[WISPA] Comcast Allegedly Packs FCC Hearing to Keep Opponents Out
http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/top-5/2008/02/26/Comcast-FCC-Hearing-Strategy -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the Cisco Press Book - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Design-Troubleshooting-Consulting FCC License # PG-12-25133 Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Marlon's Fat Man Dance Club
Can you pick out the real Marlon in this group? http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-us&fg=rss&vid=5a9774b2-6d6b-47d4-ad23-c7234cfa8 4eb&from=im_m_35-49 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] outdoor CAT5
allrfcables.com (Shireen) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:48 PM Subject: [WISPA] outdoor CAT5 > Any good, affordable sources for outdoor CAT5? > > Travis > Microserv > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] outdoor CAT5
Someone on this list (I think) mentioned www.skywalker.com I can't vouch for the quality since I haven't ordered, but I think it was $75 / 1000' box. If I recall, a $500 order was shipped free, too. If you buy some, let us know how it compares. -John On February 26, at 1:48 PM February 26, Travis Johnson wrote: > Any good, affordable sources for outdoor CAT5? > > Travis > Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] outdoor CAT5
Travis Johnson wrote: > Any good, affordable sources for outdoor CAT5? > > Travis > Microserv > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ I get a lot of my cable from Platt Electric Supply. They are in Idaho too http://www.platt.com/Branches/state.aspx?state=ID The issue with buying from an electrical distributor is they have different pricing matrixes for diferent types of buyers. So two guys can get different pricing on same qty, same product. With that, I've bought aluminum shielded cat5 cable for my towers at like .25 +/- per foot. We're talking the aluminum sheath that is like a solid aluminum tube. They have the ability to give you fantastic pricing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] outdoor CAT5
We get ours from: http://shireeninc.com/ Very quick on shipping and have had great success with their Outdoor Cat5 and LMR equivalent products... -Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] outdoor CAT5 Any good, affordable sources for outdoor CAT5? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] outdoor CAT5
Any good, affordable sources for outdoor CAT5? Travis Microserv WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"
Ugg, sorry, meant to say, I'm not the network "admin" George Rogato wrote: > I'm not the network for my network. > I do know that what we do is to limit the number of connections. Mike > our admin has a script that runs, I'm assuming on a bsd box that > probably handles nat, that closes some of those connections when a limit > is reached. That is why on our network, if you have a public ip P2P > works great, and if you are assigned a private, it's slow. > > Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: >> The real problem is the number of connections. One client opening up >> 300-400 connections is going to cause all kinds of problems. Being >> able to limit connections is a pretty important item to be able to >> handle on a wireless network. >> >> Matt Larsen >> Vistabeam.com >> >> Mike Hammett wrote: >>> and I forgot to say what I was initially going to say... >>> >>> You may need better APs. I have 30+ customers on a single tower with more >>> than one client running P2P applications (including BitTorrent) and >>> everything works just fine. That said, my AP is a 4-radio 4-sector AP that >>> is a PC running Mikrotik. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "David E. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" >>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:12 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service >>> providers" >>> >>> >>> > I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with > the > bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry > applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. > I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! > Speak for yourself. (By the way, I am speaking for myself, not for my boss, my employer, WISPA itself for whom I do occasional work, or anyone else. This is always the case, but I feel especially compelled to mention it here.) The day a legislature or court orders me to stop shaping p2p traffic, I'll dust off my resume, because the network will melt shortly thereafter, beyond my ability to repair. The inexpensive last-mile gear many smaller wireless operators use don't respond well to p2p traffic. Towers with fifty customers can be brought to their knees by ONE customer with an encrypted BitTorrent client, or Limewire, or other p2p software. (Every time this subject comes up, there's a bunch of "just build out your network to handle the load du" punters. As that isn't always feasible, given the limitations of small company budgets and the technology available within said budgets, let's just assume I don't have millions of dollars handy to do so.) My sole concern is keeping my network running as well as possible, given the limits of the budget and technology at my disposal. I don't care what you're downloading, and if I had a choice I wouldn't care about how you're downloading it. I don't even care whether it's for "legal" use. (And let's not kid ourselves on that point.) Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, the folks making these edicts aren't making the distinction between social and technical reasons for traffic shaping. David Smith WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"
I'm not the network for my network. I do know that what we do is to limit the number of connections. Mike our admin has a script that runs, I'm assuming on a bsd box that probably handles nat, that closes some of those connections when a limit is reached. That is why on our network, if you have a public ip P2P works great, and if you are assigned a private, it's slow. Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: > The real problem is the number of connections. One client opening up > 300-400 connections is going to cause all kinds of problems. Being > able to limit connections is a pretty important item to be able to > handle on a wireless network. > > Matt Larsen > Vistabeam.com > > Mike Hammett wrote: >> and I forgot to say what I was initially going to say... >> >> You may need better APs. I have 30+ customers on a single tower with more >> than one client running P2P applications (including BitTorrent) and >> everything works just fine. That said, my AP is a 4-radio 4-sector AP that >> is a PC running Mikrotik. >> >> >> -- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "David E. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service >> providers" >> >> >> I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with >>> the >>> bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry >>> applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they >>> buy. >>> I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! >>> Speak for yourself. >>> >>> (By the way, I am speaking for myself, not for my boss, my employer, WISPA >>> itself for whom I do occasional work, or anyone else. This is always the >>> case, but I feel especially compelled to mention it here.) >>> >>> The day a legislature or court orders me to stop shaping p2p traffic, I'll >>> dust off my resume, because the network will melt shortly thereafter, >>> beyond my ability to repair. >>> >>> The inexpensive last-mile gear many smaller wireless operators use don't >>> respond well to p2p traffic. Towers with fifty customers can be brought to >>> their knees by ONE customer with an encrypted BitTorrent client, or >>> Limewire, or other p2p software. >>> >>> (Every time this subject comes up, there's a bunch of "just build out your >>> network to handle the load du" punters. As that isn't always feasible, >>> given the limitations of small company budgets and the technology >>> available within said budgets, let's just assume I don't have millions of >>> dollars handy to do so.) >>> >>> My sole concern is keeping my network running as well as possible, given >>> the limits of the budget and technology at my disposal. I don't care what >>> you're downloading, and if I had a choice I wouldn't care about how you're >>> downloading it. I don't even care whether it's for "legal" use. (And let's >>> not kid ourselves on that point.) >>> >>> Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, the folks making these edicts aren't >>> making the distinction between social and technical reasons for traffic >>> shaping. >>> >>> David Smith >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"
> The real problem is the number of connections. One client opening up > 300-400 connections is going to cause all kinds of problems. Being > able to limit connections is a pretty important item to be able to > handle on a wireless network. The other real problem is if these video on demand services have there way all your users upstream connections will be streaming out there content all day long. Unlike traditional servers that foot the bill for there own bandwidth. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"
The real problem is the number of connections. One client opening up 300-400 connections is going to cause all kinds of problems. Being able to limit connections is a pretty important item to be able to handle on a wireless network. Matt Larsen Vistabeam.com Mike Hammett wrote: > and I forgot to say what I was initially going to say... > > You may need better APs. I have 30+ customers on a single tower with more > than one client running P2P applications (including BitTorrent) and > everything works just fine. That said, my AP is a 4-radio 4-sector AP that > is a PC running Mikrotik. > > > -- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > - Original Message - > From: "David E. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:12 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service > providers" > > > >>> I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with >>> >> the >> >>> bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry >>> >> applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they >> buy. >> >>> I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! >>> >> Speak for yourself. >> >> (By the way, I am speaking for myself, not for my boss, my employer, WISPA >> itself for whom I do occasional work, or anyone else. This is always the >> case, but I feel especially compelled to mention it here.) >> >> The day a legislature or court orders me to stop shaping p2p traffic, I'll >> dust off my resume, because the network will melt shortly thereafter, >> beyond my ability to repair. >> >> The inexpensive last-mile gear many smaller wireless operators use don't >> respond well to p2p traffic. Towers with fifty customers can be brought to >> their knees by ONE customer with an encrypted BitTorrent client, or >> Limewire, or other p2p software. >> >> (Every time this subject comes up, there's a bunch of "just build out your >> network to handle the load du" punters. As that isn't always feasible, >> given the limitations of small company budgets and the technology >> available within said budgets, let's just assume I don't have millions of >> dollars handy to do so.) >> >> My sole concern is keeping my network running as well as possible, given >> the limits of the budget and technology at my disposal. I don't care what >> you're downloading, and if I had a choice I wouldn't care about how you're >> downloading it. I don't even care whether it's for "legal" use. (And let's >> not kid ourselves on that point.) >> >> Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, the folks making these edicts aren't >> making the distinction between social and technical reasons for traffic >> shaping. >> >> David Smith >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"
That won't work because some of the P2P programs only are identifiable when they log on and once they are running it would look like normal traffic. One program like this is Ares. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh," they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" Don't do that... create rule all-ptp = shape at 20kbps. That way they can't say it's being denied :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh," they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? Heres a solution "create rule all-p2p = DROP" Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: > I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the > bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry > applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. > I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! > > I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL > companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC > is proposing. > > If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating > the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin > to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing > for us. > > Best, > > > Brad > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of George Rogato > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service > providers" > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; _ylt > =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF > > Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet > service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like > Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wisp
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"
and I forgot to say what I was initially going to say... You may need better APs. I have 30+ customers on a single tower with more than one client running P2P applications (including BitTorrent) and everything works just fine. That said, my AP is a 4-radio 4-sector AP that is a PC running Mikrotik. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "David E. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" >> I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with > the >> bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry > applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they > buy. >> I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! > > Speak for yourself. > > (By the way, I am speaking for myself, not for my boss, my employer, WISPA > itself for whom I do occasional work, or anyone else. This is always the > case, but I feel especially compelled to mention it here.) > > The day a legislature or court orders me to stop shaping p2p traffic, I'll > dust off my resume, because the network will melt shortly thereafter, > beyond my ability to repair. > > The inexpensive last-mile gear many smaller wireless operators use don't > respond well to p2p traffic. Towers with fifty customers can be brought to > their knees by ONE customer with an encrypted BitTorrent client, or > Limewire, or other p2p software. > > (Every time this subject comes up, there's a bunch of "just build out your > network to handle the load du" punters. As that isn't always feasible, > given the limitations of small company budgets and the technology > available within said budgets, let's just assume I don't have millions of > dollars handy to do so.) > > My sole concern is keeping my network running as well as possible, given > the limits of the budget and technology at my disposal. I don't care what > you're downloading, and if I had a choice I wouldn't care about how you're > downloading it. I don't even care whether it's for "legal" use. (And let's > not kid ourselves on that point.) > > Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, the folks making these edicts aren't > making the distinction between social and technical reasons for traffic > shaping. > > David Smith > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"
I know it's been said already, but I didn't want to have a one-liner. They're not saying what you can and can't do, but to publicly say what you do as to not deceive your customers. It wasn't that Comcast shaped their traffic, but that they shaped and canceled account without saying what the parameters were. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "David E. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" >> I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with > the >> bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry > applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they > buy. >> I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! > > Speak for yourself. > > (By the way, I am speaking for myself, not for my boss, my employer, WISPA > itself for whom I do occasional work, or anyone else. This is always the > case, but I feel especially compelled to mention it here.) > > The day a legislature or court orders me to stop shaping p2p traffic, I'll > dust off my resume, because the network will melt shortly thereafter, > beyond my ability to repair. > > The inexpensive last-mile gear many smaller wireless operators use don't > respond well to p2p traffic. Towers with fifty customers can be brought to > their knees by ONE customer with an encrypted BitTorrent client, or > Limewire, or other p2p software. > > (Every time this subject comes up, there's a bunch of "just build out your > network to handle the load du" punters. As that isn't always feasible, > given the limitations of small company budgets and the technology > available within said budgets, let's just assume I don't have millions of > dollars handy to do so.) > > My sole concern is keeping my network running as well as possible, given > the limits of the budget and technology at my disposal. I don't care what > you're downloading, and if I had a choice I wouldn't care about how you're > downloading it. I don't even care whether it's for "legal" use. (And let's > not kid ourselves on that point.) > > Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, the folks making these edicts aren't > making the distinction between social and technical reasons for traffic > shaping. > > David Smith > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Equipment for sale
We've got the following that we just removed from service replaced with higher bandwidth equipment: Four (4) pairs of Tsunami 45m full duplex radios (301-27710-1a1/301-27710-1a2) One (1) pair Tsunami 100m full duplex radio Two (2) pairs Alvarion LB; one pair 36m, one pair 72m No antennas included. Please contact me off list for further information. Thanks, Leon begin:vcard fn:Leon Zetekoff n:Zetekoff;Leon org:BackWoods Wireless adr;dom:;;505 B Main Street;Blandon;PA;19510 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Owner tel;home:610-916-0230 tel;cell:610-223-8642 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://www.backwoodswireless.net version:2.1 end:vcard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"
Couldn't agree more...and who better to up sell such customers to the product they really need than their provider. This equals more $$$. I don't see this as a bad thing... Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Wolfe Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" Kurt, You can always do what we have since 2003, BAN all P2P traffic on the network. It is listed right in the first paragraph in our TOS and each customer is told upfront about it. I have turned off radios and I have even pulled radios because of it. I guess the most important issue is telling them up front BEFORE they sign up. P2P is the worst application that can be run on a network of half-duplex radios. I do have a few customers that use it for work related functions (Linux distro's etc.) that I allow to run. One of the main things that really PO's me is that some gaming CO's use P2P to distribute their patches and stuff. IMHO, the cheap [EMAIL PROTECTED] should buy a server and purchase some bandwidth instead of free loading on our networks. >:o Kurt Fankhauser wrote: > Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go > find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine > restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that > we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? > > Heres a solution "create rule all-p2p = DROP" > > Kurt Fankhauser > WAVELINC > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > 419-562-6405 > www.wavelinc.com > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Travis Johnson > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet > service providers" > > Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be > telling me what I can and can't do. > > I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't > think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. > > Travis > Microserv > > Brad Belton wrote: > >> I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do >> > with the > >> bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry >> applications are good for our model as the more they need the more >> > they buy. > >> I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! >> >> I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable >> > and DSL > >> companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what >> > the FCC > >> is proposing. >> >> If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for >> > manipulating > >> the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably >> > begin > >> to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad >> > thing > >> for us. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Brad >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > On > >> Behalf Of George Rogato >> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet >> > service > >> providers" >> >> >> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; > _ylt > >> =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF >> >> Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline >> > Internet > >> service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, >> > like > >> Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> > > > >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> > > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> > > > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"
Again, as I understand it I don't see this as any different than selling/offering one product, but delivering another. That is unethical and should be addressed. If you want to limit p2p traffic then fine, but it has to be disclosed as George has described earlier in this thread. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:15 AM To: WISPA General Liste Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" Don't do that... create rule all-ptp = shape at 20kbps. That way they can't say it's being denied :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh," they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? Heres a solution "create rule all-p2p = DROP" Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: > I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the > bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry > applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. > I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! > > I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL > companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC > is proposing. > > If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating > the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin > to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing > for us. > > Best, > > > Brad > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of George Rogato > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service > providers" > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; _ylt > =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF > > Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet > service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like > Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ W
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"
Kurt, You can always do what we have since 2003, BAN all P2P traffic on the network. It is listed right in the first paragraph in our TOS and each customer is told upfront about it. I have turned off radios and I have even pulled radios because of it. I guess the most important issue is telling them up front BEFORE they sign up. P2P is the worst application that can be run on a network of half-duplex radios. I do have a few customers that use it for work related functions (Linux distro's etc.) that I allow to run. One of the main things that really PO's me is that some gaming CO's use P2P to distribute their patches and stuff. IMHO, the cheap [EMAIL PROTECTED] should buy a server and purchase some bandwidth instead of free loading on our networks. >:o Kurt Fankhauser wrote: > Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go > find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine > restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that > we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? > > Heres a solution "create rule all-p2p = DROP" > > Kurt Fankhauser > WAVELINC > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > 419-562-6405 > www.wavelinc.com > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Travis Johnson > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet > service providers" > > Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be > telling me what I can and can't do. > > I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't > think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. > > Travis > Microserv > > Brad Belton wrote: > >> I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do >> > with the > >> bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry >> applications are good for our model as the more they need the more >> > they buy. > >> I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! >> >> I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable >> > and DSL > >> companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what >> > the FCC > >> is proposing. >> >> If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for >> > manipulating > >> the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably >> > begin > >> to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad >> > thing > >> for us. >> >> Best, >> >> >> Brad >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > On > >> Behalf Of George Rogato >> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet >> > service > >> providers" >> >> >> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; > _ylt > >> =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF >> >> Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline >> > Internet > >> service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, >> > like > >> Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. >> >> >> >> > > > >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> > > > >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> > > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> > > > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wisp
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"
With the encrypted stuff, that's really hard to do...even if it were a good idea. Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh," they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? Heres a solution "create rule all-p2p = DROP" Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: > I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the > bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry > applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. > I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! > > I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL > companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC > is proposing. > > If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating > the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin > to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing > for us. > > Best, > > > Brad > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of George Rogato > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service > providers" > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; _ylt > =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF > > Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet > service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like > Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers"
Don't do that... create rule all-ptp = shape at 20kbps. That way they can't say it's being denied :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh," they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? Heres a solution "create rule all-p2p = DROP" Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service providers" Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: > I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the > bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry > applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. > I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! > > I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL > companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC > is proposing. > > If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating > the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin > to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing > for us. > > Best, > > > Brad > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of George Rogato > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, " they are ready to discipline Internet service > providers" > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; _ylt > =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF > > Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet > service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like > Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
