Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/8 Rosanne DiMesio : > On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 11:20:26 +1100 > Ben Klein wrote: > >> 2009/3/8 Austin English : >> > On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Ben Klein wrote: >> >> 2009/3/8 Austin English : >> >>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:46 PM, James McKenzie >> >>> wrote: >> Codeweavers supports Wine and provides a lot of assistance with fixing >> bugs. I have not seen a Cedega provide a patch in a long time. >> >> James McKenzie >> >>> >> >>> Yes, they do, but it's NOT wine. If someone mentions an app works well >> >>> in Cedega/Crossover/PlayonLinux, fine. If they submit a howto/test >> >>> data for Cedega/Crossover/PlayonLinux, it should be deleted. >> >>> >> >>> Crossover is not special in that regard. >> >> >> >> Austin, did you see James's earlier post? I've quoted it for you: >> > >> > I did, just clarifying my view. >> > >> >> 2009/3/8 James McKenzie : >> >>> Ben Klein wrote: >> [cut to conserve space and to get to the point] >> appdb.winehq.org is for Wine application test data. If a user submits >> test data that says "Garbage" in Wine, with an additional comment that >> says "I was able to get this working in Crossover Office", I don't >> have a problem. However, if the test data is entirely for Crossover, >> or RecatOS, Cedega or WineX for that matter, it does not belong on >> AppDB. >> >> >>> I agree with the use of the Wine Applications Database with these >> >>> restrictions. I don't want to see products listed that do not conform >> >>> to the same standards as Wine. >> >> >> >> James and I are on agreement on this point. >> >> >> "Rating: Garbage >> What works: Installer >> What doesn't work: Starting the game >> What wasn't tested: N/A >> Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" >> ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or >> ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the >> test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) ) >> >> >>> I think this is the point. Crossover, yes. The rest of the stuff, no. >> >>> And this is exactly what I was talking about. If it does not work in >> >>> Wine, rating: Garbage, not Plat, Gold or Bronze. >> >>> >> >>> James McKenzie >> >> >> >> I believe we can allow Crossover to be a special case if a user opts >> >> to mention it in the "Additional comments" section. "It works better >> >> in Crossover Office" is perfectly acceptable to me, given the amount >> >> of work Codeweavers put in to Wine, but I won't say the same for other >> >> Wine project forks (Cedega, ReactOS) that are a world apart and don't >> >> contribute back to upstream. >> >> >> > >> > Yes, they do. But their product isn't Wine, and shouldn't be treated >> > special IMHO. They have ads on Winehq, as well as thank you's in a few >> > other places. To a user that just wants their app to work, it makes no >> > difference if Wine is broken but Cedega and Crossover aren't. They >> > just want it to work. There's no reason to allow those applications >> > working in Crossover to get that information, but not Cedega. >> >> The AppDB admins should probably try to come to some consensus over >> this point. I've made my views clear, so if any other admins want to >> comment ... :) I'm certainly happy to go with majority rule. >> >> > I think Crossover should be treated the same as any other third party app, > but I have no objection to any of them being mentioned under additional > comments in test reports, so long as the test report itself is for Wine. I > also don't care if users pitch those products in the general comments > section. In both cases whatever is said is clearly just the opinion of the > individual who posted them. > > My concern is with maintainer-written howtos that call for PlayOnLinux or > Ies4Linux, because they mislead users into believing they are supported here. > Is there a consensus that they don't belong in the AppDB? FWIW, my vote is they don't belong. 2009/3/8 Vincent Povirk : > On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Rosanne DiMesio wrote: >> My concern is with maintainer-written howtos that call for PlayOnLinux or >> Ies4Linux, because they mislead users into believing they are supported >> here. Is there a consensus that they don't belong in the AppDB? > > Or maybe they should be using winetricks instead? Where both appropriate and required, yes, but it should be up to the maintainers to write HOWTOs that refer to winetricks as necessary. Admins will seldom be able to correct instructions that refer to unsupported scripts etc.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Rosanne DiMesio wrote: > My concern is with maintainer-written howtos that call for PlayOnLinux or > Ies4Linux, because they mislead users into believing they are supported here. > Is there a consensus that they don't belong in the AppDB? Or maybe they should be using winetricks instead?
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 11:20:26 +1100 Ben Klein wrote: > 2009/3/8 Austin English : > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Ben Klein wrote: > >> 2009/3/8 Austin English : > >>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:46 PM, James McKenzie > >>> wrote: > Codeweavers supports Wine and provides a lot of assistance with fixing > bugs. I have not seen a Cedega provide a patch in a long time. > > James McKenzie > >>> > >>> Yes, they do, but it's NOT wine. If someone mentions an app works well > >>> in Cedega/Crossover/PlayonLinux, fine. If they submit a howto/test > >>> data for Cedega/Crossover/PlayonLinux, it should be deleted. > >>> > >>> Crossover is not special in that regard. > >> > >> Austin, did you see James's earlier post? I've quoted it for you: > > > > I did, just clarifying my view. > > > >> 2009/3/8 James McKenzie : > >>> Ben Klein wrote: > [cut to conserve space and to get to the point] > appdb.winehq.org is for Wine application test data. If a user submits > test data that says "Garbage" in Wine, with an additional comment that > says "I was able to get this working in Crossover Office", I don't > have a problem. However, if the test data is entirely for Crossover, > or RecatOS, Cedega or WineX for that matter, it does not belong on > AppDB. > > >>> I agree with the use of the Wine Applications Database with these > >>> restrictions. I don't want to see products listed that do not conform > >>> to the same standards as Wine. > >> > >> James and I are on agreement on this point. > >> > "Rating: Garbage > What works: Installer > What doesn't work: Starting the game > What wasn't tested: N/A > Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" > ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or > ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the > test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) ) > > >>> I think this is the point. Crossover, yes. The rest of the stuff, no. > >>> And this is exactly what I was talking about. If it does not work in > >>> Wine, rating: Garbage, not Plat, Gold or Bronze. > >>> > >>> James McKenzie > >> > >> I believe we can allow Crossover to be a special case if a user opts > >> to mention it in the "Additional comments" section. "It works better > >> in Crossover Office" is perfectly acceptable to me, given the amount > >> of work Codeweavers put in to Wine, but I won't say the same for other > >> Wine project forks (Cedega, ReactOS) that are a world apart and don't > >> contribute back to upstream. > >> > > > > Yes, they do. But their product isn't Wine, and shouldn't be treated > > special IMHO. They have ads on Winehq, as well as thank you's in a few > > other places. To a user that just wants their app to work, it makes no > > difference if Wine is broken but Cedega and Crossover aren't. They > > just want it to work. There's no reason to allow those applications > > working in Crossover to get that information, but not Cedega. > > The AppDB admins should probably try to come to some consensus over > this point. I've made my views clear, so if any other admins want to > comment ... :) I'm certainly happy to go with majority rule. > > I think Crossover should be treated the same as any other third party app, but I have no objection to any of them being mentioned under additional comments in test reports, so long as the test report itself is for Wine. I also don't care if users pitch those products in the general comments section. In both cases whatever is said is clearly just the opinion of the individual who posted them. My concern is with maintainer-written howtos that call for PlayOnLinux or Ies4Linux, because they mislead users into believing they are supported here. Is there a consensus that they don't belong in the AppDB? -- Rosanne DiMesio
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/8 Austin English : > On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Ben Klein wrote: >> 2009/3/8 Austin English : >>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:46 PM, James McKenzie >>> wrote: Codeweavers supports Wine and provides a lot of assistance with fixing bugs. I have not seen a Cedega provide a patch in a long time. James McKenzie >>> >>> Yes, they do, but it's NOT wine. If someone mentions an app works well >>> in Cedega/Crossover/PlayonLinux, fine. If they submit a howto/test >>> data for Cedega/Crossover/PlayonLinux, it should be deleted. >>> >>> Crossover is not special in that regard. >> >> Austin, did you see James's earlier post? I've quoted it for you: > > I did, just clarifying my view. > >> 2009/3/8 James McKenzie : >>> Ben Klein wrote: [cut to conserve space and to get to the point] appdb.winehq.org is for Wine application test data. If a user submits test data that says "Garbage" in Wine, with an additional comment that says "I was able to get this working in Crossover Office", I don't have a problem. However, if the test data is entirely for Crossover, or RecatOS, Cedega or WineX for that matter, it does not belong on AppDB. >>> I agree with the use of the Wine Applications Database with these >>> restrictions. I don't want to see products listed that do not conform >>> to the same standards as Wine. >> >> James and I are on agreement on this point. >> "Rating: Garbage What works: Installer What doesn't work: Starting the game What wasn't tested: N/A Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) ) >>> I think this is the point. Crossover, yes. The rest of the stuff, no. >>> And this is exactly what I was talking about. If it does not work in >>> Wine, rating: Garbage, not Plat, Gold or Bronze. >>> >>> James McKenzie >> >> I believe we can allow Crossover to be a special case if a user opts >> to mention it in the "Additional comments" section. "It works better >> in Crossover Office" is perfectly acceptable to me, given the amount >> of work Codeweavers put in to Wine, but I won't say the same for other >> Wine project forks (Cedega, ReactOS) that are a world apart and don't >> contribute back to upstream. >> > > Yes, they do. But their product isn't Wine, and shouldn't be treated > special IMHO. They have ads on Winehq, as well as thank you's in a few > other places. To a user that just wants their app to work, it makes no > difference if Wine is broken but Cedega and Crossover aren't. They > just want it to work. There's no reason to allow those applications > working in Crossover to get that information, but not Cedega. The AppDB admins should probably try to come to some consensus over this point. I've made my views clear, so if any other admins want to comment ... :) I'm certainly happy to go with majority rule.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Ben Klein wrote: > 2009/3/8 Austin English : >> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:46 PM, James McKenzie >> wrote: >>> Codeweavers supports Wine and provides a lot of assistance with fixing >>> bugs. I have not seen a Cedega provide a patch in a long time. >>> >>> James McKenzie >> >> Yes, they do, but it's NOT wine. If someone mentions an app works well >> in Cedega/Crossover/PlayonLinux, fine. If they submit a howto/test >> data for Cedega/Crossover/PlayonLinux, it should be deleted. >> >> Crossover is not special in that regard. > > Austin, did you see James's earlier post? I've quoted it for you: I did, just clarifying my view. > 2009/3/8 James McKenzie : >> Ben Klein wrote: >>> [cut to conserve space and to get to the point] >>> appdb.winehq.org is for Wine application test data. If a user submits >>> test data that says "Garbage" in Wine, with an additional comment that >>> says "I was able to get this working in Crossover Office", I don't >>> have a problem. However, if the test data is entirely for Crossover, >>> or RecatOS, Cedega or WineX for that matter, it does not belong on >>> AppDB. >>> >> I agree with the use of the Wine Applications Database with these >> restrictions. I don't want to see products listed that do not conform >> to the same standards as Wine. > > James and I are on agreement on this point. > >>> "Rating: Garbage >>> What works: Installer >>> What doesn't work: Starting the game >>> What wasn't tested: N/A >>> Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" >>> ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or >>> ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the >>> test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) ) >>> >> I think this is the point. Crossover, yes. The rest of the stuff, no. >> And this is exactly what I was talking about. If it does not work in >> Wine, rating: Garbage, not Plat, Gold or Bronze. >> >> James McKenzie > > I believe we can allow Crossover to be a special case if a user opts > to mention it in the "Additional comments" section. "It works better > in Crossover Office" is perfectly acceptable to me, given the amount > of work Codeweavers put in to Wine, but I won't say the same for other > Wine project forks (Cedega, ReactOS) that are a world apart and don't > contribute back to upstream. > Yes, they do. But their product isn't Wine, and shouldn't be treated special IMHO. They have ads on Winehq, as well as thank you's in a few other places. To a user that just wants their app to work, it makes no difference if Wine is broken but Cedega and Crossover aren't. They just want it to work. There's no reason to allow those applications working in Crossover to get that information, but not Cedega. -- -Austin
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/8 Austin English : > On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:46 PM, James McKenzie > wrote: >> Codeweavers supports Wine and provides a lot of assistance with fixing >> bugs. I have not seen a Cedega provide a patch in a long time. >> >> James McKenzie > > Yes, they do, but it's NOT wine. If someone mentions an app works well > in Cedega/Crossover/PlayonLinux, fine. If they submit a howto/test > data for Cedega/Crossover/PlayonLinux, it should be deleted. > > Crossover is not special in that regard. Austin, did you see James's earlier post? I've quoted it for you: 2009/3/8 James McKenzie : > Ben Klein wrote: >> [cut to conserve space and to get to the point] >> appdb.winehq.org is for Wine application test data. If a user submits >> test data that says "Garbage" in Wine, with an additional comment that >> says "I was able to get this working in Crossover Office", I don't >> have a problem. However, if the test data is entirely for Crossover, >> or RecatOS, Cedega or WineX for that matter, it does not belong on >> AppDB. >> > I agree with the use of the Wine Applications Database with these > restrictions. I don't want to see products listed that do not conform > to the same standards as Wine. James and I are on agreement on this point. >> "Rating: Garbage >> What works: Installer >> What doesn't work: Starting the game >> What wasn't tested: N/A >> Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" >> ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or >> ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the >> test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) ) >> > I think this is the point. Crossover, yes. The rest of the stuff, no. > And this is exactly what I was talking about. If it does not work in > Wine, rating: Garbage, not Plat, Gold or Bronze. > > James McKenzie I believe we can allow Crossover to be a special case if a user opts to mention it in the "Additional comments" section. "It works better in Crossover Office" is perfectly acceptable to me, given the amount of work Codeweavers put in to Wine, but I won't say the same for other Wine project forks (Cedega, ReactOS) that are a world apart and don't contribute back to upstream.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 5:46 PM, James McKenzie wrote: > Sparr wrote: >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Ben Klein wrote: >> >>> "Rating: Garbage >>> What works: Installer >>> What doesn't work: Starting the game >>> What wasn't tested: N/A >>> Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" >>> ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or >>> ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the >>> test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) ) >>> >> >> As a user, I take offense to the favoritism showed here. Codeweavers >> buying things for winehq should not negatively impact the usefulness >> of the service for non-codeweavers users. That is, if I pay for >> Cedega but not for Crossover, why is winehq discriminating against me >> in terms of what comments it allows? >> >> > Codeweavers supports Wine and provides a lot of assistance with fixing > bugs. I have not seen a Cedega provide a patch in a long time. > > James McKenzie > > > > Yes, they do, but it's NOT wine. If someone mentions an app works well in Cedega/Crossover/PlayonLinux, fine. If they submit a howto/test data for Cedega/Crossover/PlayonLinux, it should be deleted. Crossover is not special in that regard. -- -Austin
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
Sparr wrote: > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Ben Klein wrote: > >> "Rating: Garbage >> What works: Installer >> What doesn't work: Starting the game >> What wasn't tested: N/A >> Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" >> ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or >> ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the >> test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) ) >> > > As a user, I take offense to the favoritism showed here. Codeweavers > buying things for winehq should not negatively impact the usefulness > of the service for non-codeweavers users. That is, if I pay for > Cedega but not for Crossover, why is winehq discriminating against me > in terms of what comments it allows? > > Codeweavers supports Wine and provides a lot of assistance with fixing bugs. I have not seen a Cedega provide a patch in a long time. James McKenzie
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
Ben Klein wrote: > [cut to conserve space and to get to the point] > appdb.winehq.org is for Wine application test data. If a user submits > test data that says "Garbage" in Wine, with an additional comment that > says "I was able to get this working in Crossover Office", I don't > have a problem. However, if the test data is entirely for Crossover, > or RecatOS, Cedega or WineX for that matter, it does not belong on > AppDB. > I agree with the use of the Wine Applications Database with these restrictions. I don't want to see products listed that do not conform to the same standards as Wine. > > "Rating: Garbage > What works: Installer > What doesn't work: Starting the game > What wasn't tested: N/A > Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" > ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or > ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the > test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) ) > > I think this is the point. Crossover, yes. The rest of the stuff, no. And this is exactly what I was talking about. If it does not work in Wine, rating: Garbage, not Plat, Gold or Bronze. James McKenzie
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 06:19:37 +1100 Ben Klein wrote: > 2009/3/8 IneedAname : > > On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 00:10:59 +1100 > > Ben Klein wrote: > > > >> A wiki is likely to be highly unsuccessful for AppDB when the focus is > >> on test data. > > > > I'm thing about the notes made by the app maintainers. > > Not the whole AppDB. > > Then it's just wasted effort. There is no benefit in turning the > Notes/HOWTO system into a wiki. > > I can think of one possible benefit. There are a lot of apps without maintainers, and there might be users of those apps who would be willing take a few minutes to post bits of useful information in a wiki, but don't want the responsibility of being a maintainer. Sure, they could just post info in a comment, but user comments are buried at the bottom of the page and not in a useful order for finding information quickly. The same goes for comments in test reports--I've found information on needed tweaks buried several reports down from the most recent. -- Rosanne DiMesio
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/8 IneedAname : > On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 00:10:59 +1100 > Ben Klein wrote: > >> A wiki is likely to be highly unsuccessful for AppDB when the focus is >> on test data. > > I'm thing about the notes made by the app maintainers. > Not the whole AppDB. Then it's just wasted effort. There is no benefit in turning the Notes/HOWTO system into a wiki.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
On Sun, 8 Mar 2009 00:10:59 +1100 Ben Klein wrote: > A wiki is likely to be highly unsuccessful for AppDB when the focus is > on test data. I'm thing about the notes made by the app maintainers. Not the whole AppDB.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/7 David Gerard : > Suggestion to improve AppDB: make it a free text wiki, with necessary > structure being imposed by those writing it, and complete history > preserved. 2009/3/7 IneedAname : > This is why I want a wiki like change log for restoring stuff and checking > the history. A wiki is likely to be highly unsuccessful for AppDB when the focus is on test data. Regarding the changelog/history, it'd even be possible to use git to manage AppDB entries. It's perfectly possible to implement a complete history without moving to a wiki, but in my opinion only admins should have access to the history. Note that history is only useful when entries get edited or deleted. Most of the time, entries are edited or rejected by admins and moderators before they are comitted to the AppDB in the first place. What we're talking about here, one way or another, is housekeeping.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 21:36:11 +0100 Klaus Layer wrote: > Rozanne just deleted an entry which was > maintained by me. According to the email I received, there were duplicated > entries for the programm Mapsource. I regard deleting entries from Appdb > without giving the maintainer a chance to backup what they maintained a > *very* unfriendly act. I would have merged the two entries under one to save > the valuable information users added to AppDB. Just deleting entries from > AppDB, deletes information the wine community collected to support using > wine. Users spent a lot of time and just deleting their work is *not* > acceptable. > > Can someone of the adminstrators of AppDB please make sure that Rozanne stops This is why I want a wiki like change log for restoring stuff and checking the history.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 11:05 PM, Ben Klein wrote: > 2009/3/7 Sparr : >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Ben Klein wrote: >>> "Rating: Garbage >>> What works: Installer >>> What doesn't work: Starting the game >>> What wasn't tested: N/A >>> Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" >>> ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or >>> ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the >>> test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) ) >> >> As a user, I take offense to the favoritism showed here. Codeweavers >> buying things for winehq should not negatively impact the usefulness >> of the service for non-codeweavers users. That is, if I pay for >> Cedega but not for Crossover, why is winehq discriminating against me >> in terms of what comments it allows? > > Because Codeweavers sponsors Wine directly (e.g. hosting the website), > because CrossOver is *very* close to opensource Wine, and because > Codeweavers devs are active contributors to Wine. Cedega is a series > of hacks on a now ancient fork of Wine (before the license changed to > LGPL). > > > Yes, they do do those things, which is why they have ads on winehq and text ads saying those things. But that doesn't mean their product is special in relation to the AppDB, especially since Crossover allows hacks, whereas Wine doesn't. -- -Austin
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Sparr wrote: > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Ben Klein wrote: >> "Rating: Garbage >> What works: Installer >> What doesn't work: Starting the game >> What wasn't tested: N/A >> Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" >> ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or >> ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the >> test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) ) > > As a user, I take offense to the favoritism showed here. Codeweavers > buying things for winehq should not negatively impact the usefulness > of the service for non-codeweavers users. That is, if I pay for > Cedega but not for Crossover, why is winehq discriminating against me > in terms of what comments it allows? Agreed. AppDB is for Wine. Cedega/Crossovers/PlayonLinux have their own methods and they are not part of Wine. -- -Austin
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/7 Sparr : > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Ben Klein wrote: >> "Rating: Garbage >> What works: Installer >> What doesn't work: Starting the game >> What wasn't tested: N/A >> Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" >> ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or >> ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the >> test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) ) > > As a user, I take offense to the favoritism showed here. Codeweavers > buying things for winehq should not negatively impact the usefulness > of the service for non-codeweavers users. That is, if I pay for > Cedega but not for Crossover, why is winehq discriminating against me > in terms of what comments it allows? Because Codeweavers sponsors Wine directly (e.g. hosting the website), because CrossOver is *very* close to opensource Wine, and because Codeweavers devs are active contributors to Wine. Cedega is a series of hacks on a now ancient fork of Wine (before the license changed to LGPL).
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Ben Klein wrote: > "Rating: Garbage > What works: Installer > What doesn't work: Starting the game > What wasn't tested: N/A > Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" > ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or > ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the > test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) ) As a user, I take offense to the favoritism showed here. Codeweavers buying things for winehq should not negatively impact the usefulness of the service for non-codeweavers users. That is, if I pay for Cedega but not for Crossover, why is winehq discriminating against me in terms of what comments it allows?
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/7 James McKenzie : > Ben Klein wrote: >> 2009/3/7 James Mckenzie : >> >>> Also, please be aware that entries referring to ReactOS, PlayonLinux and >>> Crossover are also being removed. The latter is actually biting the hand >>> that feeds us. CodeWeavers, the producers of Crossover, host WineHQ. What >>> might be a better idea is to state: >>> >> >> It's not biting the hand that feed us. We don't want Crossover AppDB >> data in Wine's AppDB, just like Crossover doesn't want Wine's AppDB >> data in their AppDB. >> >> > Ben: > > CodeWeavers provides a great deal of support and fixes for Wine. Let us > not forget this. I don't. > Second, yes this should be a USER comment. I for one cannot run any of > the dOOm games on my Intel Mac. The reason is that the OpenGL support > from Apple and the XQuartz project is not 'up to snuff' for Wine. > However, CrossOver Office and CrossOver Games will run these games. Why > the code has not made it back into Wine is not my decision. So, if I > were to write up an entry for these games, I would rate the game(s) > Garbage with the note above. I would hope that this would be enough of > an explanation, for now. If XQuartz were to release a version that did > incorporate appropriate OpenGL code, I would retest and re-evaluate. > This might result in an upgrade of my evaluation, or it might not fix > the problem. > > However, we should not just remove Crossover ratings, unless they are > full blown writeups and then it might be prudent to just remove the > evaluation and state that one exists (or should) on the Crossover site. > This should only be done if the program cannot be run under Wine or > takes extensive amounts of time and effort to do so. > > Of course, this is my opinion. We also have to give users the truth. > If a program is broken in Wine but runs just fine in Crossover, we > should at least tell them that this is so. Maybe this will influence a > developer or two to figure out the problem and fix it. appdb.winehq.org is for Wine application test data. If a user submits test data that says "Garbage" in Wine, with an additional comment that says "I was able to get this working in Crossover Office", I don't have a problem. However, if the test data is entirely for Crossover, or RecatOS, Cedega or WineX for that matter, it does not belong on AppDB. E.g.: "Rating: Platinum What works: Everything What doesn't work: Nothing What wasn't tested: IPX network games Additional comments: I had to use Crossover Games because Wine didn't work" ^^ An entry like this does not belong in Wine's AppDB because it's not actually Wine. It taints the AppDB and the rating change summaries. But if it was like this: "Rating: Garbage What works: Installer What doesn't work: Starting the game What wasn't tested: N/A Additional comments: This works in Crossover Games, but not in Wine" ^^ I don't have a problem with this. (If it mentioned Cedega/WineX or ReactOS, I'd probably remove the additional comment, but leave the test data intact. CodeWeavers products are a special case :) )
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
Ben Klein wrote: > 2009/3/7 James Mckenzie : > >> Also, please be aware that entries referring to ReactOS, PlayonLinux and >> Crossover are also being removed. The latter is actually biting the hand >> that feeds us. CodeWeavers, the producers of Crossover, host WineHQ. What >> might be a better idea is to state: >> > > It's not biting the hand that feed us. We don't want Crossover AppDB > data in Wine's AppDB, just like Crossover doesn't want Wine's AppDB > data in their AppDB. > > Ben: CodeWeavers provides a great deal of support and fixes for Wine. Let us not forget this. Second, yes this should be a USER comment. I for one cannot run any of the dOOm games on my Intel Mac. The reason is that the OpenGL support from Apple and the XQuartz project is not 'up to snuff' for Wine. However, CrossOver Office and CrossOver Games will run these games. Why the code has not made it back into Wine is not my decision. So, if I were to write up an entry for these games, I would rate the game(s) Garbage with the note above. I would hope that this would be enough of an explanation, for now. If XQuartz were to release a version that did incorporate appropriate OpenGL code, I would retest and re-evaluate. This might result in an upgrade of my evaluation, or it might not fix the problem. However, we should not just remove Crossover ratings, unless they are full blown writeups and then it might be prudent to just remove the evaluation and state that one exists (or should) on the Crossover site. This should only be done if the program cannot be run under Wine or takes extensive amounts of time and effort to do so. Of course, this is my opinion. We also have to give users the truth. If a program is broken in Wine but runs just fine in Crossover, we should at least tell them that this is so. Maybe this will influence a developer or two to figure out the problem and fix it. James McKenzie
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/7 James Mckenzie : > Also, please be aware that entries referring to ReactOS, PlayonLinux and > Crossover are also being removed. The latter is actually biting the hand > that feeds us. CodeWeavers, the producers of Crossover, host WineHQ. What > might be a better idea is to state: It's not biting the hand that feed us. We don't want Crossover AppDB data in Wine's AppDB, just like Crossover doesn't want Wine's AppDB data in their AppDB. > "This program has been shown to work better with Crossover, please visit > their web site for more details. Please be aware that Crossover is a > commercial product whose developers also support Wine." AppDB is user-maintained. If the users said this, I personally wouldn't mind as long as the rest of their test data was related to Wine. I will not put words in the users' mouths. I recently removed a few test data submissions where ies4linux and PlayOnLinux were used. Since these are not supported by WineHQ in other places (forums and IRC), I feel perfectly justified in doing that.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
Austin English wrote on March 6th: >Sent: Mar 6, 2009 4:47 PM >To: James Mckenzie >Cc: Wine Develop >Subject: Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by >Rozanne > >On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 3:44 PM, James Mckenzie > wrote: >> Austin English wrote on March 6: >>>Sent: Mar 6, 2009 1:42 PM >>>To: Klaus Layer , Rosanne DiMesio >>>Cc: Wine Develop >>>Subject: Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by >>> Rozanne >>> >>>On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Klaus Layer wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> since several months a user Rozanne is changing AppDB entries without >>>> contacting the maintainers. Most of the changes so far were minor changes. >>>> But today I was informed that Rozanne just deleted an entry which was >>>> maintained by me. According to the email I received, there were duplicated >>>> entries for the programm Mapsource. I regard deleting entries from Appdb >>>> without giving the maintainer a chance to backup what they maintained a >>>> *very* unfriendly act. I would have merged the two entries under one to >>>> save >>>> the valuable information users added to AppDB. Just deleting entries from >>>> AppDB, deletes information the wine community collected to support using >>>> wine. Users spent a lot of time and just deleting their work is *not* >>>> acceptable. >>>> >>>> Can someone of the adminstrators of AppDB please make sure that Rozanne >>>> stops >>>> deleting entries from AppDB without informing the maintainers before. I >>>> would >>>> expect to be informed about such an action before and that I as a >>>> maintainer >>>> have the right to discuss was is being delete and what not. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Klaus >>>> >>>> >>>> -- Forwarded message -- >>>> From: AppDB >>>> To: appdb-nore...@winehq.org >>>> Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:42:12 -0600 >>>> Subject: [AppDB] Submitter screenshots deleted >>>> >>>> Submitter screenshots deleted >>>> --- >>>> The screenshots you submitted for MapSource 6.13.7 have been deleted >>>> because MapSource 6.13.7 was deleted. >>>> The action was performed by Rosanne >>>> Reasons given >>>> The parent entry was deleted. The reason given for that deletion was: >>>> Duplicate entry >>>> >>>> Best regards. >>>> The AppDB team >>>> http://appdb.winehq.org/ >>>> >>>> >>>> If you don't want to receive any other e-mail, please change your >>>> preferences: >>>> http://appdb.winehq.org/preferences.php >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>Well, Rozanne _is_ an AppDB administrator, hence the permission to >>>delete those entries. >>> >>>That said, yes, notice should be given. >>> >> Also, please be aware that entries referring to ReactOS, PlayonLinux and >> Crossover are also being removed. The latter is actually biting the hand >> that feeds us. CodeWeavers, the producers of Crossover, host WineHQ. What >> might be a better idea is to state: >> >> "This program has been shown to work better with Crossover, please visit >> their web site for more details. Please be aware that Crossover is a >> commercial product whose developers also support Wine." >> >> James McKenzie >> > >Codeweavers has their own AppDB type system: I am very well aware that this exists. However, folks with Wine may NOT. Putting a pointer in the AppDB for those programs that need a lot of work to run under Wine may prove helpful (remember that is the purpose of this system to get users to get their favorite Windows program running under Linux/UNIX.) We also have to remember that some folks picked up Linux/Wine because it is FREE, and sending them off to a product that may cost them money will just get the upset unless we 'warn' them first. So, my suggestion is just that, a suggestion. However, I have found that one of my favorite First Person Shooters will NOT run under Wine. No problem as it does with CrossOver (and it is actually worse under CrossOver Games for Mac), so I have it and I use it. The problem that causes the game to fail is outside of the scope of the Wine project, as CodeWeavers worked around the busted OpenGL in Apple's/XQuartz's X11 implementation. Thus if I were to write up the program under Wine it would be Garbage with a cavat that it does work under Crossover Mac. This is NOT needed for Linux as it runs just fine under most, if not all distros. I don't know or care about ReactOS or PlayOnLinux's abilities at this time. I would NOT like to see them in the AppDB for a number of reasons, mostly legal. It might also be possible to put the existance of CrossOver in the first page, but that would be up to the web masters. James McKenzie
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/6 Austin English : > Codeweavers has their own AppDB type system: > http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/ That's no reason not to mention them, if the point is to help the reader. - d.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 3:44 PM, James Mckenzie wrote: > Austin English wrote on March 6: >>Sent: Mar 6, 2009 1:42 PM >>To: Klaus Layer , Rosanne DiMesio >>Cc: Wine Develop >>Subject: Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by >> Rozanne >> >>On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Klaus Layer wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> since several months a user Rozanne is changing AppDB entries without >>> contacting the maintainers. Most of the changes so far were minor changes. >>> But today I was informed that Rozanne just deleted an entry which was >>> maintained by me. According to the email I received, there were duplicated >>> entries for the programm Mapsource. I regard deleting entries from Appdb >>> without giving the maintainer a chance to backup what they maintained a >>> *very* unfriendly act. I would have merged the two entries under one to save >>> the valuable information users added to AppDB. Just deleting entries from >>> AppDB, deletes information the wine community collected to support using >>> wine. Users spent a lot of time and just deleting their work is *not* >>> acceptable. >>> >>> Can someone of the adminstrators of AppDB please make sure that Rozanne >>> stops >>> deleting entries from AppDB without informing the maintainers before. I >>> would >>> expect to be informed about such an action before and that I as a maintainer >>> have the right to discuss was is being delete and what not. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Klaus >>> >>> >>> -- Forwarded message -- >>> From: AppDB >>> To: appdb-nore...@winehq.org >>> Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:42:12 -0600 >>> Subject: [AppDB] Submitter screenshots deleted >>> >>> Submitter screenshots deleted >>> --- >>> The screenshots you submitted for MapSource 6.13.7 have been deleted >>> because MapSource 6.13.7 was deleted. >>> The action was performed by Rosanne >>> Reasons given >>> The parent entry was deleted. The reason given for that deletion was: >>> Duplicate entry >>> >>> Best regards. >>> The AppDB team >>> http://appdb.winehq.org/ >>> >>> >>> If you don't want to receive any other e-mail, please change your >>> preferences: >>> http://appdb.winehq.org/preferences.php >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>Well, Rozanne _is_ an AppDB administrator, hence the permission to >>delete those entries. >> >>That said, yes, notice should be given. >> > Also, please be aware that entries referring to ReactOS, PlayonLinux and > Crossover are also being removed. The latter is actually biting the hand > that feeds us. CodeWeavers, the producers of Crossover, host WineHQ. What > might be a better idea is to state: > > "This program has been shown to work better with Crossover, please visit > their web site for more details. Please be aware that Crossover is a > commercial product whose developers also support Wine." > > James McKenzie > Codeweavers has their own AppDB type system: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/ -- -Austin
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
Austin English wrote on March 6: >Sent: Mar 6, 2009 1:42 PM >To: Klaus Layer , Rosanne DiMesio >Cc: Wine Develop >Subject: Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by >Rozanne > >On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Klaus Layer wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> since several months a user Rozanne is changing AppDB entries without >> contacting the maintainers. Most of the changes so far were minor changes. >> But today I was informed that Rozanne just deleted an entry which was >> maintained by me. According to the email I received, there were duplicated >> entries for the programm Mapsource. I regard deleting entries from Appdb >> without giving the maintainer a chance to backup what they maintained a >> *very* unfriendly act. I would have merged the two entries under one to save >> the valuable information users added to AppDB. Just deleting entries from >> AppDB, deletes information the wine community collected to support using >> wine. Users spent a lot of time and just deleting their work is *not* >> acceptable. >> >> Can someone of the adminstrators of AppDB please make sure that Rozanne stops >> deleting entries from AppDB without informing the maintainers before. I would >> expect to be informed about such an action before and that I as a maintainer >> have the right to discuss was is being delete and what not. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Klaus >> >> >> -- Forwarded message -- >> From: AppDB >> To: appdb-nore...@winehq.org >> Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:42:12 -0600 >> Subject: [AppDB] Submitter screenshots deleted >> >> Submitter screenshots deleted >> --- >> The screenshots you submitted for MapSource 6.13.7 have been deleted because >> MapSource 6.13.7 was deleted. >> The action was performed by Rosanne >> Reasons given >> The parent entry was deleted. The reason given for that deletion was: >> Duplicate entry >> >> Best regards. >> The AppDB team >> http://appdb.winehq.org/ >> >> >> If you don't want to receive any other e-mail, please change your >> preferences: >> http://appdb.winehq.org/preferences.php >> >> >> >> > >Well, Rozanne _is_ an AppDB administrator, hence the permission to >delete those entries. > >That said, yes, notice should be given. > Also, please be aware that entries referring to ReactOS, PlayonLinux and Crossover are also being removed. The latter is actually biting the hand that feeds us. CodeWeavers, the producers of Crossover, host WineHQ. What might be a better idea is to state: "This program has been shown to work better with Crossover, please visit their web site for more details. Please be aware that Crossover is a commercial product whose developers also support Wine." James McKenzie
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/6 Rosanne DiMesio : > I have not been deleting entries per se; I have on occasion merged duplicate > entries using "Move child objects." However, I was unaware until now that not > everything in the merged entry was being transferred when I did this. I > apologize for that; I did not realize that information was being lost. It > will not happen again. Suggestion to improve AppDB: make it a free text wiki, with necessary structure being imposed by those writing it, and complete history preserved. - d.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
> 2009/3/6 Klaus Layer : > > Am Freitag, 6. März 2009 21:42:18 schrieben Sie: > >> > >> Well, Rozanne _is_ an AppDB administrator, hence the permission to > >> delete those entries. > >> > >> That said, yes, notice should be given. > >> > >> -- > >> -Austin > >> > > > > He/she never gave any notice. I just noticed that several weeks ago another > > program has being deleted by that person. Are there any policies for > > deleting > > AppDB entries? Is there a way to restore the deleted entries? > > > > Regards, > > > > Klaus > > > > > > > > > > If the entries are sufficiently old I have a backup of the AppDB from > a few weeks ago from which we can recover data if necessary. > > -Zach > > I have not been deleting entries per se; I have on occasion merged duplicate entries using "Move child objects." However, I was unaware until now that not everything in the merged entry was being transferred when I did this. I apologize for that; I did not realize that information was being lost. It will not happen again. -- Rosanne DiMesio
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
2009/3/6 Klaus Layer : > Am Freitag, 6. März 2009 21:42:18 schrieben Sie: >> >> Well, Rozanne _is_ an AppDB administrator, hence the permission to >> delete those entries. >> >> That said, yes, notice should be given. >> >> -- >> -Austin >> > > He/she never gave any notice. I just noticed that several weeks ago another > program has being deleted by that person. Are there any policies for deleting > AppDB entries? Is there a way to restore the deleted entries? > > Regards, > > Klaus > > > > If the entries are sufficiently old I have a backup of the AppDB from a few weeks ago from which we can recover data if necessary. -Zach
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
Am Freitag, 6. März 2009 21:42:18 schrieben Sie: > > Well, Rozanne _is_ an AppDB administrator, hence the permission to > delete those entries. > > That said, yes, notice should be given. > > -- > -Austin > He/she never gave any notice. I just noticed that several weeks ago another program has being deleted by that person. Are there any policies for deleting AppDB entries? Is there a way to restore the deleted entries? Regards, Klaus signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Klaus Layer wrote: > Hi all, > > since several months a user Rozanne is changing AppDB entries without > contacting the maintainers. Most of the changes so far were minor changes. > But today I was informed that Rozanne just deleted an entry which was > maintained by me. According to the email I received, there were duplicated > entries for the programm Mapsource. I regard deleting entries from Appdb > without giving the maintainer a chance to backup what they maintained a > *very* unfriendly act. I would have merged the two entries under one to save > the valuable information users added to AppDB. Just deleting entries from > AppDB, deletes information the wine community collected to support using > wine. Users spent a lot of time and just deleting their work is *not* > acceptable. > > Can someone of the adminstrators of AppDB please make sure that Rozanne stops > deleting entries from AppDB without informing the maintainers before. I would > expect to be informed about such an action before and that I as a maintainer > have the right to discuss was is being delete and what not. > > Thanks, > > Klaus > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: AppDB > To: appdb-nore...@winehq.org > Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:42:12 -0600 > Subject: [AppDB] Submitter screenshots deleted > > Submitter screenshots deleted > --- > The screenshots you submitted for MapSource 6.13.7 have been deleted because > MapSource 6.13.7 was deleted. > The action was performed by Rosanne > Reasons given > The parent entry was deleted. The reason given for that deletion was: > Duplicate entry > > Best regards. > The AppDB team > http://appdb.winehq.org/ > > > If you don't want to receive any other e-mail, please change your preferences: > http://appdb.winehq.org/preferences.php > > > > Well, Rozanne _is_ an AppDB administrator, hence the permission to delete those entries. That said, yes, notice should be given. -- -Austin
AppDB entries are being delete without contacting maintainer by Rozanne
Hi all, since several months a user Rozanne is changing AppDB entries without contacting the maintainers. Most of the changes so far were minor changes. But today I was informed that Rozanne just deleted an entry which was maintained by me. According to the email I received, there were duplicated entries for the programm Mapsource. I regard deleting entries from Appdb without giving the maintainer a chance to backup what they maintained a *very* unfriendly act. I would have merged the two entries under one to save the valuable information users added to AppDB. Just deleting entries from AppDB, deletes information the wine community collected to support using wine. Users spent a lot of time and just deleting their work is *not* acceptable. Can someone of the adminstrators of AppDB please make sure that Rozanne stops deleting entries from AppDB without informing the maintainers before. I would expect to be informed about such an action before and that I as a maintainer have the right to discuss was is being delete and what not. Thanks, Klaus --- Begin Message --- Submitter screenshots deleted --- The screenshots you submitted for MapSource 6.13.7 have been deleted because MapSource 6.13.7 was deleted. The action was performed by Rosanne Reasons given The parent entry was deleted. The reason given for that deletion was: Duplicate entry Best regards. The AppDB team http://appdb.winehq.org/ If you don't want to receive any other e-mail, please change your preferences: http://appdb.winehq.org/preferences.php --- End Message --- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
