RE: How many drops 802.11ac phase 2
What brand of APs are you using? Aruba APs will only accept PoE from the first Ethernet port. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer - Wireless Team IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: John Center [mailto:john.cen...@villanova.edu] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:44 PM Subject: Re: How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Philippe, Another reason for 2 drops is resiliency. I envision connecting the AP's 2 ports to a 2-switch stack. We rarely see the need for redundant power supplies in an edge switch, but have seen failure on a switch ASIC cause one or more ports to go dead. With 2 connections, one switch having issues won't take out the AP. I think LAG'g both ports across the stack supporting LACP will become a future requirement. -John -- John Center Villanova University On 02/07/2014 10:21 AM, Hanset, Philippe C wrote: Is the main justification for two drops due to power/bandwidth/the-two? With many services and most killer apps going to the cloud, I would suspect that the bandwidth to the WAN is so limiting, that this excess of capacity on Wireless is a complete overkill (a vendor driven non-sense). Yes, those 802.11ac Phase2 APs can generate a lot more than 1 Gbps, but that's is shared bandwidth (half-duplex), and your uplink is 1 Gbps full-duplex (2 Gbps in Cisco math as we said in the old days). So, you really plan to also uplink your switches with 40 Gbps, and then a core at many times 100 Gbps, all connected to your ISP at a few Gbps... something doesn't add up here. Am I alone making bad accounting here? Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us http://www.eduroam.us On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:58 AM, James Robert Kennon jken...@gsu.edu mailto:jken...@gsu.edu wrote: We just made a call on a new building and decided not to incur cost of 2 cables per drop at this time. Hope we don't regret it later. From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:56:31 + To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 We'll be running two, until some sanity emerges. - --- *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf of Brian David brian.da...@bc.edu mailto:brian.da...@bc.edu *Sent:* Friday, February 7, 2014 9:54 AM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 All, I wanted to see how many people were planning on running 2 drops to 802.11ac phase 2 access points? Currently we are just doing a one for one swap when replacing an older a/b/g AP's with 802.11ac phase 1 AP's When you have new construction, do you plan on running 2 drops so when phase 2 come into play you will be all set for it? */Brian J David/* */Network Systems/* */Boston College/* image003.jpg ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] DAS Wireless
Haven't had too much experience with DAS systems; however, the stadiums scenarios are understandable. With 100,000+ people (and at least 1 wireless device per person) in a defined area, I'm sure it put stress on the nearby communication towers, resulting in poor reception\speeds for the end user. With DAS in the stadium, users will get much better performance (example use cases: more Instagram uploads - just think how many Instavideos were uploaded at the end of the Alabama/Auburn game, better streaming on ESPN Watch app to watch other games, or stream Netflix to keep uninterested children entertained). The case of DAS in the stadiums is understandable; however, I am not sure on its benefit to be installed throughout campus. I believe it depends on your scenario. I would say to make sure you have a reasonable ROI. P.S. Mr. Watters, sorry about the Alabama/Auburn reference :) Damien Cameron Network Engineer Norfolk State University Office of Information Technology Marie v. McDemmond Center for applied Research Room 401 555 Park Avenue Norfolk, VA 23504 O: (757) 823-9123 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Watters, John Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:38 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] DAS Wireless Did they only do DAS in your stadium? Or, did they also do 802.11 there and/or other places? We have a DAS system in our stadium that ATT and Verizon jointly funded. It seems to be doing fairly well. They share a rather small room for their head-end stuff. It's interesting to see the differences between the equipment used by these two carriers. -jcw [cid:image001.jpg@01CF26FD.A6102110] John Watters The University of Alabama Office of Information Technology 205-348-3992 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hanset, Philippe C Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 4:24 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] DAS Wireless University of Tennessee Knoxville entered into such an agreement. Their interest was to cover the Stadium. It's done, and it seems to work well. There are many providers of such service, and UTK used a competitive bidding. Two things that I can remember from that agreement: -Once the initial contract is signed (revenue sharing, infrastructure, etc...), it takes also a long time to sign a contract with each carrier that will join the shared infrastructure. -Also, the late Dewitt Latimer was always warning campuses: If carriers are interested in one particular location of your campus (because they can reach other interesting locations from there), make sure to negotiate a complete coverage, don't allow a partial one that is only in the interest of the carrier! Be ready for many back and forth between the two legal department! Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.ushttp://www.eduroam.us On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:22 AM, Ray DeJean r...@selu.edumailto:r...@selu.edu wrote: All, We've been approached by wireless company to install a DAS (distributed antenna system) throughout our campus. They would then market the system to local carriers, which would increase their coverage (we have pretty poor ATT service on campus). There would be revenue sharing and they've offered to assist in expanding our 802.11 coverage as well. Just wondering if anyone else has entered into a similar agreement with a wireless company, and how it's working out for you. thanks, Ray -- Ray DeJean Systems Engineer Southeastern Louisiana University email: r...@selu.edumailto:r...@selu.edu http://r-a-y.orghttp://r-a-y.org/ ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. inline: image001.jpg
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] DAS Wireless
On 02/10/2014 11:22 AM, Ray DeJean wrote: All, We've been approached by wireless company to install a DAS (distributed antenna system) throughout our campus. They would then market the system to local carriers, which would increase their coverage (we have pretty poor ATT service on campus). There would be revenue sharing and they've offered to assist in expanding our 802.11 coverage as well. Just wondering if anyone else has entered into a similar agreement with a wireless company, and how it's working out for you. We worked a deal where verizon contracts with a third party to build a DAS system on our campus. This system is a multi-vendor system with verizon as the primary vendor. We are currently trying to get ATT on the system as well. We have about 5 buildings on it currently and are doing a couple more this summer. The upside is it is all on verizon's dime. The downside is it is also all on their schedule. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2
Hi Bruce, I was referring to the future 802.11ac phase 2 APs. -John On 02/11/2014 07:40 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) wrote: What brand of APs are you using? Aruba APs will only accept PoE from the first Ethernet port. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer - Wireless Team IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: John Center [mailto:john.cen...@villanova.edu] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:44 PM Subject: Re: How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Philippe, Another reason for 2 drops is resiliency. I envision connecting the AP's 2 ports to a 2-switch stack. We rarely see the need for redundant power supplies in an edge switch, but have seen failure on a switch ASIC cause one or more ports to go dead. With 2 connections, one switch having issues won't take out the AP. I think LAG'g both ports across the stack supporting LACP will become a future requirement. -John -- John Center Villanova University On 02/07/2014 10:21 AM, Hanset, Philippe C wrote: Is the main justification for two drops due to power/bandwidth/the-two? With many services and most killer apps going to the cloud, I would suspect that the bandwidth to the WAN is so limiting, that this excess of capacity on Wireless is a complete overkill (a vendor driven non-sense). Yes, those 802.11ac Phase2 APs can generate a lot more than 1 Gbps, but that's is shared bandwidth (half-duplex), and your uplink is 1 Gbps full-duplex (2 Gbps in Cisco math as we said in the old days). So, you really plan to also uplink your switches with 40 Gbps, and then a core at many times 100 Gbps, all connected to your ISP at a few Gbps... something doesn't add up here. Am I alone making bad accounting here? Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us http://www.eduroam.us On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:58 AM, James Robert Kennon jken...@gsu.edu mailto:jken...@gsu.edu wrote: We just made a call on a new building and decided not to incur cost of 2 cables per drop at this time. Hope we don't regret it later. From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:56:31 + To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 We'll be running two, until some sanity emerges. - --- *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf of Brian David brian.da...@bc.edu mailto:brian.da...@bc.edu *Sent:* Friday, February 7, 2014 9:54 AM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 All, I wanted to see how many people were planning on running 2 drops to 802.11ac phase 2 access points? Currently we are just doing a one for one swap when replacing an older a/b/g AP's with 802.11ac phase 1 AP's When you have new construction, do you plan on running 2 drops so when phase 2 come into play you will be all set for it? */Brian J David/* */Network Systems/* */Boston College/* image003.jpg ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2
Wouldn't switches with 10G access ports (also 10G uplink ports on AP)and 802.3at POE solve this issue? I understand resiliency is a plus with two data drops, but with RRM I still can't see the benefit of two data drops. Doubles cabling cost, and you still need the switch ports to support it. I've searched to see if Cisco had any switches with 10G access ports; however, I've only seen this in Nexus models for the DC. I think I came across a switch by Arista that was 10G access. And we know with the pace that technology changes those two data drops may not be needed in the future. Damien Cameron Network Engineer Norfolk State University Office of Information Technology Marie v. McDemmond Center for applied Research Room 401 555 Park Avenue Norfolk, VA 23504 O: (757) 823-9123 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of John Center Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:41 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Bruce, I was referring to the future 802.11ac phase 2 APs. -John On 02/11/2014 07:40 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) wrote: What brand of APs are you using? Aruba APs will only accept PoE from the first Ethernet port. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer - Wireless Team IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: John Center [mailto:john.cen...@villanova.edu] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:44 PM Subject: Re: How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Philippe, Another reason for 2 drops is resiliency. I envision connecting the AP's 2 ports to a 2-switch stack. We rarely see the need for redundant power supplies in an edge switch, but have seen failure on a switch ASIC cause one or more ports to go dead. With 2 connections, one switch having issues won't take out the AP. I think LAG'g both ports across the stack supporting LACP will become a future requirement. -John -- John Center Villanova University On 02/07/2014 10:21 AM, Hanset, Philippe C wrote: Is the main justification for two drops due to power/bandwidth/the-two? With many services and most killer apps going to the cloud, I would suspect that the bandwidth to the WAN is so limiting, that this excess of capacity on Wireless is a complete overkill (a vendor driven non-sense). Yes, those 802.11ac Phase2 APs can generate a lot more than 1 Gbps, but that's is shared bandwidth (half-duplex), and your uplink is 1 Gbps full-duplex (2 Gbps in Cisco math as we said in the old days). So, you really plan to also uplink your switches with 40 Gbps, and then a core at many times 100 Gbps, all connected to your ISP at a few Gbps... something doesn't add up here. Am I alone making bad accounting here? Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us http://www.eduroam.us On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:58 AM, James Robert Kennon jken...@gsu.edu mailto:jken...@gsu.edu wrote: We just made a call on a new building and decided not to incur cost of 2 cables per drop at this time. Hope we don't regret it later. From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:56:31 + To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 We'll be running two, until some sanity emerges. - --- *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf of Brian David brian.da...@bc.edu mailto:brian.da...@bc.edu *Sent:* Friday, February 7, 2014 9:54 AM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 All, I wanted to see how many people were planning on running 2 drops to 802.11ac phase 2 access points? Currently we are just doing a one for one swap when replacing an older a/b/g AP's with 802.11ac phase 1 AP's When you have new construction, do you plan on running 2 drops so when phase 2 come into play you will be all set for it? */Brian J David/* */Network Systems/* */Boston College/* image003.jpg ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE
Recent Campus-Wide WiFi Deployments
Hello, We're just about to kick off a replacement and expansion of our wifi network and so I'm looking to talk with anyone who's done something similar, mostly to find out what worked and what didn't. Feel free to contact me directly. Thanks -- Daniel Eklund Network Planning Manager ITS Communications Systems and Data Centers University of Michigan 734.763.6389 ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2
Very good info in this article... http://www.theruckusroom.net/2014/02/will-80211ac-stab-you-in-the-backhaul.html -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Cameron, Damien L. Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:30 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Wouldn't switches with 10G access ports (also 10G uplink ports on AP)and 802.3at POE solve this issue? I understand resiliency is a plus with two data drops, but with RRM I still can't see the benefit of two data drops. Doubles cabling cost, and you still need the switch ports to support it. I've searched to see if Cisco had any switches with 10G access ports; however, I've only seen this in Nexus models for the DC. I think I came across a switch by Arista that was 10G access. And we know with the pace that technology changes those two data drops may not be needed in the future. Damien Cameron Network Engineer Norfolk State University Office of Information Technology Marie v. McDemmond Center for applied Research Room 401 555 Park Avenue Norfolk, VA 23504 O: (757) 823-9123 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of John Center Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:41 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Bruce, I was referring to the future 802.11ac phase 2 APs. -John On 02/11/2014 07:40 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) wrote: What brand of APs are you using? Aruba APs will only accept PoE from the first Ethernet port. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer - Wireless Team IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: John Center [mailto:john.cen...@villanova.edu] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:44 PM Subject: Re: How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Philippe, Another reason for 2 drops is resiliency. I envision connecting the AP's 2 ports to a 2-switch stack. We rarely see the need for redundant power supplies in an edge switch, but have seen failure on a switch ASIC cause one or more ports to go dead. With 2 connections, one switch having issues won't take out the AP. I think LAG'g both ports across the stack supporting LACP will become a future requirement. -John -- John Center Villanova University On 02/07/2014 10:21 AM, Hanset, Philippe C wrote: Is the main justification for two drops due to power/bandwidth/the-two? With many services and most killer apps going to the cloud, I would suspect that the bandwidth to the WAN is so limiting, that this excess of capacity on Wireless is a complete overkill (a vendor driven non-sense). Yes, those 802.11ac Phase2 APs can generate a lot more than 1 Gbps, but that's is shared bandwidth (half-duplex), and your uplink is 1 Gbps full-duplex (2 Gbps in Cisco math as we said in the old days). So, you really plan to also uplink your switches with 40 Gbps, and then a core at many times 100 Gbps, all connected to your ISP at a few Gbps... something doesn't add up here. Am I alone making bad accounting here? Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us http://www.eduroam.us On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:58 AM, James Robert Kennon jken...@gsu.edu mailto:jken...@gsu.edu wrote: We just made a call on a new building and decided not to incur cost of 2 cables per drop at this time. Hope we don't regret it later. From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:56:31 + To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 We'll be running two, until some sanity emerges. - --- *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf of Brian David brian.da...@bc.edu mailto:brian.da...@bc.edu *Sent:* Friday, February 7, 2014 9:54 AM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 All, I wanted to see how many people were planning on running 2 drops to 802.11ac phase 2 access points? Currently we are just doing a one for one swap when replacing an older a/b/g AP's with 802.11ac phase 1 AP's When you have new construction, do you plan on running 2 drops so when phase 2 come into play you will be all set for it? */Brian J David/* */Network Systems/* */Boston
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2
I would agree if the only wireless clients are BYOD, pc's, etc, but if you need to support VOIP wireless, I would advocate for the redundancy. Art *Art Ripley* /Network Administrator/ _OBERLIN _ *Oberlin College Irvin E. Houck Center for Information Technology Mudd 029 D 173 West Lorain Street Oberlin,OH 44074* office. 440.775.8784 cell. 440.506.0006 office. 440.775.8174 On 2/11/2014 9:30 AM, Cameron, Damien L. wrote: Wouldn't switches with 10G access ports (also 10G uplink ports on AP)and 802.3at POE solve this issue? I understand resiliency is a plus with two data drops, but with RRM I still can't see the benefit of two data drops. Doubles cabling cost, and you still need the switch ports to support it. I've searched to see if Cisco had any switches with 10G access ports; however, I've only seen this in Nexus models for the DC. I think I came across a switch by Arista that was 10G access. And we know with the pace that technology changes those two data drops may not be needed in the future. Damien Cameron Network Engineer Norfolk State University Office of Information Technology Marie v. McDemmond Center for applied Research Room 401 555 Park Avenue Norfolk, VA 23504 O: (757) 823-9123 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of John Center Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:41 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Bruce, I was referring to the future 802.11ac phase 2 APs. -John On 02/11/2014 07:40 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) wrote: What brand of APs are you using? Aruba APs will only accept PoE from the first Ethernet port. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer - Wireless Team IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: John Center [mailto:john.cen...@villanova.edu] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:44 PM Subject: Re: How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Philippe, Another reason for 2 drops is resiliency. I envision connecting the AP's 2 ports to a 2-switch stack. We rarely see the need for redundant power supplies in an edge switch, but have seen failure on a switch ASIC cause one or more ports to go dead. With 2 connections, one switch having issues won't take out the AP. I think LAG'g both ports across the stack supporting LACP will become a future requirement. -John -- John Center Villanova University On 02/07/2014 10:21 AM, Hanset, Philippe C wrote: Is the main justification for two drops due to power/bandwidth/the-two? With many services and most killer apps going to the cloud, I would suspect that the bandwidth to the WAN is so limiting, that this excess of capacity on Wireless is a complete overkill (a vendor driven non-sense). Yes, those 802.11ac Phase2 APs can generate a lot more than 1 Gbps, but that's is shared bandwidth (half-duplex), and your uplink is 1 Gbps full-duplex (2 Gbps in Cisco math as we said in the old days). So, you really plan to also uplink your switches with 40 Gbps, and then a core at many times 100 Gbps, all connected to your ISP at a few Gbps... something doesn't add up here. Am I alone making bad accounting here? Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us http://www.eduroam.us On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:58 AM, James Robert Kennon jken...@gsu.edu mailto:jken...@gsu.edu wrote: We just made a call on a new building and decided not to incur cost of 2 cables per drop at this time. Hope we don't regret it later. From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:56:31 + To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 We'll be running two, until some sanity emerges. - --- *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf of Brian David brian.da...@bc.edu mailto:brian.da...@bc.edu *Sent:* Friday, February 7, 2014 9:54 AM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 All, I wanted to see how many people were planning on running 2 drops to 802.11ac phase 2 access points? Currently we are just doing a one for one swap when replacing an older a/b/g AP's with 802.11ac phase 1 AP's When you have new construction, do you plan on running 2 drops so when phase 2 come into play you will be all set for it? */Brian J David/* */Network Systems/* */Boston College/* image003.jpg ** Participation and subscription
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] DAS Wireless
I am not looking at allowing the cell vendors to spread 802.11 stuff around campus. The Athletics folks are interested though in providing 802.11 in the stadium. They have had several different vendors come in since then to look at it and the price continues to be too high for them. They, like most others, cannot believe the high cost of technology, particularly when it is only for 7 games each year. We have had folks in the past that wanted to installed a DAS system around campus for cell coverage. But, none were ever able to get any of the big providers interested in using it. And, we are not interested in using them for 802.11 stuff. So, they just went away. Cell coverage on campus is good anyway. Both Verizon ATT have a couple of towers close by. I'm don't dislike the UA-Auburn reference nearly as much as I dislike the way we played the last couple of games. I guess I could say wait til next year. But, it might be a couple of years. We lost a lot of folks both on the offense the defense. But, we signed some players that look good. Maybe in a couple of years things will be better if the young players pan out. PS: The UA-Auburn game was played at Auburn. Roll Tide. -jcw [cid:image001.jpg@01CF2727.DFCC9C10] John Watters The University of Alabama Office of Information Technology 205-348-3992 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Cameron, Damien L. Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 6:48 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] DAS Wireless Haven't had too much experience with DAS systems; however, the stadiums scenarios are understandable. With 100,000+ people (and at least 1 wireless device per person) in a defined area, I'm sure it put stress on the nearby communication towers, resulting in poor reception\speeds for the end user. With DAS in the stadium, users will get much better performance (example use cases: more Instagram uploads - just think how many Instavideos were uploaded at the end of the Alabama/Auburn game, better streaming on ESPN Watch app to watch other games, or stream Netflix to keep uninterested children entertained). The case of DAS in the stadiums is understandable; however, I am not sure on its benefit to be installed throughout campus. I believe it depends on your scenario. I would say to make sure you have a reasonable ROI. P.S. Mr. Watters, sorry about the Alabama/Auburn reference :) Damien Cameron Network Engineer Norfolk State University Office of Information Technology Marie v. McDemmond Center for applied Research Room 401 555 Park Avenue Norfolk, VA 23504 O: (757) 823-9123 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Watters, John Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:38 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] DAS Wireless Did they only do DAS in your stadium? Or, did they also do 802.11 there and/or other places? We have a DAS system in our stadium that ATT and Verizon jointly funded. It seems to be doing fairly well. They share a rather small room for their head-end stuff. It's interesting to see the differences between the equipment used by these two carriers. -jcw [cid:image002.jpg@01CF2727.DFCC9C10] John Watters The University of Alabama Office of Information Technology 205-348-3992 From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hanset, Philippe C Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 4:24 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] DAS Wireless University of Tennessee Knoxville entered into such an agreement. Their interest was to cover the Stadium. It's done, and it seems to work well. There are many providers of such service, and UTK used a competitive bidding. Two things that I can remember from that agreement: -Once the initial contract is signed (revenue sharing, infrastructure, etc...), it takes also a long time to sign a contract with each carrier that will join the shared infrastructure. -Also, the late Dewitt Latimer was always warning campuses: If carriers are interested in one particular location of your campus (because they can reach other interesting locations from there), make sure to negotiate a complete coverage, don't allow a partial one that is only in the
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2
Hi Damien, I look at it this way, at some point there won't be data ports in dorm rooms; there will be an AP per room. The major cost would be the APs, not the switches. The APs won't likely be high-end 4-stream devices, but more modest 2- or 3-stream ones. The main concern will be availability resiliency because no one will want to support the infrastructure after hours. The wiring cost will be likely be amortized out over 15-20 years, so while strictly speaking only one port/cable is needed, the marginal cost of the additional port/cable will be relatively negligible. Especially, if it's new construction. -John On 02/11/2014 09:30 AM, Cameron, Damien L. wrote: Wouldn't switches with 10G access ports (also 10G uplink ports on AP)and 802.3at POE solve this issue? I understand resiliency is a plus with two data drops, but with RRM I still can't see the benefit of two data drops. Doubles cabling cost, and you still need the switch ports to support it. I've searched to see if Cisco had any switches with 10G access ports; however, I've only seen this in Nexus models for the DC. I think I came across a switch by Arista that was 10G access. And we know with the pace that technology changes those two data drops may not be needed in the future. Damien Cameron Network Engineer Norfolk State University Office of Information Technology Marie v. McDemmond Center for applied Research Room 401 555 Park Avenue Norfolk, VA 23504 O: (757) 823-9123 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of John Center Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:41 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Bruce, I was referring to the future 802.11ac phase 2 APs. -John On 02/11/2014 07:40 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) wrote: What brand of APs are you using? Aruba APs will only accept PoE from the first Ethernet port. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer - Wireless Team IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: John Center [mailto:john.cen...@villanova.edu] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:44 PM Subject: Re: How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Philippe, Another reason for 2 drops is resiliency. I envision connecting the AP's 2 ports to a 2-switch stack. We rarely see the need for redundant power supplies in an edge switch, but have seen failure on a switch ASIC cause one or more ports to go dead. With 2 connections, one switch having issues won't take out the AP. I think LAG'g both ports across the stack supporting LACP will become a future requirement. -John -- John Center Villanova University On 02/07/2014 10:21 AM, Hanset, Philippe C wrote: Is the main justification for two drops due to power/bandwidth/the-two? With many services and most killer apps going to the cloud, I would suspect that the bandwidth to the WAN is so limiting, that this excess of capacity on Wireless is a complete overkill (a vendor driven non-sense). Yes, those 802.11ac Phase2 APs can generate a lot more than 1 Gbps, but that's is shared bandwidth (half-duplex), and your uplink is 1 Gbps full-duplex (2 Gbps in Cisco math as we said in the old days). So, you really plan to also uplink your switches with 40 Gbps, and then a core at many times 100 Gbps, all connected to your ISP at a few Gbps... something doesn't add up here. Am I alone making bad accounting here? Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us http://www.eduroam.us On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:58 AM, James Robert Kennon jken...@gsu.edu mailto:jken...@gsu.edu wrote: We just made a call on a new building and decided not to incur cost of 2 cables per drop at this time. Hope we don't regret it later. From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:56:31 + To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 We'll be running two, until some sanity emerges. - --- *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf of Brian David brian.da...@bc.edu mailto:brian.da...@bc.edu *Sent:* Friday, February 7, 2014 9:54 AM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 All, I wanted to see how many people were planning on running 2 drops to 802.11ac phase 2 access points? Currently we are just doing a one for one swap when replacing an older a/b/g AP's with 802.11ac
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] DAS Wireless
All, We have an existing agreement with American Tower for our macro-sites but are looking at several companies to provide an in-building solution. I would recommend attending the ACUTA conference coming up in Texas, http://www.acuta.org/wcm/acuta/donna2/phoenix/ws14education.pdf from the last ACUTA conference in Phoenix, and checking out http://www.thedasforum.org/ for DAS information. Douglas Burke Senior Director Network Infrastructure Systems Services E-mail bu...@sandiego.edu -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jerry Bucklaew Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 5:13 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] DAS Wireless On 02/10/2014 11:22 AM, Ray DeJean wrote: All, We've been approached by wireless company to install a DAS (distributed antenna system) throughout our campus. They would then market the system to local carriers, which would increase their coverage (we have pretty poor ATT service on campus). There would be revenue sharing and they've offered to assist in expanding our 802.11 coverage as well. Just wondering if anyone else has entered into a similar agreement with a wireless company, and how it's working out for you. We worked a deal where verizon contracts with a third party to build a DAS system on our campus. This system is a multi-vendor system with verizon as the primary vendor. We are currently trying to get ATT on the system as well. We have about 5 buildings on it currently and are doing a couple more this summer. The upside is it is all on verizon's dime. The downside is it is also all on their schedule. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/. ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2
Have to agree with that one. Explains it all quite well, can't see throughput being an issue We run 2 drops anyway and always have but it's for other reasons, at only 20% more cost it's not that bad. For those thinking of redundancy where are most of the failures seen? We tend to have very few switch failures and almost all of them related to power(so the whole building is out anyway, and/or sometimes a switch PSU fails when it comes back up). Now with redundant hot swappable power supplies this is becoming less of a problem. So for us I think we would be more likely to try and go with UPS's for the switches rather than an extra switch with 2 ports per AP. Otherwise the best redundancy is diverse path, which means another comms room, cable path and different power source. The service would have to be pretty critical for those costs. -- Jason Cook The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph: +61 8 8313 4800 e-mail: jason.c...@adelaide.edu.aumailto:jason.c...@adelaide.edu.au -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Hurt,Trenton W. Sent: Wednesday, 12 February 2014 1:42 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Very good info in this article... http://www.theruckusroom.net/2014/02/will-80211ac-stab-you-in-the-backhaul.html -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Cameron, Damien L. Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 9:30 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Wouldn't switches with 10G access ports (also 10G uplink ports on AP)and 802.3at POE solve this issue? I understand resiliency is a plus with two data drops, but with RRM I still can't see the benefit of two data drops. Doubles cabling cost, and you still need the switch ports to support it. I've searched to see if Cisco had any switches with 10G access ports; however, I've only seen this in Nexus models for the DC. I think I came across a switch by Arista that was 10G access. And we know with the pace that technology changes those two data drops may not be needed in the future. Damien Cameron Network Engineer Norfolk State University Office of Information Technology Marie v. McDemmond Center for applied Research Room 401 555 Park Avenue Norfolk, VA 23504 O: (757) 823-9123 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of John Center Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:41 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Bruce, I was referring to the future 802.11ac phase 2 APs. -John On 02/11/2014 07:40 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) wrote: What brand of APs are you using? Aruba APs will only accept PoE from the first Ethernet port. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer - Wireless Team IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: John Center [mailto:john.cen...@villanova.edu] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:44 PM Subject: Re: How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Philippe, Another reason for 2 drops is resiliency. I envision connecting the AP's 2 ports to a 2-switch stack. We rarely see the need for redundant power supplies in an edge switch, but have seen failure on a switch ASIC cause one or more ports to go dead. With 2 connections, one switch having issues won't take out the AP. I think LAG'g both ports across the stack supporting LACP will become a future requirement. -John -- John Center Villanova University On 02/07/2014 10:21 AM, Hanset, Philippe C wrote: Is the main justification for two drops due to power/bandwidth/the-two? With many services and most killer apps going to the cloud, I would suspect that the bandwidth to the WAN is so limiting, that this excess of capacity on Wireless is a complete overkill (a vendor driven non-sense). Yes, those 802.11ac Phase2 APs can generate a lot more than 1 Gbps, but that's is shared bandwidth (half-duplex), and your uplink is 1 Gbps full-duplex (2 Gbps in Cisco math as we said in the old days). So, you really plan to also uplink your switches with 40 Gbps, and then a core at many times 100 Gbps, all connected to your ISP at a few Gbps... something doesn't add up here. Am I alone making bad accounting here? Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us http://www.eduroam.us On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:58 AM, James Robert Kennon jken...@gsu.edu mailto:jken...@gsu.edu wrote: We just made a call on a new building and decided not to incur cost of 2 cables per drop at this time. Hope we don't regret it later. From: Lee H
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2
10G over copper is limited to 53 meters for cat6a... What percentage of your AP's are that close to your data switch? A Re-design would be necessary On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Cameron, Damien L. dlcame...@nsu.eduwrote: Wouldn't switches with 10G access ports (also 10G uplink ports on AP)and 802.3at POE solve this issue? I understand resiliency is a plus with two data drops, but with RRM I still can't see the benefit of two data drops. Doubles cabling cost, and you still need the switch ports to support it. I've searched to see if Cisco had any switches with 10G access ports; however, I've only seen this in Nexus models for the DC. I think I came across a switch by Arista that was 10G access. And we know with the pace that technology changes those two data drops may not be needed in the future. Damien Cameron Network Engineer Norfolk State University Office of Information Technology Marie v. McDemmond Center for applied Research Room 401 555 Park Avenue Norfolk, VA 23504 O: (757) 823-9123 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of John Center Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:41 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Bruce, I was referring to the future 802.11ac phase 2 APs. -John On 02/11/2014 07:40 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) wrote: What brand of APs are you using? Aruba APs will only accept PoE from the first Ethernet port. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer - Wireless Team IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: John Center [mailto:john.cen...@villanova.edu] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:44 PM Subject: Re: How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Philippe, Another reason for 2 drops is resiliency. I envision connecting the AP's 2 ports to a 2-switch stack. We rarely see the need for redundant power supplies in an edge switch, but have seen failure on a switch ASIC cause one or more ports to go dead. With 2 connections, one switch having issues won't take out the AP. I think LAG'g both ports across the stack supporting LACP will become a future requirement. -John -- John Center Villanova University On 02/07/2014 10:21 AM, Hanset, Philippe C wrote: Is the main justification for two drops due to power/bandwidth/the-two? With many services and most killer apps going to the cloud, I would suspect that the bandwidth to the WAN is so limiting, that this excess of capacity on Wireless is a complete overkill (a vendor driven non-sense). Yes, those 802.11ac Phase2 APs can generate a lot more than 1 Gbps, but that's is shared bandwidth (half-duplex), and your uplink is 1 Gbps full-duplex (2 Gbps in Cisco math as we said in the old days). So, you really plan to also uplink your switches with 40 Gbps, and then a core at many times 100 Gbps, all connected to your ISP at a few Gbps... something doesn't add up here. Am I alone making bad accounting here? Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us http://www.eduroam.us On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:58 AM, James Robert Kennon jken...@gsu.edu mailto:jken...@gsu.edu wrote: We just made a call on a new building and decided not to incur cost of 2 cables per drop at this time. Hope we don't regret it later. From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:56:31 + To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 We'll be running two, until some sanity emerges. - --- *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf of Brian David brian.da...@bc.edu mailto:brian.da...@bc.edu *Sent:* Friday, February 7, 2014 9:54 AM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 All, I wanted to see how many people were planning on running 2 drops to 802.11ac phase 2 access points? Currently we are just doing a one for one swap when replacing an older a/b/g AP's with 802.11ac phase 1 AP's When you have new construction, do you plan on running 2 drops so when phase 2 come into play you will be all set for it? */Brian J David/* */Network Systems/* */Boston College/* image003.jpg ** Participation and subscription information for
RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2
Cat6a is 100 meters for 10 Gig. You may be thinking of Cat6 which was supposed to go 55 meters for 10 Gig, but now I think they are saying 37 meters for Cat6. Pete Morrissey From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Ron Walczak Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:45 PM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 10G over copper is limited to 53 meters for cat6a... What percentage of your AP's are that close to your data switch? A Re-design would be necessary On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Cameron, Damien L. dlcame...@nsu.edumailto:dlcame...@nsu.edu wrote: Wouldn't switches with 10G access ports (also 10G uplink ports on AP)and 802.3at POE solve this issue? I understand resiliency is a plus with two data drops, but with RRM I still can't see the benefit of two data drops. Doubles cabling cost, and you still need the switch ports to support it. I've searched to see if Cisco had any switches with 10G access ports; however, I've only seen this in Nexus models for the DC. I think I came across a switch by Arista that was 10G access. And we know with the pace that technology changes those two data drops may not be needed in the future. Damien Cameron Network Engineer Norfolk State University Office of Information Technology Marie v. McDemmond Center for applied Research Room 401 555 Park Avenue Norfolk, VA 23504 O: (757) 823-9123 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of John Center Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:41 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Bruce, I was referring to the future 802.11ac phase 2 APs. -John On 02/11/2014 07:40 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) wrote: What brand of APs are you using? Aruba APs will only accept PoE from the first Ethernet port. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer - Wireless Team IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: John Center [mailto:john.cen...@villanova.edumailto:john.cen...@villanova.edu] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:44 PM Subject: Re: How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Philippe, Another reason for 2 drops is resiliency. I envision connecting the AP's 2 ports to a 2-switch stack. We rarely see the need for redundant power supplies in an edge switch, but have seen failure on a switch ASIC cause one or more ports to go dead. With 2 connections, one switch having issues won't take out the AP. I think LAG'g both ports across the stack supporting LACP will become a future requirement. -John -- John Center Villanova University On 02/07/2014 10:21 AM, Hanset, Philippe C wrote: Is the main justification for two drops due to power/bandwidth/the-two? With many services and most killer apps going to the cloud, I would suspect that the bandwidth to the WAN is so limiting, that this excess of capacity on Wireless is a complete overkill (a vendor driven non-sense). Yes, those 802.11ac Phase2 APs can generate a lot more than 1 Gbps, but that's is shared bandwidth (half-duplex), and your uplink is 1 Gbps full-duplex (2 Gbps in Cisco math as we said in the old days). So, you really plan to also uplink your switches with 40 Gbps, and then a core at many times 100 Gbps, all connected to your ISP at a few Gbps... something doesn't add up here. Am I alone making bad accounting here? Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.ushttp://www.eduroam.us http://www.eduroam.us On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:58 AM, James Robert Kennon jken...@gsu.edumailto:jken...@gsu.edu mailto:jken...@gsu.edumailto:jken...@gsu.edu wrote: We just made a call on a new building and decided not to incur cost of 2 cables per drop at this time. Hope we don't regret it later. From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu mailto:lhbad...@syr.edumailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:56:31 + To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 We'll be running two, until some sanity emerges. - --- *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDUmailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2
You are correct... Sorry for any confusion On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Peter P Morrissey ppmor...@syr.edu wrote: Cat6a is 100 meters for 10 Gig. You may be thinking of Cat6 which was supposed to go 55 meters for 10 Gig, but now I think they are saying 37 meters for Cat6. Pete Morrissey *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Ron Walczak *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2014 7:45 PM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 10G over copper is limited to 53 meters for cat6a... What percentage of your AP's are that close to your data switch? A Re-design would be necessary On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Cameron, Damien L. dlcame...@nsu.edu wrote: Wouldn't switches with 10G access ports (also 10G uplink ports on AP)and 802.3at POE solve this issue? I understand resiliency is a plus with two data drops, but with RRM I still can't see the benefit of two data drops. Doubles cabling cost, and you still need the switch ports to support it. I've searched to see if Cisco had any switches with 10G access ports; however, I've only seen this in Nexus models for the DC. I think I came across a switch by Arista that was 10G access. And we know with the pace that technology changes those two data drops may not be needed in the future. Damien Cameron Network Engineer Norfolk State University Office of Information Technology Marie v. McDemmond Center for applied Research Room 401 555 Park Avenue Norfolk, VA 23504 O: (757) 823-9123 -Original Message- From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of John Center Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:41 AM To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Bruce, I was referring to the future 802.11ac phase 2 APs. -John On 02/11/2014 07:40 AM, Osborne, Bruce W (Network Services) wrote: What brand of APs are you using? Aruba APs will only accept PoE from the first Ethernet port. Bruce Osborne Network Engineer - Wireless Team IT Network Services (434) 592-4229 LIBERTY UNIVERSITY Training Champions for Christ since 1971 -Original Message- From: John Center [mailto:john.cen...@villanova.edu] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:44 PM Subject: Re: How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 Hi Philippe, Another reason for 2 drops is resiliency. I envision connecting the AP's 2 ports to a 2-switch stack. We rarely see the need for redundant power supplies in an edge switch, but have seen failure on a switch ASIC cause one or more ports to go dead. With 2 connections, one switch having issues won't take out the AP. I think LAG'g both ports across the stack supporting LACP will become a future requirement. -John -- John Center Villanova University On 02/07/2014 10:21 AM, Hanset, Philippe C wrote: Is the main justification for two drops due to power/bandwidth/the-two? With many services and most killer apps going to the cloud, I would suspect that the bandwidth to the WAN is so limiting, that this excess of capacity on Wireless is a complete overkill (a vendor driven non-sense). Yes, those 802.11ac Phase2 APs can generate a lot more than 1 Gbps, but that's is shared bandwidth (half-duplex), and your uplink is 1 Gbps full-duplex (2 Gbps in Cisco math as we said in the old days). So, you really plan to also uplink your switches with 40 Gbps, and then a core at many times 100 Gbps, all connected to your ISP at a few Gbps... something doesn't add up here. Am I alone making bad accounting here? Philippe Hanset www.eduroam.us http://www.eduroam.us On Feb 7, 2014, at 9:58 AM, James Robert Kennon jken...@gsu.edu mailto:jken...@gsu.edu wrote: We just made a call on a new building and decided not to incur cost of 2 cables per drop at this time. Hope we don't regret it later. From: Lee H Badman lhbad...@syr.edu mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu Reply-To: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2014 14:56:31 + To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] How many drops 802.11ac phase 2 We'll be running two, until some sanity emerges. - --- *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU on behalf of Brian David brian.da...@bc.edu mailto:brian.da...@bc.edu *Sent:* Friday, February 7, 2014 9:54 AM *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
