Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[James Forrester]

On 30 April 2013 12:30, Claudia Müller-Birn  wrote:

> Dear Roan,
>
> Thank you very much for your detailed explanations. I appreciate it very
> much.
>
> Even though, I do not fully agree with all your design decisions
> (regarding two different feedback mechanisms), they are understandable from
> your position (as far as I can anticipate it).
>
> Last comment on this, wouldn't be great to integrate both mechanisms in a
> way. I mean that the user can simply decide whether and when she wants to
> send some additional information (about the browser used etc.) by just
> selecting a checkbox (that explains the difference). So in every situation
> (before and after editing) the user can provide some feedback. The user can
> easily and understandable (at least I believe) decide about the extent of
> the feedback. Maybe is this (=my) feedback useful for the
> beta-testing-version :)
>

​Thanks Claudia; we agree that having two feedback mechanisms is
confusing​, and we intend to remove the "something is wrong!" feedback link
from within the diff quite soon (ahead of the beta version, certainly),
once we are confident that Parsoid will never or very rarely corrupt pages
on save. We should be able to take normal on-wiki feedback and bug reports
alone as enough to debug what has gone wrong, and this will remove the
source of confusion.

Yours,
-- 
James D. Forrester
Product Manager, VisualEditor
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Claudia Müller-Birn]

Dear Roan,

Thank you very much for your detailed explanations. I appreciate it very much. 

Even though, I do not fully agree with all your design decisions (regarding two 
different feedback mechanisms), they are understandable from your position (as 
far as I can anticipate it).

Last comment on this, wouldn't be great to integrate both mechanisms in a way. 
I mean that the user can simply decide whether and when she wants to send some 
additional information (about the browser used etc.) by just selecting a 
checkbox (that explains the difference). So in every situation (before and 
after editing) the user can provide some feedback. The user can easily and 
understandable (at least I believe) decide about the extent of the feedback. 
Maybe is this (=my) feedback useful for the beta-testing-version :)

Claudia


On Apr 29, 2013, at 9:52 AM, Roan Kattouw  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Claudia Müller-Birn
>  wrote:
>> Hi James,
>> 
>> Thanks for clarifying.
>> 
>> I am just wondering why the two feedback mechanisms send to different 
>> targets which I personally find a bit confusing. What has been the decision 
>> behind it?
>> 
> They are different feedback mechanisms with different privacy
> expectations. The "Leave feedback" flow collects general, free-form
> feedback about the editor and posts it publicly. Only the text the
> user types into the form is collected and published. The "Something is
> wrong" flow is intended to collect data about cases where users see a
> diff they don't expect. It collects a lot of information to help us
> figure out what happened and why; this not only helps us find bugs,
> but it also collects the information we need to track it down and fix
> it. Because the information collected includes the text the user was
> attempting to save but apparently chose not to save, we treat it as
> private information.
> 
> So one flow collects general feedback and the text field is all we
> collect, whereas the other collects data about a specific failure and
> the text field just serves as a footnote on a lot of technical data we
> collect along with it and is narrowly focused on the specific problem
> at hand: what did the user do to trigger the bug. In the general
> feedback flow, we communicate to the user that what they submit will
> be public, and it's very easy to explain what will be public (the text
> they put into the field). In the bad diff report flow, the data we
> collect (editor contents with an unsubmitted edit, among other things)
> is a bit more privacy-sensitive and it's hard to explain to the user
> what we'll be collecting.
> 
>> And why is the "Something is wrong" or "Etwas ist schief gelaufen" a 
>> privately sent feedback? Wouldn't be great to have here an open process and 
>> not sending the feedback to a black hole?
>> 
> This flow is mostly for reporting bugs, and the form asks them to
> provide details about the specific bug they encountered rather than
> general feedback. These comments wouldn't be particularly useful
> without the associated debugging data. The debugging data isn't
> particularly interesting to the general public, only to developers
> (that's not an argument for why it shouldn't be public, just one for
> why it doesn't hurt too much that it's not public). We feel like it
> would be against the spirit if not the letter of the privacy policy to
> publish this data without telling the user what we're publishing
> (especially since unsaved editor contents are privacy-sensitive: there
> is no expectation they'll be published because they're unsaved). But
> it's also difficult to explain to the user what exactly it is that we
> would be publishing.
> 
> Contrary to the confusion and other reports on this thread, I can
> assure you that the data submitted through the "Report problem"
> interface isn't sent to a black hole. It's being collected by the
> Parsoid team, and they have in the recent past analyzed it and
> discovered bugs in both Parsoid and VE.
> 
> Roan
> 
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Roan Kattouw]

On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 4:36 AM, David Gerard  wrote:
> Cool, thank you :-) Every time I've used it lately, it's messing with
> the  tags. Just now I literally moved a comma and it decided
> messing with the  tags would be just the thing to do ...
>
Yeah, sorry about that :( . There was a bug where Parsoid duplicated
 tags; Lukas's screenshot showed that too. The Parsoid team
deployed a fix for this just now, so the duplication bug should be
fixed now. There are rumors of other issues with  tags, we're
looking into those still.

Roan

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[David Gerard]

On 29 April 2013 12:01, Subramanya Sastry  wrote:

> As Roan clarified in his emails on this thread, the debugging data collected
> is sent to the Parsoid server and is stored there.  We (the Parsoid team) do
> look at it and use that for debugging and fixing bugs.


Cool, thank you :-) Every time I've used it lately, it's messing with
the  tags. Just now I literally moved a comma and it decided
messing with the  tags would be just the thing to do ...


- d.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Subramanya Sastry]

On 04/29/2013 03:34 PM, David Gerard wrote:

On 27 April 2013 09:25, David Gerard  wrote:
...

That doesn't quite address the issue: surely it's a problem if it's
claiming to take feedback but the feedback is going nowhere.
(I've been trying it and flagging seriously buggy behaviour in said
comment form, and would be most annoyed to find it was just being
flushed.)

Could someone please clarify:

When you use the visual editor, and it makes weird changes in the
diff, and you click "there's a problem" and note this in the feedback
form - where does this end up? Does anyone look at it?


Hi David,

As Roan clarified in his emails on this thread, the debugging data 
collected is sent to the Parsoid server and is stored there.  We (the 
Parsoid team) do look at it and use that for debugging and fixing bugs.


Thanks,
Subbu.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Lukas Benedix]

Am Mo 29.04.2013 10:09, schrieb Mathieu Stumpf:
We should care because we care about all potential contributors, and 
we don't want to make discrimination based on gender, sexual 
orientation nor the browser available to them. 


SCNR:

The VisualEditor is not working in IE6, which is used by 25%* of the 
chinese internet user…


* [http://www.ie6countdown.com/]

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[David Gerard]

On 27 April 2013 09:25, David Gerard  wrote:
> On 26 April 2013 15:42, K. Peachey  wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Lukas Benedix
>>  wrote:

>>> You can share your feedback on
>>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback
>>> but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report
>>> problem' is not working for me.

>> You can report it straight into Bugzilla, As mentioned at the top of
>> that page. Here is the direct link
>> 

> That doesn't quite address the issue: surely it's a problem if it's
> claiming to take feedback but the feedback is going nowhere.
> (I've been trying it and flagging seriously buggy behaviour in said
> comment form, and would be most annoyed to find it was just being
> flushed.)


Could someone please clarify:

When you use the visual editor, and it makes weird changes in the
diff, and you click "there's a problem" and note this in the feedback
form - where does this end up? Does anyone look at it?


- d.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Mathieu Stumpf]

Le 2013-04-26 17:17, Gerard Meijssen a écrit :

Hoi,
Why use such an old browser and why should anybody care if it works 
...

Current version of Firefox is 20.0.1
Thanks,
 Gerard


Because that's the version which is installed on one of the workstation 
I use and for which I have no required privileges to install anything 
else. We should care because we care about all potential contributors, 
and we don't want to make discrimination based on gender, sexual 
orientation nor the browser available to them.



On 26 April 2013 14:52, Mathieu Stumpf 
wrote:



Le 2013-04-26 14:19, Bartosz Dziewoński a écrit :

 It's currently disabled on IE<9 and Opera. You can test it on them 
by

using the ?vewhitelist=1 parameter (but don't expect much). I'm
currently working on Opera support myself (as a volunteer).



I'm using firefex 8.0.1. It works with the parameter work around. By 
the
way, is there some roadmap somewhere for this specific extension? It 
looks
like there's not yet feature to edit tables and I would be 
interested to

know what's planed on this subject.




2013/4/26, Mathieu Stumpf :


Le 2013-04-25 19:09, James Forrester a écrit :

On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester 


wrote:

TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next 
week

as an
opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis 
about

this
and help get the software translated.



This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, 
hi,
ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions 
of

how
we can improve the VisualEditor for you.



I opted in, but I can't see anything else than the classical edit
option. I tryed on severa pages I never visited before and also to
refresh my browser cache, but steal no new option. Is there a URL 
param

I could try to see if it at least it works this way?

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Roan Kattouw]

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Lukas Benedix
 wrote:
> I'm not a non-tech-user, but I don't like using bugzilla.
> here is the new bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/47755
>
Per my earlier post, I've closed that bug as INVALID (as feedback
collection does actually work), with a reference to the bug for making
it less sketchy.

> There are lines marked as changed in the diff that I never touched:
> http://lbenedix.monoceres.uberspace.de/screenshots/tlv5b64zcj_(2013-04-26_23.41.46).png
> 
>
> Is this a (known) bug?
>
Not that I'm aware of. Looks like a bug in reference serialization.
Could you tell me which page you were editing there?

Roan

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Roan Kattouw]

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Claudia Müller-Birn
 wrote:
> Hi James,
>
> Thanks for clarifying.
>
> I am just wondering why the two feedback mechanisms send to different targets 
> which I personally find a bit confusing. What has been the decision behind it?
>
They are different feedback mechanisms with different privacy
expectations. The "Leave feedback" flow collects general, free-form
feedback about the editor and posts it publicly. Only the text the
user types into the form is collected and published. The "Something is
wrong" flow is intended to collect data about cases where users see a
diff they don't expect. It collects a lot of information to help us
figure out what happened and why; this not only helps us find bugs,
but it also collects the information we need to track it down and fix
it. Because the information collected includes the text the user was
attempting to save but apparently chose not to save, we treat it as
private information.

So one flow collects general feedback and the text field is all we
collect, whereas the other collects data about a specific failure and
the text field just serves as a footnote on a lot of technical data we
collect along with it and is narrowly focused on the specific problem
at hand: what did the user do to trigger the bug. In the general
feedback flow, we communicate to the user that what they submit will
be public, and it's very easy to explain what will be public (the text
they put into the field). In the bad diff report flow, the data we
collect (editor contents with an unsubmitted edit, among other things)
is a bit more privacy-sensitive and it's hard to explain to the user
what we'll be collecting.

> And why is the "Something is wrong" or "Etwas ist schief gelaufen" a 
> privately sent feedback? Wouldn't be great to have here an open process and 
> not sending the feedback to a black hole?
>
This flow is mostly for reporting bugs, and the form asks them to
provide details about the specific bug they encountered rather than
general feedback. These comments wouldn't be particularly useful
without the associated debugging data. The debugging data isn't
particularly interesting to the general public, only to developers
(that's not an argument for why it shouldn't be public, just one for
why it doesn't hurt too much that it's not public). We feel like it
would be against the spirit if not the letter of the privacy policy to
publish this data without telling the user what we're publishing
(especially since unsaved editor contents are privacy-sensitive: there
is no expectation they'll be published because they're unsaved). But
it's also difficult to explain to the user what exactly it is that we
would be publishing.

Contrary to the confusion and other reports on this thread, I can
assure you that the data submitted through the "Report problem"
interface isn't sent to a black hole. It's being collected by the
Parsoid team, and they have in the recent past analyzed it and
discovered bugs in both Parsoid and VE.

Roan

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Roan Kattouw]

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 9:42 AM, James Forrester
 wrote:
> The "report a problem" link sends the report privately to a Parsoid
> server. From your video, it appears that the API call to do so failed
> - could you file a Bugzilla item with more details so we can
> investigate?
>
It's sending information to parsoid.wmflabs.org, and for now that's
intended behavior. We may change the way this information is collected
later, but for now it lives on labs, where the Parsoid developers
collect and analyze the information.

Even though Lukas's video shows a failed XHR request in the console,
the data was most likely submitted successfully. This is because we
use cross-domain AJAX to POST the data, and jQuery's attempt to read
the response (which is empty anyway) is blocked because of same-origin
restrictions, which causes the error you're seeing. At this point the
information has already been submitted, though, so the error is a red
herring. This behavior is clearly suboptimal and misleading, but it's
a minor issue at this point. It's tracked as
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42974 .

Roan

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[David Gerard]

On 26 April 2013 15:42, K. Peachey  wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Lukas Benedix
>  wrote:

>> You can share your feedback on
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback
>> but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report
>> problem' is not working for me.

> You can report it straight into Bugzilla, As mentioned at the top of
> that page. Here is the direct link
> 


That doesn't quite address the issue: surely it's a problem if it's
claiming to take feedback but the feedback is going nowhere.

(I've been trying it and flagging seriously buggy behaviour in said
comment form, and would be most annoyed to find it was just being
flushed.)


- d.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Claudia Müller-Birn]

On Apr 27, 2013, at 12:05 AM, Lukas Benedix  wrote:

> I'm not a non-tech-user, but I don't like using bugzilla.
> here is the new bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/47755
> 
> 
> btw:
> 
> While testing the "black-hole" feedback-mechanism I found another issue with 
> VisualEditor.
> 
> There are lines marked as changed in the diff that I never touched:
> http://lbenedix.monoceres.uberspace.de/screenshots/tlv5b64zcj_(2013-04-26_23.41.46).png
>  
> 
> 
> Is this a (known) bug?

It is :) Just read the pop up that appears when editing the page. clmb

> 
> LB
> 
> 
> Am Fr 26.04.2013 20:49, schrieb Claudia Müller-Birn:
>> On Apr 26, 2013, at 4:42 PM, K. Peachey  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Lukas Benedix
>>>  wrote:
 ...
 You can share your feedback on
 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback
 but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report
 problem' is not working for me.
>>> 
>>> You can report it straight into Bugzilla, As mentioned at the top of
>>> that page. Here is the direct link
>>> 
>> Well, that is correct. But my major concern are the non-tech-users and 
>> getting their opinion on the visual editor.
>> 
>> As a non-experienced user I might click the link… and then I most likely 
>> have to create an account. Even though I take the time doing so, I have to 
>> understand the various drop-down menus in Bugzilla - challenging. I guess, I 
>> would be stressed out and give up before sending the feedback, which is a 
>> pity. Don't get me wrong, I think the visual editor is great. I am just 
>> thinking aloud and wondering about this and that...
>> 
>> Anyway, Bugzilla works great for me :)
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Lukas Benedix]

I'm not a non-tech-user, but I don't like using bugzilla.
here is the new bug: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/47755


btw:

While testing the "black-hole" feedback-mechanism I found another issue 
with VisualEditor.


There are lines marked as changed in the diff that I never touched:
http://lbenedix.monoceres.uberspace.de/screenshots/tlv5b64zcj_(2013-04-26_23.41.46).png 



Is this a (known) bug?

LB


Am Fr 26.04.2013 20:49, schrieb Claudia Müller-Birn:

On Apr 26, 2013, at 4:42 PM, K. Peachey  wrote:


On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Lukas Benedix
 wrote:

...
You can share your feedback on
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback
but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report
problem' is not working for me.


You can report it straight into Bugzilla, As mentioned at the top of
that page. Here is the direct link


Well, that is correct. But my major concern are the non-tech-users and getting 
their opinion on the visual editor.

As a non-experienced user I might click the link… and then I most likely have 
to create an account. Even though I take the time doing so, I have to 
understand the various drop-down menus in Bugzilla - challenging. I guess, I 
would be stressed out and give up before sending the feedback, which is a pity. 
Don't get me wrong, I think the visual editor is great. I am just thinking 
aloud and wondering about this and that...

Anyway, Bugzilla works great for me :)



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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Claudia Müller-Birn]

On Apr 26, 2013, at 4:42 PM, K. Peachey  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Lukas Benedix
>  wrote:
>> ...
>> You can share your feedback on
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback
>> but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report
>> problem' is not working for me.
> 
> 
> You can report it straight into Bugzilla, As mentioned at the top of
> that page. Here is the direct link
> 

Well, that is correct. But my major concern are the non-tech-users and getting 
their opinion on the visual editor. 

As a non-experienced user I might click the link… and then I most likely have 
to create an account. Even though I take the time doing so, I have to 
understand the various drop-down menus in Bugzilla - challenging. I guess, I 
would be stressed out and give up before sending the feedback, which is a pity. 
Don't get me wrong, I think the visual editor is great. I am just thinking 
aloud and wondering about this and that...

Anyway, Bugzilla works great for me :)


> 
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Claudia Müller-Birn]

Hi James,

Thanks for clarifying. 

I am just wondering why the two feedback mechanisms send to different targets 
which I personally find a bit confusing. What has been the decision behind it? 

And why is the "Something is wrong" or "Etwas ist schief gelaufen" a privately 
sent feedback? Wouldn't be great to have here an open process and not sending 
the feedback to a black hole?

An additionally question, what would be if the German community 
decides/wishes/asks for having a slightly different visual editor as for 
example the English Wikipedia community. Would that be possible at all? I could 
not find any possibilities to adapt the editor to the local needs on the 
extension page… just out of curiosity…

Claudia


On Apr 26, 2013, at 6:51 PM, James Forrester  wrote:

> The feedback tool ("Leave feedback" or "Rückmeldungen hinterlassen")
> posts your feedback to a page on-wiki (for dewiki, this was
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback but has
> now been moved to
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/R%C3%BCckmeldungen
> this morning). The Parsoid bug tool ("Something is wrong" or "Etwas
> ist schief gelaufen") posts privately to a server so we can work out
> what went wrong.
> 
> J.
> 
> On 25 April 2013 10:27, Claudia Müller-Birn  wrote:
>> Hi James,
>> 
>> Great news!
>> 
>> Is the already given feedback publicly available? If yes, where.
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> Claudia
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 7:09 PM, James Forrester  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester  wrote:
 TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an
 opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this
 and help get the software translated.
>>> 
>>> This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi,
>>> ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how
>>> we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
>>> 
>>> Yours,
>>> --
>>> James D. Forrester
>>> Product Manager, VisualEditor
>>> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>>> 
>>> jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> James D. Forrester
> Product Manager, VisualEditor
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> 
> jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[James Forrester]

The feedback tool ("Leave feedback" or "Rückmeldungen hinterlassen")
posts your feedback to a page on-wiki (for dewiki, this was
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback but has
now been moved to
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/R%C3%BCckmeldungen
this morning). The Parsoid bug tool ("Something is wrong" or "Etwas
ist schief gelaufen") posts privately to a server so we can work out
what went wrong.

J.

On 25 April 2013 10:27, Claudia Müller-Birn  wrote:
> Hi James,
>
> Great news!
>
> Is the already given feedback publicly available? If yes, where.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Claudia
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2013, at 7:09 PM, James Forrester  wrote:
>
>> On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester  wrote:
>>> TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an
>>> opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this
>>> and help get the software translated.
>>
>> This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi,
>> ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how
>> we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
>>
>> Yours,
>> --
>> James D. Forrester
>> Product Manager, VisualEditor
>> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>>
>> jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
>>
>> ___
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>
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Product Manager, VisualEditor
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[James Forrester]

On 26 April 2013 06:23, Lukas Benedix  wrote:
> I'm pretty sure the feedback is stored nowhere...
>
> I just made a test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzt_2CBfTNI
>
>
> You can share your feedback on
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback
> but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report
> problem' is not working for me.

The "report a problem" link sends the report privately to a Parsoid
server. From your video, it appears that the API call to do so failed
- could you file a Bugzilla item with more details so we can
investigate?

The "leave feedback" link is the normal MediaWiki core tool that posts
the contents of your feedback to the bottom of a target local wiki
page as a new section.

J.
--
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Product Manager, VisualEditor
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[James Forrester]

On 26 April 2013 05:52, Mathieu Stumpf  wrote:
> Le 2013-04-26 14:19, Bartosz Dziewoński a écrit :
>
>> It's currently disabled on IE<9 and Opera. You can test it on them by
>> using the ?vewhitelist=1 parameter (but don't expect much). I'm
>> currently working on Opera support myself (as a volunteer).
>
> I'm using firefex 8.0.1. It works with the parameter work around.

Yes, it's enabled for MSIE 9+, Firefox 11+, Iceweasel 10+, Safari 5+
and Chrome 19+. If anyone wants to test against earlier versions of
these browsers (or other ones) and can help identify what
incompatibilities the browser has with standard HTML/JS and ways
around them, we'd love to add more (like Matma Rex is doing -
thanks!).

> By the
> way, is there some roadmap somewhere for this specific extension? It looks
> like there's not yet feature to edit tables and I would be interested to
> know what's planed on this subject.

There's notes on what does and doesn't work in the Quarterly Review
slides 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:VisualEditor-Parsoid_-_2012-13_Q3_quarterly_review_deck.pdf
- slide 9 has what work for the alpha, and slide 12 has what we expect
won't work by the beta.

J.
--
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Product Manager, VisualEditor
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Antoine Musso]

Le 26/04/13 15:23, Lukas Benedix a écrit :
> I just made a test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzt_2CBfTNI

Seems the VisualEditor feedback is sent to parsoid.wmflabs.org which is
most probably wrong.

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Bartosz Dziewoński]

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 14:52:22 +0200, Mathieu Stumpf 
 wrote:


I'm using firefex 8.0.1.


Only Firefox >= 11 is supported (but I have no idea why; I've just checked the 
source code to find out).

Here's the current full compatibility map for other browsers, if anyone's 
interested (it might change at any time):

{
msie: [['>=', 9]],
firefox: [['>=', 11]],
iceweasel: [['>=', 10]],
safari: [['>=', 5]],
chrome: [['>=', 19]],
opera: false,
netscape: false,
blackberry: false
}

("false" means all versions are blacklisted.)


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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
Why use such an old browser and why should anybody care if it works ...
Current version of Firefox is 20.0.1
Thanks,
 Gerard


On 26 April 2013 14:52, Mathieu Stumpf wrote:

> Le 2013-04-26 14:19, Bartosz Dziewoński a écrit :
>
>  It's currently disabled on IE<9 and Opera. You can test it on them by
>> using the ?vewhitelist=1 parameter (but don't expect much). I'm
>> currently working on Opera support myself (as a volunteer).
>>
>
> I'm using firefex 8.0.1. It works with the parameter work around. By the
> way, is there some roadmap somewhere for this specific extension? It looks
> like there's not yet feature to edit tables and I would be interested to
> know what's planed on this subject.
>
>
>
>> 2013/4/26, Mathieu Stumpf :
>>
>>> Le 2013-04-25 19:09, James Forrester a écrit :
>>>
 On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester 
 wrote:

> TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week
> as an
> opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about
> this
> and help get the software translated.
>

 This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi,
 ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of
 how
 we can improve the VisualEditor for you.

>>>
>>> I opted in, but I can't see anything else than the classical edit
>>> option. I tryed on severa pages I never visited before and also to
>>> refresh my browser cache, but steal no new option. Is there a URL param
>>> I could try to see if it at least it works this way?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Association Culture-Libre
>>> http://www.culture-libre.org/
>>>
>>> __**_
>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>>
>>
> --
> Association Culture-Libre
> http://www.culture-libre.org/
>
> __**_
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[K. Peachey]

On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Lukas Benedix
 wrote:
> ...
> You can share your feedback on
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback
> but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 'report
> problem' is not working for me.


You can report it straight into Bugzilla, As mentioned at the top of
that page. Here is the direct link


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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Lukas Benedix]

I'm pretty sure the feedback is stored nowhere...

I just made a test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzt_2CBfTNI


You can share your feedback on 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:VisualEditor/Feedback
but 'visual editor' -> 'review and save' -> 'something is wrong' -> 
'report problem' is not working for me.


Lukas

Am Do 25.04.2013 19:27, schrieb Claudia Müller-Birn:

Hi James,

Great news!

Is the already given feedback publicly available? If yes, where.

Thank you.

Claudia


On Apr 25, 2013, at 7:09 PM, James Forrester  wrote:


On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester  wrote:

TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an
opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this
and help get the software translated.

This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi,
ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how
we can improve the VisualEditor for you.

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
Product Manager, VisualEditor
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Mathieu Stumpf]

Le 2013-04-26 14:19, Bartosz Dziewoński a écrit :

It's currently disabled on IE<9 and Opera. You can test it on them by
using the ?vewhitelist=1 parameter (but don't expect much). I'm
currently working on Opera support myself (as a volunteer).


I'm using firefex 8.0.1. It works with the parameter work around. By 
the way, is there some roadmap somewhere for this specific extension? It 
looks like there's not yet feature to edit tables and I would be 
interested to know what's planed on this subject.




2013/4/26, Mathieu Stumpf :

Le 2013-04-25 19:09, James Forrester a écrit :

On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester 
wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next 
week

as an
opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis 
about

this
and help get the software translated.


This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, 
hi,

ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of
how
we can improve the VisualEditor for you.


I opted in, but I can't see anything else than the classical edit
option. I tryed on severa pages I never visited before and also to
refresh my browser cache, but steal no new option. Is there a URL 
param

I could try to see if it at least it works this way?

--
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http://www.culture-libre.org/

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Bartosz Dziewoński]

It's currently disabled on IE<9 and Opera. You can test it on them by
using the ?vewhitelist=1 parameter (but don't expect much). I'm
currently working on Opera support myself (as a volunteer).

2013/4/26, Mathieu Stumpf :
> Le 2013-04-25 19:09, James Forrester a écrit :
>> On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester 
>> wrote:
>>> TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week
>>> as an
>>> opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about
>>> this
>>> and help get the software translated.
>>
>> This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi,
>> ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of
>> how
>> we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
>
> I opted in, but I can't see anything else than the classical edit
> option. I tryed on severa pages I never visited before and also to
> refresh my browser cache, but steal no new option. Is there a URL param
> I could try to see if it at least it works this way?
>
> --
> Association Culture-Libre
> http://www.culture-libre.org/
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Amir E. Aharoni]

2013/4/26 Mathieu Stumpf :
> In the french version, the label of the checkbox to activate it have to
> internal links to none-existant pages (red links). The wiki equivalent text
> is :
>
>Activer VisualEditor (seulement dans les espaces de noms [[Wikipédia:Main
> namespace|principal]] et [[Espace de nom utilisateur|utilisateur]])

That's because this message assumed the existence of these pages in
the target wiki:

* 
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Main_namespace&redirect=no
* 
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:User_namespace&redirect=no

The English Wikipedia has them, but many wikis don't. You can simply
create them and write some documentation about namespaces. In the
Hebrew Wikipedia I just redirected them both to the general help page
about namespaces.

The currently defined names for French are [[Project:Espace de noms
utilisateur]] and [[Project:Espace de noms principal]].

--
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http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Mathieu Stumpf]

Le 2013-04-25 19:09, James Forrester a écrit :
On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester  
wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week 
as an
opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about 
this

and help get the software translated.


This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi,
ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of 
how

we can improve the VisualEditor for you.


I opted in, but I can't see anything else than the classical edit 
option. I tryed on severa pages I never visited before and also to 
refresh my browser cache, but steal no new option. Is there a URL param 
I could try to see if it at least it works this way?


--
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Mathieu Stumpf]

Le 2013-04-25 19:09, James Forrester a écrit :
On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester  
wrote:
TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week 
as an
opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about 
this

and help get the software translated.


This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi,
ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of 
how

we can improve the VisualEditor for you.


In the french version, the label of the checkbox to activate it have to 
internal links to none-existant pages (red links). The wiki equivalent 
text is :


   Activer VisualEditor (seulement dans les espaces de noms 
[[Wikipédia:Main namespace|principal]] et [[Espace de nom 
utilisateur|utilisateur]])


Otherwise I didn't test it yet, but thank you. :)



Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
Product Manager, VisualEditor
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[Claudia Müller-Birn]

Hi James,

Great news! 

Is the already given feedback publicly available? If yes, where. 

Thank you.

Claudia


On Apr 25, 2013, at 7:09 PM, James Forrester  wrote:

> On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester  wrote:
>> TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an
>> opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this
>> and help get the software translated.
> 
> This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi,
> ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how
> we can improve the VisualEditor for you.
> 
> Yours,
> --
> James D. Forrester
> Product Manager, VisualEditor
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> 
> jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester
> 
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Deploying alpha of VisualEditor to non-English Wikipedias

[James Forrester]

On 18 April 2013 17:32, James Forrester  wrote:
> TL;DR: VisualEditor will be deployed on 14 new Wikipedias next week as an
> opt-in alpha. Your assitance is requested to inform your wikis about this
> and help get the software translated.

This is now done (for de, nl, fr, it, ru, es, sv, pl, ja, ar, he, hi,
ko, and zh). Grateful for feedback, bug reports and suggestions of how
we can improve the VisualEditor for you.

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
Product Manager, VisualEditor
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester

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