Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
2012/1/2 K. Peachey p858sn...@gmail.com:
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 5:13 PM, M. Williamson node...@gmail.com wrote:
Correction: Wikipedia is the largest part of the projects. Why do people
always want to pretend otherwise, or lament that fact?
Never said otherwise, Huib just said Wikipedia was one of many
WikiMedia projects.
Now, now, let's not feed the troll, shall we?
On topic:
As such a message is a clear candidate for l10n, I suggested that
MediaWiki should have a string for that, which defaults to
{{SITENAME}} Mail. What do you guys think?
Strainu
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
I totally agree with Strainu.
2012/1/3 Strainu strain...@gmail.com:
2012/1/2 K. Peachey p858sn...@gmail.com:
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 5:13 PM, M. Williamson node...@gmail.com wrote:
Correction: Wikipedia is the largest part of the projects. Why do people
always want to pretend otherwise, or lament that fact?
Never said otherwise, Huib just said Wikipedia was one of many
WikiMedia projects.
Now, now, let's not feed the troll, shall we?
On topic:
As such a message is a clear candidate for l10n, I suggested that
MediaWiki should have a string for that, which defaults to
{{SITENAME}} Mail. What do you guys think?
Strainu
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
Why do email notifications from Wikipedia have the sender as
MediaWiki Mail? Most Wikipedia users probably don't know what
MediaWiki is. I suggest it be changed to Wikipedia or Wikipedia
notifications or something like that.
I agree with the {{SITENAME}} suggestion, and would prefer to omit
Mail. (The fact that it's an email is self-evident.)
See also:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/New_Editor_Engagement/Email_notifications
--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
Am 03.01.2012 18:40, schrieb Erik Moeller:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com
wrote:
Why do email notifications from Wikipedia have the sender as
MediaWiki Mail? Most Wikipedia users probably don't know what
MediaWiki is. I suggest it be changed to Wikipedia or Wikipedia
notifications or something like that.
I agree with the {{SITENAME}} suggestion, and would prefer to omit
Mail. (The fact that it's an email is self-evident.)
See also:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/New_Editor_Engagement/Email_notifications
See also
http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/UserMailer.php?revision=104208view=markup
and change line 195 $headers['X-Mailer']='MediaWiki mailer';
to something else
signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Thomas Gries m...@tgries.de wrote: See also http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/UserMailer.php?revision=104208view=markup and change line 195 $headers['X-Mailer']='MediaWiki mailer'; to something else I don't see any reason to change that; X-Mailer is a low-level header which says things like Outlook, and we would expect it to say the low-level software used if it's there at all. Users will never see it unless they go picking at the raw headers of the mail. -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
Agree++; X-Mailer is not intended to be user-visible. It is most often used for readers to adjust for display quirks these days, but also to inform MTAs of behavior quirks. This should be the same across all instances. In fact, it probably shouldn't be user-configurable. On 1/3/12 10:56 AM, Brion Vibber wrote: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 10:16 AM, Thomas Griesm...@tgries.de wrote: See also http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/UserMailer.php?revision=104208view=markup and change line 195 $headers['X-Mailer']='MediaWiki mailer'; to something else I don't see any reason to change that; X-Mailer is a low-level header which says things like Outlook, and we would expect it to say the low-level software used if it's there at all. Users will never see it unless they go picking at the raw headers of the mail. -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Brandon Harris, Senior Designer, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
2012/1/3 Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com
wrote:
Why do email notifications from Wikipedia have the sender as
MediaWiki Mail? Most Wikipedia users probably don't know what
MediaWiki is. I suggest it be changed to Wikipedia or Wikipedia
notifications or something like that.
I agree with the {{SITENAME}} suggestion, and would prefer to omit
Mail. (The fact that it's an email is self-evident.)
I wouldn't be so fast in leaving only the sitename as sender name - a
mail from Wikipedia would raise my (manual) spam alarms, just like
emails from the Federal Bureau of Investigations or from [X] Bank.
Strainu
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
On 3 January 2012 20:32, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: I wouldn't be so fast in leaving only the sitename as sender name - a mail from Wikipedia would raise my (manual) spam alarms, just like emails from the Federal Bureau of Investigations or from [X] Bank. Why is Wikipedia more suspicious than Wikipedia mail? ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
2012/1/3 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com: Why is Wikipedia more suspicious than Wikipedia mail? I really don't know, it's just how some people that I know (including myself) react. For instance, I recently fell for a spam email disguised as a Linkedin message. The sender was John Doe via linkedin.com - if it had been Linkedin.com I doubt I would have opened it. Perhaps Wikipedia user mail or Wikipedia email system would be even more descriptive without being too long? Strainu ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
Am 03.01.2012 19:56, schrieb Brion Vibber: http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/UserMailer.php?revision=104208view=markup line 195 $headers['X-Mailer']='MediaWiki mailer'; I don't see any reason to change that; X-Mailer is a low-level header which says things like Outlook, and we would expect it to say the low-level software used if it's there at all. Users will never see it unless they go picking at the raw headers of the mail. Yes, I am also not in favour of changing anything with the low-level header. Perhaps the original requester wanted a change of the sender addresses in LocalSettings.php: $wgEmergencyContact = sender e-mail; $wgPasswordSender = sender e-mail; Email notifications are sent with the $wgPasswordSender address an name (see line 622 in http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/includes/UserMailer.php?revision=104208view=markup $adminAddress=newMailAddress($wgPasswordSender,$wgPasswordSenderName); signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Thomas Gries m...@tgries.de wrote: Perhaps the original requester wanted a change of the sender addresses in LocalSettings.php: $wgEmergencyContact = sender e-mail; $wgPasswordSender = sender e-mail; Yes we've already established this; that's the only thing under discussion here. -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: I wouldn't be so fast in leaving only the sitename as sender name - a mail from Wikipedia would raise my (manual) spam alarms, just like emails from the Federal Bureau of Investigations or from [X] Bank. Facebook's email messages come from Facebook. Twitter's email messages come from Twitter. Google Plus email messages come from Google+. OpenTable email messages come from OpenTable. Netflix email messages come from Netflix. Kickstarter email messages come from Kickstarter. Quora email messages come from Quora. Not every wheel needs to be reinvented. :) -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
Ideally X-Mailer (by convention) should be something like:
*MediaWiki/{version}*
In fact better would be
*MediaWiki/{version} **PHP/{version} *
But it probably doesn't matter too much :)
Tom
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
2012/1/3 Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: I wouldn't be so fast in leaving only the sitename as sender name - a mail from Wikipedia would raise my (manual) spam alarms, just like emails from the Federal Bureau of Investigations or from [X] Bank. Facebook's email messages come from Facebook. Twitter's email messages come from Twitter. Google Plus email messages come from Google+. Flickr's email messages come from Flickr mail Linkedin's email messages come from different senders - by far the best solution. (Installed) Wordpress' emails come from different senders AOL's (does anyone remember them?) emails come from different senders. OpenTable email messages come from OpenTable. Netflix email messages come from Netflix. Kickstarter email messages come from Kickstarter. Quora email messages come from Quora. I'll have to take your word on that, I don't use those services. :) Not every wheel needs to be reinvented. :) If you're not sure it's round, you're better off building it again or it may crash you car. The point is there really isn't a rule on this matter, it is just a question of preference or marketing. Strainu ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 2:15 PM, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: Linkedin's email messages come from different senders - by far the best solution. LinkedIn's notifications, honestly, look very messy to me. There are at least three different senders: 1) Real Name via LinkedIn, 2) LinkedIn Updates, 3) LinkedIn Today. Category 1) is used for system notifications about people inviting you to connect with them. This seems somewhat misleading. The message pretends that it's personal, but in actual fact it's an automatically generated message. But, at least the LinkedIn messages that have the Real Name via LinkedIn format always include an actual quoted message by Real Name, even if it's the default I'd like to add you to my personal network message. In our context, it's important to distinguish between user-to-user e-mail mediated by MediaWiki, and system notifications sent by MediaWiki. User-to-user email uses the sender's email address in the From: line and should continue to do so. System notifications should be identified through the site name. This will make it more understandable that replying to the message will not be a useful way to action the notification, and it makes it clear that the message does not contain any personal note from a different user. Adding the qualifier mail to a system notification is not in fact helpful. We're self-evidently dealing with an e-mail. The qualifier may in fact be confusing in that it suggests a user-to-user interaction (You've got mail) when in fact it's a system-to-user interaction. If there is to be a qualifier, it should be something like updates, but I don't believe a qualifier is necessary for notifications, and most mainstream websites don't appear to use one. Erik -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
I really like the idea of [being able to] include the user performing the action in the From: A generic from is a bit useless when you receive hundreds of email from MediaWiki Mail (was w...@wikimedia.org before 2011-2-14), although CR being the worst abuser, could also get its own configuration... ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
Original Message -
From: Strainu strain...@gmail.com
To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 3:32:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
2012/1/3 Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org:
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Dalton
thomas.dal...@gmail.com wrote:
Why do email notifications from Wikipedia have the sender as
MediaWiki Mail? Most Wikipedia users probably don't know what
MediaWiki is. I suggest it be changed to Wikipedia or
Wikipedia
notifications or something like that.
I agree with the {{SITENAME}} suggestion, and would prefer to omit
Mail. (The fact that it's an email is self-evident.)
I wouldn't be so fast in leaving only the sitename as sender name - a
mail from Wikipedia would raise my (manual) spam alarms, just like
emails from the Federal Bureau of Investigations or from [X] Bank.
For my part, I believe that Mediawiki Mail is proper, as it's mail *generated
by the named program* (note: not site).
If you reverse it to Wikipedia/media, though, it's from the site, not the
program, and the expected usage indeed changes not to include Mail.
Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
___
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
Brion Vibber br...@pobox.com writes: How about just setting it to the sitename? 'Wikipedia', 'Wikinews', etc. As, uh, suggested already above. :) Because that is too much thinking while I'm on vacation? ;) Maarten Dammers, who originally filed the bug, has updated it now with your suggestion. Mark. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 5:13 PM, M. Williamson node...@gmail.com wrote: Correction: Wikipedia is the largest part of the projects. Why do people always want to pretend otherwise, or lament that fact? Never said otherwise, Huib just said Wikipedia was one of many WikiMedia projects. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
Why do email notifications from Wikipedia have the sender as MediaWiki Mail? Most Wikipedia users probably don't know what MediaWiki is. I suggest it be changed to Wikipedia or Wikipedia notifications or something like that. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
That we need to change in Wikimedia. Wikipedia is just a small part of the projects. 2011/12/31, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com: Why do email notifications from Wikipedia have the sender as MediaWiki Mail? Most Wikipedia users probably don't know what MediaWiki is. I suggest it be changed to Wikipedia or Wikipedia notifications or something like that. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Verzonden vanaf mijn mobiele apparaat Kind regards, Huib Laurens WickedWay.nl Webhosting the wicked way. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
On 31 December 2011 18:24, Huib Laurens sterke...@gmail.com wrote: That we need to change in Wikimedia. Wikipedia is just a small part of the projects. Notifications from Wikipedia should say Wikipedia, notifications from Wikinews should say Wikinews, etc.. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
Does MediaWiki Mail even make sense as the default for $wgPasswordSenderName? Is there a reason not to have it default to something with $wgSitename? ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com writes: Why do email notifications from Wikipedia have the sender as MediaWiki Mail? Most Wikipedia users probably don't know what MediaWiki is. I suggest it be changed to Wikipedia or Wikipedia notifications or something like that. Please see https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32770 where Sam Reed says If we decide what we want [$wgPasswordSenderName] to be, we can configure it. If you want us to set it, post what you think the From addresses should be to the bug. Or file a new bug for setting it. Mark. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Email notification sender
On Sat, Dec 31, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Mark A. Hershberger mhershber...@wikimedia.org wrote: Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com writes: Why do email notifications from Wikipedia have the sender as MediaWiki Mail? Most Wikipedia users probably don't know what MediaWiki is. I suggest it be changed to Wikipedia or Wikipedia notifications or something like that. Please see https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32770 where Sam Reed says If we decide what we want [$wgPasswordSenderName] to be, we can configure it. If you want us to set it, post what you think the From addresses should be to the bug. Or file a new bug for setting it. How about just setting it to the sitename? 'Wikipedia', 'Wikinews', etc. As, uh, suggested already above. :) -- brion ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
