Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
Yes. Travis RickG wrote: > Would you leave the AP in bridge mode and let the "tower router" take > care of the routing? > > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: > >> One way to conserve IP space is to route a subnet to each "tower" rather >> than each AP. Have every AP plugged into a switch at the tower, and then >> into a router before it leaves that tower. That way you can use up the >> entire subnet before adding another. ;) >> >> Travis >> Microserv >> >> Alan Bryant wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Alan, We're in the process of doing this too. We're going to run a bridged backbone (mostly) with routing AP's. Mikrotik in our case. For IP space we went to ARIN and got our own (two upstreams on opposite sides of the network). We were able to get 8 class c's this way. We're also subnetting a LOT of network space. When we run out of space on an AP we'll just add another subnet to that AP and route it as well. Shouldn't be too big of a deal. Hope that helps! marlonMarlon (and others), >>> Thanks a lot for your reply. You confirmed what I suspected. Like I >>> said, I had never encountered this before. Good luck in your redesign. >>> >>> >>> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
Would you leave the AP in bridge mode and let the "tower router" take care of the routing? On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:47 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: > One way to conserve IP space is to route a subnet to each "tower" rather > than each AP. Have every AP plugged into a switch at the tower, and then > into a router before it leaves that tower. That way you can use up the > entire subnet before adding another. ;) > > Travis > Microserv > > Alan Bryant wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Alan, >>> >>> We're in the process of doing this too. >>> >>> We're going to run a bridged backbone (mostly) with routing AP's. Mikrotik >>> in our case. >>> >>> For IP space we went to ARIN and got our own (two upstreams on opposite >>> sides of the network). >>> >>> We were able to get 8 class c's this way. We're also subnetting a LOT of >>> network space. >>> >>> When we run out of space on an AP we'll just add another subnet to that AP >>> and route it as well. Shouldn't be too big of a deal. >>> >>> Hope that helps! >>> marlonMarlon (and others), >>> >> >> Thanks a lot for your reply. You confirmed what I suspected. Like I >> said, I had never encountered this before. Good luck in your redesign. >> >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
LOL, I'm with you. I didnt even look at the vendor list, just who is going to be there. Now I see your name :) I'll make it a point to find you! -RickG On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 11:08 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > I'll be there. > > I've not see the speaker's roster yet so I'm not sure I'll get much out of > it or not. > > To me, the big draw for a show is being able to hear from my peers and see > my friends. > > I can talk to a vendor any time. It's those that are doing what I do, > successfully, that I want to listen to. > > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Rick Harnish" > To: ; "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:28 PM > Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > >> Members and WISP followers, >> >> >> >> We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many of you >> face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional Meeting >> Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July 21st >> and >> 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response we >> have >> received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our >> Regional Meeting. >> >> >> >> One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs that >> are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in the >> first >> stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its central >> location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP >> companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% of >> our >> attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. >> Louis. >> This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why this >> to be the case. >> >> >> >> My first inclination is to blame it on weather. I realize that weather in >> the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with persistent >> storms continually moving across the region. I am asking if this is >> really >> the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this >> meeting >> or not. If it is something else, I would like to investigate further. We >> believe it is our obligation to the Vendors who have committed staff, >> money >> and resources to attend the meeting, that we ask these tough questions. >> >> >> >> Our goal and the budget for the RM are based on a count of 200 attendees. >> We >> are pretty sure we will reach this goal but if we are not going to get >> there, we need to start preparing now. As you may or may not know, we do >> have a price increase of $50 per attendee beginning on July 1st. It would >> be silly of me not to point this out to any prospective attendees. >> >> >> >> This week, we were able to negotiate a much nicer hotel and meeting >> facilities at the Renaissance Hotel in St. Louis. The Renaissance >> actually >> lowered its room rate surprisingly to $79 per night and threw in free >> internet, parking and shuttle. These concessions are saving our >> participants nearly $60 from the previous hotel. The catering and AV >> budgets alone exceed the registration fees we are charging for members. >> >> >> >> Therefore, I ask that everyone describe your intentions for attending or >> not >> intending and send a brief description why. If it is summer vacation, >> that >> is fine, that is a risk we took when choosing these dates. If it is >> summer >> activities such as 4H fairs, baseball tournaments, or whatever, just let >> me >> know. If it is the weather and damage has not allowed you to book because >> of excessive repair bills, that is also fine. I am just trying to get a >> feel on the pulse of the industry as we analyze the success of this >> meeting >> and possibly plan the next one. >> >> >> >> If there are other challenges you wish to discuss, let me know. I would >> rather the Board be aware so that we can formulate policy and programs to >> alleviate these concerns as we move forward. >> >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> >> >> Rick Harnish >> >> President >> >> WISPA >> >> 260-307-4000 cell >> >> 866-317-2851 WISPA Office >> >> Skype: rick.harnish. >> >> rharn...@wispa.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >
Re: [WISPA] OT, new IP addresses blackholed
https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo Well worth being on if you have issues ... On Jun 28, 2010, at 11:51 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > Hiya Alan, > > I'm not on any NANOG lists. Don't even know what that is. > > I'm NOT the router guy here. I'm the wireless guy. (Butch is the > router > guy for my company.) > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Alan Bryant" > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 7:44 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT, new IP addresses blackholed > > > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Marlon K. Schafer > > wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> We're trying to get some newly assigned IP addresses to work right. >> >> 199.204.200.x thru 199.204.208.x >> >> My upstream tells me that their upstream is trying to work with >> AT&T on >> the >> issue (that's where a trace route dies). >> >> We can get to most internet sites, but those within AT&T's network >> seem to >> be dumping into a black hole. >> >> I've GOT to get my addresses online. We're completely out of space >> on two >> of our class c's. >> >> Any ideas for me? >> marlon > > Marlon, > > Have you tried posting to NANOG to see if someone from AT&T is on > there that could help? > > -- > Alan Bryant | Systems Administrator > Gtek Computers & Wireless, LLC. > a...@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz > O 361-777-1400 | F 361-777-1405 > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT, new IP addresses blackholed
Hiya Alan, I'm not on any NANOG lists. Don't even know what that is. I'm NOT the router guy here. I'm the wireless guy. (Butch is the router guy for my company.) marlon - Original Message - From: "Alan Bryant" To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT, new IP addresses blackholed On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > Hi All, > > We're trying to get some newly assigned IP addresses to work right. > > 199.204.200.x thru 199.204.208.x > > My upstream tells me that their upstream is trying to work with AT&T on > the > issue (that's where a trace route dies). > > We can get to most internet sites, but those within AT&T's network seem to > be dumping into a black hole. > > I've GOT to get my addresses online. We're completely out of space on two > of our class c's. > > Any ideas for me? > marlon Marlon, Have you tried posting to NANOG to see if someone from AT&T is on there that could help? -- Alan Bryant | Systems Administrator Gtek Computers & Wireless, LLC. a...@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz O 361-777-1400 | F 361-777-1405 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT, new IP addresses blackholed
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 07:29:16PM -0700, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > Hi All, > > We're trying to get some newly assigned IP addresses to work right. > > 199.204.200.x thru 199.204.208.x > > My upstream tells me that their upstream is trying to work with AT&T on the > issue (that's where a trace route dies). > > We can get to most internet sites, but those within AT&T's network seem to > be dumping into a black hole. > > I've GOT to get my addresses online. We're completely out of space on two > of our class c's. traceroute to 199.204.200.1 (199.204.200.1), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 router-e0 (216.61.218.5) 0.954 ms 0.608 ms 0.670 ms 2 12.94.73.149 (12.94.73.149) 2.187 ms 2.240 ms 2.095 ms 3 cr1.sl9mo.ip.att.net (12.122.112.6) 29.372 ms 19.643 ms 19.561 ms 4 cr2.sl9mo.ip.att.net (12.122.2.218) 19.641 ms 19.200 ms 19.179 ms 5 cr2.cgcil.ip.att.net (12.122.2.21) 19.789 ms 20.276 ms 19.769 ms 6 cgcil02jt.ip.att.net (12.122.81.21) 18.440 ms 18.530 ms 87.271 ms 7 192.205.36.246 (192.205.36.246) 18.647 ms 18.798 ms 18.829 ms 8 xe-2-0-0.sea11.ip4.tinet.net (89.149.187.113) 87.063 ms 86.468 ms 85.001 ms 9 northwest-open-access-network-gw.tinet.net (77.67.70.134) 77.434 ms 79.134 ms 79.301 ms 10 srp2-0.oly-cor0.noanet.net (66.119.192.20) 81.156 ms 81.294 ms 86.967 ms 11 199.204.200.1 (199.204.200.1) 104.579 ms 102.791 ms 104.563 ms -- Scott LambertKC5MLE Unix SysAdmin lamb...@lambertfam.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips
gici devices generally suck. The only thing I've seen that's worse is the new Arcfault units. marlon - Original Message - From: "RickG" To: Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:48 PM Subject: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips > Anyone had any issues with a GFCI outlet (not breaker) tripping? I've > had several outages on this tower and want to stop it. Personally, I > dont think the GFCI is necessary as the box is in a class 6 NEMA > enclosure. Any thoughts? > Thanks in advance! > -RickG > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
It is all on the registration page Marlon, has been for about a month. It changes as we refine the topics and speakers. http://wispaslrm.eventbrite.com > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:09 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > I'll be there. > > I've not see the speaker's roster yet so I'm not sure I'll get much out > of > it or not. > > To me, the big draw for a show is being able to hear from my peers and > see > my friends. > > I can talk to a vendor any time. It's those that are doing what I do, > successfully, that I want to listen to. > > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "Rick Harnish" > To: ; "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:28 PM > Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > > > Members and WISP followers, > > > > > > > > We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many > of you > > face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional > Meeting > > Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July > 21st > > and > > 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response > we > > have > > received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our > > Regional Meeting. > > > > > > > > One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs > that > > are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in > the > > first > > stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its > central > > location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP > > companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% > of > > our > > attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. > > Louis. > > This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why > this > > to be the case. > > > > > > > > My first inclination is to blame it on weather. I realize that > weather in > > the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with > persistent > > storms continually moving across the region. I am asking if this is > > really > > the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this > > meeting > > or not. If it is something else, I would like to investigate > further. We > > believe it is our obligation to the Vendors who have committed staff, > > money > > and resources to attend the meeting, that we ask these tough > questions. > > > > > > > > Our goal and the budget for the RM are based on a count of 200 > attendees. > > We > > are pretty sure we will reach this goal but if we are not going to > get > > there, we need to start preparing now. As you may or may not know, > we do > > have a price increase of $50 per attendee beginning on July 1st. It > would > > be silly of me not to point this out to any prospective attendees. > > > > > > > > This week, we were able to negotiate a much nicer hotel and meeting > > facilities at the Renaissance Hotel in St. Louis. The Renaissance > > actually > > lowered its room rate surprisingly to $79 per night and threw in free > > internet, parking and shuttle. These concessions are saving our > > participants nearly $60 from the previous hotel. The catering and AV > > budgets alone exceed the registration fees we are charging for > members. > > > > > > > > Therefore, I ask that everyone describe your intentions for attending > or > > not > > intending and send a brief description why. If it is summer > vacation, > > that > > is fine, that is a risk we took when choosing these dates. If it is > > summer > > activities such as 4H fairs, baseball tournaments, or whatever, just > let > > me > > know. If it is the weather and damage has not allowed you to book > because > > of excessive repair bills, that is also fine. I am just trying to > get a > > feel on the pulse of the industry as we analyze the success of this > > meeting > > and possibly plan the next one. > > > > > > > > If there are other challenges you wish to discuss, let me know. I > would > > rather the Board be aware so that we can formulate policy and > programs to > > alleviate these concerns as we move forward. > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > Rick Harnish > > > > President > > > > WISPA > > > > 260-307-4000 cell > > > > 866-317-2851 WISPA Office > > > > Skype: rick.harnish. > > > > rharn...@wispa.org > > > > > > > > > > > > - > --- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > - > --- > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > ---
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
I'll be there. I've not see the speaker's roster yet so I'm not sure I'll get much out of it or not. To me, the big draw for a show is being able to hear from my peers and see my friends. I can talk to a vendor any time. It's those that are doing what I do, successfully, that I want to listen to. marlon - Original Message - From: "Rick Harnish" To: ; "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:28 PM Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > Members and WISP followers, > > > > We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many of you > face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional Meeting > Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July 21st > and > 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response we > have > received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our > Regional Meeting. > > > > One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs that > are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in the > first > stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its central > location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP > companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% of > our > attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. > Louis. > This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why this > to be the case. > > > > My first inclination is to blame it on weather. I realize that weather in > the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with persistent > storms continually moving across the region. I am asking if this is > really > the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this > meeting > or not. If it is something else, I would like to investigate further. We > believe it is our obligation to the Vendors who have committed staff, > money > and resources to attend the meeting, that we ask these tough questions. > > > > Our goal and the budget for the RM are based on a count of 200 attendees. > We > are pretty sure we will reach this goal but if we are not going to get > there, we need to start preparing now. As you may or may not know, we do > have a price increase of $50 per attendee beginning on July 1st. It would > be silly of me not to point this out to any prospective attendees. > > > > This week, we were able to negotiate a much nicer hotel and meeting > facilities at the Renaissance Hotel in St. Louis. The Renaissance > actually > lowered its room rate surprisingly to $79 per night and threw in free > internet, parking and shuttle. These concessions are saving our > participants nearly $60 from the previous hotel. The catering and AV > budgets alone exceed the registration fees we are charging for members. > > > > Therefore, I ask that everyone describe your intentions for attending or > not > intending and send a brief description why. If it is summer vacation, > that > is fine, that is a risk we took when choosing these dates. If it is > summer > activities such as 4H fairs, baseball tournaments, or whatever, just let > me > know. If it is the weather and damage has not allowed you to book because > of excessive repair bills, that is also fine. I am just trying to get a > feel on the pulse of the industry as we analyze the success of this > meeting > and possibly plan the next one. > > > > If there are other challenges you wish to discuss, let me know. I would > rather the Board be aware so that we can formulate policy and programs to > alleviate these concerns as we move forward. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Rick Harnish > > President > > WISPA > > 260-307-4000 cell > > 866-317-2851 WISPA Office > > Skype: rick.harnish. > > rharn...@wispa.org > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] The hitch hikers guide to St. Louis.
The real question is: Is Stuart going to book a "tour"? roflol ciao, Stuart Pierce - Original Message - From: "Rick Harnish" To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] The hitch hikers guide to St. Louis. > Mike, > > I haven't organized any trips like an arch tour or a trip to a Cardinals > game. I would suggest doing either on Tuesday or Thursday evening before > or > after the event. I have heard some talk about going to a game. I would > love someone stepping in to organize an extracurricular activity as I know > I > won't have time. > > Thank and I look forward to meeting you. It seems like we already have. > > Thanks, > Rick > >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mike >> Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 5:35 PM >> To: 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: [WISPA] The hitch hikers guide to St. Louis. >> >> I've decided I'm going to St. Louis. Who is going where it would be >> convenient to arrive together? Too close to fly. Kinda like my >> generation; >> too young for Woodstock, too old for Sesame Street. >> >> I hope someone has an arch tour in the works; I'd do that if time >> allows. >> >> I am looking forward to attaching faces to names. I will be one of the >> faces without a name. >> >> Friendly Regards, >> >> Mike >> >> Mike Gilchrist >> Disruptive Technologist >> Advanced Wireless Express >> P.O. Box 255 >> Toledo, IA 52342 >> 239.770.6203 >> m...@aweiowa.com >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Mike Hammett >> Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 8:45 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Network Redesign >> >> https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four222 >> The smallest you can request is a /22 if multihomed. >> >> https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#two7 >> It appears they have changed the definition. It used to include a >> section >> on going to be multihomed in 30 days or some bit. >> >> If not multihomed, the smallest you can request is a /20. >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> On 6/26/2010 8:22 AM, Alan Bryant wrote: >> > Apparently I talked with the wrong. Person or things have changed. >> > ARIN told me that I needed to be multihomed or show the need for a >> /20. >> > >> > On Jun 26, 2010 6:32 AM, "Francois D. Menard" >> wrote: >> > >> > You do not need to be multihomed, just need to demonstrate intent to >> > be multihomed... And show need for 400+ IP's >> > >> > -- >> > fmen...@xittel.net >> > >> > >> > On 2010-06-25, at 17:21, Alan Bryant >> wrote: >> > >> > >> >> We do not have them fr... >> >> >> > >> >> >> > - >> - >> > -- >> > >> >> WISPA Wants You... >> >> >> > >> > - >> - >> > -- >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > - >> - >> > -- >> > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > >> >> >> --- >> - >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> --- >> - >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> --- >> - >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> --- >> - >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/lis
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
One way to conserve IP space is to route a subnet to each "tower" rather than each AP. Have every AP plugged into a switch at the tower, and then into a router before it leaves that tower. That way you can use up the entire subnet before adding another. ;) Travis Microserv Alan Bryant wrote: > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer > wrote: > >> Hi Alan, >> >> We're in the process of doing this too. >> >> We're going to run a bridged backbone (mostly) with routing AP's. Mikrotik >> in our case. >> >> For IP space we went to ARIN and got our own (two upstreams on opposite >> sides of the network). >> >> We were able to get 8 class c's this way. We're also subnetting a LOT of >> network space. >> >> When we run out of space on an AP we'll just add another subnet to that AP >> and route it as well. Shouldn't be too big of a deal. >> >> Hope that helps! >> marlonMarlon (and others), >> > > Thanks a lot for your reply. You confirmed what I suspected. Like I > said, I had never encountered this before. Good luck in your redesign. > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT, new IP addresses blackholed
Keep pushing your upstream(s) to get it fixed. Daily calls. We had the same issue with our 69.20.128 block about 6 years ago... apparently the entire 69 block used to be "unrouteable" IP space until ARIN opened it up and starting giving it out to poor suckers (like me)... the problem was most providers didn't take it out of their filters. Travis Microserv Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > Hi All, > > We're trying to get some newly assigned IP addresses to work right. > > 199.204.200.x thru 199.204.208.x > > My upstream tells me that their upstream is trying to work with AT&T on the > issue (that's where a trace route dies). > > We can get to most internet sites, but those within AT&T's network seem to > be dumping into a black hole. > > I've GOT to get my addresses online. We're completely out of space on two > of our class c's. > > Any ideas for me? > marlon > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] OT, new IP addresses blackholed
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > Hi All, > > We're trying to get some newly assigned IP addresses to work right. > > 199.204.200.x thru 199.204.208.x > > My upstream tells me that their upstream is trying to work with AT&T on the > issue (that's where a trace route dies). > > We can get to most internet sites, but those within AT&T's network seem to > be dumping into a black hole. > > I've GOT to get my addresses online. We're completely out of space on two > of our class c's. > > Any ideas for me? > marlon Marlon, Have you tried posting to NANOG to see if someone from AT&T is on there that could help? -- Alan Bryant | Systems Administrator Gtek Computers & Wireless, LLC. a...@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz O 361-777-1400 | F 361-777-1405 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > Hi Alan, > > We're in the process of doing this too. > > We're going to run a bridged backbone (mostly) with routing AP's. Mikrotik > in our case. > > For IP space we went to ARIN and got our own (two upstreams on opposite > sides of the network). > > We were able to get 8 class c's this way. We're also subnetting a LOT of > network space. > > When we run out of space on an AP we'll just add another subnet to that AP > and route it as well. Shouldn't be too big of a deal. > > Hope that helps! > marlonMarlon (and others), Thanks a lot for your reply. You confirmed what I suspected. Like I said, I had never encountered this before. Good luck in your redesign. -- Alan Bryant | Systems Administrator Gtek Computers & Wireless, LLC. a...@gtekcommunications.com | www.gtek.biz O 361-777-1400 | F 361-777-1405 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Redesign
Hi Alan, We're in the process of doing this too. We're going to run a bridged backbone (mostly) with routing AP's. Mikrotik in our case. For IP space we went to ARIN and got our own (two upstreams on opposite sides of the network). We were able to get 8 class c's this way. We're also subnetting a LOT of network space. When we run out of space on an AP we'll just add another subnet to that AP and route it as well. Shouldn't be too big of a deal. Hope that helps! marlon - Original Message - From: "Alan Bryant" To: ; Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 2:08 PM Subject: [WISPA] Network Redesign > We are in the process of redesigning our entire network from our > upstream all the way to the customer. > > Currently everything is bridged and on the same physical network. > Obviously we are wanting to change this for many reasons. Subnetting > it out on the private side isn't a problem, but the public side is. > > We are leaning towards having routeros based routers at every tower > and subnetting all the way to the AP's. We don't have enough public > IP's to allow enough room for much growth. My main question is, what > is the best course of action once you run out of IP's at an AP or > tower? What is the most efficient way of bringing more IP's in without > renumbering everything? > > I appreciate any and all responses on or off list. Let me know if more > information is needed to give better answers. > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] OT, new IP addresses blackholed
Hi All, We're trying to get some newly assigned IP addresses to work right. 199.204.200.x thru 199.204.208.x My upstream tells me that their upstream is trying to work with AT&T on the issue (that's where a trace route dies). We can get to most internet sites, but those within AT&T's network seem to be dumping into a black hole. I've GOT to get my addresses online. We're completely out of space on two of our class c's. Any ideas for me? marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
Right on all counts Charles, 1. I would've put it off longer but with the price going up I wanted the discount. 2. Yes, easy to forget with so much going on. 3. For me, the "compelling stuff" is to meet more people in the industry. The fact that the whole WISPA Board is going to be there convinced me. In order to crate more "Buzz" I'd spam out the complete list of attendees already signed up. 4. I agree but sooner or later its good to meet the people behind the posts :) -RickG On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 12:25 AM, Charles Wu wrote: > A few comments / thoughts > > 1. From our experience doing shows, the 500 mile radius drive in crowd will > wait until the last possible minute to book - heck, many will decide the day > before whether or not they can attend - in addition, we've found that almost > 30-40% of your sign-ups will come in the 2 weeks leading up to the actual > show date > > 2. You need to SPAM / harass more -- people are busy, and stuff comes up, and > it's easy to forget when there are more pressing things to take care of > (lightening, bills, new tower, etc) > > 3. You need to go about creating more *buzz* -- right now, there's nothing > absolutely compelling that's going to get everyone to go (this is nothing > against this show, but this lack of "compelling stuff" is what the ISPCON > guys had been complaining about for the last 3-4 years before they shut that > down) > > 4. This ties in with the earlier point, but in general, the most valuable > aspect of a show, the networking, has been undone by the growth of the > Internet, aka, this listserv, has made access to information, networking, and > knowledge so readily available that the value of networking at the show has > diminished (e.g., 10 years ago, the networking was a *must go* because people > would try to cram the equivalent of 6 months worth of listserv discussion > into those 3 days) -- compare that to today where someone will post a show > update on the listserv within 30 seconds of that announcement -- kinda > devalues the effort of actually "going to the show" > > Hope this helps > > -Charles > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:28 PM > To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List' > Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > Members and WISP followers, > > > > We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many of you > face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional Meeting > Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July 21st and > 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response we have > received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our > Regional Meeting. > > > > One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs that > are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in the first > stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its central > location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP > companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% of our > attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. Louis. > This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why this > to be the case. > > > > My first inclination is to blame it on weather. I realize that weather in > the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with persistent > storms continually moving across the region. I am asking if this is really > the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this meeting > or not. If it is something else, I would like to investigate further. We > believe it is our obligation to the Vendors who have committed staff, money > and resources to attend the meeting, that we ask these tough questions. > > > > Our goal and the budget for the RM are based on a count of 200 attendees. We > are pretty sure we will reach this goal but if we are not going to get > there, we need to start preparing now. As you may or may not know, we do > have a price increase of $50 per attendee beginning on July 1st. It would > be silly of me not to point this out to any prospective attendees. > > > > This week, we were able to negotiate a much nicer hotel and meeting > facilities at the Renaissance Hotel in St. Louis. The Renaissance actually > lowered its room rate surprisingly to $79 per night and threw in free > internet, parking and shuttle. These concessions are saving our > participants nearly $60 from the previous hotel. The catering and AV > budgets alone exceed the registration fees we are charging for members. > > > > Therefore, I ask that everyone describe your intentions for attending or not > intending and send a brief description why. If it is summer vacation, that > is fine, that is a risk we took when choosing these dates. If it is summer > activities such
Re: [WISPA] Maximum sector power?
Not only that but the systems tend to work much nicer when they are run
within the design specs
marlon
- Original Message -
From: "Robert West"
To: "'WISPA General List'"
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Maximum sector power?
> Stick with the rules, dude. You'll still get customers and you'll still
> make money.
>
> One FCC visit can ruin your day,
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Fred R. Goldstein
> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 5:41 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Maximum sector power?
>
> I'm just a little confused about some of these nice-looking access points.
> The UBNT Rocket M5, for instance, can put out +27 dBm. It plugs *right
> into* a nice 19dB sector antenna. Okay, the smaller,
> 120 dB sector is only 16 dB. Now math is not really my thing but I get a
> total ERP there of +43 to 46 dBm.
>
> FCC Rule 15.247 states that the maximum transmitted power output for
> digitally-modulated intentional radiators in the 5725-5850 MHz band
> ("ISM") is 1 watt, and the maximum antenna gain is 6 dBi. Each additional
> dB of antanna gain means one less dB of power. So the maximum ERP is 4
> watts (+36).
>
> Point-to-point is an exception in that specific band; it is allowed
> unlimited antenna gain. But "point-to-multipoint systems, omnidirectional
> applications, and multiple co-located intentional radiators transmitting
> the
> same information" are under the cap.
>
> So am I correct in assuming that everybody who uses the Rocket M5, or any
> other similar PtMP system for subscriber access, turns the transmitter
> power
> REAL low (~+20 + feedline loss), in order to keep the ERP below +36? Or
> are
> we assuming that since you're technically only transmitting and receiving
> to
> one end user at a time, it's really PtP?
>
> SkyPilot's legal hack, of course, is to have eight 45 degree sector
> antennas
> and only use one at a time, so it is legally PTP even with
> +42 EiRP. And with advanced 11N 4x4 beamforming antennas, something
> like that will become relatively easy. But we're not quite there yet.
> Thoughts?
>
> --
> Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
> ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/
> +1 617 795 2701
>
>
>
>
>
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>
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Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips
GFCIs do nothing to protect your equipment from surges, spikes, etc. All they do is interrupt the circuit if the current flowing on the hot conductor is not equal to the current flowing on the neutral conductor, which indicates that some current is leaking to ground. You need a TVSS to arrest surges, spikes, etc. Your equipment should not be plugged into a GFCI outlet. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com RickG wrote: > I suppose you have to weigh between possibly losing an occational > power supply or outages causing multiple truck rolls. > What I really want to know is using a GFCI outlet standard proceedure > for tower installations? > > On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Tom Sharples wrote: >> They may have saved your gear tho. We do use them on installs in industrial >> yards, ports, etc. and there I'm quite sure they saved several camaeras, >> swiches and power supplies from an untimely demise. >> >> Tom S. >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Blair Davis >> To: WISPA General List >> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:22 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips >> >> >> GFCI's around here trip every time the lightning flashes. >> >> I won't use them to power radio gear. >> >> >> >> RickG wrote: >> Anyone had any issues with a GFCI outlet (not breaker) tripping? I've >> had several outages on this tower and want to stop it. Personally, I >> dont think the GFCI is necessary as the box is in a class 6 NEMA >> enclosure. Any thoughts? >> Thanks in advance! >> -RickG >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2675 - Release Date: 02/08/10 >> 07:35:00 >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
So are you going are you gonna stay there with Rikeesha? :) On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Robert West wrote: > " We originally picked St. Louis" > > With total and absolute respect for the board, we had an online discussion > of where and why among all of us and St. Louis really wasn't in the mix. > The timing is also "weird" because the summer, at least for me, is the > busiest because the weather is damn best for fixing everything and getting > new AP's installed. I'm working like hell to beat the snow. (Just got in > from a new AP install) > > Get me in mid-January and I'll have plenty of time. Look at the volume of > list postings and you'll understand. The winter gives us all lots of time > to list post thus empty time in our schedules. Graph it out, you'll > understand. Yeah, travel in the winter sucks. But I got's the > time then! > > Besides... St. Louis? > > I went to the Dayton Hamvention, met some WISPA members, saw some great > "junk" and spent some cash. Not to push Dayton (Dayton blows) but as we > talked about before, a hook up with another similar event is the cool thing > for me. No matter where it is. I really don't care where but the > Hamvention is well known by a lot of WISPA Hams. > > Anyhow, just no time and no incentive in going. Ticket price and hotel > price have no bearing on my lack of attending. > > Anyone with similar issues??? > > Bob- > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:28 PM > To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List' > Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > Members and WISP followers, > > > > We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many of you > face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional Meeting > Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July 21st and > 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response we have > received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our > Regional Meeting. > > > > One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs that > are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in the first > stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its central > location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP > companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% of our > attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. Louis. > This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why this > to be the case. > > > > My first inclination is to blame it on weather. I realize that weather in > the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with persistent > storms continually moving across the region. I am asking if this is really > the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this meeting > or not. If it is something else, I would like to investigate further. We > believe it is our obligation to the Vendors who have committed staff, money > and resources to attend the meeting, that we ask these tough questions. > > > > Our goal and the budget for the RM are based on a count of 200 attendees. We > are pretty sure we will reach this goal but if we are not going to get > there, we need to start preparing now. As you may or may not know, we do > have a price increase of $50 per attendee beginning on July 1st. It would > be silly of me not to point this out to any prospective attendees. > > > > This week, we were able to negotiate a much nicer hotel and meeting > facilities at the Renaissance Hotel in St. Louis. The Renaissance actually > lowered its room rate surprisingly to $79 per night and threw in free > internet, parking and shuttle. These concessions are saving our > participants nearly $60 from the previous hotel. The catering and AV > budgets alone exceed the registration fees we are charging for members. > > > > Therefore, I ask that everyone describe your intentions for attending or not > intending and send a brief description why. If it is summer vacation, that > is fine, that is a risk we took when choosing these dates. If it is summer > activities such as 4H fairs, baseball tournaments, or whatever, just let me > know. If it is the weather and damage has not allowed you to book because > of excessive repair bills, that is also fine. I am just trying to get a > feel on the pulse of the industry as we analyze the success of this meeting > and possibly plan the next one. > > > > If there are other challenges you wish to discuss, let me know. I would > rather the Board be aware so that we can formulate policy and programs to > alleviate these concerns as we move forward. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Rick Harnish > > President > > WISPA > > 260-307-4000 cell > > 866-317-2851 WISPA Office > > Skype: rick.harnish. > > rharn.
Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips
No. I can't remember the last time I saw a GFCI at a tower site except for a service outlet on the outside of a shelter. My understanding they are only required in wet locations where corded devices are used. Hardwire a UPS into the circuit and throw the GFCI out. NEC does not require GFCI's on the outside of commercial structures. -B- Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: RickG Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 21:02:59 To: Tom Sharples; WISPA General List Reply-To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips I suppose you have to weigh between possibly losing an occational power supply or outages causing multiple truck rolls. What I really want to know is using a GFCI outlet standard proceedure for tower installations? On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Tom Sharples wrote: > They may have saved your gear tho. We do use them on installs in industrial > yards, ports, etc. and there I'm quite sure they saved several camaeras, > swiches and power supplies from an untimely demise. > > Tom S. > > - Original Message - > From: Blair Davis > To: WISPA General List > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:22 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips > > > GFCI's around here trip every time the lightning flashes. > > I won't use them to power radio gear. > > > > RickG wrote: > Anyone had any issues with a GFCI outlet (not breaker) tripping? I've > had several outages on this tower and want to stop it. Personally, I > dont think the GFCI is necessary as the box is in a class 6 NEMA > enclosure. Any thoughts? > Thanks in advance! > -RickG > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > -- > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -- > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2675 - Release Date: 02/08/10 > 07:35:00 > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips
Ground is good. This is a very simple & clean install:
[power]-->[UPS]-->{POE]-->[radio]
My local electrician says no need for GFCI, so out it goes!
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Robert West
wrote:
> Check the install. GFCI is ground fault. It should always trip if the
> ground is open. If not tripping, there is another ground path.
>
> Bob-
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 6:48 PM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips
>
> Anyone had any issues with a GFCI outlet (not breaker) tripping? I've had
> several outages on this tower and want to stop it. Personally, I dont think
> the GFCI is necessary as the box is in a class 6 NEMA enclosure. Any
> thoughts?
> Thanks in advance!
> -RickG
>
>
>
>
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips
I suppose you have to weigh between possibly losing an occational power supply or outages causing multiple truck rolls. What I really want to know is using a GFCI outlet standard proceedure for tower installations? On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Tom Sharples wrote: > They may have saved your gear tho. We do use them on installs in industrial > yards, ports, etc. and there I'm quite sure they saved several camaeras, > swiches and power supplies from an untimely demise. > > Tom S. > > - Original Message - > From: Blair Davis > To: WISPA General List > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 8:22 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips > > > GFCI's around here trip every time the lightning flashes. > > I won't use them to power radio gear. > > > > RickG wrote: > Anyone had any issues with a GFCI outlet (not breaker) tripping? I've > had several outages on this tower and want to stop it. Personally, I > dont think the GFCI is necessary as the box is in a class 6 NEMA > enclosure. Any thoughts? > Thanks in advance! > -RickG > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > -- > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > -- > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.435 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2675 - Release Date: 02/08/10 > 07:35:00 > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips
I agree. All of my other towers do NOT have GFCI and do NOT have any issues. On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 9:24 PM, wrote: > We have had problems over the years at sites using GFCI's. In all cases we > removed them and hardwired the equipment. > > Way too many service interuptions with them in place. > > Obviously you need to maintain code but there are always ways around it. > > -B- > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -Original Message- > From: RickG > Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org > Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 18:48:10 > To: > Reply-To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips > > Anyone had any issues with a GFCI outlet (not breaker) tripping? I've > had several outages on this tower and want to stop it. Personally, I > dont think the GFCI is necessary as the box is in a class 6 NEMA > enclosure. Any thoughts? > Thanks in advance! > -RickG > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips
Thats standard procedure for me. I put in line conditioners too. On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Mike wrote: > The easy resolve for that problem, if you have to have GFIs, is to add a > small APC UPS after the GFI and use GOOD ones! > > _ > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Blair Davis > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 10:23 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips > > > GFCI's around here trip every time the lightning flashes. > > I won't use them to power radio gear. > > > > RickG wrote: > > Anyone had any issues with a GFCI outlet (not breaker) tripping? I've > > had several outages on this tower and want to stop it. Personally, I > > dont think the GFCI is necessary as the box is in a class 6 NEMA > > enclosure. Any thoughts? > > Thanks in advance! > > -RickG > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
Even if it smells really badly at least we won't run out of oil, just skim a little off... On 6/28/2010 2:14 PM, St. Louis Broadband wrote: > Isn't the cruise in the Gulf? > ...just sayin'... > > ~V~ > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Forbes Mercy > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 4:06 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > Chuck, > > You wouldn't get any objection from me, are you going on the Wireless > Cruise this fall? > > Forbes > > On 6/28/2010 1:57 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: > >> How about a west coast regional 2 or 3 day WISPA cruise like SF to LA >> > , > >> or just Long Beach to Catalina >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Forbes Mercy >> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:44 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? >> >> Robert, >> >> Are you on the Promotion Committee? These are all important inputs we >> need when we make decisions, it wasn't the board who decided, they >> followed the recommendations of the Promotion Committee. We have no >> intention of having another summer show, we have learned a lot in this >> our first show and that's one of them. You can join at >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/Promotion >> >> If you don't have the time that's fine it's a dent in my summer schedule >> too and I'm not just going for the two days, but no incentive I think >> not, there is a lot of benefit going to this meeting. I'm not sure >> asking what concerns there were was necessary unless to help people who >> needed help coming but to rehash minority views in a well documented >> series of surveys, webinars, and question/answer opportunities isn't >> productive, I hope to see you up front at our next attempt at this >> ongoing series. >> >> Thanks, >> Forbes >> Promotion Committee Chair >> >> On 6/27/2010 9:41 PM, Robert West wrote: >> >> >>> " We originally picked St. Louis" >>> >>> With total and absolute respect for the board, we had an online >>> > discussion > >>> of where and why among all of us and St. Louis really wasn't in the mix. >>> The timing is also "weird" because the summer, at least for me, is the >>> busiest because the weather is damn best for fixing everything and >>> > getting > >>> new AP's installed. I'm working like hell to beat the snow. (Just got >>> > in > >>> from a new AP install) >>> >>> Get me in mid-January and I'll have plenty of time. Look at the volume >>> > of > >>> list postings and you'll understand. The winter gives us all lots of >>> > time > >>> to list post thus empty time in our schedules. Graph it out, you'll >>> understand. Yeah, travel in the winter sucks. But I got's >>> >>> >> the >> >> >>> time then! >>> >>> Besides... St. Louis? >>> >>> I went to the Dayton Hamvention, met some WISPA members, saw some great >>> "junk" and spent some cash. Not to push Dayton (Dayton blows) but as we >>> talked about before, a hook up with another similar event is the cool >>> >>> >> thing >> >> >>> for me. No matter where it is. I really don't care where but the >>> Hamvention is well known by a lot of WISPA Hams. >>> >>> Anyhow, just no time and no incentive in going. Ticket price and hotel >>> price have no bearing on my lack of attending. >>> >>> Anyone with similar issues??? >>> >>> Bob- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >>> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:28 PM >>> To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List' >>> Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? >>> >>> Members and WISP followers, >>> >>> >>> >>> We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many of >>> > you > >>> face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional Meeting >>> Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July 21st >>> >>> >> and >> >> >>> 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response we >>> >>> >> have >> >> >>> received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our >>> Regional Meeting. >>> >>> >>> >>> One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs >>> > that > >>> are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in the >>> >>> >> first >> >> >>> stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its central >>> location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP >>> companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% of >>> >>> >> our >> >> >>> attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. >>> >>> >
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
Chuck, I am guessing the next event after the Oxford Show in Dallas will be a Regional Event on the West or East Coasts or at least a centralized location along the coasts. We will probably do another survey to see which coast wins! Rick > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Chuck Profito > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 4:58 PM > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > How about a west coast regional 2 or 3 day WISPA cruise like SF to > LA , > or just Long Beach to Catalina > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Forbes Mercy > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:44 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > Robert, > > Are you on the Promotion Committee? These are all important inputs we > need when we make decisions, it wasn't the board who decided, they > followed the recommendations of the Promotion Committee. We have no > intention of having another summer show, we have learned a lot in this > our first show and that's one of them. You can join at > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/Promotion > > If you don't have the time that's fine it's a dent in my summer > schedule > too and I'm not just going for the two days, but no incentive I think > not, there is a lot of benefit going to this meeting. I'm not sure > asking what concerns there were was necessary unless to help people who > needed help coming but to rehash minority views in a well documented > series of surveys, webinars, and question/answer opportunities isn't > productive, I hope to see you up front at our next attempt at this > ongoing series. > > Thanks, > Forbes > Promotion Committee Chair > > On 6/27/2010 9:41 PM, Robert West wrote: > > " We originally picked St. Louis" > > > > With total and absolute respect for the board, we had an online > discussion > > of where and why among all of us and St. Louis really wasn't in the > mix. > > The timing is also "weird" because the summer, at least for me, is > the > > busiest because the weather is damn best for fixing everything and > getting > > new AP's installed. I'm working like hell to beat the snow. (Just > got in > > from a new AP install) > > > > Get me in mid-January and I'll have plenty of time. Look at the > volume of > > list postings and you'll understand. The winter gives us all lots of > time > > to list post thus empty time in our schedules. Graph it out, you'll > > understand. Yeah, travel in the winter sucks. But I > got's > the > > time then! > > > > Besides... St. Louis? > > > > I went to the Dayton Hamvention, met some WISPA members, saw some > great > > "junk" and spent some cash. Not to push Dayton (Dayton blows) but > as we > > talked about before, a hook up with another similar event is the cool > thing > > for me. No matter where it is. I really don't care where but the > > Hamvention is well known by a lot of WISPA Hams. > > > > Anyhow, just no time and no incentive in going. Ticket price and > hotel > > price have no bearing on my lack of attending. > > > > Anyone with similar issues??? > > > > Bob- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] > On > > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:28 PM > > To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > > > Members and WISP followers, > > > > > > > > We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many > of you > > face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional > Meeting > > Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July > 21st > and > > 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response > we > have > > received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our > > Regional Meeting. > > > > > > > > One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs > that > > are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in > the > first > > stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its > central > > location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP > > companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% > of > our > > attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. > Louis. > > This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why > this > > to be the case. > > > > > > > > My first inclination is to blame it on weather. I realize that > weather in > > the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with > persistent > > storms continually moving across the region. I am asking if this is > really > > the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this > meeting > > or not. If it is s
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
Isn't the cruise in the Gulf? ...just sayin'... ~V~ -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 4:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? Chuck, You wouldn't get any objection from me, are you going on the Wireless Cruise this fall? Forbes On 6/28/2010 1:57 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: > How about a west coast regional 2 or 3 day WISPA cruise like SF to LA , > or just Long Beach to Catalina > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Forbes Mercy > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:44 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > Robert, > > Are you on the Promotion Committee? These are all important inputs we > need when we make decisions, it wasn't the board who decided, they > followed the recommendations of the Promotion Committee. We have no > intention of having another summer show, we have learned a lot in this > our first show and that's one of them. You can join at > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/Promotion > > If you don't have the time that's fine it's a dent in my summer schedule > too and I'm not just going for the two days, but no incentive I think > not, there is a lot of benefit going to this meeting. I'm not sure > asking what concerns there were was necessary unless to help people who > needed help coming but to rehash minority views in a well documented > series of surveys, webinars, and question/answer opportunities isn't > productive, I hope to see you up front at our next attempt at this > ongoing series. > > Thanks, > Forbes > Promotion Committee Chair > > On 6/27/2010 9:41 PM, Robert West wrote: > >> " We originally picked St. Louis" >> >> With total and absolute respect for the board, we had an online discussion >> of where and why among all of us and St. Louis really wasn't in the mix. >> The timing is also "weird" because the summer, at least for me, is the >> busiest because the weather is damn best for fixing everything and getting >> new AP's installed. I'm working like hell to beat the snow. (Just got in >> from a new AP install) >> >> Get me in mid-January and I'll have plenty of time. Look at the volume of >> list postings and you'll understand. The winter gives us all lots of time >> to list post thus empty time in our schedules. Graph it out, you'll >> understand. Yeah, travel in the winter sucks. But I got's >> > the > >> time then! >> >> Besides... St. Louis? >> >> I went to the Dayton Hamvention, met some WISPA members, saw some great >> "junk" and spent some cash. Not to push Dayton (Dayton blows) but as we >> talked about before, a hook up with another similar event is the cool >> > thing > >> for me. No matter where it is. I really don't care where but the >> Hamvention is well known by a lot of WISPA Hams. >> >> Anyhow, just no time and no incentive in going. Ticket price and hotel >> price have no bearing on my lack of attending. >> >> Anyone with similar issues??? >> >> Bob- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:28 PM >> To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? >> >> Members and WISP followers, >> >> >> >> We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many of you >> face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional Meeting >> Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July 21st >> > and > >> 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response we >> > have > >> received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our >> Regional Meeting. >> >> >> >> One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs that >> are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in the >> > first > >> stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its central >> location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP >> companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% of >> > our > >> attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. >> > Louis. > >> This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why this >> to be the case. >> >> >> >> My first inclination is to blame it on weather. I realize that weather in >> the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with persistent >> storms continually moving across the region. I am asking if this is >> > really > >> the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this >> > meeting > >> or not. If it is something else, I would like to investigate
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
Chuck, You wouldn't get any objection from me, are you going on the Wireless Cruise this fall? Forbes On 6/28/2010 1:57 PM, Chuck Profito wrote: > How about a west coast regional 2 or 3 day WISPA cruise like SF to LA , > or just Long Beach to Catalina > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Forbes Mercy > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:44 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > Robert, > > Are you on the Promotion Committee? These are all important inputs we > need when we make decisions, it wasn't the board who decided, they > followed the recommendations of the Promotion Committee. We have no > intention of having another summer show, we have learned a lot in this > our first show and that's one of them. You can join at > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/Promotion > > If you don't have the time that's fine it's a dent in my summer schedule > too and I'm not just going for the two days, but no incentive I think > not, there is a lot of benefit going to this meeting. I'm not sure > asking what concerns there were was necessary unless to help people who > needed help coming but to rehash minority views in a well documented > series of surveys, webinars, and question/answer opportunities isn't > productive, I hope to see you up front at our next attempt at this > ongoing series. > > Thanks, > Forbes > Promotion Committee Chair > > On 6/27/2010 9:41 PM, Robert West wrote: > >> " We originally picked St. Louis" >> >> With total and absolute respect for the board, we had an online discussion >> of where and why among all of us and St. Louis really wasn't in the mix. >> The timing is also "weird" because the summer, at least for me, is the >> busiest because the weather is damn best for fixing everything and getting >> new AP's installed. I'm working like hell to beat the snow. (Just got in >> from a new AP install) >> >> Get me in mid-January and I'll have plenty of time. Look at the volume of >> list postings and you'll understand. The winter gives us all lots of time >> to list post thus empty time in our schedules. Graph it out, you'll >> understand. Yeah, travel in the winter sucks. But I got's >> > the > >> time then! >> >> Besides... St. Louis? >> >> I went to the Dayton Hamvention, met some WISPA members, saw some great >> "junk" and spent some cash. Not to push Dayton (Dayton blows) but as we >> talked about before, a hook up with another similar event is the cool >> > thing > >> for me. No matter where it is. I really don't care where but the >> Hamvention is well known by a lot of WISPA Hams. >> >> Anyhow, just no time and no incentive in going. Ticket price and hotel >> price have no bearing on my lack of attending. >> >> Anyone with similar issues??? >> >> Bob- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of Rick Harnish >> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:28 PM >> To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List' >> Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? >> >> Members and WISP followers, >> >> >> >> We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many of you >> face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional Meeting >> Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July 21st >> > and > >> 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response we >> > have > >> received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our >> Regional Meeting. >> >> >> >> One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs that >> are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in the >> > first > >> stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its central >> location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP >> companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% of >> > our > >> attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. >> > Louis. > >> This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why this >> to be the case. >> >> >> >> My first inclination is to blame it on weather. I realize that weather in >> the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with persistent >> storms continually moving across the region. I am asking if this is >> > really > >> the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this >> > meeting > >> or not. If it is something else, I would like to investigate further. We >> believe it is our obligation to the Vendors who have committed staff, >> > money > >> and resources to attend the meeting, that we ask these tough questions. >> >> >> >> Our goal and the budget for the RM are based on a count of 200 attendees. >> >
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
How about a west coast regional 2 or 3 day WISPA cruise like SF to LA , or just Long Beach to Catalina -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Forbes Mercy Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? Robert, Are you on the Promotion Committee? These are all important inputs we need when we make decisions, it wasn't the board who decided, they followed the recommendations of the Promotion Committee. We have no intention of having another summer show, we have learned a lot in this our first show and that's one of them. You can join at http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/Promotion If you don't have the time that's fine it's a dent in my summer schedule too and I'm not just going for the two days, but no incentive I think not, there is a lot of benefit going to this meeting. I'm not sure asking what concerns there were was necessary unless to help people who needed help coming but to rehash minority views in a well documented series of surveys, webinars, and question/answer opportunities isn't productive, I hope to see you up front at our next attempt at this ongoing series. Thanks, Forbes Promotion Committee Chair On 6/27/2010 9:41 PM, Robert West wrote: > " We originally picked St. Louis" > > With total and absolute respect for the board, we had an online discussion > of where and why among all of us and St. Louis really wasn't in the mix. > The timing is also "weird" because the summer, at least for me, is the > busiest because the weather is damn best for fixing everything and getting > new AP's installed. I'm working like hell to beat the snow. (Just got in > from a new AP install) > > Get me in mid-January and I'll have plenty of time. Look at the volume of > list postings and you'll understand. The winter gives us all lots of time > to list post thus empty time in our schedules. Graph it out, you'll > understand. Yeah, travel in the winter sucks. But I got's the > time then! > > Besides... St. Louis? > > I went to the Dayton Hamvention, met some WISPA members, saw some great > "junk" and spent some cash. Not to push Dayton (Dayton blows) but as we > talked about before, a hook up with another similar event is the cool thing > for me. No matter where it is. I really don't care where but the > Hamvention is well known by a lot of WISPA Hams. > > Anyhow, just no time and no incentive in going. Ticket price and hotel > price have no bearing on my lack of attending. > > Anyone with similar issues??? > > Bob- > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:28 PM > To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List' > Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > Members and WISP followers, > > > > We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many of you > face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional Meeting > Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July 21st and > 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response we have > received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our > Regional Meeting. > > > > One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs that > are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in the first > stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its central > location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP > companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% of our > attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. Louis. > This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why this > to be the case. > > > > My first inclination is to blame it on weather. I realize that weather in > the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with persistent > storms continually moving across the region. I am asking if this is really > the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this meeting > or not. If it is something else, I would like to investigate further. We > believe it is our obligation to the Vendors who have committed staff, money > and resources to attend the meeting, that we ask these tough questions. > > > > Our goal and the budget for the RM are based on a count of 200 attendees. We > are pretty sure we will reach this goal but if we are not going to get > there, we need to start preparing now. As you may or may not know, we do > have a price increase of $50 per attendee beginning on July 1st. It would > be silly of me not to point this out to any prospective attendees. > > > > This week, we were able to negotiate a much nicer hotel and meeting > facilities at the Renaissance Hotel in St. Louis. The Renaissance actually > lowered
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges?
Robert, Are you on the Promotion Committee? These are all important inputs we need when we make decisions, it wasn't the board who decided, they followed the recommendations of the Promotion Committee. We have no intention of having another summer show, we have learned a lot in this our first show and that's one of them. You can join at http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/Promotion If you don't have the time that's fine it's a dent in my summer schedule too and I'm not just going for the two days, but no incentive I think not, there is a lot of benefit going to this meeting. I'm not sure asking what concerns there were was necessary unless to help people who needed help coming but to rehash minority views in a well documented series of surveys, webinars, and question/answer opportunities isn't productive, I hope to see you up front at our next attempt at this ongoing series. Thanks, Forbes Promotion Committee Chair On 6/27/2010 9:41 PM, Robert West wrote: > " We originally picked St. Louis" > > With total and absolute respect for the board, we had an online discussion > of where and why among all of us and St. Louis really wasn't in the mix. > The timing is also "weird" because the summer, at least for me, is the > busiest because the weather is damn best for fixing everything and getting > new AP's installed. I'm working like hell to beat the snow. (Just got in > from a new AP install) > > Get me in mid-January and I'll have plenty of time. Look at the volume of > list postings and you'll understand. The winter gives us all lots of time > to list post thus empty time in our schedules. Graph it out, you'll > understand. Yeah, travel in the winter sucks. But I got's the > time then! > > Besides... St. Louis? > > I went to the Dayton Hamvention, met some WISPA members, saw some great > "junk" and spent some cash. Not to push Dayton (Dayton blows) but as we > talked about before, a hook up with another similar event is the cool thing > for me. No matter where it is. I really don't care where but the > Hamvention is well known by a lot of WISPA Hams. > > Anyhow, just no time and no incentive in going. Ticket price and hotel > price have no bearing on my lack of attending. > > Anyone with similar issues??? > > Bob- > > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Rick Harnish > Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 3:28 PM > To: memb...@wispa.org; 'WISPA General List' > Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? > > Members and WISP followers, > > > > We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many of you > face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional Meeting > Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July 21st and > 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response we have > received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our > Regional Meeting. > > > > One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs that > are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in the first > stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its central > location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP > companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% of our > attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. Louis. > This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why this > to be the case. > > > > My first inclination is to blame it on weather. I realize that weather in > the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with persistent > storms continually moving across the region. I am asking if this is really > the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this meeting > or not. If it is something else, I would like to investigate further. We > believe it is our obligation to the Vendors who have committed staff, money > and resources to attend the meeting, that we ask these tough questions. > > > > Our goal and the budget for the RM are based on a count of 200 attendees. We > are pretty sure we will reach this goal but if we are not going to get > there, we need to start preparing now. As you may or may not know, we do > have a price increase of $50 per attendee beginning on July 1st. It would > be silly of me not to point this out to any prospective attendees. > > > > This week, we were able to negotiate a much nicer hotel and meeting > facilities at the Renaissance Hotel in St. Louis. The Renaissance actually > lowered its room rate surprisingly to $79 per night and threw in free > internet, parking and shuttle. These concessions are saving our > participants nearly $60 from the previous hotel. The catering and AV > budgets alone exceed the registration fees we are charging for members. > > > > Therefore, I ask that everyone describe your intention
Re: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? mumble back
Travis, We not only looked at Vegas, not only did Vegas come in a close 3rd in the survey where 77 members answered back in October 2009 but we actually (3 board members) went there and met with people, trust me Vegas was on our radar. It wasn't first though and an even larger conflict was looming, Oxford wanted to hold their show in Vegas which meant two WISPA shows in the same city. I called it a regional meeting so people could visit a WISPA event in two locations far apart from each other, trust me as a resident of Washington State they are all far, this one especially since it was designed for a more east coast event. I still remember going to both the San Jose and Baltimore ISPCON shows because stuff changed so fast in the industry, I always figured since it's just a few days out of the year its no harm. Of course it doesn't help that after our planning not to be in Vegas Oxford moved their show to Texas so essentially we're too close together anyway, oh well the best laid plans Your input was well received last year and heavily considered and I went into St. Louis based heavily on the Promotion Committee recommendations because I can't speak for that town, never visited it. What Rick has done is nothing less that spectacular, he had turned what would have been a well under-worked meeting into an event worthy of a full show. While money is always an issue the membership (and non-members) have been so over-informed of this event their probably tired of hearing about it. The Regional Meeting approach is supposed to by nature move around so if you can't make this meeting its a shame, it'll be pretty damn good. The other two top choices of Chicago and Vegas will likely be our next venues leaving open areas we haven't gone such as Atlanta or the Northeast, who knows maybe some day I'll get one in my stomping grounds. We have a ton of members in the midwest and they spoke loudest, next time we run the survey make sure and call all your neighbor WISP's to vote, that's how it works. Forbes Promotion Committee Chair On 6/27/2010 10:50 PM, Travis Johnson wrote: > I voted for Las Vegas as well. If you can find a time when things aren't > busy (in Vegas), stuff is really cheap. > > Travis > Microserv > > MDK wrote: > >> I've never been to any WISP or ISP "con" of any kind. Wanted to, but never >> had the dough to go. >> >> First, St Louis? Why? Go to Las Vegas and do it in early November. >> There's a cheap way to get to Vegas from anywhere in the US, especially at >> that time of the year. >> >> Heck, round trip from the pacific northwest is under 200 bucks. Also >> from most larger places in most states there's something cheap to Vegas. >> >> Rooms are cheap, travels's cheap, rental cars are $25 a day or less. >> >> St Louis is never going to be an option. Orlando, maybe - at least I own a >> timeshare there. Vegas, maybe.You want people to come? Go some >> place it doesn't cost an arm and leg to get to, stay at, or get home. >> >> Just my mumblings on a late Sunday evening. >> >> >> >> >> ++ >> Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy >> 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 >> ++ >> >> -- >> From: "Rick Harnish" >> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:28 PM >> To:; "'WISPA General List'" >> Subject: [WISPA] What are the Challenges? >> >> >> >>> Members and WISP followers, >>> >>> >>> >>> We would like to better understand some of the challenges that many of you >>> face on a daily basis as we continue to fine tune the Regional Meeting >>> Agenda. As you know the 1st Regional Meeting is scheduled for July 21st >>> and >>> 22nd in St. Louis. We have been pleasantly surprised at the response we >>> have >>> received from vendors in our industry in committing to exhibit at our >>> Regional Meeting. >>> >>> >>> >>> One thing we have noticed during the signup period is that many WISPs that >>> are attending are traveling long distances to come to St. Louis in the >>> first >>> stages of signup. We originally picked St. Louis because of its central >>> location in the US and because there are a tremendous amount of WISP >>> companies throughout the Central US. We really anticipated that 70% of >>> our >>> attendees at this meeting would come from a 500 mile radius from St. >>> Louis. >>> This does not seem to be the case and we find ourselves wondering why this >>> to be the case. >>> >>> >>> >>> My first inclination is to blame it on weather. I realize that weather in >>> the Central US has been extremely volatile this summer with persistent >>> storms continually moving across the region. I am asking if this is >>> really >>> the reason preventing many Midwestern WISPs from signing up for this >>> meeting >>> or not. If it is something else, I would like to investigate further. We >>> believe it is our obligation to the Vendors who have committed staff,
Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips
The easy resolve for that problem, if you have to have GFIs, is to add a small APC UPS after the GFI and use GOOD ones! _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 10:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] GFCI outlet trips GFCI's around here trip every time the lightning flashes. I won't use them to power radio gear. RickG wrote: Anyone had any issues with a GFCI outlet (not breaker) tripping? I've had several outages on this tower and want to stop it. Personally, I dont think the GFCI is necessary as the box is in a class 6 NEMA enclosure. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance! -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Airmax speed
With all of our testing... the NanoBridge is good for 4 to 6 miles... 8miles is a bit far for the NBM5 for that you may have better luck with NB-25 or the Powerbridge. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet& Telecom On 6/28/2010 12:03 PM, MDK wrote: > I put up a temporary install of a UBNT rocket / sector combination, and it's > at one of my regular AP spots, it sees quite a bit of noise. > > using a nanobridge as a cpe, and with only one other client online... I > was able, at 4 miles, to get an internal speed test of 120mbit.This is > using 40 mhz channel. > > It isn't "ideal' conditions, in fact, far from it, as the client end was > looking past an obstruction, in the form of foliage in the fresnel zone, and > the other end sees noise on what unused rf space there is around the -85 > to -90 range. > > I was able, using a 20 mhz channel, to get over 60 mbit throughput. > didn't realize until later I was partially sharing the spectrum with another > ap on the site. > > Impressive.Not so impressive is that at 8.2 miles, with the client just > peeking over the rooftop of the next door house, and through a tiny gap in > trees a block away, throughput is about 8-12 down and 1-5 up, varies at > times. 20 mhz channel. > > the internal speed test is used mostly for the speed tests at the short > client, as I didn't have a fast enough machine to shove that much data, and > using speedtest.net tests for the client at 8.2 miles. > > speed tests tended to raise the ping times from 1-6 ms to 8 to 20 ms, with > apparently some random noise caused long pings now and then. > > > > ++ > Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy > 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 > ++ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Airmax speed
TCP tests are typically about 60% to 75% of 'air' speed. By 'internal speed' test MDK is referring to built in radio to radio iperf test... Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet& Telecom On 6/28/2010 1:15 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote: > What about TCP? > > --- > Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer > Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik& WISP Support Services > Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net > LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of "Learn RouterOS" > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of MDK > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:03 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] Airmax speed > > > I put up a temporary install of a UBNT rocket / sector combination, and > it's at one of my regular AP spots, it sees quite a bit of noise. > > using a nanobridge as a cpe, and with only one other client online... > I > was able, at 4 miles, to get an internal speed test of 120mbit.This > is > using 40 mhz channel. > > It isn't "ideal' conditions, in fact, far from it, as the client end was > looking past an obstruction, in the form of foliage in the fresnel zone, > and the other end sees noise on what unused rf space there is around the > -85 to -90 range. > > I was able, using a 20 mhz channel, to get over 60 mbit throughput. > didn't realize until later I was partially sharing the spectrum with > another ap on the site. > > Impressive.Not so impressive is that at 8.2 miles, with the client > just > peeking over the rooftop of the next door house, and through a tiny gap > in trees a block away, throughput is about 8-12 down and 1-5 up, varies > at > times. 20 mhz channel. > > the internal speed test is used mostly for the speed tests at the short > client, as I didn't have a fast enough machine to shove that much data, > and using speedtest.net tests for the client at 8.2 miles. > > speed tests tended to raise the ping times from 1-6 ms to 8 to 20 ms, > with apparently some random noise caused long pings now and then. > > > > ++ > Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy > 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 > ++ > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Airmax speed
What about TCP? --- Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training - Author of "Learn RouterOS" -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Airmax speed I put up a temporary install of a UBNT rocket / sector combination, and it's at one of my regular AP spots, it sees quite a bit of noise. using a nanobridge as a cpe, and with only one other client online... I was able, at 4 miles, to get an internal speed test of 120mbit.This is using 40 mhz channel. It isn't "ideal' conditions, in fact, far from it, as the client end was looking past an obstruction, in the form of foliage in the fresnel zone, and the other end sees noise on what unused rf space there is around the -85 to -90 range. I was able, using a 20 mhz channel, to get over 60 mbit throughput. didn't realize until later I was partially sharing the spectrum with another ap on the site. Impressive.Not so impressive is that at 8.2 miles, with the client just peeking over the rooftop of the next door house, and through a tiny gap in trees a block away, throughput is about 8-12 down and 1-5 up, varies at times. 20 mhz channel. the internal speed test is used mostly for the speed tests at the short client, as I didn't have a fast enough machine to shove that much data, and using speedtest.net tests for the client at 8.2 miles. speed tests tended to raise the ping times from 1-6 ms to 8 to 20 ms, with apparently some random noise caused long pings now and then. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Airmax speed
I put up a temporary install of a UBNT rocket / sector combination, and it's at one of my regular AP spots, it sees quite a bit of noise. using a nanobridge as a cpe, and with only one other client online... I was able, at 4 miles, to get an internal speed test of 120mbit.This is using 40 mhz channel. It isn't "ideal' conditions, in fact, far from it, as the client end was looking past an obstruction, in the form of foliage in the fresnel zone, and the other end sees noise on what unused rf space there is around the -85 to -90 range. I was able, using a 20 mhz channel, to get over 60 mbit throughput. didn't realize until later I was partially sharing the spectrum with another ap on the site. Impressive.Not so impressive is that at 8.2 miles, with the client just peeking over the rooftop of the next door house, and through a tiny gap in trees a block away, throughput is about 8-12 down and 1-5 up, varies at times. 20 mhz channel. the internal speed test is used mostly for the speed tests at the short client, as I didn't have a fast enough machine to shove that much data, and using speedtest.net tests for the client at 8.2 miles. speed tests tended to raise the ping times from 1-6 ms to 8 to 20 ms, with apparently some random noise caused long pings now and then. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
