Re: [Wikimedia-l] October 12: Strategy update - Movement direction now posted for your endorsement consideration (#26)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Sandra,

Thank you for your mail. For me, this is not specifically about Guillaume.
I referred to him as he has answered to me about "oral traditions",
supporting them.

I know that the way to this text was a long one; I have read papers on this
way and was appalled. Now I find it difficult not to believe that this is a
slippery slope.

Kind regards,
Ziko






2017-10-21 18:14 GMT+02:00 Sandra Rientjes - Wikimedia Nederland <
rient...@wikimedia.nl>:

> Hi Ziko,
>
> Just a quick reaction to the last sentence of your message where you
> express your concern about oral traditions as a source and say 'Guillaume
> emphasized that he still wants to go this way.'
>
> To some, this could give the impression that Guillaume is responsible for
> what went in the text and what did not.  As Katherine mentioned in her
> message, drafting the strategic direction was a group process. (FYI, I was
> part of that group)  Guillaume had the unenviable task of making sense of
> all the suggestions, input and comments, and produce meaningful and
> readable text.  Frankly, I don't know anyone who could have done that job
> better. So, it is not so much that 'Guillaume still wants to go this way',
> but rather 'the drafting group believes the movement-wide consultation
> points this way.'
>
> I understand your concerns - and I know that they come from your deep
> commitment to the quality and the reliability of the Wikimedia projects.
> Your comments have already started some interesting discussions - on this
> list and in other places - about how oral traditions/sources could and
> should be used in a responsible way.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Sandra Rientjes
> Directeur/Executive Director Wikimedia Nederland
>
>
>
> 2017-10-21 14:20 GMT+02:00 Ziko van Dijk :
>
> > Hello Nicole,
> >
> > Thank you. I just wonder - if the rest is presented this way, people
> might
> > think that it belongs to the direction, and what the relationship between
> > both is. And I'm afraid, that later the Foundation will claim that the
> rest
> > is important or an important (authoritative) interpretation that will
> > influence the following discussions. There will be confusion what exactly
> > is endorsed an can be used (abused) in those following discussions.
> >
> > For example, I am very concerned that the "oral traditions" are still in
> > the game, especially as Guillaume emphasized that he still wants to go
> this
> > way.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2017-10-21 1:52 GMT+02:00 Nicole Ebber :
> >
> > > Hi Ziko,
> > >
> > > Quick response regarding the endorsement: We will ask people to only
> > > endorse the strategic direction in the green box and the short section
> > > underneath with the next steps.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Nicole
> > >
> > > On 21 October 2017 at 01:02, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
> > >
> > > > 2017-10-20 23:10 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I am optimistic that this strategic direction provides every
> > individual
> > > > and
> > > > > entity within the Wikimedia movement something to be excited about.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello, it is not about what I might be excited about - I wonder in
> > which
> > > > ways the document will be used in a way I find problematic for the
> > > > community.
> > > >
> > > > I am still curious about the links in the "See also" section:
> > > >
> > > >- Appendix
> > > > > > > movement/2017/Direction/Appendix>:
> > > >More information about the process, research, and findings that
> led
> > to
> > > > this
> > > >outcome.
> > > >- A report of findings
> > > > > > > movement/2017/Findings>
> > > >is being written and many references on this page will be updated
> to
> > > > point
> > > >to its content.
> > > >
> > > > Are those (and the footnotes) part of the "direction" document? Will
> > > people
> > > > who endorse the document also endorse them?
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > >
> > > > Ziko
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Beginning on October 26, we will be asking for individual
> > contributors
> > > > and
> > > > > organized groups to endorse this new strategic direction for our
> > > > movement.
> > > > > I encourage you to spend the intervening days discussing this
> > direction
> > > > and
> > > > > determining if you and/or your group will be endorsing it. You will
> > > find
> > > > > more information about the endorsement day and the process on the
> > > > > direction’s meta page next week.
> > > > >
> > > > > The endorsement concludes phase 1 of the process, and we are
> > currently
> > > > > drafting the next steps of the process. The main goal of phase 2
> will
> > > be
> > > > to
> > > > > answer the question "How do we implement the strategic direction",
> > > which
> > > > > means identifying 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] October 12: Strategy update - Movement direction now posted for your endorsement consideration (#26)

[Sandra Rientjes - Wikimedia Nederland]

Hi Ziko,

Just a quick reaction to the last sentence of your message where you
express your concern about oral traditions as a source and say 'Guillaume
emphasized that he still wants to go this way.'

To some, this could give the impression that Guillaume is responsible for
what went in the text and what did not.  As Katherine mentioned in her
message, drafting the strategic direction was a group process. (FYI, I was
part of that group)  Guillaume had the unenviable task of making sense of
all the suggestions, input and comments, and produce meaningful and
readable text.  Frankly, I don't know anyone who could have done that job
better. So, it is not so much that 'Guillaume still wants to go this way',
but rather 'the drafting group believes the movement-wide consultation
points this way.'

I understand your concerns - and I know that they come from your deep
commitment to the quality and the reliability of the Wikimedia projects.
Your comments have already started some interesting discussions - on this
list and in other places - about how oral traditions/sources could and
should be used in a responsible way.

Best regards,


Sandra Rientjes
Directeur/Executive Director Wikimedia Nederland



2017-10-21 14:20 GMT+02:00 Ziko van Dijk :

> Hello Nicole,
>
> Thank you. I just wonder - if the rest is presented this way, people might
> think that it belongs to the direction, and what the relationship between
> both is. And I'm afraid, that later the Foundation will claim that the rest
> is important or an important (authoritative) interpretation that will
> influence the following discussions. There will be confusion what exactly
> is endorsed an can be used (abused) in those following discussions.
>
> For example, I am very concerned that the "oral traditions" are still in
> the game, especially as Guillaume emphasized that he still wants to go this
> way.
>
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
>
>
>
> 2017-10-21 1:52 GMT+02:00 Nicole Ebber :
>
> > Hi Ziko,
> >
> > Quick response regarding the endorsement: We will ask people to only
> > endorse the strategic direction in the green box and the short section
> > underneath with the next steps.
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Nicole
> >
> > On 21 October 2017 at 01:02, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
> >
> > > 2017-10-20 23:10 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I am optimistic that this strategic direction provides every
> individual
> > > and
> > > > entity within the Wikimedia movement something to be excited about.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hello, it is not about what I might be excited about - I wonder in
> which
> > > ways the document will be used in a way I find problematic for the
> > > community.
> > >
> > > I am still curious about the links in the "See also" section:
> > >
> > >- Appendix
> > > > > movement/2017/Direction/Appendix>:
> > >More information about the process, research, and findings that led
> to
> > > this
> > >outcome.
> > >- A report of findings
> > > > > movement/2017/Findings>
> > >is being written and many references on this page will be updated to
> > > point
> > >to its content.
> > >
> > > Are those (and the footnotes) part of the "direction" document? Will
> > people
> > > who endorse the document also endorse them?
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Ziko
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Beginning on October 26, we will be asking for individual
> contributors
> > > and
> > > > organized groups to endorse this new strategic direction for our
> > > movement.
> > > > I encourage you to spend the intervening days discussing this
> direction
> > > and
> > > > determining if you and/or your group will be endorsing it. You will
> > find
> > > > more information about the endorsement day and the process on the
> > > > direction’s meta page next week.
> > > >
> > > > The endorsement concludes phase 1 of the process, and we are
> currently
> > > > drafting the next steps of the process. The main goal of phase 2 will
> > be
> > > to
> > > > answer the question "How do we implement the strategic direction",
> > which
> > > > means identifying the resources needed for execution, and the
> > activities
> > > it
> > > > involves. A first rough overview of this phase is being developed on
> > > Meta.
> > > > Take a look! [2]
> > > >
> > > > On a different note, we have completed the move into our new office
> > space
> > > > at One Montgomery Tower![3] Once again, thank you to everyone on
> staff
> > > who
> > > > was involved in making the move so seamless, and to all of you for
> your
> > > > patience over the past couple of weeks. Later this month, once we are
> > > more
> > > > settled in, we will be sharing photos and information about our new
> > space
> > > > on the Wikimedia Blog.
> > > >
> > > > Stay tuned!
> > > >
> > > > መልካም ቀን። (Amharic translation: “H

Re: [Wikimedia-l] October 12: Strategy update - Movement direction now posted for your endorsement consideration (#26)

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello Nicole,

Thank you. I just wonder - if the rest is presented this way, people might
think that it belongs to the direction, and what the relationship between
both is. And I'm afraid, that later the Foundation will claim that the rest
is important or an important (authoritative) interpretation that will
influence the following discussions. There will be confusion what exactly
is endorsed an can be used (abused) in those following discussions.

For example, I am very concerned that the "oral traditions" are still in
the game, especially as Guillaume emphasized that he still wants to go this
way.

Kind regards
Ziko




2017-10-21 1:52 GMT+02:00 Nicole Ebber :

> Hi Ziko,
>
> Quick response regarding the endorsement: We will ask people to only
> endorse the strategic direction in the green box and the short section
> underneath with the next steps.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Best regards,
> Nicole
>
> On 21 October 2017 at 01:02, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>
> > 2017-10-20 23:10 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :
> >
> > >
> > > I am optimistic that this strategic direction provides every individual
> > and
> > > entity within the Wikimedia movement something to be excited about.
> > >
> >
> > Hello, it is not about what I might be excited about - I wonder in which
> > ways the document will be used in a way I find problematic for the
> > community.
> >
> > I am still curious about the links in the "See also" section:
> >
> >- Appendix
> > > movement/2017/Direction/Appendix>:
> >More information about the process, research, and findings that led to
> > this
> >outcome.
> >- A report of findings
> > > movement/2017/Findings>
> >is being written and many references on this page will be updated to
> > point
> >to its content.
> >
> > Are those (and the footnotes) part of the "direction" document? Will
> people
> > who endorse the document also endorse them?
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Beginning on October 26, we will be asking for individual contributors
> > and
> > > organized groups to endorse this new strategic direction for our
> > movement.
> > > I encourage you to spend the intervening days discussing this direction
> > and
> > > determining if you and/or your group will be endorsing it. You will
> find
> > > more information about the endorsement day and the process on the
> > > direction’s meta page next week.
> > >
> > > The endorsement concludes phase 1 of the process, and we are currently
> > > drafting the next steps of the process. The main goal of phase 2 will
> be
> > to
> > > answer the question "How do we implement the strategic direction",
> which
> > > means identifying the resources needed for execution, and the
> activities
> > it
> > > involves. A first rough overview of this phase is being developed on
> > Meta.
> > > Take a look! [2]
> > >
> > > On a different note, we have completed the move into our new office
> space
> > > at One Montgomery Tower![3] Once again, thank you to everyone on staff
> > who
> > > was involved in making the move so seamless, and to all of you for your
> > > patience over the past couple of weeks. Later this month, once we are
> > more
> > > settled in, we will be sharing photos and information about our new
> space
> > > on the Wikimedia Blog.
> > >
> > > Stay tuned!
> > >
> > > መልካም ቀን። (Amharic translation: “Have a nice day”),
> > >
> > > Katherine
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > movement/2017/People/Drafting_Group
> > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_2030/Process_planning
> > > [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_headquarters
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
>
> --
> Nicole Ebber
> Adviser International Relations
> Movement Strategy Track Lead: Organized Groups
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> Körperschaf

Re: [Wikimedia-l] October 12: Strategy update - Movement direction now posted for your endorsement consideration (#26)

[Nicole Ebber]

Hi Ziko,

Quick response regarding the endorsement: We will ask people to only
endorse the strategic direction in the green box and the short section
underneath with the next steps.

Hope that helps.

Best regards,
Nicole

On 21 October 2017 at 01:02, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:

> 2017-10-20 23:10 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :
>
> >
> > I am optimistic that this strategic direction provides every individual
> and
> > entity within the Wikimedia movement something to be excited about.
> >
>
> Hello, it is not about what I might be excited about - I wonder in which
> ways the document will be used in a way I find problematic for the
> community.
>
> I am still curious about the links in the "See also" section:
>
>- Appendix
> movement/2017/Direction/Appendix>:
>More information about the process, research, and findings that led to
> this
>outcome.
>- A report of findings
> movement/2017/Findings>
>is being written and many references on this page will be updated to
> point
>to its content.
>
> Are those (and the footnotes) part of the "direction" document? Will people
> who endorse the document also endorse them?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Ziko
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Beginning on October 26, we will be asking for individual contributors
> and
> > organized groups to endorse this new strategic direction for our
> movement.
> > I encourage you to spend the intervening days discussing this direction
> and
> > determining if you and/or your group will be endorsing it. You will find
> > more information about the endorsement day and the process on the
> > direction’s meta page next week.
> >
> > The endorsement concludes phase 1 of the process, and we are currently
> > drafting the next steps of the process. The main goal of phase 2 will be
> to
> > answer the question "How do we implement the strategic direction", which
> > means identifying the resources needed for execution, and the activities
> it
> > involves. A first rough overview of this phase is being developed on
> Meta.
> > Take a look! [2]
> >
> > On a different note, we have completed the move into our new office space
> > at One Montgomery Tower![3] Once again, thank you to everyone on staff
> who
> > was involved in making the move so seamless, and to all of you for your
> > patience over the past couple of weeks. Later this month, once we are
> more
> > settled in, we will be sharing photos and information about our new space
> > on the Wikimedia Blog.
> >
> > Stay tuned!
> >
> > መልካም ቀን። (Amharic translation: “Have a nice day”),
> >
> > Katherine
> >
> > [1]
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/People/Drafting_Group
> > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_2030/Process_planning
> > [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_headquarters
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 




-- 
Nicole Ebber
Adviser International Relations
Movement Strategy Track Lead: Organized Groups

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] October 12: Strategy update - Movement direction now posted for your endorsement consideration (#26)

[Ziko van Dijk]

2017-10-20 23:10 GMT+02:00 Katherine Maher :

>
> I am optimistic that this strategic direction provides every individual and
> entity within the Wikimedia movement something to be excited about.
>

Hello, it is not about what I might be excited about - I wonder in which
ways the document will be used in a way I find problematic for the
community.

I am still curious about the links in the "See also" section:

   - Appendix
   
:
   More information about the process, research, and findings that led to this
   outcome.
   - A report of findings
   
   is being written and many references on this page will be updated to point
   to its content.

Are those (and the footnotes) part of the "direction" document? Will people
who endorse the document also endorse them?

Kind regards,

Ziko










> Beginning on October 26, we will be asking for individual contributors and
> organized groups to endorse this new strategic direction for our movement.
> I encourage you to spend the intervening days discussing this direction and
> determining if you and/or your group will be endorsing it. You will find
> more information about the endorsement day and the process on the
> direction’s meta page next week.
>
> The endorsement concludes phase 1 of the process, and we are currently
> drafting the next steps of the process. The main goal of phase 2 will be to
> answer the question "How do we implement the strategic direction", which
> means identifying the resources needed for execution, and the activities it
> involves. A first rough overview of this phase is being developed on Meta.
> Take a look! [2]
>
> On a different note, we have completed the move into our new office space
> at One Montgomery Tower![3] Once again, thank you to everyone on staff who
> was involved in making the move so seamless, and to all of you for your
> patience over the past couple of weeks. Later this month, once we are more
> settled in, we will be sharing photos and information about our new space
> on the Wikimedia Blog.
>
> Stay tuned!
>
> መልካም ቀን። (Amharic translation: “Have a nice day”),
>
> Katherine
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/People/Drafting_Group
> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_2030/Process_planning
> [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_headquarters
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
___
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[Wikimedia-l] October 12: Strategy update - Movement direction now posted for your endorsement consideration (#26)

[Katherine Maher]

Hi all,

I’m delighted to share that a final version of the Wikimedia movement's new
strategic direction has been posted on Meta-Wiki:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/?curid=10422143

The drafting group[1] bravely spent several weeks reading, considering, and
(when possible) responding to the comments posted about the previous
drafts. Attempting to capture and synthesize the aspirations and opinions
of a global movement based on hundreds of offline and online conversations
is no easy task. Please join me in thanking them not only for taking on
this formidable process, but for helping develop something I believe we can
all be proud of.

I am optimistic that this strategic direction provides every individual and
entity within the Wikimedia movement something to be excited about.
Beginning on October 26, we will be asking for individual contributors and
organized groups to endorse this new strategic direction for our movement.
I encourage you to spend the intervening days discussing this direction and
determining if you and/or your group will be endorsing it. You will find
more information about the endorsement day and the process on the
direction’s meta page next week.

The endorsement concludes phase 1 of the process, and we are currently
drafting the next steps of the process. The main goal of phase 2 will be to
answer the question "How do we implement the strategic direction", which
means identifying the resources needed for execution, and the activities it
involves. A first rough overview of this phase is being developed on Meta.
Take a look! [2]

On a different note, we have completed the move into our new office space
at One Montgomery Tower![3] Once again, thank you to everyone on staff who
was involved in making the move so seamless, and to all of you for your
patience over the past couple of weeks. Later this month, once we are more
settled in, we will be sharing photos and information about our new space
on the Wikimedia Blog.

Stay tuned!

መልካም ቀን። (Amharic translation: “Have a nice day”),

Katherine

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/People/Drafting_Group
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_2030/Process_planning
[3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_headquarters
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