[WISPA] Firefox add-in
The company that supports us has a in-house Admin system that works really well. It is a home-grown admin system that gives us customer tracking and all. There are links on the customer record to ping the customer radio, a hyperlink to the radio IP so that it opens a new tab in windows and allows us to login to a Tranzeo or a UBNT radio. There is also a link to allow us to winbox or putty into that customers AP. This all works great, in Microsoft Internet Explorer. It takes a .asp IE add-in to allow all the links to work. We have not been able to find such a add-in for Firefox. I am sorry I cannot give any more info than that as I am not a programmer and don't know how that all works. Any suggestions? Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Firefox add-in
Actually what is used is a IE add-in (not and .asp) that allows IE to start an executable. It is used to allow a hyperlink to start Winbox and putty. We have searched for something that will work in FireFox, but I suspect Mozilla is security conscious enough that there is no way to make it happen. So, if someone can point us to a way to get FireFox to launch a .exe, Steve will no longer be tied to IE. Steve Barnes wrote: The company that supports us has a in-house Admin system that works really well. It is a home-grown admin system that gives us customer tracking and all. There are links on the customer record to ping the customer radio, a hyperlink to the radio IP so that it opens a new tab in windows and allows us to login to a Tranzeo or a UBNT radio. There is also a link to allow us to winbox or putty into that customers AP. This all works great, in Microsoft Internet Explorer. It takes a .asp IE add-in to allow all the links to work. We have not been able to find such a add-in for Firefox. I am sorry I cannot give any more info than that as I am not a programmer and don't know how that all works. Any suggestions? Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Firefox add-in
Maybe IE Tab will work for you guys. Basically, It uses the IE engine inside of Firefox. Good for going to sites that don't work with Firefox. (like windows update) Nick Olsen Network Engineer / Customer Support (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Scott Reed scottr...@onlyinternet.net Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:45 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Firefox add-in Actually what is used is a IE add-in (not and .asp) that allows IE to start an executable. It is used to allow a hyperlink to start Winbox and putty. We have searched for something that will work in FireFox, but I suspect Mozilla is security conscious enough that there is no way to make it happen. So, if someone can point us to a way to get FireFox to launch a .exe, Steve will no longer be tied to IE. Steve Barnes wrote: The company that supports us has a in-house Admin system that works really well. It is a home-grown admin system that gives us customer tracking and all. There are links on the customer record to ping the customer radio, a hyperlink to the radio IP so that it opens a new tab in windows and allows us to login to a Tranzeo or a UBNT radio. There is also a link to allow us to winbox or putty into that customers AP. This all works great, in Microsoft Internet Explorer. It takes a .asp IE add-in to allow all the links to work. We have not been able to find such a add-in for Firefox. I am sorry I cannot give any more info than that as I am not a programmer and don't know how that all works. Any suggestions? Steve Barnes RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Short range link with DFS concerns
I will be putting up a new 5.3 GHz link in the near future. The distance is only a few thousand feet. Normally I would use radios with integrated panel antennas, but this link is near a weather radar tower. Experience has shown that even when the radar's operating frequencies are blocked out of the radio's DFS channel map, the DFS algorithm can trip due to spurious emissions from the radar transmitter. I usually get around this by using high performance dishes with a narrow beam and small sidelobes. Since this link is only a few thousand feet, 2 foot HP dishes seem like overkill. Also, aesthetics are a concern at one end of the link and a physically small antenna would be best. Is anyone aware of a high quality (Radiowaves, Andrew, etc.) dual polarity high performance parabolic for 5.3 GHz that is smaller than 2 feet? -- Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] That black magic
I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. A spectrum sweep of the property found absolutely no 2.4 signals. By in large, these rural areas are very quiet. There are no trees or obstructions in the near field or out quite a ways. However, there is a ridge almost half way between us. I am embedding an image of the path here created with alphimax.com path estimator. I have a test unit which is a 19 dB panel/radio with an AP fastened to the back. It lets me hand hold a test unit and see what it sees on a laptop. Standing on the ground on his property we got an ALMOST usable signal in a short test. He has a 35 foot TV tower next to the house on which we would install. Perhaps one would look at the path profile and common sense would dictate it won't work. However, I use knife edge diffraction successfully on a handful of installs. Besides, black magic sometimes trumps common sense. I have never used this technique where the ridge is close to mid point. On all others the ridge was closer to the user. All of them work except when tropospheric ducting enters into the equation, with one exception. I have told the users this is a 98% link and it WILL go down during those events. Earlier this winter we had a few days of ducting which caused a couple of them to fade. I saw a 15 dB fade on those. Statistically, ducting should only affect this area 20 some hours a year. The single exception was when the obstructing hill had soy beans growing on it. That particular one went down in late fall when the beans were ready for harvest. The previous 2 years the field had corn planted on it and had absolutely no issues. I think dry beans affect the signal because they are no longer row polarized and randomly scramble the signal beyond use. Once the beans were harvested, the signal came back like usual. On this path in question, I found the ridge. There are no trees, instead it is farmed. There is corn stubble on it right now. I am curious what others have found in these NLOS situations. Because the obstruction is mid path, will the signal still be there next fall as it is now? Are mid path obstructions on a long path better than obstructions closer to one end? Am I absolutely stupid for even considering this install? I went over all the physics involved and told him of my experiences. Like I said, he is motivated. I told him I wouldn't tie him into a contract, but we'd go month by month and if we found later in the year it wasn't working, we'd cut our losses. He was OK with that. Since I respect the viewpoints of many of you, bring it on! Friendly Regards, Mike Mike Gilchrist Disruptive Technologist Advanced Wireless Express P.O. Box 255 Toledo, IA 52342 Mike's http://www.tamatoledonews.com/page/category.detail/nav/5001/Local-Columns.h tml Weekly Column 239.770.6203 m...@aweiowa.com image002.jpg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
To begin with, are you sure there is a bump there? Could it be bad meter resolution? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. A spectrum sweep of the property found absolutely no 2.4 signals. By in large, these rural areas are very quiet. There are no trees or obstructions in the near field or out quite a ways. However, there is a ridge almost half way between us. I am embedding an image of the path here created with alphimax.com path estimator. I have a test unit which is a 19 dB panel/radio with an AP fastened to the back. It lets me hand hold a test unit and see what it sees on a laptop. Standing on the ground on his property we got an ALMOST usable signal in a short test. He has a 35 foot TV tower next to the house on which we would install. Perhaps one would look at the path profile and common sense would dictate it won't work. However, I use knife edge diffraction successfully on a handful of installs. Besides, black magic sometimes trumps common sense. I have never used this technique where the ridge is close to mid point. On all others the ridge was closer to the user. All of them work except when tropospheric ducting enters into the equation, with one exception. I have told the users this is a 98% link and it WILL go down during those events. Earlier this winter we had a few days of ducting which caused a couple of them to fade. I saw a 15 dB fade on those. Statistically, ducting should only affect this area 20 some hours a year. The single exception was when the obstructing hill had soy beans growing on it. That particular one went down in late fall when the beans were ready for harvest. The previous 2 years the field had corn planted on it and had absolutely no issues. I think dry beans affect the signal because they are no longer row polarized and randomly scramble the signal beyond use. Once the beans were harvested, the signal came back like usual. On this path in question, I found the ridge. There are no trees, instead it is farmed. There is corn stubble on it right now. I am curious what others have found in these NLOS situations. Because the obstruction is mid path, will the signal still be there next fall as it is now? Are mid path obstructions on a long path better than obstructions closer to one end? Am I absolutely stupid for even considering this install? I went over all the physics involved and told him of my experiences. Like I said, he is motivated. I told him I wouldn't tie him into a contract, but we'd go month by month and if we found later in the year it wasn't working, we'd cut our losses. He was OK with that. Since I respect the viewpoints of many of you, bring it on! Friendly Regards, Mike Mike Gilchrist Disruptive Technologist Advanced Wireless Express P.O. Box 255 Toledo, IA 52342 Mike's http://www.tamatoledonews.com/page/category.detail/nav/5001/Local-Columns.h tml Weekly Column 239.770.6203 m...@aweiowa.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Motorola telemarketing call
I guess motorola is calling wisps about there new 3650 gear which the representative said will be available in the next few weeks. Sent from my iPhone WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
I have a bright beacon I can turn on at the top of this tower. On a clear night recently, I turned it on. Even a ways up a corn crib he could NOT see the light. I think the terrain data is accurate. The alphimax site, once you create the path lets you go into Google Earth and see the hill. This part of the world doesn't have high resolution imagery archived yet, but I CAN see the ridge when I follow along the path. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic To begin with, are you sure there is a bump there? Could it be bad meter resolution? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. A spectrum sweep of the property found absolutely no 2.4 signals. By in large, these rural areas are very quiet. There are no trees or obstructions in the near field or out quite a ways. However, there is a ridge almost half way between us. I am embedding an image of the path here created with alphimax.com path estimator. I have a test unit which is a 19 dB panel/radio with an AP fastened to the back. It lets me hand hold a test unit and see what it sees on a laptop. Standing on the ground on his property we got an ALMOST usable signal in a short test. He has a 35 foot TV tower next to the house on which we would install. Perhaps one would look at the path profile and common sense would dictate it won't work. However, I use knife edge diffraction successfully on a handful of installs. Besides, black magic sometimes trumps common sense. I have never used this technique where the ridge is close to mid point. On all others the ridge was closer to the user. All of them work except when tropospheric ducting enters into the equation, with one exception. I have told the users this is a 98% link and it WILL go down during those events. Earlier this winter we had a few days of ducting which caused a couple of them to fade. I saw a 15 dB fade on those. Statistically, ducting should only affect this area 20 some hours a year. The single exception was when the obstructing hill had soy beans growing on it. That particular one went down in late fall when the beans were ready for harvest. The previous 2 years the field had corn planted on it and had absolutely no issues. I think dry beans affect the signal because they are no longer row polarized and randomly scramble the signal beyond use. Once the beans were harvested, the signal came back like usual. On this path in question, I found the ridge. There are no trees, instead it is farmed. There is corn stubble on it right now. I am curious what others have found in these NLOS situations. Because the obstruction is mid path, will the signal still be there next fall as it is now? Are mid path obstructions on a long path better than obstructions closer to one end? Am I absolutely stupid for even considering this install? I went over all the physics involved and told him of my experiences. Like I said, he is motivated. I told him I wouldn't tie him into a contract, but we'd go month by month and if we found later in the year it wasn't working, we'd cut our losses. He was OK with that. Since I respect the viewpoints of many of you, bring it on! Friendly Regards, Mike Mike Gilchrist Disruptive Technologist Advanced Wireless Express P.O. Box 255 Toledo, IA 52342 Mike's http://www.tamatoledonews.com/page/category.detail/nav/5001/Local-Columns.h tml Weekly Column 239.770.6203 m...@aweiowa.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
That profile suggests at 31 feet the customer should see the light (the black LOS line). Was that where they looked for the light, or lower? I would have to guess the corn crib was not nearly 31 feet. I think the whole US has 3m and 10m data - http://www.cplus.org/rmw/dataen.html Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I have a bright beacon I can turn on at the top of this tower. On a clear night recently, I turned it on. Even a ways up a corn crib he could NOT see the light. I think the terrain data is accurate. The alphimax site, once you create the path lets you go into Google Earth and see the hill. This part of the world doesn't have high resolution imagery archived yet, but I CAN see the ridge when I follow along the path. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic To begin with, are you sure there is a bump there? Could it be bad meter resolution? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. A spectrum sweep of the property found absolutely no 2.4 signals. By in large, these rural areas are very quiet. There are no trees or obstructions in the near field or out quite a ways. However, there is a ridge almost half way between us. I am embedding an image of the path here created with alphimax.com path estimator. I have a test unit which is a 19 dB panel/radio with an AP fastened to the back. It lets me hand hold a test unit and see what it sees on a laptop. Standing on the ground on his property we got an ALMOST usable signal in a short test. He has a 35 foot TV tower next to the house on which we would install. Perhaps one would look at the path profile and common sense would dictate it won't work. However, I use knife edge diffraction successfully on a handful of installs. Besides, black magic sometimes trumps common sense. I have never used this technique where the ridge is close to mid point. On all others the ridge was closer to the user. All of them work except when tropospheric ducting enters into the equation, with one exception. I have told the users this is a 98% link and it WILL go down during those events. Earlier this winter we had a few days of ducting which caused a couple of them to fade. I saw a 15 dB fade on those. Statistically, ducting should only affect this area 20 some hours a year. The single exception was when the obstructing hill had soy beans growing on it. That particular one went down in late fall when the beans were ready for harvest. The previous 2 years the field had corn planted on it and had absolutely no issues. I think dry beans affect the signal because they are no longer row polarized and randomly scramble the signal beyond use. Once the beans were harvested, the signal came back like usual. On this path in question, I found the ridge. There are no trees, instead it is farmed. There is corn stubble on it right now. I am curious what others have found in these NLOS situations. Because the obstruction is mid path, will the signal still be there next fall as it is now? Are mid path obstructions on a long path better than obstructions closer to one end? Am I absolutely stupid for even considering this install? I went over all the physics involved and told him of my experiences. Like I said, he is motivated. I told him I wouldn't tie him into a contract, but we'd go month by month and if we found later in the year it wasn't working, we'd cut our losses. He was OK with that. Since I respect the viewpoints of many of you, bring it on! Friendly Regards, Mike Mike Gilchrist Disruptive Technologist Advanced Wireless Express P.O. Box 255 Toledo, IA 52342 Mike's http://www.tamatoledonews.com/page/category.detail/nav/5001/Local-Columns.h tml Weekly Column 239.770.6203 m...@aweiowa.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
Well, before he invests in an install, have him rent a lift truck or something to see what he can see. I have a few links that have this type of knife edge defraction. I run them using 802.11 gear (Mtik/Tranzeo). When I allowed full on access to all the speed I could provide, complaints came from these clients. When I throttled them down to256/768/1M connections.. the complaints stopped and things were more normalized to these clients. ryan On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:05 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I have a bright beacon I can turn on at the top of this tower. On a clear night recently, I turned it on. Even a ways up a corn crib he could NOT see the light. I think the terrain data is accurate. The alphimax site, once you create the path lets you go into Google Earth and see the hill. This part of the world doesn't have high resolution imagery archived yet, but I CAN see the ridge when I follow along the path. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic To begin with, are you sure there is a bump there? Could it be bad meter resolution? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. A spectrum sweep of the property found absolutely no 2.4 signals. By in large, these rural areas are very quiet. There are no trees or obstructions in the near field or out quite a ways. However, there is a ridge almost half way between us. I am embedding an image of the path here created with alphimax.com path estimator. I have a test unit which is a 19 dB panel/radio with an AP fastened to the back. It lets me hand hold a test unit and see what it sees on a laptop. Standing on the ground on his property we got an ALMOST usable signal in a short test. He has a 35 foot TV tower next to the house on which we would install. Perhaps one would look at the path profile and common sense would dictate it won't work. However, I use knife edge diffraction successfully on a handful of installs. Besides, black magic sometimes trumps common sense. I have never used this technique where the ridge is close to mid point. On all others the ridge was closer to the user. All of them work except when tropospheric ducting enters into the equation, with one exception. I have told the users this is a 98% link and it WILL go down during those events. Earlier this winter we had a few days of ducting which caused a couple of them to fade. I saw a 15 dB fade on those. Statistically, ducting should only affect this area 20 some hours a year. The single exception was when the obstructing hill had soy beans growing on it. That particular one went down in late fall when the beans were ready for harvest. The previous 2 years the field had corn planted on it and had absolutely no issues. I think dry beans affect the signal because they are no longer row polarized and randomly scramble the signal beyond use. Once the beans were harvested, the signal came back like usual. On this path in question, I found the ridge. There are no trees, instead it is farmed. There is corn stubble on it right now. I am curious what others have found in these NLOS situations. Because the obstruction is mid path, will the signal still be there next fall as it is now? Are mid path obstructions on a long path better than obstructions closer to one end? Am I absolutely stupid for even considering this install? I went over all the physics involved and told him of my experiences. Like I said, he is motivated. I told him I wouldn't tie him into a contract, but we'd go month by month and if we found later in the year it wasn't working, we'd cut our losses. He was OK with that. Since I respect the viewpoints of many of you, bring it on! Friendly Regards, Mike Mike Gilchrist Disruptive Technologist Advanced Wireless Express P.O. Box 255 Toledo, IA 52342 Mike's http://www.tamatoledonews.com/page/category.detail/nav/5001/Local-Columns.h tml Weekly Column 239.770.6203 m...@aweiowa.com WISPA Wants You! Join today!
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
The ladder on the outside of the corn crib is probably a little less than 20 feet. I have seen the beacon close to 25 miles away. It is a bright amber rotating beacon. Yes at 31 foot, the LOS should be there, but more than half of the Fresnel zone will be impeded. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic That profile suggests at 31 feet the customer should see the light (the black LOS line). Was that where they looked for the light, or lower? I would have to guess the corn crib was not nearly 31 feet. I think the whole US has 3m and 10m data - http://www.cplus.org/rmw/dataen.html Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I have a bright beacon I can turn on at the top of this tower. On a clear night recently, I turned it on. Even a ways up a corn crib he could NOT see the light. I think the terrain data is accurate. The alphimax site, once you create the path lets you go into Google Earth and see the hill. This part of the world doesn't have high resolution imagery archived yet, but I CAN see the ridge when I follow along the path. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic To begin with, are you sure there is a bump there? Could it be bad meter resolution? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. A spectrum sweep of the property found absolutely no 2.4 signals. By in large, these rural areas are very quiet. There are no trees or obstructions in the near field or out quite a ways. However, there is a ridge almost half way between us. I am embedding an image of the path here created with alphimax.com path estimator. I have a test unit which is a 19 dB panel/radio with an AP fastened to the back. It lets me hand hold a test unit and see what it sees on a laptop. Standing on the ground on his property we got an ALMOST usable signal in a short test. He has a 35 foot TV tower next to the house on which we would install. Perhaps one would look at the path profile and common sense would dictate it won't work. However, I use knife edge diffraction successfully on a handful of installs. Besides, black magic sometimes trumps common sense. I have never used this technique where the ridge is close to mid point. On all others the ridge was closer to the user. All of them work except when tropospheric ducting enters into the equation, with one exception. I have told the users this is a 98% link and it WILL go down during those events. Earlier this winter we had a few days of ducting which caused a couple of them to fade. I saw a 15 dB fade on those. Statistically, ducting should only affect this area 20 some hours a year. The single exception was when the obstructing hill had soy beans growing on it. That particular one went down in late fall when the beans were ready for harvest. The previous 2 years the field had corn planted on it and had absolutely no issues. I think dry beans affect the signal because they are no longer row polarized and randomly scramble the signal beyond use. Once the beans were harvested, the signal came back like usual. On this path in question, I found the ridge. There are no trees, instead it is farmed. There is corn stubble on it right now. I am curious what others have found in these NLOS situations. Because the obstruction is mid path, will the signal still be there next fall as it is now? Are mid path obstructions on a long path better than obstructions closer to one end? Am I absolutely stupid for even considering this install? I went over all the physics involved and told him of my experiences. Like I said, he is motivated. I told him I wouldn't tie him into a contract, but we'd go month by month and if we found later in the year it wasn't working, we'd cut our losses. He was OK with that. Since I respect the viewpoints of many of you, bring it on!
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 08:55:31AM -0600, Mike wrote: I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. Business reality for me is not to do it if tech support and tinkering costs more than it's worth, and that's a known possibility ahead of time. I'd suggest an intermediate repeater location that will work for him (and others to make it worthwhile). If the guy is motivated, perhaps he can find a spot for you to put a pole or tower or work with a neighbor on your behalf. -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
I see. So at ~18 feet there is no light but at 31 you see the light, suggesting that hill is actually there and as you said, Fresnel zone is blocked. You should expect the link to be troublesome. I agree with Jason, too. Just because you can does not mean you should. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:19 AM, jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 08:55:31AM -0600, Mike wrote: I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. Business reality for me is not to do it if tech support and tinkering costs more than it's worth, and that's a known possibility ahead of time. I'd suggest an intermediate repeater location that will work for him (and others to make it worthwhile). If the guy is motivated, perhaps he can find a spot for you to put a pole or tower or work with a neighbor on your behalf. -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ | Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Maine http://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
Wouldn't it cost more to rent a lift truck than do an install? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:15 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic Well, before he invests in an install, have him rent a lift truck or something to see what he can see. I have a few links that have this type of knife edge defraction. I run them using 802.11 gear (Mtik/Tranzeo). When I allowed full on access to all the speed I could provide, complaints came from these clients. When I throttled them down to256/768/1M connections.. the complaints stopped and things were more normalized to these clients. ryan On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:05 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I have a bright beacon I can turn on at the top of this tower. On a clear night recently, I turned it on. Even a ways up a corn crib he could NOT see the light. I think the terrain data is accurate. The alphimax site, once you create the path lets you go into Google Earth and see the hill. This part of the world doesn't have high resolution imagery archived yet, but I CAN see the ridge when I follow along the path. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic To begin with, are you sure there is a bump there? Could it be bad meter resolution? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. A spectrum sweep of the property found absolutely no 2.4 signals. By in large, these rural areas are very quiet. There are no trees or obstructions in the near field or out quite a ways. However, there is a ridge almost half way between us. I am embedding an image of the path here created with alphimax.com path estimator. I have a test unit which is a 19 dB panel/radio with an AP fastened to the back. It lets me hand hold a test unit and see what it sees on a laptop. Standing on the ground on his property we got an ALMOST usable signal in a short test. He has a 35 foot TV tower next to the house on which we would install. Perhaps one would look at the path profile and common sense would dictate it won't work. However, I use knife edge diffraction successfully on a handful of installs. Besides, black magic sometimes trumps common sense. I have never used this technique where the ridge is close to mid point. On all others the ridge was closer to the user. All of them work except when tropospheric ducting enters into the equation, with one exception. I have told the users this is a 98% link and it WILL go down during those events. Earlier this winter we had a few days of ducting which caused a couple of them to fade. I saw a 15 dB fade on those. Statistically, ducting should only affect this area 20 some hours a year. The single exception was when the obstructing hill had soy beans growing on it. That particular one went down in late fall when the beans were ready for harvest. The previous 2 years the field had corn planted on it and had absolutely no issues. I think dry beans affect the signal because they are no longer row polarized and randomly scramble the signal beyond use. Once the beans were harvested, the signal came back like usual. On this path in question, I found the ridge. There are no trees, instead it is farmed. There is corn stubble on it right now. I am curious what others have found in these NLOS situations. Because the obstruction is mid path, will the signal still be there next fall as it is now? Are mid path obstructions on a long path better than obstructions closer to one end? Am I absolutely stupid for even considering this install? I went over all the physics involved and told him of my experiences. Like I said, he is motivated. I told him I wouldn't tie him into a contract, but we'd go month by month and if we found later in the year it wasn't working, we'd cut our losses. He was OK with that. Since I respect the viewpoints of many of you, bring it on! Friendly Regards, Mike Mike
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
We just tore ours down, but our corn crib was 30 - 40 feet tall. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:11 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic That profile suggests at 31 feet the customer should see the light (the black LOS line). Was that where they looked for the light, or lower? I would have to guess the corn crib was not nearly 31 feet. I think the whole US has 3m and 10m data - http://www.cplus.org/rmw/dataen.html Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I have a bright beacon I can turn on at the top of this tower. On a clear night recently, I turned it on. Even a ways up a corn crib he could NOT see the light. I think the terrain data is accurate. The alphimax site, once you create the path lets you go into Google Earth and see the hill. This part of the world doesn't have high resolution imagery archived yet, but I CAN see the ridge when I follow along the path. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:01 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic To begin with, are you sure there is a bump there? Could it be bad meter resolution? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. A spectrum sweep of the property found absolutely no 2.4 signals. By in large, these rural areas are very quiet. There are no trees or obstructions in the near field or out quite a ways. However, there is a ridge almost half way between us. I am embedding an image of the path here created with alphimax.com path estimator. I have a test unit which is a 19 dB panel/radio with an AP fastened to the back. It lets me hand hold a test unit and see what it sees on a laptop. Standing on the ground on his property we got an ALMOST usable signal in a short test. He has a 35 foot TV tower next to the house on which we would install. Perhaps one would look at the path profile and common sense would dictate it won't work. However, I use knife edge diffraction successfully on a handful of installs. Besides, black magic sometimes trumps common sense. I have never used this technique where the ridge is close to mid point. On all others the ridge was closer to the user. All of them work except when tropospheric ducting enters into the equation, with one exception. I have told the users this is a 98% link and it WILL go down during those events. Earlier this winter we had a few days of ducting which caused a couple of them to fade. I saw a 15 dB fade on those. Statistically, ducting should only affect this area 20 some hours a year. The single exception was when the obstructing hill had soy beans growing on it. That particular one went down in late fall when the beans were ready for harvest. The previous 2 years the field had corn planted on it and had absolutely no issues. I think dry beans affect the signal because they are no longer row polarized and randomly scramble the signal beyond use. Once the beans were harvested, the signal came back like usual. On this path in question, I found the ridge. There are no trees, instead it is farmed. There is corn stubble on it right now. I am curious what others have found in these NLOS situations. Because the obstruction is mid path, will the signal still be there next fall as it is now? Are mid path obstructions on a long path better than obstructions closer to one end? Am I absolutely stupid for even considering this install? I went over all the physics involved and told him of my experiences. Like I said, he is motivated. I told him I wouldn't tie him into a contract, but we'd go month by month and if we found later in the year it wasn't working, we'd cut our losses. He was OK with that. Since I respect the viewpoints of many of you, bring it on! Friendly Regards, Mike Mike Gilchrist Disruptive Technologist
Re: [WISPA] [WISPA Members] Form 477 Revisited: Not as bad as it looks
That is good information to know and it's good to know the independent WISP's did not cause the huge drop. What this does illustrate though is that as reported, the WISP industry is still very small even when compared to satellite which is almost double in size. Hopefully with the push to get more WISP's to report and with the tools being made available that make the task easier, the fixed wireless reported number of customers will exceed the satellite providers. If the satellite industry got a special NOFA and stimulus funding for CPE devices, and if WISP's show more customers than they do, it would make a more compelling case to get the government to recognize fixed wireless as an important contributor to the broadband market. This could help make better arguments for our FCC filings and/or spectrum requests. Brian -Original Message- From: members-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:members-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Stephen Coran Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:26 AM To: memb...@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA Members] Form 477 Revisited: Not as bad as it looks I talked today to the Clearwire lawyer who filed their Form 477 reports. As I had thought might be true, in the 2H 2008 report for which the results were recently released, Clearwire re-classified its subscribers as mobile where before they had been listed as fixed wireless. It was explained to me that the new form for 2H 2008 put portable uses in the mobile category whereas before Clearwire had listed its subs as fixed wireless. The lawyer was unsure how many subs Clearwire claimed, but I am guessing it explains a large portion of the loss of fixed wireless subs. Of course, this does not alleviate the challenges associated with preparing and filing the Form 477s nor does it excuse non-compliance, but it does explain the situation. Stephen E. Coran Rini Coran, PC 1140 19th Street, NW, Suite 600 Washington, D.C. 20036 202.463.4310 - voice 202.669.3288 - cell 202.296.2014 - fax sco...@rinicoran.com - e-mail www.rinicoran.com www.telecommunicationslaw.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by returning it to the sender and deleting or destroying the e-mail and any attachments without retaining any copies. Thank you for your cooperation. IRS CIRCULAR 230 DISCLOSURE: To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, we inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any matter addressed herein. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
If he is really motivated he will help with $$ for the repeater. Anybody else who will benefit? They might too. Or raise your install cost to a few to cover the solar. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:47 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic Columbus was a murderer. Neil Armstrong was going to the moon. Not giving a farmer access to a global network to check weather, stocks and naughty pictures. Edmund Hillary is nuts. I would definitely start by making sure you have LOS at 31 feet. We've established you can not at ~18, but may at 31. Maybe he's looking in the wrong spot and doesn't know what he's looking for and in reality, you can see the light at 18 feet. I'd definitely get these figures before proceeding. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Josh said I agree with Jason, too. Just because you can does not mean you should. Columbus, or Neil Armstrong, or Edmund Hillary never said that! :-) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
I think Mike said that no one in miles would be able to get signal either, due to topography. That said, it sounds like a hell of a market to break into, once he solves how to skirt the topographical problems (tower on the hill, taller tower, etc.). - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Chuck Profito cprof...@cv-access.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:55 AM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic If he is really motivated he will help with $$ for the repeater. Anybody else who will benefit? They might too. Or raise your install cost to a few to cover the solar. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:47 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic Columbus was a murderer. Neil Armstrong was going to the moon. Not giving a farmer access to a global network to check weather, stocks and naughty pictures. Edmund Hillary is nuts. I would definitely start by making sure you have LOS at 31 feet. We've established you can not at ~18, but may at 31. Maybe he's looking in the wrong spot and doesn't know what he's looking for and in reality, you can see the light at 18 feet. I'd definitely get these figures before proceeding. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Mike m...@aweiowa.com wrote: Josh said I agree with Jason, too. Just because you can does not mean you should. Columbus, or Neil Armstrong, or Edmund Hillary never said that! :-) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] new FCC report out
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-296442A1.pdf * 35% percent of americans unserved * We need to tackle the challenge of connecting 93 million Americans to our broadband future, said FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski in a statement timed with the release of the survey. In the 21st century, a digital divide is an opportunity divide. * 29% stated they received service from a fixed wireless provider ** Notwithstanding the possible confusion reflected in the survey responses, it seems likely that the vast majority of home broadband access is wireline. In fact, estimates place wireless home broadband access at 2 percent of homes—that would include fixed wireless or satellite service. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] new FCC report out
29% from fixed wireless. Well, that sure reveals the disconnect between the output data re form 477 filings, though I am much more inclined to weight the end customer surveys than 477 filing numbers (which we all know are way under reported). Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:38 AM To: WISPA List General Subject: [WISPA] new FCC report out http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-296442A1.pdf * 35% percent of americans unserved * We need to tackle the challenge of connecting 93 million Americans to our broadband future, said FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski in a statement timed with the release of the survey. In the 21st century, a digital divide is an opportunity divide. * 29% stated they received service from a fixed wireless provider ** Notwithstanding the possible confusion reflected in the survey responses, it seems likely that the vast majority of home broadband access is wireline. In fact, estimates place wireless home broadband access at 2 percent of homes-that would include fixed wireless or satellite service. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] new FCC report out
You beat me to it. LOL http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2360263,00.asp Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com On Feb 23, 2010, at 1:38 PM, Matt Liotta wrote: http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-296442A1.pdf * 35% percent of americans unserved * We need to tackle the challenge of connecting 93 million Americans to our broadband future, said FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski in a statement timed with the release of the survey. In the 21st century, a digital divide is an opportunity divide. * 29% stated they received service from a fixed wireless provider ** Notwithstanding the possible confusion reflected in the survey responses, it seems likely that the vast majority of home broadband access is wireline. In fact, estimates place wireless home broadband access at 2 percent of homes—that would include fixed wireless or satellite service. -Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] new FCC report out
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:56, Patrick Leary ple...@apertonet.com wrote: 29% from fixed wireless. Well, that sure reveals the disconnect between the output data re form 477 filings, though I am much more inclined to weight the end customer surveys than 477 filing numbers (which we all know are way under reported). I find that number VERY dubious, because of things like this (from that report, page 14): It is likely that a significant number of consumers do not know the details of their home Internet connections. Some, for instance, may confuse a wireless home network working off wireline broadband with a “fixed wireless provider.” Given the opportunity to pick more than one category, in conjunction with uncertainty over how they connect to the internet at home, some respondents inaccurately chose more than one category of connection type. For all we know, most of these folks think that since cousin Jed fixed 'em up a wireless router, that's fixed wireless. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
Mike, Interesting you mentioned soy beans. I have a customer (900-WaveRider) who was installed for 5 yrs next to a corn field. The crop was replaced with soy beans this past year and a month before harvest, as the beans dried out, we started having signal fluctuation issues. We raised the antenna 10 ft and the problem went away. It was their first issue in 5 yrs. Dave Mike wrote: I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. A spectrum sweep of the property found absolutely no 2.4 signals. By in large, these rural areas are very quiet. There are no trees or obstructions in the near field or out quite a ways. However, there is a ridge almost half way between us. I am embedding an image of the path here created with alphimax.com path estimator. I have a test unit which is a 19 dB panel/radio with an AP fastened to the back. It lets me hand hold a test unit and see what it sees on a laptop. Standing on the ground on his property we got an ALMOST usable signal in a short test. He has a 35 foot TV tower next to the house on which we would install. Perhaps one would look at the path profile and common sense would dictate it won't work. However, I use knife edge diffraction successfully on a handful of installs. Besides, black magic sometimes trumps common sense. I have never used this technique where the ridge is close to mid point. On all others the ridge was closer to the user. All of them work except when tropospheric ducting enters into the equation, with one exception. I have told the users this is a 98% link and it WILL go down during those events. Earlier this winter we had a few days of ducting which caused a couple of them to fade. I saw a 15 dB fade on those. Statistically, ducting should only affect this area 20 some hours a year. The single exception was when the obstructing hill had soy beans growing on it. That particular one went down in late fall when the beans were ready for harvest. The previous 2 years the field had corn planted on it and had absolutely no issues. I think dry beans affect the signal because they are no longer row polarized and randomly scramble the signal beyond use. Once the beans were harvested, the signal came back like usual. On this path in question, I found the ridge. There are no trees, instead it is farmed. There is corn stubble on it right now. I am curious what others have found in these NLOS situations. Because the obstruction is mid path, will the signal still be there next fall as it is now? Are mid path obstructions on a long path better than obstructions closer to one end? Am I absolutely stupid for even considering this install? I went over all the physics involved and told him of my experiences. Like I said, he is motivated. I told him I wouldn't tie him into a contract, but we'd go month by month and if we found later in the year it wasn't working, we'd cut our losses. He was OK with that. Since I respect the viewpoints of many of you, bring it on! Friendly Regards, Mike Mike Gilchrist Disruptive Technologist Advanced Wireless Express P.O. Box 255 Toledo, IA 52342 Mike's http://www.tamatoledonews.com/page/category.detail/nav/5001/Local-Columns.h tml Weekly Column 239.770.6203 m...@aweiowa.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Motorola telemarketing call
It is currently in Beta. I would expect it to start shipping around the first part of April. -Eric On 2/23/2010 9:03 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I guess motorola is calling wisps about there new 3650 gear which the representative said will be available in the next few weeks. Sent from my iPhone WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Motorola telemarketing call
Yeah, I got their @#$% spam call this morning, as well. The caller was nice enough, but the questions, gads. They wanted to know if I was interested in WiMax. My exact response was Don't you think that's a vague question?. Really, the call was a rather generic cold calling for leads type of thing. Every freaking time I add or change a location, I get spammed nigh unto death by people all over 3.65 ghz. I wonder if putting the following statement into this list will work. I dunno but here goes STOP CALLING, MAILING, OR SPAMMING ME! There, wow. I feel so... so... Expressed... hehehehe, ok, so I don't, but never mind. Back to life on earth. -- From: Eric Muehleisen ericm...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:27 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Motorola telemarketing call It is currently in Beta. I would expect it to start shipping around the first part of April. -Eric On 2/23/2010 9:03 AM, Jeremie Chism wrote: I guess motorola is calling wisps about there new 3650 gear which the representative said will be available in the next few weeks. Sent from my iPhone WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
900 MHz doesn't work well around here. The farmers have deployed GPS navigation systems using those frequencies. Was the bean path you had NLOS? I'm curious what effects it had. I have seen a four foot change in elevation work like black magic. I think the beans get to blowing in the breeze and because there are hundreds of thousands of little hard points that randomly diffract the signal it fades. I saw this on a knife edge diffraction path as well as a distant, path where the CPE had to be mounted low to clear large branches of an oak tree 20 feet overhead. The next field over was a bean field one year and caused fits for a couple weeks, I believe because of the low angle. Is it that OFDM can survive in a multipath environment until the individually randomized signals number in the thousands? Mike -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of David Hulsebus Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic Mike, Interesting you mentioned soy beans. I have a customer (900-WaveRider) who was installed for 5 yrs next to a corn field. The crop was replaced with soy beans this past year and a month before harvest, as the beans dried out, we started having signal fluctuation issues. We raised the antenna 10 ft and the problem went away. It was their first issue in 5 yrs. Dave Mike wrote: I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. A spectrum sweep of the property found absolutely no 2.4 signals. By in large, these rural areas are very quiet. There are no trees or obstructions in the near field or out quite a ways. However, there is a ridge almost half way between us. I am embedding an image of the path here created with alphimax.com path estimator. I have a test unit which is a 19 dB panel/radio with an AP fastened to the back. It lets me hand hold a test unit and see what it sees on a laptop. Standing on the ground on his property we got an ALMOST usable signal in a short test. He has a 35 foot TV tower next to the house on which we would install. Perhaps one would look at the path profile and common sense would dictate it won't work. However, I use knife edge diffraction successfully on a handful of installs. Besides, black magic sometimes trumps common sense. I have never used this technique where the ridge is close to mid point. On all others the ridge was closer to the user. All of them work except when tropospheric ducting enters into the equation, with one exception. I have told the users this is a 98% link and it WILL go down during those events. Earlier this winter we had a few days of ducting which caused a couple of them to fade. I saw a 15 dB fade on those. Statistically, ducting should only affect this area 20 some hours a year. The single exception was when the obstructing hill had soy beans growing on it. That particular one went down in late fall when the beans were ready for harvest. The previous 2 years the field had corn planted on it and had absolutely no issues. I think dry beans affect the signal because they are no longer row polarized and randomly scramble the signal beyond use. Once the beans were harvested, the signal came back like usual. On this path in question, I found the ridge. There are no trees, instead it is farmed. There is corn stubble on it right now. I am curious what others have found in these NLOS situations. Because the obstruction is mid path, will the signal still be there next fall as it is now? Are mid path obstructions on a long path better than obstructions closer to one end? Am I absolutely stupid for even considering this install? I went over all the physics involved and told him of my experiences. Like I said, he is motivated. I told him I wouldn't tie him into a contract, but we'd go month by month and if we found later in the year it wasn't working, we'd cut our losses. He was OK with that. Since I respect the viewpoints of many of you, bring it on! Friendly Regards, Mike Mike Gilchrist Disruptive Technologist Advanced Wireless Express P.O. Box 255 Toledo, IA 52342 Mike's http://www.tamatoledonews.com/page/category.detail/nav/5001/Local-Columns.h tml Weekly Column 239.770.6203 m...@aweiowa.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
[WISPA] Route optimization and scheduling software
Looking for software to efficiently schedule/route surveys, maintenance, installations, special projects etc. based upon proximity and urgency. Most of what I've seen is geared for larger firms - thanks in advance. `S WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Route optimization and scheduling software
Travis' GPS thing sounds like what you want. Haven't seen it but from what I recall it's ideal for your request. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:06 PM, Scott Vander Dussen sc...@velociter.net wrote: Looking for software to efficiently schedule/route surveys, maintenance, installations, special projects etc. based upon proximity and urgency. Most of what I've seen is geared for larger firms - thanks in advance. `S WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
If he is adamant, I would do an analysis with something like radio mobile and keep adding height to his end to get the best result of the analysis. Then, depending on how high he needs to go, suggest buying a tower that is at that height. A single SU would not need more than rg25 with guides since you have already suggested over 20'. IF he had to pay full price for Sat, he would be near the $500 range just for install and Equip. We all know it is junk! Last I checked here rg25 was around $100/sec. At that he could go at least 40 - 50 ft and maybe work? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 09:39:46 -0600 Short squat corn crib. It has an internal ladder with no outside access, and another ladder on the outside going part way up. I have NOT verified the light is visible at 31 feet. Maybe I should have him climb it on a clear night to verify he can indeed see the light? I know I would be using knife edge diffraction with OFDM modulation. This is a horizontally polarized sector operating on a fractional channel. His part of the county, which is northeast of me lies on a Paleozoic plateau; it is flat for miles. Any neighboring properties would have the same issues. My operations are centered in south county where we have what are referred to as the Bohemian Alps. My property is one of the highest points in the county, and the tower is 180' above that. Right now, my most distant customer is 11 miles and has no issues. This one is almost 16 miles. The farthest path where I *KNOW* I'm using knife edge diffraction is 6.8 miles and has absolutely no issues EXCEPT during those ducting events. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
First off, with a LEGAL base station AP running 36dB (I used 24db radio with 12dB sector as an example) you should see a -73 at 16 miles. Personally, to help avoid interference, I use 30dB or so ap power and run 24dB grids at anything past 8 miles. Things run pretty well this way. Multipath is a really hard thing to figure out some times. Had one today, high tension power lines about half way. Good signals but 80 to 90% retrans rates. I finally found a channel that worked well and got 3 megs both ways to the customer, but everything else I tried only gave me half a meg down and less up most of the time. I gave the customer a 2 week trial before they have to pay for the install. We'll see if it keeps running or not. I don't have high hopes. I'll try moving the antenna up or down before I pull it out and see if I can find a better spot. In the end, some just never do work right. marlon - Original Message - From: Mike m...@aweiowa.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] That black magic I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. A spectrum sweep of the property found absolutely no 2.4 signals. By in large, these rural areas are very quiet. There are no trees or obstructions in the near field or out quite a ways. However, there is a ridge almost half way between us. I am embedding an image of the path here created with alphimax.com path estimator. I have a test unit which is a 19 dB panel/radio with an AP fastened to the back. It lets me hand hold a test unit and see what it sees on a laptop. Standing on the ground on his property we got an ALMOST usable signal in a short test. He has a 35 foot TV tower next to the house on which we would install. Perhaps one would look at the path profile and common sense would dictate it won't work. However, I use knife edge diffraction successfully on a handful of installs. Besides, black magic sometimes trumps common sense. I have never used this technique where the ridge is close to mid point. On all others the ridge was closer to the user. All of them work except when tropospheric ducting enters into the equation, with one exception. I have told the users this is a 98% link and it WILL go down during those events. Earlier this winter we had a few days of ducting which caused a couple of them to fade. I saw a 15 dB fade on those. Statistically, ducting should only affect this area 20 some hours a year. The single exception was when the obstructing hill had soy beans growing on it. That particular one went down in late fall when the beans were ready for harvest. The previous 2 years the field had corn planted on it and had absolutely no issues. I think dry beans affect the signal because they are no longer row polarized and randomly scramble the signal beyond use. Once the beans were harvested, the signal came back like usual. On this path in question, I found the ridge. There are no trees, instead it is farmed. There is corn stubble on it right now. I am curious what others have found in these NLOS situations. Because the obstruction is mid path, will the signal still be there next fall as it is now? Are mid path obstructions on a long path better than obstructions closer to one end? Am I absolutely stupid for even considering this install? I went over all the physics involved and told him of my experiences. Like I said, he is motivated. I told him I wouldn't tie him into a contract, but we'd go month by month and if we found later in the year it wasn't working, we'd cut our losses. He was OK with that. Since I respect the viewpoints of many of you, bring it on! Friendly Regards, Mike Mike Gilchrist Disruptive Technologist Advanced Wireless Express P.O. Box 255 Toledo, IA 52342 Mike's http://www.tamatoledonews.com/page/category.detail/nav/5001/Local-Columns.h tml Weekly Column 239.770.6203 m...@aweiowa.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
[WISPA] Clear
In looking at Clear's web site, they have a green for areas that are covered now and a dark grey for future coverage. Does anyone know how quickly they expect to fill that coverage? How quickly they'll expand beyond their future coverage? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] That black magic
Good point. We do a lot of those these days. marlon - Original Message - From: jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] That black magic On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 08:55:31AM -0600, Mike wrote: I need to do a reality check with those of you familiar with knife edge diffraction as a propagation medium. First, I should paint the scene: I have a corporate farmer almost 16 miles away who is motivated. His options are satellite, dialup he currently uses, or us. Business reality for me is not to do it if tech support and tinkering costs more than it's worth, and that's a known possibility ahead of time. I'd suggest an intermediate repeater location that will work for him (and others to make it worthwhile). If the guy is motivated, perhaps he can find a spot for you to put a pole or tower or work with a neighbor on your behalf. -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Clear
I haven't seen their site, but I know they've been sniffing around Colorado Springs quite a bit the last year. I think they're getting ready to make a move. On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:19 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: In looking at Clear's web site, they have a green for areas that are covered now and a dark grey for future coverage. Does anyone know how quickly they expect to fill that coverage? How quickly they'll expand beyond their future coverage? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] We now have an idea of how big the WISP industry is........
I had a chance to update the National WISP Coverage map. It had been over a year since the last version. Matt Larsen had sent me the latest zip code list from the WISP Directory and I had a few other updates from various WISP's that were added in this run. In this version I took the steps to tabulate some demographic information. Zip Codes have a defined centroid latitude and longitude. I mapped those points and selected all that fall within the yellow areas on the national map. This includes AK, HI, PR and the other territories. With those points known, the demographics were tallied by zip code. It not the most precise method, but it's a good start. I'd love to study down to the census block level but that can only be done on a state by state basis due to the volume of data. So here are the results: a.. 76,094,135 Housing Units passed b.. 188,613,240 Population Passed c.. $33,867.00 Median Income of the population passed Not to shabby. Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Lauderdale Lakes FL
Anyone service this area? Thanks! Greg WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
