Re: [WISPA] Call to Vendors.....
If they are willing to open their wallets wide, this is Cisco's offering... http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps272/index.html John Blair Davis wrote: This is an invitation to Vendors to contact me if they have equipment that could meet my needs... I have been contacted by government unit that wishes to deploy a mobile, high speed data network in their vehicles. The area of operation is tree infested. The mobile units will never be more than 7 miles from a tower with a base station. LoS is NOT assured from the mobile unit to the base. The mobile units must switch base stations as needed with no user intervention. Use of 2.4GHz band is not acceptable. Min data rates are 256Kbit up by 1Mbit down. I'm open to any technology that will work and to any vendor. Licensed or unlicensed gear would be acceptable. Contact me by e-mail or my cell below. Calling late is fine. I'm up late anyway! -- Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP Cell 269-650-5749 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Interstate Service
My understanding is currently nothing. Therefore a good market for increasing revenues selling interstate backhauls to LECs and Cable Cos. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 12:27 PM Subject: [WISPA] Interstate Service If you are strictly an ISP, what legal constraints prevent or influence your ability to cross state lines with your service? Thanks in advance -m- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Google in Iowa
*Google Plans $600 Million Data Center in Iowa* According to recent reports, Google Inc. plans to spend $600 million on a data center in Council Bluffs western Iowa. Google plans to start operations at the facility by spring of 2009, and said the region is a busy crossroads of Internet activity. Construction in Council Bluffs has already begun. The western Iowa facility exists on nearly 1,200 acres of land, with room for expansion. It will employ about 200 workers who will keep the facility running 24 hours a day. -- more at http://www.datacenterjournal.com/News/Article.asp?article_id=1012 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga vs Dragonwave
Several things 1. Dragonwave PoE is not standard b/c it's virtually impossible b/c in a GigE setup, there's no unused pairs 2. Horizon is approximately 25% cheaper than AirPair, with a comparable entry point list price LOWER than the Orthogon / Motorola Gemini / 60 Mb Backhaul (20 Mb FLEX vs Gemini's 20 Mb FD Throughput) 3. Horizon is software upgradable from as low as 10 Mb to 350 Mb on a single FCC channel (400 Mb if you bond 2 channels together) -Charles Dragonwave Distributor --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 6:08 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Not sure... but Dragonwave's PoE is not standard PoE... you have to purchase their expensive, proprietary cables with the radios... so if you are running a new cable, why not just run LMR400 and not ever have to worry about it again? Travis Microserv Gino Villarini wrote: So basically the Horizon would be the same or less and its poe Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 7:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga No... this was for their IDU/ODU fixed 100Mbps unit from both Trango and Dragonwave. Travis Microserv Gino Villarini wrote: That's the new dragonwave horizon pricing? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 6:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Honestly I was a little disappointed with the pricing... I thought it would be more aggressive from the newest player on the block. For the 100Mbps full-duplex version, it was only about 25% less than a similar Dragonwave setup. I guess I was hoping for more like 50% less. :) Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: Our Trango rep provided us with a price quote. I didn't speak to the person directly, so I don't know if I am allowed to share or if it was based on a volume commitment. I will say it is in line with what most people are expecting out of Trango price wise. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, That statement, really depends on the price that is relased, and the volume the buyer is considering, as well as their time frame. If someone is planning on dropping 1/4-1/2 million on Licensed gear in a year, and the price is really good, allowing the provider to get 30% more links up for the same dollar, its not much of a risk being the first, considering the future potential reward. If the WISP's timeline is also spread out over the year, they have plenty of time to wait for bug fixes, before the bulk of the deployments. The golden question right now is, what price is Trango going to be at? The prospective buyers are predicting a low cost entry point, just because Trango has Always delivered industry leading price point, to jump start volume adoption in the industry. However, prior to seeing the price released, I'll say Dragon wave has the upper hand, for potentially being able to be the price leader based on their all outdoor design, compared to Trango's half and half indoor/outdoor. I will tell you, the most exciting news of the year for me, is clearly Trango's entry into the Licensed space. I selected them once for their Superior designs, and wouldn't hesitate to do it again, if they follow their own suit with the initial mentality of innovated products, such as the 5830 product line in it's day. With that said... I spoke with Dragon Wave, at the IWPC workshop this week. These guys get it, and is going to be a tough act to follow. The Dragon wave vision is to have a single management platform and infrastructure design for all your needs. Dragon wave is also very highly considering launching an E-band or 60Ghz product to their
RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga vs Dragonwave
Its important to remember... There are two relevent prices to consider Entry Cost and Full Speed Cost. Sure, let's compare apples to apples, to start: OVERALL THROUGHPUT 1. The TrangoLINK Giga requires 56 MHz of spectrum to get 311 Mb of FD throughput...the FCC doesn't allow someone to license a 56 MHz channel, so to run at this date rate, you would have to license 2 adjacent channels (2x the license cost, and at ~ $3500 / link, it's nothing to sneeze at) 2. From an entry point perspective, if you only license 1 channel to start (e.g., aren't using the data throughput), there's no way to reserve that adjacent channel...you have to hope / pray that in the time period that you scale that no one licenses your neighboring channel 3. Under Part 101, it is technically illegal to just squat on the frequency by grabbing that extra channel...you have to use it or you lose it 4. That said, if we're only going to use a single channel, the Full Speed upgrade point of the TrangoLINK Giga is 240 Mb FD, NOT 300 Mb 5. From a comparison perspective, Horizon has a max capacity of 350 Mbps FD on a single FCC channel (so it's 350 vs 240) RF PERFORMANCE 6. From a raw performance perspective, TrangoLINK Giga requires 256 QAM modulation to get 240 Mb FD...Horizon does 270 Mb FD with 128 QAM; the difference in receive sensitivity between 128 QAM to 256 QAM can be anywhere from 5-10 dB 7. High Power -- not sure about the specs of the TrangoLINK Giga, but having a High Power variant gives Horizon an extra 7 dB worth of output power...depending on the frequency, that can be almost 2' worth of antenna RELIABILITY 8. Like it or not, the probability of issues in a first revision of any hardware manufacturer's product is extremely high...Dragonwave has been producing licensed point-to-point radios for over 5 years and is on the 3rd generation of its hardware platform... 9. Trango's past 2 first revisions of hardware almost inevitably fails...look at their last several new products (I'm talking reengineered...HD Mesh is just Atlas + Mikrotik + glue, 2.4 GHz was based upon 900)...Atlas, 900 MHz...to me, it seems like it usually takes them about 1 year to get something to work properly...maybe 3rd time is the charm? That said...it's one thing to be first when it's only $1-2k, but $10k+ makes it a bit more painful when you've got to wait 6+ months for them to get it to work right ROADMAP 10. Dragonwave is a company that is focused exclusively and is committed to backhaul; it also has a product roadmaps for AirPair that allow for future upgradability (AirPair has a roadmap that will get it to 1 GB+ in the future) 11. Trango builds a product and a market, and then moves on Some food for thought -Charles Operating Manager CTI - WISPA Paid Vendor Member Dragonwave Distributor --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 7:54 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Trango appears to have a MUCH better price point, considering upgraded to full speed. Although, I'm having difficulty getting confirmation on Dragonwave's Full capacity Best price, to be certain. Its also important to understand that there is a undisputed reliabilty advantage of having a combo indoor/outdoor model, regardless of whether an Outdoor model is mroe convenient and preferred by many WISPs. I guess I'm saying We should be comparing apples to apples, Airpair to TrangoGigalink, and not fair to compare Trango to Horizon prices because of that.. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 7:03 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga So basically the Horizon would be the same or less and its poe Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 7:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga No... this was for their IDU/ODU fixed 100Mbps unit from both Trango and Dragonwave. Travis Microserv Gino Villarini wrote: That's the new dragonwave horizon pricing? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 6:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Honestly I was a little disappointed with the pricing... I thought it would be more aggressive from the newest player on the block. For the 100Mbps full-duplex version,
RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga
That statement, really depends on the price that is relased, and the volume the buyer is considering, as well as their time frame. If someone is planning on dropping 1/4-1/2 million on Licensed gear in a year, and the price is really good, allowing the provider to get 30% more links up for the same dollar, its not much of a risk being the first, considering the future potential reward. I would argue that there is ALWAYS MASSIVE risk of being first...and spending 1/4 - 1/2 only MAGNIFIES that risk There are people who spent $$$ millions on Cisco OFDM Wireless stuff back in the mid-late 90s...that never worked There are people who spent $$$ millions on Adaptive Broadband stuff back in the late 90s...it didn't work for 5 years, and they finally only got it working b/c there was so much bankrupt inventory at $0 cost that writing software was almost a moot point If the WISP's timeline is also spread out over the year, they have plenty of time to wait for bug fixes, before the bulk of the deployments. I personally would rather spend $12k on a link that WORKS TODAY vs. spending $10k on a link that MIGHT WORK SOMEDAY That said, the TrangoLINK Giga is about the same price as Horizon, and doesn't have anywhere near the throughput upgrade path that Horizon has (see my earlier email about channel size) So, the better question to ask, would be, given a choice between 2 providers (who are both incidentally about the same size), would I rather 1. Spend $10k on a backhaul THAT WILL DEFINITELY WORK with a small company that has 5 years of building licensed backhauls and is 100% committed to building licensed backhauls today and tomorrow Or 2. Spend $10 on a backhaul THAT MIGHT WORK IN 6-12 MONTHS with a small company that has just released its first backhaul line but also still needs to support a point-to-multipoint line, a wireless video surveillance line, a mesh line, etc -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga
I will tell you, the most exciting news of the year for me, is clearly Trango's entry into the Licensed space. In no particular order, here's a quick list of other licensed radio manufacturers off the top of my head w/ licensed Part 101 products shipping today in the US NEC Alcatel Harris Stratex Nera Ceragon Dragonwave AdTran Unity Wireless (Wit-Com) Proxim Ericson Microwave Data Systems Microwave Networks Gigacom Dunno how it's that exciting -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
