Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
LOL Mike, this is "try it and see what happens" territory. marlon - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Mike, Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas above the trees. jack Mike Hammett wrote: Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
Let me chime in here. It will also depend on the equipment you are using. I can state that I have seen many instances of Canopy not working because of trees yet Alvarion will work just fine at 5 GHz. The OFDM has proven to work quite will through trees. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com> -Original Message- From: Mike Hammett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Kinds? um...I know coniferous vs. deciduous and a couple different kinds of deciduous, but that's about it... Maple, crab apple, locust, that's about it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "CHUCK PROFITO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation No one talks of the type of trees. We've noticed getting through a line of poplars, adjust antenna size, not much of a problem. But one pine tree, or a well placed ash, near impossible. Maybe the pine needles attenuate more because they are thin and in all directions thus absorbing all reflections ?? Anybody else see this. Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Graham McIntire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation >I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz > sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles > out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. > > I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going > through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty > badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but > stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little > more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) > > Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even > with snow/rain attenuation. > > Graham McIntire > Verona Networks > > > On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the >> trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side >> of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half >> mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 >> and a >> lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, >> but >> that's why I came here to ask. ;-) >> >> Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' >> of >> foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation >> >> >> > Mike, >> > >> > Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas >> > above the trees. >> > >> > jack >> > >> > >> > Mike Hammett wrote: >> >> Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making >> >> a >> >> link work. >> >> >> >> I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point >> >> within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I >> >> prefer >> >> to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I >> >>
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
oh, I rarely can see the AP on the other side, but a quick glance at The Dude shows a good majority of the links are better than -70. Heck, I have a 10 mile link where I have no idea where the AP is, but it pulls -75. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Sam Tetherow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation It works much like 900Mhz, in other words, you never REALLY know until you put the link up ;) I know that is not what you wanted to hear but honestly I have had links, both 2.4 and 5Ghz that I have said no way on, but they have worked quite well, and I have had others that for no apparent reason just plain suck (most likely a reflection somewhere is causing the issue and moving them around helped). At a 1/2 mile you should be pretty good if you generally can see the tower, but if you are shooting through a tree more often then not, you really should consider 2.4 or 900 quite honestly. One of the biggest things I learned about dealing with trees over the last 3 years is that they grow (duh! :) What works okay this season can really suck next season. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to troubleshoot a connection that has been rock solid for the past year and a half and now sucks. You finally go to the house thinking you have a radio problem, crawl up on the roof and realize that you can no longer see the AP. If you're lucky you can move the CPE to somewhere else on the roof. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Mike Hammett wrote: Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Graham McIntire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message ----- From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation > Mike, > > Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas > above the trees. > > jack > > > Mike Hammett wrote: >> Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making >> a >> link work. >> >> I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point >> within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I >> prefer >> to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I >> read >> said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. >> >> The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. >> Radio >> Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to >> see >> is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. >> >> Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? >> >>
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
Kinds? um...I know coniferous vs. deciduous and a couple different kinds of deciduous, but that's about it... Maple, crab apple, locust, that's about it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "CHUCK PROFITO" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation No one talks of the type of trees. We've noticed getting through a line of poplars, adjust antenna size, not much of a problem. But one pine tree, or a well placed ash, near impossible. Maybe the pine needles attenuate more because they are thin and in all directions thus absorbing all reflections ?? Anybody else see this. Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Graham McIntire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ----- Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation > Mike, > > Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas > above the trees. > > jack > > > Mike Hammett wrote: >> Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making >> a >> link work. >> >> I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point >> within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I >> prefer >> to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I >> read >> said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. >> >> The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. >> Radio >> Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to >> see >> is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. >> >> Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> > > -- > Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. > FCC License # PG-12-25133 > Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 > Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" > True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting > FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers > Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
The CPE is a LiteStation5 running OSWave firmware (stock LS5 firmware did not work with Routing/Nat/DHCP), in a 23 dBi ARC Wireless antenna. The trees around here (NE Dallas area) are some pine, oak, pecan, locust, etc. Right now the trees are a little damp from a ton of rain the past few days. Signal levels for the 3/4 mile link with ~1/4 mile trees is: -69 dBm Rx at the CPE -72 dBm Rx on the tower Without the trees that link would be WAY higher than that. I also have a client about 2.5 - 3 miles away NLOS (maybe 1 or 2 treelines) that sits around -80 dBm on both sides. He's been up for almost a year and I don't think it's ever dropped from attenuation. Right now 100% of my clients are on 5.8 GHz. After working with it in the field for a while I can vouch for it being one heck of a tricky animal. Links that look perfectly fine in radiomobile just flat out don't work, and others that RM shows will never work haven't even dropped a single time since they've been up. I just started adding 900 to my towers so I don't have to brute-force my way through iffy links with higher power on 5ghz. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Graham McIntire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation >I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz > sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles > out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. > > I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going > through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty > badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but > stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little > more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) > > Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even > with snow/rain attenuation. > > Graham McIntire > Verona Networks > > > On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the >> trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side >> of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half >> mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 >> and a >> lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, >> but >> that's why I came here to ask. ;-) >> >> Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' >> of >> foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation >> >> >> > Mike, >> > >> > Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas >> > above the trees. >> > >> > jack >> > >> > >> > Mike Hammett wrote: >> >> Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making >> >> a >> >> link work. >> >> >> >> I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point >> >> within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I >> >> prefer >> >> to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I >> >> read >> >> said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. >> >> >> >> The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. >> >> Radio >> >> Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to >> >> see >> >> is in the 60s with most in
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
It works much like 900Mhz, in other words, you never REALLY know until you put the link up ;) I know that is not what you wanted to hear but honestly I have had links, both 2.4 and 5Ghz that I have said no way on, but they have worked quite well, and I have had others that for no apparent reason just plain suck (most likely a reflection somewhere is causing the issue and moving them around helped). At a 1/2 mile you should be pretty good if you generally can see the tower, but if you are shooting through a tree more often then not, you really should consider 2.4 or 900 quite honestly. One of the biggest things I learned about dealing with trees over the last 3 years is that they grow (duh! :) What works okay this season can really suck next season. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to troubleshoot a connection that has been rock solid for the past year and a half and now sucks. You finally go to the house thinking you have a radio problem, crawl up on the roof and realize that you can no longer see the AP. If you're lucky you can move the CPE to somewhere else on the roof. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Mike Hammett wrote: Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Graham McIntire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation > Mike, > > Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas > above the trees. > > jack > > > Mike Hammett wrote: >> Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making >> a >> link work. >> >> I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point >> within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I >> prefer >> to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I >> read >> said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. >> >> The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. >> Radio >> Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to >> see >> is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. >> >> Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> > > -- > Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. > FCC License # PG-12-25133 > Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 > Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" > True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting > FCC Part 15 Certification for
RE: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
No one talks of the type of trees. We've noticed getting through a line of poplars, adjust antenna size, not much of a problem. But one pine tree, or a well placed ash, near impossible. Maybe the pine needles attenuate more because they are thin and in all directions thus absorbing all reflections ?? Anybody else see this. Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Graham McIntire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation >I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz > sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles > out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. > > I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going > through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty > badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but > stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little > more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) > > Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even > with snow/rain attenuation. > > Graham McIntire > Verona Networks > > > On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the >> trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side >> of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half >> mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 >> and a >> lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, >> but >> that's why I came here to ask. ;-) >> >> Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' >> of >> foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. >> >> >> ----- >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation >> >> >> > Mike, >> > >> > Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas >> > above the trees. >> > >> > jack >> > >> > >> > Mike Hammett wrote: >> >> Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making >> >> a >> >> link work. >> >> >> >> I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point >> >> within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I >> >> prefer >> >> to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I >> >> read >> >> said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. >> >> >> >> The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. >> >> Radio >> >> Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to >> >> see >> >> is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. >> >> >> >> Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? >> >> >> >> >> >> - >> >> Mike Hammett >> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. >> > FCC License # PG-12-25133 >> > Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 >> > Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Graham McIntire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation > Mike, > > Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas > above the trees. > > jack > > > Mike Hammett wrote: >> Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making >> a >> link work. >> >> I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point >> within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I >> prefer >> to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I >> read >> said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. >> >> The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. >> Radio >> Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to >> see >> is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. >> >> Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> > > -- > Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. > FCC License # PG-12-25133 > Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 > Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" > True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting > FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers > Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com > > > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation > Mike, > > Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas > above the trees. > > jack > > > Mike Hammett wrote: >> Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a >> link work. >> >> I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point >> within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer >> to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read >> said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. >> >> The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio >> Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see >> is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. >> >> Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> > > -- > Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. > FCC License # PG-12-25133 > Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 > Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" > True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting > FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers > Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com > > > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Mike, Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas above the trees. jack Mike Hammett wrote: Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
Mike, Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas above the trees. jack Mike Hammett wrote: Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
