Re: [Wikitech-l] Thank you to anonymous users
://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/ee/attachments/20140522/876a0a5a/attachment.html -- ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee End of EE Digest, Vol 28, Issue 8 * ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] That you to anonymous users
On Thursday, May 22, 2014, Daniel Friesen dan...@nadir-seen-fire.com wrote: On 2014-05-21, 3:29 PM, Brian Wolff wrote: Fabrice, is this still the case? Are there ways around this? * I suppose session cookies for anons just to possibly thank them is a bit excessive. It sure sounds excessive. Setting a session cookie after an edit has been made by an anon might[1] be quite cheap in reality, or at least cheap enough to justify the cost. Privacy wise it also seems ok, but I might be overlooking some things on that regard as well. --Martijn Don't we already do this upon an anon visiting an edit page? Otherwise standard talk page messages wouldn't really work for anons, as the user wouldn't get past varnish. --bawolff To be clear, we set a cookie on submit of the edit page, whether it results in an edit or not, but not on visit. But that is essentially what Martijn described. ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/] As is, that should be sufficient to do this on a best effort basis, right? If the cookie forces Varnish bypass we could already x thanked this IP address for their edits on y. I can see however that this could have privacy concerns. Delivering the message Martijn Hoekstra thanked this IP address for their edits on porn star y delivered to the wrong person in the same ip isn't great. I'm not sure this is different from talk page messages though, I think it isn't. If we stored more information in the cookie (last n revisionids of edits for some sensible n?) we could make this more reliable. As a session cookie his would leak less privacy sensitive data than is already in the browsers history, and may avoid the above problem. Would this approach be feasible in theory? In practice? --Martijn ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Do we have any data in wikidata / wiktionary that could be used for mechanic translations?
I was looking for a free (possibly open source) provider of automatic translations for my open source application I am working on and quite had troubles finding some. Then I realized we have a project called wiktionary which could possibly (I was assuming it's open dictionary) help me here, but I was quite disappointed as I couldn't find any simple way to perform simple queries like: translate banana from english to czech I think that we could (maybe should in spirit of openness and wikiness) have some wiki-based web application that would serve this purpose - allow people query / translate simple words, but maybe even whole phrases. If anyone could edit this, maybe it would grow up into huge dictionary of all possible or frequent phrases that could be easily translated to any language on world. Do we already have anything like this? ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Do we have any data in wikidata / wiktionary that could be used for mechanic translations?
On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote: I was looking for a free (possibly open source) provider of automatic translations for my open source application I am working on and quite had troubles finding some. Then I realized we have a project called wiktionary which could possibly (I was assuming it's open dictionary) help me here, but I was quite disappointed as I couldn't find any simple way to perform simple queries like: translate banana from english to czech I think that we could (maybe should in spirit of openness and wikiness) have some wiki-based web application that would serve this purpose - allow people query / translate simple words, but maybe even whole phrases. If anyone could edit this, maybe it would grow up into huge dictionary of all possible or frequent phrases that could be easily translated to any language on world. Do we already have anything like this? It doesn't exist yet but it is on the longer-term (aka 2015 earliest) plan for the Wikidata team. The current proposal is at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Do we have any data in wikidata / wiktionary that could be used for mechanic translations?
I am happy to know that we are doing at least something on this :) hopefully a first step to some more complex solution? Because from the proposal you linked I can't see how would I easily translate apple to different language. I know I can perform a number of lookups and queries to accomplish that, but IMHO it should be easier. On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 5:47 PM, Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de wrote: On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote: I was looking for a free (possibly open source) provider of automatic translations for my open source application I am working on and quite had troubles finding some. Then I realized we have a project called wiktionary which could possibly (I was assuming it's open dictionary) help me here, but I was quite disappointed as I couldn't find any simple way to perform simple queries like: translate banana from english to czech I think that we could (maybe should in spirit of openness and wikiness) have some wiki-based web application that would serve this purpose - allow people query / translate simple words, but maybe even whole phrases. If anyone could edit this, maybe it would grow up into huge dictionary of all possible or frequent phrases that could be easily translated to any language on world. Do we already have anything like this? It doesn't exist yet but it is on the longer-term (aka 2015 earliest) plan for the Wikidata team. The current proposal is at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Do we have any data in wikidata / wiktionary that could be used for mechanic translations?
On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 5:59 PM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote: I am happy to know that we are doing at least something on this :) hopefully a first step to some more complex solution? Because from the proposal you linked I can't see how would I easily translate apple to different language. I know I can perform a number of lookups and queries to accomplish that, but IMHO it should be easier. Yes this is the groundwork for potentially more complex translation systems later. If/when/how that'll be done I have no idea. But this is the next step on the way ;-) Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Do we have any data in wikidata / wiktionary that could be used for mechanic translations?
Just to extend the idea little bit so that it's easier to answer do we have this? (I am pretty sure we don't): This service should be able to do things like this: TRANSLATE hello there, how are you FROM english TO chinese (preudo-query language is just for this example so that it's clear what I want it to do) and it /should/ 1. look up whole sentence hello there, how are you in database, if there is no translation for whole this sentence, it should: 2. split the sentence (by comma) and look only for hello there and how are you, if there is no translation for these it should: 3. split it by words and return mechanic translation for every word (which is least wanted but better than nothing) if people had possibility to insert translate words, phrases, sentences, I think this would be awesome application as lot of people would probably insert incredible amount of data and translations. I don't really know if this is something what wikimedia movement should provide or support, but anyway, it would be nice to have open source project :) I know it would be kind of reinventing of google translate, but that, no matter how nice it is, isn't free for developers (api's are paid) and isn't very open (source code is closed and user ability to edit database is nowhere near to what people can do on real wikis, like wikipedia) On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 5:41 PM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote: I was looking for a free (possibly open source) provider of automatic translations for my open source application I am working on and quite had troubles finding some. Then I realized we have a project called wiktionary which could possibly (I was assuming it's open dictionary) help me here, but I was quite disappointed as I couldn't find any simple way to perform simple queries like: translate banana from english to czech I think that we could (maybe should in spirit of openness and wikiness) have some wiki-based web application that would serve this purpose - allow people query / translate simple words, but maybe even whole phrases. If anyone could edit this, maybe it would grow up into huge dictionary of all possible or frequent phrases that could be easily translated to any language on world. Do we already have anything like this? ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Do we have any data in wikidata / wiktionary that could be used for mechanic translations?
On 05/22/2014 05:41 PM, Petr Bena wrote: I was looking for a free (possibly open source) provider of automatic translations for my open source application I am working on and quite had troubles finding some. Then I realized we have a project called wiktionary which could possibly (I was assuming it's open dictionary) help me here, but I was quite disappointed as I couldn't find any simple way to perform simple queries like: There are several open-source machine translation projects. They are either rule-based or statistics-based. One of the rule-based projects is Apertium. When you start from zero, building a rule-based system gives you a useful system quite fast, especially if the two languages are similar. A statistics-based system (such as Google Translate) requires enormous amounts of data to become useful. It's not something that you can start as a subproject within Wiktionary, not even as a separate WMF project. It's a very large task. One naive approach is to base a statistics-based machine translator (SMT) on the European Union's freely available parallel text corpus. When you try to translate Finnish terve (which means: hello!) into English in such a system, it will say health, since the same word also means health, and EU texts only talk about healthcare, never hello. -- Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Do we have any data in wikidata / wiktionary that could be used for mechanic translations?
If you Petr were going to take a rules' based approach to what you've outlined above, and use the already existing Wikidata interlinguality, which I think is based around the 'item with a label' (think a Wikipedia Encyclopedia article - is this correct?), and build on Wiktionary, could one 'reduce' Wikidata's intelinguality from an 'item' to a 'word' (and also co-anticipate voice, smartphones, and extensibility / scalability to all 7,106+ languages, for example, as well)? What else would be needed, and what would some of the initial challenges to beginning this way? Cheers, Scott (I write the above in the context of developing wiki CC MIT OCW-centric WUaS for free online university degrees, and which plans to be in all 7106+ languages http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Languages as schools, and develop a universal translator - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/WUaS_Universal_Translator - as well). On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Lars Aronsson l...@aronsson.se wrote: On 05/22/2014 05:41 PM, Petr Bena wrote: I was looking for a free (possibly open source) provider of automatic translations for my open source application I am working on and quite had troubles finding some. Then I realized we have a project called wiktionary which could possibly (I was assuming it's open dictionary) help me here, but I was quite disappointed as I couldn't find any simple way to perform simple queries like: There are several open-source machine translation projects. They are either rule-based or statistics-based. One of the rule-based projects is Apertium. When you start from zero, building a rule-based system gives you a useful system quite fast, especially if the two languages are similar. A statistics-based system (such as Google Translate) requires enormous amounts of data to become useful. It's not something that you can start as a subproject within Wiktionary, not even as a separate WMF project. It's a very large task. One naive approach is to base a statistics-based machine translator (SMT) on the European Union's freely available parallel text corpus. When you try to translate Finnish terve (which means: hello!) into English in such a system, it will say health, since the same word also means health, and EU texts only talk about healthcare, never hello. -- Lars Aronsson (l...@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- http://scottmacleod.com/worlduniversityandschool.htm This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this email message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and destroy/delete all copies of the transmittal. Thank you. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Do we have any data in wikidata / wiktionary that could be used for mechanic translations?
On 05/22/2014 08:41 AM, Petr Bena wrote: I was looking for a free (possibly open source) provider of automatic translations for my open source application I am working on and quite had troubles finding some. Then I realized we have a project called wiktionary which could possibly (I was assuming it's open dictionary) help me here, but I was quite disappointed as I couldn't find any simple way to perform simple queries like: translate banana from english to czech I think that we could (maybe should in spirit of openness and wikiness) have some wiki-based web application that would serve this purpose - allow people query / translate simple words, but maybe even whole phrases. If anyone could edit this, maybe it would grow up into huge dictionary of all possible or frequent phrases that could be easily translated to any language on world. Do we already have anything like this? This is currently being developed: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation It will provide all the tools needed to translate wiki articles, including dictionary lookup. The back-end service interfaces will be fairly generic will use open source tools like dictd and apertium, so might be useful for non-wiki projects. You can also use existing commercial APIs of course. Gabriel ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Do we have any data in wikidata / wiktionary that could be used for mechanic translations?
this isn't about translation of content of current wikimedia projects, but more about creating a generic tool that anyone could use to translate anything, so not really what [[Content translation]] describes On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Gabriel Wicke gwi...@wikimedia.org wrote: This is currently being developed: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation It will provide all the tools needed to translate wiki articles, including dictionary lookup. The back-end service interfaces will be fairly generic will use open source tools like dictd and apertium, so might be useful for non-wiki projects. Yes, this statistics based system would be more like what I meant, but keep in mind that if it was open, so that anyone could contribute on that database, just like wikipedia is, it would probably collect enormous amount of data pretty quickly, just as wikipedia did. On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 6:03 PM, Lars Aronsson l...@aronsson.se wrote: A statistics-based system (such as Google Translate) requires enormous amounts of data to become useful. It's not something that you can start as a subproject within Wiktionary, not even as a separate WMF project. It's a very large task. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Do we have any data in wikidata / wiktionary that could be used for mechanic translations?
Great ... looks like MediaWiki Content translation and Wiktionary may provide another important approach to a possible Universal Translator ... :) Scott On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:48 AM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote: this isn't about translation of content of current wikimedia projects, but more about creating a generic tool that anyone could use to translate anything, so not really what [[Content translation]] describes On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Gabriel Wicke gwi...@wikimedia.org wrote: This is currently being developed: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Content_translation It will provide all the tools needed to translate wiki articles, including dictionary lookup. The back-end service interfaces will be fairly generic will use open source tools like dictd and apertium, so might be useful for non-wiki projects. Yes, this statistics based system would be more like what I meant, but keep in mind that if it was open, so that anyone could contribute on that database, just like wikipedia is, it would probably collect enormous amount of data pretty quickly, just as wikipedia did. On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 6:03 PM, Lars Aronsson l...@aronsson.se wrote: A statistics-based system (such as Google Translate) requires enormous amounts of data to become useful. It's not something that you can start as a subproject within Wiktionary, not even as a separate WMF project. It's a very large task. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- http://scottmacleod.com/worlduniversityandschool.htm This email is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this email message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and destroy/delete all copies of the transmittal. Thank you. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] FlaggedRevs gone from mediawiki.org
I've just undone the mistake I made almost 5 years ago getting FlaggedRevs turned on for mw.org with no consensus[0]. The average review time was 58 days. There were over 50 pages pending review (I didn't bother paging) The vast majority of edits are harmless/productive and don't need review. You probably noticed me removing you from the editor and/or reviewer groups since they're unused now. Since FlaggedRevs is gone you shouldn't notice any net permission changes. -Chad [0] I'm not joking. There was a thread where there was little/no consensus. I then went on IRC and asked Brion and he said sure. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] FlaggedRevs gone from mediawiki.org
On 22 May 2014 16:17, Chad innocentkil...@gmail.com wrote: I've just undone the mistake I made almost 5 years ago getting FlaggedRevs turned on for mw.org with no consensus[0]. Thank you Chad; I'd been meaning to do this for a long while! J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Upcoming jQuery upgrade (breaking change)
On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Krinkle krinklem...@gmail.com wrote: A rough timeline: * 12 May 2014 (1.24wmf4 [9]): Phase 1 – Instrumentation and logging starts. This will run for 4 weeks (until June 9). * 19 May 2014 (1.24wmf5): Phase 2 – Upgrade and Migrate. This will run for 3 weeks (upto June 9). The instrumentation continues during this period. * 1 June 2014 (1.24wmf7) Finalise upgrade. (...) Q: When will the upgrade happen? A: In the next few weeks, once we are happy that the impact is reasonably low. An update will be sent to wikitech-l just before this is done as a final reminder. This will be well before the MediaWiki 1.24 branch point for extension authors looking to maintain compatibility. I'm not sure this decision makes sense. This would mean that 1.23 shipped with jQuery 1.8 and 1.24 will ship with jQuery 1.11, without the backwards compatibility plugin. I don't see how this helps extension authors, and it will be a nuisance for wiki webmasters who will have to deal with the breakage of all the not-so-well maintained extensions, without any transition period where they could identify and fix/replace them, when they do the 1.23 - 1.24 upgrade. There should be a major version which includes the migration plugin. (This is a separate matter from whn the migration plugin should be removed from WMF-maintained sites. It adds to the JS overhead, even if just a little, and it might make sense to put jQuery Migrate behind a config switch which is enabled by default but disabled on Wikimedia sites after June 1. But the next tarball should contain the migration plugin and enable it by default.) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Upcoming jQuery upgrade (breaking change)
On 22 May 2014 18:11, Gergo Tisza gti...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 9:29 AM, Krinkle krinklem...@gmail.com wrote: Q: When will the upgrade happen? A: In the next few weeks, once we are happy that the impact is reasonably low. An update will be sent to wikitech-l just before this is done as a final reminder. This will be well before the MediaWiki 1.24 branch point for extension authors looking to maintain compatibility. I'm not sure this decision makes sense. This would mean that 1.23 shipped with jQuery 1.8 and 1.24 will ship with jQuery 1.11, without the backwards compatibility plugin. I don't see how this helps extension authors, and it will be a nuisance for wiki webmasters who will have to deal with the breakage of all the not-so-well maintained extensions, without any transition period where they could identify and fix/replace them, when they do the 1.23 - 1.24 upgrade. There should be a major version which includes the migration plugin. Possibly, though I would suggest that it is not loaded by default. Frankly if an extension's authors have abandoned their extension to the extent that after several years' clear warning and a six month-long notice period they still didn't do a relatively trivial set of fixes, then it's reasonable to make it necessary for sysadmins to make a (small) effort acknowledging that this code is toxic and should only be used if you're willing to wade into here be dragons territory. Indeed, I created this patch for this purpose, which retains jQuery.Migrate (with the intent to remove it for MediaWiki 1.25): https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/133719/ (This is a separate matter from whn the migration plugin should be removed from WMF-maintained sites. It adds to the JS overhead, even if just a little, and it might make sense to put jQuery Migrate behind a config switch which is enabled by default but disabled on Wikimedia sites after June 1. But the next tarball should contain the migration plugin and enable it by default.) I disagree, for the reasons stated above; the inverse makes more sense. J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, VisualEditor Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
