Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
Not all Dual Pol antennas can be used like two seperate antennas, based on their design. However, I know the PacWireless dish can be. If one radio is on 5.3G and the other is on 5.8G, it will work no problem. It becomes more complicated, and more risky, to figure out how to get two 5.8G radios on it. Some have reported needing 80Mhz of channel seperation, to get OFDM working at a fast modulation. Some have suggested using a narrow (channel) cavity/bandpass filter, for each radio. If so, you could probably get it working with channels much closer togeather The only problem with going 5.3 and 5.8, is you are compromising 5.8G range to 5.3G's limits. I'd be a little concerned about using 5.3 and 5.4, just because of channels automattically hopping to close togeather. You'd probably have to remove channels from each of the scan tables, to prevent hopping to channels to close. The advantage of doing it with 2 completely seperate antennas, is that you can maintain flexibilty to use adjacent channels onyour radios if needed. Doing it with a single antenna, limits that. We are doing it with a PacWireless, because we ahve a monthly cost per antenna, so its worth the sacrifice in channel flexibilty or range, to use a single DP antenna. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Joe Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas Now for the 64 dollar question on dual pol antennas...Can one run 2 separate links using a Dual Pol Antenna pair. I'm looking at using 2 sets of Trango Link 45's. I would like to run 1 link Vertical and 1 link Horizional. using differant freqs of course. Can both of these links use the same dual pol antennas pair. I want to use one for a backup. Best Regards, DSLbyAir, LLC 228-238-2563 --- On Mon, 9/29/08, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 2:02 PM They have SNR but not RSSI, which Does that mean they can't do a spectrum scan to get rssi of AP? And need to be associated to get a SNR? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas The NS5 two small antennnas in it, one for each polarity. They have SNR but not RSSI, which I don't like. They don't currently do WPA2+WDS together very well; the firmware is improving quickly and has a lot of room for improvement, but is promising. You can't turn radio power down lower than 10dbm, and it's a 50/50 chance whether the radio will have an SMA or reverseSMA connector if you want to use an external antennas. I'd like to see a few more months of polishing before recommending them. We have only used them with MT and nanostation APs. On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 01:49:02PM -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote: Just looked up the Arc wireless 5.x DP subscriber antenna. Looks like a pretty awesome option. 20dbi DP for around $60 + $60 for mount and enclosure if desired. Thats makin' it real. Not to switch subjects but... The NanoStation5, has two 14dbi Dual pol antennas inside. A great value, for near range residential, for $100. Any negatives with these units (for their purpose)? Do they report full RF stats such as SNR and RSSI of the link? Have people found that they work well with StarOS and Mikrotik APs? (for their purpose of a single user residential type CPE) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas The MTI 5GHz dual-pol sectors we bought were around $600 if I remember correctly. Interesting. I wasn't saying that it isn't hard. Some manufacturers have found easy and cost effective ways to make Dual Pol antennas. But I'm guessing there could be some intelectual property patent issues, or anyone to do it? But there has to be some savings attributed to shared costs such as ... mounts, case, shipping costs, overhead, distributor markup, RD. These things are all a tangable cost that goes toward the cost of a single pol antenna, and are not increased when the inside of the antenna design gets modified to be DP. I'd be intereted in what percentage of a single pol antenna cost is for the above 4 things compared to the element itself. Truthfully, we have come a long way with DP design and price for parabolics
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
The NS5 two small antennnas in it, one for each polarity. They have SNR but not RSSI, which I don't like. They don't currently do WPA2+WDS together very well; the firmware is improving quickly and has a lot of room for improvement, but is promising. You can't turn radio power down lower than 10dbm, and it's a 50/50 chance whether the radio will have an SMA or reverseSMA connector if you want to use an external antennas. I'd like to see a few more months of polishing before recommending them. We have only used them with MT and nanostation APs. On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 01:49:02PM -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote: Just looked up the Arc wireless 5.x DP subscriber antenna. Looks like a pretty awesome option. 20dbi DP for around $60 + $60 for mount and enclosure if desired. Thats makin' it real. Not to switch subjects but... The NanoStation5, has two 14dbi Dual pol antennas inside. A great value, for near range residential, for $100. Any negatives with these units (for their purpose)? Do they report full RF stats such as SNR and RSSI of the link? Have people found that they work well with StarOS and Mikrotik APs? (for their purpose of a single user residential type CPE) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas The MTI 5GHz dual-pol sectors we bought were around $600 if I remember correctly. Interesting. I wasn't saying that it isn't hard. Some manufacturers have found easy and cost effective ways to make Dual Pol antennas. But I'm guessing there could be some intelectual property patent issues, or anyone to do it? But there has to be some savings attributed to shared costs such as ... mounts, case, shipping costs, overhead, distributor markup, RD. These things are all a tangable cost that goes toward the cost of a single pol antenna, and are not increased when the inside of the antenna design gets modified to be DP. I'd be intereted in what percentage of a single pol antenna cost is for the above 4 things compared to the element itself. Truthfully, we have come a long way with DP design and price for parabolics and subscriber panels. What realy confuses me is, why manufacturers still can;t come up with a low cost DP AP sector antenna? Its ironic as heck, that trango can sell an entire AP radio and int DP sector antenna, for less than third parties sell a single DP sector antenna by itself. Thats still the missing peice of the puzzle in 5.x Ghz DP. Its Ironic as heck... Titltek can make a 4ft 900Mhz dual pol 90deg for under $700. But can't find a 2ft 5.x Ghz Dp 90 for less than a grand. The last few I did, I took my old Trango 5800s, drill holes in them for the pigtails, took out the SBC, and used them for the antenna. It was cheaper than buying an antenna. A couple vendors have represented that they can make them. But I don't see part numbers listed. I'd love to see these in the sub $300 range. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A dual pol panel antenna can be an order of magnitude more difficult to make than a single linear polarized antenna. Almost all panel antennas are either an array of patches or an array of butterfly dipole elements over a ground plane. Most designers are trying to put as much gain in the area as they can. The means the feed network and driven elements are crammed in so close together that you suffer some degradation. To make a dual pol patch you have to use a square patch. That already is less than optimum. Then you have to produce a second feed mechanism for feeding the second feed point on all the patches. That means other layers and intermediate ground planes etc. Not easy at all. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas Drew, Who sells/stocks it? I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol 25dbi for about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get affordable. I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on tower sites where I get charge per antenna. However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more expensive to add a couple more elements for the second pol. Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model. I think
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
They have SNR but not RSSI, which Does that mean they can't do a spectrum scan to get rssi of AP? And need to be associated to get a SNR? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas The NS5 two small antennnas in it, one for each polarity. They have SNR but not RSSI, which I don't like. They don't currently do WPA2+WDS together very well; the firmware is improving quickly and has a lot of room for improvement, but is promising. You can't turn radio power down lower than 10dbm, and it's a 50/50 chance whether the radio will have an SMA or reverseSMA connector if you want to use an external antennas. I'd like to see a few more months of polishing before recommending them. We have only used them with MT and nanostation APs. On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 01:49:02PM -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote: Just looked up the Arc wireless 5.x DP subscriber antenna. Looks like a pretty awesome option. 20dbi DP for around $60 + $60 for mount and enclosure if desired. Thats makin' it real. Not to switch subjects but... The NanoStation5, has two 14dbi Dual pol antennas inside. A great value, for near range residential, for $100. Any negatives with these units (for their purpose)? Do they report full RF stats such as SNR and RSSI of the link? Have people found that they work well with StarOS and Mikrotik APs? (for their purpose of a single user residential type CPE) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas The MTI 5GHz dual-pol sectors we bought were around $600 if I remember correctly. Interesting. I wasn't saying that it isn't hard. Some manufacturers have found easy and cost effective ways to make Dual Pol antennas. But I'm guessing there could be some intelectual property patent issues, or anyone to do it? But there has to be some savings attributed to shared costs such as ... mounts, case, shipping costs, overhead, distributor markup, RD. These things are all a tangable cost that goes toward the cost of a single pol antenna, and are not increased when the inside of the antenna design gets modified to be DP. I'd be intereted in what percentage of a single pol antenna cost is for the above 4 things compared to the element itself. Truthfully, we have come a long way with DP design and price for parabolics and subscriber panels. What realy confuses me is, why manufacturers still can;t come up with a low cost DP AP sector antenna? Its ironic as heck, that trango can sell an entire AP radio and int DP sector antenna, for less than third parties sell a single DP sector antenna by itself. Thats still the missing peice of the puzzle in 5.x Ghz DP. Its Ironic as heck... Titltek can make a 4ft 900Mhz dual pol 90deg for under $700. But can't find a 2ft 5.x Ghz Dp 90 for less than a grand. The last few I did, I took my old Trango 5800s, drill holes in them for the pigtails, took out the SBC, and used them for the antenna. It was cheaper than buying an antenna. A couple vendors have represented that they can make them. But I don't see part numbers listed. I'd love to see these in the sub $300 range. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A dual pol panel antenna can be an order of magnitude more difficult to make than a single linear polarized antenna. Almost all panel antennas are either an array of patches or an array of butterfly dipole elements over a ground plane. Most designers are trying to put as much gain in the area as they can. The means the feed network and driven elements are crammed in so close together that you suffer some degradation. To make a dual pol patch you have to use a square patch. That already is less than optimum. Then you have to produce a second feed mechanism for feeding the second feed point on all the patches. That means other layers and intermediate ground planes etc. Not easy at all. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas Drew, Who sells/stocks it? I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol 25dbi for about $200, I think
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
If you do a spectrum scan it shows signals of other APs in dbm. If you use have one as a station, it shows dbm on the main page. On an AP, if you show stations (list of associated stations), it shows a positive integer RSSI which I would presume is the same as SNR as it's definitely not dbm. (I am told to add -97 to it to get dbm) So you get dbm on the stations, on surveys, but not on the AP for the radios associated. On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 02:02:40PM -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote: They have SNR but not RSSI, which Does that mean they can't do a spectrum scan to get rssi of AP? And need to be associated to get a SNR? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas The NS5 two small antennnas in it, one for each polarity. They have SNR but not RSSI, which I don't like. They don't currently do WPA2+WDS together very well; the firmware is improving quickly and has a lot of room for improvement, but is promising. You can't turn radio power down lower than 10dbm, and it's a 50/50 chance whether the radio will have an SMA or reverseSMA connector if you want to use an external antennas. I'd like to see a few more months of polishing before recommending them. We have only used them with MT and nanostation APs. On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 01:49:02PM -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote: Just looked up the Arc wireless 5.x DP subscriber antenna. Looks like a pretty awesome option. 20dbi DP for around $60 + $60 for mount and enclosure if desired. Thats makin' it real. Not to switch subjects but... The NanoStation5, has two 14dbi Dual pol antennas inside. A great value, for near range residential, for $100. Any negatives with these units (for their purpose)? Do they report full RF stats such as SNR and RSSI of the link? Have people found that they work well with StarOS and Mikrotik APs? (for their purpose of a single user residential type CPE) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas The MTI 5GHz dual-pol sectors we bought were around $600 if I remember correctly. Interesting. I wasn't saying that it isn't hard. Some manufacturers have found easy and cost effective ways to make Dual Pol antennas. But I'm guessing there could be some intelectual property patent issues, or anyone to do it? But there has to be some savings attributed to shared costs such as ... mounts, case, shipping costs, overhead, distributor markup, RD. These things are all a tangable cost that goes toward the cost of a single pol antenna, and are not increased when the inside of the antenna design gets modified to be DP. I'd be intereted in what percentage of a single pol antenna cost is for the above 4 things compared to the element itself. Truthfully, we have come a long way with DP design and price for parabolics and subscriber panels. What realy confuses me is, why manufacturers still can;t come up with a low cost DP AP sector antenna? Its ironic as heck, that trango can sell an entire AP radio and int DP sector antenna, for less than third parties sell a single DP sector antenna by itself. Thats still the missing peice of the puzzle in 5.x Ghz DP. Its Ironic as heck... Titltek can make a 4ft 900Mhz dual pol 90deg for under $700. But can't find a 2ft 5.x Ghz Dp 90 for less than a grand. The last few I did, I took my old Trango 5800s, drill holes in them for the pigtails, took out the SBC, and used them for the antenna. It was cheaper than buying an antenna. A couple vendors have represented that they can make them. But I don't see part numbers listed. I'd love to see these in the sub $300 range. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A dual pol panel antenna can be an order of magnitude more difficult to make than a single linear polarized antenna. Almost all panel antennas are either an array of patches or an array of butterfly dipole elements over a ground plane. Most designers are trying to put as much gain in the area as they can. The means the feed network and driven elements are crammed in so close together that you suffer some degradation. To make
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
Now for the 64 dollar question on dual pol antennas...Can one run 2 separate links using a Dual Pol Antenna pair. I'm looking at using 2 sets of Trango Link 45's. I would like to run 1 link Vertical and 1 link Horizional. using differant freqs of course. Can both of these links use the same dual pol antennas pair. I want to use one for a backup. Best Regards, DSLbyAir, LLC 228-238-2563 --- On Mon, 9/29/08, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 2:02 PM They have SNR but not RSSI, which Does that mean they can't do a spectrum scan to get rssi of AP? And need to be associated to get a SNR? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas The NS5 two small antennnas in it, one for each polarity. They have SNR but not RSSI, which I don't like. They don't currently do WPA2+WDS together very well; the firmware is improving quickly and has a lot of room for improvement, but is promising. You can't turn radio power down lower than 10dbm, and it's a 50/50 chance whether the radio will have an SMA or reverseSMA connector if you want to use an external antennas. I'd like to see a few more months of polishing before recommending them. We have only used them with MT and nanostation APs. On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 01:49:02PM -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote: Just looked up the Arc wireless 5.x DP subscriber antenna. Looks like a pretty awesome option. 20dbi DP for around $60 + $60 for mount and enclosure if desired. Thats makin' it real. Not to switch subjects but... The NanoStation5, has two 14dbi Dual pol antennas inside. A great value, for near range residential, for $100. Any negatives with these units (for their purpose)? Do they report full RF stats such as SNR and RSSI of the link? Have people found that they work well with StarOS and Mikrotik APs? (for their purpose of a single user residential type CPE) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas The MTI 5GHz dual-pol sectors we bought were around $600 if I remember correctly. Interesting. I wasn't saying that it isn't hard. Some manufacturers have found easy and cost effective ways to make Dual Pol antennas. But I'm guessing there could be some intelectual property patent issues, or anyone to do it? But there has to be some savings attributed to shared costs such as ... mounts, case, shipping costs, overhead, distributor markup, RD. These things are all a tangable cost that goes toward the cost of a single pol antenna, and are not increased when the inside of the antenna design gets modified to be DP. I'd be intereted in what percentage of a single pol antenna cost is for the above 4 things compared to the element itself. Truthfully, we have come a long way with DP design and price for parabolics and subscriber panels. What realy confuses me is, why manufacturers still can;t come up with a low cost DP AP sector antenna? Its ironic as heck, that trango can sell an entire AP radio and int DP sector antenna, for less than third parties sell a single DP sector antenna by itself. Thats still the missing peice of the puzzle in 5.x Ghz DP. Its Ironic as heck... Titltek can make a 4ft 900Mhz dual pol 90deg for under $700. But can't find a 2ft 5.x Ghz Dp 90 for less than a grand. The last few I did, I took my old Trango 5800s, drill holes in them for the pigtails, took out the SBC, and used them for the antenna. It was cheaper than buying an antenna. A couple vendors have represented that they can make them. But I don't see part numbers listed. I'd love to see these in the sub $300 range. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A dual pol panel antenna can be an order of magnitude more difficult to make than a single linear polarized antenna. Almost all panel antennas are either an array of patches or an array of butterfly dipole elements over a ground plane. Most designers are trying to put as much gain
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
We do this with Motorola gear that is synchronized. Unsynched gear may not work well as the isolation between polarizations is not that great. One transmitter will be getting into the other receiver. It may be 20 dB down, but if it is coming out at +27 dBm it will still be hitting the input of the other unit at +7dBm. That is a powerful amount of interference. - Original Message - From: Joe Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas Now for the 64 dollar question on dual pol antennas...Can one run 2 separate links using a Dual Pol Antenna pair. I'm looking at using 2 sets of Trango Link 45's. I would like to run 1 link Vertical and 1 link Horizional. using differant freqs of course. Can both of these links use the same dual pol antennas pair. I want to use one for a backup. Best Regards, DSLbyAir, LLC 228-238-2563 --- On Mon, 9/29/08, Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 2:02 PM They have SNR but not RSSI, which Does that mean they can't do a spectrum scan to get rssi of AP? And need to be associated to get a SNR? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: jp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas The NS5 two small antennnas in it, one for each polarity. They have SNR but not RSSI, which I don't like. They don't currently do WPA2+WDS together very well; the firmware is improving quickly and has a lot of room for improvement, but is promising. You can't turn radio power down lower than 10dbm, and it's a 50/50 chance whether the radio will have an SMA or reverseSMA connector if you want to use an external antennas. I'd like to see a few more months of polishing before recommending them. We have only used them with MT and nanostation APs. On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 01:49:02PM -0500, Tom DeReggi wrote: Just looked up the Arc wireless 5.x DP subscriber antenna. Looks like a pretty awesome option. 20dbi DP for around $60 + $60 for mount and enclosure if desired. Thats makin' it real. Not to switch subjects but... The NanoStation5, has two 14dbi Dual pol antennas inside. A great value, for near range residential, for $100. Any negatives with these units (for their purpose)? Do they report full RF stats such as SNR and RSSI of the link? Have people found that they work well with StarOS and Mikrotik APs? (for their purpose of a single user residential type CPE) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas The MTI 5GHz dual-pol sectors we bought were around $600 if I remember correctly. Interesting. I wasn't saying that it isn't hard. Some manufacturers have found easy and cost effective ways to make Dual Pol antennas. But I'm guessing there could be some intelectual property patent issues, or anyone to do it? But there has to be some savings attributed to shared costs such as ... mounts, case, shipping costs, overhead, distributor markup, RD. These things are all a tangable cost that goes toward the cost of a single pol antenna, and are not increased when the inside of the antenna design gets modified to be DP. I'd be intereted in what percentage of a single pol antenna cost is for the above 4 things compared to the element itself. Truthfully, we have come a long way with DP design and price for parabolics and subscriber panels. What realy confuses me is, why manufacturers still can;t come up with a low cost DP AP sector antenna? Its ironic as heck, that trango can sell an entire AP radio and int DP sector antenna, for less than third parties sell a single DP sector antenna by itself. Thats still the missing peice of the puzzle in 5.x Ghz DP. Its Ironic as heck... Titltek can make a 4ft 900Mhz dual pol 90deg for under $700. But can't find a 2ft 5.x Ghz Dp 90 for less than a grand. The last few I did, I took my old Trango 5800s, drill holes in them for the pigtails, took out the SBC, and used them for the antenna. It was cheaper than buying an antenna. A couple vendors have represented that they can make them. But I don't see part numbers listed. I'd love to see these in the sub $300 range. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
The MTI 5GHz dual-pol sectors we bought were around $600 if I remember correctly. Interesting. I wasn't saying that it isn't hard. Some manufacturers have found easy and cost effective ways to make Dual Pol antennas. But I'm guessing there could be some intelectual property patent issues, or anyone to do it? But there has to be some savings attributed to shared costs such as ... mounts, case, shipping costs, overhead, distributor markup, RD. These things are all a tangable cost that goes toward the cost of a single pol antenna, and are not increased when the inside of the antenna design gets modified to be DP. I'd be intereted in what percentage of a single pol antenna cost is for the above 4 things compared to the element itself. Truthfully, we have come a long way with DP design and price for parabolics and subscriber panels. What realy confuses me is, why manufacturers still can;t come up with a low cost DP AP sector antenna? Its ironic as heck, that trango can sell an entire AP radio and int DP sector antenna, for less than third parties sell a single DP sector antenna by itself. Thats still the missing peice of the puzzle in 5.x Ghz DP. Its Ironic as heck... Titltek can make a 4ft 900Mhz dual pol 90deg for under $700. But can't find a 2ft 5.x Ghz Dp 90 for less than a grand. The last few I did, I took my old Trango 5800s, drill holes in them for the pigtails, took out the SBC, and used them for the antenna. It was cheaper than buying an antenna. A couple vendors have represented that they can make them. But I don't see part numbers listed. I'd love to see these in the sub $300 range. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A dual pol panel antenna can be an order of magnitude more difficult to make than a single linear polarized antenna. Almost all panel antennas are either an array of patches or an array of butterfly dipole elements over a ground plane. Most designers are trying to put as much gain in the area as they can. The means the feed network and driven elements are crammed in so close together that you suffer some degradation. To make a dual pol patch you have to use a square patch. That already is less than optimum. Then you have to produce a second feed mechanism for feeding the second feed point on all the patches. That means other layers and intermediate ground planes etc. Not easy at all. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas Drew, Who sells/stocks it? I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol 25dbi for about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get affordable. I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on tower sites where I get charge per antenna. However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more expensive to add a couple more elements for the second pol. Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model. I think there is a huge market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP really has to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just install two single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on customer roofs where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain panels couldn't be made and sold for sub $125. Don't get me wrong, its still good news to learn of new DP panels available as option. Trango also has their external model, but its about $300. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars WA56-DP25N. It's a pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2 versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure. Its ~ $260. I know its not $150, but its not too bad! -d On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote: A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz. You'll get the same gain on both polarities. But there's noting I know of less than $150. Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade varieties. Mike From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
Just looked up the Arc wireless 5.x DP subscriber antenna. Looks like a pretty awesome option. 20dbi DP for around $60 + $60 for mount and enclosure if desired. Thats makin' it real. Not to switch subjects but... The NanoStation5, has two 14dbi Dual pol antennas inside. A great value, for near range residential, for $100. Any negatives with these units (for their purpose)? Do they report full RF stats such as SNR and RSSI of the link? Have people found that they work well with StarOS and Mikrotik APs? (for their purpose of a single user residential type CPE) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas The MTI 5GHz dual-pol sectors we bought were around $600 if I remember correctly. Interesting. I wasn't saying that it isn't hard. Some manufacturers have found easy and cost effective ways to make Dual Pol antennas. But I'm guessing there could be some intelectual property patent issues, or anyone to do it? But there has to be some savings attributed to shared costs such as ... mounts, case, shipping costs, overhead, distributor markup, RD. These things are all a tangable cost that goes toward the cost of a single pol antenna, and are not increased when the inside of the antenna design gets modified to be DP. I'd be intereted in what percentage of a single pol antenna cost is for the above 4 things compared to the element itself. Truthfully, we have come a long way with DP design and price for parabolics and subscriber panels. What realy confuses me is, why manufacturers still can;t come up with a low cost DP AP sector antenna? Its ironic as heck, that trango can sell an entire AP radio and int DP sector antenna, for less than third parties sell a single DP sector antenna by itself. Thats still the missing peice of the puzzle in 5.x Ghz DP. Its Ironic as heck... Titltek can make a 4ft 900Mhz dual pol 90deg for under $700. But can't find a 2ft 5.x Ghz Dp 90 for less than a grand. The last few I did, I took my old Trango 5800s, drill holes in them for the pigtails, took out the SBC, and used them for the antenna. It was cheaper than buying an antenna. A couple vendors have represented that they can make them. But I don't see part numbers listed. I'd love to see these in the sub $300 range. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A dual pol panel antenna can be an order of magnitude more difficult to make than a single linear polarized antenna. Almost all panel antennas are either an array of patches or an array of butterfly dipole elements over a ground plane. Most designers are trying to put as much gain in the area as they can. The means the feed network and driven elements are crammed in so close together that you suffer some degradation. To make a dual pol patch you have to use a square patch. That already is less than optimum. Then you have to produce a second feed mechanism for feeding the second feed point on all the patches. That means other layers and intermediate ground planes etc. Not easy at all. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas Drew, Who sells/stocks it? I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol 25dbi for about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get affordable. I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on tower sites where I get charge per antenna. However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more expensive to add a couple more elements for the second pol. Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model. I think there is a huge market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP really has to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just install two single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on customer roofs where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain panels couldn't be made and sold for sub $125. Don't get me wrong, its still good news to learn of new DP panels available as option. Trango also has their external model, but its about $300. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
Drew, Who sells/stocks it? I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol 25dbi for about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get affordable. I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on tower sites where I get charge per antenna. However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more expensive to add a couple more elements for the second pol. Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model. I think there is a huge market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP really has to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just install two single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on customer roofs where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain panels couldn't be made and sold for sub $125. Don't get me wrong, its still good news to learn of new DP panels available as option. Trango also has their external model, but its about $300. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars WA56-DP25N. It's a pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2 versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure. Its ~ $260. I know its not $150, but its not too bad! -d On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote: A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz. You'll get the same gain on both polarities. But there's noting I know of less than $150. Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade varieties. Mike From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious I'm looking for a dual pol antenna... What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V- Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain. A narrow beam width is a plus. A grid or a dish will be fine. I'd like to keep the price down as if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective. I can mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to. This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of about 50ft of LMR-400. Thanks for any ideas Blair This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. winmail.dat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
Well, at $150 each, thats great! Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas We use the MTI MT-485025/NVH, 23dBi dual-pol panel and have found them as low as $150 each. !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN html head /head body bgcolor=#ff text=#00 All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curiousbr br I'm looking for a dual pol antenna...br br What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V-Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain. A narrow beam width is a plus.br br A grid or a dish will be fine. I'd like to keep the price down as if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective. I can mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to.br br This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of about 50ft of LMR-400.br br Thanks for any ideasbr br Blairbr br /body /html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
A dual pol panel antenna can be an order of magnitude more difficult to make than a single linear polarized antenna. Almost all panel antennas are either an array of patches or an array of butterfly dipole elements over a ground plane. Most designers are trying to put as much gain in the area as they can. The means the feed network and driven elements are crammed in so close together that you suffer some degradation. To make a dual pol patch you have to use a square patch. That already is less than optimum. Then you have to produce a second feed mechanism for feeding the second feed point on all the patches. That means other layers and intermediate ground planes etc. Not easy at all. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas Drew, Who sells/stocks it? I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol 25dbi for about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get affordable. I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on tower sites where I get charge per antenna. However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more expensive to add a couple more elements for the second pol. Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model. I think there is a huge market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP really has to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just install two single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on customer roofs where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain panels couldn't be made and sold for sub $125. Don't get me wrong, its still good news to learn of new DP panels available as option. Trango also has their external model, but its about $300. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars WA56-DP25N. It's a pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2 versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure. Its ~ $260. I know its not $150, but its not too bad! -d On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote: A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz. You'll get the same gain on both polarities. But there's noting I know of less than $150. Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade varieties. Mike From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious I'm looking for a dual pol antenna... What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V- Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain. A narrow beam width is a plus. A grid or a dish will be fine. I'd like to keep the price down as if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective. I can mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to. This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of about 50ft of LMR-400. Thanks for any ideas Blair This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. winmail.dat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
I dont want to sound like a commercial on the list until everything is squared away with our vendor membership but you can contact me off- list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;-) thanks! -drew On Sep 27, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: Drew, Who sells/stocks it? I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol 25dbi for about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get affordable. I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on tower sites where I get charge per antenna. However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more expensive to add a couple more elements for the second pol. Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model. I think there is a huge market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP really has to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just install two single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on customer roofs where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain panels couldn't be made and sold for sub $125. Don't get me wrong, its still good news to learn of new DP panels available as option. Trango also has their external model, but its about $300. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars WA56-DP25N. It's a pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2 versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure. Its ~ $260. I know its not $150, but its not too bad! -d On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote: A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz. You'll get the same gain on both polarities. But there's noting I know of less than $150. Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade varieties. Mike From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious I'm looking for a dual pol antenna... What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V- Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain. A narrow beam width is a plus. A grid or a dish will be fine. I'd like to keep the price down as if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective. I can mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to. This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of about 50ft of LMR-400. Thanks for any ideas Blair This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. winmail.dat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
ARC makes a 20dbi dual pol antenna for pretty cheap. We've used some of the single pol antennas and they are not too shabby for the price. http://www.streakwave.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=ARC-ID5820B01eq=Tp= Worth a shot for the price. ~Cameron Midcoast Internet -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Drew Lentz Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 7:51 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas I dont want to sound like a commercial on the list until everything is squared away with our vendor membership but you can contact me off- list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ;-) thanks! -drew On Sep 27, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Tom DeReggi wrote: Drew, Who sells/stocks it? I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol 25dbi for about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get affordable. I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on tower sites where I get charge per antenna. However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more expensive to add a couple more elements for the second pol. Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model. I think there is a huge market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP really has to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just install two single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on customer roofs where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain panels couldn't be made and sold for sub $125. Don't get me wrong, its still good news to learn of new DP panels available as option. Trango also has their external model, but its about $300. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars WA56-DP25N. It's a pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2 versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure. Its ~ $260. I know its not $150, but its not too bad! -d On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote: A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz. You'll get the same gain on both polarities. But there's noting I know of less than $150. Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade varieties. Mike From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious I'm looking for a dual pol antenna... What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V- Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain. A narrow beam width is a plus. A grid or a dish will be fine. I'd like to keep the price down as if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective. I can mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to. This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of about 50ft of LMR-400. Thanks for any ideas Blair This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. winmail.dat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
Interesting. I wasn't saying that it isn't hard. Some manufacturers have found easy and cost effective ways to make Dual Pol antennas. But I'm guessing there could be some intelectual property patent issues, or anyone to do it? But there has to be some savings attributed to shared costs such as ... mounts, case, shipping costs, overhead, distributor markup, RD. These things are all a tangable cost that goes toward the cost of a single pol antenna, and are not increased when the inside of the antenna design gets modified to be DP. I'd be intereted in what percentage of a single pol antenna cost is for the above 4 things compared to the element itself. Truthfully, we have come a long way with DP design and price for parabolics and subscriber panels. What realy confuses me is, why manufacturers still can;t come up with a low cost DP AP sector antenna? Its ironic as heck, that trango can sell an entire AP radio and int DP sector antenna, for less than third parties sell a single DP sector antenna by itself. Thats still the missing peice of the puzzle in 5.x Ghz DP. Its Ironic as heck... Titltek can make a 4ft 900Mhz dual pol 90deg for under $700. But can't find a 2ft 5.x Ghz Dp 90 for less than a grand. The last few I did, I took my old Trango 5800s, drill holes in them for the pigtails, took out the SBC, and used them for the antenna. It was cheaper than buying an antenna. A couple vendors have represented that they can make them. But I don't see part numbers listed. I'd love to see these in the sub $300 range. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown - 3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A dual pol panel antenna can be an order of magnitude more difficult to make than a single linear polarized antenna. Almost all panel antennas are either an array of patches or an array of butterfly dipole elements over a ground plane. Most designers are trying to put as much gain in the area as they can. The means the feed network and driven elements are crammed in so close together that you suffer some degradation. To make a dual pol patch you have to use a square patch. That already is less than optimum. Then you have to produce a second feed mechanism for feeding the second feed point on all the patches. That means other layers and intermediate ground planes etc. Not easy at all. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas Drew, Who sells/stocks it? I also saw someone was selling what looked like the MTI Dual pol 25dbi for about $200, I think it was wlanparts.com. Thats starting to get affordable. I'm fine with Dual Pol dishes for $225, its a lot of metal. Plus there usually needed for more critical links. Also used more often on tower sites where I get charge per antenna. However, when a standard panel is only $50, it can't be that more expensive to add a couple more elements for the second pol. Clearly a lot of markup fat in the price model. I think there is a huge market for the dual pol Panels at sub $150, but at $250, a WISP really has to think about whether its worth their while, when they can just install two single pol antennas side by side. Expecially if isntalled on customer roofs where there aren;t colo fees. I see no reasons that the smaller gain panels couldn't be made and sold for sub $125. Don't get me wrong, its still good news to learn of new DP panels available as option. Trango also has their external model, but its about $300. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Drew Lentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars WA56-DP25N. It's a pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2 versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure. Its ~ $260. I know its not $150, but its not too bad! -d On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote: A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz. You'll get the same gain on both polarities. But there's noting I know of less than $150. Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade varieties. Mike From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
Yeah pretty sure we have some of the MTIs if that is what you are looking for. Email me. -Jeff General Manager CTI (773) 667-4585 x2509 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 12:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas We use the MTI MT-485025/NVH, 23dBi dual-pol panel and have found them as low as $150 each. !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN html head /head body bgcolor=#ff text=#00 All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curiousbr br I'm looking for a dual pol antenna...br br What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V-Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain. A narrow beam width is a plus.br br A grid or a dish will be fine. I'd like to keep the price down as if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective. I can mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to.br br This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of about 50ft of LMR-400.br br Thanks for any ideasbr br Blairbr br /body /html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
A product I really like for dual-pole is the Mars WA56-DP25N. It's a pretty inexpensive panel from 4.9 - 5.875 @ 25dBi .. There are 2 versions, 1 is the antenna alone, the other is with an enclosure. Its ~ $260. I know its not $150, but its not too bad! -d On Sep 25, 2008, at 10:04 PM, Mike Brownson wrote: A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz. You'll get the same gain on both polarities. But there's noting I know of less than $150. Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade varieties. Mike From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious I'm looking for a dual pol antenna... What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V- Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain. A narrow beam width is a plus. A grid or a dish will be fine. I'd like to keep the price down as if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective. I can mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to. This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of about 50ft of LMR-400. Thanks for any ideas Blair This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. winmail.dat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
A broadband dual pol dish will work from 5.2 to 5.9Ghz. You'll get the same gain on both polarities. But there's noting I know of less than $150. Usually dual pol dishes are used where you may need a higher quality antenna, so all the manufacturers I know of (RadioWaves, Maxrad, Pac Wireless) for dual pol are the higher grade varieties. Mike From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Blair Davis Sent: Thu 9/25/2008 8:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious I'm looking for a dual pol antenna... What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V-Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain. A narrow beam width is a plus. A grid or a dish will be fine. I'd like to keep the price down as if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective. I can mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to. This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of about 50ft of LMR-400. Thanks for any ideas Blair This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. winmail.dat WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
At 2000 feet a paper clip would work. - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 7:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curious I'm looking for a dual pol antenna... What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V-Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain. A narrow beam width is a plus. A grid or a dish will be fine. I'd like to keep the price down as if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective. I can mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to. This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of about 50ft of LMR-400. Thanks for any ideas Blair -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Dual Pol Antennas
We use the MTI MT-485025/NVH, 23dBi dual-pol panel and have found them as low as $150 each. !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN html head /head body bgcolor=#ff text=#00 All this talk about Dual Pol feedhorns has got me curiousbr br I'm looking for a dual pol antenna...br br What I need is H-Pol on 5.3GHz band with 18db or more of gain and V-Pol on 5.8GHz with 15db or more of gain. A narrow beam width is a plus.br br A grid or a dish will be fine. I'd like to keep the price down as if it is over $150 or so, it really won't be cost effective. I can mount 2 antennas at this location if I have to.br br This is for a short link, about 2000ft, but it will be at the end of about 50ft of LMR-400.br br Thanks for any ideasbr br Blairbr br /body /html WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
