Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikipedia guide for teachers
On Sun, 2009-12-06 at 08:30 -0800, AndrewRT wrote: I forgot to mention - I was speaking to someone at the Wikimedia Seminar last Thursday and they mentioned that their sister is a teacher (11-16yos) and often has problems with students using Wikipedia inappropriately (in the sense of repeating things that aren't true). She said it would be useful if we could put together a, say, 5 page guide, on the best way to use Wikipedia. Does anyone know if there is anything similar already out there and could anyone help out with putting something like this together? Eleven through sixteen is a broad range. I know there's several project administrators fall in that group but... For the 11-13 range I'd suggest they use Wikipedia for Schools. They can install it locally if they like, and actually letting the upper-end 15/16 loose on the mediawiki install would be the *perfect* education on how Wikipedia can have false information inserted. -- Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects. * Problems replying? Forward bounces to bria...@skynet.be to raise with Godaddy Hosting. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikipedia guide for teachers
2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org: For the 11-13 range I'd suggest they use Wikipedia for Schools. They can install it locally if they like, and actually letting the upper-end 15/16 loose on the mediawiki install would be the *perfect* education on how Wikipedia can have false information inserted. Wikipedia for Schools is about censoring Wikipedia. It doesn't make it any easier to do good research. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
[Wikimediauk-l] Skeleton branches
When we were recognised as a chapter by the Foundation we got permission to use names like Wikimedia Wales, Wikimedia Scotland (plus other language derivations) with the thought that some day they might be useful to have. We haven't yet had the need or opportunity to use them, but there are a couple of things coming up in the pipeline where it may be useful to brand ourselves Wikimedia Cymru and Wikimedia Scotland respectively rather than Wikimedia UK. I was thinking through how we could do this, and i was wondering if it might be a bit too much to just use the name without any kind of justification for the Welshness / Scottishness of the organisation. This is the idea I've come up with, which can be implemented with minimal effort and still justify, if we need to, to the outside world, our use of the terns. Please let me know what you think: 1) All members would automatically be allocated to a branch when they join based on where they lived 2) Any member could choose to switch to a different branch if they wanted to 3) The first branches would be England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (could discuss setting up more if the need arose in the future) 4) The board of Wikimedia UK could appoint a branch chair (and more officers if need be) from one of the members of that branch. That way we could brand things: xx xx Chair, Wikimedia Cymru followed by a contact address in Wales rather than: xx xx Secretary, Wikimedia UK with a contact address in England This would be particularly helpful when dealing with, for instance, Welsh language projects or devolved governments. Some time in the future - size and activity permitting - these may be able to evolve into fully fledged autonomous branches - or even independent chapters. For the constitutionalists among readers, I'd propose we establish the branches through an Article 28 resolution of the Board, ratified by the next AGM. Please let me know what you think. Andrew ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikipedia guide for teachers
On Sun, 2009-12-06 at 16:48 +, Thomas Dalton wrote: 2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org: For the 11-13 range I'd suggest they use Wikipedia for Schools. They can install it locally if they like, and actually letting the upper-end 15/16 loose on the mediawiki install would be the *perfect* education on how Wikipedia can have false information inserted. Wikipedia for Schools is about censoring Wikipedia. It doesn't make it any easier to do good research. Mmmm? Do you make a habit of telling children aged eleven they can look things up on a website with pictures of an adult performing autofellatio? -- Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org|http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil Content of this message in no way represents the opinions or official position of the Wikimedia Foundation or any of its projects. * Problems replying? Forward bounces to bria...@skynet.be to raise with Godaddy Hosting. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikipedia guide for teachers
2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org: Mmmm? Do you make a habit of telling children aged eleven they can look things up on a website with pictures of an adult performing autofellatio? Personally, I am very sceptical that such things are harmful to children. However, that is irrelevant. The question was about helping students use Wikipedia more effectively by correctly determining the reliability of different claims. Wikipedia for Schools doesn't help with that so it not a helpful suggestion. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Skeleton branches
Nice idea, but it seems to me that this is a little premature. I think it's something that wikimedians in wales, scotland and northern ireland need to say that they want before time is invested setting it up... BTW, I would have the officers of the branches elected by members rather than appointed by the board. Mike On 6 Dec 2009, at 17:02, AndrewRT wrote: When we were recognised as a chapter by the Foundation we got permission to use names like Wikimedia Wales, Wikimedia Scotland (plus other language derivations) with the thought that some day they might be useful to have. We haven't yet had the need or opportunity to use them, but there are a couple of things coming up in the pipeline where it may be useful to brand ourselves Wikimedia Cymru and Wikimedia Scotland respectively rather than Wikimedia UK. I was thinking through how we could do this, and i was wondering if it might be a bit too much to just use the name without any kind of justification for the Welshness / Scottishness of the organisation. This is the idea I've come up with, which can be implemented with minimal effort and still justify, if we need to, to the outside world, our use of the terns. Please let me know what you think: 1) All members would automatically be allocated to a branch when they join based on where they lived 2) Any member could choose to switch to a different branch if they wanted to 3) The first branches would be England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (could discuss setting up more if the need arose in the future) 4) The board of Wikimedia UK could appoint a branch chair (and more officers if need be) from one of the members of that branch. That way we could brand things: xx xx Chair, Wikimedia Cymru followed by a contact address in Wales rather than: xx xx Secretary, Wikimedia UK with a contact address in England This would be particularly helpful when dealing with, for instance, Welsh language projects or devolved governments. Some time in the future - size and activity permitting - these may be able to evolve into fully fledged autonomous branches - or even independent chapters. For the constitutionalists among readers, I'd propose we establish the branches through an Article 28 resolution of the Board, ratified by the next AGM. Please let me know what you think. Andrew ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikipedia guide for teachers
2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org: However, kids that age are smart enough to work from Wikipedia for schools (vetted and dumbed down) to comparing with Wikipedia and seeing why certain information is taken out or considered dubious. As far as I know, Wikipedia for Schools doesn't attempt to remove dubious information. It just chooses information relevant to the National Curriculum - it's all about relevance, not reliability. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Skeleton branches
Aside from the possibility that London might want to be a chapter, I would have thought that organising subchapters by language would be at least as relevant as geographical ones. We have wikis for Scots and at least three celtic languages, plus perhaps Bangla and other languages? I see no reason why we can't cut this cake in several different dimensions, depending on whats relevant to the task in hand. WereSpielChequers 2009/12/6 AndrewRT andrewrtur...@googlemail.com: When we were recognised as a chapter by the Foundation we got permission to use names like Wikimedia Wales, Wikimedia Scotland (plus other language derivations) with the thought that some day they might be useful to have. We haven't yet had the need or opportunity to use them, but there are a couple of things coming up in the pipeline where it may be useful to brand ourselves Wikimedia Cymru and Wikimedia Scotland respectively rather than Wikimedia UK. I was thinking through how we could do this, and i was wondering if it might be a bit too much to just use the name without any kind of justification for the Welshness / Scottishness of the organisation. This is the idea I've come up with, which can be implemented with minimal effort and still justify, if we need to, to the outside world, our use of the terns. Please let me know what you think: 1) All members would automatically be allocated to a branch when they join based on where they lived 2) Any member could choose to switch to a different branch if they wanted to 3) The first branches would be England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (could discuss setting up more if the need arose in the future) 4) The board of Wikimedia UK could appoint a branch chair (and more officers if need be) from one of the members of that branch. That way we could brand things: xx xx Chair, Wikimedia Cymru followed by a contact address in Wales rather than: xx xx Secretary, Wikimedia UK with a contact address in England This would be particularly helpful when dealing with, for instance, Welsh language projects or devolved governments. Some time in the future - size and activity permitting - these may be able to evolve into fully fledged autonomous branches - or even independent chapters. For the constitutionalists among readers, I'd propose we establish the branches through an Article 28 resolution of the Board, ratified by the next AGM. Please let me know what you think. Andrew ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- WereSpielChequers ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Skeleton branches
2009/12/6 WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@googlemail.com: Aside from the possibility that London might want to be a chapter, I would have thought that organising subchapters by language would be at least as relevant as geographical ones. We have wikis for Scots and at least three celtic languages, plus perhaps Bangla and other languages? I see no reason why we can't cut this cake in several different dimensions, depending on whats relevant to the task in hand. Chapters are supposed to be geographic in range rather than linguistic. I guess there is no reason why we can't use different rules for subchapters, though. For the most part languages follow geographic lines anyway, it's just immigrant languages that don't. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Skeleton branches
2009/12/6 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com: 2009/12/6 WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@googlemail.com: Aside from the possibility that London might want to be a chapter, I would have thought that organising subchapters by language would be at least as relevant as geographical ones. We have wikis for Scots and at least three celtic languages, plus perhaps Bangla and other languages? I see no reason why we can't cut this cake in several different dimensions, depending on whats relevant to the task in hand. Chapters are supposed to be geographic in range rather than linguistic. I guess there is no reason why we can't use different rules for subchapters, though. For the most part languages follow geographic lines anyway, it's just immigrant languages that don't. I vaguely recall that some *huge* proportion (90%) of Bangla (I think) speakers in Britain are in the borough of Tower Hamlets in London. So geographical distribution does happen! There will be towns where immigrants from a given place will congregate. c.f. Bradford and Birmingham as the places of origin of many Indian dishes. - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikipedia guide for teachers
AndrewRT wrote: I forgot to mention - I was speaking to someone at the Wikimedia Seminar last Thursday and they mentioned that their sister is a teacher (11-16yos) and often has problems with students using Wikipedia inappropriately (in the sense of repeating things that aren't true). She said it would be useful if we could put together a, say, 5 page guide, on the best way to use Wikipedia. Does anyone know if there is anything similar already out there and could anyone help out with putting something like this together? There are actually several issues. Two major ones are covered by How Wikipedia Works, which is under the GFDL. Online you can find http://howwikipediaworks.com/ch04.html: Chapter 4. Understanding and Evaluating an Article A number of reviewers singled out this chapter as containing original material about article evaluation, which is one topic a teacher would be interested in. http://howwikipediaworks.com/apb.html : Appendix B. Wikipedia for Teachers 1. Wikipedia as a Classroom Reference Resource 2. Guiding Student Use of Wikipedia 3. Assigning Wikipedia Editing More conventional things about citation, in particular. If a school student is misled by Wikipedia, there are of course several possible causes: Wikipedia is wrong; the student is misreading by being superficial about what is said, or is summarising inaccurately; or material is being taken out of context (for example neutrality being affected by selective quotation). It should be possible to hit the highlights over five pages. What would be really valuable would be to have some feedback, to have an idea how it goes with school students of various age groups (e.g. GCSE, A-level classes), and what the key points are for them. For 11 to 16, there should probably be plenty of emphasis on the presence and style of references, and accuracy in reading what is written; the language used is usually not pitched to the reading age at the lower end of that age group. Charles ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikipedia guide for teachers
2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org: On Sun, 2009-12-06 at 16:48 +, Thomas Dalton wrote: 2009/12/6 Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org: For the 11-13 range I'd suggest they use Wikipedia for Schools. They can install it locally if they like, and actually letting the upper-end 15/16 loose on the mediawiki install would be the *perfect* education on how Wikipedia can have false information inserted. Wikipedia for Schools is about censoring Wikipedia. It doesn't make it any easier to do good research. Mmmm? Do you make a habit of telling children aged eleven they can look things up on a website with pictures of an adult performing autofellatio? Since most people will recommend a search engine of some type at some point it is a fairly common activity. -- geni ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Skeleton branches
Thanks everyone for the comments. To respond to three points raised: On Dec 6, 5:11 pm, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/6 AndrewRT andrewrtur...@googlemail.com: That's pretty much what I've been thinking, although I'm not sure we need it yet. I think we ought to let the members of each branch elect their chair, though (ratified by the board). I think that's stage 2 - autonomous branches. Where you only have two or three members having a full blown election seems unnecessary, but a skeleton branch would be useful because it gives us a way of using the name before moving to a full autonomous branch. For the constitutionalists among readers, I'd propose we establish the branches through an Article 28 resolution of the Board, ratified by the next AGM. I disagree. I think Article 3.1 is better suited to it. Article 3.1 would need permission of the AGM first and I'm not sure it would quite fit. I'm talking about two particular projects that could be started before the AGM. As for London, although it may be a great branch in terms of running activities - although we already have the London Wikimeet for that - I'm not sure we could do anything as Wikimedia London that we couldn't do as Wikimedia UK. Besides, we didn't actually ask for permission to use Wikimedia London! Andrew ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
