[WISPA] Ethernet over 328ft
The Ethernet spec is for a maximum cable run of 328ft. What is the the spec limits it to this distance, timing, cable resistance? I need to do an outdoor run of 350-400ft, not real keen on fiber as I then need to power a converter and I have doubts of a converter that will with stand the cold being available. It is a critical cable run. I don't need the full 100mb. Any feed back, ideas, or experience would be great. Erik -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ethernet over 328ft
Thanks for the feed back, It is a 340ft tower (no broadcasting!) with about a 15 ft run to the shack, so all tolled I should com in at 375-385 or so with just the arrestors at top and bottom then in to the poe and router. We always use a gell filled copper shielded cable and AMP jacks for tower work like this. The freznel zone is a bit tighter then I like so a few extra feet over the 300ft mark would make be feel much better about the link working as planed you just never can tell how tall those trees on the hill are when they're is 15 miles of bush to the nearest road! Erik Dennis Burgess wrote: Stick your tounge on it, see what happens. On 5/17/07, Russ Kreigh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We've had good luck with ferrite beads elsewhere. Not on this tower. We had a tone/probe cable tester that when you would plug the probe into the ethernet cable going up the tower, you could hear the radio station, on the cable tester speaker. Explain that one to me. -Russ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:50 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ethernet over 328ft the AM towers, the little farite ring or whatever it is, is worth its wait in gold. We are about 300 feet from a AM tower, the power 1000 watts, was enough for us to burn our fingers on the cat5 end without ether end plugged in! And I do mean, you start to smell burning skin, not good! Dennis On 5/17/07, Russ Kreigh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing to remember is that the spec also specifies that two patch cords may be used. A 90Meter Horizontal run, with 3M patch cord from the wall jack to the work area, and a 6M patch cord in the wiring closet. The extra two male plug/female jacks create an insertion loss of about 82ft, assuming top quality connections. This does not include the 110 IDC connectors for the patch panels, those also add significant insertion loss. So, there your close to 400ft, and, to a stretch, it's within the spec. The other is how long it takes the signal to get from one side of the wire to the other. And how many bit times it takes to detect a collision, which needs to happen within 512-bit times. So, just based on the math, you could get away with 672 feet. I've run FastEthernet farther than 100M many times. But, I also had to put in a switch at mid-point on 300ft cable run this week, too. It was an AM-tower though, I don't think it was the distance getting us, but the interference. So, if your on an interference free tower, use good cable, good ends, and good installation techniques and you'll be fine with 400ft. Thanks, -Russ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erik Jansson Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:01 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Ethernet over 328ft The Ethernet spec is for a maximum cable run of 328ft. What is the the spec limits it to this distance, timing, cable resistance? I need to do an outdoor run of 350-400ft, not real keen on fiber as I then need to power a converter and I have doubts of a converter that will with stand the cold being available. It is a critical cable run. I don't need the full 100mb. Any feed back, ideas, or experience would be great. Erik -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Dennis Burgess, MCP, CCNA, A+, N+, Mikrotik Certified Consultant www.mikrotikconsulting.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Best Linux desktop
A little of topic but I know there are a bunch of linux people out there. I'm attempting to use windoze as little a possible and want to move to a good linux desktop. Unfortunately many of my programs are windows based so live switching if possible would be nice. I here that Wine runs windoze stuff pretty well, any feed back would be great. I'm no linux guru so something that is easy to work with and learn. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] EVDO vs Wireless
I recently heard that on of the local cell providers is upgrading from x1 to EVDO. My question is for those of you who have EVDO in you area what if any impact it has had, what speeds are being delivered and what is the cost structure like. Thanks for the feed back Erik -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Pig tails
I'm looking for the best quality lowest loss pigtails, mostly ufl and mmcx to N female bulkhead. Who sells the best? I recall reading a post somewhere that some on on ebay made a top notch jumper... Any experiences would be appreciated. Erik -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900 MHz Help
Don't know what equipment you are using but rule of thumb is horizontal pol unless you in the middle of no where or you have scanned the spectrum. Small channel size (5mhz) 10 or 20)only if you are if you have done a spectrum scan to make sure things are clear. You will find a lot more interference on V pol but you have a better selection of antennas to choose from. Sectorize if possible and stay away from omni's if possible again to avoid interference, this will of course depend on you local environment. If your equipment allows, and your in a high interference area. consider decreasing your MTU size from 1500 to something small like 32 ... this will decrease your through put but more packets will get through in the presence of interference. Erik Jim Stout wrote: Folks, I'm just entering into the 900MHz space and would appreciate any advice on channel selection and channel width settings. TIA, Jim Jim Stout LTO Communications, LLC 15701 Henry Andrews Dr Pleasant Hill, MO 64080 (816) 305-1076 - Mobile (816) 497-0033 - Pager -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] MT Hotspot Configuration
Just a novice on the MT hotspot my self but the simplest way would be just to ftp up a replacement page for MT default login page. This way no proxy server or anything else is needed. Erik Mark Nash wrote: Hi All... I'm trying to configure an RB532A w/Mikrotik RouterOS. It seems there are a few ways to do what I'm trying to do, so I'm soliciting advice. I'm deploying this as a free hotspot - in a local restaurant to market my service. I'm wanting to allow the restaurant patron to freely connect to the AP, then show him/her an advertisement (maybe a page that makes them agree to terms of service then click OK) that shows them a little about my service, then allow them to get on the Internet to do what they want to do. How are you handling this with regards to Mikrotik RouterOS? Thanks in advance... Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax - Original Message - From: Forbes Mercy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:49 AM Subject: [WISPA] Final Form 477 Consideration Marlon, Prior to submitting my 477 today I want to ask you what we are trying to get out of the report. While I have over 500 wireless customers we sell the service as 128k even though 90 percent of them get over the 256 the feds ask about, but that's not what we're selling. In reality we only have 15 customers committed to over 256K. Am I trying to say Yes I can do over that amount? or here is what we actually sell. You tell me which would be better to report. Thanks, Forbes Mercy President - Washington Broadband, Inc. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] AC Power Tall tower and Lightning
Were looking at putting some gear (MT) up a 300 ft tower where the temps can hit -40 (with out the wind). As some of the equipment is not rated for these temps and we don't want to test them out either (tower climbing at that temp is a bitch), we are looking at a small heated enclosure. We can heat it at 48v and use the POE cable (any lower voltage and the current is to high for the wire pairs at those distances) or run some armored BX up the tower for 120vac. My concern is lighting or other discharges and frying the equipment at either end. What are the risks and would grounding the BX every 100ft (as per rules with coax) be enough to protect the equipment? Any feed back would be great. Erik -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Anyone using Power Noc
We are trying to decide on a billing and or monitoring package and came across Power Noc. It looks like a great package at a reasonable price, and does what we need as far as we can tell at this point. Has anyone else used this or a similar product? if yes what do you think, if no what are you using that preforms a similar function. http://www.powercode.com/isp_toolbox.php -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Grrrr... pigtails
Hate those things, don't know why anyone uses them. I'm up here in the great white north (Canada) and we can on ocations see temps as low as -40. I try and avoid the ufl;s but when I have to use them we always glue them down to the board to prevent them from coming off, I don't trust them at all. Erik Tom DeReggi wrote: T urns out our low loss u.fl to n-female pigtails with the thicker coax in the cold will revert shape and pull themselves off the cramped SR9 / WAR board combination. Excellent detail to bring up. Sounds like a fastener/tiedown problem to me. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:55 AM Subject: [WISPA] G... pigtails Thanksgiving day, my son and I put up a future customer's CPE up in the woods. I mean, up in the mountains, log cabin, beyond phone and power. They have a generator, batteries, solar panels, etc. We did it because snow was predicted and already a little bit had fallen. We got it there, link established and was working on aiming the antenna when the laptop ran out of power. The power plug on the laptop PSU had broken and, well... we were dead. The people got back a few days later, and by then, yes, quite a bit of snow had fallen. When we had the chance to go back and finish ( plug the power in inside, hook up thier equipment) we had no signal. We tried everything we could think of, short of changing parts, because we didn't take any (wasn't our install rig, just a 4x4 so we could get through the deep snow), no signal. Yesterday, after a few days of warm, we drove in ( this time, install rig, my '89 Caravan ) digging through some deep snow going in the canyon between them and the main road. Eventually, we changed every part, including the WAR board and SR9, no signal. Then, I assembled the WAR we took out and all the parts changed out, and standing there, on the ground... I had a solid link. Finally, in pitch black dark, I climbed the ladder, had someone provide some light, and hooked up the SR9 through another pigtail to the anntenna... POOF, signal. Put the original back on... Poof, signal. then, none. Work the pigtail around so it's not tensioned and in line and put it back on... Poof, signal. I go inside, log in...and in a minute or so, watch the signal fade to nothing. T urns out our low loss u.fl to n-female pigtails with the thicker coax in the cold will revert shape and pull themselves off the cramped SR9 / WAR board combination. I found one of the crapola thing things I had rejected for 5 ghz use and put it in place... Yeah, 1 or 2 db loss in the piggy, but it stayed on... Anyone make a low loss pigtail that's flexible even in the cold? I tried two different ones, one pacwireless, one is Roger's, I think. Neither could be convinced to retain a new shape in the cold... +++ neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington email me at mark at neofast dot net 541-969-8200 Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] high throughput backhaul options
We have done Dragon Wave with links over 20 miles at 18ghz. with 4 ft dishes.(23ghz is very low powered and would get you more then a few miles) We have seen a few minutes a year in rain fade as it is pushing the limits. There is now an high power unit that has about 10db more tx power then ours, they also have an 11GHz product which of course has fewer issues with heavy rain. Just be forewarned that a 4 or 6 foot dish at 18ghz has a beam width of less then 1deg and and fine tuning is time consuming and very touchy. They also have to be mounted on a very rigid structure so if it is going on a tower it has to be a hefty or the wind can easily play with your alignment. Excellent gear and service would recommend them. Erik Bob Moldashel wrote: 24 Ghz. won't do 5-10 miles. The other option is an Exalt 2.4 Ghz. or 5 Ghz radio. 100 Mb Full Duplex (Yes 2.4 Ghz.) for around $15-16K plus antennas -B- Matt Liotta wrote: John Scrivner wrote: Wow! Business must be good! That depends on your perspective. We have a ton of orders and are racing to service them all. The more we install the more capacity upgrades we have to do meaning even more installs. This kind of growth is extremely challenging because if it isn't done correctly we can destroy the company. Look at licensed. I know that is obvious but I think it is the only way short of bonding Orthogons together. I thought the max distance for 70 GHz gbps radios was about 7 miles. It has been a while since I read the specs. I am sure the rain fade would be an issue here. There is actually much less attenuation of 70 GHz than there is at 60 GHz. There is a spike of absorption of 60 GHz where water molecules eat that signal. It gets better above 60 GHz. I believe that you can go through the air better with as high as 100 GHz than what you can with 60 GHz. Obviously there are other licensed options in lower frequency space as well. I know Charles has some experience running licensed high capacity backhaul. Charles, what do you run for backhaul over 100 mbps FDX? Licensed doesn't make a lot of sense for us. We simply don't have the ability to predict where are growth is coming from. We routinely upgrade existing backhauls and/or reconnect our POPs together in different ways to increase our capacity and redundancy. With licensed we are forced to have a static configuration. I thought 24 GHz unlicensed had limited bandspace which made the top end about 100 mbps FDX? DragonWave seems to have a 24Ghz unlicensed product that can do 200Mbps full duplex. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Waverider
What do you want to know? Stability and software is excellent, great polling mechanism. 2mb Ethernet through put. I have seen them maintain a connection (in a clean rf environment) down to about -98db 10db below spec. Erik chris cooper wrote: So does anyone have the latest scoop on WaveRider? Stability, product pipeline etc. It seems like most of the old names/faces are gone. Chris -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Effect of Snow on 900
What type of antenna are you using a yagi or panel, what was your signal strength at install. Yagis, particularly the 17db by M2 is sensitive to snow/ice build up,it gets slightly detuned, their 14dbi antenna does better under those conditions. Panels of course are pretty much immune and I have heard but not tried some of the grids, but most don't have the performance of the M2. We found if the snow was wet and heavy enough will accumulate on trees, pines are the worst. We have seen drops of 10-20dbs with yagis and wet snow. The last people to recover were the one with a pine shelter belt. The only other possibility is water/ice intrusion in to a poorly sealed connector. If you are using the 3006 out door unit this is all a moot point and it is simply a heavy wet snow load that is causing the problems. I've been doing WR for almost 5 years so let me know if this does not help. Erik Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I put in a customer's CPE just as the snow season started at my customer's house in the mountains. They had around 2 inches of snow on the ground, and of course, some clung to the trees. They were gone for Thanksgiving weekend, and when they got back, it was a few days before I could get back to finish up inside. When I left, we had a nice solid link, though it went through quite a few trees right by the client end, at a total distance of about three miles, but the sky visible through the trees we had to run through. When I got back yesterday, we can't even see the AP on a site survey. The only difference is that now there's maybe a food of snow and of course, somewhat more stuck to the trees. Client and AP are both WAR boards with SR9's and 9 db yagi's. Does snow block 900 that effectively? Our testing showed earlier that in town, you can get a weak signal with a site survey even standing on the ground, through a mile or more of houses, trees, etc.We tried re-aiming, but nothing. Did I have something else go wrong, or does snow clinging to a few branches totally wipe out an additional 15 or more db of RSSI? +++ neofast.net - fast internet for North East Oregon and South East Washington email me at mark at neofast dot net 541-969-8200 Direct commercial inquiries to purchasing at neofast dot net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients
Each product has strength and weaknesses and what is best for a city wisp probably won't cut it for some one in the boonies. We use to use Trango but they moved there product closer to Moto and I for us that was the wrong direction. We also have many hundred Wave rider customers and even with some of its draw backs compared to newer products the software is great compared to Trango, you can solve almost any issue from you desktop where you need other tools or hardware to come close on a Trango. The Alvarion products I have used are top notch but their 900mhz is lacking in many ways. I would tend to side a bit with Patrick on a brand name network having a better resale value and potential as it is a know quantity where as a Mikrotik networks quality is harder to value as it depends more on the people who put it together. But just because your use M$ for your PC and network does not mean you have a better network or desktop when compared to Linux. It's just different. Mikrotik is not just about 802.11a/b/g which in most cases I try and avoid. They to have a proprietary protocol too that employs polling for P2MP and does away with may of the a/b/g issues. With Mikrotik you are not dependent on a single vendor and their stock issues, you can in most cases work around them. Think of it this way too. No multi thousand dollar spares sitting on a self getting dusty. If my main back haul, AP, Hotspot, etc. takes a lighting hit, I can convert my own client radio into a back haul or what ever and tune it to any frequency from 4.9ghz to 6ghz or just even grab an old 486 and a wireless nic from a local store and your up in only an hour or so longer then it takes to drive to the site. Due to the frequency rang available you also do not have to stock a selection of multi hundred dollar CPE's or multi thousand dollar APs' to cover different bands. About the only disadvantage I see in this is that I'm guessing that products like Alvarion MAY perform better in noisy environments as the frequency restriction on these products should in theory provide better selectivity then mPCI based cards... It would be interesting to test some things like adjacent channel rejection and other stuff that is never spec'ed by the vendors. Erik John Scrivner wrote: I have only seen this type of interference three times. Twice with Etherants and once with a Trango FOX. I have heard of other gear having similar issues from other WISPs. It usually effects over-the-air television or two-way radio communications located on the same tower as the data radio. I have heard of this type of interference a few times in regard to the RB532. I do not know if this particular board has a higher degree of this interference or if it is just a popular radio which has been identified to have similar issues. I do not have any RB532s in the field so I cannot speak to this one way or another for that particular product. I am guessing that some manufacturers have identified and resolved these issues prior to product release while others have not. From what I hear about the RB532 this is still an ongoing issue. I am also guessing that ferrite beads will at least diminish the level of noise for those who are dealing with this. Scriv Patrick Leary wrote: Very cool troubleshooting trick, but I've never heard of the problem. Is that wide spread John? Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 8:50 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients Many outside radios suffer from RF radiation over the Ethernet. I have personally seen this on the YDI Etherant and the Trango FOX. This problem is not specific to any one manufacturer. The cable acts as a transmit antenna, carrying the clock signals from internally to the outside. This can be largely corrected with the use of ferrite beads at the radio and POE injector on these radios. This is a low cost fix in many cases and I have personally seen a 16 db improvement in noise elimination using this approach. Just Google ferrite beads and I am sure you will find suppliers. I do not remember where we got ours but they were very inexpensive. I think we paid less than a dollar a piece for these. They are literally a snap to install. They snap together over the Ethernet wire. It takes seconds to install. Scriv Rick Smith wrote: I had the same problem with some canopy access points - had to do with Ethernet. I put an AP up on a tower, and it interfered with a HAM radio guy. Once I moved it down on the tower 20 feet, the problem went away. I put a 532 right next to that HAM'r and nothing happened, I've got a nice 5.8 gig feed and a 2.4 repeater there now... -Original Message- From:
