Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

One more thing I forgot, if you want to use something that is more  
experimental, more do-it-yourself and which supports a greater variety  
of hardware there is OpenWRT's firmware with mesh and also 
http://nightwing.lugro-mesh.org.ar/en/ 
. These are options using routing options such as BATMAN/Robin, OLSRd  
and such. As I understand it in true mesh the boxes run in the ad hoc  
mode instead of wds which reduces redundant retransmission resulting  
in better throughput.

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just  
> for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my  
> feet wet and have some fun.
>
> I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked  
> good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is  
> was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask  
> for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will  
> mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be  
> cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on  
> those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.
>
> `S
>
> PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how  
> it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which ! 
> = MT.  (:
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

I haven't used this stuff but I've been researching it and have  
contacted the companies. One is some ready-made two radio (2.4ghz for  
clients, 5ghz for backhaul) mesh hardware from Wiligear 
http://www.wiligear.com/?q=products/mesh/wbd-212 
  which still requires to you package it up (enclosure, antennas, poe)  
and another possibility in the future is a single radio option 
http://open-mesh.com/ 
. Their web site only shows low end consumer hardware but they are  
working on a firmware for the Picostation2 HP to be available "soon"  
so this one isn't available just yet. They don't foresee support for  
the NS2 because it doesn't have enough memory. One more option which  
is the most plug and play of the alternatives I know of is 
http://www.kalpeshwireless.com/ 
. You can buy the NS2s from them with their firmware preloaded or load  
it yourself if you already have the hardware. You can manage the whole  
network through the web (their servers). This is available  
immediately. I will be trying this last option myself in the near  
future.

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just  
> for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my  
> feet wet and have some fun.
>
> I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked  
> good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is  
> was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask  
> for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will  
> mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be  
> cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on  
> those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.
>
> `S
>
> PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how  
> it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which ! 
> = MT.  (:
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[eje]

MT and a consultant ;)

/me laughing while running for cover
 
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: Scott Vander Dussen 

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. 
 Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some 
fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good 
enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was a turn-key 
solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on 
how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like 
Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware 
that works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can 
save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.  (:



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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[3-dB Networks]

Ruckus now has a full outdoor radio that would work great for this... easy
to manage and setup.  But the cost will probably kill your budget (I think
the full outdoor units cost around $1k or so... haven't seen the price on
them yet).  The controller would add some cost too.  But it would be a high
quality system.

You could probably also pick up some Tropos boxes relatively cheap.
Managing/setting up the system might be more effort than you want to give
it.

Just remember... you don't want to mesh more than three nodes :-)

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen
>Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:13 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for
>kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet
>and have some fun.
>
>I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked
>good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was
>a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a
>recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).
>Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the
>Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh?  Very
>new to mesh - thanks in advance.
>
>`S
>
>PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it
>can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.
>(:
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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[WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. 
 Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some 
fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good 
enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was a turn-key 
solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on 
how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like 
Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware 
that works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can 
save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.  (:



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Re: [WISPA] Berber carpet

[John Scrivner]

Carpet has a grain. You cut a slit a few inches long along the grain. You
can pull the carpet up over the bit, run the bit slowly and prevent creating
runs in the carpet.
Scriv


On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 8:26 PM, John J. Thomas  wrote:

> Is there any reason you don't just cut an X in the carpter and then trim
> it?
>
> John
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: John Scrivner [mailto:j...@scrivner.com]
> >Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 08:18 AM
> >To: 'WISPA General List'
> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Berber carpet
> >
> >You need to use a sharp razor knife to cut a slit about 3 inches long
> along
> >the grain of the carpet. Then hold the carpet to the side as you drill.
> >Scriv
> >
> >
> >On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 10:09 AM, RickG  wrote:
> >
> >> How do you guys drill holes through berber carpet withour pulling the
> >> threads?
> >> I have the "cutting tool" but thread still grab onto the drill bit.
> >> I've thought about finding a metal tube to put the drill into so it
> >> doesnt catch the carpet.
> >> Thoughts?
> >> -RickG
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
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> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
>
> >
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> >
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Mike Hammett]

I'm not sure Travis will buy your mountain excuse.

I've heard on various lists before of WISPs working with the government to 
build towers in federal parks, etc.

You'll have to think outside of the box on this.  Can't just order a T1 from 
the telco.  You'll have to build your own network out to a POP somewhere, 
whether it be wireless or fiber.  Actually, since so many WISPs are doing it 
these days, I'm not really sure it's about of the box anymore.

https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four22


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:00 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
>
>> There's always, always another option.  The affordability or practicality
>> of
>> those options vary.
>>
>> Education and knowledge of the world at large is certainly cheaper than
>> burying 200 miles of fiber.  Not having an easy upstream choice isn't an
>> excuse for not knowing what networks are around you, keeping in contact
>> with
>> them, knowing how the Internet at large works.
>>
>> I'm not sure how current your coverage map is, but Electric Lightwave has
>> a
>> POP in Grand Coulee, which is 20 miles from Wilbur.
>
> It's more than 20 miles in reality.  There is also a bit of a mountain in
> the way.  And much of the land out there is government and mostly
> unavailable for use.
>
>>  They  may have closer,
>> but their POP names don't necessarily match up with town names.
>
> Yeah, and NoaNET has a drop near Creston Wa.  But we're based in Odessa, 
> not
> Creston, Wilbur or Coulee Dam.
>
>>  Vision
>> networks in Montana may be of use, but I don't know.  they indicate a 
>> line
>> going near you, but no POPs specified.  Being right near I-90, there has
>> to
>> be a chunk of fiber next to it, just have to do some research to find out
>> whom.  ;-)
>
> There is fiber IN town.  But there's only 1.  And it's Century Tel.
>
> There is a lot of fiber south of us (some closer to us than to I-90 
> even!).
> But so far I've not found a way to get into it.  For some reason AT&T (or
> whoever owns it now) doesn't like to break into their runs mid span.
>
> The upshot of things is that I'm only 9 miles from being able to tie my
> Grant and Lincoln county networks together.  Anyone know how small of a
> block of IP addys we can get?  How do we get them and what is the cost?
>
> When I can get them tied together I'll likely run bgp and get my own ip
> space.  That'll help with upstream choices anyway.  Renumbering hundreds 
> of
> customers would suck!
>
> laters,
> marlon
>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:05 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>>
>>> roflol
>>>
>>> Oh the arrogance of the well connected!  grin
>>>
>>> I'm just twisting your tail Mike.
>>>
>>> But understand something about the reality of things out here.  There 
>>> are
>>> NO
>>> other choices for upstream connectivity.  I have ONE provider at three 
>>> of
>>> my
>>> main sites.  Not because I don't want a back up, but because there IS no
>>> other choice.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:22 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>>>
>>>
 I'm not saying anything about you personally, John.

 However, situations like this are why a lot of people don't take WISPs
 seriously.  Everybody here should be doing BGP, or at the very least
 know
 what it is, how it works, and how large of an impact it has on the 
 whole
 Internet.  There were a few responses to this statement indicating that
 people don't know how this system works or how to get current
 information
 on
 the issue (NANOG, etc.).

 There were only a few responses, but I bet you there are dozens or
 hundreds
 of lurkers that don't know either.

 You can't run your operation effectively if you don't (or have people
 to)
 know everything from RF propagation, local demographics, routing,
 government
 policy, etc.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: "John McDowell" 
 Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:18 AM
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure yo

Re: [WISPA] Berber carpet

[John J. Thomas]

Is there any reason you don't just cut an X in the carpter and then trim it?

John

>-Original Message-
>From: John Scrivner [mailto:j...@scrivner.com]
>Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 08:18 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Berber carpet
>
>You need to use a sharp razor knife to cut a slit about 3 inches long along
>the grain of the carpet. Then hold the carpet to the side as you drill.
>Scriv
>
>
>On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 10:09 AM, RickG  wrote:
>
>> How do you guys drill holes through berber carpet withour pulling the
>> threads?
>> I have the "cutting tool" but thread still grab onto the drill bit.
>> I've thought about finding a metal tube to put the drill into so it
>> doesnt catch the carpet.
>> Thoughts?
>> -RickG
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>
> 
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>
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>
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>





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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Marlon K. Schafer]

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now


> There's always, always another option.  The affordability or practicality 
> of
> those options vary.
>
> Education and knowledge of the world at large is certainly cheaper than
> burying 200 miles of fiber.  Not having an easy upstream choice isn't an
> excuse for not knowing what networks are around you, keeping in contact 
> with
> them, knowing how the Internet at large works.
>
> I'm not sure how current your coverage map is, but Electric Lightwave has 
> a
> POP in Grand Coulee, which is 20 miles from Wilbur.

It's more than 20 miles in reality.  There is also a bit of a mountain in 
the way.  And much of the land out there is government and mostly 
unavailable for use.

>  They  may have closer,
> but their POP names don't necessarily match up with town names.

Yeah, and NoaNET has a drop near Creston Wa.  But we're based in Odessa, not 
Creston, Wilbur or Coulee Dam.

>  Vision
> networks in Montana may be of use, but I don't know.  they indicate a line
> going near you, but no POPs specified.  Being right near I-90, there has 
> to
> be a chunk of fiber next to it, just have to do some research to find out
> whom.  ;-)

There is fiber IN town.  But there's only 1.  And it's Century Tel.

There is a lot of fiber south of us (some closer to us than to I-90 even!). 
But so far I've not found a way to get into it.  For some reason AT&T (or 
whoever owns it now) doesn't like to break into their runs mid span.

The upshot of things is that I'm only 9 miles from being able to tie my 
Grant and Lincoln county networks together.  Anyone know how small of a 
block of IP addys we can get?  How do we get them and what is the cost?

When I can get them tied together I'll likely run bgp and get my own ip 
space.  That'll help with upstream choices anyway.  Renumbering hundreds of 
customers would suck!

laters,
marlon

>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:05 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
>> roflol
>>
>> Oh the arrogance of the well connected!  grin
>>
>> I'm just twisting your tail Mike.
>>
>> But understand something about the reality of things out here.  There are
>> NO
>> other choices for upstream connectivity.  I have ONE provider at three of
>> my
>> main sites.  Not because I don't want a back up, but because there IS no
>> other choice.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Mike Hammett" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>>
>>
>>> I'm not saying anything about you personally, John.
>>>
>>> However, situations like this are why a lot of people don't take WISPs
>>> seriously.  Everybody here should be doing BGP, or at the very least 
>>> know
>>> what it is, how it works, and how large of an impact it has on the whole
>>> Internet.  There were a few responses to this statement indicating that
>>> people don't know how this system works or how to get current 
>>> information
>>> on
>>> the issue (NANOG, etc.).
>>>
>>> There were only a few responses, but I bet you there are dozens or
>>> hundreds
>>> of lurkers that don't know either.
>>>
>>> You can't run your operation effectively if you don't (or have people 
>>> to)
>>> know everything from RF propagation, local demographics, routing,
>>> government
>>> policy, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "John McDowell" 
>>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:18 AM
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>>>
 what is that?

 On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Matt Liotta  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
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>



 -- 
 John M. McDowell
 Boonlink Communications
 307 Grand Ave NW
 Fort Payne, AL 35967
 256.844.9932
 j...@boonlink.com
 www.boonlink.com






 This message contains information which may be confidential and
 privileged.
 Unless you are the addressee (or authoriz

Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Marlon K. Schafer]

LOL

There is ONE fiber link into town.  That's it.  EVERYTHING runs on it.  The 
ONLY choice is Century Tel.

As for the OC3, I wonder if we could help with that?  We can get a 100 meg 
fiber link from Seattle to Ephrata for about $3k.  Not sure on the price for a 
gigE link.

It would have to save you some mileage if we could just start the link from 
here...

marlon
  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 2:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now


  There is ALWAYS another choice _affordable_ choice is another question. :)

  We are backhauling an OC3 from Idaho Falls, Idaho to Seattle, WA right now... 
I'm sure that's farther than you are from Seattle... ;)

  Travis
  Microserv

  Marlon K. Schafer wrote: 
roflol

Oh the arrogance of the well connected!  grin

I'm just twisting your tail Mike.

But understand something about the reality of things out here.  There are NO 
other choices for upstream connectivity.  I have ONE provider at three of my 
main sites.  Not because I don't want a back up, but because there IS no 
other choice.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now


  I'm not saying anything about you personally, John.

However, situations like this are why a lot of people don't take WISPs
seriously.  Everybody here should be doing BGP, or at the very least know
what it is, how it works, and how large of an impact it has on the whole
Internet.  There were a few responses to this statement indicating that
people don't know how this system works or how to get current information 
on
the issue (NANOG, etc.).

There were only a few responses, but I bet you there are dozens or 
hundreds
of lurkers that don't know either.

You can't run your operation effectively if you don't (or have people to)
know everything from RF propagation, local demographics, routing, 
government
policy, etc.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "John McDowell" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:18 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

what is that?

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Matt Liotta  wrote:

  


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-- 
John M. McDowell
Boonlink Communications
307 Grand Ave NW
Fort Payne, AL 35967
256.844.9932
j...@boonlink.com
www.boonlink.com






This message contains information which may be confidential and
privileged.
Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the 
addressee),
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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Mike Hammett]

There's always, always another option.  The affordability or practicality of 
those options vary.

Education and knowledge of the world at large is certainly cheaper than 
burying 200 miles of fiber.  Not having an easy upstream choice isn't an 
excuse for not knowing what networks are around you, keeping in contact with 
them, knowing how the Internet at large works.

I'm not sure how current your coverage map is, but Electric Lightwave has a 
POP in Grand Coulee, which is 20 miles from Wilbur.  They  may have closer, 
but their POP names don't necessarily match up with town names.  Vision 
networks in Montana may be of use, but I don't know.  they indicate a line 
going near you, but no POPs specified.  Being right near I-90, there has to 
be a chunk of fiber next to it, just have to do some research to find out 
whom.  ;-)


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:05 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

> roflol
>
> Oh the arrogance of the well connected!  grin
>
> I'm just twisting your tail Mike.
>
> But understand something about the reality of things out here.  There are 
> NO
> other choices for upstream connectivity.  I have ONE provider at three of 
> my
> main sites.  Not because I don't want a back up, but because there IS no
> other choice.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
>
>> I'm not saying anything about you personally, John.
>>
>> However, situations like this are why a lot of people don't take WISPs
>> seriously.  Everybody here should be doing BGP, or at the very least know
>> what it is, how it works, and how large of an impact it has on the whole
>> Internet.  There were a few responses to this statement indicating that
>> people don't know how this system works or how to get current information
>> on
>> the issue (NANOG, etc.).
>>
>> There were only a few responses, but I bet you there are dozens or
>> hundreds
>> of lurkers that don't know either.
>>
>> You can't run your operation effectively if you don't (or have people to)
>> know everything from RF propagation, local demographics, routing,
>> government
>> policy, etc.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "John McDowell" 
>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:18 AM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>>
>>> what is that?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Matt Liotta  wrote:
>>>




 
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> John M. McDowell
>>> Boonlink Communications
>>> 307 Grand Ave NW
>>> Fort Payne, AL 35967
>>> 256.844.9932
>>> j...@boonlink.com
>>> www.boonlink.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This message contains information which may be confidential and
>>> privileged.
>>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the
>>> addressee),
>>> you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or
>>> any
>>> information contained in the message. If you have received the message 
>>> in
>>> error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail j...@boonlink.com, and
>>> delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to
>>> spoofing,
>>> spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your
>>> computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or
>>> the
>>> source, please contact the sender directly.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>>>
>>
>>
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] It can mean everything

[St. Louis Broadband]

In my younger years, I use to write grants for a non-profit.  It is not
difficult, you just need know the guidelines and have a good business plan,
as well as some common sense.

As Scriv mentioned, it is important now that you work with your attorney and
accountant and get things in order.
It is also important to get your business certified for any type of extra
help that you qualify for.
For example, we are certified as a WOSB, Woman Owned Small Business, as well
as Viet Nam Veteran.
There are certifications also for minority owned, veteran owned and disable
veteran owned.

I think because of this "clause" in the stimulus bill that, hopefully, this
will keep big business from grabbing up all the monies.

Certifications are made when you apply to the Certified Contractors
Registry.

Another thing that I noted when reading the American Recovery and
Reinvestment Act of 2009.  Other than providing wireless service, one has to
offer community projects, such as, community centers, public safety, jobs
for local citizens, etc.

In my opinion, if these monies are distributed in the spirit the act was
written in, this could be the biggest boon, ever, to the WISP community.

Victoria Proffer
CEO
St. Louis Broadband
www.stlbroadband.com

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 3:02 PM, John Scrivner  wrote:

> We were never told we had to use anything from any approved list of
> vendors.
> I do know that Waverider did become a "USDA Approved Vendor" after we had
> our grant but we were not told we could not use them. We did help get
> Waverider listed as an approved Vendor at that time after the fact. I think
> it is simply having the vendor provide some general information about
> making
> sure they are an Equal Opportunity Employer, they don't cause environmental
> destruction, they don't support terrorism, yadda yadda... We had to do the
> same thing to become USDA approved to receive the funds. There are some
> hurdles to being qualified for receiving federal funds but most of it was
> stuff we needed to do anyway like making sure all of our accounting was in
> proper order. What I foiund was that many of the things that make your
> company qualified to receive federal funds can be easily accomplished with
> some time with your attorney and accountant. It was well worth the effort
> in
> our case.
> Scriv
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
>
> > In regards to the USDA grants, doesn't the choosen equipment have to be
> > "certified" for use with USDA funds? So you could deploy
> > Alvarion/Trango/Canopy but you can't use something like
> > Staros/Mikrotik/Tranzeo???
> >
> > Kurt Fankhauser
> > WAVELINC
> > P.O. Box 126
> > Bucyrus, OH 44820
> > 419-562-6405
> > www.wavelinc.com
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:52 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] It can mean everything
> >
> > well
> >
> > John's is a wonderful story.
> > With $8billion, I see no reason why as an industry we can't replicate
> > John's
> > story 26,000 times.
> >
> > There are obstacles and risks in everything in life. But battles can be
> > won.
> > We already wons several battles on the terms of the new stimulus bill.
> > I see no reason why we can't win more battles shaping the bill.
> >
> > The biggest advantage a WISP has is they have a pre-existing self
> > sustaining
> > business already, to build upon.
> > That should increase the chances that an existing WISPs will win grants.
> >
> > It also means we have to ask for the money, because if we don't, someone
> > else will.
> >
> > Tom DeReggi
> > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> >
> >
> >  - Original Message -
> >  From: Travis Johnson
> >  To: WISPA General List
> >  Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:47 AM
> >  Subject: Re: [WISPA] It can mean everything
> >
> >
> >  John,
> >
> >  What you did for the community and the individuals in that area is very
> > cool. Something you should be proud of for the rest of your life.
> >
> >  However, let's play the other side of this Broadband Stimulus package.
> > What if, because of all this "free" money, two new competitors come to
> this
> > area? And what if they all deploy 900mhz? They really have nothing to
> lose
> > because they don't have any customers right now anyway. And it's not
> their
> > money that is having to pay for all the equipment, etc. so even if it
> > doesn't work, they don't care.
> >
> >  So, what if this new money brings all these "government leaches" out,
> > right into the wireless broadband market? What if you wake up tomorrow
> and
> > have 2 or 3 new competitors in your area? What about if they start using
> > 3.65 along with all your deployments? Again, they have nothing to lose
> > because it wasn't their money and they don't care if they cause problems
> > for
> > anyone else, because the

[WISPA] Rootennas

[lakeland]

I have 9 grey 5210012 shallow pocket, two white 5210012,  three grey 5210012 
deep pocket and one R24-14 grey deep pocket. They are all 5ghz ezcept the last 
one. I also have 6 pieces of a 21dbi grids 5.1-5.3 GHz. And last but not least 
I have two 2.4 GHZ 24dBi grids and six 15dbi grids.

Make me an offer.  These need to go fast. 

They are all brand new unused

Bob 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Brian Rohrbacher]

inline

Mike Hammett wrote:

  I'm not saying anything about you personally, John.

However, situations like this are why a lot of people don't take WISPs 
seriously.  Everybody here should be doing BGP, or at the very least know 
what it is, how it works, and how large of an impact it has on the whole 
Internet.  There were a few responses to this statement indicating that 
people don't know how this system works or how to get current information on 
the issue (NANOG, etc.).

There were only a few responses, but I bet you there are dozens or hundreds 
of lurkers that don't know either.

You can't run your operation effectively if you don't (or have people to) 
know everything from RF propagation, local demographics, routing, government 
policy, etc.
  

While I'm in a better position now, I started with 1 credit card and
one idea.  I knew nothing but wore all the hats.  
It's just not possible to do everything.  Not the way many wisps were
started. 

Do I miss the days of choosing between buying groceries and paying for
my bandwidth?  
No.  But I run an effective operation and don't know everything.

Brian

  
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "John McDowell" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:18 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

  
  
what is that?

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Matt Liotta  wrote:



  



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-- 
John M. McDowell
Boonlink Communications
307 Grand Ave NW
Fort Payne, AL 35967
256.844.9932
j...@boonlink.com
www.boonlink.com






This message contains information which may be confidential and 
privileged.
Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee),
you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or 
any
information contained in the message. If you have received the message in
error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail j...@boonlink.com, and
delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to 
spoofing,
spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your
computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or 
the
source, please contact the sender directly.



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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Travis Johnson]

There is ALWAYS another choice _affordable_ choice is another
question. :)

We are backhauling an OC3 from Idaho Falls, Idaho to Seattle, WA right
now... I'm sure that's farther than you are from Seattle... ;)

Travis
Microserv

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

  roflol

Oh the arrogance of the well connected!  grin

I'm just twisting your tail Mike.

But understand something about the reality of things out here.  There are NO 
other choices for upstream connectivity.  I have ONE provider at three of my 
main sites.  Not because I don't want a back up, but because there IS no 
other choice.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now


  
  
I'm not saying anything about you personally, John.

However, situations like this are why a lot of people don't take WISPs
seriously.  Everybody here should be doing BGP, or at the very least know
what it is, how it works, and how large of an impact it has on the whole
Internet.  There were a few responses to this statement indicating that
people don't know how this system works or how to get current information 
on
the issue (NANOG, etc.).

There were only a few responses, but I bet you there are dozens or 
hundreds
of lurkers that don't know either.

You can't run your operation effectively if you don't (or have people to)
know everything from RF propagation, local demographics, routing, 
government
policy, etc.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "John McDowell" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:18 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now



  what is that?

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Matt Liotta  wrote:

  
  




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-- 
John M. McDowell
Boonlink Communications
307 Grand Ave NW
Fort Payne, AL 35967
256.844.9932
j...@boonlink.com
www.boonlink.com






This message contains information which may be confidential and
privileged.
Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the 
addressee),
you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or
any
information contained in the message. If you have received the message in
error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail j...@boonlink.com, and
delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to
spoofing,
spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your
computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or
the
source, please contact the sender directly.



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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Marlon K. Schafer]

roflol

Oh the arrogance of the well connected!  grin

I'm just twisting your tail Mike.

But understand something about the reality of things out here.  There are NO 
other choices for upstream connectivity.  I have ONE provider at three of my 
main sites.  Not because I don't want a back up, but because there IS no 
other choice.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now


> I'm not saying anything about you personally, John.
>
> However, situations like this are why a lot of people don't take WISPs
> seriously.  Everybody here should be doing BGP, or at the very least know
> what it is, how it works, and how large of an impact it has on the whole
> Internet.  There were a few responses to this statement indicating that
> people don't know how this system works or how to get current information 
> on
> the issue (NANOG, etc.).
>
> There were only a few responses, but I bet you there are dozens or 
> hundreds
> of lurkers that don't know either.
>
> You can't run your operation effectively if you don't (or have people to)
> know everything from RF propagation, local demographics, routing, 
> government
> policy, etc.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "John McDowell" 
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:18 AM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
>> what is that?
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Matt Liotta  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
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>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> John M. McDowell
>> Boonlink Communications
>> 307 Grand Ave NW
>> Fort Payne, AL 35967
>> 256.844.9932
>> j...@boonlink.com
>> www.boonlink.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This message contains information which may be confidential and
>> privileged.
>> Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the 
>> addressee),
>> you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or
>> any
>> information contained in the message. If you have received the message in
>> error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail j...@boonlink.com, and
>> delete the message. E-mail communication is highly susceptible to
>> spoofing,
>> spamming, and other tampering, some of which may be harmful to your
>> computer. If you are concerned about the authenticity of the message or
>> the
>> source, please contact the sender directly.
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> 
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[David E. Smith]

Mike Hammett wrote:

> However, situations like this are why a lot of people don't take WISPs 
> seriously.

I figured the original question:

 >> what is that?

was a means of saying "what is this ASN and why should we be filtering 
it." The original post in this thread was a BLANK email. It just said 
"you should probably filter this ASN," but didn't say WHY.

By the way, that ASN stopped spewing out nonsense a few hours ago and if 
you did blindly filter that ASN you can safely remove those filters.

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Mike Hammett]

I'm not saying anything about you personally, John.

However, situations like this are why a lot of people don't take WISPs 
seriously.  Everybody here should be doing BGP, or at the very least know 
what it is, how it works, and how large of an impact it has on the whole 
Internet.  There were a few responses to this statement indicating that 
people don't know how this system works or how to get current information on 
the issue (NANOG, etc.).

There were only a few responses, but I bet you there are dozens or hundreds 
of lurkers that don't know either.

You can't run your operation effectively if you don't (or have people to) 
know everything from RF propagation, local demographics, routing, government 
policy, etc.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "John McDowell" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:18 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

> what is that?
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Matt Liotta  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
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Re: [WISPA] It can mean everything

[John Scrivner]

We were never told we had to use anything from any approved list of vendors.
I do know that Waverider did become a "USDA Approved Vendor" after we had
our grant but we were not told we could not use them. We did help get
Waverider listed as an approved Vendor at that time after the fact. I think
it is simply having the vendor provide some general information about making
sure they are an Equal Opportunity Employer, they don't cause environmental
destruction, they don't support terrorism, yadda yadda... We had to do the
same thing to become USDA approved to receive the funds. There are some
hurdles to being qualified for receiving federal funds but most of it was
stuff we needed to do anyway like making sure all of our accounting was in
proper order. What I foiund was that many of the things that make your
company qualified to receive federal funds can be easily accomplished with
some time with your attorney and accountant. It was well worth the effort in
our case.
Scriv


On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

> In regards to the USDA grants, doesn't the choosen equipment have to be
> "certified" for use with USDA funds? So you could deploy
> Alvarion/Trango/Canopy but you can't use something like
> Staros/Mikrotik/Tranzeo???
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:52 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] It can mean everything
>
> well
>
> John's is a wonderful story.
> With $8billion, I see no reason why as an industry we can't replicate
> John's
> story 26,000 times.
>
> There are obstacles and risks in everything in life. But battles can be
> won.
> We already wons several battles on the terms of the new stimulus bill.
> I see no reason why we can't win more battles shaping the bill.
>
> The biggest advantage a WISP has is they have a pre-existing self
> sustaining
> business already, to build upon.
> That should increase the chances that an existing WISPs will win grants.
>
> It also means we have to ask for the money, because if we don't, someone
> else will.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>  - Original Message -
>  From: Travis Johnson
>  To: WISPA General List
>  Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:47 AM
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] It can mean everything
>
>
>  John,
>
>  What you did for the community and the individuals in that area is very
> cool. Something you should be proud of for the rest of your life.
>
>  However, let's play the other side of this Broadband Stimulus package.
> What if, because of all this "free" money, two new competitors come to this
> area? And what if they all deploy 900mhz? They really have nothing to lose
> because they don't have any customers right now anyway. And it's not their
> money that is having to pay for all the equipment, etc. so even if it
> doesn't work, they don't care.
>
>  So, what if this new money brings all these "government leaches" out,
> right into the wireless broadband market? What if you wake up tomorrow and
> have 2 or 3 new competitors in your area? What about if they start using
> 3.65 along with all your deployments? Again, they have nothing to lose
> because it wasn't their money and they don't care if they cause problems
> for
> anyone else, because they are collecting $250k per year salaries and they
> will ride it until it dries up.
>
>  This whole "package" could be a HUGE mess for our entire industry. :(
>
>  Travis
>  Microserv
>
>  John Scrivner wrote:
> I used to say our government had no place in broadband. One thing happened
> that changed my thinking to some degree. A small rural town called Bluford,
> Illinois used to have no broadband until a few years ago. At that time I
> never used 900 MHz gear because it was out of my budget. Bluford was full
> of
> trees. It is a very poor community which led me to believe they could not
> afford the high price of 900 MHz CPEs. Basically Bluford defined the
> "Digital Divide". My attitude toward USDA grants was "They should stay out
> of this but if someone will get the money it might as well be me". I shot
> for the moon. I budgeted for Waverider 900 MHz (The only 900 MHz gear
> available at that time) and a new tower. I asked for free installs for all
> residents. I ran surveys of every person in town. In short I did everything
> the USDA required of the grant and then some. I even went to broadband
> conventions and told others how to apply for grants.
>
> Then a miracle happened.
>
> My grant was funded. I received $310K to build service into Bluford. It was
> the nicest setup I had ever done. The people of Bluford were ecstatic. Over
> 60% of all residents bought service. We built a free community technology
> center at the local grade school. We gave free broadband t

Re: [WISPA] It can mean everything

[Kurt Fankhauser]

In regards to the USDA grants, doesn't the choosen equipment have to be
"certified" for use with USDA funds? So you could deploy
Alvarion/Trango/Canopy but you can't use something like
Staros/Mikrotik/Tranzeo???

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:52 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It can mean everything

well

John's is a wonderful story. 
With $8billion, I see no reason why as an industry we can't replicate John's
story 26,000 times.

There are obstacles and risks in everything in life. But battles can be won.
We already wons several battles on the terms of the new stimulus bill.
I see no reason why we can't win more battles shaping the bill.

The biggest advantage a WISP has is they have a pre-existing self sustaining
business already, to build upon.
That should increase the chances that an existing WISPs will win grants.

It also means we have to ask for the money, because if we don't, someone
else will.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 1:47 AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] It can mean everything


  John,

  What you did for the community and the individuals in that area is very
cool. Something you should be proud of for the rest of your life.

  However, let's play the other side of this Broadband Stimulus package.
What if, because of all this "free" money, two new competitors come to this
area? And what if they all deploy 900mhz? They really have nothing to lose
because they don't have any customers right now anyway. And it's not their
money that is having to pay for all the equipment, etc. so even if it
doesn't work, they don't care.

  So, what if this new money brings all these "government leaches" out,
right into the wireless broadband market? What if you wake up tomorrow and
have 2 or 3 new competitors in your area? What about if they start using
3.65 along with all your deployments? Again, they have nothing to lose
because it wasn't their money and they don't care if they cause problems for
anyone else, because they are collecting $250k per year salaries and they
will ride it until it dries up.

  This whole "package" could be a HUGE mess for our entire industry. :(

  Travis
  Microserv

  John Scrivner wrote: 
I used to say our government had no place in broadband. One thing happened
that changed my thinking to some degree. A small rural town called Bluford,
Illinois used to have no broadband until a few years ago. At that time I
never used 900 MHz gear because it was out of my budget. Bluford was full of
trees. It is a very poor community which led me to believe they could not
afford the high price of 900 MHz CPEs. Basically Bluford defined the
"Digital Divide". My attitude toward USDA grants was "They should stay out
of this but if someone will get the money it might as well be me". I shot
for the moon. I budgeted for Waverider 900 MHz (The only 900 MHz gear
available at that time) and a new tower. I asked for free installs for all
residents. I ran surveys of every person in town. In short I did everything
the USDA required of the grant and then some. I even went to broadband
conventions and told others how to apply for grants.

Then a miracle happened.

My grant was funded. I received $310K to build service into Bluford. It was
the nicest setup I had ever done. The people of Bluford were ecstatic. Over
60% of all residents bought service. We built a free community technology
center at the local grade school. We gave free broadband to the schools, the
village hall, the fire department, etc. as a condition of the grant. Bluford
was doing great. Still, this had not really changed my thinking that Uncle
Sam should keep out of the broadband business.

One child did change my mind.

An 8 year old boy in Bluford got leukemia shortly after we setup the new
broadband there. Dad and son, alone, faced the dark days ahead. These people
were poor folks facing the horrors of cancer. Despite all this adversity and
gloom the boy had only one major mental obstacle which really cut to the
core for him. He could not face the prospects of having to be held back a
year of school. You see, he was forced into isolation from killing off his
immune system as a consequence of the bone marrow being destroyed and
replaced. He desparately wanted to finish school with his class. The schoool
called me and asked if we could help with the broadband grant program we had
won. We did. We bought a pan-tilt-zoom camera and set it up on a roll around
cart along with a speakerphone in his classroom. We installed broadband in
his home for free using 900 MHz radios to bust through the trees. The boy
attended classes virtually through this system. He beat 

[WISPA] TCP Flood?

[Patrick Nix Jr.]

I am having some extreme problems with network flooding.  It's coming
from within my network.  I can manually identify it and kill the
connection to that client, but how can I automatically detect and drop
these sorts of things.  I'm using Powercode along with an imagestream
router for all of my network management.  I know I should be able to use
some iptables rules to accomplish this but they don't seem to work along
with Powercode for some reason.  Anyone that has this type of
configuration that could give me some pointers?

 

Thanks

 

__

 

Patrick Nix, Jr.,

csweb.net

(918) 235-0414

http://www.csweb.net  

E-Mail: pni...@csweb.net

 



ATTENTION: This e-mail may contain information that is confidential in
nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail
and notify the sender immediately. Thank you.



 




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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Matt Liotta]

On Feb 16, 2009, at 2:15 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote:

> So if your BGP upstream is using a old firmware and passed you this  
> bogus
> path data your BGP session with them would flap.
>
That is not correct. Older firmwares were dropping sessions because of  
this. Regardless, the route in question would have been passed on  
downstreams.

-Matt




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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Jeff Broadwick]

Per Eric,

It appears that someone in Europe AS Path Padded their netblock
advertisement more then 255 times.

Best news is the problem was fixed as the source earlier today.  I think it
was only causing problems for an hour or two.

If this is caused by Cisco bug CSCdr54230 then fair number of operators out
there running old firmware.  The bug caused the length of those long
AS-Paths to be mis-calculated.  When the path was advertised to a BGP
neighbor it passed the AS-Path with incorrect length.  The neighbor would
detected this as corruption and terminate the BGP session.

So if your BGP upstream is using a old firmware and passed you this bogus
path data your BGP session with them would flap.

-Eric
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of John McDowell
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

We're running Imagestream, no BGP though...think this would affect us?

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Dylan Bouterse
wrote:

> We're getting off Cisco soon too. Moving to Juniper, maybe sooner than 
> later now!
>
> Dylan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Brad Belton
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:33 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
> So far we haven't seen any adverse effects, but we're not running BGP 
> with Cisco routers.
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] 
> On Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:27 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
> That AS was sending corrupted AS PATHs, which among other things has 
> been causing significant amounts of route flaps due to Cisco bug 
> CSCdr54230. Ciscos effected are losing their BGP session when they 
> encounter the AS PATH. Upstreams like us have busy routers because of 
> all the flaps.
>
> The community is filtering the AS right now pending resolution.
>
> -Matt
>
> On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:
>
> > I just had some BGP issues with one of my peers. Is this related you 
> > think? Please expand on the reason for the email.
> >
> > Dylan
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> > On
> > Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:18 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
> --
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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[eje]

Yes a good choice. We have been very happy with all our IS units we 
have(replaced Cicsco units). As well all people we assisted and sold 
ImageStream units to have been very happy with them. 
Great stable product line at great pricing and an excellent support. Product is 
of course lot more then say a MikroTik unit but basically you pay for the free 
support and you get a product that been design to work at your network edge and 
talk to your upstream provider while MikroTik is more designed to function 
inside your own system and do wireless and internal routing and authentication. 

/Eje
CTO
WISP-Router, Inc
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:20:04 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now


I'll second that suggestion.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "John Scrivner" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now


> Consider Imagestream (http://www.imagestream.com> for your high end 
> routing.
> They are high quality and lower cost than other high-end routing 
> solutions.
> Fantastic support and rock solid platform for routing.
> Scriv
>
> PS. They are a WISPA Vendor Member also.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Dylan Bouterse 
> wrote:
>
>> We're getting off Cisco soon too. Moving to Juniper, maybe sooner than
>> later now!
>>
>> Dylan
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brad Belton
>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:33 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>>
>> So far we haven't seen any adverse effects, but we're not running BGP
>> with
>> Cisco routers.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:27 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>>
>> That AS was sending corrupted AS PATHs, which among other things has
>> been causing significant amounts of route flaps due to Cisco bug
>> CSCdr54230. Ciscos effected are losing their BGP session when they
>> encounter the AS PATH. Upstreams like us have busy routers because of
>> all the flaps.
>>
>> The community is filtering the AS right now pending resolution.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:
>>
>> > I just had some BGP issues with one of my peers. Is this related you
>> > think? Please expand on the reason for the email.
>> >
>> > Dylan
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> > On
>> > Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:18 PM
>> > To: WISPA General List
>> > Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> > 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >
>> 
>> > 
>> >
>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >
>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >
>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
>> > 02/05/09 11:34:00
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> >
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>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Marlon K. Schafer]

I'll second that suggestion.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "John Scrivner" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now


> Consider Imagestream (http://www.imagestream.com> for your high end 
> routing.
> They are high quality and lower cost than other high-end routing 
> solutions.
> Fantastic support and rock solid platform for routing.
> Scriv
>
> PS. They are a WISPA Vendor Member also.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Dylan Bouterse 
> wrote:
>
>> We're getting off Cisco soon too. Moving to Juniper, maybe sooner than
>> later now!
>>
>> Dylan
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Brad Belton
>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:33 PM
>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>>
>> So far we haven't seen any adverse effects, but we're not running BGP
>> with
>> Cisco routers.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:27 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>>
>> That AS was sending corrupted AS PATHs, which among other things has
>> been causing significant amounts of route flaps due to Cisco bug
>> CSCdr54230. Ciscos effected are losing their BGP session when they
>> encounter the AS PATH. Upstreams like us have busy routers because of
>> all the flaps.
>>
>> The community is filtering the AS right now pending resolution.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:
>>
>> > I just had some BGP issues with one of my peers. Is this related you
>> > think? Please expand on the reason for the email.
>> >
>> > Dylan
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> > On
>> > Behalf Of Matt Liotta
>> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:18 PM
>> > To: WISPA General List
>> > Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> > 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >
>> 
>> > 
>> >
>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
>> > 02/05/09 11:34:00
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> >
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>> >
>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >
>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
>> 02/05/09 11:34:00
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> -

[WISPA] Solar Tax Credits?

[Randy Cosby]

Has anyone who is doing solar powered sites claiming any kind of tax 
credit on their 2008 taxes?  I'm a little fuzzy on what the requirements 
are for this, and how to document it, and what exactly qualifies. It 
appears there is a 30% credit available, but the sites I've read about 
it on are unclear on whether this available to just consumers, 
businesses, or both.  Any tips?

thanks,

-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

work: 435-773-6071
email: rco...@infowest.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby




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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Josh Luthman]

I too would absolutely love to hear a response to John's question - we're
moving to IS soon!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer


On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 12:54 PM, John McDowell  wrote:

> We're running Imagestream, no BGP though...think this would affect us?
>
> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Dylan Bouterse  >wrote:
>
> > We're getting off Cisco soon too. Moving to Juniper, maybe sooner than
> > later now!
> >
> > Dylan
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Brad Belton
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:33 PM
> > To: 'WISPA General List'
> >  Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
> >
> > So far we haven't seen any adverse effects, but we're not running BGP
> > with
> > Cisco routers.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> >
> > Brad
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:27 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
> >
> > That AS was sending corrupted AS PATHs, which among other things has
> > been causing significant amounts of route flaps due to Cisco bug
> > CSCdr54230. Ciscos effected are losing their BGP session when they
> > encounter the AS PATH. Upstreams like us have busy routers because of
> > all the flaps.
> >
> > The community is filtering the AS right now pending resolution.
> >
> > -Matt
> >
> > On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:
> >
> > > I just had some BGP issues with one of my peers. Is this related you
> > > think? Please expand on the reason for the email.
> > >
> > > Dylan
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> > > On
> > > Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> > > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:18 PM
> > > To: WISPA General List
> > > Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > > 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > 
> > > 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
> > > 02/05/09 11:34:00
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
> > 02/05/09 11:34:00
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> John M. McDowell
> Boonlink Communications
> 307 Grand Ave NW
> Fort Payne, AL 35967
> 256.844.9932
> j...@b

Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[John McDowell]

We're running Imagestream, no BGP though...think this would affect us?

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:

> We're getting off Cisco soon too. Moving to Juniper, maybe sooner than
> later now!
>
> Dylan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Brad Belton
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:33 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
> So far we haven't seen any adverse effects, but we're not running BGP
> with
> Cisco routers.
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:27 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
> That AS was sending corrupted AS PATHs, which among other things has
> been causing significant amounts of route flaps due to Cisco bug
> CSCdr54230. Ciscos effected are losing their BGP session when they
> encounter the AS PATH. Upstreams like us have busy routers because of
> all the flaps.
>
> The community is filtering the AS right now pending resolution.
>
> -Matt
>
> On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:
>
> > I just had some BGP issues with one of my peers. Is this related you
> > think? Please expand on the reason for the email.
> >
> > Dylan
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> > On
> > Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:18 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
> > 02/05/09 11:34:00
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
> 02/05/09 11:34:00
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



-- 
John M. McDowell
Boonlink Communications
307 Grand Ave NW
Fort Payne, AL 35967
256.844.9932
j...@boonlink.com
www.boonlink.com






This message contains information which may be confidential and privileged.
Unless you are the addressee (or authorized to receive for the addressee),
you may not use, copy, re-transmit, or disclose to anyone the message or any
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source, please contact the sender direc

Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[John Scrivner]

Consider Imagestream (http://www.imagestream.com> for your high end routing.
They are high quality and lower cost than other high-end routing solutions.
Fantastic support and rock solid platform for routing.
Scriv

PS. They are a WISPA Vendor Member also.



On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:

> We're getting off Cisco soon too. Moving to Juniper, maybe sooner than
> later now!
>
> Dylan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Brad Belton
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:33 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
> So far we haven't seen any adverse effects, but we're not running BGP
> with
> Cisco routers.
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:27 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
> That AS was sending corrupted AS PATHs, which among other things has
> been causing significant amounts of route flaps due to Cisco bug
> CSCdr54230. Ciscos effected are losing their BGP session when they
> encounter the AS PATH. Upstreams like us have busy routers because of
> all the flaps.
>
> The community is filtering the AS right now pending resolution.
>
> -Matt
>
> On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:
>
> > I just had some BGP issues with one of my peers. Is this related you
> > think? Please expand on the reason for the email.
> >
> > Dylan
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> > On
> > Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> > Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:18 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
> > 02/05/09 11:34:00
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
> 02/05/09 11:34:00
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Dylan Bouterse]

We're getting off Cisco soon too. Moving to Juniper, maybe sooner than
later now!

Dylan

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Brad Belton
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:33 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

So far we haven't seen any adverse effects, but we're not running BGP
with
Cisco routers.

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:27 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

That AS was sending corrupted AS PATHs, which among other things has  
been causing significant amounts of route flaps due to Cisco bug  
CSCdr54230. Ciscos effected are losing their BGP session when they  
encounter the AS PATH. Upstreams like us have busy routers because of  
all the flaps.

The community is filtering the AS right now pending resolution.

-Matt

On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:

> I just had some BGP issues with one of my peers. Is this related you
> think? Please expand on the reason for the email.
>
> Dylan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:18 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
> 02/05/09 11:34:00
>
>
>



> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>



>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
02/05/09 11:34:00



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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Brad Belton]

So far we haven't seen any adverse effects, but we're not running BGP with
Cisco routers.

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:27 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

That AS was sending corrupted AS PATHs, which among other things has  
been causing significant amounts of route flaps due to Cisco bug  
CSCdr54230. Ciscos effected are losing their BGP session when they  
encounter the AS PATH. Upstreams like us have busy routers because of  
all the flaps.

The community is filtering the AS right now pending resolution.

-Matt

On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:

> I just had some BGP issues with one of my peers. Is this related you
> think? Please expand on the reason for the email.
>
> Dylan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:18 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
> 02/05/09 11:34:00
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Dylan Bouterse]

One of my upstreams found this after I called in the issue (I'm sure
they were already aware of it) and filtered the AS out. I only had an
issue with one of my routers as it is hobbling along with full routes
and 256Mb of RAM. BGP was crashing on that one.  :/

Thanks for the heads up guys!

Dylan

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:27 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

That AS was sending corrupted AS PATHs, which among other things has  
been causing significant amounts of route flaps due to Cisco bug  
CSCdr54230. Ciscos effected are losing their BGP session when they  
encounter the AS PATH. Upstreams like us have busy routers because of  
all the flaps.

The community is filtering the AS right now pending resolution.

-Matt

On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:

> I just had some BGP issues with one of my peers. Is this related you
> think? Please expand on the reason for the email.
>
> Dylan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:18 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
>
>
>
>

> 
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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[sales]

Why would be nice to know ?

-Original Message-
From: Matt Liotta 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:17 PM
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now





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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Matt Liotta]

That AS was sending corrupted AS PATHs, which among other things has  
been causing significant amounts of route flaps due to Cisco bug  
CSCdr54230. Ciscos effected are losing their BGP session when they  
encounter the AS PATH. Upstreams like us have busy routers because of  
all the flaps.

The community is filtering the AS right now pending resolution.

-Matt

On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Dylan Bouterse wrote:

> I just had some BGP issues with one of my peers. Is this related you
> think? Please expand on the reason for the email.
>
> Dylan
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> On
> Behalf Of Matt Liotta
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:18 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
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> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
> 02/05/09 11:34:00
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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Brad Belton]

Really?  

http://www.cidr-report.org/cgi-bin/as-report?as=48438



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:19 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

what's that?

- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:17 AM
Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now


>
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[David E. Smith]

Dylan Bouterse wrote:
> I just had some BGP issues with one of my peers. Is this related you
> think? Please expand on the reason for the email.

Folks on NANOG are reporting that AS48438 is doing some very silly stuff 
(like trying to stuff in hundreds of AS-path prepends), which makes some 
BGP implementations generate lots of spurious route flaps. One of my 
upstreams has, for the last half-hour or so, gone from 5ms latency to 
several hundred ms, and I suspect it's related to an overloaded router 
trying to deal with this (and all the path flaps and such from their 
peers that can't cope with absurdly long paths, and)

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Dylan Bouterse]

I just had some BGP issues with one of my peers. Is this related you
think? Please expand on the reason for the email.

Dylan

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Liotta
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 12:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now






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Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date:
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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Marlon K. Schafer]

what's that?

- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Liotta" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:17 AM
Subject: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now


>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[John McDowell]

what is that?

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Matt Liotta  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> 
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307 Grand Ave NW
Fort Payne, AL 35967
256.844.9932
j...@boonlink.com
www.boonlink.com






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[WISPA] make sure you are filtering AS48438 right now

[Matt Liotta]

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Re: [WISPA] opinions on IFS for outdoor applications?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

I can't quite swing one to try just yet, but this is what I'm leaning toward 
for my smaller sites.

Outdoor rated.  Build in POE, lightning protection, remote reboot etc. etc. 
etc.  Almost everything that sits in my outdoor boxes is already in that 
single device.  And with it I need no outdoor box at all.

Pretty tempting.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Rogelio" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:58 AM
Subject: [WISPA] opinions on IFS for outdoor applications?


> Has anyone used this line of hardened outdoor switches?
>
> http://www.ifs.com/products.asp
>
> specifically, this one
>
> http://www.ifs.com/products_details.asp?item=88
>
> I've got a camera security application that needs an outdoor switch.
> Several cameras will need to be plugged into a switch, along with a
> BelAir BA200, and then several of those will aggregate into a Bridgewave
> for transport.
>
> Price is not really an issue here, I just need an outdoor switch that
> can take a pounding from the weather.
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Businesses come and go too Mark.

Because we don't like it or think it's a good idea for the country doesn't 
make this "wrong" in a moral or ethical sense.

I agree that this "package" is going to end up doing more harm than good. 
That knowledge won't stop anyone from spending the money though.  It's going 
to go out the door.

And the more of it that comes to me, the better it'll be.  *I* can make sure 
that whatever part I get ahold of is used for the good of my community.  My 
competition may not be so honorable.

By taking the grant funds I can minimize the damage this program will do. 
That's the smart thing to do.  It's also the right and honorable thing to 
do.  The only catch is to watch out for any strings that may be attached. 
We don't want to take money and use it to build things that aren't long term 
sustainable.

It's like this Mark.  I find a bag (hell, I STEAL the bag) full of money 
from a drug pusher.  He's already gotten the money.  If he keeps it he'll 
spend it in ways that will enrich his drug empire.  If I spend it I'll use 
it to enrich my family and my community.  Think I'm likely to give the money 
back to the bad guy?

We tried to do what was right and stop this madness.  But the deal is now 
done.  All we can do from here is minimize the damage.  Heck, we don't even 
be able to undo it, the money has to be handed out before the next election 
cycle.

It sucks, but I'm going to do what I can to make sure my community comes out 
of this in the best shape possible.  That means that *I* get as much money 
as I can, not the telco that's based on the other side of the country.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


> Not me.  If it's wrong, it's wrong.   I'm not going to say "it should not 
> be
> done" and then go after the money for myself.   I'd have to hide my face
> forever.Money comes and goes.   Conscience is forever.
>
>
> 
> 
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?
>
>
>> Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What else can we
>> do?
>>
>> marlon
>>
>>>
>>> Well, whatcha gonna do?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
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>
>
>
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[WISPA] opinions on IFS for outdoor applications?

[Rogelio]

Has anyone used this line of hardened outdoor switches?

http://www.ifs.com/products.asp

specifically, this one

http://www.ifs.com/products_details.asp?item=88

I've got a camera security application that needs an outdoor switch. 
Several cameras will need to be plugged into a switch, along with a 
BelAir BA200, and then several of those will aggregate into a Bridgewave 
for transport.

Price is not really an issue here, I just need an outdoor switch that 
can take a pounding from the weather.



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Re: [WISPA] Fiber to Gige Converter ?

[Adam Greene]

I've always had good experience with this company:

www.transition.com


- Original Message - 
From: "Gino Villarini" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fiber to Gige Converter ?


>I know thwy are lots of alternative, I wanted a recommendation for
> something reliable
>
> thanks
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Brad Belton
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 6:05 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fiber to Gige Converter ?
>
> Oh, well that's easy.  Any number of products are available that will do
> what you need.  Just search fiber media converter.
>
> We've had several TrendNet fiber media converters in service for years.
> Some have been on rooftops in NEMA enclosures and have endured years of
> heat and cold cycles without issue.  Considering the price of TrendNet
> products they have far exceeded my expectations.
>
> http://www.trendnet.com/products/products.asp?cat=22
>
> Best,
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Gino Villarini
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 3:35 PM
> To: WISPA General List; lakel...@gbcx.net
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fiber to Gige Converter ?
>
> Multimode to GigE Copper
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Brad Belton
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 5:11 PM
> To: lakel...@gbcx.net; 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fiber to Gige Converter ?
>
> Actually I was just about to step away from the WISPA Help Desk for a
> bit.
> Bob, feel free to take this call...  
>
> Best,
>
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of lakel...@gbcx.net
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 2:55 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fiber to Gige Converter ?
>
> Disregard my last transmission. Brad has this covered
>
> -B-
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Brad Belton" 
>
> Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:26:44
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Fiber to Gige Converter ?
>
>
> Need more information.  What kind of fiber?  SM MM?  What kind of GigE
> interface?  Copper or fiber.  If fiber is it SM or MM?
>
> Brad
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Gino Villarini
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 2:19 PM
> To: Motorola Canopy User Group; WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Fiber to Gige Converter ?
>
> Any recomendattions on a reliable unit?
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> g...@aeronetpr.com
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?

[Brian Rohrbacher]

But it's your money?  You pay taxes right?  How can you feel wrong
about getting back what they took from you?

Brian

rea...@muddyfrogwater.us wrote:

  Not me.  If it's wrong, it's wrong.   I'm not going to say "it should not be 
done" and then go after the money for myself.   I'd have to hide my face 
forever.Money comes and goes.   Conscience is forever.





- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] What does this mean to wisps?


  
  
Me?  I'm gonna go for as much grant money as I can get.  What else can we
do?

marlon



  Well, whatcha gonna do?


  




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Re: [WISPA] It can mean everything

[Ron Wallace]

I chose Scriv & Tom's Stories. When I first started Scriv, Rick Harnish, & 
Marlon shaffer spent a lot of time and energy assisting me whenever I asked for 
help. They never said 'no', they never ignored my requests no matter how simple 
or ignorant of the facts I was. My system is still small, but growing. We are 
getting there. 

If I were to make a recommendation, I would listen closely to what John 
Scrivner, Tom DeReggi, Rick Harnish and others who given so much to "you and I" 
say and recommend. There are reasons why they are where they are.

Ron Wallace
Hahnron, Inc.
220 S. Jackson Dt.
Addison, MI 49220

Phone: (517)547-8410
Mobile: (517)270-2410
e-mail: rwall...@newgenet.net
 rwall...@tigernet.bz
-Original Message-
From: John Scrivner [mailto:j...@scrivner.com]
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 01:33 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] It can mean everything

I used to say our government had no place in broadband. One thing happenedthat 
changed my thinking to some degree. A small rural town called Bluford,Illinois 
used to have no broadband until a few years ago. At that time Inever used 900 
MHz gear because it was out of my budget. Bluford was full oftrees. It is a 
very poor community which led me to believe they could notafford the high price 
of 900 MHz CPEs. Basically Bluford defined the"Digital Divide". My attitude 
toward USDA grants was "They should stay outof this but if someone will get the 
money it might as well be me". I shotfor the moon. I budgeted for Waverider 900 
MHz (The only 900 MHz gearavailable at that time) and a new tower. I asked for 
free installs for allresidents. I ran surveys of every person in town. In short 
I did everythingthe USDA required of the grant and then some. I even went to 
broadbandconventions and told others how to apply for grants.Then a miracle 
happened.My grant was funded. I received $310K to 
 build service into Bluford. It wasthe nicest setup I had ever done. The people 
of Bluford were ecstatic. Over60% of all residents bought service. We built a 
free community technologycenter at the local grade school. We gave free 
broadband to the schools, thevillage hall, the fire department, etc. as a 
condition of the grant. Blufordwas doing great. Still, this had not really 
changed my thinking that UncleSam should keep out of the broadband business.One 
child did change my mind.An 8 year old boy in Bluford got leukemia shortly 
after we setup the newbroadband there. Dad and son, alone, faced the dark days 
ahead. These peoplewere poor folks facing the horrors of cancer. Despite all 
this adversity andgloom the boy had only one major mental obstacle which really 
cut to thecore for him. He could not face the prospects of having to be held 
back ayear of school. You see, he was forced into isolation from killing off 
hisimmune system as a consequence of the bone marrow being destroy
 ed andreplaced. He desparately wanted to finish school with his class. The 
schooolcalled me and asked if we could help with the broadband grant program we 
hadwon. We did. We bought a pan-tilt-zoom camera and set it up on a roll 
aroundcart along with a speakerphone in his classroom. We installed broadband 
inhis home for free using 900 MHz radios to bust through the trees. The 
boyattended classes virtually through this system. He beat his cancer. He 
alsofinished his year with his fellow students.How much is this worth?It seems 
to me that this particular broadband application is much like the"Priceless" 
description we see in those VISA commercials. But let's try toput a dollar 
amount on it. Is it worth $310K to be able to do this? Is itpossible that this 
one boy's hope alone is worth $310K and the fact that thewhole town now has 
broadband is a bonus?Maybe it is ok to let our leaders lead for a change.I have 
seen many bad things come from bad government in my 43 years on thisear
 th. I have been fortunate enough to see some good things too. Untilrecently I 
thought cynicism was going to rule the day forever in regard togovernment. I 
thought patrotism was dead. I thought the American Dream hadfaded and spoiled 
into a nightmare. Sadly the government has done much toamplify those feelings. 
Regardless of your politics you have to be worried.Maybe it is ok to have hope 
too. Maybe we should try for once to say that wewill take our leader's lead and 
try to stimulate our economy throughbroadband deployment. I am willing to give 
it a shot. Maybe this will notwork but maybe it will. What if success or 
failure of this program is moredependent on how we make use of this program 
than whether or not the programis right or wrong? This is possibly the most 
unique opportunity of ourlives. The government is basically telling us they 
want us to save thecountry. They are opening up the bank and saying to us, 
"What would you doto make broadband a stimulating force to aid 
 this country's economy if moneywas not a barrier to your success?" I am going 
to have to s