Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
Is there a way to see that Ares Ultra is being used? Or do you have to rely on them telling you they're using it after you notice them taking every available packet? I assume you could somewhat mitigate the problem by using a 'tik to provide a shaped bandwidth...full speed for 1 minute, dropping by half in the second minute, etc. Or does this not solve the problem? I imagine it might not help if the problem is packets, not bandwidth, if small packets are being created. So that brings up a question...can Microtik limit packets by connection as opposed to bandwidth? (though we use 'tiks my staff implements them, not me). Given that we typically get limited by equipment's ability to process rather than bandwidth by itself, it seems like it might be useful to go to the source of the problem rather than use bandwidth as a proxy to control problems. Chuck At 9:29 PM -0500 3/20/07, Pete Davis wrote: Ares Ultra costs the customer around $50 from what I hear. It ENCRYPTS the P2P traffic, and the Mikrotik will NOT recognize it as P2P traffic, so it will take EVERY AVAILABLE PACKET that your AP can push out. The way I have dealt with this is to disable the client (at the radio level) and when they call, I tell them that we cannot support P2P applications. If they demand that they have to do it, and refuse to quit, then I uninstall them, and suggest that they get their broadband elsewhere. I haven't found a more effective way to make it work. pd Mark Nash wrote: I had a customer tell me yesterday that he uses his Gnutella program to do unlimited downloads from a paid site. I've used the Mikrotik routers (p2p queue set to 64k) to block this and other programs, so it's not working now for the customer. I want to allow for paid downloads, but not P2P filesharing. Have you come across this? Can it be dealt with? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- --- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 x108 Tell me not, in mournful numbers, Life is but an empty dream! For the soul is dead that slumbers, And things are not what they seem. A Psalm of Life, Longfellow -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
We are looking at automagically throttling the bandwidth hogs back at peak times and letting them run normally otherwise. Seems like a good way to deal with it to keep your normal usage custommers happy and if your bandwidth hogs don't like it they can move to another ISP. Have not yet gotten the scripts done to do this yet although with PPPoE we religiously track per user usage and have for years. Matt On 3/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a way to see that Ares Ultra is being used? Or do you have to rely on them telling you they're using it after you notice them taking every available packet? I assume you could somewhat mitigate the problem by using a 'tik to provide a shaped bandwidth...full speed for 1 minute, dropping by half in the second minute, etc. Or does this not solve the problem? I imagine it might not help if the problem is packets, not bandwidth, if small packets are being created. So that brings up a question...can Microtik limit packets by connection as opposed to bandwidth? (though we use 'tiks my staff implements them, not me). Given that we typically get limited by equipment's ability to process rather than bandwidth by itself, it seems like it might be useful to go to the source of the problem rather than use bandwidth as a proxy to control problems. Chuck At 9:29 PM -0500 3/20/07, Pete Davis wrote: Ares Ultra costs the customer around $50 from what I hear. It ENCRYPTS the P2P traffic, and the Mikrotik will NOT recognize it as P2P traffic, so it will take EVERY AVAILABLE PACKET that your AP can push out. The way I have dealt with this is to disable the client (at the radio level) and when they call, I tell them that we cannot support P2P applications. If they demand that they have to do it, and refuse to quit, then I uninstall them, and suggest that they get their broadband elsewhere. I haven't found a more effective way to make it work. pd Mark Nash wrote: I had a customer tell me yesterday that he uses his Gnutella program to do unlimited downloads from a paid site. I've used the Mikrotik routers (p2p queue set to 64k) to block this and other programs, so it's not working now for the customer. I want to allow for paid downloads, but not P2P filesharing. Have you come across this? Can it be dealt with? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- --- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 x108 Tell me not, in mournful numbers, Life is but an empty dream! For the soul is dead that slumbers, And things are not what they seem. A Psalm of Life, Longfellow -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
The first fly in the ointment I see with the prevailing response from many WISPs (tell the 'hogs' to go elsewhere) is MDUs. Telling individual customers within an MDU to take a hike (even if you say it nicely) if you have an agreement with the MDU owner, could be a recipe for losing the MDU contract. Maybe that's necessary in some cases, but it'd sure be better to find a way to address the issues through technology rather than getting rid of customers. But there are at least some indications that bandwidth limiting might not always be a sufficient solution if the problem is really packet processing capacity. Also, I think getting rid of troubling customers isn't actually a solution (except in extreme cases) because they are often an indication of where things are headed for the broader market. It's a chance to solve the problem now when not many people are affected rather than waiting until it's an issue with lots and lots of end users. (By the way, though I'm following up after Matt, I'm not picking on his response, just trying to point out what I think some of the issues are. We're also looking at no throttling at certain times of the day, but restricting usage during peak hours). Chuck At 10:43 AM -0500 3/21/07, Matt wrote: We are looking at automagically throttling the bandwidth hogs back at peak times and letting them run normally otherwise. Seems like a good way to deal with it to keep your normal usage custommers happy and if your bandwidth hogs don't like it they can move to another ISP. Have not yet gotten the scripts done to do this yet although with PPPoE we religiously track per user usage and have for years. Matt On 3/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a way to see that Ares Ultra is being used? Or do you have to rely on them telling you they're using it after you notice them taking every available packet? I assume you could somewhat mitigate the problem by using a 'tik to provide a shaped bandwidth...full speed for 1 minute, dropping by half in the second minute, etc. Or does this not solve the problem? I imagine it might not help if the problem is packets, not bandwidth, if small packets are being created. So that brings up a question...can Microtik limit packets by connection as opposed to bandwidth? (though we use 'tiks my staff implements them, not me). Given that we typically get limited by equipment's ability to process rather than bandwidth by itself, it seems like it might be useful to go to the source of the problem rather than use bandwidth as a proxy to control problems. Chuck -- --- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 x108 Tell me not, in mournful numbers, Life is but an empty dream! For the soul is dead that slumbers, And things are not what they seem. A Psalm of Life, Longfellow -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
The first fly in the ointment I see with the prevailing response from many WISPs (tell the 'hogs' to go elsewhere) is MDUs. Telling individual customers within an MDU to take a hike (even if you say it nicely) if you have an agreement with the MDU owner, could be a recipe for losing the MDU contract. Maybe that's necessary in some cases, but it'd sure be better to find a way to address the issues through technology rather than getting rid of customers. Perhaps I am missing something somewhere in this post but what is a MDU? Also, we have nearly a 1000 CPE out and have been in the wisp business since 2000 and have yet too tell a user to take a hike. A few I would have liked to though. Regretfully the vast majority of our users are 900Mhz now. There is a bottleneck right there bandwidth wise that will be very difficult to work around. Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
MDU Multiple Dwelling Unit Matt wrote: The first fly in the ointment I see with the prevailing response from many WISPs (tell the 'hogs' to go elsewhere) is MDUs. Telling individual customers within an MDU to take a hike (even if you say it nicely) if you have an agreement with the MDU owner, could be a recipe for losing the MDU contract. Maybe that's necessary in some cases, but it'd sure be better to find a way to address the issues through technology rather than getting rid of customers. Perhaps I am missing something somewhere in this post but what is a MDU? Also, we have nearly a 1000 CPE out and have been in the wisp business since 2000 and have yet too tell a user to take a hike. A few I would have liked to though. Regretfully the vast majority of our users are 900Mhz now. There is a bottleneck right there bandwidth wise that will be very difficult to work around. Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
At 2:05 PM -0500 3/21/07, Matt wrote: The first fly in the ointment I see with the prevailing response from many WISPs (tell the 'hogs' to go elsewhere) is MDUs. Telling individual customers within an MDU to take a hike (even if you say it nicely) if you have an agreement with the MDU owner, could be a recipe for losing the MDU contract. Maybe that's necessary in some cases, but it'd sure be better to find a way to address the issues through technology rather than getting rid of customers. Perhaps I am missing something somewhere in this post but what is a MDU? Multidwelling unit (usually an apartment building or rental house). Also called MTU (multi-tenant unit). Chuck Also, we have nearly a 1000 CPE out and have been in the wisp business since 2000 and have yet too tell a user to take a hike. A few I would have liked to though. Regretfully the vast majority of our users are 900Mhz now. There is a bottleneck right there bandwidth wise that will be very difficult to work around. Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- --- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 x108 Tell me not, in mournful numbers, Life is but an empty dream! For the soul is dead that slumbers, And things are not what they seem. A Psalm of Life, Longfellow -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
The paid P2P is only for support on the software, it does not make it legit. go to the site and read what it says. No royalties are paid to anyone. You have a Good Day now, Carl A Jeptha http://www.airnet.ca Office Phone: 905 349-2084 Office Hours: 9:00am - 5:00pm skype cajeptha Mark Nash wrote: I had a customer tell me yesterday that he uses his Gnutella program to do unlimited downloads from a paid site. I've used the Mikrotik routers (p2p queue set to 64k) to block this and other programs, so it's not working now for the customer. I want to allow for paid downloads, but not P2P filesharing. Have you come across this? Can it be dealt with? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
I've seen sites like Limewire that charge for using the program (with limewire facelift) to do unlimited downloads - Still Ilegal. Also I ran across a customer who did his homework signed up for the third most popular DVD download site, but it was still a Paid P2P scam!! On 3/20/07, Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had a customer tell me yesterday that he uses his Gnutella program to do unlimited downloads from a paid site. I've used the Mikrotik routers (p2p queue set to 64k) to block this and other programs, so it's not working now for the customer. I want to allow for paid downloads, but not P2P filesharing. Have you come across this? Can it be dealt with? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
Mark Nash wrote: I had a customer tell me yesterday that he uses his Gnutella program to do unlimited downloads from a paid site. I've used the Mikrotik routers (p2p queue set to 64k) to block this and other programs, so it's not working now for the customer. I want to allow for paid downloads, but not P2P filesharing. The most likely scenario here is the one that's already been mentioned a couple times - that your customer, basically, was conned. At this time, I don't know of any (legal) services that operate that way. At this time being the key phrase. Over time, this WILL become an issue. Bram Cohen (the author of the popular BitTorrent software) has made deals with a number of media centers, such that bittorrent.com is now has a non-trivial amount of legal content that users download using P2P software. And there are the classic examples like Linux ISOs and archive.org. There were rumors that Apple might integrate some kind of P2P software into their iTV (now AppleTV) product, to speed the download of purchased programming. I don't think anything came of that, but still. Like it or not, a lot of our customers want to use P2P software, and we're basically out of time for the old everything you do is illegal speech, because that's provably not true any longer. (Yes, it's still 95% true, but that's a quibble.) Generally, I tell users that I really don't care what they're downloading, only how they're downloading it. A brief speech on how RF, as a shared medium, works, and most customers are at least somewhat understanding. (Note: not necessarily happy, just understanding.) As a tangent to this, has anyone deployed a sizeable wireless network that uses, say, Mikrotik's M3P or something similar for the end-users? If so, does it actually make P2P usable for end-users without making everyone's connections feel sluggish? David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
The only cure for P2P is bandwidth caps. We have operated this way since our inception 5 years ago. We all sale bandwidth for a living - - the more I sale the more money I make. I tell every client what their share is for the month (listed in our TOS AUP) and I charge for any amount over that. I do shape all P2P, but that is for self preservation! Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit? Mark Nash wrote: I had a customer tell me yesterday that he uses his Gnutella program to do unlimited downloads from a paid site. I've used the Mikrotik routers (p2p queue set to 64k) to block this and other programs, so it's not working now for the customer. I want to allow for paid downloads, but not P2P filesharing. The most likely scenario here is the one that's already been mentioned a couple times - that your customer, basically, was conned. At this time, I don't know of any (legal) services that operate that way. At this time being the key phrase. Over time, this WILL become an issue. Bram Cohen (the author of the popular BitTorrent software) has made deals with a number of media centers, such that bittorrent.com is now has a non-trivial amount of legal content that users download using P2P software. And there are the classic examples like Linux ISOs and archive.org. There were rumors that Apple might integrate some kind of P2P software into their iTV (now AppleTV) product, to speed the download of purchased programming. I don't think anything came of that, but still. Like it or not, a lot of our customers want to use P2P software, and we're basically out of time for the old everything you do is illegal speech, because that's provably not true any longer. (Yes, it's still 95% true, but that's a quibble.) Generally, I tell users that I really don't care what they're downloading, only how they're downloading it. A brief speech on how RF, as a shared medium, works, and most customers are at least somewhat understanding. (Note: not necessarily happy, just understanding.) As a tangent to this, has anyone deployed a sizeable wireless network that uses, say, Mikrotik's M3P or something similar for the end-users? If so, does it actually make P2P usable for end-users without making everyone's connections feel sluggish? David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
Or - shape EVERYTHING. You don't want limits? You can easily set a burst limit, not like a typical one, but using long averages and multiple shapes. Like for instance: 10M burst, for 10 seconds, then 5M burst for 30 seconds, after that you take it down to 1-2Mbps for say 30 more seconds. But you don't tell the customer this... On a MT router, I noticed shaping on conventional shared cable broadband - you can literally watch the shape on a big download. - Original Message - From: David E. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit? Mark Nash wrote: I had a customer tell me yesterday that he uses his Gnutella program to do unlimited downloads from a paid site. I've used the Mikrotik routers (p2p queue set to 64k) to block this and other programs, so it's not working now for the customer. I want to allow for paid downloads, but not P2P filesharing. The most likely scenario here is the one that's already been mentioned a couple times - that your customer, basically, was conned. At this time, I don't know of any (legal) services that operate that way. At this time being the key phrase. Over time, this WILL become an issue. Bram Cohen (the author of the popular BitTorrent software) has made deals with a number of media centers, such that bittorrent.com is now has a non-trivial amount of legal content that users download using P2P software. And there are the classic examples like Linux ISOs and archive.org. There were rumors that Apple might integrate some kind of P2P software into their iTV (now AppleTV) product, to speed the download of purchased programming. I don't think anything came of that, but still. Like it or not, a lot of our customers want to use P2P software, and we're basically out of time for the old everything you do is illegal speech, because that's provably not true any longer. (Yes, it's still 95% true, but that's a quibble.) Generally, I tell users that I really don't care what they're downloading, only how they're downloading it. A brief speech on how RF, as a shared medium, works, and most customers are at least somewhat understanding. (Note: not necessarily happy, just understanding.) As a tangent to this, has anyone deployed a sizeable wireless network that uses, say, Mikrotik's M3P or something similar for the end-users? If so, does it actually make P2P usable for end-users without making everyone's connections feel sluggish? David Smith MVN.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.15/728 - Release Date: 3/20/2007 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
Ares Ultra costs the customer around $50 from what I hear. It ENCRYPTS the P2P traffic, and the Mikrotik will NOT recognize it as P2P traffic, so it will take EVERY AVAILABLE PACKET that your AP can push out. The way I have dealt with this is to disable the client (at the radio level) and when they call, I tell them that we cannot support P2P applications. If they demand that they have to do it, and refuse to quit, then I uninstall them, and suggest that they get their broadband elsewhere. I haven't found a more effective way to make it work. pd Mark Nash wrote: I had a customer tell me yesterday that he uses his Gnutella program to do unlimited downloads from a paid site. I've used the Mikrotik routers (p2p queue set to 64k) to block this and other programs, so it's not working now for the customer. I want to allow for paid downloads, but not P2P filesharing. Have you come across this? Can it be dealt with? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
Ares Ultra costs the customer around $50 from what I hear. It ENCRYPTS the P2P traffic, and the Mikrotik will NOT recognize it as P2P traffic, so it will take EVERY AVAILABLE PACKET that your AP can push out. The way I have dealt with this is to disable the client (at the radio level) and when they call, I tell them that we cannot support P2P applications. If they demand that they have to do it, and refuse to quit, then I uninstall them, and suggest that they get their broadband elsewhere. I haven't found a more effective way to make it work. pd Mark Nash wrote: I had a customer tell me yesterday that he uses his Gnutella program to do unlimited downloads from a paid site. I've used the Mikrotik routers (p2p queue set to 64k) to block this and other programs, so it's not working now for the customer. I want to allow for paid downloads, but not P2P filesharing. Have you come across this? Can it be dealt with? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit?
Check out the High Speed Wireless program here. Pay special attention to the transfer limits. http://www.odessaoffice.com/services.html We turn things like that into profit centers. If they won't pay, then they fire themselves. OR they learn to control their usage. If they stay and don't control usage, fine with me. I love my $35 accounts that actually pay $50 to $60 per month. grin marlon - Original Message - From: Pete Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] P2P Apps Going Legit? Ares Ultra costs the customer around $50 from what I hear. It ENCRYPTS the P2P traffic, and the Mikrotik will NOT recognize it as P2P traffic, so it will take EVERY AVAILABLE PACKET that your AP can push out. The way I have dealt with this is to disable the client (at the radio level) and when they call, I tell them that we cannot support P2P applications. If they demand that they have to do it, and refuse to quit, then I uninstall them, and suggest that they get their broadband elsewhere. I haven't found a more effective way to make it work. pd Mark Nash wrote: I had a customer tell me yesterday that he uses his Gnutella program to do unlimited downloads from a paid site. I've used the Mikrotik routers (p2p queue set to 64k) to block this and other programs, so it's not working now for the customer. I want to allow for paid downloads, but not P2P filesharing. Have you come across this? Can it be dealt with? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
