Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
A sole proprietorship is different than a bland proprietorship My accountant did everything for my incorporation for... $800? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Marlon K. Schafer" Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 10:54 AM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability > One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'. > > We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We are a > proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated > and > expensive to do right). I'm still a business though > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset > > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Charles Wu" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital > Availability > > >> Hi Marlon, >> >> I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on >> things so everyone is on the same page >> >> Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define >> >> Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood >> or profit >> >> Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and >> codifies a specific method of proprietorship >> >> Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, >> brand, marketing, etc >> >>>Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's >>>also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it >>>sucks, >> >> Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and >> in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth >> anything more than the depreciated value of its assets >> >> Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have >> of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps >> (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because >> of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those >> customers would probably go back to being on the open market) >> >> Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth >> noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the >> creation >> of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the >> recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, >> this is akin to real-estate >> >>>Not >>>everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for >>>every >>>business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money >>>they >>>made was when it was just them, no employees..) But then again, >>>that's >>>one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and >>>flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator >>>dreams >>>to bear fuit! >> >> True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has value >> (be happy we're not plumbers =) >> >> -Charles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Starting a wisp - required capital
Don't believe anyone says at this stage in the game about who is getting funding. They haven't published rules or applications, much less accepted anything. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Scottie Arnett" Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 11:52 PM To: ; "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] Starting a wisp - required capital > What you are missing...is most of us can't get the funding to build that > Backhaul required and provide CPE for 100,000 CPE up front. Ok, sorry, I > see you are talking about Cali! > > Many of us are covering rural areas that the local telco is not yetand > if they do...they are getting subsidized by the government to do it! > > If you want to know the real solution to the problem...go back about 10 > years ago when the USA Congress got rid of line sharing and instituted all > the fiber rules that left 90% of the ISP's out in the cold because of > Congress's rules. The Congress funded all the copper and most of the fiber > deployments to these places that the telco's promised to build out. > > We have been picking up stragglers (ones even gov't funded monopolist's > won't get to, because it cost them too much) for years. > > Now, make a lease agreement for that crap that any one would agree too. I > mean having to depend on the government from month to month and their > decisions. Most of you deal with publicly traded companiesdeal with a > few govt subsidized(rural telcos...they are getting 80% of that USF fee > you are paying on you city telephone fees!) > > I have already heard that one area we cover is getting Obama's funds to > build out FTTH in an area that has Population in July 2007: 1,892. > > Now! Deal with that. > > Scottie > > It's a freaking Circus act here! > > Scottie > -- Original Message -- > From: char...@thewybles.com > Reply-To: char...@thewybles.com, WISPA General List > Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 17:07:54 + > >>All these talks about financing have been very interesting. >> >>Let's say I wanted to start a wisp to serve a medium city in southern >>california (population 100,000 or so). >> >>I can get access to gigabit fiber for a 1 time cross connect fee of 2500 >>and a monthly cost of 1500. There are a few spots in town that would have >>Los to large portions of the city. >> >>I'm thinking 100,000 to cover initial costs (cpe/ap/ tower rental/mapping >>/spectrum analysis/marketing/sales). >> >>What are the pieces I'm missing? (I would use contractors for the initial >>build, and onforce.com for tech rolls). Anyone have a spreadsheet that >>has all the various pieces? >> >> >>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile >> >> >> >>WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>--- >>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] >> >> > > Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as > $30.00/mth. > Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
Charles, you really should investigate the business sizes out there. Without doing any research today, I'd say there were more " one man band " businesses out there than any other type, unless you're going to lump a lot of "types" together, like all the 2-100 employee businesses. And there's a lot of 2-10 people businesses, as well. How does a "one man band" work? Hard. And he often serves people who are engaged in similar enterprise. It isn't suited to all, nor even a majority of people, the small sector ( 1 - 10 people ) is probably the most resilient and dynamic of all business models out there. - Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability > Hi Rick, > > I applaud your effort -- I totally emphasize and understand your > perspective, as 8 years ago, I was a one man shop working out of my > college dorm room trying to get a business started > > There is an unfortunate reality that the one-man band is not a sustainable > long-term operation -- for example, how will you ever go on a vacation? Or > spend quality time with the wife without the ever-present threat / fear > that lightening may strike...somewhere > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How to stabilize Pole for 30" Drum Antenna?
We call them MESH networks im the tactical world, fun stuff Sent from my iPhone On May 25, 2009, at 1:54 PM, char...@thewybles.com wrote: > Gah! An on topic thread about tactical operational aspects of a > wisp!!! :) > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -Original Message- > From: Matt Jenkins > > Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 12:17:53 > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to stabilize Pole for 30" Drum Antenna? > > > Gino, > > I had a 3' Radiowaves dish installed (for almost a year) on top of a > 10ft 4.5" mast in a similar situation. I used the clamp linked below > to > attach it to the railing. > > http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=482468&eventGroup=4&eventPage=1 > > > > - Matt > > > > Gino Villarini wrote: >> Actually, check this pic... Its self explanatory... This is the only >> setup we can do on the bldg... But we are left without a >> perpenticular >> stabilizer... >> >> >> Gino A. Villarini >> g...@aeronetpr.com >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >> boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Gino Villarini >> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:35 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to stabilize Pole for 30" Drum Antenna? >> >> Well imagine that we have a big wall...were we would install a wall >> mount base and the 4"pipe, the Pipe would potrude from the wall and >> the >> antenna would be installed in the upper part of the pipe above from >> the >> wall ... Point is we could install stabilizing arms to the pipe >> and the >> wall... They would be parallel to the wall ... But we don't ahave any >> other surface to intall a stabilizer in a perpenticular way to tha >> wall >> >> Clear? No? >> >> >> Gino A. Villarini >> g...@aeronetpr.com >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >> boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Jack Unger >> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:29 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to stabilize Pole for 30" Drum Antenna? >> >> Gino, >> >> Can you clarify what you mean by "parallel" and "perpendicular" >> (relative to what)? >> >> jack >> >> >> Gino Villarini wrote: >> >>> we are goint to mount a 30" 11 Ghz Drum in a bldg rooftop, we are >>> goint to use a 4" Mast, any ideas on how to stabilize it? >>> >>> We have parallel atachment points but none perpenticular... any >>> ideas >>> on this? >>> >>> >>> Gino A. Villarini >>> g...@aeronetpr.com >>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >>> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> --- >>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> --- >>> -- >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> --- >>> --- >>> --- >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> --- >>> --- >>> --- >>> --- >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > --- > --- > --- > --- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > --- > --- > --- > --- > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > --- > --- > --- > --- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > --- > --- > --- > --- > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
In Oregon the filing costs is nothing to incorporate. Of course a lawyer will charge what they will to fill out the forms. One thing the sole proprietor is missing out on not being an s or c corp is the tax benefit associated with social security. Of course thee is more work to be a corporation, but there is also a tax savings as well. Travis Johnson wrote: > Huh? We incorporated in 1997 and I think total cost was less than $500. > How do you ever expect to get away from having to do personal guarantees > if you don't operate like a "real" business? > > Travis > Microserv > > Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >> One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'. >> >> We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We are a >> proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated and >> expensive to do right). I'm still a business though >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset >> >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Charles Wu" >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability >> >> >> >>> Hi Marlon, >>> >>> I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on >>> things so everyone is on the same page >>> >>> Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define >>> >>> Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood >>> or profit >>> >>> Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and >>> codifies a specific method of proprietorship >>> >>> Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, >>> brand, marketing, etc >>> >>> Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it sucks, >>> Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and >>> in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth >>> anything more than the depreciated value of its assets >>> >>> Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have >>> of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps >>> (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because >>> of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those >>> customers would probably go back to being on the open market) >>> >>> Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth >>> noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the creation >>> of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the >>> recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, >>> this is akin to real-estate >>> >>> Not everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for every business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money they made was when it was just them, no employees..) But then again, that's one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator dreams to bear fuit! >>> True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has value >>> (be happy we're not plumbers =) >>> >>> -Charles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How to stabilize Pole for 30" Drum Antenna?
Gah! An on topic thread about tactical operational aspects of a wisp!!! :) Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Matt Jenkins Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 12:17:53 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to stabilize Pole for 30" Drum Antenna? Gino, I had a 3' Radiowaves dish installed (for almost a year) on top of a 10ft 4.5" mast in a similar situation. I used the clamp linked below to attach it to the railing. http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=482468&eventGroup=4&eventPage=1 - Matt Gino Villarini wrote: > Actually, check this pic... Its self explanatory... This is the only > setup we can do on the bldg... But we are left without a perpenticular > stabilizer... > > > Gino A. Villarini > g...@aeronetpr.com > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Gino Villarini > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:35 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to stabilize Pole for 30" Drum Antenna? > > Well imagine that we have a big wall...were we would install a wall > mount base and the 4"pipe, the Pipe would potrude from the wall and the > antenna would be installed in the upper part of the pipe above from the > wall ... Point is we could install stabilizing arms to the pipe and the > wall... They would be parallel to the wall ... But we don't ahave any > other surface to intall a stabilizer in a perpenticular way to tha wall > > Clear? No? > > > Gino A. Villarini > g...@aeronetpr.com > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Jack Unger > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:29 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to stabilize Pole for 30" Drum Antenna? > > Gino, > > Can you clarify what you mean by "parallel" and "perpendicular" > (relative to what)? > > jack > > > Gino Villarini wrote: > >> we are goint to mount a 30" 11 Ghz Drum in a bldg rooftop, we are >> goint to use a 4" Mast, any ideas on how to stabilize it? >> >> We have parallel atachment points but none perpenticular... any ideas >> on this? >> >> >> Gino A. Villarini >> g...@aeronetpr.com >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How to stabilize Pole for 30" Drum Antenna?
Gino, I had a 3' Radiowaves dish installed (for almost a year) on top of a 10ft 4.5" mast in a similar situation. I used the clamp linked below to attach it to the railing. http://www.tessco.com/products/displayProductInfo.do?sku=482468&eventGroup=4&eventPage=1 - Matt Gino Villarini wrote: > Actually, check this pic... Its self explanatory... This is the only > setup we can do on the bldg... But we are left without a perpenticular > stabilizer... > > > Gino A. Villarini > g...@aeronetpr.com > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Gino Villarini > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:35 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to stabilize Pole for 30" Drum Antenna? > > Well imagine that we have a big wall...were we would install a wall > mount base and the 4"pipe, the Pipe would potrude from the wall and the > antenna would be installed in the upper part of the pipe above from the > wall ... Point is we could install stabilizing arms to the pipe and the > wall... They would be parallel to the wall ... But we don't ahave any > other surface to intall a stabilizer in a perpenticular way to tha wall > > Clear? No? > > > Gino A. Villarini > g...@aeronetpr.com > Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. > tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Jack Unger > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:29 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to stabilize Pole for 30" Drum Antenna? > > Gino, > > Can you clarify what you mean by "parallel" and "perpendicular" > (relative to what)? > > jack > > > Gino Villarini wrote: > >> we are goint to mount a 30" 11 Ghz Drum in a bldg rooftop, we are >> goint to use a 4" Mast, any ideas on how to stabilize it? >> >> We have parallel atachment points but none perpenticular... any ideas >> on this? >> >> >> Gino A. Villarini >> g...@aeronetpr.com >> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
Which is one of the many reasons I incorporated. But, due to the financial industries turmoil, they are now requiring personal guarantees. -RickG On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: > Huh? We incorporated in 1997 and I think total cost was less than $500. How > do you ever expect to get away from having to do personal guarantees if you > don't operate like a "real" business? > > Travis > Microserv > > Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > > One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'. > > We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We are a > proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated and > expensive to do right). I'm still a business though > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset > > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Charles Wu" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability > > > > > Hi Marlon, > > I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on > things so everyone is on the same page > > Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define > > Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood > or profit > > Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and > codifies a specific method of proprietorship > > Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, > brand, marketing, etc > > > > Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's > also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it > sucks, > > > Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and > in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth > anything more than the depreciated value of its assets > > Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have > of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps > (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because > of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those > customers would probably go back to being on the open market) > > Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth > noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the creation > of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the > recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, > this is akin to real-estate > > > > Not > everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for every > business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money > they > made was when it was just them, no employees..) But then again, > that's > one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and > flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator > dreams > to bear fuit! > > > True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has value > (be happy we're not plumbers =) > > -Charles > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wireless Beehive 58DP
Lastmilegear.com should have them. Jayson Baker wrote: > Anyone used the 58DP from WB? > > Anyone have them in stock? > > Jayson > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
Ah yes, the power if recurring revenue. A benefit of replicating your work with other humans and/or devices (I prefer the later). A better path to making money that trading your time for a direct wage. This is one of the reasons I got into this business. However, at the early stages, your are like a doctor or plumber - you're on call 24x7. In fact, even on Memorial Day, I've got a business customer to call right now! -RickG On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > In that respect you are correct. But I stand by my statement that many > successful business people work long hours and don't always take 2 days per > week off. Or they are always on some level of stand-by. > > You are very correct that our income is much more predictable and isn't > dependant upon us being there for the generation of every penny. > > Charles is making the point that people can't and shouldn't work without > employees. We shouldn't get ourselves into that spot that we're on call 24/7 > or working 12 and 14 hour days 6 days per week. My point is that no really > successful people work 8 to 5 Monday thru Friday. At least not in the > building stages of what they do. In that regard, big or small, we're no > different from many many other professionals. > > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: Travis Johnson > To: WISPA General List > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 11:01 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability > > > Marlon, > > If you think the WISP business is similar to a doctor or dentist or plumber, > you are very mistaken. The best advice I have ever heard actually came from > the son of a very wealthy doctor in our area. He sold his son "find something > that isn't trading your time for money". I heard that about 10 years ago in a > meeting, and it has stuck with me forever. > > A doctor or dentist or plumber all trade their time for money. They bill per > hour (even if it's $5,000 per hour) or per job, but they are still trading > their time for money. The WISP business is nothing like this. It's actually a > very unique business compared to anything else out there. It has recurring > monthly income, yet the expenses are pretty much fixed. Other recurring > income businesses that are similar would be insurance... however, their > expenses vary from month to month depending on number of claims, size of > claims, etc. Right now, if I stopped all my growth, my expenses would be > exactly the same from month to month... and the income would remain the same > as well. > > Travis > Microserv > > Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Charles Wu" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 8:56 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability > > > Marlon, > > Charles, your numbers are WAY off there. > You can't base your numbers on the fact that you're willing to be on call > 24x7, work 12 hour days 7 days / week as a function of "normal business > operations" -- it simply isn't sustainable from a long term perspective > > Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's > also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes is > sucks, but remember that we can also give ourselves time off nearly anytime > we really want it. I don't miss very many of the kid's baseball games, > dance recitles, field trips or anything else. > > Eventually, your wife WILL leave you if you keep this up (on a side note, > one of the biggest reasons I've seen for small WISPs selling out is the > wife factor =) > > The reasons I've usually seen are that people get in this for a quick buck. > When that doesn't happen they burn out/bail out. But that's no different > than any other industry I see. And I've seen a lot, I've been doing office > equipment repair work since about 1990 or 92. I've always tried to learn > from my customers, what works, why etc. Not many bail on a company that's > making good money, no matter how much time it's taking. > > If you were to replace yourself with normal employees that work 8-5 and > who make market wages, you'd probably discover that your labor costs will > go up $!0-15k / month (I would argue that you probably personally do the > work of 3 people in your company) > > Believe it or not, I do the work of less than one most of the time. It's > been a bit more than that lately but only because I'm too cheap to hire help > and can't afford to replace all the my POS Tranzeo AP's with MT units all at > once. Once I get the network running nicer my service calls will drop off a > lot. The difference at the sites that are already done has been nothing > short of amazing. > > The rest of the time I'm screwing around with WISPA stuff or helping local > orgs of some kind. I might put in a 40 to 60 hour week, but a lot of the > time is non esential. > > Also, if I get too busy I bring a help
[WISPA] Legal Entity - which type? Was: Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
Ha! Another interesting topic! In the past, when doing business for myself, I legally filed as a sole-proprietor. When I got into the WISP business, for a multitude of reasons, I became an "S-Corp". After filing my taxes, it seems to be much simpler and possibly more advantageous to just be a sole-proprietor. But that goes against all advise I receive. Marlon, I'm actually surprised that you are a sole-proprietor. What benefits have you found by remaining so? -RickG On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'. > > We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We are a > proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated and > expensive to do right). I'm still a business though > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset > > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Charles Wu" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability > > >> Hi Marlon, >> >> I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on >> things so everyone is on the same page >> >> Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define >> >> Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood >> or profit >> >> Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and >> codifies a specific method of proprietorship >> >> Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, >> brand, marketing, etc >> >>>Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's >>>also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it >>>sucks, >> >> Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and >> in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth >> anything more than the depreciated value of its assets >> >> Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have >> of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps >> (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because >> of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those >> customers would probably go back to being on the open market) >> >> Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth >> noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the creation >> of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the >> recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, >> this is akin to real-estate >> >>>Not >>>everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for every >>>business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money >>>they >>>made was when it was just them, no employees..) But then again, >>>that's >>>one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and >>>flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator >>>dreams >>>to bear fuit! >> >> True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has value >> (be happy we're not plumbers =) >> >> -Charles >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
Charles, I replied to your previous response so I wont be redundant here. It appears we are in sync in thought. As a previous senior manager at several companies large & small, I've hired/fired my share of people. The human factor is huge. One of my favorite books is "The eMyth Revisited" (http://www.amazon.com/E-Myth-Revisited-Small-Businesses-About/dp/0887307280). I was fully aware of the labor situation going into this business although I underestimated this particular area. Like most businesses, when I created the model for the company I planned for an eventual sale. If I were to take it to the next step, a completely different model would need to be developed. In fact, my original model would have been developed much differently. Which takes me back to the original point of this particular thread. If I had $100k, I'd do it again. But, what works here probably wont work in the LA area for reasons we all know. At any rate, putting a dollar figure on it is the easy part. What people need to be aware of is that it is not without a lot of blood, sweat, & tears that cant even be put into words. For me and many others, this is a great business but it is anything but easy or even remotely close to easy. YMMV! Just my .02! -RickG On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 12:20 AM, Charles Wu wrote: > Hi Rick, > > I applaud your effort -- I totally emphasize and understand your perspective, > as 8 years ago, I was a one man shop working out of my college dorm room > trying to get a business started > > There is an unfortunate reality that the one-man band is not a sustainable > long-term operation -- for example, how will you ever go on a vacation? Or > spend quality time with the wife without the ever-present threat / fear that > lightening may strike...somewhere > > That said, all is not lost -- the good news is that unlike most businesses, > the underlying business model of a WISP (e.g., the recurring revenue and > ownership of infrastructure) has a lot of intrinsic worth -- so even if > you're not able to scale and build an actual business (as I will outline > below) -- you've still created an asset that has value and can be sold > >>For me, now as an owner/operator, good labor is the problem. > > I would argue that this is the challenge faced by every business owner (small > or large) in every industry all across the country > > And as Jack Welch says it, the answer is simple -- just "hire good people who > are A players" > > There's theory, and then there's reality; and the truth of the matter is that > advice is as worthless as the advice my high school track coach would give me > to help me win the race -- "Just run faster" he'd say -- "then you'll win no > problem" > > Duh > > Now, back to "hiring A players" -- and a few cogent points that I've learned > with the 40+ employees that I've hired/fired/scared off over the last 8 years > > 1. We (the business owner/entrepreneur/key guy) are all A players > 2. We just need to clone ourselves and then we'll have the perfect employee =) > > Here's the kicker > > 3. Since we decided to work for ourselves because we didn't want to be "just > another employee" -- chances are our that if an employee is truly a clone of > us (e.g., an A player), they probably wouldn't be working for us but would > rather go start their own business venture > > So, it becomes an interesting conundrum, how does one hire an A player when > none of them are willing to be employees =) > >>I have >>gone through dozens of guys in the past two years but none become long >>term. It's not the pay because they tell me the pay is fair. The main >>reasons are the lost work ethic and personal problems, at least in >>this area. > > There are a few things that I learned over the years that I think have > contributed to my personal and corporate growth...specifically > > 1. Although there are very few (as in 1 out of 1000) A players for hire "out > of the box" -- with proper bumper rails, B & C players can be made to perform > as well (if not better than) A players > > 2. To accomplish 1 requires the creation of business systems / processes / > culture > > 3. To accomplish 2 requires a great deal of overhead that only occurs when an > organization has significant scale (50+ employees) > > That said, to reiterate, there is nothing wrong with going the one-man shop > route -- just don't kid yourself into thinking that you're building a > business and be happy that the beauty of the WISP business model is that you > also currently build an underlying asset (infrastructure and customer > contracts) that has a pretty sizeable and appreciable value. > > And be happy you're not a consultant or a retail store =) > > -Charles > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.o
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
Charles, I agree with you on these points. In fact, I mentioned them to keep the discussion fair. The main point I was making is that local labor resources with knowledge and experience is difficult if not impossible to find. Of course, that is an age old issue for businesses everywhere. As far as a sell out factor, the wife is as good of a reason as any :) -RickG On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 11:56 PM, Charles Wu wrote: > Marlon, > >>Charles, your numbers are WAY off there. > > You can't base your numbers on the fact that you're willing to be on call > 24x7, work 12 hour days 7 days / week as a function of "normal business > operations" -- it simply isn't sustainable from a long term perspective > > Eventually, your wife WILL leave you if you keep this up (on a side note, one > of the biggest reasons I've seen for small WISPs selling out is the wife > factor =) > > If you were to replace yourself with normal employees that work 8-5 and who > make market wages, you'd probably discover that your labor costs will go up > $!0-15k / month (I would argue that you probably personally do the work of 3 > people in your company) > >>By the time I hit 600 to 800 subs I'm gonna need some help. Hiring that >>person will suck big time because I won't have enough work for them right >>away. That move alone will likely cut my margin down to nearly nothing for >>a couple of years. > > After you factor in your time / opportunity cost / resources / overhead / > time spent training -- you will spend an additional 2x an employee's salary > during the first 6 months of employment trying to get them trained up and > productive -- and then, there's a good chance they just don't work out =) > > -Charles > > > - Original Message - > From: "Charles Wu" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 8:07 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability > > >> Hi Scott, >> >> Regarding debt...I've found that there's a "scale inflection point" in >> running a WISP (or any business for the matter) that needs to be >> reached -- the main purpose for taking on debt (because due to interest, >> you end up paying more in the longer term instead of buying cash), is to >> accelerate growth so one can progress beyond this point >> >> e.g., if you can organically fund 30 new installs a month with cash, if >> you take on debt, you could leverage yourself and now do 100 installs / >> month >> >> Now, from a business perspective -- in looking at the WISP >> >> As a stand-alone sustainable business -- it costs a minimum of about $30k >> / month to operate a small WISP -- now, I'll argue that that $30k/month in >> operations remains relatively constant and whether it's supporting 300, >> 800 or 1500 customers -- however, at 300 customers, the business is >> bleeding cash...at 800 customers the business is just about at a >> break-even, and at 1500 customers, the business is a cash machine >> >> -Charles >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Scott Reed >> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 4:20 PM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital >> Availability >> >> So I will take option 4 from a previous post since Travis made the point. >> "Up to 60 months with $1 buyout is the same as a 5 year bank loan." >> I want to run debt free as soon a possible. That being the case I don't >> lease and have not leased to keep debt down. I do have a start-up loan >> that is being paid on a little slower than I would like, but we have >> paid off 1/2 of it in < 5 years and based on our payments, we are cash >> flow positive. >> Granted, my WISP is a lot smaller than many that post here and our >> growth rate is small, but some of that is managing growth to stay >> cash-flow positive. >> I have seen several companies die because they became cash rich, but >> still could not cover the debt. >> >> Travis Johnson wrote: >>> The banks can sell a car with little effort. They already have >>> relationships with dealers and auctions. And often, if the consumer's >>> credit is questionable, the dealer will guarantee to take the car back >>> if the loan defaults. >>> >>> Who is going to buy a $10,000 radio that has been repo'd? Even for >>> $5k, I wouldn't touch it. I'd buy a new radio with warranty, that I >>> know is good and hasn't been fried or broken. >>> >>> The banks will never loan on the equipment alone. There is no security >>> there... but again, why do you need a bank loan for equipment when you >>> can just lease it and get the same results? Up to 60 months with $1 >>> buyout is the same as a 5 year bank loan. What's the difference? >>> >>> Travis >>> Microserv >>> >>> Tom DeReggi wrote: Maybe when talking about CPE. But what about when one is talking about a $10,000 Part101 radio? Just like a car, all that the lender should need is to "hold the tit
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
Huh? We incorporated in 1997 and I think total cost was less than $500. How do you ever expect to get away from having to do personal guarantees if you don't operate like a "real" business? Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'. We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We are a proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated and expensive to do right). I'm still a business though http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset marlon - Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability Hi Marlon, I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on things so everyone is on the same page Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood or profit Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and codifies a specific method of proprietorship Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, brand, marketing, etc Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it sucks, Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth anything more than the depreciated value of its assets Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those customers would probably go back to being on the open market) Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the creation of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, this is akin to real-estate Not everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for every business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money they made was when it was just them, no employees..) But then again, that's one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator dreams to bear fuit! True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has value (be happy we're not plumbers =) -Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Starting a wisp - required capital
LOL Careful what you wish for! marlon - Original Message - From: "Rick Kunze" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Starting a wisp - required capital > On 5/24/2009 9:25 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: >> I'd start MUCH smaller and grow organically though. You should be able >> to >> start with less than $25k and keep the rest for operating and unexpected >> expenses. > > I tend to agree, and have been at this just as long. The luckiest thing > I did was to put up my main tower back around 2000. > > www.do-it-yourself-tower.com > > The turn-key quote for such a tower was around $60k back then, it's > probably a bit more now. But by doing it myself it was less than $25k. > And no, I had no experience. It was actually the first time I ever > poured much concrete! But the alternative, renting tower space, would > have cost just as much on a monthly basis yet the tower was paid off in > 3 years and now I've got monthly revenue coming from it due to cell > phone company colocation contracts. I've already made all the tower > money back. > > I'm considering putting up another one to be honest. A few more of > those and this Internet business can burn to the ground for all I care! > > Rk > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Starting a wisp - required capital
On 5/24/2009 9:25 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > I'd start MUCH smaller and grow organically though. You should be able to > start with less than $25k and keep the rest for operating and unexpected > expenses. I tend to agree, and have been at this just as long. The luckiest thing I did was to put up my main tower back around 2000. www.do-it-yourself-tower.com The turn-key quote for such a tower was around $60k back then, it's probably a bit more now. But by doing it myself it was less than $25k. And no, I had no experience. It was actually the first time I ever poured much concrete! But the alternative, renting tower space, would have cost just as much on a monthly basis yet the tower was paid off in 3 years and now I've got monthly revenue coming from it due to cell phone company colocation contracts. I've already made all the tower money back. I'm considering putting up another one to be honest. A few more of those and this Internet business can burn to the ground for all I care! Rk WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
In that respect you are correct. But I stand by my statement that many successful business people work long hours and don't always take 2 days per week off. Or they are always on some level of stand-by. You are very correct that our income is much more predictable and isn't dependant upon us being there for the generation of every penny. Charles is making the point that people can't and shouldn't work without employees. We shouldn't get ourselves into that spot that we're on call 24/7 or working 12 and 14 hour days 6 days per week. My point is that no really successful people work 8 to 5 Monday thru Friday. At least not in the building stages of what they do. In that regard, big or small, we're no different from many many other professionals. marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability Marlon, If you think the WISP business is similar to a doctor or dentist or plumber, you are very mistaken. The best advice I have ever heard actually came from the son of a very wealthy doctor in our area. He sold his son "find something that isn't trading your time for money". I heard that about 10 years ago in a meeting, and it has stuck with me forever. A doctor or dentist or plumber all trade their time for money. They bill per hour (even if it's $5,000 per hour) or per job, but they are still trading their time for money. The WISP business is nothing like this. It's actually a very unique business compared to anything else out there. It has recurring monthly income, yet the expenses are pretty much fixed. Other recurring income businesses that are similar would be insurance... however, their expenses vary from month to month depending on number of claims, size of claims, etc. Right now, if I stopped all my growth, my expenses would be exactly the same from month to month... and the income would remain the same as well. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: - Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability Marlon, Charles, your numbers are WAY off there. You can't base your numbers on the fact that you're willing to be on call 24x7, work 12 hour days 7 days / week as a function of "normal business operations" -- it simply isn't sustainable from a long term perspective Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes is sucks, but remember that we can also give ourselves time off nearly anytime we really want it. I don't miss very many of the kid's baseball games, dance recitles, field trips or anything else. Eventually, your wife WILL leave you if you keep this up (on a side note, one of the biggest reasons I've seen for small WISPs selling out is the wife factor =) The reasons I've usually seen are that people get in this for a quick buck. When that doesn't happen they burn out/bail out. But that's no different than any other industry I see. And I've seen a lot, I've been doing office equipment repair work since about 1990 or 92. I've always tried to learn from my customers, what works, why etc. Not many bail on a company that's making good money, no matter how much time it's taking. If you were to replace yourself with normal employees that work 8-5 and who make market wages, you'd probably discover that your labor costs will go up $!0-15k / month (I would argue that you probably personally do the work of 3 people in your company) Believe it or not, I do the work of less than one most of the time. It's been a bit more than that lately but only because I'm too cheap to hire help and can't afford to replace all the my POS Tranzeo AP's with MT units all at once. Once I get the network running nicer my service calls will drop off a lot. The difference at the sites that are already done has been nothing short of amazing. The rest of the time I'm screwing around with WISPA stuff or helping local orgs of some kind. I might put in a 40 to 60 hour week, but a lot of the time is non esential. Also, if I get too busy I bring a helper along on my installs. 2 guys can usually knock one out in about 1/3rd the time of one person. Not sure why it goes so much faster, but it does. By the time I hit 600 to 800 subs I'm gonna need some help. Hiring that person will suck big time because I won't have enough work for them right away. That move alone will likely cut my margin down to nearly nothing for a couple of years. After you factor in your time / opportunity cost / resources / overhead / time spent training -- you will spend an additional 2x an employee's salary during the first 6 months of employment tryi
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
One more thing. I don't agree with your definitions per se'. We all have businesses. A proprietorship is a TYPE of business. We are a proprietorship because I'm not incorporated (incorporating is over rated and expensive to do right). I'm still a business though http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_proprietorship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset marlon - Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability > Hi Marlon, > > I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on > things so everyone is on the same page > > Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define > > Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood > or profit > > Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and > codifies a specific method of proprietorship > > Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, > brand, marketing, etc > >>Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's >>also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it >>sucks, > > Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and > in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth > anything more than the depreciated value of its assets > > Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have > of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps > (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because > of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those > customers would probably go back to being on the open market) > > Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth > noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the creation > of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the > recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, > this is akin to real-estate > >>Not >>everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for every >>business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money >>they >>made was when it was just them, no employees..) But then again, >>that's >>one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and >>flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator >>dreams >>to bear fuit! > > True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has value > (be happy we're not plumbers =) > > -Charles > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability
- Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Quesiton on Funding / Financing / Capital Availability > Hi Marlon, > > I think it's appropriate to make a few definitions and distinctions on > things so everyone is on the same page > > Specifically, for purposes of making my point, I define > > Proprietorship: A commercial activity engaged in as a means of livelihood > or profit > > Business: A unique system of processes and procedures that documents and > codifies a specific method of proprietorship > > Asset: cash, inventory, equipment, infrastructure, customer contracts, > brand, marketing, etc > >>Grin. Sure it is. That's what a LOT of small business people do. It's >>also kind of common for doctors, dentists, plumbers etc Sometimes it >>sucks, > > Now, everything you stated above is just a method of proprietorship, and > in most cases, from a sale perspective, a proprietorships isn't worth > anything more than the depreciated value of its assets > > Say you were buying out the local plumber's office -- what would he have > of value? His truck? Some old tools? A customer list / brand perhaps > (but the reality of things is that customers do business with him because > of him, and if you bought him out and he moved out of town, those > customers would probably go back to being on the open market) > > Now, in comparing the WISP 'proprietorship' vs. the plumber, it's worth > noting that the WISP is somewhat unique in that it results in the creation > of an independent asset that holds onto a lot of value (e.g., the > recurring revenue and everything that goes to support it); in many ways, > this is akin to real-estate > >>Not >>everyone out there even wants to get that big (if I had a nickle for every >>business owner that's told me the most fun they had and the most money >>they >>made was when it was just them, no employees..) But then again, >>that's >>one of the really cool things about this buisness, it's big enough and >>flexible enough to allow many different business models and operator >>dreams >>to bear fuit! > > True...and you have the added benefit of building an asset that has value > (be happy we're not plumbers =) Agreed. grin One of the great things about our business is that we're NOT normally needed for continued operations. Our value comes in the creation of the system and the customer base. But if something happens to the plumber his income stops. If something happens to me, nothing happens. Almost anyone can come into my network and keep it going with a little bit of ourside consulting help. This is still a fairly unique business. I still haven't convinced the bank of that fact though :-). marlon > > -Charles > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations?
WISPA did have a group of people that were attending meetings and trying to sway policy. The time schedule has just been published and hopefully rules and definitions will be firmed up shortly. WISPA could start delivering a facts sheet, Timeline and useful resources. WISPA should get vendors together to monetize the event as part of the communications effort. Maybe the board should think about a short term position to do this where someone makes some bucks managing this and the communications / opportunities for WISPA and the Members. Daniel, please don't start conversations with Charles is 100% right, Some of us are enjoying a nice hot cup of coffee and it could be dangerous to ourselves and equipment so early in the morning ;-) Dustin -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of 3-dB Networks Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 9:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations? Charles is right 100%, and he is being as proactive as any VAR (including DR and ourselves... Charles did a WiNOG on this not to long ago) trying to figure the mess out so you can get the money (hopefully you'll spend it with us right!). Here is what I know (and I've done more research and had more conversations than I think I cared to): - No one knows where the money is going to go or who is going to get it. Some people think the States are going to get all the money, others that Fiber will get all of the money, Telco's will get it, only people that have received RUS funding in the past will get it, etc. No one has a clear idea of where the money is going, so it's hard to say what anyone can do to help you get the money except give you an idea of what the RUS process is like. - Realistically, the only (and best) thing WISPA can do is provide a forum for people to discuss what they are doing to get the money, and WISPA can help lobby the government to get the money into our hands. I wouldn't expect WISPA to provide a "grant in a box" widget :-) - Many people are arguing already that if you haven't already filed paperwork, you're not going to get any money. It's amazing how many people have already put in RUS applications to get this money, before the rules on who is going to get it has been defined! - There are a 1,000 people now that think they are going to get a million dollars from the Government to start a WISP... I'm afraid they are going to crash and burn Metricom style. So while an incumbent might be the better choice to get the money, the packages newcomers are putting together are pretty impressive. But I digress... because... - Personally, I'm going to be surprised if the WISP industry gets even 10% of the money... the sad thing being we can do much more with it than the people that probably will get it. Anyways, I wouldn't expect any reseller/distributor/trade organization to give you the secret sauce on how to get that money. Sure we are all doing research to try to help people get money, but it doesn't mean they will be right (I've seen some pretty interesting ideas on who/how people are going to get money... some that I've wanted to laugh at). So I would start looking at filling out some of the RUS paperwork, and gathering as much information as you can. In the long run, if you want the money, YOUR going to have to go get it... everyone else can help though :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of Charles Wu >Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM >To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations? > >Hi Scott, > >>What has WISPA came up with to help WISP's get in on the broadband >stimulus package? Throw me some bait? As I promised before, my >membership fees(after >tax season) are sitting here... give me something >to bite. Not being an A**, but I belonged to one place(not WISPA), but >didn't get much out of it. > >>I did receive an invitation from Double Radius to help me get in on >this. Just wanting to know if WISPA got anything going on, before I jump >on that >opportunity? One of my regular suppliers that I trust. > >>From someone who's successfully navigated this process in various >iterations, the process of putting in an application for government >funding (be it RUS/NTIA/etc) is something that's measured in inches of >thickness of paper and months (or years) of labor -- at the last ISPCON, >Donny Bell, a WISP out of Minnesota mentioned that he spent in excess of >$250k in time / effort / manpower / legal fees for his first RUS loan >application -- and was denied! > >Keep in mind too, if you take a look at the comments on the stimulus >funding, there were thousands of comments (and many from people with >deep pockets and plenty of lawyers and DC lobbying) -- the competition >for this money will be, IMO, inc
Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations?
At the end of the day, the agencies giving out the money have to give out a lot of money in a very short period of time. To achieve this they plan on dividing up the allocations across a variety of other entities for help as well as allocating large sums to individual companies. This means applications for small amounts of money just aren't going to be considered. Of course the flip side is that organizations submitting applications for larger amounts than they can actual handle are going to be denied as well. In other words, this whole process is self-selecting for large companies with resources. Now then... what do you need to be able to show to have any chance? Your application needs to be for a large amount of money say at least $25MM. Your company needs to have previously been awarded a grant for a broadband project. You need to have matching funds lined up ahead of time that cover not only the requirements of the grant, but also your overhead costs associated with ramping up to do the project. This is because you need to hire people to implement the project or it won't be "shovel ready". Once you have the above then you will be just another application worthy of consideration. If you want to get to the top of the pile then you are going to need recommendations from your PUC/PSC, and/or congressman, and/or governor. Also, should you be submitting applications to RUS that plan on utilizing 3650, remember that Adelstein was a major proponent of 3650's hybrid licensing model. Do you have a large 3650 deployment? Is it compliant with the rules? -Matt On May 25, 2009, at 9:01 AM, 3-dB Networks wrote: > Charles is right 100%, and he is being as proactive as any VAR > (including DR > and ourselves... Charles did a WiNOG on this not to long ago) trying > to > figure the mess out so you can get the money (hopefully you'll spend > it with > us right!). > > Here is what I know (and I've done more research and had more > conversations > than I think I cared to): > > - No one knows where the money is going to go or who is going to get > it. > Some people think the States are going to get all the money, others > that > Fiber will get all of the money, Telco's will get it, only people > that have > received RUS funding in the past will get it, etc. No one has a > clear idea > of where the money is going, so it's hard to say what anyone can do > to help > you get the money except give you an idea of what the RUS process is > like. > > - Realistically, the only (and best) thing WISPA can do is provide a > forum > for people to discuss what they are doing to get the money, and > WISPA can > help lobby the government to get the money into our hands. I wouldn't > expect WISPA to provide a "grant in a box" widget :-) > > - Many people are arguing already that if you haven't already filed > paperwork, you're not going to get any money. It's amazing how many > people > have already put in RUS applications to get this money, before the > rules on > who is going to get it has been defined! > > - There are a 1,000 people now that think they are going to get a > million > dollars from the Government to start a WISP... I'm afraid they are > going to > crash and burn Metricom style. So while an incumbent might be the > better > choice to get the money, the packages newcomers are putting together > are > pretty impressive. But I digress... because... > > - Personally, I'm going to be surprised if the WISP industry gets > even 10% > of the money... the sad thing being we can do much more with it than > the > people that probably will get it. > > Anyways, I wouldn't expect any reseller/distributor/trade > organization to > give you the secret sauce on how to get that money. Sure we are all > doing > research to try to help people get money, but it doesn't mean they > will be > right (I've seen some pretty interesting ideas on who/how people are > going > to get money... some that I've wanted to laugh at). So I would start > looking at filling out some of the RUS paperwork, and gathering as > much > information as you can. In the long run, if you want the money, > YOUR going > to have to go get it... everyone else can help though :-) > > Daniel White > 3-dB Networks > http://www.3dbnetworks.com > > >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >> boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Charles Wu >> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM >> To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations? >> >> Hi Scott, >> >>> What has WISPA came up with to help WISP's get in on the broadband >> stimulus package? Throw me some bait? As I promised before, my >> membership fees(after >tax season) are sitting here... give me >> something >> to bite. Not being an A**, but I belonged to one place(not WISPA), >> but >> didn't get much out of it. >> >>> I did receiv
Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations?
Charles is right 100%, and he is being as proactive as any VAR (including DR and ourselves... Charles did a WiNOG on this not to long ago) trying to figure the mess out so you can get the money (hopefully you'll spend it with us right!). Here is what I know (and I've done more research and had more conversations than I think I cared to): - No one knows where the money is going to go or who is going to get it. Some people think the States are going to get all the money, others that Fiber will get all of the money, Telco's will get it, only people that have received RUS funding in the past will get it, etc. No one has a clear idea of where the money is going, so it's hard to say what anyone can do to help you get the money except give you an idea of what the RUS process is like. - Realistically, the only (and best) thing WISPA can do is provide a forum for people to discuss what they are doing to get the money, and WISPA can help lobby the government to get the money into our hands. I wouldn't expect WISPA to provide a "grant in a box" widget :-) - Many people are arguing already that if you haven't already filed paperwork, you're not going to get any money. It's amazing how many people have already put in RUS applications to get this money, before the rules on who is going to get it has been defined! - There are a 1,000 people now that think they are going to get a million dollars from the Government to start a WISP... I'm afraid they are going to crash and burn Metricom style. So while an incumbent might be the better choice to get the money, the packages newcomers are putting together are pretty impressive. But I digress... because... - Personally, I'm going to be surprised if the WISP industry gets even 10% of the money... the sad thing being we can do much more with it than the people that probably will get it. Anyways, I wouldn't expect any reseller/distributor/trade organization to give you the secret sauce on how to get that money. Sure we are all doing research to try to help people get money, but it doesn't mean they will be right (I've seen some pretty interesting ideas on who/how people are going to get money... some that I've wanted to laugh at). So I would start looking at filling out some of the RUS paperwork, and gathering as much information as you can. In the long run, if you want the money, YOUR going to have to go get it... everyone else can help though :-) Daniel White 3-dB Networks http://www.3dbnetworks.com >-Original Message- >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >Behalf Of Charles Wu >Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 10:46 PM >To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband Stimulus Allocations? > >Hi Scott, > >>What has WISPA came up with to help WISP's get in on the broadband >stimulus package? Throw me some bait? As I promised before, my >membership fees(after >tax season) are sitting here... give me something >to bite. Not being an A**, but I belonged to one place(not WISPA), but >didn't get much out of it. > >>I did receive an invitation from Double Radius to help me get in on >this. Just wanting to know if WISPA got anything going on, before I jump >on that >opportunity? One of my regular suppliers that I trust. > >>From someone who's successfully navigated this process in various >iterations, the process of putting in an application for government >funding (be it RUS/NTIA/etc) is something that's measured in inches of >thickness of paper and months (or years) of labor -- at the last ISPCON, >Donny Bell, a WISP out of Minnesota mentioned that he spent in excess of >$250k in time / effort / manpower / legal fees for his first RUS loan >application -- and was denied! > >Keep in mind too, if you take a look at the comments on the stimulus >funding, there were thousands of comments (and many from people with >deep pockets and plenty of lawyers and DC lobbying) -- the competition >for this money will be, IMO, incredibly stiff and will require a full- >time expensive, sustained effort if you even want to have a chance to >win > >I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect $250 / year in dues to provide >you a turn-key solution for grant funding > >That said, for your information -- here's a link to the latest in BTOP >updates: http://www.recovery.gov/?q=content/program- >plan&program_id=5517#schedule > >-Charles > >-- Original Message -- >From: RickG >Reply-To: WISPA General List >Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 13:00:41 -0400 > >>I find the "secret sauce" of converting a customer a very interesting >>subject as well. For the most part nearly every WISP I have run had a >>monopoly. The ones that didnt had a niche of some kind. My first >>owner/operator venture was not good because it was in a highly >>competitive market and I could not overcome the "go with the big >>company" mentality. My customers said I gave great service but even >>they succumbed to price. Therefore
