Re: [Wikitech-l] "Google phases out support for IE6"
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > But seriously. Outright *excluding* these old things shouldn't even be > a consideration. Even a very small audience (like 0.02%) is tens of > thousands of readers. Mediawiki (and the WMF deployment) already has > many features which don't work / don't work well on fairly old > systems, so that bridge has already been crossed, but outright > dropping support for basic use? I have to say, my knee-jerk reaction was "Yes, let's drop IE5 support already", but on consideration I have to agree with you. We shouldn't feel obliged to go out of our way to ensure these browsers still work, but as long as they do mostly work right now, there's no reason to drop support. I've confirmed that with IE50Fixes.css, Monobook is still perfectly usable in IE5 (using ies4linux), but without it, the page collapses to an unusable mess. I don't think reducing clutter is enough of a reason to drop support here. The clutter will go away anyway if/when Vector becomes the default skin -- then IE5 users can still use Monobook. Why not let them? On the other hand, IEMacFixes.css is unused, so I've deleted it in r61787. We do have IE Mac fixes (and I think also fixes for other IE versions) in Monobook's main.css using selector hacks and such, but they're basically harmless, so let's leave them. Let's also re-add the 5.0 and 5.5 stylesheets, unless someone has a better reason than saving two lines in the until we switch to Vector. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] "Google phases out support for IE6"
On 1 February 2010 14:54, Aryeh Gregor wrote: > I don't think reducing clutter is enough of a reason to drop > support here. The clutter will go away anyway if/when Vector becomes > the default skin -- then IE5 users can still use Monobook. Why not > let them? It's not just the clutter, though, it's the effort of maintaining it. The more browsers you support, the more browsers you have to test changes in. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Managing group of pages in white-list
bawolff a écrit :
> I was involved with a wiki that had similar needs. I made a small
> little extension to whitelist a namespace -
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Whitelist_Namespaces Perhaps
> it might be useful to you.
>
> Cheers,
> Bawolff
>
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>
>
Thanks bawolff,
That /almost/ does the trick. But something a little bit more complex was
needed. So I wrote http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Whitelist_Regex.
It adds an extra filtering pass to only whitelist those pages that match a
given
regular expression.
I add the {{Page security extension disclaimer}} template on top of the
description page. But I don't think it adds more security issues that the
"standard" gwWhiteListRead. Anyway, feel free to tell if I'm wrong. Or if there
is any problem, remark, suggestion about this extension!
Best regards,
Sylvain
--
sylv...@chicoree.fr
http://www.chicoree.fr
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Re: [Wikitech-l] "Google phases out support for IE6"
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote: > It's not just the clutter, though, it's the effort of maintaining it. I don't suggest we maintain it. Just leave it alone. If other changes happen to cause IE5 to break, then remove it, but don't remove *existing* IE5 support as long as IE5 still happens to work with no extra effort on our part. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] "Google phases out support for IE6"
On 1 February 2010 15:43, Aryeh Gregor wrote: > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Thomas Dalton > wrote: >> It's not just the clutter, though, it's the effort of maintaining it. > I don't suggest we maintain it. Just leave it alone. If other > changes happen to cause IE5 to break, then remove it, but don't remove > *existing* IE5 support as long as IE5 still happens to work with no > extra effort on our part. Yes. If someone actually notices something bitrotting and they tell us, that's excellent. If they don't, there you go. That said, there must be *someone* on this list bloody-minded enough to test Wikipedia in every possible browser and file bugs and patches accordingly ... - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] "Google phases out support for IE6"
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:28 PM, David Gerard wrote: > On 1 February 2010 15:43, Aryeh Gregor wrote: >> On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Thomas Dalton >> wrote: > >>> It's not just the clutter, though, it's the effort of maintaining it. > >> I don't suggest we maintain it. Just leave it alone. If other >> changes happen to cause IE5 to break, then remove it, but don't remove >> *existing* IE5 support as long as IE5 still happens to work with no >> extra effort on our part. > > > Yes. If someone actually notices something bitrotting and they tell > us, that's excellent. If they don't, there you go. > > That said, there must be *someone* on this list bloody-minded enough > to test Wikipedia in every possible browser and file bugs and patches > accordingly ... It shouldn't be a question of bloddy-mindedness. The rotting of support for a single browser version would potential shut out many tens of thousands of users. It's something worth dedicating some resources to. Simply verifying functionality with all the *popular* browsers and platforms is already burdensome. Doing it well (and consistently) requires some infrastructure, such as a collection of virtualized client machines. Once that kind of infrastructure is in place and well oiled the marginal cost of adding a few more test cases should not be especially great. The core of Wikipedia functionality is plain text with a smattering of images in common formats. I can think of no reason that this basic reading functionality for IE 5.x and the like should go away for the foreseeable future but if nothing else, knowing that it doesn't work would be a good thing. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] "Google phases out support for IE6"
On 1 February 2010 19:46, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:28 PM, David Gerard wrote: >> That said, there must be *someone* on this list bloody-minded enough >> to test Wikipedia in every possible browser and file bugs and patches >> accordingly ... > It shouldn't be a question of bloddy-mindedness. The rotting of > support for a single browser version would potential shut out many > tens of thousands of users. It's something worth dedicating some > resources to. I didn't mean "bloody-minded" as a bad thing - I'm presently compiling Xorg from source on various virtualised OSes just for the fun of it and noting that no-one at all could have done a complete Xorg compile in the last year or they would have noticed all the breakages ... I do think that a horribly under-resourced open source project (most of them) can reasonably say "OK, if people want xxx supported, please step forward" and, a year later, saying "OK, zero people came forward to fix xxx, out it goes." It's a pretty powerful and conclusive argument. > Simply verifying functionality with all the *popular* browsers and > platforms is already burdensome. Doing it well (and consistently) > requires some infrastructure, such as a collection of virtualized > client machines. Once that kind of infrastructure is in place and well > oiled the marginal cost of adding a few more test cases should not be > especially great. This sort of automated test harness must have been built already many times for other sites. Presumably someone with MacOS X 10.4 PowerPC can run IE-Mac in Classic for the sake of this. Anyone? Anyone? That is the necessary condition to solve the problem presented by this thread, and also the sufficient one. - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] "Google phases out support for IE6"
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 21:06, David Gerard wrote: > I didn't mean "bloody-minded" as a bad thing - I'm presently compiling > Xorg from source on various virtualised OSes just for the fun of it > and noting that no-one at all could have done a complete Xorg compile > in the last year or they would have noticed all the breakages ... > > I do think that a horribly under-resourced open source project (most > of them) can reasonably say "OK, if people want xxx supported, please > step forward" and, a year later, saying "OK, zero people came forward > to fix xxx, out it goes." It's a pretty powerful and conclusive > argument. Keith Packard described an interesting approach to this problem (in the context of X, no less!), quoted e.g. on http://lwn.net/Articles/354408/ : 'Keith has figured out a fail-safe method for the removal of cruft from an old code base. The steps, he said, are these: 1. Publish a protocol specification and promise that there will be long-term support. 2. Realize failure. 3. "Accidentally" break things in the code. 4. Let a few years go by, and note that nobody has complained about the broken features. 5. Remove the code since it is obviously not being used. Under this model, the XCMS subsystem was broken for five years without any complaints. The DGA code has recently been seen to have been broken for as long. The technique works, so Keith encouraged the audience to "go forth and introduce bugs."' Maybe we should do the same - introduce bugs that will cause subtle breakages on browsers we'd rather not go out of our way to specifically support any longer, and see if anyone'll actually complain. :) -- schnee ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] "Google phases out support for IE6"
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Schneelocke wrote: > Maybe we should do the same - introduce bugs that will cause subtle > breakages on browsers we'd rather not go out of our way to > specifically support any longer, and see if anyone'll actually > complain. :) People are really bad at complaining, especially web users. We've had prolonged obvious glitches which must have effected hundreds of thousands of people and maybe we get a couple of reports. Users appear to just hit the back button and move on, either they don't care at all or they do care but assume it will be fixed without their intervention. What you propose is not a good policy, at least not in this application space. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] "Google phases out support for IE6"
Aryeh Gregor gmail.com> writes: > I don't think reducing clutter is enough of a reason to drop > support here. The clutter will go away anyway if/when Vector becomes > the default skin -- then IE5 users can still use Monobook. Why not > let them? By the same line of thought, they can use nostalgia or some other old skin. At any rate, few people know there are skins in the first place, and even fewer would be willing to bother with them, so saying that the affected people will switch to other skins and we won't lose that insignificant amount of readership is just self-deception IMO. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] "Google phases out support for IE6"
On 1 February 2010 23:44, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Schneelocke wrote: >> Maybe we should do the same - introduce bugs that will cause subtle >> breakages on browsers we'd rather not go out of our way to >> specifically support any longer, and see if anyone'll actually >> complain. :) > People are really bad at complaining, especially web users. We've had > prolonged obvious glitches which must have effected hundreds of > thousands of people and maybe we get a couple of reports. > Users appear to just hit the back button and move on, either they > don't care at all or they do care but assume it will be fixed without > their intervention. > What you propose is not a good policy, at least not in this application space. Indeed. It works for X because a lot of the cruft was corporate bad ideas from the early 1990s that they foolishly committed to supporting forever, including things that *never worked*, *ever*. Breaking them proved that nobody cared. The Xorg crew are desperately trying to drag a horrible old codebase into the 21st century. The only reason your Linux laptop works reasonably reliably is that the X codebase is very seasoned, not that it's not horrible ;-) Nevertheless, in our space it does require the people who advocate support to do the testing and complaining when it doesn't work, because, observably, no-one else is going to. As I said: applied bloody-mindedness. - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Use IP masquerade (NAT)
Connection time-out occurs when I use IP masquerade in the following sites. - bits.wikimedia.org Why is it? ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] help about the extension about the URL's argument's value transfer to content's area.
help about the extension about the URL's argument's value transfer to content's area: 1, the URL is http://localhost/wiki/index.php?title=ProjectSpin:your_project_name&action=edit&redlink=1 and I want to make the project name auto add into the editor project template's area (your project name) .so how should I do and and which extension I should use? Experience sharing * Edit and Put the Project Experience Sharing information into below link ProjectExperenice:your project name ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
