Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
Nope, SBC/ATT uses them in a big way. John -Original Message- From: George Rogato [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 09:54 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations John, you must be in Qwest territory. We see the 2 wire essid's all over the place, they're replacing the older actiontec essid's. George John J. Thomas wrote: I have one in front of me, the FCC ID is PGR2W2700RD. From the 2Wire website Eliminate Coldspots with HyperG Technology 2Wire?s HyperG? high-powered wireless technology virtually eliminates wireless ?coldspots? in the home. HomePortal residential gateways provide up to seven times the true power of traditional access points and increase wireless bandwidth by using high power 400mW transmitters*. Most wireless access points provide less than 100mW *configurable power setting to comply with country specific power requirements John -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
I have one in front of me, the FCC ID is PGR2W2700RD. From the 2Wire website Eliminate Coldspots with HyperG Technology 2Wire?s HyperG? high-powered wireless technology virtually eliminates wireless ?coldspots? in the home. HomePortal residential gateways provide up to seven times the true power of traditional access points and increase wireless bandwidth by using high power 400mW transmitters*. Most wireless access points provide less than 100mW *configurable power setting to comply with country specific power requirements John -Original Message- From: Matt Larsen - Lists [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 01:05 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations Hm.. My understanding is that 400mw radios are generally not FCC compliant.If that is the case, then there are a lot of telcos that have been selling non-compliant equipment in the form of those DSL modems that they sell to their customers. Just a thought. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com John J. Thomas wrote: The Telcos all over are deploying 400 mW units-anything that says 2WIRE is 400 mW. John -Original Message- From: Lonnie Nunweiler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 09:12 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations Precisely why X2 cloaking is so important. It doubles the number of channels and X4 gives 11 of them back to us. X4 gives about 7 mbps with non compressible data and over 12 mbps with compressible data. Better than a standard B model with perfect conditions. The other thing to keep in mind is that all of those channel 6 units attached to ADSL lines are typically unused or lightly used. They connect with an ADSL line and thus cannot even begin to consume the total air time. The Telco here is distributing units with 400 mW radaios whether the client even wants wireless in their home. It does not even phase a cloaked connection so we are OK with it. Lonnie On 2/15/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There USED to be three non overlapping channels. Now channel 6 overlaps with every third house in many markets :-). Marlon - Original Message - From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations Standard Wifi has 3 channels that do not overlap. X4 cloaking has 6 channels that do not overlap and X4 cloaking has 11 channels that do not overlap. We use 4 WLM-54G radios in a WAR4 and have seen no great issues unless two active radios are on the same channel. I am not sure about 6 but I know for sure that 4 works fine. Incidentally the SR9 has almost NO leakage. Even with the cards side by side they will not link up. In order to get anything from them you need a pigtail and an antenna. Lonnie On 2/15/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd recommend against that idea Matt. ALL devices leak some energy. And the amount of interference you'll create for yourself at inches vs. feet is amazing. If you can keep things 3 feet apart there is much less energy, small small fractions in fact. Alvarion with their FHSS gear can get away with such things because they can always stay enough hopping channels away from near by radios. FHSS has 72 (or is it only 70?) channels to choose from. WiFi has basically 2 these days. Where this one gets hard to explain is that people build such critters, test them in the lap and then say that they work. Life will change dramatically however, once installed into a working system AND with the addition of real customers with real traffic. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations I thought you were already working with Deliberant on just such an animal. Where are you guys with that? I know they have a dual radio unit capable of 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz in the same box. Scriv Matt Liotta wrote: We don't do much Wi-Fi, so I figured I would ask the list. If I wanted to deploy a number of Wi-Fi radios at the same location what kind of setups are available? I am looking for something where I can deploy one physical box that has multiple radios as opposed to a single box per radio. Ideally, it would be something modular where I can have a variable number of radio interfaces by simply adding cards. Does anything like that exist? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
John, you must be in Qwest territory. We see the 2 wire essid's all over the place, they're replacing the older actiontec essid's. George John J. Thomas wrote: I have one in front of me, the FCC ID is PGR2W2700RD. From the 2Wire website Eliminate Coldspots with HyperG Technology 2Wire?s HyperG? high-powered wireless technology virtually eliminates wireless ?coldspots? in the home. HomePortal residential gateways provide up to seven times the true power of traditional access points and increase wireless bandwidth by using high power 400mW transmitters*. Most wireless access points provide less than 100mW *configurable power setting to comply with country specific power requirements John -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
The Telcos all over are deploying 400 mW units-anything that says 2WIRE is 400 mW. John -Original Message- From: Lonnie Nunweiler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 09:12 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations Precisely why X2 cloaking is so important. It doubles the number of channels and X4 gives 11 of them back to us. X4 gives about 7 mbps with non compressible data and over 12 mbps with compressible data. Better than a standard B model with perfect conditions. The other thing to keep in mind is that all of those channel 6 units attached to ADSL lines are typically unused or lightly used. They connect with an ADSL line and thus cannot even begin to consume the total air time. The Telco here is distributing units with 400 mW radaios whether the client even wants wireless in their home. It does not even phase a cloaked connection so we are OK with it. Lonnie On 2/15/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There USED to be three non overlapping channels. Now channel 6 overlaps with every third house in many markets :-). Marlon - Original Message - From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations Standard Wifi has 3 channels that do not overlap. X4 cloaking has 6 channels that do not overlap and X4 cloaking has 11 channels that do not overlap. We use 4 WLM-54G radios in a WAR4 and have seen no great issues unless two active radios are on the same channel. I am not sure about 6 but I know for sure that 4 works fine. Incidentally the SR9 has almost NO leakage. Even with the cards side by side they will not link up. In order to get anything from them you need a pigtail and an antenna. Lonnie On 2/15/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd recommend against that idea Matt. ALL devices leak some energy. And the amount of interference you'll create for yourself at inches vs. feet is amazing. If you can keep things 3 feet apart there is much less energy, small small fractions in fact. Alvarion with their FHSS gear can get away with such things because they can always stay enough hopping channels away from near by radios. FHSS has 72 (or is it only 70?) channels to choose from. WiFi has basically 2 these days. Where this one gets hard to explain is that people build such critters, test them in the lap and then say that they work. Life will change dramatically however, once installed into a working system AND with the addition of real customers with real traffic. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations I thought you were already working with Deliberant on just such an animal. Where are you guys with that? I know they have a dual radio unit capable of 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz in the same box. Scriv Matt Liotta wrote: We don't do much Wi-Fi, so I figured I would ask the list. If I wanted to deploy a number of Wi-Fi radios at the same location what kind of setups are available? I am looking for something where I can deploy one physical box that has multiple radios as opposed to a single box per radio. Ideally, it would be something modular where I can have a variable number of radio interfaces by simply adding cards. Does anything like that exist? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
Hm.. My understanding is that 400mw radios are generally not FCC compliant.If that is the case, then there are a lot of telcos that have been selling non-compliant equipment in the form of those DSL modems that they sell to their customers. Just a thought. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com John J. Thomas wrote: The Telcos all over are deploying 400 mW units-anything that says 2WIRE is 400 mW. John -Original Message- From: Lonnie Nunweiler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 09:12 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations Precisely why X2 cloaking is so important. It doubles the number of channels and X4 gives 11 of them back to us. X4 gives about 7 mbps with non compressible data and over 12 mbps with compressible data. Better than a standard B model with perfect conditions. The other thing to keep in mind is that all of those channel 6 units attached to ADSL lines are typically unused or lightly used. They connect with an ADSL line and thus cannot even begin to consume the total air time. The Telco here is distributing units with 400 mW radaios whether the client even wants wireless in their home. It does not even phase a cloaked connection so we are OK with it. Lonnie On 2/15/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There USED to be three non overlapping channels. Now channel 6 overlaps with every third house in many markets :-). Marlon - Original Message - From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations Standard Wifi has 3 channels that do not overlap. X4 cloaking has 6 channels that do not overlap and X4 cloaking has 11 channels that do not overlap. We use 4 WLM-54G radios in a WAR4 and have seen no great issues unless two active radios are on the same channel. I am not sure about 6 but I know for sure that 4 works fine. Incidentally the SR9 has almost NO leakage. Even with the cards side by side they will not link up. In order to get anything from them you need a pigtail and an antenna. Lonnie On 2/15/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd recommend against that idea Matt. ALL devices leak some energy. And the amount of interference you'll create for yourself at inches vs. feet is amazing. If you can keep things 3 feet apart there is much less energy, small small fractions in fact. Alvarion with their FHSS gear can get away with such things because they can always stay enough hopping channels away from near by radios. FHSS has 72 (or is it only 70?) channels to choose from. WiFi has basically 2 these days. Where this one gets hard to explain is that people build such critters, test them in the lap and then say that they work. Life will change dramatically however, once installed into a working system AND with the addition of real customers with real traffic. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations I thought you were already working with Deliberant on just such an animal. Where are you guys with that? I know they have a dual radio unit capable of 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz in the same box. Scriv Matt Liotta wrote: We don't do much Wi-Fi, so I figured I would ask the list. If I wanted to deploy a number of Wi-Fi radios at the same location what kind of setups are available? I am looking for something where I can deploy one physical box that has multiple radios as opposed to a single box per radio. Ideally, it would be something modular where I can have a variable number of radio interfaces by simply adding cards. Does anything like that exist? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
RE: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
400mw into a rubber duck (usually almost no gain) is probably fine. There are plenty of radios that are certified at 400 mw. Unless the rubber duck is 10 dB, I think you are fine. One that comes to mind is the Tropos 5210 mesh node. It even has 2 7.4 dBi antennas on it. It's ERP is supposedly 4 watts - which is way too much, still for a mesh with 30 nodes per sq mile, and has to be turned down anyway. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Larsen - Lists Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations Hm.. My understanding is that 400mw radios are generally not FCC compliant.If that is the case, then there are a lot of telcos that have been selling non-compliant equipment in the form of those DSL modems that they sell to their customers. Just a thought. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com John J. Thomas wrote: The Telcos all over are deploying 400 mW units-anything that says 2WIRE is 400 mW. John -Original Message- From: Lonnie Nunweiler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 09:12 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations Precisely why X2 cloaking is so important. It doubles the number of channels and X4 gives 11 of them back to us. X4 gives about 7 mbps with non compressible data and over 12 mbps with compressible data. Better than a standard B model with perfect conditions. The other thing to keep in mind is that all of those channel 6 units attached to ADSL lines are typically unused or lightly used. They connect with an ADSL line and thus cannot even begin to consume the total air time. The Telco here is distributing units with 400 mW radaios whether the client even wants wireless in their home. It does not even phase a cloaked connection so we are OK with it. Lonnie On 2/15/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There USED to be three non overlapping channels. Now channel 6 overlaps with every third house in many markets :-). Marlon - Original Message - From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations Standard Wifi has 3 channels that do not overlap. X4 cloaking has 6 channels that do not overlap and X4 cloaking has 11 channels that do not overlap. We use 4 WLM-54G radios in a WAR4 and have seen no great issues unless two active radios are on the same channel. I am not sure about 6 but I know for sure that 4 works fine. Incidentally the SR9 has almost NO leakage. Even with the cards side by side they will not link up. In order to get anything from them you need a pigtail and an antenna. Lonnie On 2/15/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd recommend against that idea Matt. ALL devices leak some energy. And the amount of interference you'll create for yourself at inches vs. feet is amazing. If you can keep things 3 feet apart there is much less energy, small small fractions in fact. Alvarion with their FHSS gear can get away with such things because they can always stay enough hopping channels away from near by radios. FHSS has 72 (or is it only 70?) channels to choose from. WiFi has basically 2 these days. Where this one gets hard to explain is that people build such critters, test them in the lap and then say that they work. Life will change dramatically however, once installed into a working system AND with the addition of real customers with real traffic. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations I thought you were already working with Deliberant on just such an animal. Where are you guys with that? I know they have a dual radio unit capable of 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz in the same box. Scriv Matt Liotta wrote: We don't do much Wi-Fi, so I figured I would ask the list. If I wanted to deploy a number of Wi-Fi radios at the same location what kind of setups are available? I am looking for something where I can deploy one physical box that has multiple radios as opposed to a single box per radio. Ideally, it would be something modular where I can have a variable number of radio interfaces by simply adding cards. Does anything like that exist? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives
Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations I thought you were already working with Deliberant on just such an animal. Where are you guys with that? I know they have a dual radio unit capable of 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz in the same box. Scriv Matt Liotta wrote: We don't do much Wi-Fi, so I figured I would ask the list. If I wanted to deploy a number of Wi-Fi radios at the same location what kind of setups are available? I am looking for something where I can deploy one physical box that has multiple radios as opposed to a single box per radio. Ideally, it would be something modular where I can have a variable number of radio interfaces by simply adding cards. Does anything like that exist? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
I'd think that would be correct. marlon - Original Message - From: Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations There shouldn't be any interference from 2.4 to 5.8 though should there, even if the card can handle dual band (CM9s)? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Marlon K. Schafer wrote: I'd recommend against that idea Matt. ALL devices leak some energy. And the amount of interference you'll create for yourself at inches vs. feet is amazing. If you can keep things 3 feet apart there is much less energy, small small fractions in fact. Alvarion with their FHSS gear can get away with such things because they can always stay enough hopping channels away from near by radios. FHSS has 72 (or is it only 70?) channels to choose from. WiFi has basically 2 these days. Where this one gets hard to explain is that people build such critters, test them in the lap and then say that they work. Life will change dramatically however, once installed into a working system AND with the addition of real customers with real traffic. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations I thought you were already working with Deliberant on just such an animal. Where are you guys with that? I know they have a dual radio unit capable of 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz in the same box. Scriv Matt Liotta wrote: We don't do much Wi-Fi, so I figured I would ask the list. If I wanted to deploy a number of Wi-Fi radios at the same location what kind of setups are available? I am looking for something where I can deploy one physical box that has multiple radios as opposed to a single box per radio. Ideally, it would be something modular where I can have a variable number of radio interfaces by simply adding cards. Does anything like that exist? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
There USED to be three non overlapping channels. Now channel 6 overlaps with every third house in many markets :-). Marlon - Original Message - From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations Standard Wifi has 3 channels that do not overlap. X4 cloaking has 6 channels that do not overlap and X4 cloaking has 11 channels that do not overlap. We use 4 WLM-54G radios in a WAR4 and have seen no great issues unless two active radios are on the same channel. I am not sure about 6 but I know for sure that 4 works fine. Incidentally the SR9 has almost NO leakage. Even with the cards side by side they will not link up. In order to get anything from them you need a pigtail and an antenna. Lonnie On 2/15/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd recommend against that idea Matt. ALL devices leak some energy. And the amount of interference you'll create for yourself at inches vs. feet is amazing. If you can keep things 3 feet apart there is much less energy, small small fractions in fact. Alvarion with their FHSS gear can get away with such things because they can always stay enough hopping channels away from near by radios. FHSS has 72 (or is it only 70?) channels to choose from. WiFi has basically 2 these days. Where this one gets hard to explain is that people build such critters, test them in the lap and then say that they work. Life will change dramatically however, once installed into a working system AND with the addition of real customers with real traffic. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations I thought you were already working with Deliberant on just such an animal. Where are you guys with that? I know they have a dual radio unit capable of 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz in the same box. Scriv Matt Liotta wrote: We don't do much Wi-Fi, so I figured I would ask the list. If I wanted to deploy a number of Wi-Fi radios at the same location what kind of setups are available? I am looking for something where I can deploy one physical box that has multiple radios as opposed to a single box per radio. Ideally, it would be something modular where I can have a variable number of radio interfaces by simply adding cards. Does anything like that exist? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
Precisely why X2 cloaking is so important. It doubles the number of channels and X4 gives 11 of them back to us. X4 gives about 7 mbps with non compressible data and over 12 mbps with compressible data. Better than a standard B model with perfect conditions. The other thing to keep in mind is that all of those channel 6 units attached to ADSL lines are typically unused or lightly used. They connect with an ADSL line and thus cannot even begin to consume the total air time. The Telco here is distributing units with 400 mW radaios whether the client even wants wireless in their home. It does not even phase a cloaked connection so we are OK with it. Lonnie On 2/15/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There USED to be three non overlapping channels. Now channel 6 overlaps with every third house in many markets :-). Marlon - Original Message - From: Lonnie Nunweiler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations Standard Wifi has 3 channels that do not overlap. X4 cloaking has 6 channels that do not overlap and X4 cloaking has 11 channels that do not overlap. We use 4 WLM-54G radios in a WAR4 and have seen no great issues unless two active radios are on the same channel. I am not sure about 6 but I know for sure that 4 works fine. Incidentally the SR9 has almost NO leakage. Even with the cards side by side they will not link up. In order to get anything from them you need a pigtail and an antenna. Lonnie On 2/15/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd recommend against that idea Matt. ALL devices leak some energy. And the amount of interference you'll create for yourself at inches vs. feet is amazing. If you can keep things 3 feet apart there is much less energy, small small fractions in fact. Alvarion with their FHSS gear can get away with such things because they can always stay enough hopping channels away from near by radios. FHSS has 72 (or is it only 70?) channels to choose from. WiFi has basically 2 these days. Where this one gets hard to explain is that people build such critters, test them in the lap and then say that they work. Life will change dramatically however, once installed into a working system AND with the addition of real customers with real traffic. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations I thought you were already working with Deliberant on just such an animal. Where are you guys with that? I know they have a dual radio unit capable of 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz in the same box. Scriv Matt Liotta wrote: We don't do much Wi-Fi, so I figured I would ask the list. If I wanted to deploy a number of Wi-Fi radios at the same location what kind of setups are available? I am looking for something where I can deploy one physical box that has multiple radios as opposed to a single box per radio. Ideally, it would be something modular where I can have a variable number of radio interfaces by simply adding cards. Does anything like that exist? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
Hi Matt, Meru Networks Radio Switch takes up to 4 Wi-Fi cards - 2 b/g, and 2 a. It is controller-based, but the controller could be on a separate network. There is full support for multiple ESSIDs and heavy optimization for voice. You might have heard of Meru in Network Computing's recent article pitting Meru against Cisco. Meru won quite handily in throughput and calls/radio. I've encouraged them to develop an outdoor version, but it's yet to arrive. Best, -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
Marlon K. Schafer wrote: SNIP FHSS has 72 (or is it only 70?) channels to choose from. WiFi has basically 2 these days. Last account I had was that FHSS had 75 channels and I could have sworn last time I looked we still had 3 non over lapping channels in 802.11b DSSS. Mac -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
We don't do much Wi-Fi, so I figured I would ask the list. If I wanted to deploy a number of Wi-Fi radios at the same location what kind of setups are available? I am looking for something where I can deploy one physical box that has multiple radios as opposed to a single box per radio. Ideally, it would be something modular where I can have a variable number of radio interfaces by simply adding cards. Does anything like that exist? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
Matt, I advise using only thoroughly tested hardware. Often when using multiple radios in a single enclosure there will be interference issues that will only become apparent when the radios become heavily loaded and have to deliver high throughput. If you deploy without full throughput testing (either your custom-built product or someone else's product) you may think everything is fine until the throughput load(s) start building up and then you'll find that the box will not deliver the throughput that you expected from the multiple radios. This interference happens because of leakage from card to card. Even though cards are on different frequencies, enough wireless energy can leak across cards to desensitize the receivers, causing packet loss, packet retransmissions, and reduced throughput. I expect you will get several comments from people who will advise you that they have several radios in one box and it's working great. Either they have a good engineering staff that knew how to carefully engineer and design the entire box with excellent RF shielding between the multiple cards or (much more likely) they do not understand the issues of RF leakage, receiver overload, and the consequent throughput reduction and they HAVE NOT TESTED their solution under conditions of heavy loading so they don't realize the shortcomings of their design. In summary, it may be more inconvenient to use separate (well shielded) metal enclosures for different Wi-Fi (or other) radios but using separate enclosures will give you a MUCH HIGHER CHANCE of achieving full throughput from each radio. Throughput is of course what customers pay WISPs to deliver so WISPs are advised to consider the costs of both technician labor and (lost) business reputation when making multiple-radio Wi-Fi hardware decisons. Respectfully, jack Matt Liotta wrote: We don't do much Wi-Fi, so I figured I would ask the list. If I wanted to deploy a number of Wi-Fi radios at the same location what kind of setups are available? I am looking for something where I can deploy one physical box that has multiple radios as opposed to a single box per radio. Ideally, it would be something modular where I can have a variable number of radio interfaces by simply adding cards. Does anything like that exist? -Matt -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] multi-radio Wi-Fi base stations
I thought you were already working with Deliberant on just such an animal. Where are you guys with that? I know they have a dual radio unit capable of 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz in the same box. Scriv Matt Liotta wrote: We don't do much Wi-Fi, so I figured I would ask the list. If I wanted to deploy a number of Wi-Fi radios at the same location what kind of setups are available? I am looking for something where I can deploy one physical box that has multiple radios as opposed to a single box per radio. Ideally, it would be something modular where I can have a variable number of radio interfaces by simply adding cards. Does anything like that exist? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
