Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
They're probably trying to save a few bucks on interconnectivity and peering agreements, on the assumption that traffic within their already-existing network is free. Yeah right... It has nothing to do with saving Interconnect dollars. Comcast's download ratios are already way higher than upload even with BitTorrent full force, and probably are already getting paid for the peering relationships if anything because of their ratios. What they are doing here is sending a message that if you Buy Comcast you get performance, if you buy from our competitors, you won;t ahve performance because we control the majority market, and we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. This is EXACTLY what NetNetrality is about, having a different standard for clients of another provider than one has for their own. If they Equally blocked BitTotrrent for their own subscribers, then it could be argued they are treating all traffic equally, and not a NetNetrality violation, but just a Privacy violation. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P CHUCK PROFITO wrote: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071019/D8SCASQ80.html Comcast has been doing this for a few months, actually. By most accounts, the traffic is throttled at their network edges - i.e. two Comcast customers can trade files all they want, the throttling only kicks in when one of them tries to exchange data with a non-Comcast peer. My network throttles peer-to-peer traffic because that traffic does really nasty things to our customer APs (the last-mile hop). Comcast isn't doing anything there, according to the reports I've seen. They're probably trying to save a few bucks on interconnectivity and peering agreements, on the assumption that traffic within their already-existing network is free. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
very well said. I would not assume the right to totally block any traffic, but there's nothing wrong with slowing it down as long as honesty is the main policy. even the strongest torrent user can't deny the fairness of slowing them down so others can brows/use the internet at a good speed. Luke - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P Interesting arcticle. My belief is that any ISP has the right to control usage of their network. But this arcticle was most interesting because it was addressing what are the ethical ways to accomplish that. The last few sentances summarizing of the arcticle homing in on the issue. Basically bringing out that Comcast's action are unscrupulous because the actions are happening behind the scenes, hiding that they are the cause blocking the peer to peer trafic. They are misrepresenting their identity on the PCs (identity Fraud). But most importantly, they are intercepting someone else's data communication stream and barging in on the conversation (Invasion of Privacy). For example, simply blocking a BitTorrent or slowing iut down would be OK, as you aren't joining the conversation, just blocking it. But jumping in on the conversation and sending back false information across someone else's Bittorrent conversation is clearly a violation of privacy. Wait until they decide its a good idea to apply the same principle to Email delivery. Scary. These are the things I hate most. Companies blocking, but not being man enough to step up to the plate and tell their client base how they are blocking it. They are deceiving their clients. But yet, consumers are jumping to sign up, not being aware how they may be limited once they do. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:17 PM Subject: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071019/D8SCASQ80.html Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
Scottie Arnett wrote: Forgot to mention...if BT clients would not come with deafult connections set at 500 to 1000, I might allow it to. That is where it kills our equipment...the connections, not the bandwidth. Concur, and THAT is why I limit p2p traffic on my network. Frankly, I couldn't care less what my customers are downloading, only how they're downloading it. We all know that some really big percentage of p2p traffic is the sharing of copyrighted material that may be illegal to share, but saying that's the reason for throttling p2p traffic is probably pretty thorny, from a legal standpoint. Explaining it in technical terms (all these connections kills the tower and annoys other users) is safer, and as a bonus is completely true. It's actually more effective on many of my customers, who suddenly realize that the folks being affected by their selfish p2p downloads are friends and neighbors. Psychology, used correctly, can be just as effective as a Packeteer. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
I must say, I misworded my statements. We allow it, but throttle and shape it. If they fixed the problems with it, I would let it go full throttle should have been how I worded it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:52 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P Scottie Arnett wrote: Forgot to mention...if BT clients would not come with deafult connections set at 500 to 1000, I might allow it to. That is where it kills our equipment...the connections, not the bandwidth. Concur, and THAT is why I limit p2p traffic on my network. Frankly, I couldn't care less what my customers are downloading, only how they're downloading it. We all know that some really big percentage of p2p traffic is the sharing of copyrighted material that may be illegal to share, but saying that's the reason for throttling p2p traffic is probably pretty thorny, from a legal standpoint. Explaining it in technical terms (all these connections kills the tower and annoys other users) is safer, and as a bonus is completely true. It's actually more effective on many of my customers, who suddenly realize that the folks being affected by their selfish p2p downloads are friends and neighbors. Psychology, used correctly, can be just as effective as a Packeteer. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 2481 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
from a legal standpoint. Explaining it in technical terms (all these connections kills the tower and annoys other users) is safer, and as a bonus is completely true. It's actually more effective on many of my customers, who suddenly realize that the folks being affected by their selfish p2p downloads are friends and neighbors. Psychology, used correctly, can be just as effective as a Packeteer. Tell they switch too cable or dsl and say they did it because its not a problem there. Of course if they were major bandwidth hogs what the hey. Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
In my opinion, if they have something legit to transfer, they can setup and use ftp. It works faster anyways IMHO. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P 25 ?! You're lucky. If I stop my Mikrotik queues based on all-p2p matching via firewall mangles, the network will come to a stop because usage will go to 99%. I limit p2p down uploads to 1kbps. Sue me. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P I would have to agree. They did it to save costs, which includes bandwidth, transport, equipment upgrades, etc. If I run our network wide open (which I do from 6:00PM to 7:00AM), we see p2p traffic using 25% of our total bandwidth. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: On Fri, October 19, 2007 2:24 pm, Tom DeReggi wrote: Yeah right... It has nothing to do with saving Interconnect dollars. Comcast's download ratios are already way higher than upload even with BitTorrent full force, and probably are already getting paid for the peering relationships if anything because of their ratios. Given that I know nothing about the internals of Comcast's network, I strongly suspect this is not the case. They're not a Tier-1, and they don't generally offer transit. They're one of the biggest end-user ISPs in the States, and based on sheer volume they probably have some pretty sweet arrangements, but I really doubt they do enough hosting on their own that others are paying them for the privilege of talking to Comcast subs. What they are doing here is sending a message that if you Buy Comcast you get performance, if you buy from our competitors, you won;t ahve performance because we control the majority market, and we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. A majority of what market? Even as big as Comcast is, they're nowhere near 50% of America's broadband users, and if that's not the market you're referring to, I don't know what you do mean. Folks not using Comcast will have few or no problems with their p2p needs, as there are plenty of other ISPs in this country alone (and a couple hundred other countries as well). Meanwhile, folks using Comcast in markets where they're doing edge-p2p-filtering will get cranky because their friend on DSL can download (whatever warez-y stuff) 84 times faster, and may well leave Comcast because of it. When this first came to light a couple months ago, the nerd rage on Slashdot was positively palpable, and while it was probably 98% smoke, I doubt very much it was 100% smoke. Comcast has the right to do whatever they want - their network, their rules. Really, though, I just don't see WHY they would choose to make this particular move, if not to save on peering costs. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date:
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
In all fairness... This thread is not about whether it is right or wrong to block p2p. We probably all agree how harmful p2p traffic can be. Its essential to try and block it. The unsure part is What is an ethical way to block it. An ISP may have the right to define what goes accross its network, but an ISP does not have the right to re-write the constitution or federal law, on their own. And Competition laws, Privacy laws, Consumer Laws, and Identity Laws are things that exist. Just like Calea... the issue is privacy not necessarilly whether we feel its god or bad to help our country's law enforcement. It will be interesting to see how these topics play out. But more so how large providers will hide behind these excuses Protecting the Performance of their network to leverage their way around Network Neutrality issues, for their competitive advantage. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P Scottie Arnett wrote: Forgot to mention...if BT clients would not come with deafult connections set at 500 to 1000, I might allow it to. That is where it kills our equipment...the connections, not the bandwidth. Concur, and THAT is why I limit p2p traffic on my network. Frankly, I couldn't care less what my customers are downloading, only how they're downloading it. We all know that some really big percentage of p2p traffic is the sharing of copyrighted material that may be illegal to share, but saying that's the reason for throttling p2p traffic is probably pretty thorny, from a legal standpoint. Explaining it in technical terms (all these connections kills the tower and annoys other users) is safer, and as a bonus is completely true. It's actually more effective on many of my customers, who suddenly realize that the folks being affected by their selfish p2p downloads are friends and neighbors. Psychology, used correctly, can be just as effective as a Packeteer. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
because we control the majority market, and we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. My mistake, majority Market was not the right word. Almost Largest percentage of the market might be more appropriate. My understanding is that Comcast has the second largest share of Residential users next to TimeWarner. However, I'm not sure I understand your perspective on Comcast. I'll give you that Comcast is not in the market of selling Transit not a Tier1. But they definately peer. If they aren't charging others to access their eyeballs, they are fools, because they have the power, market share, and download ratios to demand it. Many of Comcast's markets, they are the sole single provider option (within similar price range), therefore have leverage to demand with less fear that their client base will move. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P On Fri, October 19, 2007 2:24 pm, Tom DeReggi wrote: Yeah right... It has nothing to do with saving Interconnect dollars. Comcast's download ratios are already way higher than upload even with BitTorrent full force, and probably are already getting paid for the peering relationships if anything because of their ratios. Given that I know nothing about the internals of Comcast's network, I strongly suspect this is not the case. They're not a Tier-1, and they don't generally offer transit. They're one of the biggest end-user ISPs in the States, and based on sheer volume they probably have some pretty sweet arrangements, but I really doubt they do enough hosting on their own that others are paying them for the privilege of talking to Comcast subs. What they are doing here is sending a message that if you Buy Comcast you get performance, if you buy from our competitors, you won;t ahve performance because we control the majority market, and we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. A majority of what market? Even as big as Comcast is, they're nowhere near 50% of America's broadband users, and if that's not the market you're referring to, I don't know what you do mean. Folks not using Comcast will have few or no problems with their p2p needs, as there are plenty of other ISPs in this country alone (and a couple hundred other countries as well). Meanwhile, folks using Comcast in markets where they're doing edge-p2p-filtering will get cranky because their friend on DSL can download (whatever warez-y stuff) 84 times faster, and may well leave Comcast because of it. When this first came to light a couple months ago, the nerd rage on Slashdot was positively palpable, and while it was probably 98% smoke, I doubt very much it was 100% smoke. Comcast has the right to do whatever they want - their network, their rules. Really, though, I just don't see WHY they would choose to make this particular move, if not to save on peering costs. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Friday Fun.
This week started out as a long one but evened out toward the end. Here are some fun pics to share: 1. How do we get to the tower again? I forget what road to follow? I wish all tower roads were labeled this well! http://www.irongoat.net/friday/WhatRoadToTheTower.jpg This road is north of where Marlon's wisp is at, about 10 miles South of the Grand Coulee Dam 2. Didn't I hear someone mention something about how lightning was attracted to lower impedance? Something about how loops were bad: http://www.irongoat.net/friday/impedance.jpg This is an ACTUAL Clearwire installation, with installs like these, do we really need to worry?! The tower crew knew it was not the right thing to do, but they told me that when they brought it up with the engineers in the home office they were told to just do their jobs and let the home office engineers do theirs. 3. Name that enclosure: http://www.irongoat.net/friday/ProPTP1.jpg and http://www.irongoat.net/friday/ProPTP1.jpg I think this one is manufactured by the Homer Co! This is an actual PTP link. When I looked up and saw that I about fell over. This is in Northern Idaho. 4. This is a serious request now kids, who makes this enclosure or where can I find one like this?! http://www.irongoat.net/friday/enclosure.jpg http://www.irongoat.net/friday/ProPTP1.jpg I see them everywhere. I want to use them as well as they have already been approved by the city/utility as attachable to their light standards. Everyone have a fun Friday and a great weekend. Next week will be better. :-) ryan ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
Funny this came up today in the paper. At this last weeks ISPCON, one of the hot finds us wisps were actively looking for on the tradeshow floor was bandwidth management appliance that we can use to control encrypted torrents and at the same time give the user high bandwidth for the other intermitant applications. I didn't hear anyone saying they wanted to turn off the torrents or p2p, but rather control it so it plays nice with the network. A couple names that came up was Imagestream, who says they can control the amount of connections to help control p2p. Jeff will step in and correct me if I'm wrong. And then there was Dennis' Itenic bandwidth manager that is supposed to work. And on the ispcon floor there was a couple other companies that had products they too said they could control p2p. So this article is like a bulls eye for a hot topic. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] getting a Tranzeo TR5A back to defaults
I've had these in storage for awhile and I misplaced both my standard and recovery userids and passwords. Does anyone know how to get these back to factory defaults or is there a backdoor to get in? Thanks, Leon -- *Leon Zetekoff* Proprietor *Work:* 484-335-9920 *Mobile:* 610-223-8642 *Fax:* 484-335-9921 *Email:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *http://www.linkedin.com/in/leonzetekoff* *BackWoods Wireless* http://www.backwoodswireless.net 505 B Main Street http://maps.google.com/maps?q=505+B+Main+Street%2CBlandon%2CPA+19510hl=en Blandon, PA 19510 Bringing Broadband Technology to Rural Areas See who we know in common http://www.linkedin.com/e/wwk/1265359/ Want a signature like this? http://www.linkedin.com/e/sig/1265359/ begin:vcard fn:Leon Zetekoff n:Zetekoff;Leon org:BackWoods Wireless adr;dom:;;505 B Main Street;Blandon;PA;19510 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Owner tel;work:484-335-9920 tel;fax:484-335-9921 tel;home:610-916-0230 tel;cell:610-223-8642 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://www.backwoodswireless.net version:2.1 end:vcard ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
Mikrotik can control raw connections as well, but UDP is not connection based. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 8:30 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P Funny this came up today in the paper. At this last weeks ISPCON, one of the hot finds us wisps were actively looking for on the tradeshow floor was bandwidth management appliance that we can use to control encrypted torrents and at the same time give the user high bandwidth for the other intermitant applications. I didn't hear anyone saying they wanted to turn off the torrents or p2p, but rather control it so it plays nice with the network. A couple names that came up was Imagestream, who says they can control the amount of connections to help control p2p. Jeff will step in and correct me if I'm wrong. And then there was Dennis' Itenic bandwidth manager that is supposed to work. And on the ispcon floor there was a couple other companies that had products they too said they could control p2p. So this article is like a bulls eye for a hot topic. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
What gets you peers is a balanced ratio. If it exceeds a certain ratio, whomever is the one that initiates the transaction is usually the one that pays. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 7:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P because we control the majority market, and we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. My mistake, majority Market was not the right word. Almost Largest percentage of the market might be more appropriate. My understanding is that Comcast has the second largest share of Residential users next to TimeWarner. However, I'm not sure I understand your perspective on Comcast. I'll give you that Comcast is not in the market of selling Transit not a Tier1. But they definately peer. If they aren't charging others to access their eyeballs, they are fools, because they have the power, market share, and download ratios to demand it. Many of Comcast's markets, they are the sole single provider option (within similar price range), therefore have leverage to demand with less fear that their client base will move. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P On Fri, October 19, 2007 2:24 pm, Tom DeReggi wrote: Yeah right... It has nothing to do with saving Interconnect dollars. Comcast's download ratios are already way higher than upload even with BitTorrent full force, and probably are already getting paid for the peering relationships if anything because of their ratios. Given that I know nothing about the internals of Comcast's network, I strongly suspect this is not the case. They're not a Tier-1, and they don't generally offer transit. They're one of the biggest end-user ISPs in the States, and based on sheer volume they probably have some pretty sweet arrangements, but I really doubt they do enough hosting on their own that others are paying them for the privilege of talking to Comcast subs. What they are doing here is sending a message that if you Buy Comcast you get performance, if you buy from our competitors, you won;t ahve performance because we control the majority market, and we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. A majority of what market? Even as big as Comcast is, they're nowhere near 50% of America's broadband users, and if that's not the market you're referring to, I don't know what you do mean. Folks not using Comcast will have few or no problems with their p2p needs, as there are plenty of other ISPs in this country alone (and a couple hundred other countries as well). Meanwhile, folks using Comcast in markets where they're doing edge-p2p-filtering will get cranky because their friend on DSL can download (whatever warez-y stuff) 84 times faster, and may well leave Comcast because of it. When this first came to light a couple months ago, the nerd rage on Slashdot was positively palpable, and while it was probably 98% smoke, I doubt very much it was 100% smoke. Comcast has the right to do whatever they want - their network, their rules. Really, though, I just don't see WHY they would choose to make this particular move, if not to save on peering costs. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at
Re: [SPAM] [WISPA] getting a Tranzeo TR5A back to defaults
Call Tranzeo support and give them the Mac Address and they will give you a password to get back in. Frank Brightlan LLC - Original Message - From: Leon D. Zetekoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 9:46 PM Subject: [SPAM] [WISPA] getting a Tranzeo TR5A back to defaults I've had these in storage for awhile and I misplaced both my standard and recovery userids and passwords. Does anyone know how to get these back to factory defaults or is there a backdoor to get in? Thanks, Leon -- *Leon Zetekoff* Proprietor *Work:* 484-335-9920 *Mobile:* 610-223-8642 *Fax:* 484-335-9921 *Email:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *http://www.linkedin.com/in/leonzetekoff* *BackWoods Wireless* http://www.backwoodswireless.net 505 B Main Street http://maps.google.com/maps?q=505+B+Main+Street%2CBlandon%2CPA+19510hl=en Blandon, PA 19510 Bringing Broadband Technology to Rural Areas See who we know in common http://www.linkedin.com/e/wwk/1265359/ Want a signature like this? http://www.linkedin.com/e/sig/1265359/ -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] getting a Tranzeo TR5A back to defaults
You find them using the CPE locator from support.tranzeo.com Once you are able to get a username/password prompt via a web- interface you call Tranzeo with the MAC address. They give you a backdoor password and away you go. ryan On Oct 19, 2007, at 6:46 PM, Leon D. Zetekoff wrote: I've had these in storage for awhile and I misplaced both my standard and recovery userids and passwords. Does anyone know how to get these back to factory defaults or is there a backdoor to get in? Thanks, Leon -- *Leon Zetekoff* Proprietor *Work:* 484-335-9920 *Mobile:* 610-223-8642 *Fax:* 484-335-9921 *Email:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *http://www.linkedin.com/in/leonzetekoff* *BackWoods Wireless* http://www.backwoodswireless.net 505 B Main Street http://maps.google.com/maps?q=505+B+Main+Street%2CBlandon%2CPA +19510hl=en Blandon, PA 19510 Bringing Broadband Technology to Rural Areas See who we know in common http://www.linkedin.com/e/wwk/1265359/ Want a signature like this? http://www.linkedin.com/e/sig/1265359/ wa4zlw.vcf -- -- ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http:// www.ispcon.com/register.php ** -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Friday Fun.
This week started out as a long one but evened out toward the end… Here are some fun pics to share: 1. How do we get to the tower again? I forget what road to follow? I wish all tower roads were labeled this well! http://www.irongoat.net/friday/WhatRoadToTheTower.jpg This road is north of where Marlon’s wisp is at, about 10 miles South of the Grand Coulee Dam 2. Didn’t I hear someone mention something about how lightning was attracted to lower impedance? Something about how loops were bad: http://www.irongoat.net/friday/impedance.jpg This is an ACTUAL Clearwire installation, with installs like these, do we really need to worry?! The tower crew knew it was not the right thing to do, but they told me that when they brought it up with the engineers in the home office they were told to just do their jobs and let the home office engineers do theirs. 3. Name that enclosure: http://www.irongoat.net/friday/ProPTP1.jpg and http://www.irongoat.net/friday/ProPTP1.jpg I think this one is manufactured by the Homer Co! This is an actual PTP link. When I looked up and saw that I about fell over. This is in Northern Idaho. 4. This is a serious request now kids, who makes this enclosure or where can I find one like this?! http://www.irongoat.net/friday/enclosure.jpg http://www.irongoat.net/friday/ProPTP1.jpg I see them everywhere. I want to use them as well as they have already been “approved” by the city/utility as attachable to their light standards. Everyone have a fun Friday and a great weekend. Next week will be better. :-) ryan ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Mike Hammett wrote: Mikrotik can control raw connections as well, but UDP is not connection based. Absolutely correct. However, the linux iptables connection tracking does not care if it is UDP or TCP. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
Mikrotik just released a new update today with "improved warez/ares p2p protocol matching". Travis Microserv Matt wrote: 25 ?! You're lucky. If I stop my Mikrotik queues based on all-p2p matching via firewall mangles, the network will come to a stop because usage will go to 99%. I limit p2p down uploads to 1kbps. Sue me. My experience anymore is Mikrotik cannot do a very good job at catching it anymore. They encrypt the packets now days to make it very difficult. I still think the best option is to let users eat as much as they want but at peak times throttle the bandwidth hogs back to make sure it works well for everyone else. Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
I was talking on my backbone to my upstreams... which is currently running at 105Mbps incoming x 45Mbps outgoing. 25% of the incoming is p2p if I turn off my queues. I don't see how 99% of your traffic could be p2p, because people will still be surfing and checking email, etc. which will have to get shared as the nature of tcp allows. Travis Microserv Smith, Rick wrote: 25 ?! You're lucky. If I stop my Mikrotik queues based on all-p2p matching via firewall mangles, the network will come to a stop because usage will go to 99%. I limit p2p down uploads to 1kbps. Sue me. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P I would have to agree. They did it to save costs, which includes bandwidth, transport, equipment upgrades, etc. If I run our network wide open (which I do from 6:00PM to 7:00AM), we see p2p traffic using 25% of our total bandwidth. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: On Fri, October 19, 2007 2:24 pm, Tom DeReggi wrote: Yeah right... It has nothing to do with saving Interconnect dollars. Comcast's download ratios are already way higher than upload even with BitTorrent full force, and probably are already getting paid for the peering relationships if anything because of their ratios. Given that I know nothing about the internals of Comcast's network, I strongly suspect this is not the case. They're not a Tier-1, and they don't generally offer transit. They're one of the biggest end-user ISPs in the States, and based on sheer volume they probably have some pretty sweet arrangements, but I really doubt they do enough hosting on their own that others are paying them for the privilege of talking to Comcast subs. What they are doing here is sending a message that if you Buy Comcast you get performance, if you buy from our competitors, you won;t ahve performance because we control the majority market, and we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. A majority of what market? Even as big as Comcast is, they're nowhere near 50% of America's broadband users, and if that's not the market you're referring to, I don't know what you do mean. Folks not using Comcast will have few or no problems with their p2p needs, as there are plenty of other ISPs in this country alone (and a couple hundred other countries as well). Meanwhile, folks using Comcast in markets where they're doing edge-p2p-filtering will get cranky because their friend on DSL can download (whatever warez-y stuff) 84 times faster, and may well leave Comcast because of it. When this first came to light a couple months ago, the nerd rage on Slashdot was positively palpable, and while it was probably 98% smoke, I doubt very much it was 100% smoke. Comcast has the right to do whatever they want - their network, their rules. Really, though, I just don't see WHY they would choose to make this particular move, if not to save on peering costs. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the
RE: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
Forgot to mention...if BT clients would not come with deafult connections set at 500 to 1000, I might allow it to. That is where it kills our equipment...the connections, not the bandwidth. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P Scottie Arnett wrote: In my opinion, if they have something legit to transfer, they can setup and use ftp. It works faster anyways IMHO. You've obviously never been on a well-seeded torrent. :) Seriously, plug yourself into your NOC right after a big Linux release (the new version of Ubuntu, released earlier this week, would be a good example). One of the fellows in my office did this yesterday, and was pulling about 30Mbps for the (very brief) time he needed to download the CD image. You may need a fairly new computer, to be sure the networking stack and hard drive can keep up. A few years back, I did this same experiment with an older notebook; somewhere around 8Mbps, the laptop just locked up, and the hard drive (which was audibly crunching from all the random writes being asked of it) never worked again :( Not many Web sites or FTP servers, aside from ones set up specifically for this sort of thing, match that speed. The best downloads I normally get from Microsoft (presumably an Akamai mirror of them, actually) is maybe 10-15Mbps. From a purely technical standpoint, BitTorrent is amazingly efficient at distributing copies of bits. It's those other things like economics that are such a problem at times... David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 2481 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
25 ?! You're lucky. If I stop my Mikrotik queues based on all-p2p matching via firewall mangles, the network will come to a stop because usage will go to 99%. I limit p2p down uploads to 1kbps. Sue me. My experience anymore is Mikrotik cannot do a very good job at catching it anymore. They encrypt the packets now days to make it very difficult. I still think the best option is to let users eat as much as they want but at peak times throttle the bandwidth hogs back to make sure it works well for everyone else. Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
I can understand what you are saying, it BT is an efficient way to send data. The problem lies in the 99.998% of what is transferred is illegal files that are copyrighted. If BT could take care of that problem, I might allow it on my network. For now, I use ftp. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 4:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P Scottie Arnett wrote: In my opinion, if they have something legit to transfer, they can setup and use ftp. It works faster anyways IMHO. You've obviously never been on a well-seeded torrent. :) Seriously, plug yourself into your NOC right after a big Linux release (the new version of Ubuntu, released earlier this week, would be a good example). One of the fellows in my office did this yesterday, and was pulling about 30Mbps for the (very brief) time he needed to download the CD image. You may need a fairly new computer, to be sure the networking stack and hard drive can keep up. A few years back, I did this same experiment with an older notebook; somewhere around 8Mbps, the laptop just locked up, and the hard drive (which was audibly crunching from all the random writes being asked of it) never worked again :( Not many Web sites or FTP servers, aside from ones set up specifically for this sort of thing, match that speed. The best downloads I normally get from Microsoft (presumably an Akamai mirror of them, actually) is maybe 10-15Mbps. From a purely technical standpoint, BitTorrent is amazingly efficient at distributing copies of bits. It's those other things like economics that are such a problem at times... David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 2481 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
Except for the growing number of perfectly legal things available via P2P systems (Linux discs, updates for Blizzard Entertainment's World of Warcraft which surpassed 9 million subscribers in July, Wikipedia CD, OpenOffice, I've heard that Steam's 13 million users might be adopting P2P). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P In my opinion, if they have something legit to transfer, they can setup and use ftp. It works faster anyways IMHO. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P 25 ?! You're lucky. If I stop my Mikrotik queues based on all-p2p matching via firewall mangles, the network will come to a stop because usage will go to 99%. I limit p2p down uploads to 1kbps. Sue me. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P I would have to agree. They did it to save costs, which includes bandwidth, transport, equipment upgrades, etc. If I run our network wide open (which I do from 6:00PM to 7:00AM), we see p2p traffic using 25% of our total bandwidth. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: On Fri, October 19, 2007 2:24 pm, Tom DeReggi wrote: Yeah right... It has nothing to do with saving Interconnect dollars. Comcast's download ratios are already way higher than upload even with BitTorrent full force, and probably are already getting paid for the peering relationships if anything because of their ratios. Given that I know nothing about the internals of Comcast's network, I strongly suspect this is not the case. They're not a Tier-1, and they don't generally offer transit. They're one of the biggest end-user ISPs in the States, and based on sheer volume they probably have some pretty sweet arrangements, but I really doubt they do enough hosting on their own that others are paying them for the privilege of talking to Comcast subs. What they are doing here is sending a message that if you Buy Comcast you get performance, if you buy from our competitors, you won;t ahve performance because we control the majority market, and we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. A majority of what market? Even as big as Comcast is, they're nowhere near 50% of America's broadband users, and if that's not the market you're referring to, I don't know what you do mean. Folks not using Comcast will have few or no problems with their p2p needs, as there are plenty of other ISPs in this country alone (and a couple hundred other countries as well). Meanwhile, folks using Comcast in markets where they're doing edge-p2p-filtering will get cranky because their friend on DSL can download (whatever warez-y stuff) 84 times faster, and may well leave Comcast because of it. When this first came to light a couple months ago, the nerd rage on Slashdot was positively palpable, and while it was probably 98% smoke, I doubt very much it was 100% smoke. Comcast has the right to do whatever they want - their network, their rules. Really, though, I just don't see WHY they would choose to make this particular move, if not to save on peering costs. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
Except for the growing number of perfectly legal things available via P2P systems (Linux discs, updates for Blizzard Entertainment's World of Warcraft which surpassed 9 million subscribers in July, Wikipedia CD, OpenOffice, I've heard that Steam's 13 million users might be adopting P2P). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Scottie Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P In my opinion, if they have something legit to transfer, they can setup and use ftp. It works faster anyways IMHO. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P 25 ?! You're lucky. If I stop my Mikrotik queues based on all-p2p matching via firewall mangles, the network will come to a stop because usage will go to 99%. I limit p2p down uploads to 1kbps. Sue me. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P I would have to agree. They did it to save costs, which includes bandwidth, transport, equipment upgrades, etc. If I run our network wide open (which I do from 6:00PM to 7:00AM), we see p2p traffic using 25% of our total bandwidth. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: On Fri, October 19, 2007 2:24 pm, Tom DeReggi wrote: Yeah right... It has nothing to do with saving Interconnect dollars. Comcast's download ratios are already way higher than upload even with BitTorrent full force, and probably are already getting paid for the peering relationships if anything because of their ratios. Given that I know nothing about the internals of Comcast's network, I strongly suspect this is not the case. They're not a Tier-1, and they don't generally offer transit. They're one of the biggest end-user ISPs in the States, and based on sheer volume they probably have some pretty sweet arrangements, but I really doubt they do enough hosting on their own that others are paying them for the privilege of talking to Comcast subs. What they are doing here is sending a message that if you Buy Comcast you get performance, if you buy from our competitors, you won;t ahve performance because we control the majority market, and we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. A majority of what market? Even as big as Comcast is, they're nowhere near 50% of America's broadband users, and if that's not the market you're referring to, I don't know what you do mean. Folks not using Comcast will have few or no problems with their p2p needs, as there are plenty of other ISPs in this country alone (and a couple hundred other countries as well). Meanwhile, folks using Comcast in markets where they're doing edge-p2p-filtering will get cranky because their friend on DSL can download (whatever warez-y stuff) 84 times faster, and may well leave Comcast because of it. When this first came to light a couple months ago, the nerd rage on Slashdot was positively palpable, and while it was probably 98% smoke, I doubt very much it was 100% smoke. Comcast has the right to do whatever they want - their network, their rules. Really, though, I just don't see WHY they would choose to make this particular move, if not to save on peering costs. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
Scottie Arnett wrote: In my opinion, if they have something legit to transfer, they can setup and use ftp. It works faster anyways IMHO. You've obviously never been on a well-seeded torrent. :) Seriously, plug yourself into your NOC right after a big Linux release (the new version of Ubuntu, released earlier this week, would be a good example). One of the fellows in my office did this yesterday, and was pulling about 30Mbps for the (very brief) time he needed to download the CD image. You may need a fairly new computer, to be sure the networking stack and hard drive can keep up. A few years back, I did this same experiment with an older notebook; somewhere around 8Mbps, the laptop just locked up, and the hard drive (which was audibly crunching from all the random writes being asked of it) never worked again :( Not many Web sites or FTP servers, aside from ones set up specifically for this sort of thing, match that speed. The best downloads I normally get from Microsoft (presumably an Akamai mirror of them, actually) is maybe 10-15Mbps. From a purely technical standpoint, BitTorrent is amazingly efficient at distributing copies of bits. It's those other things like economics that are such a problem at times... David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
25 ?! You're lucky. If I stop my Mikrotik queues based on all-p2p matching via firewall mangles, the network will come to a stop because usage will go to 99%. I limit p2p down uploads to 1kbps. Sue me. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P I would have to agree. They did it to save costs, which includes bandwidth, transport, equipment upgrades, etc. If I run our network wide open (which I do from 6:00PM to 7:00AM), we see p2p traffic using 25% of our total bandwidth. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: On Fri, October 19, 2007 2:24 pm, Tom DeReggi wrote: Yeah right... It has nothing to do with saving Interconnect dollars. Comcast's download ratios are already way higher than upload even with BitTorrent full force, and probably are already getting paid for the peering relationships if anything because of their ratios. Given that I know nothing about the internals of Comcast's network, I strongly suspect this is not the case. They're not a Tier-1, and they don't generally offer transit. They're one of the biggest end-user ISPs in the States, and based on sheer volume they probably have some pretty sweet arrangements, but I really doubt they do enough hosting on their own that others are paying them for the privilege of talking to Comcast subs. What they are doing here is sending a message that if you Buy Comcast you get performance, if you buy from our competitors, you won;t ahve performance because we control the majority market, and we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. A majority of what market? Even as big as Comcast is, they're nowhere near 50% of America's broadband users, and if that's not the market you're referring to, I don't know what you do mean. Folks not using Comcast will have few or no problems with their p2p needs, as there are plenty of other ISPs in this country alone (and a couple hundred other countries as well). Meanwhile, folks using Comcast in markets where they're doing edge-p2p-filtering will get cranky because their friend on DSL can download (whatever warez-y stuff) 84 times faster, and may well leave Comcast because of it. When this first came to light a couple months ago, the nerd rage on Slashdot was positively palpable, and while it was probably 98% smoke, I doubt very much it was 100% smoke. Comcast has the right to do whatever they want - their network, their rules. Really, though, I just don't see WHY they would choose to make this particular move, if not to save on peering costs. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
On Fri, October 19, 2007 2:24 pm, Tom DeReggi wrote: Yeah right... It has nothing to do with saving Interconnect dollars. Comcast's download ratios are already way higher than upload even with BitTorrent full force, and probably are already getting paid for the peering relationships if anything because of their ratios. Given that I know nothing about the internals of Comcast's network, I strongly suspect this is not the case. They're not a Tier-1, and they don't generally offer transit. They're one of the biggest end-user ISPs in the States, and based on sheer volume they probably have some pretty sweet arrangements, but I really doubt they do enough hosting on their own that others are paying them for the privilege of talking to Comcast subs. What they are doing here is sending a message that if you Buy Comcast you get performance, if you buy from our competitors, you won;t ahve performance because we control the majority market, and we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. A majority of what market? Even as big as Comcast is, they're nowhere near 50% of America's broadband users, and if that's not the market you're referring to, I don't know what you do mean. Folks not using Comcast will have few or no problems with their p2p needs, as there are plenty of other ISPs in this country alone (and a couple hundred other countries as well). Meanwhile, folks using Comcast in markets where they're doing edge-p2p-filtering will get cranky because their friend on DSL can download (whatever warez-y stuff) 84 times faster, and may well leave Comcast because of it. When this first came to light a couple months ago, the nerd rage on Slashdot was positively palpable, and while it was probably 98% smoke, I doubt very much it was 100% smoke. Comcast has the right to do whatever they want - their network, their rules. Really, though, I just don't see WHY they would choose to make this particular move, if not to save on peering costs. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Tom DeReggi wrote: What they are doing here is sending a message that if you Buy Comcast you get performance, if you buy from our competitors, you Isn't that an ideal public perception? I mean, if I could get people to understand that one reason my network is better than network X is performance (or any other aspect), then that is beneficial, right? Come on...this is an argument FOR what Comcast is doing, IMHO. we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. This is EXACTLY what NetNetrality is about, having a different standard for clients of another provider than one has for their Net Neutrality is BS anyway. (Hope I can abbreviate the curse word). And this move has NOTHING to do with neutrality anyway. Perhaps an argument can be made to make it seem that way, but it is (at least in part) about network management. I see nothing wrong with what Comcast did. In fact, I applaud their willingness to stand up and say enough is enough. The simple fact is that this software is a killer app (not the kind we were looking for, but one that is killer to the network). own. If they Equally blocked BitTotrrent for their own subscribers, then it could be argued they are treating all traffic equally, and not a NetNetrality violation, but just a Privacy violation. Privacy? Give me a break. I'll post a response to your other post related to privacy, but the idea that it can be argued that equally blocking bit torrent flows in both directions is the best way to handle this traffic is nonsense. More in my next post... -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, George Rogato wrote: A couple names that came up was Imagestream, who says they can control the amount of connections to help control p2p. Jeff will step in and correct me if I'm wrong. You are correct. Mikrotik can do the same. ANY Linux based system can limit connections, because it's built into iptables. Frankly, this is the method I use to set up QOS (part of it, anyway), because it is the ONLY effective way to limit the negative impact of these torrents. Which, by the way, is (IMHO) a VERY accurate name (note definitions 2 and 4). tor??rent - noun 1. a stream of water flowing with great rapidity and violence. 2. a rushing, violent, or abundant and unceasing stream of anything: a torrent of lava. 3. a violent downpour of rain. 4. a violent, tumultuous, or overwhelming flow: a torrent of abuse. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Intrameta / BOSS
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kris R Efland Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 11:00 AM To: WISPA General List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WISPA] Intrameta / BOSS Ryan, I don't know if you were talking about USA Mobility's data centers our ours, but I can assure you that USA Mobility is not one of our customers, neither are MetroCall or Arch Paging. I can also attest that we have no tin foil (or vacuum tubes) in any of our data centers. :) I was not talking about your datacenters, please re-read your mail. An example of one of our data centers is our Houston facility at Internap's facility downtown, over 30 machines, all fully clustered with over 6 TB of live data asynchronously replicated with our other data center in Dallas, using our own proprietary messaging fabric that gives us guaranteed delivery. This facility was active during hurricane Rita which hit downtown Houston, result: 0% packet loss to customers on both coasts. that is excellent, the next time I need to have access to something like that I will seek you out. As I am sure everyone else on the list will as well. As a rule, we provide SLA's for all our customers, we understand how critical their back office is to their business. They are guaranteed uptime, and we have never had to compensate anyone for an outage. One of the major benefits of our platform is that it gives the smaller guys access to facilities that cost in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and they know exactly what that 'infrastructure' cost will be per-sub, per-month every time they sign up a new user. We have a sample case study on our web site if anyone is interested. Cool! I will note this in my stock to buy list. Thanks! ryan Regards, Kris Efland IntraMeta Corporation t. 972.231.5999 f. 972.231.7022 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Intrameta / BOSS Have you seen some of the hardware they use?! In one of my colo towers I looked in their rack. I think I saw both a vacuum tube and a roll of tin foil in there! That rack must have put out 1500W of heat as well. They have since upgraded the equipment so perhaps USAMobility is pulling out of a dive. ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron D. Osgood Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 8:44 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Intrameta / BOSS While I have not personally dug very deep - I know that USAMobility (formerly known as Arch Paging / MetroCall paging) use it and it seems to go down frequently. My suspicion is that the outages are more Hardware related than Software related Aaron D. Osgood Streamline Solutions L.L.C P.O. Box 6115 Falmouth, ME 04105 TEL: 207-781-5561 FAX: 207-781-8067 MOBILE: 207-831-5829 PAGE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AOLIM: OzCom1 ICQ: 206889374 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.streamline-solutions.net http://www.WMDaWARe.com Introducing Efficiency to Business since 1986. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zachery Wolfinger Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 9:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Intrameta / BOSS Any here use the BOSS software from Intrameta to manage their customer / radio / other data? We are evaluating them and would appreciate experience from the field. Thank you, Zak Wolfinger IT Director CyberLink International Phone: 888-293-3693 Ext. 4357 Fax: 888-293-3995 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php **
RE: [WISPA] Intrameta / BOSS
Ryan, I don't know if you were talking about USA Mobility's data centers our ours, but I can assure you that USA Mobility is not one of our customers, neither are MetroCall or Arch Paging. I can also attest that we have no tin foil (or vacuum tubes) in any of our data centers. :) An example of one of our data centers is our Houston facility at Internap's facility downtown, over 30 machines, all fully clustered with over 6 TB of live data asynchronously replicated with our other data center in Dallas, using our own proprietary messaging fabric that gives us guaranteed delivery. This facility was active during hurricane Rita which hit downtown Houston, result: 0% packet loss to customers on both coasts. As a rule, we provide SLA's for all our customers, we understand how critical their back office is to their business. They are guaranteed uptime, and we have never had to compensate anyone for an outage. One of the major benefits of our platform is that it gives the smaller guys access to facilities that cost in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and they know exactly what that 'infrastructure' cost will be per-sub, per-month every time they sign up a new user. We have a sample case study on our web site if anyone is interested. Regards, Kris Efland IntraMeta Corporation t. 972.231.5999 f. 972.231.7022 e. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 1:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Intrameta / BOSS Have you seen some of the hardware they use?! In one of my colo towers I looked in their rack. I think I saw both a vacuum tube and a roll of tin foil in there! That rack must have put out 1500W of heat as well. They have since upgraded the equipment so perhaps USAMobility is pulling out of a dive. ryan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Aaron D. Osgood Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 8:44 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Intrameta / BOSS While I have not personally dug very deep - I know that USAMobility (formerly known as Arch Paging / MetroCall paging) use it and it seems to go down frequently. My suspicion is that the outages are more Hardware related than Software related Aaron D. Osgood Streamline Solutions L.L.C P.O. Box 6115 Falmouth, ME 04105 TEL: 207-781-5561 FAX: 207-781-8067 MOBILE: 207-831-5829 PAGE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AOLIM: OzCom1 ICQ: 206889374 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.streamline-solutions.net http://www.WMDaWARe.com Introducing Efficiency to Business since 1986. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zachery Wolfinger Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 9:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Intrameta / BOSS Any here use the BOSS software from Intrameta to manage their customer / radio / other data? We are evaluating them and would appreciate experience from the field. Thank you, Zak Wolfinger IT Director CyberLink International Phone: 888-293-3693 Ext. 4357 Fax: 888-293-3995 ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 -
[WISPA] Tranzeo TR-FDD-32-GT
I wanted to see if anyone had experience with these Tranzeo full duplex links? We have a longer shot that we are looking to upgrade and it is in a very noisy area RF wise. I was reading a bit on the channel shields that you order with these Tranzeo units and wanted to know how well they actually worked to mitigate interference? Also, can the unit be deployed without the channel shield initially until an operating channel is decided on? Any and all comments appreciated… ___ Don Annas Triad Telecom, Inc. 336.510.3800 x111 336.510.3801 FAX [EMAIL PROTECTED] HYPERLINK http://www.TriadTelecom.comwww.TriadTelecom.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1078 - Release Date: 10/18/2007 5:47 PM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
I would have to agree. They did it to save costs, which includes bandwidth, transport, equipment upgrades, etc. If I run our network wide open (which I do from 6:00PM to 7:00AM), we see p2p traffic using 25% of our total bandwidth. Travis Microserv David E. Smith wrote: On Fri, October 19, 2007 2:24 pm, Tom DeReggi wrote: Yeah right... It has nothing to do with saving Interconnect dollars. Comcast's download ratios are already way higher than upload even with BitTorrent full force, and probably are already getting paid for the peering relationships if anything because of their ratios. Given that I know nothing about the internals of Comcast's network, I strongly suspect this is not the case. They're not a Tier-1, and they don't generally offer transit. They're one of the biggest end-user ISPs in the States, and based on sheer volume they probably have some pretty sweet arrangements, but I really doubt they do enough hosting on their own that others are paying them for the privilege of talking to Comcast subs. What they are doing here is sending a message that if you Buy Comcast you get performance, if you buy from our competitors, you won;t ahve performance because we control the majority market, and we won't let you play with our clients in a favorable manner. A majority of what market? Even as big as Comcast is, they're nowhere near 50% of America's broadband users, and if that's not the market you're referring to, I don't know what you do mean. Folks not using Comcast will have few or no problems with their p2p needs, as there are plenty of other ISPs in this country alone (and a couple hundred other countries as well). Meanwhile, folks using Comcast in markets where they're doing edge-p2p-filtering will get cranky because their friend on DSL can download (whatever warez-y stuff) 84 times faster, and may well leave Comcast because of it. When this first came to light a couple months ago, the nerd rage on Slashdot was positively palpable, and while it was probably 98% smoke, I doubt very much it was 100% smoke. Comcast has the right to do whatever they want - their network, their rules. Really, though, I just don't see WHY they would choose to make this particular move, if not to save on peering costs. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
CHUCK PROFITO wrote: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071019/D8SCASQ80.html Comcast has been doing this for a few months, actually. By most accounts, the traffic is throttled at their network edges - i.e. two Comcast customers can trade files all they want, the throttling only kicks in when one of them tries to exchange data with a non-Comcast peer. My network throttles peer-to-peer traffic because that traffic does really nasty things to our customer APs (the last-mile hop). Comcast isn't doing anything there, according to the reports I've seen. They're probably trying to save a few bucks on interconnectivity and peering agreements, on the assumption that traffic within their already-existing network is free. David Smith MVN.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Tom DeReggi wrote: Interesting arcticle. Certainly it was. It was well written BS! My belief is that any ISP has the right to control usage of their network. But this arcticle was most interesting because it was addressing what are the ethical ways to accomplish that. The last We are in agreement on your first sentence, but the second begins the issue I have with what appears to be a stance that I would disagree with. few sentances summarizing of the arcticle homing in on the issue. Basically bringing out that Comcast's action are unscrupulous because the actions are happening behind the scenes, hiding that This part I agree with, too. If they are attempting to hide the fact that they are doing it, then that is, in my opinion, a poor decision. These days, you can't get away with that sort of thing. they are the cause blocking the peer to peer trafic. They are misrepresenting their identity on the PCs (identity Fraud). But This is an inaccurate assumption and application of the term identity fraud. What they are (most likely) doing is sending a TCP reset packet, which is the best way to accomplish the task. most importantly, they are intercepting someone else's data communication stream and barging in on the conversation (Invasion of Privacy). Get real. Invasion of privacy? You are serious? This is in NO WAY close to invasion of privacy. They are simply interrupting a communication that they do no wish to transport on their network. If they were capturing the data, parsing it and looking to see who was talking to who and what they are saying, then I'd be more inclined to agree. Is running a proxy server on your network an invasion of privacy? Log files from a squid server get closer to permitting a true invasion of privacy that what Comcast is doing. For example, simply blocking a BitTorrent or slowing iut down would be OK, as you aren't joining the conversation, just blocking it. But jumping in on the conversation and sending back false information across someone else's Bittorrent conversation is clearly a violation of privacy. That is is a violation of privacy is not so clear to me. In fact, I can't even stretch and say that I think it is remotely similar to invasion of privacy. This is simply a non-issue, unless they are parsing the data of an individual subscriber, which they MAY be doing, but it is another topic that is not related to their handling of Bittorrent. Wait until they decide its a good idea to apply the same principle to Email delivery. Scary. Hmmm...I have done something similar with email as well. Mail destined for my mail server where the rate of new connections exceeds a threshold from a single IP will get you in an address list of folks that will see nothing but tarpit responses from my firewall. Does this qualify as scary? I think you are WAY over the top on this one, Tom. I generally appreciate your reasoned responses, but this, IMHO, is a bit too much. I did not intend to be offensive in my responses, and I would ask that you accept my apologies offered in advance if they come across that way. These are the things I hate most. Companies blocking, but not being man enough to step up to the plate and tell their client base how they are blocking it. They are deceiving their clients. But yet, If they are deceiving customers, then the market will discover this and they will pay. I am not so certain that they don't disclose this to new customers. For me, we always notified our customers that running a server on the network was not allowed, and even included a reference to fileshare apps in that paragraph of the AUP. Any changes I made to the network usage policy, could (in some cases) require an update to the AUP, which was available online and was made available to new subs. I did not, however, inform customers when this policy was updated. consumers are jumping to sign up, not being aware how they may be limited once they do. Most users don't understand the issue at all. Many of them are completely unaware of the harm they are doing to the network, and are, generally, understanding once it is explained to them. Comcast is simply turning off the ability for users to UPLOAD via bittorrent. This will affect a small number (percentage) of users, and is well within their rights to do. If they pay a price in attrition, then it will prove to be a bad choice, but I, for one, think they will gain rather than lose as a result of this choice. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** **
Re: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P
Interesting arcticle. My belief is that any ISP has the right to control usage of their network. But this arcticle was most interesting because it was addressing what are the ethical ways to accomplish that. The last few sentances summarizing of the arcticle homing in on the issue. Basically bringing out that Comcast's action are unscrupulous because the actions are happening behind the scenes, hiding that they are the cause blocking the peer to peer trafic. They are misrepresenting their identity on the PCs (identity Fraud). But most importantly, they are intercepting someone else's data communication stream and barging in on the conversation (Invasion of Privacy). For example, simply blocking a BitTorrent or slowing iut down would be OK, as you aren't joining the conversation, just blocking it. But jumping in on the conversation and sending back false information across someone else's Bittorrent conversation is clearly a violation of privacy. Wait until they decide its a good idea to apply the same principle to Email delivery. Scary. These are the things I hate most. Companies blocking, but not being man enough to step up to the plate and tell their client base how they are blocking it. They are deceiving their clients. But yet, consumers are jumping to sign up, not being aware how they may be limited once they do. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:17 PM Subject: [WISPA] Look how ComCast deals with P2P http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071019/D8SCASQ80.html Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.15.1/1079 - Release Date: 10/19/2007 5:10 AM ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
