Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-16 Thread Steven Walling 
On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 5:01 AM, Andrew Gray wrote:

> This is a really interesting idea - not just for VE but for other
> new-user tools as well.
>
> CCing to Steven, who's been doing some work with the signup interface
> - is this sort of hook technically practical?
>
> Andrew.
>

Yes, technically speaking it is probably not difficult to set VisualEditor
opt-in on the basis of a URL parameter. How/if we should implement it that
way, I leave up to James and the VE team.

To be honest, if we think VE is more advantageous for new editors, we
should be delivering by default for all of them, not selectively. The
design team has been working on concepts for a design where the switch
between wikitext and visual editing is done after hitting Edit, allowing us
to consolidate the current confusing situation with two buttons. This is
probably the most elegant solution. It makes room for individual users
potentially setting their default edit mode to one or the other, reduces
extra button clutter, etc.


-- 
Steven Walling,
Product Manager
https://wikimediafoundation.org/
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-16 Thread Andrew Gray 
This is a really interesting idea - not just for VE but for other
new-user tools as well.

CCing to Steven, who's been doing some work with the signup interface
- is this sort of hook technically practical?

Andrew.

On 15 October 2013 13:11, Jan Ainali  wrote:
> From Charles original questions I guess that he would be satisified with
> something like:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&enablevisualeditor=1
>
>
> which should enable the Visual Editor for users signing up through that
> link. If it is possible or not to do that I have no idea.
>
> *Med vänliga hälsningar,
> Jan Ainali*
>
> Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige 
> 0729 - 67 29 48
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/10/15 Craig Franklin 
>
>> Hear hear.
>>
>> I know this is a battle that the Foundation's engineers can't possibly win,
>> given the circumstances which VE was moved from opt-out to opt-in on enwiki
>> (see
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=prev&oldid=574251354
>> ,
>> for those who aren't aware).  Turn it on, turn it off; either way someone
>> gets upset.
>>
>> From a pure technical standpoint, is it possible to put a checkbox on the
>> new user page or something so that new users can turn it on without having
>> to delve deep into the untamed wilderness that is the user preferences
>> page?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> On 15 October 2013 21:54, Richard Nevell > >wrote:
>>
>> > I firmly agree with that, taking a detour to preferences when training
>> new
>> > editors isn't my preferred method.
>> >
>> > Richard
>> >
>> >
>> > On 15 October 2013 12:47, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hello,
>> > >
>> > > I think that for beginners things must be as simple and clear as
>> > > possible. Make them manipulate the preferences at the beginning of the
>> > > session is already complicated and a waste of time. Don't forget that
>> > > beginners already have to learn so many things quickly, so the more
>> > > you can reduce, the better.
>> > > Actually I'd prefer to have a model wiki that looks like Wikipedia but
>> > > is best suited to use in trainings.
>> > >
>> > > Kind regards
>> > > Ziko
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 
>> > > Dr. Ziko van Dijk
>> > > voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
>> > >
>> > > Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
>> > > Postbus 167
>> > > 3500 AD Utrecht
>> > > http://wikimedia.nl
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2013/10/15 Charles Andrès :
>> > > > Thanks, but in FR.Wikipedia.org you only have the opt-out option
>> > > (disable visual editor) :-(
>> > > >
>> > > > Charles
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ___
>> > > > I use this email for mailing list only.
>> > > >
>> > > > Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
>> > > > "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
>> > > > www.wikimedia.ch
>> > > > Skype: charles.andres.wmch
>> > > > IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
>> > > >
>> > > > Le 15 oct. 2013 à 10:10, Enock Seth Nyamador  a
>> > > écrit :
>> > > >
>> > > >> Hello Charles,
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I don't think there is a way to for this in the registration
>> process.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> To enable or disable Visual Editor. Login
>> > > >>
>> > > >> 1. Go to ---> Preferences --> Click Editing tab.
>> > > >> 2. At the bottom of Editing page, Check or uncheck the box beside
>> > > Enable VisualEditor (only in the main and user namespaces)
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> OR
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Follow this link
>> > >
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing
>> > > >> Then repeat step 2 above.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Hope it helps.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Thanks.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Regards,
>> > > >> Enock S. Nyamador.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> ---
>> > > >> Writer | Wikimedian
>> > > >> Planning Wikimedia Ghana | About.me | Blog
>> > > >> C: +233 (0)27 565 7589
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Charles Andres <
>> > > charles.andres.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >> Dear all,
>> > > >>
>> > > >> In our new education program with youngs in scholar difficulties, we
>> > > have the problem that only half of the new accounts have the visual
>> > editor
>> > > activated, it's quite annoying to have two teach two way of editing.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Is there a trick to force the activation of Visual Editor for a
>> > > specific user?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Thanks
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Charles
>> > > >>
>> > > >> ___
>> > > >> Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
>> > > >> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
>> > > >> www.wikimedia.ch
>> > > >> Skype: charles.andres.wmch
>> > > >> IRC:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-16 Thread Risker 
On 16 October 2013 07:31, David Gerard  wrote:

> On 16 October 2013 06:08, Srikanth Ramakrishnan 
> wrote:
>
> > Chris, as Ziko put it. Would you like a novice driver with a Learner's
> > permit to drive on a Crowded street or a High speed expressway or in a
> > deserted ground?
> > Visual Editor for newbies has caused a lot of pages to 'break' as I have
> > noticed.
>
>
> YMMV. For simple stuff it's actually great and has been wonderful for
> casual editors I've asked to try it. The problems really come on
> complicated pages.
>
> If they're creating completely fresh articles, I don't anticipate huge
> problems.
>
> If problems do happen, the VisualEditor tag is monitored closely
> enough they'll be picked up as bugs.
>
>
I think the problem when VE is turned on as default production editor on a
busy project is that it is close to impossible for the small number of
users who routinely monitor recent changes (or those who are monitoring VE)
to catch all of the problems.  Instead of just reviewing an individual
edit, we have learned that edits often had effects further down in pages,
or those that didn't really show up properly in the diff window, which
meant having to look at the entire page before determining whether there
was a problem.  As I recall, certain common errors that happened in July
were still being identified and fixed as late as mid-September on enwiki,
and we have a pretty active Recent Changes patrol and a fair number of
people monitoring VE edits.  With the much reduced load now, it is much
easier to spot these problems.

Risker
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-16 Thread Risker 
On 16 October 2013 07:26, Samuel Klein  wrote:

> This would be a wonderful general feature, for setting a collection of
> preferences on signup.
>
> SJ
>
>
In theory, I agree. Realistically, most new editors don't know the
difference between A and B, or how it will affect their editing, so I don't
know that it is really all that helpful.

Risker
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-16 Thread David Gerard 
On 16 October 2013 06:08, Srikanth Ramakrishnan  wrote:

> Chris, as Ziko put it. Would you like a novice driver with a Learner's
> permit to drive on a Crowded street or a High speed expressway or in a
> deserted ground?
> Visual Editor for newbies has caused a lot of pages to 'break' as I have
> noticed.


YMMV. For simple stuff it's actually great and has been wonderful for
casual editors I've asked to try it. The problems really come on
complicated pages.

If they're creating completely fresh articles, I don't anticipate huge problems.

If problems do happen, the VisualEditor tag is monitored closely
enough they'll be picked up as bugs.


- d.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-16 Thread Samuel Klein 
This would be a wonderful general feature, for setting a collection of
preferences on signup.

SJ

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:11 AM, Jan Ainali  wrote:
> From Charles original questions I guess that he would be satisified with
> something like:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&enablevisualeditor=1
>
>
> which should enable the Visual Editor for users signing up through that
> link. If it is possible or not to do that I have no idea.
>
> *Med vänliga hälsningar,
> Jan Ainali*
>
> Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige 
> 0729 - 67 29 48
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/10/15 Craig Franklin 
>
>> Hear hear.
>>
>> I know this is a battle that the Foundation's engineers can't possibly win,
>> given the circumstances which VE was moved from opt-out to opt-in on enwiki
>> (see
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=prev&oldid=574251354
>> ,
>> for those who aren't aware).  Turn it on, turn it off; either way someone
>> gets upset.
>>
>> From a pure technical standpoint, is it possible to put a checkbox on the
>> new user page or something so that new users can turn it on without having
>> to delve deep into the untamed wilderness that is the user preferences
>> page?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> On 15 October 2013 21:54, Richard Nevell > >wrote:
>>
>> > I firmly agree with that, taking a detour to preferences when training
>> new
>> > editors isn't my preferred method.
>> >
>> > Richard
>> >
>> >
>> > On 15 October 2013 12:47, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hello,
>> > >
>> > > I think that for beginners things must be as simple and clear as
>> > > possible. Make them manipulate the preferences at the beginning of the
>> > > session is already complicated and a waste of time. Don't forget that
>> > > beginners already have to learn so many things quickly, so the more
>> > > you can reduce, the better.
>> > > Actually I'd prefer to have a model wiki that looks like Wikipedia but
>> > > is best suited to use in trainings.
>> > >
>> > > Kind regards
>> > > Ziko
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 
>> > > Dr. Ziko van Dijk
>> > > voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
>> > >
>> > > Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
>> > > Postbus 167
>> > > 3500 AD Utrecht
>> > > http://wikimedia.nl
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2013/10/15 Charles Andrès :
>> > > > Thanks, but in FR.Wikipedia.org you only have the opt-out option
>> > > (disable visual editor) :-(
>> > > >
>> > > > Charles
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ___
>> > > > I use this email for mailing list only.
>> > > >
>> > > > Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
>> > > > "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
>> > > > www.wikimedia.ch
>> > > > Skype: charles.andres.wmch
>> > > > IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
>> > > >
>> > > > Le 15 oct. 2013 à 10:10, Enock Seth Nyamador  a
>> > > écrit :
>> > > >
>> > > >> Hello Charles,
>> > > >>
>> > > >> I don't think there is a way to for this in the registration
>> process.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> To enable or disable Visual Editor. Login
>> > > >>
>> > > >> 1. Go to ---> Preferences --> Click Editing tab.
>> > > >> 2. At the bottom of Editing page, Check or uncheck the box beside
>> > > Enable VisualEditor (only in the main and user namespaces)
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> OR
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Follow this link
>> > >
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing
>> > > >> Then repeat step 2 above.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Hope it helps.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Thanks.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Regards,
>> > > >> Enock S. Nyamador.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> ---
>> > > >> Writer | Wikimedian
>> > > >> Planning Wikimedia Ghana | About.me | Blog
>> > > >> C: +233 (0)27 565 7589
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Charles Andres <
>> > > charles.andres.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >> Dear all,
>> > > >>
>> > > >> In our new education program with youngs in scholar difficulties, we
>> > > have the problem that only half of the new accounts have the visual
>> > editor
>> > > activated, it's quite annoying to have two teach two way of editing.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Is there a trick to force the activation of Visual Editor for a
>> > > specific user?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Thanks
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Charles
>> > > >>
>> > > >> ___
>> > > >> Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
>> > > >> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
>> > > >> www.wikimedia.ch
>> > > >> Skype: charles.andres.wmch
>> > > >> IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
>> > > >>
>> > > >> ___
>> > > >> E

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Risker 
You're correct Srikanth; I'd like to think that VisualEditor will be the
"entry" editing interface of the future, but it's still not stable enough
and is missing too many features to be ideal for new editors.  It is,
however, getting better every time I use it, so it is inching closer
incrementally.  Today I successfully completed an edit using VE that I know
for a fact would have broken the page back in July, so progress is being
made.  When I worked with a group of new editors back in August, they
universally reverted to using Wikitext because it had easy-to-use
referencing and editing tools, only some of which are now incorporated into
VE, but I have faith that these will be folded in as time goes on.

It should be noted, however, that almost every single "bug" reported in
relation to VE occurred with experienced editors who had the skill to
report it, or to at least figure out how to "undo" the edit.  Those that
occurred with new editors were not reported unless an experienced editor
reviewed it and then tried to replicate it and figure out what went wrong.
It was this situation that led to showdowns on the English Wikipedia, more
so than just about anything else.  Well, that, and making it the production
editing interface without even testing major features.

I cannot speak to the experience on projects outside of English Wikipedia,
but I dearly hope that things are going more smoothly on other projects
that have not decided to remove themselves from participation in the
testing.

Risker




On 16 October 2013 01:08, Srikanth Ramakrishnan wrote:

> Chris, as Ziko put it. Would you like a novice driver with a Learner's
> permit to drive on a Crowded street or a High speed expressway or in a
> deserted ground?
>
> Visual Editor for newbies has caused a lot of pages to 'break' as I have
> noticed.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 1:27 AM, Chris Keating
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
> > srik.r...@wikimedia.in> wrote:
> >
> > > That would be a great idea; but nobody seems to bother. They just start
> > > editing articles right away.
> > >
> > >
> > Oh no! People editing articles! What a disaster!
> >
> > 
> >
> > Chris
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Srikanth Ramakrishnan
> Treasurer,
> Wikimedia Chapter [India]
>
> Donate to the Wikimedia India Chapter today<
> http://wiki.wikimedia.in/Donations>
> ___
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Srikanth Ramakrishnan 
Chris, as Ziko put it. Would you like a novice driver with a Learner's
permit to drive on a Crowded street or a High speed expressway or in a
deserted ground?

Visual Editor for newbies has caused a lot of pages to 'break' as I have
noticed.



On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 1:27 AM, Chris Keating
wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
> srik.r...@wikimedia.in> wrote:
>
> > That would be a great idea; but nobody seems to bother. They just start
> > editing articles right away.
> >
> >
> Oh no! People editing articles! What a disaster!
>
> 
>
> Chris
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>



-- 
Srikanth Ramakrishnan
Treasurer,
Wikimedia Chapter [India]

Donate to the Wikimedia India Chapter today
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Chris Keating 
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan <
srik.r...@wikimedia.in> wrote:

> That would be a great idea; but nobody seems to bother. They just start
> editing articles right away.
>
>
Oh no! People editing articles! What a disaster!



Chris
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Ziko van Dijk 
This is very true; there is a gap between what (most) beginners like
to do and what would be wise to do. Some education colleagues told me
that their beginners never wanted to edit elsewhere than on the real
Wikipedia, not on an educational wiki. That beginners what to write
"an article of their own" as the first thing, and are not interested
in free knowledge, free licenses etc.

I compare that to someone who wants to get a drivers license. Riding
on the highway, that's great, but learning for the theoretical exam,
few are eager to. :-)

Kind regards
Ziko




Dr. Ziko van Dijk
voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland

Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
Postbus 167
3500 AD Utrecht
http://wikimedia.nl



2013/10/15 Srikanth Ramakrishnan :
> That would be a great idea; but nobody seems to bother. They just start
> editing articles right away.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Sophie Osterberg
> wrote:
>
>> Srikanth, why don't you let them use their sandbox then to learn VE?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/10/15 Srikanth Ramakrishnan 
>>
>> > Honestly speaking I'd disable Visual Editor for new users. They have a
>> > tendency of making errors.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Jan Ainali 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > From Charles original questions I guess that he would be satisified
>> with
>> > > something like:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&enablevisualeditor=1
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > which should enable the Visual Editor for users signing up through that
>> > > link. If it is possible or not to do that I have no idea.
>> > >
>> > > *Med vänliga hälsningar,
>> > > Jan Ainali*
>> > >
>> > > Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige <
>> > http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida
>> > > >
>> > > 0729 - 67 29 48
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2013/10/15 Craig Franklin 
>> > >
>> > > > Hear hear.
>> > > >
>> > > > I know this is a battle that the Foundation's engineers can't
>> possibly
>> > > win,
>> > > > given the circumstances which VE was moved from opt-out to opt-in on
>> > > enwiki
>> > > > (see
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=prev&oldid=574251354
>> > > > ,
>> > > > for those who aren't aware).  Turn it on, turn it off; either way
>> > someone
>> > > > gets upset.
>> > > >
>> > > > From a pure technical standpoint, is it possible to put a checkbox on
>> > the
>> > > > new user page or something so that new users can turn it on without
>> > > having
>> > > > to delve deep into the untamed wilderness that is the user
>> preferences
>> > > > page?
>> > > >
>> > > > Cheers,
>> > > > Craig
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On 15 October 2013 21:54, Richard Nevell <
>> > > richard.nev...@wikimedia.org.uk
>> > > > >wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > I firmly agree with that, taking a detour to preferences when
>> > training
>> > > > new
>> > > > > editors isn't my preferred method.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Richard
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On 15 October 2013 12:47, Ziko van Dijk 
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Hello,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I think that for beginners things must be as simple and clear as
>> > > > > > possible. Make them manipulate the preferences at the beginning
>> of
>> > > the
>> > > > > > session is already complicated and a waste of time. Don't forget
>> > that
>> > > > > > beginners already have to learn so many things quickly, so the
>> more
>> > > > > > you can reduce, the better.
>> > > > > > Actually I'd prefer to have a model wiki that looks like
>> Wikipedia
>> > > but
>> > > > > > is best suited to use in trainings.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Kind regards
>> > > > > > Ziko
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 
>> > > > > > Dr. Ziko van Dijk
>> > > > > > voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
>> > > > > > Postbus 167
>> > > > > > 3500 AD Utrecht
>> > > > > > http://wikimedia.nl
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > 2013/10/15 Charles Andrès :
>> > > > > > > Thanks, but in FR.Wikipedia.org you only have the opt-out
>> option
>> > > > > > (disable visual editor) :-(
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Charles
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > ___
>> > > > > > > I use this email for mailing list only.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
>> > > > > > > "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of fre

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Andrew Gray 
Before Visual Editor was invented, we complained about people starting
editing right away and making mistakes. I'm not sure this is a
completely tool-linked issue ;-)

A.

On 15 October 2013 18:42, Srikanth Ramakrishnan  wrote:
> That would be a great idea; but nobody seems to bother. They just start
> editing articles right away.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Sophie Osterberg
> wrote:
>
>> Srikanth, why don't you let them use their sandbox then to learn VE?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/10/15 Srikanth Ramakrishnan 
>>
>> > Honestly speaking I'd disable Visual Editor for new users. They have a
>> > tendency of making errors.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Jan Ainali 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > From Charles original questions I guess that he would be satisified
>> with
>> > > something like:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&enablevisualeditor=1
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > which should enable the Visual Editor for users signing up through that
>> > > link. If it is possible or not to do that I have no idea.
>> > >
>> > > *Med vänliga hälsningar,
>> > > Jan Ainali*
>> > >
>> > > Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige <
>> > http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida
>> > > >
>> > > 0729 - 67 29 48
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2013/10/15 Craig Franklin 
>> > >
>> > > > Hear hear.
>> > > >
>> > > > I know this is a battle that the Foundation's engineers can't
>> possibly
>> > > win,
>> > > > given the circumstances which VE was moved from opt-out to opt-in on
>> > > enwiki
>> > > > (see
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=prev&oldid=574251354
>> > > > ,
>> > > > for those who aren't aware).  Turn it on, turn it off; either way
>> > someone
>> > > > gets upset.
>> > > >
>> > > > From a pure technical standpoint, is it possible to put a checkbox on
>> > the
>> > > > new user page or something so that new users can turn it on without
>> > > having
>> > > > to delve deep into the untamed wilderness that is the user
>> preferences
>> > > > page?
>> > > >
>> > > > Cheers,
>> > > > Craig
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On 15 October 2013 21:54, Richard Nevell <
>> > > richard.nev...@wikimedia.org.uk
>> > > > >wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > I firmly agree with that, taking a detour to preferences when
>> > training
>> > > > new
>> > > > > editors isn't my preferred method.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Richard
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On 15 October 2013 12:47, Ziko van Dijk 
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Hello,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I think that for beginners things must be as simple and clear as
>> > > > > > possible. Make them manipulate the preferences at the beginning
>> of
>> > > the
>> > > > > > session is already complicated and a waste of time. Don't forget
>> > that
>> > > > > > beginners already have to learn so many things quickly, so the
>> more
>> > > > > > you can reduce, the better.
>> > > > > > Actually I'd prefer to have a model wiki that looks like
>> Wikipedia
>> > > but
>> > > > > > is best suited to use in trainings.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Kind regards
>> > > > > > Ziko
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 
>> > > > > > Dr. Ziko van Dijk
>> > > > > > voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
>> > > > > > Postbus 167
>> > > > > > 3500 AD Utrecht
>> > > > > > http://wikimedia.nl
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> 
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > 2013/10/15 Charles Andrès :
>> > > > > > > Thanks, but in FR.Wikipedia.org you only have the opt-out
>> option
>> > > > > > (disable visual editor) :-(
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Charles
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > ___
>> > > > > > > I use this email for mailing list only.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
>> > > > > > > "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free
>> > knowledge
>> > > –
>> > > > > > > www.wikimedia.ch
>> > > > > > > Skype: charles.andres.wmch
>> > > > > > > IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Le 15 oct. 2013 à 10:10, Enock Seth Nyamador <
>> > kwadzo...@gmail.com>
>> > > a
>> > > > > > écrit :
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >> Hello Charles,
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> I don't think there is a way to for this in the registration
>> > > > process.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> To enable or disable Visual Editor. Login
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> 1. Go to ---> Preferences --> Click Editing tab.
>> > > > > > >> 2. At the bottom of Editing page, Check or uncheck the box
>> > be

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Srikanth Ramakrishnan 
That would be a great idea; but nobody seems to bother. They just start
editing articles right away.



On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Sophie Osterberg
wrote:

> Srikanth, why don't you let them use their sandbox then to learn VE?
>
>
>
>
> 2013/10/15 Srikanth Ramakrishnan 
>
> > Honestly speaking I'd disable Visual Editor for new users. They have a
> > tendency of making errors.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Jan Ainali 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > From Charles original questions I guess that he would be satisified
> with
> > > something like:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&enablevisualeditor=1
> > >
> > >
> > > which should enable the Visual Editor for users signing up through that
> > > link. If it is possible or not to do that I have no idea.
> > >
> > > *Med vänliga hälsningar,
> > > Jan Ainali*
> > >
> > > Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige <
> > http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida
> > > >
> > > 0729 - 67 29 48
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2013/10/15 Craig Franklin 
> > >
> > > > Hear hear.
> > > >
> > > > I know this is a battle that the Foundation's engineers can't
> possibly
> > > win,
> > > > given the circumstances which VE was moved from opt-out to opt-in on
> > > enwiki
> > > > (see
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=prev&oldid=574251354
> > > > ,
> > > > for those who aren't aware).  Turn it on, turn it off; either way
> > someone
> > > > gets upset.
> > > >
> > > > From a pure technical standpoint, is it possible to put a checkbox on
> > the
> > > > new user page or something so that new users can turn it on without
> > > having
> > > > to delve deep into the untamed wilderness that is the user
> preferences
> > > > page?
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Craig
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 15 October 2013 21:54, Richard Nevell <
> > > richard.nev...@wikimedia.org.uk
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I firmly agree with that, taking a detour to preferences when
> > training
> > > > new
> > > > > editors isn't my preferred method.
> > > > >
> > > > > Richard
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 15 October 2013 12:47, Ziko van Dijk 
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think that for beginners things must be as simple and clear as
> > > > > > possible. Make them manipulate the preferences at the beginning
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > session is already complicated and a waste of time. Don't forget
> > that
> > > > > > beginners already have to learn so many things quickly, so the
> more
> > > > > > you can reduce, the better.
> > > > > > Actually I'd prefer to have a model wiki that looks like
> Wikipedia
> > > but
> > > > > > is best suited to use in trainings.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards
> > > > > > Ziko
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > > > > Dr. Ziko van Dijk
> > > > > > voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
> > > > > > Postbus 167
> > > > > > 3500 AD Utrecht
> > > > > > http://wikimedia.nl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2013/10/15 Charles Andrès :
> > > > > > > Thanks, but in FR.Wikipedia.org you only have the opt-out
> option
> > > > > > (disable visual editor) :-(
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Charles
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ___
> > > > > > > I use this email for mailing list only.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
> > > > > > > "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free
> > knowledge
> > > –
> > > > > > > www.wikimedia.ch
> > > > > > > Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> > > > > > > IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Le 15 oct. 2013 à 10:10, Enock Seth Nyamador <
> > kwadzo...@gmail.com>
> > > a
> > > > > > écrit :
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Hello Charles,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I don't think there is a way to for this in the registration
> > > > process.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> To enable or disable Visual Editor. Login
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 1. Go to ---> Preferences --> Click Editing tab.
> > > > > > >> 2. At the bottom of Editing page, Check or uncheck the box
> > beside
> > > > > > Enable VisualEditor (only in the main and user namespaces)
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> OR
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Follow this link
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing
> > > > > > >> Then repeat step 2 above.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Hope it helps.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Thanks.
> > > > > > >>
>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Sophie Osterberg 
Srikanth, why don't you let them use their sandbox then to learn VE?




2013/10/15 Srikanth Ramakrishnan 

> Honestly speaking I'd disable Visual Editor for new users. They have a
> tendency of making errors.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Jan Ainali 
> wrote:
>
> > From Charles original questions I guess that he would be satisified with
> > something like:
> >
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&enablevisualeditor=1
> >
> >
> > which should enable the Visual Editor for users signing up through that
> > link. If it is possible or not to do that I have no idea.
> >
> > *Med vänliga hälsningar,
> > Jan Ainali*
> >
> > Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige <
> http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida
> > >
> > 0729 - 67 29 48
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2013/10/15 Craig Franklin 
> >
> > > Hear hear.
> > >
> > > I know this is a battle that the Foundation's engineers can't possibly
> > win,
> > > given the circumstances which VE was moved from opt-out to opt-in on
> > enwiki
> > > (see
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=prev&oldid=574251354
> > > ,
> > > for those who aren't aware).  Turn it on, turn it off; either way
> someone
> > > gets upset.
> > >
> > > From a pure technical standpoint, is it possible to put a checkbox on
> the
> > > new user page or something so that new users can turn it on without
> > having
> > > to delve deep into the untamed wilderness that is the user preferences
> > > page?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Craig
> > >
> > >
> > > On 15 October 2013 21:54, Richard Nevell <
> > richard.nev...@wikimedia.org.uk
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > I firmly agree with that, taking a detour to preferences when
> training
> > > new
> > > > editors isn't my preferred method.
> > > >
> > > > Richard
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 15 October 2013 12:47, Ziko van Dijk 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that for beginners things must be as simple and clear as
> > > > > possible. Make them manipulate the preferences at the beginning of
> > the
> > > > > session is already complicated and a waste of time. Don't forget
> that
> > > > > beginners already have to learn so many things quickly, so the more
> > > > > you can reduce, the better.
> > > > > Actually I'd prefer to have a model wiki that looks like Wikipedia
> > but
> > > > > is best suited to use in trainings.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards
> > > > > Ziko
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > > > Dr. Ziko van Dijk
> > > > > voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
> > > > >
> > > > > Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
> > > > > Postbus 167
> > > > > 3500 AD Utrecht
> > > > > http://wikimedia.nl
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2013/10/15 Charles Andrès :
> > > > > > Thanks, but in FR.Wikipedia.org you only have the opt-out option
> > > > > (disable visual editor) :-(
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Charles
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ___
> > > > > > I use this email for mailing list only.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
> > > > > > "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free
> knowledge
> > –
> > > > > > www.wikimedia.ch
> > > > > > Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> > > > > > IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Le 15 oct. 2013 à 10:10, Enock Seth Nyamador <
> kwadzo...@gmail.com>
> > a
> > > > > écrit :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Hello Charles,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I don't think there is a way to for this in the registration
> > > process.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> To enable or disable Visual Editor. Login
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> 1. Go to ---> Preferences --> Click Editing tab.
> > > > > >> 2. At the bottom of Editing page, Check or uncheck the box
> beside
> > > > > Enable VisualEditor (only in the main and user namespaces)
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> OR
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Follow this link
> > > > >
> > >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing
> > > > > >> Then repeat step 2 above.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Hope it helps.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Thanks.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Regards,
> > > > > >> Enock S. Nyamador.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ---
> > > > > >> Writer | Wikimedian
> > > > > >> Planning Wikimedia Ghana | About.me | Blog
> > > > > >> C: +233 (0)27 565 7589
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Charles Andres <
> > > > > charles.andres.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >> Dear all,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> In our new education program with youngs in scholar
> difficulties,
> > we
> > > > > have the problem that only

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Srikanth Ramakrishnan 
Honestly speaking I'd disable Visual Editor for new users. They have a
tendency of making errors.



On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Jan Ainali  wrote:

> From Charles original questions I guess that he would be satisified with
> something like:
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&enablevisualeditor=1
>
>
> which should enable the Visual Editor for users signing up through that
> link. If it is possible or not to do that I have no idea.
>
> *Med vänliga hälsningar,
> Jan Ainali*
>
> Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige  >
> 0729 - 67 29 48
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/10/15 Craig Franklin 
>
> > Hear hear.
> >
> > I know this is a battle that the Foundation's engineers can't possibly
> win,
> > given the circumstances which VE was moved from opt-out to opt-in on
> enwiki
> > (see
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=prev&oldid=574251354
> > ,
> > for those who aren't aware).  Turn it on, turn it off; either way someone
> > gets upset.
> >
> > From a pure technical standpoint, is it possible to put a checkbox on the
> > new user page or something so that new users can turn it on without
> having
> > to delve deep into the untamed wilderness that is the user preferences
> > page?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Craig
> >
> >
> > On 15 October 2013 21:54, Richard Nevell <
> richard.nev...@wikimedia.org.uk
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > I firmly agree with that, taking a detour to preferences when training
> > new
> > > editors isn't my preferred method.
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> > >
> > > On 15 October 2013 12:47, Ziko van Dijk 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I think that for beginners things must be as simple and clear as
> > > > possible. Make them manipulate the preferences at the beginning of
> the
> > > > session is already complicated and a waste of time. Don't forget that
> > > > beginners already have to learn so many things quickly, so the more
> > > > you can reduce, the better.
> > > > Actually I'd prefer to have a model wiki that looks like Wikipedia
> but
> > > > is best suited to use in trainings.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards
> > > > Ziko
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > > Dr. Ziko van Dijk
> > > > voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
> > > >
> > > > Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
> > > > Postbus 167
> > > > 3500 AD Utrecht
> > > > http://wikimedia.nl
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2013/10/15 Charles Andrès :
> > > > > Thanks, but in FR.Wikipedia.org you only have the opt-out option
> > > > (disable visual editor) :-(
> > > > >
> > > > > Charles
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ___
> > > > > I use this email for mailing list only.
> > > > >
> > > > > Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
> > > > > "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge
> –
> > > > > www.wikimedia.ch
> > > > > Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> > > > > IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
> > > > >
> > > > > Le 15 oct. 2013 à 10:10, Enock Seth Nyamador 
> a
> > > > écrit :
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hello Charles,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I don't think there is a way to for this in the registration
> > process.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> To enable or disable Visual Editor. Login
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1. Go to ---> Preferences --> Click Editing tab.
> > > > >> 2. At the bottom of Editing page, Check or uncheck the box beside
> > > > Enable VisualEditor (only in the main and user namespaces)
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> OR
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Follow this link
> > > >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing
> > > > >> Then repeat step 2 above.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hope it helps.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Regards,
> > > > >> Enock S. Nyamador.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ---
> > > > >> Writer | Wikimedian
> > > > >> Planning Wikimedia Ghana | About.me | Blog
> > > > >> C: +233 (0)27 565 7589
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Charles Andres <
> > > > charles.andres.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> Dear all,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> In our new education program with youngs in scholar difficulties,
> we
> > > > have the problem that only half of the new accounts have the visual
> > > editor
> > > > activated, it's quite annoying to have two teach two way of editing.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Is there a trick to force the activation of Visual Editor for a
> > > > specific user?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Charles
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ___
> > > > >> Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
> > > > >> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Jan Ainali 
From Charles original questions I guess that he would be satisified with
something like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&enablevisualeditor=1


which should enable the Visual Editor for users signing up through that
link. If it is possible or not to do that I have no idea.

*Med vänliga hälsningar,
Jan Ainali*

Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige 
0729 - 67 29 48






2013/10/15 Craig Franklin 

> Hear hear.
>
> I know this is a battle that the Foundation's engineers can't possibly win,
> given the circumstances which VE was moved from opt-out to opt-in on enwiki
> (see
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=prev&oldid=574251354
> ,
> for those who aren't aware).  Turn it on, turn it off; either way someone
> gets upset.
>
> From a pure technical standpoint, is it possible to put a checkbox on the
> new user page or something so that new users can turn it on without having
> to delve deep into the untamed wilderness that is the user preferences
> page?
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
>
>
> On 15 October 2013 21:54, Richard Nevell  >wrote:
>
> > I firmly agree with that, taking a detour to preferences when training
> new
> > editors isn't my preferred method.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> >
> > On 15 October 2013 12:47, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I think that for beginners things must be as simple and clear as
> > > possible. Make them manipulate the preferences at the beginning of the
> > > session is already complicated and a waste of time. Don't forget that
> > > beginners already have to learn so many things quickly, so the more
> > > you can reduce, the better.
> > > Actually I'd prefer to have a model wiki that looks like Wikipedia but
> > > is best suited to use in trainings.
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > > Ziko
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > Dr. Ziko van Dijk
> > > voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
> > >
> > > Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
> > > Postbus 167
> > > 3500 AD Utrecht
> > > http://wikimedia.nl
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > >
> > >
> > > 2013/10/15 Charles Andrès :
> > > > Thanks, but in FR.Wikipedia.org you only have the opt-out option
> > > (disable visual editor) :-(
> > > >
> > > > Charles
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > I use this email for mailing list only.
> > > >
> > > > Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
> > > > "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> > > > www.wikimedia.ch
> > > > Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> > > > IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
> > > >
> > > > Le 15 oct. 2013 à 10:10, Enock Seth Nyamador  a
> > > écrit :
> > > >
> > > >> Hello Charles,
> > > >>
> > > >> I don't think there is a way to for this in the registration
> process.
> > > >>
> > > >> To enable or disable Visual Editor. Login
> > > >>
> > > >> 1. Go to ---> Preferences --> Click Editing tab.
> > > >> 2. At the bottom of Editing page, Check or uncheck the box beside
> > > Enable VisualEditor (only in the main and user namespaces)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> OR
> > > >>
> > > >> Follow this link
> > >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing
> > > >> Then repeat step 2 above.
> > > >>
> > > >> Hope it helps.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >> Enock S. Nyamador.
> > > >>
> > > >> ---
> > > >> Writer | Wikimedian
> > > >> Planning Wikimedia Ghana | About.me | Blog
> > > >> C: +233 (0)27 565 7589
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Charles Andres <
> > > charles.andres.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> Dear all,
> > > >>
> > > >> In our new education program with youngs in scholar difficulties, we
> > > have the problem that only half of the new accounts have the visual
> > editor
> > > activated, it's quite annoying to have two teach two way of editing.
> > > >>
> > > >> Is there a trick to force the activation of Visual Editor for a
> > > specific user?
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks
> > > >>
> > > >> Charles
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
> > > >> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> > > >> www.wikimedia.ch
> > > >> Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> > > >> IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> Education mailing list
> > > >> educat...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Craig Franklin 
Hear hear.

I know this is a battle that the Foundation's engineers can't possibly win,
given the circumstances which VE was moved from opt-out to opt-in on enwiki
(see
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=prev&oldid=574251354,
for those who aren't aware).  Turn it on, turn it off; either way someone
gets upset.

From a pure technical standpoint, is it possible to put a checkbox on the
new user page or something so that new users can turn it on without having
to delve deep into the untamed wilderness that is the user preferences page?

Cheers,
Craig


On 15 October 2013 21:54, Richard Nevell wrote:

> I firmly agree with that, taking a detour to preferences when training new
> editors isn't my preferred method.
>
> Richard
>
>
> On 15 October 2013 12:47, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I think that for beginners things must be as simple and clear as
> > possible. Make them manipulate the preferences at the beginning of the
> > session is already complicated and a waste of time. Don't forget that
> > beginners already have to learn so many things quickly, so the more
> > you can reduce, the better.
> > Actually I'd prefer to have a model wiki that looks like Wikipedia but
> > is best suited to use in trainings.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Ziko
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > Dr. Ziko van Dijk
> > voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
> >
> > Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
> > Postbus 167
> > 3500 AD Utrecht
> > http://wikimedia.nl
> >
> >
> 
> >
> >
> > 2013/10/15 Charles Andrès :
> > > Thanks, but in FR.Wikipedia.org you only have the opt-out option
> > (disable visual editor) :-(
> > >
> > > Charles
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > I use this email for mailing list only.
> > >
> > > Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
> > > "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> > > www.wikimedia.ch
> > > Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> > > IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
> > >
> > > Le 15 oct. 2013 à 10:10, Enock Seth Nyamador  a
> > écrit :
> > >
> > >> Hello Charles,
> > >>
> > >> I don't think there is a way to for this in the registration process.
> > >>
> > >> To enable or disable Visual Editor. Login
> > >>
> > >> 1. Go to ---> Preferences --> Click Editing tab.
> > >> 2. At the bottom of Editing page, Check or uncheck the box beside
> > Enable VisualEditor (only in the main and user namespaces)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> OR
> > >>
> > >> Follow this link
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing
> > >> Then repeat step 2 above.
> > >>
> > >> Hope it helps.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Enock S. Nyamador.
> > >>
> > >> ---
> > >> Writer | Wikimedian
> > >> Planning Wikimedia Ghana | About.me | Blog
> > >> C: +233 (0)27 565 7589
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Charles Andres <
> > charles.andres.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Dear all,
> > >>
> > >> In our new education program with youngs in scholar difficulties, we
> > have the problem that only half of the new accounts have the visual
> editor
> > activated, it's quite annoying to have two teach two way of editing.
> > >>
> > >> Is there a trick to force the activation of Visual Editor for a
> > specific user?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >>
> > >> Charles
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
> > >> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> > >> www.wikimedia.ch
> > >> Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> > >> IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> Education mailing list
> > >> educat...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Richard Nevell
> Wikimedia UK
> +44 (0) 20 7065 0753
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> movement. The Wikime

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Richard Nevell 
I firmly agree with that, taking a detour to preferences when training new
editors isn't my preferred method.

Richard


On 15 October 2013 12:47, Ziko van Dijk  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I think that for beginners things must be as simple and clear as
> possible. Make them manipulate the preferences at the beginning of the
> session is already complicated and a waste of time. Don't forget that
> beginners already have to learn so many things quickly, so the more
> you can reduce, the better.
> Actually I'd prefer to have a model wiki that looks like Wikipedia but
> is best suited to use in trainings.
>
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Dr. Ziko van Dijk
> voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
>
> Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
> Postbus 167
> 3500 AD Utrecht
> http://wikimedia.nl
>
> 
>
>
> 2013/10/15 Charles Andrès :
> > Thanks, but in FR.Wikipedia.org you only have the opt-out option
> (disable visual editor) :-(
> >
> > Charles
> >
> >
> > ___
> > I use this email for mailing list only.
> >
> > Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
> > "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> > www.wikimedia.ch
> > Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> > IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
> >
> > Le 15 oct. 2013 à 10:10, Enock Seth Nyamador  a
> écrit :
> >
> >> Hello Charles,
> >>
> >> I don't think there is a way to for this in the registration process.
> >>
> >> To enable or disable Visual Editor. Login
> >>
> >> 1. Go to ---> Preferences --> Click Editing tab.
> >> 2. At the bottom of Editing page, Check or uncheck the box beside
> Enable VisualEditor (only in the main and user namespaces)
> >>
> >>
> >> OR
> >>
> >> Follow this link
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing
> >> Then repeat step 2 above.
> >>
> >> Hope it helps.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Enock S. Nyamador.
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Writer | Wikimedian
> >> Planning Wikimedia Ghana | About.me | Blog
> >> C: +233 (0)27 565 7589
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Charles Andres <
> charles.andres.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >> In our new education program with youngs in scholar difficulties, we
> have the problem that only half of the new accounts have the visual editor
> activated, it's quite annoying to have two teach two way of editing.
> >>
> >> Is there a trick to force the activation of Visual Editor for a
> specific user?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Charles
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
> >> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> >> www.wikimedia.ch
> >> Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> >> IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Education mailing list
> >> educat...@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>



-- 
Richard Nevell
Wikimedia UK
+44 (0) 20 7065 0753

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Ziko van Dijk 
Hello,

I think that for beginners things must be as simple and clear as
possible. Make them manipulate the preferences at the beginning of the
session is already complicated and a waste of time. Don't forget that
beginners already have to learn so many things quickly, so the more
you can reduce, the better.
Actually I'd prefer to have a model wiki that looks like Wikipedia but
is best suited to use in trainings.

Kind regards
Ziko







Dr. Ziko van Dijk
voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland

Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
Postbus 167
3500 AD Utrecht
http://wikimedia.nl



2013/10/15 Charles Andrès :
> Thanks, but in FR.Wikipedia.org you only have the opt-out option (disable 
> visual editor) :-(
>
> Charles
>
>
> ___
> I use this email for mailing list only.
>
> Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> www.wikimedia.ch
> Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
>
> Le 15 oct. 2013 à 10:10, Enock Seth Nyamador  a écrit :
>
>> Hello Charles,
>>
>> I don't think there is a way to for this in the registration process.
>>
>> To enable or disable Visual Editor. Login
>>
>> 1. Go to ---> Preferences --> Click Editing tab.
>> 2. At the bottom of Editing page, Check or uncheck the box beside Enable 
>> VisualEditor (only in the main and user namespaces)
>>
>>
>> OR
>>
>> Follow this link 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing
>> Then repeat step 2 above.
>>
>> Hope it helps.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Enock S. Nyamador.
>>
>> ---
>> Writer | Wikimedian
>> Planning Wikimedia Ghana | About.me | Blog
>> C: +233 (0)27 565 7589
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Charles Andres 
>>  wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> In our new education program with youngs in scholar difficulties, we have 
>> the problem that only half of the new accounts have the visual editor 
>> activated, it's quite annoying to have two teach two way of editing.
>>
>> Is there a trick to force the activation of Visual Editor for a specific 
>> user?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Charles
>>
>> ___
>> Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
>> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
>> www.wikimedia.ch
>> Skype: charles.andres.wmch
>> IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
>>
>> ___
>> Education mailing list
>> educat...@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Education] How to force to enable Visual Editor

2013-10-15 Thread Charles Andrès 
Thanks, but in FR.Wikipedia.org you only have the opt-out option (disable 
visual editor) :-(

Charles


___
I use this email for mailing list only.

Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
"Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
www.wikimedia.ch
Skype: charles.andres.wmch
IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch

Le 15 oct. 2013 à 10:10, Enock Seth Nyamador  a écrit :

> Hello Charles,
> 
> I don't think there is a way to for this in the registration process.
> 
> To enable or disable Visual Editor. Login
>  
> 1. Go to ---> Preferences --> Click Editing tab. 
> 2. At the bottom of Editing page, Check or uncheck the box beside Enable 
> VisualEditor (only in the main and user namespaces)
> 
> 
> OR 
> 
> Follow this link 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing
> Then repeat step 2 above.
> 
> Hope it helps.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Regards,
> Enock S. Nyamador.
> 
> ---
> Writer | Wikimedian
> Planning Wikimedia Ghana | About.me | Blog
> C: +233 (0)27 565 7589
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Charles Andres 
>  wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> In our new education program with youngs in scholar difficulties, we have the 
> problem that only half of the new accounts have the visual editor activated, 
> it's quite annoying to have two teach two way of editing.
> 
> Is there a trick to force the activation of Visual Editor for a specific user?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Charles
> 
> ___
> Charles ANDRES, Chief Science Officer
> "Wikimedia CH" – Association for the advancement of free knowledge –
> www.wikimedia.ch
> Skype: charles.andres.wmch
> IRC://irc.freenode.net/wikimedia-ch
> 
> ___
> Education mailing list
> educat...@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education
> 
> 

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