Re: [WISPA] Height above metal roof
Wonder how well OFDM performs in this situation? George Jason wrote: Ryan, I would think that the vertical beam width of the antenna you choose would have something to do with it. Do a little trig and see if the signal hits the rooftop or clears the edge; throw in some safety factor. Also, calc the freznel zone at the edge of the roof. Just my gut instinct. Jason Ryan Spott wrote: I have been offered the roof of a barn in my area to mount 900, 2.4 and 5.8 APs. What is the minimum height above the metal that I want to be at if I were to mount omnis? I figured you folks would know with all the talk of metal water towers and metal silos. Thanks! ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Height above metal roof
Ryan, I would think that the vertical beam width of the antenna you choose would have something to do with it. Do a little trig and see if the signal hits the rooftop or clears the edge; throw in some safety factor. Also, calc the freznel zone at the edge of the roof. Just my gut instinct. Jason Ryan Spott wrote: I have been offered the roof of a barn in my area to mount 900, 2.4 and 5.8 APs. What is the minimum height above the metal that I want to be at if I were to mount omnis? I figured you folks would know with all the talk of metal water towers and metal silos. Thanks! ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] useful tower locator
All, Below is the link for a useful tower locator. It is not search able still very helpful. http://towers.conxx.net/ Just zoom in and the tower info comes up on the bottom of the page. Regards, Dawn DiPietro --- --- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program
>a whole 49 square feet, eh ? Real hard. :) Some interesting thoughts for Friday I forget the exact numbers, but Tropos recommends something like 20 APs / square mile to get 95% coverage at b/g rates 49 square miles = 49*20 ~ 960 Aps Part# MTR-52103000-500AA is a 500 pack of HotZone Aps on their price sheet that goes for about $1.5 million list So that's $3 million in Aps -- for simplicity -- lets assume that mounting hardware, power taps, etc is equal to the equivalent in discount Then we need to add in the additional infrastructure, like backhaul SMs, Routers, Servers, etc and the services required to install / implement the system... Experience from a similar type deployment (~40 square miles) pegs the entire project at about $5 million for E,F&I Market Data: Census information puts Anaheim w/ a population of 328k people (97k households) Median income for a household is $47k According to the March 2006 PEW Internet report -- in 2006, 46% of the population that makes between $30-75k / year have broadband at home So the total addressable broadband market in Anaheim is 46k subscribers of which 99% today are probably using some sort of landline cable / dsl broadband solution that is bundled together w/ their TV/phone service With a 10% penetration rate (that's ~5k subscribers) -- total revenue comes out to about $110k / month Assuming ZERO marketing, provisioning, customer service, bandwidth, support, repair costs -- the breakeven point for this system is 5 years (ouch) Lets look at fixed wireless 49 square miles is basically equivalent to a 4 mile ring around a tower Remember Area = (Pie)(R)^2 A = 3.14*4^2 A Canopy SM (averaged b/n 900 & 5 Ghz) costs about $300 complete (w/ antenna, mounting hardware, power supply, etc) A Canopy AP costs about $2k complete (dividing up GPS sync, etc) 5k Canopy SMs would cost me about $1.5 million The associated install costs (@ $50 / install) costs about $250k At 50 SMs / AP -- the AP costs runs around $250k Infrastructure / Hardware / Switches / Site Ac / Engineering / etc would cost about $100k (remember -- this is only a 4 mile radius =) Interesting Thoughts: Moto-Mesh System Cost to service 5k customers within 49 square miles: $5 million Canopy Fixed Wireless System Cost to service 5k customers within 49 square miles: $2.5 million Hrm... -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 6:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program By Tara Seals Posted on: 06/29/2006 EarthLink Inc. launched a municipal Wi-Fi broadband network in Anaheim, Calif., and announced a wholesale Wi-Fi access strategy on Thursday. EarthLink has won bids in several cities to provide citywide wireless Internet access, including Philadelphia and San Francisco, but Anaheim is its first commercial launch. It's also the first piece of a strategy to create a nationwide footprint of municipal Wi-Fi networks by tying together all EarthLink municipal markets under one service. Hand in hand with creating the footprint will be an open-access wholesale program. The ISP already has two national wholesale partners, announced today: PeoplePC Inc., EarthLink's wholly owned subsidiary, and DIRECTV. It also plans to partner with local ISPs that want to provide Wi-Fi service in their respective markets. The portable, wireless service will provide high-speed Internet access for residents, businesses, visitors and municipal employees. Anaheim's 49-square-foot buildout is expected to be completed by the fourth quarter. Curt Pringle, the mayor of the city, officially unwired the city at a wire-cutting ceremony this morning. "The days when Anaheim residents, workers and visitors are tied to a desk to access an affordable broadband network are coming to an end," said Garry Betty, president and CEO of EarthLink. "The launch of this network enables people to make a choice about how, and from where, they want to access the Internet securely." For $21.95 a month, Anaheim subscribers receive eight mailboxes and protection tools such as a spam blocker and security, and will be able to access the Internet from across the municipality, whether sitting in a park, at a café or elsewhere. Customers also can purchase a Wi-Fi modem for at-home use. In addition, EarthLink has reached a nonbinding agreement with AOL LLC and is discussing ways to offer its AOL.com content and Web assets on the municipal footprint. The network also will serve city department
Re: [WISPA] War Driving Police
Sometimes it's even neighboring WISP's that come by and check the doors when nobody's around, too :) North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061 personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net Fast Internet, NO WIRES! - - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] War Driving Police > I think it's a great idea. One of the things I love about being in a small > town is that the cops will check our doors for us. Sometimes we forget to > lock the office and they'll leave us a nasty note and lock up for us. It > helps me sleep a bit better :-) > > Marlon > (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales > (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services > 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! > 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) > www.odessaoffice.com/wireless > www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Rick Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" > Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 4:45 AM > Subject: RE: [WISPA] War Driving Police > > > > Uhh, and that's the same reason ISPs have been sued (admittedly > un-documentable) > for trying to make money off that idea... If you KNOW it's open, you > invaded > someone's privacy to figure that out, and there starts the whole > argument all over again... > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Peter R. > Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:19 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] War Driving Police > > http://techdirt.com/articles/20060629/1843240.shtml > > from a comment: > > I have yet to understand how having open WiFi poses a threat to anyone. > If anyone is going to be war driving I would think it would be the > internet providers, since it's your agreement with them that is being > broken by leaving your WiFi unsecured. > > -- > > > Regards, > > Peter > RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist > We Help ISPs Connect & Communicate > 813.963.5884 > http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] War Driving Police
I think it's a great idea. One of the things I love about being in a small town is that the cops will check our doors for us. Sometimes we forget to lock the office and they'll leave us a nasty note and lock up for us. It helps me sleep a bit better :-) Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Rick Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 4:45 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] War Driving Police Uhh, and that's the same reason ISPs have been sued (admittedly un-documentable) for trying to make money off that idea... If you KNOW it's open, you invaded someone's privacy to figure that out, and there starts the whole argument all over again... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] War Driving Police http://techdirt.com/articles/20060629/1843240.shtml from a comment: I have yet to understand how having open WiFi poses a threat to anyone. If anyone is going to be war driving I would think it would be the internet providers, since it's your agreement with them that is being broken by leaving your WiFi unsecured. -- Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect & Communicate 813.963.5884 http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Height above metal roof
It really depends on the roof. If it's pretty flat then you'll likely have to get up there a ways. If it's sloped away from your antenna it may not take much. This, sir, will likely be a try it and see issue. If you're gonna press for a number though, I'd probably put up one of those 20 or 30' guyed push up masts and mount your gear on as many of those as it takes. They are cheap, easy to bring down for work on devices etc. Laters, Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Ryan Spott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: [WISPA] Height above metal roof I have been offered the roof of a barn in my area to mount 900, 2.4 and 5.8 APs. What is the minimum height above the metal that I want to be at if I were to mount omnis? I figured you folks would know with all the talk of metal water towers and metal silos. Thanks! ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Being the WISP Ambassador In My County...Your InputRequested...
Hi Jason, Lots of pics here: http://odessaoffice.com/wireless/ If you use any of them kindly give me credit First off, you should explain to these guys that you are putting up what amounts to a home weather station. There's NO need for you to build a "real" tower on a hill side. This is important because there's also no need for you to fall under the same engineering requirements as the cell phone companies. (I'll also note that the requirements they've placed here seem designed to keep providers out rather than encourage them to come to town.) The most you'll need to service one or two small areas from a hill is a utility pole and there's no need for any kind of engineering study when sticking them in the ground eh? Access to the site is YOUR problem not theirs. Especially if it's a remote solar powered site. If there's no access then you assume the liability and risk for fire etc. If they can't get there to put a fire out and you loose everything that's your problem not theirs. Why should contractors be required if you can do the work yourself? Tell them that you are your own contractor. Federally, you don't need any licenses or permits for the system you are building. You probably do need a business license for your area but that's it. There's no reason for them to require a permit for every radio or antenna you hang. Just get a site permit and I'd think that should do. Here's what I've done in the past. I had a town that wanted $1500 per month in tower rent (for the top of the water tower) and $5,000,000 in insurance coverage. I told them that I'd love to be able to pay that, but with service rates of $35 per month there was just no way that I could. I also said that I really wanted to help make their community a better one and offer some competition in the broadband market. They had to help me though. We had to work as partners. In the end, it's the voters and tax payers that win. My counter proposal to them was free internet for all city buildings (shop, town hall, library, police etc.). Our existing $1,000,000 insurance coverage and NON exclusive use of the tower. We have done this with two towns in the area now. Our contract states that we have to shut down if we cause interference to ANYONE in the area when we turn our system on. We then have to fix the interference issue before we can light up again. (this was done to prove that we're interested in being a good neighbor) Our contract does say that if anyone else goes up on the towers they can't interfere with us either. I showed them how small our antennas were compared to what they were thinking and they let me go with my current insurance coverage. They buy the hardware for any sites that they want lit up, but we provide all access and we do some computer work for them when they ask. No charge. I really leaned on the idea that we're here with low prices and that we want to keep it that way. We also want to help the town grow economically and having the ability for people to live in the small towns while working for big city companies or being self employed but selling outside of the area are great ways to help the community to thrive. Hope that helps. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: "Jason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:10 AM Subject: [WISPA] Being the WISP Ambassador In My County...Your InputRequested... List, In a few days I am meeting with county officials to address the regulations, building codes, and permitting process for WISP's. When I first approached them over a year ago with the desire to build a tower-less AP on a hill side (electrical cabinet, solar, sector antenna - very simple...), I was handed the building regulations for "Wireless Communications Facilities", ie, cell phone towers (think $50k+, & contractors are the only ones who can touch it). I then tried to explain that what I am doing is of a different scope and scale, but no dice. Now, after being patient and pursuing the right contacts, I will get my 5 minutes. The people I am meeting with are only vaguely aware of wireless internet technology and didn't seem to know what exactly I was talking about (although there are several wisps operating in the large cities in the county, where the codes are the most rigid...). Over the phone I explained it in terms of, "outdoor, large-scale wifi", and that people install $200 AP's on grain silos, and that the $50k per AP just is not a good fit for this emerging industry. They seemed very open and even glad that someone would address this, even mentioning reforming the regulations beca
Re: [WISPA] Frame size update (Matt, et al). VL nows supports 1600 bytes +
Patrick Leary wrote: So is that adequate for what you and others are doing, such as with MPLS? Yes -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Frame size update (Matt, et al). VL nows supports 1600 bytes +
Well Matt, thanks to your questions I pushed them through the Alvarion R&D folks and wanted to inform y'all of what I learned. I discovered that BreezeACCESS VL as of version 4.0.23 supports jumbo packets of 1600 bytes + 4 bytes of CRC. If VLAN is used the length is the same 1600 + 4 bytes. It works both ways UL and DL. Engineering has apparently tested it with Smartbit card 7710 type. Same while inspecting the packets with Ethereal. So is that adequate for what you and others are doing, such as with MPLS? - Patrick -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program
a whole 49 square feet, eh ? Real hard. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program By Tara Seals Posted on: 06/29/2006 EarthLink Inc. launched a municipal Wi-Fi broadband network in Anaheim, Calif., and announced a wholesale Wi-Fi access strategy on Thursday. EarthLink has won bids in several cities to provide citywide wireless Internet access, including Philadelphia and San Francisco, but Anaheim is its first commercial launch. It's also the first piece of a strategy to create a nationwide footprint of municipal Wi-Fi networks by tying together all EarthLink municipal markets under one service. Hand in hand with creating the footprint will be an open-access wholesale program. The ISP already has two national wholesale partners, announced today: PeoplePC Inc., EarthLink's wholly owned subsidiary, and DIRECTV. It also plans to partner with local ISPs that want to provide Wi-Fi service in their respective markets. The portable, wireless service will provide high-speed Internet access for residents, businesses, visitors and municipal employees. Anaheim's 49-square-foot buildout is expected to be completed by the fourth quarter. Curt Pringle, the mayor of the city, officially unwired the city at a wire-cutting ceremony this morning. "The days when Anaheim residents, workers and visitors are tied to a desk to access an affordable broadband network are coming to an end," said Garry Betty, president and CEO of EarthLink. "The launch of this network enables people to make a choice about how, and from where, they want to access the Internet securely." For $21.95 a month, Anaheim subscribers receive eight mailboxes and protection tools such as a spam blocker and security, and will be able to access the Internet from across the municipality, whether sitting in a park, at a café or elsewhere. Customers also can purchase a Wi-Fi modem for at-home use. In addition, EarthLink has reached a nonbinding agreement with AOL LLC and is discussing ways to offer its AOL.com content and Web assets on the municipal footprint. The network also will serve city departments and businesses; EarthLink's wireless network offers speeds comparable to existing T1 solutions, the company says. For occasional-use customers, EarthLink offers rates ranging from $3.95 for a one-hour pass to $15.95 for a three-day pass. Occasional-use customers will connect and access account information from the EarthLink portal page. Consumers can visit www.EarthLink.net/wifi and provide their phone numbers and addresses to see if the network has been built out in their area. If unavailable, they will be added to a waiting list and will be notified when the service is available. As for infrastructure, EarthLink has deployed Tropos Networks' MetroMesh Wi-Fi routers on light poles throughout the city to form a wireless mesh that is operated and optimized using Tropos Control and Tropos Insight, a suite of end-to-end configuration, monitoring and maintenance tools. EarthLink also uses Motorola's MOTOwi4 portfolio of products, including the Canopy high-speed backhaul and Wi-Fi mesh network equipment. EarthLink Inc. Wi-Fi www.earthlink.net/wifi Motorola Inc. www.motorola.com Tropos Networks www.tropos.com -- Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect & Communicate 813.963.5884 http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] War Driving Police
Uhh, and that's the same reason ISPs have been sued (admittedly un-documentable) for trying to make money off that idea... If you KNOW it's open, you invaded someone's privacy to figure that out, and there starts the whole argument all over again... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:19 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] War Driving Police http://techdirt.com/articles/20060629/1843240.shtml from a comment: I have yet to understand how having open WiFi poses a threat to anyone. If anyone is going to be war driving I would think it would be the internet providers, since it's your agreement with them that is being broken by leaving your WiFi unsecured. -- Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect & Communicate 813.963.5884 http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
