikidata item until after the Wikipedia article has
> been created.
>
> 2. Drafts. English Wikipedia has recently enabled a Draft name space for
> people to use to develop new articles. Articles in the Draft namespace are
> not indexed by Google and are not required to meet notability standards
> until they are transferred to the Main namespace. Should we change the
> rules on wikidata so Draft articles can be sitelinked and have wikidata
> items?
>
> 3. Visual Editor. The visual editor already has some template editing
> functionality but it does not link to a wikidata item. To get Wikipedia
> editors editing wikidata we need an infobox creation wizard which will mean
> wikipedia editors can edit wikidata from inside wikipedia and it feels like
> they are editing an info box. Personally I think the first step should be
> to enable the wikibase client on wikidata so we can start developing these
> internationalised and localised infoboxes on wikidata which can then be
> redeployed to other WMF wikis.
>
> Yours
>
> Joe
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 11:28 PM, Lydia Pintscher <
> lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Andy Mabbett 
>> wrote:
>> > On 10 March 2014 07:41, Lydia Pintscher 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I agree with what Gerard wrote.
>> >
>> > Then please see my response to him.
>> >
>> >> We should be moving away from a world
>> >> where information is entered on Wikipedia and then in addition on
>> >> Wikidata. We need to move to a world where information is added in
>> >> Wikidata and then used on Wikipedia.
>> >
>> > I'd love to know how you think that will happen, in a timely manner,
>> > for the kinds of people who use AfC,
>>
>> Where do you see the biggest obstacles right now in the process? Maybe
>> we can identify those and then see if we can find solutions for them?
>> I'm not saying what you're seeing isn't a problem we need to fix. I
>> just think we need to solve it in a better way. Let's find it.
>>
>> >> Otherwise the whole idea ofther t
>> >> Wikidata is kinda moot. It will not happen tomorrow and need more work
>> >> but this is where we should be going and I'd rather we didn't take
>> >> steps that drag this process out even longer.
>> >
>> > Meanwhile, articles are being created, daily, via AfC with no Wikidata
>> > equivalent, or where someone has to create the equivalent manually,
>> > cutting-and-pasting or retyping text, rather than having tools do the
>> > work for them. That's crazy.
>>
>> Sure. That is clearly not a great situation and we should see if we
>> can improve it. What I'm saying is that we should not improve it by
>> making people enter even more information in Wikipedia and then copy
>> it over to Wikipedia while our long-term goal is exactly the opposite.
>> Because this will only bite us down the road. Let's identify the
>> specific issues and see if we can find other solutions for them.
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Lydia
>>
>> --
>> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
>> Product Manager for Wikidata
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
>> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24
>> 10963 Berlin
>> www.wikimedia.de
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>>
>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
>> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
>> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Making Wikidata entries at the time of 'Article for Creation' publication

[Andy Mabbett]

On 10 March 2014 23:28, Lydia Pintscher  wrote:

>> I'd love to know how you think that will happen, in a timely manner,
>> for the kinds of people who use AfC,
>
> Where do you see the biggest obstacles right now in the process? Maybe
> we can identify those and then see if we can find solutions for them?
> I'm not saying what you're seeing isn't a problem we need to fix. I
> just think we need to solve it in a better way. Let's find it.

The long answer to your question is for you to spend some time looking
through, reviewing, and where appropriate publishing, the articles
(especially biographies) submitted at AfC (on en.WP, though de.WP and
others presumably have an equivalent?). The short asnwer is that we're
talking about people who are using Wikipedia for the first time, and
struggling, often requiring several iterations, to understand
templates, referencing and other things which you and I take for
granted.

>> Meanwhile, articles are being created, daily, via AfC with no Wikidata
>> equivalent, or where someone has to create the equivalent manually,
>> cutting-and-pasting or retyping text, rather than having tools do the
>> work for them. That's crazy.
>
> Sure. That is clearly not a great situation and we should see if we
> can improve it. What I'm saying is that we should not improve it by
> making people enter even more information in Wikipedia and then copy
> it over to Wikipedia

[ITYM "copy it over to Wikidata"]

I'm not sugegsting that we "make people enter even more information in
Wikipedia"; I'm suggesting that wikidata would benefit from capturing
the data that is /already/ being entered into Wikipedia, not least via
AfC, by the people I describe above; and that I and others who review
and publish those articles would benefit from tool to save us the
manual task of having to retype (into Wikidata) what we're already
asked to type once (into the AfC tool) as part of that process.

> Let's identify the
> specific issues and see if we can find other solutions for them.

I'm pretty sure I already identified the specific issue here.

-- 
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@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikidata-l] New introductory article on Wikidata

[Jane Darnell]

Yes, it's great to have this out there to link to! I found it really helpful

2014-03-12 9:47 GMT+01:00, Gerard Meijssen :
> Hoi,
> If you have not done so, it is well worth a read. It has details that I
> have seen for the first time.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
>
> On 11 March 2014 18:42, Markus Krötzsch
> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Denny and I are happy to report that our first general overview article
>> on
>> Wikidata has now been accepted for publication at Communications of the
>> ACM. \o/ The article has not appeared yet, but we have published our
>> accepted manuscript [1]. The final article should be published with Open
>> Access, and thus be available at the official CACM website without
>> subscription, but this may still take a bit of time (and some
>> copyediting).
>>
>> We hope that this will help to introduce many more people to the project.
>> It was written with a very wide audience in mind. All statistics in the
>> article are quite recent (based on the dumps + daily dumps up to Feb 20
>> 2014), but we will try to update them once more before publication (if at
>> all possible).
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Markus
>>
>> [1]
>> "Wikidata: A Free Collaborative Knowledge Base"
>> http://korrekt.org/page/Wikidata
>>
>> ___
>> Wikidata-l mailing list
>> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>>
>

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Making Wikidata entries at the time of 'Article for Creation' publication

[Jane Darnell]

Hi Andy,
You hit the nail on the head! I have been cataloguing the artists of
the Netherlands since 2009 and have created tons of stubs on Wikipedia
that now all need to become items on Wikidata. Most of them became
items in the "Great Item-creation party" of the first few months after
WD's birth, especially since a lot of them were already in the
Hungarian Wikipedia that got converted first. It is a source of
annoyance to me that I can't discover any way to automate the
population of the English labels on Wikidata though, so I have been
somewhat lazily filling these in as I bump into them.

I have decided that the easiest way to "pin" a painter bio in the
Wikiverse that does not exist yet on the English Wikipedia, is to
simply go ahead and create the stub on the English Wikipedia. This
makes your 15 minutes of legwork into a half-hour of legwork, but it
makes it much easier down the line to mesh in with WD, especially
because searching WD for names of people who died more than 100 years
ago brings its own international spelling challenges.

Though I totally agree with Lydia that in the ideal world you could
create the item first on WD to use for stub-creation later, we are
still a long way from that situation. I feel strongly that there could
be a good case for an "article creation wizard" that runs off of WD,
pre-populating things like info-boxes, categories, defaultsort, and
lead sentence.

my 2c,
Jane



2014-03-12 14:52 GMT+01:00, Andy Mabbett :
> On 10 March 2014 23:28, Lydia Pintscher 
> wrote:
>
>>> I'd love to know how you think that will happen, in a timely manner,
>>> for the kinds of people who use AfC,
>>
>> Where do you see the biggest obstacles right now in the process? Maybe
>> we can identify those and then see if we can find solutions for them?
>> I'm not saying what you're seeing isn't a problem we need to fix. I
>> just think we need to solve it in a better way. Let's find it.
>
> The long answer to your question is for you to spend some time looking
> through, reviewing, and where appropriate publishing, the articles
> (especially biographies) submitted at AfC (on en.WP, though de.WP and
> others presumably have an equivalent?). The short asnwer is that we're
> talking about people who are using Wikipedia for the first time, and
> struggling, often requiring several iterations, to understand
> templates, referencing and other things which you and I take for
> granted.
>
>>> Meanwhile, articles are being created, daily, via AfC with no Wikidata
>>> equivalent, or where someone has to create the equivalent manually,
>>> cutting-and-pasting or retyping text, rather than having tools do the
>>> work for them. That's crazy.
>>
>> Sure. That is clearly not a great situation and we should see if we
>> can improve it. What I'm saying is that we should not improve it by
>> making people enter even more information in Wikipedia and then copy
>> it over to Wikipedia
>
> [ITYM "copy it over to Wikidata"]
>
> I'm not sugegsting that we "make people enter even more information in
> Wikipedia"; I'm suggesting that wikidata would benefit from capturing
> the data that is /already/ being entered into Wikipedia, not least via
> AfC, by the people I describe above; and that I and others who review
> and publish those articles would benefit from tool to save us the
> manual task of having to retype (into Wikidata) what we're already
> asked to type once (into the AfC tool) as part of that process.
>
>> Let's identify the
>> specific issues and see if we can find other solutions for them.
>
> I'm pretty sure I already identified the specific issue here.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Making Wikidata entries at the time of 'Article for Creation' publication

[David Cuenca]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote:

> I'm not sugegsting that we "make people enter even more information in
> Wikipedia"; I'm suggesting that wikidata would benefit from capturing
> the data that is /already/ being entered into Wikipedia, not least via
> AfC, by the people I describe above; and that I and others who review
> and publish those articles would benefit from tool to save us the
> manual task of having to retype (into Wikidata) what we're already
> asked to type once (into the AfC tool) as part of that process.


We cannot get there yet, since we depend on many features still in
development:
1.- Simple data editing from VisualEditor
2.- Easy way to map wikipedia template fields to wikidata properties
3.- Migration of main infobox templates to make use of Wikidata

There are many needed features still not done, plus some more, which take a
long time to discuss, implement, and test. Of course when all that is
available then you should be able to have an infobox selection wizard
(possibly based on this structure [1]), and then by editing the fields on
VisualEditor the data would be automatically filled on Wikidata.

As said, it sounds easy, but this has many prerequisites that are still not
met.

My only advice: patience :-)

And if you want meanwhile you can help with the infobox mappings:
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Infobox_mappings

Cheers,
Micru

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_infoboxes
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Making Wikidata entries at the time of 'Article for Creation' publication

[Andy Mabbett]

On 12 March 2014 15:00, David Cuenca  wrote:
>> I'm not sugegsting that we "make people enter even more information in
>> Wikipedia"; I'm suggesting that wikidata would benefit from capturing
>> the data that is /already/ being entered into Wikipedia, not least via
>> AfC, by the people I describe above; and that I and others who review
>> and publish those articles would benefit from tool to save us the
>> manual task of having to retype (into Wikidata) what we're already
>> asked to type once (into the AfC tool) as part of that process.
>
>
> We cannot get there yet, since we depend on many features still in
> development:
> 1.- Simple data editing from VisualEditor
> 2.- Easy way to map wikipedia template fields to wikidata properties
> 3.- Migration of main infobox templates to make use of Wikidata

What does this have to do with AfC?

Indeed, nowhere in your post do you mention AfC, once.

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@pigsonthewing
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Making Wikidata entries at the time of 'Article for Creation' publication

[Dimitris Kontokostas]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 5:00 PM, David Cuenca  wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sugegsting that we "make people enter even more information in
>> Wikipedia"; I'm suggesting that wikidata would benefit from capturing
>> the data that is /already/ being entered into Wikipedia, not least via
>> AfC, by the people I describe above; and that I and others who review
>> and publish those articles would benefit from tool to save us the
>> manual task of having to retype (into Wikidata) what we're already
>> asked to type once (into the AfC tool) as part of that process.
>
>
> We cannot get there yet, since we depend on many features still in
> development:
> 1.- Simple data editing from VisualEditor
> 2.- Easy way to map wikipedia template fields to wikidata properties
>

Actually there is a lot of work done in this regard.
We map Wikipedia templates to the DBpedia ontology [1] and already started
marking equivalent properties to Wikidata (see [2] [3])

Best,
Dimitris

[1] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/Main_Page
[2] http://mappings.dbpedia.org/index.php/OntologyProperty:Family
[3]
https://github.com/dbpedia/extraction-framework/wiki/GSOC2013_Progress_Hady-Elsahar


> 3.- Migration of main infobox templates to make use of Wikidata
>
> There are many needed features still not done, plus some more, which take
> a long time to discuss, implement, and test. Of course when all that is
> available then you should be able to have an infobox selection wizard
> (possibly based on this structure [1]), and then by editing the fields on
> VisualEditor the data would be automatically filled on Wikidata.
>
> As said, it sounds easy, but this has many prerequisites that are still
> not met.
>
> My only advice: patience :-)
>
> And if you want meanwhile you can help with the infobox mappings:
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Infobox_mappings
>
> Cheers,
> Micru
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_infoboxes
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Making Wikidata entries at the time of 'Article for Creation' publication

[David Cuenca]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote:

> What does this have to do with AfC?
>
> Indeed, nowhere in your post do you mention AfC, once.
>

Because there is no difference between creating an article through
enwiki-AfC or creating an article on any of the other 270+ language
editions of WP. The general requirements are a simple interface and a
streamlined workflow. If later you want to re-package it as "AfC" or
anything else it is up to you, it doesn't affect the real problematic.

On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Dimitris Kontokostas wrote:

> Actually there is a lot of work done in this regard.
> We map Wikipedia templates to the DBpedia ontology [1] and already started
> marking equivalent properties to Wikidata (see [2] [3])
>

Dimitris, I meant integrating the mapping info into the WP template data
itself. Anyhow, thanks for the lead, maybe you could post it on the
"Wikidata:Infobox_mappings" page too? It might simplify their work.

Thanks,
Micru
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Making Wikidata entries at the time of 'Article for Creation' publication

[Andy Mabbett]

On 12 March 2014 20:38, David Cuenca  wrote:
>> Indeed, nowhere in your post do you mention AfC, once.
>
>
> Because there is no difference between creating an article through
> enwiki-AfC or creating an article on any of the other 270+ language editions
> of WP.

Yes, there is (unless you're referring to AfC on all those Wikiepdias.)

How many biographies have you published using AfC on en.WP?


-- 
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@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Making Wikidata entries at the time of 'Article for Creation' publication

[David Cuenca]

On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote:

> Yes, there is (unless you're referring to AfC on all those Wikiepdias.)
>

I read about the AfC process and the technical requirements are the same,
just the packaging changes (input forms and step-by-step info request).
Yes, you could place the data on article creation on the Wikidata item, but
still it would be unconnected to the wp page. If later on you would edit
the data either on wp or on wd, that wouldn't have any effect on each other
unless you adapt the infobox template for that. And even if you moved the
template to Lua to fetch the data from wd, then you wouldn't be able to
edit that data easily from WP.

Please, don't get me wrong, AfC is a good tool for new users, and it should
become something global and connected with Wikidata, but the effort of
doing it now wouldn't bring that many benefits, and it would probably have
to change when the system gets more mature. Still, if you or somebody else
thinks different and wants to do it, why not?


> How many biographies have you published using AfC on en.WP?


En.wp is not my main wp but I'll give it a shot :)

Thanks,
Micru
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