[Wikisource-l] About texts without supporting files and Index: pages
With the deployment of Wikidata it is a good moment to re-examine what Index pages are and what should be their function. The most direct transition to a Wikidata-supported Wikisource could be something like this: https://sites.google.com/site/dacuetu/BookData.pdf That would allow: - to share data book data between Commons, Wikisource and Wikipedia - to update it, when any of the sites has been updated - to facilitate better search functions (like searches by author, or topic, limiting the date range or the language) That would only apply to those texts which use a Index: page, so now the question is, what do we do with books that do not have supporting scans (and therefore no index page)? Some possible options: a) ignore pages without sources and focus only on works with supporting scans b) use ns0 pages also as data containers (instead of, or in addition to Index pages) c) create Index: pages for all works, with or without scans. Use that instead of Template:Textinfo Personally I prefer option c, even if it would require to rename Index: to Source: to make more clear what are those pages, however I would like to hear the opinion of other wikisourcerors about this. Cheers, Micru ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Re: [Wikisource-l] About texts without supporting files and Index: pages
@Alex: but what do you think of storing the source information in Index: pages for all works stored in Wikisource, even if they don't have a supporting scan? That was the original question :) About your proposed library, it would be more useful if it could modify data in Wikidata, not only import it. Besides, if the Wikidata client is installed in Wikisource, the inclusion syntax already takes care of displaying data... Micru On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Alex Brollo alex.bro...@gmail.com wrote: I don't see the need to change deeply Index/ns0 relationship, while I appreciate the idea promote coherence reducing redundance (many years ago I painfully used dBase III - dBase IV and I learned that principle by try and learn). Here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Scribunto/Brainstorming a brief message about relationship among wikidata, commons, wikisource and any other project. Don't follow the link, it's so short that I copy it here (but if you like it, comment it there): Scribunto-Lua and Wikidata I'd like a library to get Wikidata content; it would be a good idea IMHO to access to Wikidata data in plain form, just as such data would be Lua tables/variables. --Alex brollo (talk) 13:06, 10 June 2013 (UTC) If such a Lua library could be built, to import data from wikidata would be as simple, as writing a template, and data will be self-aligned. Alex 2013/6/10 Aarti K. Dwivedi ellydwivedi2...@gmail.com Hi, There was a thread some time ago where there were talks of having books which were born digital. These pages wouldn't have scans. What the 'Index' page would have in these cases is something I am not very sure about. Cheers, Rtdwivedi On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 10:47 PM, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com wrote: With the deployment of Wikidata it is a good moment to re-examine what Index pages are and what should be their function. The most direct transition to a Wikidata-supported Wikisource could be something like this: https://sites.google.com/site/dacuetu/BookData.pdf That would allow: - to share data book data between Commons, Wikisource and Wikipedia - to update it, when any of the sites has been updated - to facilitate better search functions (like searches by author, or topic, limiting the date range or the language) That would only apply to those texts which use a Index: page, so now the question is, what do we do with books that do not have supporting scans (and therefore no index page)? Some possible options: a) ignore pages without sources and focus only on works with supporting scans b) use ns0 pages also as data containers (instead of, or in addition to Index pages) c) create Index: pages for all works, with or without scans. Use that instead of Template:Textinfo Personally I prefer option c, even if it would require to rename Index: to Source: to make more clear what are those pages, however I would like to hear the opinion of other wikisourcerors about this. Cheers, Micru ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l -- Aarti K. Dwivedi ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Re: [Wikisource-l] About texts without supporting files and Index: pages
Simply there is no need to store data twice or more, if they are dinamically imported from wikidata. Such data would be simply generated by a normal template. Something similar to Commons media sharing: most wikipedians but beginners know that when you want to edit a shared media file, you must do you edit in Commons; there's no need to host a media file locally. So, IMHO a good Lua wikidata-reading library could avoid at all to store data in wikisource, or wikipedia, or Commons. Alex 2013/6/10 David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com @Alex: but what do you think of storing the source information in Index: pages for all works stored in Wikisource, even if they don't have a supporting scan? That was the original question :) About your proposed library, it would be more useful if it could modify data in Wikidata, not only import it. Besides, if the Wikidata client is installed in Wikisource, the inclusion syntax already takes care of displaying data... Micru On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Alex Brollo alex.bro...@gmail.comwrote: I don't see the need to change deeply Index/ns0 relationship, while I appreciate the idea promote coherence reducing redundance (many years ago I painfully used dBase III - dBase IV and I learned that principle by try and learn). Here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Scribunto/Brainstorming a brief message about relationship among wikidata, commons, wikisource and any other project. Don't follow the link, it's so short that I copy it here (but if you like it, comment it there): Scribunto-Lua and Wikidata I'd like a library to get Wikidata content; it would be a good idea IMHO to access to Wikidata data in plain form, just as such data would be Lua tables/variables. --Alex brollo (talk) 13:06, 10 June 2013 (UTC) If such a Lua library could be built, to import data from wikidata would be as simple, as writing a template, and data will be self-aligned. Alex 2013/6/10 Aarti K. Dwivedi ellydwivedi2...@gmail.com Hi, There was a thread some time ago where there were talks of having books which were born digital. These pages wouldn't have scans. What the 'Index' page would have in these cases is something I am not very sure about. Cheers, Rtdwivedi On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 10:47 PM, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.comwrote: With the deployment of Wikidata it is a good moment to re-examine what Index pages are and what should be their function. The most direct transition to a Wikidata-supported Wikisource could be something like this: https://sites.google.com/site/dacuetu/BookData.pdf That would allow: - to share data book data between Commons, Wikisource and Wikipedia - to update it, when any of the sites has been updated - to facilitate better search functions (like searches by author, or topic, limiting the date range or the language) That would only apply to those texts which use a Index: page, so now the question is, what do we do with books that do not have supporting scans (and therefore no index page)? Some possible options: a) ignore pages without sources and focus only on works with supporting scans b) use ns0 pages also as data containers (instead of, or in addition to Index pages) c) create Index: pages for all works, with or without scans. Use that instead of Template:Textinfo Personally I prefer option c, even if it would require to rename Index: to Source: to make more clear what are those pages, however I would like to hear the opinion of other wikisourcerors about this. Cheers, Micru ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l -- Aarti K. Dwivedi ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Re: [Wikisource-l] About texts without supporting files and Index: pages
No, it won't be stored in Wikisource, but still there is the need to present the information in a consistent manner. If you want to display the information on ns0, you will end up needing the same fields that the Index: page is using now. So why not to have the same solution for both? It could also be a template with a reduced set of fields that expands to show Template:Book with linked data from Wikidata, no matter if they have supporting scans or not. Micru On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Alex Brollo alex.bro...@gmail.com wrote: Simply there is no need to store data twice or more, if they are dinamically imported from wikidata. Such data would be simply generated by a normal template. Something similar to Commons media sharing: most wikipedians but beginners know that when you want to edit a shared media file, you must do you edit in Commons; there's no need to host a media file locally. So, IMHO a good Lua wikidata-reading library could avoid at all to store data in wikisource, or wikipedia, or Commons. Alex 2013/6/10 David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com @Alex: but what do you think of storing the source information in Index: pages for all works stored in Wikisource, even if they don't have a supporting scan? That was the original question :) About your proposed library, it would be more useful if it could modify data in Wikidata, not only import it. Besides, if the Wikidata client is installed in Wikisource, the inclusion syntax already takes care of displaying data... Micru On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Alex Brollo alex.bro...@gmail.comwrote: I don't see the need to change deeply Index/ns0 relationship, while I appreciate the idea promote coherence reducing redundance (many years ago I painfully used dBase III - dBase IV and I learned that principle by try and learn). Here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Scribunto/Brainstorming a brief message about relationship among wikidata, commons, wikisource and any other project. Don't follow the link, it's so short that I copy it here (but if you like it, comment it there): Scribunto-Lua and Wikidata I'd like a library to get Wikidata content; it would be a good idea IMHO to access to Wikidata data in plain form, just as such data would be Lua tables/variables. --Alex brollo (talk) 13:06, 10 June 2013 (UTC) If such a Lua library could be built, to import data from wikidata would be as simple, as writing a template, and data will be self-aligned. Alex 2013/6/10 Aarti K. Dwivedi ellydwivedi2...@gmail.com Hi, There was a thread some time ago where there were talks of having books which were born digital. These pages wouldn't have scans. What the 'Index' page would have in these cases is something I am not very sure about. Cheers, Rtdwivedi On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 10:47 PM, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.comwrote: With the deployment of Wikidata it is a good moment to re-examine what Index pages are and what should be their function. The most direct transition to a Wikidata-supported Wikisource could be something like this: https://sites.google.com/site/dacuetu/BookData.pdf That would allow: - to share data book data between Commons, Wikisource and Wikipedia - to update it, when any of the sites has been updated - to facilitate better search functions (like searches by author, or topic, limiting the date range or the language) That would only apply to those texts which use a Index: page, so now the question is, what do we do with books that do not have supporting scans (and therefore no index page)? Some possible options: a) ignore pages without sources and focus only on works with supporting scans b) use ns0 pages also as data containers (instead of, or in addition to Index pages) c) create Index: pages for all works, with or without scans. Use that instead of Template:Textinfo Personally I prefer option c, even if it would require to rename Index: to Source: to make more clear what are those pages, however I would like to hear the opinion of other wikisourcerors about this. Cheers, Micru ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l -- Aarti K. Dwivedi ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikisource-l] About texts without supporting files and Index: pages
I'm going to test what you are telling in a real Lua script; as you know,
Lua can read the code of any page with one expensive server function
only, so that a simple {{header|index name}} ns0 template call could read
all the wiki code from index page, parse it, extract all its data content,
and use it to build any html you like. No other field is needed. In
it.wikisource we are testing something more complex, since we are exporting
Index data into a local Lua data module, to be loaded with a mw.loadData
function that is not listed as server-expensive; but I presume that wiki
servers would not be overloaded by *one* server expensive call
If Im not going wrong, such a script could be written tomorrow by a good
Lua programmer I'll need some more time as a beginner. I'll test
a MediaWiki:Proofreadpage_index_template Lua loader parser working into
ns0, just to see if all runs as I guess, then I'll tell you in this thread.
In which wikisource project do you work usually?
Alex
2013/6/11 David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com
No, it won't be stored in Wikisource, but still there is the need to
present the information in a consistent manner.
If you want to display the information on ns0, you will end up needing the
same fields that the Index: page is using now.
So why not to have the same solution for both?
It could also be a template with a reduced set of fields that expands to
show Template:Book with linked data from Wikidata, no matter if they have
supporting scans or not.
Micru
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Alex Brollo alex.bro...@gmail.comwrote:
Simply there is no need to store data twice or more, if they are
dinamically imported from wikidata. Such data would be simply generated by
a normal template. Something similar to Commons media sharing: most
wikipedians but beginners know that when you want to edit a shared media
file, you must do you edit in Commons; there's no need to host a media file
locally.
So, IMHO a good Lua wikidata-reading library could avoid at all to store
data in wikisource, or wikipedia, or Commons.
Alex
2013/6/10 David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.com
@Alex: but what do you think of storing the source information in
Index: pages for all works stored in Wikisource, even if they don't have
a supporting scan?
That was the original question :)
About your proposed library, it would be more useful if it could modify
data in Wikidata, not only import it. Besides, if the Wikidata client is
installed in Wikisource, the inclusion syntax already takes care of
displaying data...
Micru
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Alex Brollo alex.bro...@gmail.comwrote:
I don't see the need to change deeply Index/ns0 relationship, while I
appreciate the idea promote coherence reducing redundance (many years ago
I painfully used dBase III - dBase IV and I learned that principle by try
and learn).
Here:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Scribunto/Brainstorming a
brief message about relationship among wikidata, commons, wikisource and
any other project. Don't follow the link, it's so short that I copy it here
(but if you like it, comment it there):
Scribunto-Lua and Wikidata
I'd like a library to get Wikidata content; it would be a good idea
IMHO to access to Wikidata data in plain form, just as such data would be
Lua tables/variables. --Alex brollo (talk) 13:06, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
If such a Lua library could be built, to import data from wikidata
would be as simple, as writing a template, and data will be self-aligned.
Alex
2013/6/10 Aarti K. Dwivedi ellydwivedi2...@gmail.com
Hi,
There was a thread some time ago where there were talks of having
books which were born digital. These pages wouldn't have scans.
What the 'Index' page would have in these cases is something I am not
very sure about.
Cheers,
Rtdwivedi
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 10:47 PM, David Cuenca dacu...@gmail.comwrote:
With the deployment of Wikidata it is a good moment to re-examine
what Index pages are and what should be their function.
The most direct transition to a Wikidata-supported Wikisource could
be something like this:
https://sites.google.com/site/dacuetu/BookData.pdf
That would allow:
- to share data book data between Commons, Wikisource and Wikipedia
- to update it, when any of the sites has been updated
- to facilitate better search functions (like searches by author, or
topic, limiting the date range or the language)
That would only apply to those texts which use a Index: page, so
now the question is, what do we do with books that do not have supporting
scans (and therefore no index page)?
Some possible options:
a) ignore pages without sources and focus only on works with
supporting scans
b) use ns0 pages also as data containers (instead of, or in addition
to Index pages)
c) create Index: pages for all works, with or without scans. Use
that instead of Template:Textinfo
Personally I prefer option c, even if it
