Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Question: UK versus regional branding
On Thu, 2011-09-15 at 15:10 +0100, Katie Chan wrote: There seems to be an unspoken underlying assumption in this thread that efforts that can be seem to be directed as appeasing Scottish nationalists would not at the same time upset unionists. I'd say that is assuming the extreme unionist position; that there is *only* the United Kingdom, or Great Britain. Those holding such a position are in a very, very small minority. Wikimedia in Scotland seems like a fair balance though. Exactly. Scotland has a well-defined geographic, and cultural, identity. It isn't appeasing nationalists to accept reality. Brian McNeil. -- http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil - Accredited Reporter. Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Question: UK versus regional branding
Wikimedia Alba would at least have the advantage of being a somewhat authentic identity. Yes I'm aware that traditionally any civilised lowlander would rather eat their own kidney than have any dealings with those highland bandits but from what I understand that is no longer the case (bloody meddling English). -- geni Cripes' Ginger; remind this Kentishman to wear two extra strong pairs of pants at the Edinburgh Wikimeet. Maybe we should take along some permanent markers so that highland folks can write in their varied preferred descriptions of their regional identity on their free teeshirt sponsored by WM-UK. ;-) Fae ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Question: UK versus regional branding
On Tue, 2011-09-13 at 12:15 +0100, Thomas Dalton wrote: On 13 September 2011 09:22, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: Are there any views for or against using an image of Wikimedia in Scotland rather than just the WM-UK logo? My concern is that some will resist joining in a UK branded programme but would rush to support a country specific initiative. If it gets better results, we could follow a similar pattern for Wales and avoid appearing to push UK in every document (or teeshirt). Before signing the chapters agreement with the WMF, we were careful to amend it to include permission for us to call ourselves Wikimedia Scotland (etc.) in order to leave our options open for this kind of thing. You could, therefore, use a Wikimedia Scotland logo (with some small print making clear that both Wikimedia Scotland and Wikimedia UK are trading names of Wiki UK Ltd. on anything more important that a t-shirt). The downside of that is that it harms brand recognition, since neither brand is getting used as much as a single brand would be. The only question really is whether the benefit from appeasing Scottish nationalists outweighs the harm from splitting our brand. I don't know enough about Scottish nationalism to know, but I can believe that it would be. A simple illustration of the view from this side of the border was expressed in today's freebie paper, the Metro. Surprisingly, it's near-identical to one I personally used over ten years ago when living in Belgium: Scottish first, European second, and British last. That, as I'd hope people south of the border understand, is because to much of the rest of the world Britain = England. All three of the major UK political parties are looking seriously to, at a minimum, devolve their Scottish presence and give it far more autonomy. Further to that, a recent survey found that over 30% of the population expect to see a truly independent Scotland in their lifetime. Scottish national identity, and political awareness, has come a long, long way since I was a student chucking past-their-sell-by-date duck eggs at the Iron Lady. Brian McNeil. -- http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil - Accredited Reporter. Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Question: UK versus regional branding
On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Brian McNeil brian.mcn...@wikinewsie.org wrote: All three of the major UK political parties are looking seriously to, at a minimum, devolve their Scottish presence and give it far more autonomy. The impression I got, in the case of the tories, was that the Scottish tory MPs wanted to re-brand and distance themselves but their English counterparts weren't keen on them splitting away. I'm not sure that's looking to devolve. But I guess this point is not particularly relevant to Wikimedia UK's merchandising... Bodnotbod ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Question: UK versus regional branding
Devolution is a good idea; though with care taken to make sure links are strong and it is not seen as a division but as a recognition of you're much better placed to organise this area of our outreach. Wikimedia in Scotland is a great idea for focusing the brand. There is no rule that says we have to use a single Wikimedia UK brand, and in the current climate (especially in Scotland) companies are now quite successfully leveraging a Scots targeted sub-brand. If this makes things more palatable north of the border - lets do it :) Tom ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Question: UK versus regional branding
On 13 September 2011 09:22, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: Picking up on Richard's Suggestions for Merchandise, as we are about to start working with Museum Galleries Scotland to drive involvement and a new GLAM events programme, I am considering how to brand it. Are there any views for or against using an image of Wikimedia in Scotland rather than just the WM-UK logo? My concern is that some will resist joining in a UK branded programme but would rush to support a country specific initiative. If it gets better results, we could follow a similar pattern for Wales and avoid appearing to push UK in every document (or teeshirt). Before signing the chapters agreement with the WMF, we were careful to amend it to include permission for us to call ourselves Wikimedia Scotland (etc.) in order to leave our options open for this kind of thing. You could, therefore, use a Wikimedia Scotland logo (with some small print making clear that both Wikimedia Scotland and Wikimedia UK are trading names of Wiki UK Ltd. on anything more important that a t-shirt). The downside of that is that it harms brand recognition, since neither brand is getting used as much as a single brand would be. The only question really is whether the benefit from appeasing Scottish nationalists outweighs the harm from splitting our brand. I don't know enough about Scottish nationalism to know, but I can believe that it would be. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Question: UK versus regional branding
On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 09:22, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: Are there any views for or against using an image of Wikimedia in Scotland rather than just the WM-UK logo? My concern is that some will resist joining in a UK branded programme but would rush to support a country specific initiative. If it gets better results, we could follow a similar pattern for Wales and avoid appearing to push UK in every document (or teeshirt). Reductio ad absurdum: Unless it says Wikimedia East Sussex, I'm not interested! ;-) -- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/ ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Question: UK versus regional branding
If we have a brand that is unacceptable to Scotland (or a portion of it) then do we need to change rather than split our brand? Is it the UK bit? Would the flag be more acceptable or a map of our country (yes I know that gives the Irish a problem). Is it possible to use the Wikimedia logo next to a Scottish logo and fudge the issue? Wikimedia's message is internationalist not nationalist. a thought Roger On 13 September 2011 13:07, Chris Keating chriskeatingw...@gmail.comwrote: Actually the situation with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is quite different. Working in those nations with a UK name and an address in England tends to go down rather less well (particularly if you are dealing with institutions that are part of the national cultural fabric, as we are likely to). My only concern about using different national branding is that it might give an impression of more actual devolution than there genuinely is. One solution to that is to actually have some devolution. If there are people interested in taking responsibility for Scottish cultural outreach, then they could just be given a budget and left to get on with it (with some oversight from the board, of course). Well, indeed. Personally I would like to see that happen, but I think we are at least a year away from it at the moment. Chris ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- Roger Bamkin Chair WMUK http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board 01332 702993 0758 2020815 Google+:Victuallers Skype:Victuallers1 Flickr:Victuallers2 ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Question: UK versus regional branding
On 13 September 2011 14:00, Roger Bamkin victuall...@gmail.com wrote: If we have a brand that is unacceptable to Scotland (or a portion of it) then do we need to change rather than split our brand? Is it the UK bit? Would the flag be more acceptable or a map of our country (yes I know that gives the Irish a problem). We need a name, we can't just have a picture. (Or we'll end up being The Chapter formerly known as Wikimedia UK!) ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Question: UK versus regional branding
On 13 September 2011 13:05, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: One solution to that is to actually have some devolution. If there are people interested in taking responsibility for Scottish cultural outreach, then they could just be given a budget and left to get on with it (with some oversight from the board, of course). An approach that gives you a real headache when someone makes the same request for London (on population grounds it makes sense). There is at the present time nowhere near the the level of activity for that kind of split to make sense. Even if we did have the numbers slits work far better if they cover areas that everyone in that area can access. A group that covered everything from Gretna to Thurso makes little sense. -- geni ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Question: UK versus regional branding
The decision shouldn't be made based on population, but on whether there would be a significant benefit. A Scottish group could be much more effective in Scotland than a UK group. The same isn't true of London. Londoners have a reputation for forgetting the rest of the country exists, but they don't object to it. On Sep 13, 2011 11:28 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 September 2011 13:05, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote: One solution to that is to actually have some devolution. If there are people interested in taking responsibility for Scottish cultural outreach, then they could just be given a budget and left to get on with it (with some oversight from the board, of course). An approach that gives you a real headache when someone makes the same request for London (on population grounds it makes sense). There is at the present time nowhere near the the level of activity for that kind of split to make sense. Even if we did have the numbers slits work far better if they cover areas that everyone in that area can access. A group that covered everything from Gretna to Thurso makes little sense. -- geni ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
