Re: [WISPA] here it come$
If you have Time Warner IPs and Time Warner allows you to send EPSN360 traffic down their pipe on those IPs you might be able to use that situation to solve this problem. For example, for a time, I was operating with redundant feeds (two different internet providers) one of which allowed access to a usenet server and the other which did not. I built rules into Mikrotik to NAT all usenet traffic behind one of the IPs that had usenet access. If you have an decent router in the mix and know how to program it AND if ESPN360 emanates from a specific IP range or TCP/UDP port, you could easily build a few NAT'ing rules that would send ESPN360 requests out the Time Warner IPs even for your business subs (of course this will put a load on your Time Warner pipe). Regards, Larry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ As a follow up, I found out why I havent had any ESPN360 requests before now. This request came from a business account that uses my public ip addresses. My residential subs are proxied out and show up on my Time Warner IP. Since Time Warner is on the ESPN list, it works. And I was all excited to switch everyone to my IP addys. Maybe not such a good idea now! -RickG On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 1:57 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
Thats the ticket :) Thanks! On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Larry Yunker leyun...@wispadvantage.com wrote: If you have Time Warner IPs and Time Warner allows you to send EPSN360 traffic down their pipe on those IPs you might be able to use that situation to solve this problem. For example, for a time, I was operating with redundant feeds (two different internet providers) one of which allowed access to a usenet server and the other which did not. I built rules into Mikrotik to NAT all usenet traffic behind one of the IPs that had usenet access. If you have an decent router in the mix and know how to program it AND if ESPN360 emanates from a specific IP range or TCP/UDP port, you could easily build a few NAT'ing rules that would send ESPN360 requests out the Time Warner IPs even for your business subs (of course this will put a load on your Time Warner pipe). Regards, Larry -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ As a follow up, I found out why I havent had any ESPN360 requests before now. This request came from a business account that uses my public ip addresses. My residential subs are proxied out and show up on my Time Warner IP. Since Time Warner is on the ESPN list, it works. And I was all excited to switch everyone to my IP addys. Maybe not such a good idea now! -RickG On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 1:57 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
Computer Inquiry Acts = CIA -- Original Message -- From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com Reply-To: sarn...@info-ed.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:34:12 -0600 EXACTLY! Good old Computer Inquires Acts! Wish they were still valid? and/or enforced...and had an FCC enforcement bureau to keep it true. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Larry Yunker leyun...@wispadvantage.com Reply-To: leyun...@wispadvantage.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:38:44 -0500 RANT Gee, now this (ESPN Live 360) won't make the Cable-Op internet providers have an unfair advantage over traditional ISPs! You have to imagine that the cable-op's are negotiating this internet service into their network programming agreements with EPSN, whereas if you are a non-cable-op you will have to pay outright and separate for the service and then pass along that fee to all of your subscribers or more likely... eat the cost. This is another case where a utility is able to abuse its monopoly power to the disadvantage of a non-utility ISP. The regulated and non-regulated portions of a company that engages in internet service need to be forced to conduct business as arms-length transactions. For instance... if MegaCableCompany operates as a Cable TV provider and operates as an internet provider, the Cable TV provider business unit is regulated and enjoys an advantage as a utility, whereas the Internet Provider Business Unit is unregulated and operates in an open market. The Cable TV unit is free to negotiate terms for TV programming from the various networks. The Internet Unit is free to negotiate terms of service for internet related valued-added-services. Whereas, the Cable TV unit should not be permitted to negotiate terms for unrelated internet services. (i.e. ESPN Live 360). The CableTV unit as a utility providing TV service should have no interest in internet valued added services. However, in the alternative... if the Cable TV unit were permitted to negotiate terms for unrelated internet services, it should be prepared to offer those services to the open market at the same rate that it charges its own Internet Service Business Unit!! Of course.. this argument may sound familiar to some of you... I've made this same argument time and time again for the unbundling of network elements within the TelCo monopolies. If you sell phone service as a utility, your associated unregulated ISP business unit should not enjoy preferential pricing with regards to internet transport or internet termination. /RANT Larry Yunker -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
One of these days *someone* is going to find a way to create a network to compete with ESPN and things will get a lot nicer! Fox Sports Northwest, out here, gets watched a LOT more than ESPN these days. marlon - Original Message - From: jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com To: leyun...@wispadvantage.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 02:38:44PM -0500, Larry Yunker wrote: RANT Gee, now this (ESPN Live 360) won't make the Cable-Op internet providers have an unfair advantage over traditional ISPs! You have to imagine that the cable-op's are negotiating this internet service into their network programming agreements with EPSN, whereas if you are a non-cable-op you will have to pay outright and separate for the service and then pass along that fee to all of your subscribers or more likely... eat the cost. My understanding is that ESPN is the 800 pound gorilla here. You can't sell non-basic cable if you don't have ESPN. ESPN is reported to get $4/customer/month from the cable companies for providing the television programming it does. Things like this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/29/business/media/29cable.html happen all the time where the broadcasters and operators can't agree over money and threaten to shut off your favorite channels. A cable company might be persuaded to get espn360 to hedge their position incase they were afraid of hardball negotiations over their cable channel costs. It wounldn't be all or nothing with ESPN if they offered espn360. If they can't provide something, the customers will go straight to dish or directv. I'm not sticking up for the cable companies here. Those participating might also see the Internet as simply a conduit for proprietary and costly entertainment, which is a travesty in it's own right. That is something to rant about. This is another case where a utility is able to abuse its monopoly power to the disadvantage of a non-utility ISP. The regulated and non-regulated portions of a company that engages in internet service need to be forced to conduct business as arms-length transactions. For instance... if MegaCableCompany operates as a Cable TV provider and operates as an internet provider, the Cable TV provider business unit is regulated and enjoys an advantage as a utility, whereas the Internet Provider Business Unit is unregulated and operates in an open market. The Cable TV unit is free to negotiate terms for TV programming from the various networks. The Internet Unit is free to negotiate terms of service for internet related valued-added-services. Whereas, the Cable TV unit should not be permitted to negotiate terms for unrelated internet services. (i.e. ESPN Live 360). The CableTV unit as a utility providing TV service should have no interest in internet valued added services. However, in the alternative... if the Cable TV unit were permitted to negotiate terms for unrelated internet services, it should be prepared to offer those services to the open market at the same rate that it charges its own Internet Service Business Unit!! Of course.. this argument may sound familiar to some of you... I've made this same argument time and time again for the unbundling of network elements within the TelCo monopolies. If you sell phone service as a utility, your associated unregulated ISP business unit should not enjoy preferential pricing with regards to internet transport or internet termination. /RANT Larry Yunker -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
This is interesting: http://www.seizethepage.com/how-to-watch-espn360-if-it-is-not-provided-through-your-isp/ On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: One of these days *someone* is going to find a way to create a network to compete with ESPN and things will get a lot nicer! Fox Sports Northwest, out here, gets watched a LOT more than ESPN these days. marlon - Original Message - From: jp j...@saucer.midcoast.com To: leyun...@wispadvantage.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 02:38:44PM -0500, Larry Yunker wrote: RANT Gee, now this (ESPN Live 360) won't make the Cable-Op internet providers have an unfair advantage over traditional ISPs! You have to imagine that the cable-op's are negotiating this internet service into their network programming agreements with EPSN, whereas if you are a non-cable-op you will have to pay outright and separate for the service and then pass along that fee to all of your subscribers or more likely... eat the cost. My understanding is that ESPN is the 800 pound gorilla here. You can't sell non-basic cable if you don't have ESPN. ESPN is reported to get $4/customer/month from the cable companies for providing the television programming it does. Things like this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/29/business/media/29cable.html happen all the time where the broadcasters and operators can't agree over money and threaten to shut off your favorite channels. A cable company might be persuaded to get espn360 to hedge their position incase they were afraid of hardball negotiations over their cable channel costs. It wounldn't be all or nothing with ESPN if they offered espn360. If they can't provide something, the customers will go straight to dish or directv. I'm not sticking up for the cable companies here. Those participating might also see the Internet as simply a conduit for proprietary and costly entertainment, which is a travesty in it's own right. That is something to rant about. This is another case where a utility is able to abuse its monopoly power to the disadvantage of a non-utility ISP. The regulated and non-regulated portions of a company that engages in internet service need to be forced to conduct business as arms-length transactions. For instance... if MegaCableCompany operates as a Cable TV provider and operates as an internet provider, the Cable TV provider business unit is regulated and enjoys an advantage as a utility, whereas the Internet Provider Business Unit is unregulated and operates in an open market. The Cable TV unit is free to negotiate terms for TV programming from the various networks. The Internet Unit is free to negotiate terms of service for internet related valued-added-services. Whereas, the Cable TV unit should not be permitted to negotiate terms for unrelated internet services. (i.e. ESPN Live 360). The CableTV unit as a utility providing TV service should have no interest in internet valued added services. However, in the alternative... if the Cable TV unit were permitted to negotiate terms for unrelated internet services, it should be prepared to offer those services to the open market at the same rate that it charges its own Internet Service Business Unit!! Of course.. this argument may sound familiar to some of you... I've made this same argument time and time again for the unbundling of network elements within the TelCo monopolies. If you sell phone service as a utility, your associated unregulated ISP business unit should not enjoy preferential pricing with regards to internet transport or internet termination. /RANT Larry Yunker -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:20 PM, RickG wrote: Actually, yes, this is the first I've heard about it. Obviously, I'm not a sports fan :) I was initially surprised you hadn't heard of it before too because you're pretty active on list and it's been discussed numerous times and in detail over the past 15 months but maybe it was on another list (the WISPA members list?). Or, like the Form 477 discussions a few years ago that I personally skipped over for a long time, maybe it was just an ignored thread topic (given our propensity to not start new threads for new topics, that wouldn't be surprising). Most of us heard of it either due to customer complaints or because of the list discussion. For what it's worth, I honestly don't think the industry will ever move en-mass to a pay-by-the-bit model. True, it makes the most sense from an operator standpoint, but it's just too easy to get undercut by a competitor who doesn't do it, the big companies that would have to do it first for it to go mainstream invariably chicken out too quickly or mess it up by doing it in a high-handed fashion that pisses everyone off, or politicians will get involved to defeat the model. That's *my* prediction. Chuck I've never had a customer request. I've have mixed feelings about this. Coming from the cable world, I was used to paying providers for channel content. The difference was, we didnt have to pay for bandwidth. Now, everyone wants to ride the bandwidth that we pay for to get to our customer. Maybe big bad ESPN should pay us? .05/sub/month doesnt sound like much but it adds up real fast. Worse yet, you still pay even though not everyone wants or needs it. Oh, and just what we need, another paper to fill out. I've been predicting since '97 that we'll have to charge the billing model to charge by the bit and that day is getting closer each time things like this occur. -RickG BTW: I did dial-up back in '93 and never paid for a TCP/IP stack or the Browser :) On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com wrote: I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
We have a fiber link to ATT. All of our ESPN360 traffic goes across that fiber. It says provided by ATT but that's not a big deal to me if it saves me $500-1000/mth. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 11:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:20 PM, RickG wrote: Actually, yes, this is the first I've heard about it. Obviously, I'm not a sports fan :) I was initially surprised you hadn't heard of it before too because you're pretty active on list and it's been discussed numerous times and in detail over the past 15 months but maybe it was on another list (the WISPA members list?). Or, like the Form 477 discussions a few years ago that I personally skipped over for a long time, maybe it was just an ignored thread topic (given our propensity to not start new threads for new topics, that wouldn't be surprising). Most of us heard of it either due to customer complaints or because of the list discussion. For what it's worth, I honestly don't think the industry will ever move en-mass to a pay-by-the-bit model. True, it makes the most sense from an operator standpoint, but it's just too easy to get undercut by a competitor who doesn't do it, the big companies that would have to do it first for it to go mainstream invariably chicken out too quickly or mess it up by doing it in a high-handed fashion that pisses everyone off, or politicians will get involved to defeat the model. That's *my* prediction. Chuck I've never had a customer request. I've have mixed feelings about this. Coming from the cable world, I was used to paying providers for channel content. The difference was, we didnt have to pay for bandwidth. Now, everyone wants to ride the bandwidth that we pay for to get to our customer. Maybe big bad ESPN should pay us? .05/sub/month doesnt sound like much but it adds up real fast. Worse yet, you still pay even though not everyone wants or needs it. Oh, and just what we need, another paper to fill out. I've been predicting since '97 that we'll have to charge the billing model to charge by the bit and that day is getting closer each time things like this occur. -RickG BTW: I did dial-up back in '93 and never paid for a TCP/IP stack or the Browser :) On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com wrote: I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
Chuck, You're perceptive on the reasons I didnt hear of it, I probably just didnt pay attention as it didnt seem to apply or it just got lost in all the topics. As I've mentioned before, I did pay by the bit back in '98 when I was GM at a small cable co. I only imposed it on bandwidth hogs and it worked well. The reason I havent switched to it with this company is that so far its not worth the hassle. With that said, I'll see your prediction and raise you:) TCP/IP will eventually be the only pipe for all communications. Once that happens, the cable co will utilize their billing model for television. It may not be bill by the bit but they will certainly charge a premium for advanced services. -RickG On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com wrote: On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:20 PM, RickG wrote: Actually, yes, this is the first I've heard about it. Obviously, I'm not a sports fan :) I was initially surprised you hadn't heard of it before too because you're pretty active on list and it's been discussed numerous times and in detail over the past 15 months but maybe it was on another list (the WISPA members list?). Or, like the Form 477 discussions a few years ago that I personally skipped over for a long time, maybe it was just an ignored thread topic (given our propensity to not start new threads for new topics, that wouldn't be surprising). Most of us heard of it either due to customer complaints or because of the list discussion. For what it's worth, I honestly don't think the industry will ever move en-mass to a pay-by-the-bit model. True, it makes the most sense from an operator standpoint, but it's just too easy to get undercut by a competitor who doesn't do it, the big companies that would have to do it first for it to go mainstream invariably chicken out too quickly or mess it up by doing it in a high-handed fashion that pisses everyone off, or politicians will get involved to defeat the model. That's *my* prediction. Chuck I've never had a customer request. I've have mixed feelings about this. Coming from the cable world, I was used to paying providers for channel content. The difference was, we didnt have to pay for bandwidth. Now, everyone wants to ride the bandwidth that we pay for to get to our customer. Maybe big bad ESPN should pay us? .05/sub/month doesnt sound like much but it adds up real fast. Worse yet, you still pay even though not everyone wants or needs it. Oh, and just what we need, another paper to fill out. I've been predicting since '97 that we'll have to charge the billing model to charge by the bit and that day is getting closer each time things like this occur. -RickG BTW: I did dial-up back in '93 and never paid for a TCP/IP stack or the Browser :) On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com wrote: I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
Thats what I figured out here. My proxied traffic going through my TW connection is fine, its just the customers on my public ip's that wont work. So, you're rerouting the ESPN360 traffic? Thats a good workaround! On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Chuck Hogg ch...@shelbybb.com wrote: We have a fiber link to ATT. All of our ESPN360 traffic goes across that fiber. It says provided by ATT but that's not a big deal to me if it saves me $500-1000/mth. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2010 11:21 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:20 PM, RickG wrote: Actually, yes, this is the first I've heard about it. Obviously, I'm not a sports fan :) I was initially surprised you hadn't heard of it before too because you're pretty active on list and it's been discussed numerous times and in detail over the past 15 months but maybe it was on another list (the WISPA members list?). Or, like the Form 477 discussions a few years ago that I personally skipped over for a long time, maybe it was just an ignored thread topic (given our propensity to not start new threads for new topics, that wouldn't be surprising). Most of us heard of it either due to customer complaints or because of the list discussion. For what it's worth, I honestly don't think the industry will ever move en-mass to a pay-by-the-bit model. True, it makes the most sense from an operator standpoint, but it's just too easy to get undercut by a competitor who doesn't do it, the big companies that would have to do it first for it to go mainstream invariably chicken out too quickly or mess it up by doing it in a high-handed fashion that pisses everyone off, or politicians will get involved to defeat the model. That's *my* prediction. Chuck I've never had a customer request. I've have mixed feelings about this. Coming from the cable world, I was used to paying providers for channel content. The difference was, we didnt have to pay for bandwidth. Now, everyone wants to ride the bandwidth that we pay for to get to our customer. Maybe big bad ESPN should pay us? .05/sub/month doesnt sound like much but it adds up real fast. Worse yet, you still pay even though not everyone wants or needs it. Oh, and just what we need, another paper to fill out. I've been predicting since '97 that we'll have to charge the billing model to charge by the bit and that day is getting closer each time things like this occur. -RickG BTW: I did dial-up back in '93 and never paid for a TCP/IP stack or the Browser :) On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com wrote: I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
chuckle Well, for what it's worth I hope *you* are right and *I* am wrong ;-). Damn I hate betting against the outcome I _want_ to see! Chuck On Mar 13, 2010, at 11:37 AM, RickG wrote: Chuck, You're perceptive on the reasons I didnt hear of it, I probably just didnt pay attention as it didnt seem to apply or it just got lost in all the topics. As I've mentioned before, I did pay by the bit back in '98 when I was GM at a small cable co. I only imposed it on bandwidth hogs and it worked well. The reason I havent switched to it with this company is that so far its not worth the hassle. With that said, I'll see your prediction and raise you:) TCP/IP will eventually be the only pipe for all communications. Once that happens, the cable co will utilize their billing model for television. It may not be bill by the bit but they will certainly charge a premium for advanced services. -RickG On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com wrote: On Mar 12, 2010, at 11:20 PM, RickG wrote: Actually, yes, this is the first I've heard about it. Obviously, I'm not a sports fan :) I was initially surprised you hadn't heard of it before too because you're pretty active on list and it's been discussed numerous times and in detail over the past 15 months but maybe it was on another list (the WISPA members list?). Or, like the Form 477 discussions a few years ago that I personally skipped over for a long time, maybe it was just an ignored thread topic (given our propensity to not start new threads for new topics, that wouldn't be surprising). Most of us heard of it either due to customer complaints or because of the list discussion. For what it's worth, I honestly don't think the industry will ever move en-mass to a pay-by-the-bit model. True, it makes the most sense from an operator standpoint, but it's just too easy to get undercut by a competitor who doesn't do it, the big companies that would have to do it first for it to go mainstream invariably chicken out too quickly or mess it up by doing it in a high-handed fashion that pisses everyone off, or politicians will get involved to defeat the model. That's *my* prediction. Chuck I've never had a customer request. I've have mixed feelings about this. Coming from the cable world, I was used to paying providers for channel content. The difference was, we didnt have to pay for bandwidth. Now, everyone wants to ride the bandwidth that we pay for to get to our customer. Maybe big bad ESPN should pay us? .05/sub/month doesnt sound like much but it adds up real fast. Worse yet, you still pay even though not everyone wants or needs it. Oh, and just what we need, another paper to fill out. I've been predicting since '97 that we'll have to charge the billing model to charge by the bit and that day is getting closer each time things like this occur. -RickG BTW: I did dial-up back in '93 and never paid for a TCP/IP stack or the Browser :) On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com wrote: I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
LOL, good one. -- Original Message -- From: Stuart Pierce spie...@avolve.net Reply-To: spie...@avolve.net Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 07:50:30 -0500 Computer Inquiry Acts = CIA -- Original Message -- From: Scottie Arnett sarn...@info-ed.com Reply-To: sarn...@info-ed.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 20:34:12 -0600 EXACTLY! Good old Computer Inquires Acts! Wish they were still valid? and/or enforced...and had an FCC enforcement bureau to keep it true. Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Larry Yunker leyun...@wispadvantage.com Reply-To: leyun...@wispadvantage.com, WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:38:44 -0500 RANT Gee, now this (ESPN Live 360) won't make the Cable-Op internet providers have an unfair advantage over traditional ISPs! You have to imagine that the cable-op's are negotiating this internet service into their network programming agreements with EPSN, whereas if you are a non-cable-op you will have to pay outright and separate for the service and then pass along that fee to all of your subscribers or more likely... eat the cost. This is another case where a utility is able to abuse its monopoly power to the disadvantage of a non-utility ISP. The regulated and non-regulated portions of a company that engages in internet service need to be forced to conduct business as arms-length transactions. For instance... if MegaCableCompany operates as a Cable TV provider and operates as an internet provider, the Cable TV provider business unit is regulated and enjoys an advantage as a utility, whereas the Internet Provider Business Unit is unregulated and operates in an open market. The Cable TV unit is free to negotiate terms for TV programming from the various networks. The Internet Unit is free to negotiate terms of service for internet related valued-added-services. Whereas, the Cable TV unit should not be permitted to negotiate terms for unrelated internet services. (i.e. ESPN Live 360). The CableTV unit as a utility providing TV service should have no interest in internet valued added services. However, in the alternative... if the Cable TV unit were permitted to negotiate terms for unrelated internet services, it should be prepared to offer those services to the open market at the same rate that it charges its own Internet Service Business Unit!! Of course.. this argument may sound familiar to some of you... I've made this same argument time and time again for the unbundling of network elements within the TelCo monopolies. If you sell phone service as a utility, your associated unregulated ISP business unit should not enjoy preferential pricing with regards to internet transport or internet termination. /RANT Larry Yunker -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $30.00/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information. WISPA Wants You! Join
[WISPA] here it come$
The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
RANT Gee, now this (ESPN Live 360) won't make the Cable-Op internet providers have an unfair advantage over traditional ISPs! You have to imagine that the cable-op's are negotiating this internet service into their network programming agreements with EPSN, whereas if you are a non-cable-op you will have to pay outright and separate for the service and then pass along that fee to all of your subscribers or more likely... eat the cost. This is another case where a utility is able to abuse its monopoly power to the disadvantage of a non-utility ISP. The regulated and non-regulated portions of a company that engages in internet service need to be forced to conduct business as arms-length transactions. For instance... if MegaCableCompany operates as a Cable TV provider and operates as an internet provider, the Cable TV provider business unit is regulated and enjoys an advantage as a utility, whereas the Internet Provider Business Unit is unregulated and operates in an open market. The Cable TV unit is free to negotiate terms for TV programming from the various networks. The Internet Unit is free to negotiate terms of service for internet related valued-added-services. Whereas, the Cable TV unit should not be permitted to negotiate terms for unrelated internet services. (i.e. ESPN Live 360). The CableTV unit as a utility providing TV service should have no interest in internet valued added services. However, in the alternative... if the Cable TV unit were permitted to negotiate terms for unrelated internet services, it should be prepared to offer those services to the open market at the same rate that it charges its own Internet Service Business Unit!! Of course.. this argument may sound familiar to some of you... I've made this same argument time and time again for the unbundling of network elements within the TelCo monopolies. If you sell phone service as a utility, your associated unregulated ISP business unit should not enjoy preferential pricing with regards to internet transport or internet termination. /RANT Larry Yunker -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 02:38:44PM -0500, Larry Yunker wrote: RANT Gee, now this (ESPN Live 360) won't make the Cable-Op internet providers have an unfair advantage over traditional ISPs! You have to imagine that the cable-op's are negotiating this internet service into their network programming agreements with EPSN, whereas if you are a non-cable-op you will have to pay outright and separate for the service and then pass along that fee to all of your subscribers or more likely... eat the cost. My understanding is that ESPN is the 800 pound gorilla here. You can't sell non-basic cable if you don't have ESPN. ESPN is reported to get $4/customer/month from the cable companies for providing the television programming it does. Things like this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/29/business/media/29cable.html happen all the time where the broadcasters and operators can't agree over money and threaten to shut off your favorite channels. A cable company might be persuaded to get espn360 to hedge their position incase they were afraid of hardball negotiations over their cable channel costs. It wounldn't be all or nothing with ESPN if they offered espn360. If they can't provide something, the customers will go straight to dish or directv. I'm not sticking up for the cable companies here. Those participating might also see the Internet as simply a conduit for proprietary and costly entertainment, which is a travesty in it's own right. That is something to rant about. This is another case where a utility is able to abuse its monopoly power to the disadvantage of a non-utility ISP. The regulated and non-regulated portions of a company that engages in internet service need to be forced to conduct business as arms-length transactions. For instance... if MegaCableCompany operates as a Cable TV provider and operates as an internet provider, the Cable TV provider business unit is regulated and enjoys an advantage as a utility, whereas the Internet Provider Business Unit is unregulated and operates in an open market. The Cable TV unit is free to negotiate terms for TV programming from the various networks. The Internet Unit is free to negotiate terms of service for internet related valued-added-services. Whereas, the Cable TV unit should not be permitted to negotiate terms for unrelated internet services. (i.e. ESPN Live 360). The CableTV unit as a utility providing TV service should have no interest in internet valued added services. However, in the alternative... if the Cable TV unit were permitted to negotiate terms for unrelated internet services, it should be prepared to offer those services to the open market at the same rate that it charges its own Internet Service Business Unit!! Of course.. this argument may sound familiar to some of you... I've made this same argument time and time again for the unbundling of network elements within the TelCo monopolies. If you sell phone service as a utility, your associated unregulated ISP business unit should not enjoy preferential pricing with regards to internet transport or internet termination. /RANT Larry Yunker -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 1:57 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
Oh, don't suggest that! Every time someone suggests WISPA do some collective bargaining, someone cries that isn't what WISPA does... but no valid reason why it can't. Yes, I cry every time that WISPA should. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 7:24 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1984/picture3vs8.png And that is all I have to say about that... ryan On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: Oh, don't suggest that! Every time someone suggests WISPA do some collective bargaining, someone cries that isn't what WISPA does... but no valid reason why it can't. Yes, I cry every time that WISPA should. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 7:24 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
sad,but it reminds me of the post bb days,and from a wisp standpoint..i can appreciate it! --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: From: Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 9:13 PM http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1984/picture3vs8.png And that is all I have to say about that... ryan On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: Oh, don't suggest that! Every time someone suggests WISPA do some collective bargaining, someone cries that isn't what WISPA does... but no valid reason why it can't. Yes, I cry every time that WISPA should. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 7:24 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
aol,prodigy,blue light...anyone remember??? --- On Fri, 3/12/10, Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com wrote: From: Ryan Spott rsp...@cspott.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 9:13 PM http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1984/picture3vs8.png And that is all I have to say about that... ryan On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: Oh, don't suggest that! Every time someone suggests WISPA do some collective bargaining, someone cries that isn't what WISPA does... but no valid reason why it can't. Yes, I cry every time that WISPA should. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 7:24 PM To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
Actually, yes, this is the first I've heard about it. Obviously, I'm not a sports fan :) I've never had a customer request. I've have mixed feelings about this. Coming from the cable world, I was used to paying providers for channel content. The difference was, we didnt have to pay for bandwidth. Now, everyone wants to ride the bandwidth that we pay for to get to our customer. Maybe big bad ESPN should pay us? .05/sub/month doesnt sound like much but it adds up real fast. Worse yet, you still pay even though not everyone wants or needs it. Oh, and just what we need, another paper to fill out. I've been predicting since '97 that we'll have to charge the billing model to charge by the bit and that day is getting closer each time things like this occur. -RickG BTW: I did dial-up back in '93 and never paid for a TCP/IP stack or the Browser :) On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Tim Sylvester t...@avanzarnetworks.com wrote: I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
As a follow up, I found out why I havent had any ESPN360 requests before now. This request came from a business account that uses my public ip addresses. My residential subs are proxied out and show up on my Time Warner IP. Since Time Warner is on the ESPN list, it works. And I was all excited to switch everyone to my IP addys. Maybe not such a good idea now! -RickG On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 1:57 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] here it come$
You can't just get espn360, you have to subscribe to the entire ESPN Broadband Bundle today, which consists of ESPN360, ABCNews Broadband, Disney Connection and SOAPNETIC. You have to offer to every customer that has at least 256k down, which for most would be all customers and for 2010 the cost is over .30 per sub. It's a long term contract and the prices go up each year. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sylvester Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 7:24 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] here it come$ I'm confused by this message. Are you saying you just heard of ESPN360? It has been around since 2007. How much do you think big bad ESPN charges for ESPN360? I have seen estimates between $0.05/sub/month to $0.25/sub/month. As far as I can tell, any ISP can contact ESPN and sign-up to offer ESPN360 to their subscribers. Here's a link to the current list of ISPs offering ESPN360: http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/affList. The list of providers ranges from ATT and Verizon each with over 10M subs. Down to the Spencer Iowa Municipal Utilities and Spruce Knob Seneca Rocks Telephone, each with a few thousand subs. The list includes cable, DSL and FTTH ISPs. The only thing that might prevent a WISP from offering ESPN360 is bandwidth. ESPN360 is just an add-on service that an ISP can bundle with their service offerings to customers. Think of it like offering e-mail accounts or web sites. In the mid 90s, ISPs had to pay to provide a TCP/IP stack and a web browser to their customers. If the WISPA members think ESPN360 would be a useful to offer their customers, have someone contact ESPN to see if you can negotiate an ESPN360 contract for all WISPA members. Tim -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] here it come$ The television content providers are going to bill ISP's? Try using ESPN Live 360 and see what it tells you. -RickG --- - WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- - WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
