Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
Don't do that... create rule all-ptp = shape at 20kbps. That way they can't say it's being denied :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? Heres a solution create rule all-p2p = DROP Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC is proposing. If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing for us. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; _ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
With the encrypted stuff, that's really hard to do...even if it were a good idea. Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? Heres a solution create rule all-p2p = DROP Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC is proposing. If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing for us. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; _ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
Kurt, You can always do what we have since 2003, BAN all P2P traffic on the network. It is listed right in the first paragraph in our TOS and each customer is told upfront about it. I have turned off radios and I have even pulled radios because of it. I guess the most important issue is telling them up front BEFORE they sign up. P2P is the worst application that can be run on a network of half-duplex radios. I do have a few customers that use it for work related functions (Linux distro's etc.) that I allow to run. One of the main things that really PO's me is that some gaming CO's use P2P to distribute their patches and stuff. IMHO, the cheap [EMAIL PROTECTED] should buy a server and purchase some bandwidth instead of free loading on our networks. :o Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? Heres a solution create rule all-p2p = DROP Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC is proposing. If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing for us. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; _ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
Again, as I understand it I don't see this as any different than selling/offering one product, but delivering another. That is unethical and should be addressed. If you want to limit p2p traffic then fine, but it has to be disclosed as George has described earlier in this thread. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:15 AM To: WISPA General Liste Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Don't do that... create rule all-ptp = shape at 20kbps. That way they can't say it's being denied :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? Heres a solution create rule all-p2p = DROP Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC is proposing. If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing for us. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; _ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
I know it's been said already, but I didn't want to have a one-liner. They're not saying what you can and can't do, but to publicly say what you do as to not deceive your customers. It wasn't that Comcast shaped their traffic, but that they shaped and canceled account without saying what the parameters were. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! Speak for yourself. (By the way, I am speaking for myself, not for my boss, my employer, WISPA itself for whom I do occasional work, or anyone else. This is always the case, but I feel especially compelled to mention it here.) The day a legislature or court orders me to stop shaping p2p traffic, I'll dust off my resume, because the network will melt shortly thereafter, beyond my ability to repair. The inexpensive last-mile gear many smaller wireless operators use don't respond well to p2p traffic. Towers with fifty customers can be brought to their knees by ONE customer with an encrypted BitTorrent client, or Limewire, or other p2p software. (Every time this subject comes up, there's a bunch of just build out your network to handle the load du punters. As that isn't always feasible, given the limitations of small company budgets and the technology available within said budgets, let's just assume I don't have millions of dollars handy to do so.) My sole concern is keeping my network running as well as possible, given the limits of the budget and technology at my disposal. I don't care what you're downloading, and if I had a choice I wouldn't care about how you're downloading it. I don't even care whether it's for legal use. (And let's not kid ourselves on that point.) Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, the folks making these edicts aren't making the distinction between social and technical reasons for traffic shaping. David Smith WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
and I forgot to say what I was initially going to say... You may need better APs. I have 30+ customers on a single tower with more than one client running P2P applications (including BitTorrent) and everything works just fine. That said, my AP is a 4-radio 4-sector AP that is a PC running Mikrotik. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! Speak for yourself. (By the way, I am speaking for myself, not for my boss, my employer, WISPA itself for whom I do occasional work, or anyone else. This is always the case, but I feel especially compelled to mention it here.) The day a legislature or court orders me to stop shaping p2p traffic, I'll dust off my resume, because the network will melt shortly thereafter, beyond my ability to repair. The inexpensive last-mile gear many smaller wireless operators use don't respond well to p2p traffic. Towers with fifty customers can be brought to their knees by ONE customer with an encrypted BitTorrent client, or Limewire, or other p2p software. (Every time this subject comes up, there's a bunch of just build out your network to handle the load du punters. As that isn't always feasible, given the limitations of small company budgets and the technology available within said budgets, let's just assume I don't have millions of dollars handy to do so.) My sole concern is keeping my network running as well as possible, given the limits of the budget and technology at my disposal. I don't care what you're downloading, and if I had a choice I wouldn't care about how you're downloading it. I don't even care whether it's for legal use. (And let's not kid ourselves on that point.) Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, the folks making these edicts aren't making the distinction between social and technical reasons for traffic shaping. David Smith WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
Couldn't agree more...and who better to up sell such customers to the product they really need than their provider. This equals more $$$. I don't see this as a bad thing... Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Wolfe Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:39 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Kurt, You can always do what we have since 2003, BAN all P2P traffic on the network. It is listed right in the first paragraph in our TOS and each customer is told upfront about it. I have turned off radios and I have even pulled radios because of it. I guess the most important issue is telling them up front BEFORE they sign up. P2P is the worst application that can be run on a network of half-duplex radios. I do have a few customers that use it for work related functions (Linux distro's etc.) that I allow to run. One of the main things that really PO's me is that some gaming CO's use P2P to distribute their patches and stuff. IMHO, the cheap [EMAIL PROTECTED] should buy a server and purchase some bandwidth instead of free loading on our networks. :o Kurt Fankhauser wrote: Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? Heres a solution create rule all-p2p = DROP Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC is proposing. If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing for us. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; _ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
That won't work because some of the P2P programs only are identifiable when they log on and once they are running it would look like normal traffic. One program like this is Ares. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Smith, Rick Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 8:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Don't do that... create rule all-ptp = shape at 20kbps. That way they can't say it's being denied :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:38 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? Heres a solution create rule all-p2p = DROP Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC is proposing. If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing for us. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; _ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
The real problem is the number of connections. One client opening up 300-400 connections is going to cause all kinds of problems. Being able to limit connections is a pretty important item to be able to handle on a wireless network. Matt Larsen Vistabeam.com Mike Hammett wrote: and I forgot to say what I was initially going to say... You may need better APs. I have 30+ customers on a single tower with more than one client running P2P applications (including BitTorrent) and everything works just fine. That said, my AP is a 4-radio 4-sector AP that is a PC running Mikrotik. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! Speak for yourself. (By the way, I am speaking for myself, not for my boss, my employer, WISPA itself for whom I do occasional work, or anyone else. This is always the case, but I feel especially compelled to mention it here.) The day a legislature or court orders me to stop shaping p2p traffic, I'll dust off my resume, because the network will melt shortly thereafter, beyond my ability to repair. The inexpensive last-mile gear many smaller wireless operators use don't respond well to p2p traffic. Towers with fifty customers can be brought to their knees by ONE customer with an encrypted BitTorrent client, or Limewire, or other p2p software. (Every time this subject comes up, there's a bunch of just build out your network to handle the load du punters. As that isn't always feasible, given the limitations of small company budgets and the technology available within said budgets, let's just assume I don't have millions of dollars handy to do so.) My sole concern is keeping my network running as well as possible, given the limits of the budget and technology at my disposal. I don't care what you're downloading, and if I had a choice I wouldn't care about how you're downloading it. I don't even care whether it's for legal use. (And let's not kid ourselves on that point.) Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, the folks making these edicts aren't making the distinction between social and technical reasons for traffic shaping. David Smith WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
The real problem is the number of connections. One client opening up 300-400 connections is going to cause all kinds of problems. Being able to limit connections is a pretty important item to be able to handle on a wireless network. The other real problem is if these video on demand services have there way all your users upstream connections will be streaming out there content all day long. Unlike traditional servers that foot the bill for there own bandwidth. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
I'm not the network for my network. I do know that what we do is to limit the number of connections. Mike our admin has a script that runs, I'm assuming on a bsd box that probably handles nat, that closes some of those connections when a limit is reached. That is why on our network, if you have a public ip P2P works great, and if you are assigned a private, it's slow. Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: The real problem is the number of connections. One client opening up 300-400 connections is going to cause all kinds of problems. Being able to limit connections is a pretty important item to be able to handle on a wireless network. Matt Larsen Vistabeam.com Mike Hammett wrote: and I forgot to say what I was initially going to say... You may need better APs. I have 30+ customers on a single tower with more than one client running P2P applications (including BitTorrent) and everything works just fine. That said, my AP is a 4-radio 4-sector AP that is a PC running Mikrotik. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! Speak for yourself. (By the way, I am speaking for myself, not for my boss, my employer, WISPA itself for whom I do occasional work, or anyone else. This is always the case, but I feel especially compelled to mention it here.) The day a legislature or court orders me to stop shaping p2p traffic, I'll dust off my resume, because the network will melt shortly thereafter, beyond my ability to repair. The inexpensive last-mile gear many smaller wireless operators use don't respond well to p2p traffic. Towers with fifty customers can be brought to their knees by ONE customer with an encrypted BitTorrent client, or Limewire, or other p2p software. (Every time this subject comes up, there's a bunch of just build out your network to handle the load du punters. As that isn't always feasible, given the limitations of small company budgets and the technology available within said budgets, let's just assume I don't have millions of dollars handy to do so.) My sole concern is keeping my network running as well as possible, given the limits of the budget and technology at my disposal. I don't care what you're downloading, and if I had a choice I wouldn't care about how you're downloading it. I don't even care whether it's for legal use. (And let's not kid ourselves on that point.) Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, the folks making these edicts aren't making the distinction between social and technical reasons for traffic shaping. David Smith WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
Ugg, sorry, meant to say, I'm not the network admin George Rogato wrote: I'm not the network for my network. I do know that what we do is to limit the number of connections. Mike our admin has a script that runs, I'm assuming on a bsd box that probably handles nat, that closes some of those connections when a limit is reached. That is why on our network, if you have a public ip P2P works great, and if you are assigned a private, it's slow. Matt Larsen - Lists wrote: The real problem is the number of connections. One client opening up 300-400 connections is going to cause all kinds of problems. Being able to limit connections is a pretty important item to be able to handle on a wireless network. Matt Larsen Vistabeam.com Mike Hammett wrote: and I forgot to say what I was initially going to say... You may need better APs. I have 30+ customers on a single tower with more than one client running P2P applications (including BitTorrent) and everything works just fine. That said, my AP is a 4-radio 4-sector AP that is a PC running Mikrotik. -- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! Speak for yourself. (By the way, I am speaking for myself, not for my boss, my employer, WISPA itself for whom I do occasional work, or anyone else. This is always the case, but I feel especially compelled to mention it here.) The day a legislature or court orders me to stop shaping p2p traffic, I'll dust off my resume, because the network will melt shortly thereafter, beyond my ability to repair. The inexpensive last-mile gear many smaller wireless operators use don't respond well to p2p traffic. Towers with fifty customers can be brought to their knees by ONE customer with an encrypted BitTorrent client, or Limewire, or other p2p software. (Every time this subject comes up, there's a bunch of just build out your network to handle the load du punters. As that isn't always feasible, given the limitations of small company budgets and the technology available within said budgets, let's just assume I don't have millions of dollars handy to do so.) My sole concern is keeping my network running as well as possible, given the limits of the budget and technology at my disposal. I don't care what you're downloading, and if I had a choice I wouldn't care about how you're downloading it. I don't even care whether it's for legal use. (And let's not kid ourselves on that point.) Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, the folks making these edicts aren't making the distinction between social and technical reasons for traffic shaping. David Smith WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation;_ylt=Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC is proposing. If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing for us. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation;_ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? Heres a solution create rule all-p2p = DROP Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC is proposing. If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing for us. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; _ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
secretly we will have to be more explicit in our terms of service and our service offerings. I'm getting ready to redo my stuff anyways, but I'm going to spell it out. Till now I don't really say what speeds anyone is going to get exactly. It's up to, as fast as, and best effort. But I think to avoid having any liabilities or bad blood, I'm go to be explicit in exactly how slow certain applications go and how fast others are allowed. George Rogato wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation;_ylt=Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
I don't gather that the FCC is telling me what I can or can't do, but more that if I sell a product as A then I need to deliver A and not a watered down B product. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC is proposing. If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing for us. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation;_ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
I can agree with this approach. Encourage the providers with a lesser product to clearly illustrate they have a lesser product. Leave it to the consumer to decide if they want to pay for a better (non-limited) product or not, but don't let the lesser provider get away with selling one thing and providing another. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 10:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers secretly we will have to be more explicit in our terms of service and our service offerings. I'm getting ready to redo my stuff anyways, but I'm going to spell it out. Till now I don't really say what speeds anyone is going to get exactly. It's up to, as fast as, and best effort. But I think to avoid having any liabilities or bad blood, I'm go to be explicit in exactly how slow certain applications go and how fast others are allowed. George Rogato wrote: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation;_ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! Speak for yourself. (By the way, I am speaking for myself, not for my boss, my employer, WISPA itself for whom I do occasional work, or anyone else. This is always the case, but I feel especially compelled to mention it here.) The day a legislature or court orders me to stop shaping p2p traffic, I'll dust off my resume, because the network will melt shortly thereafter, beyond my ability to repair. The inexpensive last-mile gear many smaller wireless operators use don't respond well to p2p traffic. Towers with fifty customers can be brought to their knees by ONE customer with an encrypted BitTorrent client, or Limewire, or other p2p software. (Every time this subject comes up, there's a bunch of just build out your network to handle the load du punters. As that isn't always feasible, given the limitations of small company budgets and the technology available within said budgets, let's just assume I don't have millions of dollars handy to do so.) My sole concern is keeping my network running as well as possible, given the limits of the budget and technology at my disposal. I don't care what you're downloading, and if I had a choice I wouldn't care about how you're downloading it. I don't even care whether it's for legal use. (And let's not kid ourselves on that point.) Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, the folks making these edicts aren't making the distinction between social and technical reasons for traffic shaping. David Smith WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
I can appreciate your position and I think George has hit it squarely on the head. Simply state exactly what your service is going to provide...nothing more and nothing less. I think the FCC is more interested in providers possibly bait and switching the consumer than they are at regulating our networks. I could be wrong...but I know if the cable and DSL companies had to clearly state they will limit their customers usage on certain applications it will make our sales efforts easier. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! Speak for yourself. (By the way, I am speaking for myself, not for my boss, my employer, WISPA itself for whom I do occasional work, or anyone else. This is always the case, but I feel especially compelled to mention it here.) The day a legislature or court orders me to stop shaping p2p traffic, I'll dust off my resume, because the network will melt shortly thereafter, beyond my ability to repair. The inexpensive last-mile gear many smaller wireless operators use don't respond well to p2p traffic. Towers with fifty customers can be brought to their knees by ONE customer with an encrypted BitTorrent client, or Limewire, or other p2p software. (Every time this subject comes up, there's a bunch of just build out your network to handle the load du punters. As that isn't always feasible, given the limitations of small company budgets and the technology available within said budgets, let's just assume I don't have millions of dollars handy to do so.) My sole concern is keeping my network running as well as possible, given the limits of the budget and technology at my disposal. I don't care what you're downloading, and if I had a choice I wouldn't care about how you're downloading it. I don't even care whether it's for legal use. (And let's not kid ourselves on that point.) Unfortunately, as near as I can tell, the folks making these edicts aren't making the distinction between social and technical reasons for traffic shaping. David Smith WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
Exactly my feelings! Travis Johnson wrote: Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC is proposing. If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing for us. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation;_ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
Agreed. This comes to a shock to me that the FCC would even think of going here. Just wait until the MPAA and RIAA catch wind of this. I know torrents can be used to distribute legal content, but I bet my WISP if all of us saw what was actually going through the torrents...that 98% would be illegal copyrighted material. When they send someone to me with a CALEA complaint of copyright distribution, I am going to tell them they are SOL, the FCC says I can't watch and manage the traffic across my network. This hurts the rural ISP more than the others. I thought the FCC wanted to foster broadband deployment in rural areas? We pay over $1300/mth for 2 x T1 here from ACC, the cheapest place I can get it. There is NO ACCESS to fiber, unless I can figure out a way to backhaul it wirelessly over 50 miles of jumping hills. WTG FCC, Sorry for my flaming, but they are getting more stupid in DC by the day. Scott -- Original Message -- From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 21:21:10 -0700 Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC is proposing. If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing for us. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation;_ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers
You should watch what you say, it might happen, or something close. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/02/ms_fat.html On 2/26/08, Kurt Fankhauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right, it's unregulated business, if the customers don't like it then go find another provider, where will it stop? Next they will fine restaurants for cutting back on the grease in foods for the reason that we should be getting all the unhealthy grease equally? Heres a solution create rule all-p2p = DROP Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers Except that I am a private company, and don't feel the FCC should be telling me what I can and can't do. I don't take government money, grants, funding, etc. therefore I don't think they should have ANY say in what I do with MY company. Travis Microserv Brad Belton wrote: I see this as a good thing. We don't really care what our users do with the bandwidth they buy from us as long as it's legal. Bandwidth hungry applications are good for our model as the more they need the more they buy. I don't see that as a bad thing for our bottom line! I do see this hurting the flagrant oversubscription models the cable and DSL companies use and that is why they are at the forefront against what the FCC is proposing. If the FCC slaps a few fines on a couple cable companies for manipulating the bandwidth their customers are paying for then they will probably begin to start raising their prices. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing for us. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 6:44 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Uh-Oh, they are ready to discipline Internet service providers http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080225/ap_on_hi_te/fcc_internet_regulation; _ylt =Amemx2yVrJg63gF8aZg0fzQjtBAF Federal regulators on Monday said they are ready to discipline Internet service providers who secretly favor certain types of data traffic, like Web surfing, over others, like file sharing. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
