Re: [WISPA] Customer Usage

[Tom DeReggi]

I believe Excessive usage should be calculated by considering the average use.  
Ignore the top 5% and lower 5% users, then add up all those in between and 
divide by the number of subs considered, and taht will give a good average.  If 
50G is the average, its OK if one guy does 75, if its matched by a guy that 
only does 25. Thats what over subscription and averaging is all about.

Then you need to calculate your total available capacity. Then you need to 
calculate your "total" cost to deliver that capacity.  Until you have those 
numbers, you dont really know what you should charge for averge usage. Is 
average usage above or below your cost to deliver, from a per GB point of view? 
How much growth in average use can you tolerate, and still be profitable? I'd 
suggest doubleing average usage, and start charging extra per GB, once it 
exceeds that value of doubling average use.   

But even then, that misses the boat. You really need to define how many subs 
you want to be able to serve per sector, and then calaculate the maximum 
tolerable average use able to be accommodated on your technology. What ever 
that number is, you then need to compare it to what your current average use is.

When I calculate cost, I pretend I have half the badnwdit h that I have. If its 
a 10mb sector, I consider it 5mb. That allows the business model to work during 
growth phase, understanding that you'll need to upgrade to handle demand before 
a network is saturated. And factoring that a network works less good when 
operating at peak capacity, so leaving your self some headroom.

I dont actually carge people pe GB, but the math is all the same, whether the 
choice is to charge more when it reaches a threshold versus bandwdith limit 
when a threashold has been reached.

Another approach is to compare it to the cost of a movie.  For example, if 
Comcast charges $5 for a movie, and an average movie is 5GB large, then charge 
$1 per GB.
Make it a financial deission for the customer to choose video over Internet 
versus Dish/Comcast, so it is strictly a decission of convenience.

My point is, its not a generic answer what to charge. It reall dpends what your 
capacity and costs are, which can vary drastically for many reasons.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Andy Trimmell 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Customer Usage


  If your #2 user is using 37GB then I'd call anything above 75GB excessive. 
Our biggest package is 60GB and then charge $1 per GB over with a maximum of a 
$250 monthly bill. So in theory they can have an unlimited package for $250 a 
month J We have a guy that consistently goes to about 120gb per month. He pays 
for a business package which is $100 a month and he sometimes goes over $10 a 
something.

   

  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
Behalf Of David Hannum
  Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:37 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: [WISPA] Customer Usage

   

  What do you folks feel is "excessive" usage on your system?  And how do you 
deal with it?  Do you have bandwidth limits?  Where do you draw the line.  I 
have one residential sub  who month after month uses more bandwidth than the 
next 3-4 residential subs combined.  Last month, they used over 105GB.  Is this 
excessive?  The next top residential sub in the same month consumed 37GB (which 
in and of itself was 10GB higher than the next one).  

  With Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, etc, this may be the new normal . . .   

   

  Thoughts?

   

  Kind Regards,
  David Hannum

  New Era Broadband, LLC

   

   



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Re: [WISPA] Customer Usage

[Andy Trimmell]

If your #2 user is using 37GB then I'd call anything above 75GB
excessive. Our biggest package is 60GB and then charge $1 per GB over
with a maximum of a $250 monthly bill. So in theory they can have an
unlimited package for $250 a month J We have a guy that consistently
goes to about 120gb per month. He pays for a business package which is
$100 a month and he sometimes goes over $10 a something.

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David Hannum
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Customer Usage

 

What do you folks feel is "excessive" usage on your system?  And how do
you deal with it?  Do you have bandwidth limits?  Where do you draw the
line.  I have one residential sub  who month after month uses more
bandwidth than the next 3-4 residential subs combined.  Last month, they
used over 105GB.  Is this excessive?  The next top residential sub in
the same month consumed 37GB (which in and of itself was 10GB higher
than the next one).  

With Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, etc, this may be the new normal . . .   

 

Thoughts?

 

Kind Regards,
David Hannum

New Era Broadband, LLC

 

 




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Re: [WISPA] Problem with Access to Canopy network

[Greg Ihnen]

It might be better to use an even less frequently used block of RFC1918/IANA 
reserved address space. I'd avoid the ones that most home routers use 
out-of-the-box which is usually in the 192.168.x.x range. The 10.x.x.x and 
172.16.x.x are more virgin territory.

Greg
On Nov 10, 2011, at 9:28 AM, David Williamson wrote:

> Yes, it is most likely the LAN subnet on the radio that is causing the 
> problem.  Microsoft made 169.254.x.x subnets non-routable beginning with 
> Windows Vista operating system.  We had this problem about almost two years 
> ago and once we finally figured it out, we just changed all of our radio LAN 
> subnets from 169.254.1.x  to 192.168.10.x subnet and it 100% solved this 
> problem.
>  
> This problem only exists with firmware 9.5 or higher if memory serves me 
> correctly, because I remember we initially rolled back firmware and it solved 
> the issue “temporarily”, but the long-term fix was to change all the LAN 
> subnets on the NAT’d radios.
>  
> I hope this helps.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> David Williamson
> Owner
> Custom Computers & Winchester Wireless
> 2979 Valley Avenue
> Winchester, VA 22601
> http://www.customcomputersva.com
> http://www.winchesterwireless.com
> Work 1: 540.722.9688 x223
> Work 2: 540-665-0800 x223
> Toll Free Fax: 877-765-3700
> da...@customcomputersva.com
> da...@winchesterwireless.com
>  
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Scottie Arnett
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:52 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Problem with Access to Canopy network
>  
> Are you doing DHCP with the client radios? If so, I remember some having 
> problems if they used the 169.254.x.x private IP structure. Changing to 
> another private structure solved the problem.
>  
> Scottie Arnett
> President
> Info-Ed, Inc.
> Electronics and More
> 931-243-2101
> sarn...@info-ed.com
> - Original Message -
> From: rwall...@tigernet.us
> To: WISPA General List
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 7:07 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Problem with Access to Canopy network
>  
> To All,
>  
> I have a problem with about 15 users not able to access the net.  Their PC's 
> network icon, lower right on quick launch toolbar - MS, has a yellow triangle 
> w/!.  indicating that their ethernet interface has no access.  Each user has 
> MS7. 
>  
> This is specific to one tower location and three of the four sectors, 2 
> Canopy 900's w/180* sectors, 2 Canopy 2.4's w/ 180* sectors.  At first we 
> thought it was specific to MS7 Users, that is still the case.  However, not 
> all MS7 users.  The setup of all CPE & AP devices is the same.
>  
> We have reset one 900 to factory default and reconfig'd that device with no 
> affect on the ability to access the net.
>  
> Any suggestions, advice, questions or direction would be greatly appreciated.
>  
> Ron Wallace
> Hahnron, Inc. (Tigernet Internet)
> rwall...@tigernet.us
> Phone:517-547-8410
> Cel:517-740-0941
>  
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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> 
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] Customer Usage

[Steve Barnes]

Being in eastern Indiana 35 Miles from fiber we are bandwidth poor.  Soon to 
change but until we have a better situation.

$39.99 plan 1M/256K 20Gig/month $2/gig overage
$59.99 plan 2M/512K 50Gig/month $2/gig overage
$79.99 plan 3M/1M 100Gig/month $2/gig overage
$99.99 plan 5M/1M Unlimited

Big MUST!!! You must have a method in place for your customers to see their 
usage.  Daily/Week/Month  and previous months.

Steve Barnes
General Manager
PCS-WIN / RC-WiFi

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of David Hannum
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:37 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Customer Usage

What do you folks feel is "excessive" usage on your system?  And how do you 
deal with it?  Do you have bandwidth limits?  Where do you draw the line.  I 
have one residential sub  who month after month uses more bandwidth than the 
next 3-4 residential subs combined.  Last month, they used over 105GB.  Is this 
excessive?  The next top residential sub in the same month consumed 37GB (which 
in and of itself was 10GB higher than the next one).
With Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, etc, this may be the new normal . . .

Thoughts?

Kind Regards,
David Hannum
New Era Broadband, LLC





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Re: [WISPA] Problem with Access to Canopy network

[David Williamson]

Yes, it is most likely the LAN subnet on the radio that is causing the problem. 
 Microsoft made 169.254.x.x subnets non-routable beginning with Windows Vista 
operating system.  We had this problem about almost two years ago and once we 
finally figured it out, we just changed all of our radio LAN subnets from 
169.254.1.x  to 192.168.10.x subnet and it 100% solved this problem.

 

This problem only exists with firmware 9.5 or higher if memory serves me 
correctly, because I remember we initially rolled back firmware and it solved 
the issue “temporarily”, but the long-term fix was to change all the LAN 
subnets on the NAT’d radios.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

David Williamson
Owner

Custom Computers & Winchester Wireless

2979 Valley Avenue

Winchester, VA 22601

http://www.customcomputersva.com  

http://www.winchesterwireless.com  

Work 1: 540.722.9688 x223

Work 2: 540-665-0800 x223

Toll Free Fax: 877-765-3700

da...@customcomputersva.com  

da...@winchesterwireless.com  

 

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Scottie Arnett
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:52 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Problem with Access to Canopy network

 

Are you doing DHCP with the client radios? If so, I remember some having 
problems if they used the 169.254.x.x private IP structure. Changing to another 
private structure solved the problem.

 

Scottie Arnett
President
Info-Ed, Inc.
Electronics and More
931-243-2101
sarn...@info-ed.com

- Original Message - 

From: rwall...@tigernet.us 

To: WISPA General List   

Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 7:07 AM

Subject: [WISPA] Problem with Access to Canopy network

 

To All,

 

I have a problem with about 15 users not able to access the net.  Their 
PC's network icon, lower right on quick launch toolbar - MS, has a yellow 
triangle w/!.  indicating that their ethernet interface has no access.  Each 
user has MS7.  

 

This is specific to one tower location and three of the four sectors, 2 
Canopy 900's w/180* sectors, 2 Canopy 2.4's w/ 180* sectors.  At first we 
thought it was specific to MS7 Users, that is still the case.  However, not all 
MS7 users.  The setup of all CPE & AP devices is the same.

 

We have reset one 900 to factory default and reconfig'd that device 
with no affect on the ability to access the net.

 

Any suggestions, advice, questions or direction would be greatly 
appreciated.

 

Ron Wallace

Hahnron, Inc. (Tigernet Internet)

rwall...@tigernet.us

Phone:517-547-8410

Cel:517-740-0941

 







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Re: [WISPA] Problem with Access to Canopy network

[Scottie Arnett]

Are you doing DHCP with the client radios? If so, I remember some having 
problems if they used the 169.254.x.x private IP structure. Changing to another 
private structure solved the problem.

Scottie Arnett
President
Info-Ed, Inc.
Electronics and More
931-243-2101
sarn...@info-ed.com
  - Original Message - 
  From: rwall...@tigernet.us 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 7:07 AM
  Subject: [WISPA] Problem with Access to Canopy network


  To All,

  I have a problem with about 15 users not able to access the net.  Their PC's 
network icon, lower right on quick launch toolbar - MS, has a yellow triangle 
w/!.  indicating that their ethernet interface has no access.  Each user has 
MS7.  

  This is specific to one tower location and three of the four sectors, 2 
Canopy 900's w/180* sectors, 2 Canopy 2.4's w/ 180* sectors.  At first we 
thought it was specific to MS7 Users, that is still the case.  However, not all 
MS7 users.  The setup of all CPE & AP devices is the same.

  We have reset one 900 to factory default and reconfig'd that device with no 
affect on the ability to access the net.

  Any suggestions, advice, questions or direction would be greatly appreciated.

  Ron Wallace
  Hahnron, Inc. (Tigernet Internet)
  rwall...@tigernet.us
  Phone:517-547-8410
  Cel:517-740-0941



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Re: [WISPA] Customer Usage

[Mike Hammett]

I've been toying with the idea of UBB, but having something in the 50 - 
100 GB range be my bar.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 11/10/2011 7:36 AM, David Hannum wrote:
What do you folks feel is "excessive" usage on your system?  And how 
do you deal with it?  Do you have bandwidth limits?  Where do you draw 
the line.  I have one residential sub  who month after month uses more 
bandwidth than the next 3-4 residential subs combined.  Last month, 
they used over 105GB.  Is this excessive?  The next top residential 
sub in the same month consumed 37GB (which in and of itself was 10GB 
higher than the next one).

With Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, etc, this may be the new normal . . .
Thoughts?
Kind Regards,
David Hannum
New Era Broadband, LLC




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[WISPA] Customer Usage

[David Hannum]

What do you folks feel is "excessive" usage on your system?  And how do you
deal with it?  Do you have bandwidth limits?  Where do you draw the line.
I have one residential sub  who month after month uses more bandwidth than
the next 3-4 residential subs combined.  Last month, they used over 105GB.
Is this excessive?  The next top residential sub in the same month consumed
37GB (which in and of itself was 10GB higher than the next one).
With Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, etc, this may be the new normal . . .

Thoughts?

Kind Regards,
David Hannum
New Era Broadband, LLC



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Re: [WISPA] Real enemy

[Mike Hammett]

I'll posit that most WISPs can't deal with high volume data either.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



On 11/10/2011 7:01 AM, Bret Clark wrote:
> In the article "But users who use up a disproportionate share of mobile
> bandwidth are subject to getting the boot (after a series of warnings)
> if they don't rein in their heavy voice and data usage."
>
> And that's the crux of the problem with 3G/4G networks, so you're not
> dealing with the real problem for strained networks as you're still
> booting heavy users! Personally I've been trying to think of a way to
> take advantage of the pletheroia of smart phones and tablets growing
> each day. Much like ILEC's didn't get data growth on their networks back
> in the 90's, and arguably today, mobile carriers (with only slightly
> more of clue) are having just as hard of a time managing data growth.
> WISP on the other hand understand high volume data on wireless networks
> and how to best manage it, bring that expertise to smart phones/tablets
> and it's a compelling business story!
>
> Bret
>
>
> On 11/10/2011 02:30 AM, Blake Bowers wrote:
>> http://cooldudereal.blogspot.com/2011/11/new-wifi-minded-carrier-offers.html
>>
>>
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
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[WISPA] Problem with Access to Canopy network

[rwallace]

To All,
 
I have a problem with about 15 users not able to access the net.  Their PC's network icon, lower right on quick launch toolbar - MS, has a yellow triangle w/!.  indicating that their ethernet interface has no access.  Each user has MS7.  
 
This is specific to one tower location and three of the four sectors, 2 Canopy 900's w/180* sectors, 2 Canopy 2.4's w/ 180* sectors.  At first we thought it was specific to MS7 Users, that is still the case.  However, not all MS7 users.  The setup of all CPE & AP devices is the same.
 
We have reset one 900 to factory default and reconfig'd that device with no affect on the ability to access the net.
 
Any suggestions, advice, questions or direction would be greatly appreciated.
 
Ron Wallace
Hahnron, Inc. (Tigernet Internet)
rwall...@tigernet.us
Phone:517-547-8410
Cel:517-740-0941
 



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Re: [WISPA] Real enemy

[Bret Clark]

In the article "But users who use up a disproportionate share of mobile 
bandwidth are subject to getting the boot (after a series of warnings) 
if they don't rein in their heavy voice and data usage."

And that's the crux of the problem with 3G/4G networks, so you're not 
dealing with the real problem for strained networks as you're still 
booting heavy users! Personally I've been trying to think of a way to 
take advantage of the pletheroia of smart phones and tablets growing 
each day. Much like ILEC's didn't get data growth on their networks back 
in the 90's, and arguably today, mobile carriers (with only slightly 
more of clue) are having just as hard of a time managing data growth. 
WISP on the other hand understand high volume data on wireless networks 
and how to best manage it, bring that expertise to smart phones/tablets 
and it's a compelling business story!

Bret


On 11/10/2011 02:30 AM, Blake Bowers wrote:
> http://cooldudereal.blogspot.com/2011/11/new-wifi-minded-carrier-offers.html
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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