Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Luke Jenkins]

Pete,

We have 52 channels of IPTV using a similar setup to Bruce with Haivision gear 
and we are using Cisco wireless. It has been a great success.

The equivalent secret sauce for Cisco wireless is called VideoStream or 
MediaStream (same tech, different marketing folks). Here is the sales document: 
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/wireless/ps6302/ps8322/ps10315/ps10325/white_paper_c11-577721.html
 and the tech document: 
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps10315/products_tech_note09186a0080b6e11e.shtml
 that go over VideoStream.

Down the line there are some IEEE standards that should replicate much of the 
functionality of these vendor specific solutions. 802.11aa (Robust streaming of 
Audio Video Transport Streams) is slated to be included in both 802.11ac and 
802.11ad.

With all of that said, I still think putting in either copper or at least 
decent size conduit to every room is a great way to future/legacy-proof your 
dorm rooms.

If you have additional questions, hit me up off list and I'll do my best to 
help.

-Luke

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Luke Jenkins
Network Analyst
Weber State University
ljenk...@weber.edu


On Jan 19, 2012, at 8:34 AM, Peter P Morrissey wrote:

> Hi Bruce,
>  
> Thank you for sharing more of the details. We currently have legacy coax to 
> every location and Time Warner provides the CATV service. One of the reasons 
> I asked the question was because we have contemplated in-sourcing it and 
> delivering it over IP. We would have to replicate a plethora of offerings and 
> channels that Time Warner currently provides in order to provide an 
> equivalent service, not to mention a head end, set top boxes etc.  We already 
> have the luxury of CAT5 or better to every pillow with dedicated 100 mbps FDX 
> which I am guessing we would want to leverage if this concept ever went 
> anywhere for us. But it is very helpful to hear about experiences pushing the 
> limits with both wireless and IP to help us understand the possibilities. If 
> we were to pursue something like this over wireless, we would probably hit up 
> Cisco, our current vendor.
>  
> Pete
>  
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 8:18 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?
>  
> Pete,
>  
> The numbers I am providing here may be outdated since I am not currently 
> involved in our daily operations. Our IPTV solution was already in place and 
> is handled by a different group here on campus.
>  
> We are providing 15 channels of encrypted 720p IPTV to clients running 
> Haivision’s VideoFurnace InStream client. During our testing before 
> deployment, we had 20+ clients spread across the 15 channels viewing 
> simultaneously connected to one Aruba AP-125 AP.
>  
> Since we deployed this in fall 2009, we have not had any complaints from our 
> customer base due to the video streaming. We periodically experience 
> congestion issues on our Internet connections, but that is unrelated to the 
> video streaming.  We started only offering the IPTV service on a 5GHZ 
> 802.11n-only SSID. Eventually, we got complaints from users with 802.11b/g/n 
> clients that wanted this service. We then expanded the offering to our normal 
> 802.11 a/b/g/n SSID and retired the “high speed” SSID.
>  
> Aruba’s Dynamic Multicast Optimization technology is their “magic” We were 
> involved during alpha & beta testing and were one of the first customers to 
> deploy this to our customers. We worked directly with Aruba engineering to 
> stress test this technology as it was being developed & refined.
>  
> I can put together a conference call to talk about this more offline in 
> detail, if you wish. We have been very impressed with Aruba’s technology and 
> support. No vendor is perfect and, many times, we are running our system on 
> custom code testing solutions to bugs we have found. We are doing things with 
> Aruba’s technology that other wireless vendors said could not be done.
>  
> Bruce Osborne
> Network Engineer
> IT Network Services
>  
> (434) 592-4229
>  
> LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
> 40 Years of Training Champions for Christ: 1971-2011
>  
> From: Peter P Morrissey [mailto:ppmor...@syr.edu] 
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 4:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Wireless only dorms, advice?
>  
> Bruce,
>  
> Are you saying that you are providing HDTV channels to all their wide screen 
> TV’s in the rooms over wireless that is equivalent in quality to what they 
> would get from satellite or standard CATV? I would be curious to hear what 
> the quality of experience is for the students watching HDTV, and wh

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Marcelo Lew]

Just an FYI, the Aruba AP-93H is a single radio AP, so you cannot run both 
bands at the same time.  At this time you most likely will need both, 2.4ghz 
for phones, and 5ghz for laptops, notebooks, etc.  But yes, I like the idea a 
lot, too bad is not a dual radio AP.

Marcelo Lew
Wireless Enterprise Administrator
University Technology Services
University of Denver
Desk: (303) 871-6523
Cell: (303) 669-4217
Fax:  (303) 871-5900
Email: m...@du.edu<mailto:m...@du.edu>

[cid:image001.jpg@01CCD685.FF6C64F0]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick Brown
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 3:07 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

That is the one we're seriously considering for the residence halls.  It is 
amazing it took someone this long to come up with this for enterprise use.






On 1/18/2012 2:38 PM, Jennings, Zachariah E. wrote:
You mean like this?
http://www.arubanetworks.com/product/aruba-ap-93h-access-point/

Zach Jennings
Senior Network Server Manager
Aruba Certified Mobility Professional, Airheads MVP
West Chester University of PA
610-436-1069

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:24 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Though slightly off topic, I gotta chime in. I wish all major vendors offered 
an in-wall wireless AP option- very empowering for environments with lots of 
unused UTP.

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]<mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]>
 On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:15 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Dorms are a bear to implement wireless, especially legacy buildings. We have 
had wireless APs in dorms for 6 years and have made several upgrades after 
discovering the weaknesses of different schemes.

Our two most difficult dorms are multi-bed apartments that are two-story inside 
the apartment. We elected to go with the Ruckus 2075 in-wall AP with four 
additional ports. The coverage has been excellent and we have only needed one 
per apartment. You may want to think of in-wall options similar to hotels.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 1/18/12 1:51 PM, Rick Brown wrote:
Sara,

We have not moved that way but are looking at implementing wireless in the 
dorms.   We have decided to factor in several things in determining the density 
of wireless.  You'll need to consider the fact that students are coming in with 
3-4 wireless devices per person these days with at least a couple being used 
simultaneously.  You'll also want to factor in the residence hall layouts.  
We've determined that we'll probably need to place at least one per suite.  
This is due both to multiple devices per user but also due to construction 
material and layout of the suites.  If you want to take full advantage of 
802.11N technology you'll also want to design based on 5GHz coverage with also 
reduces your coverage area.  Even in our older residence halls where there are 
two people per room and 4 to 5 bedrooms per suite one AP is going to be pushing 
it and we may find that we need two to a 8-10 person suite. Our residence halls 
tend to be constructed with concrete block with drastically reduces the 
coverage area of 5GHz.

I'm sure others that have already implemented wireless only can provide actual 
results but these are some of the things we're trying to factor in.

Rick



On 1/18/2012 1:05 PM, Laird, Sara M wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for anyone who has moved to wireless only dorms.  We have fast 
track dorm construction project that is starting and our CIO would like to make 
it wireless only.  I am wondering if anyone has done this and if so what kind 
of advice or comments can you share.  We will be using Cisco waps.  Also I am 
wondering what kind of ratio you based your access points on, how many devises 
per person.

Best Regards,

Sara

Sara M. Laird
Network Administrator
Mount Saint Mary's University
301.447.5014
Faith * Discovery * Leadership * Community
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

--
[cid:image002.png@01CCD685.FF6C64F0]
** Participation and subscription information for t

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Luis Fernando Valverde]

I would like to know if anyone has evaluated to use Internet Service
Provider level APs to cover and offer wireless services in dorms or wide
areas with hundreds of users, instead of using Enterprise APs designed to
support 25 users per AP.

Soon, we are going to test GoNet Systems ISP level APs to serve
approximately 300-400 users in 4 adjacent classrooms on first floor and 12
study rooms on second floor.


---
Luis Fernando Valverde
Director de Tecnología de Información y Comunicaciones
INCAE Business School
Tel: 506+ 24 37 23 38
www.incae.edu


On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Voll, Toivo  wrote:

> I pretty much second Rick’s comments. We also don’t have wireless-only
> dorms yet, but the next one will have much less wire than our existing ones.
> 
>
> ** **
>
> One AP per suite is what we’ve done, but you have to also consider non-RF
> placement issues – vandalism concerns, maintenance access and residents
> complaining about blinky lights above their beds. 
>
> ** **
>
> Does the architect have issue with visible APs? If the APs are above
> ceiling / behind walls, do indeed check the materials and placement of
> ventilation ducts. Also, plan on PoE switches (and UPSes?) so power-cycling
> capability and visibility into the gear are improved.
>
> ** **
>
> Keep in mind that the tiling of 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz doesn’t have to be the
> same, nor power levels, since the number of non-overlapping channels
> differs. I’d try to find as many carrots as possible to steer people to 5
> GHz. 2.4 GHz is a pain, with game console controllers, microwaves and
> number of other consumer devices adding to the lack of channels. Depending
> on your vendor, having a good ability to sniff the air / do spectrum
> analysis can be helpful in figuring out whether a wing just lost
> connectivity due to a microwave, misbehaving AP or rogue AP. Other design
> decisions – do you plan to support broadcast/multicast discovery (wireless
> printers, time capsules etc.) or legacy devices that require low data rates
> (i.e. Nintendo).
>
> ** **
>
> Toivo Voll
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Information Technology Communications
>
> University of South Florida
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Rick Brown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 18, 2012 13:52
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?
>
> ** **
>
> Sara,
>
> We have not moved that way but are looking at implementing wireless in the
> dorms.   We have decided to factor in several things in determining the
> density of wireless.  You'll need to consider the fact that students are
> coming in with 3-4 wireless devices per person these days with at least a
> couple being used simultaneously.  You'll also want to factor in the
> residence hall layouts.  We've determined that we'll probably need to place
> at least one per suite.  This is due both to multiple devices per user but
> also due to construction material and layout of the suites.  If you want to
> take full advantage of 802.11N technology you'll also want to design based
> on 5GHz coverage with also reduces your coverage area.  Even in our older
> residence halls where there are two people per room and 4 to 5 bedrooms per
> suite one AP is going to be pushing it and we may find that we need two to
> a 8-10 person suite. Our residence halls tend to be constructed with
> concrete block with drastically reduces the coverage area of 5GHz.
>
> I'm sure others that have already implemented wireless only can provide
> actual results but these are some of the things we're trying to factor in.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> On 1/18/2012 1:05 PM, Laird, Sara M wrote: 
>
> Hello,
>
>  
>
> I am looking for anyone who has moved to wireless only dorms.  We have
> fast track dorm construction project that is starting and our CIO would
> like to make it wireless only.  I am wondering if anyone has done this and
> if so what kind of advice or comments can you share.  We will be using
> Cisco waps.  Also I am wondering what kind of ratio you based your access
> points on, how many devises per person.  
>
>  
>
> Best Regards, 
>
>  
>
> Sara
>
>  
>
> Sara M. Laird
>
> Network Administrator
>
> Mount Saint Mary's University
>
> 301.447.5014
>
> Faith t Discovery t

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Craig Eyre]

Hey All,

Just keep in mind that there are very few smartphone/tablets that support
802.11n in the 5Ghz and iPhones(at least half of smartphones here) don't
even support 5Ghz period (not even 802.11a). I don't look after our dorms
wireless but they implemented a "fast" SSID in the 5Ghz 802.11n to allow
the people who wish to move ahead with technology a better experience and
then an ssid in the 2.4Ghz.

Just some ideas for you.



Craig Eyre
Network Analyst
IT Services Department
Mount Royal University
4825 Mount Royal Gate SW
Calgary AB T2P 3T5

P. 403.440.5199
E. ce...@mtroyal.ca

"The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of
strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather in a lack of will."  Vincent
T. Lombardi




From:   "Robertson, Joshua A." 
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Date:   01/18/2012 01:17 PM
Subject:    Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?
Sent by:The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv




We purchased a few older apartment buildings which we converted to dorms
and are doing wireless only in them.  For the wireless we’re using Cisco
1142i and put one per apartment (some apartments are 2 beds, some are 4).

As mentioned you definitely want to do PoE on the switches to provide
better power visibility and have a good UPS.  Since you’re going Cisco as
well I’d suggest N+N controller redundancy as this will be their only
network connectivity.  If I were doing it now I’d go with a 3500 series for
CleanAir, but that wasn’t available at the time.

The only issue we’ve really ran into are gaming systems which wanted to use
lower rates or couldn’t handle our captive portal authentication.

Also starting in the Fall in our other residence halls we shut down all
wired jacks prior to move in and only activated them upon request (no
charge).  All the dorms have 802.11n (mostly Cisco 3502i) installed in the
hallway (densely) with the exception of a handful with APs in the rooms.  I
created a couple web-forms for the students to use.  One activates the port
+ creates an 802.1x exception for a gaming device (known gaming OUIs), the
other just activates the port for computer usage.  While we have had a lot
of gaming device activations, we have seen very few activations for
computer usage.  So as such it seems that our users have pretty much gone
wi-fi only for their computers and are just using the wired ports for
gaming at this point.

But personally if I were in charge of new construction I would still want
one cabled drop in addition to the AP in the room and would do activations
upon request as Philippe mentioned.

Josh Robertson
Network Systems Senior Engineer
Old Dominion University
Office of Computing & Communications Services
(757)683-5046
j2rob...@odu.edu
http://occs.odu.edu/
(Embedded image moved to file: pic24230.jpg)Description: wifilogoside-small

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv [
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Voll, Toivo
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:48 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

I pretty much second Rick’s comments. We also don’t have wireless-only
dorms yet, but the next one will have much less wire than our existing
ones.

One AP per suite is what we’ve done, but you have to also consider non-RF
placement issues – vandalism concerns, maintenance access and residents
complaining about blinky lights above their beds.

Does the architect have issue with visible APs? If the APs are above
ceiling / behind walls, do indeed check the materials and placement of
ventilation ducts. Also, plan on PoE switches (and UPSes?) so power-cycling
capability and visibility into the gear are improved.

Keep in mind that the tiling of 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz doesn’t have to be the
same, nor power levels, since the number of non-overlapping channels
differs. I’d try to find as many carrots as possible to steer people to 5
GHz. 2.4 GHz is a pain, with game console controllers, microwaves and
number of other consumer devices adding to the lack of channels. Depending
on your vendor, having a good ability to sniff the air / do spectrum
analysis can be helpful in figuring out whether a wing just lost
connectivity due to a microwave, misbehaving AP or rogue AP. Other design
decisions – do you plan to support broadcast/multicast discovery (wireless
printers, time capsules etc.) or legacy devices that require low data rates
(i.e. Nintendo).

Toivo Voll
Network Administrator
Information Technology Communications
University of South Florida



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick Brown
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 13:52
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Sara,

We have not moved that way but are looking at i

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Robertson, Joshua A.]

We purchased a few older apartment buildings which we converted to dorms and 
are doing wireless only in them.  For the wireless we’re using Cisco 1142i and 
put one per apartment (some apartments are 2 beds, some are 4).

As mentioned you definitely want to do PoE on the switches to provide better 
power visibility and have a good UPS.  Since you’re going Cisco as well I’d 
suggest N+N controller redundancy as this will be their only network 
connectivity.  If I were doing it now I’d go with a 3500 series for CleanAir, 
but that wasn’t available at the time.

The only issue we’ve really ran into are gaming systems which wanted to use 
lower rates or couldn’t handle our captive portal authentication.

Also starting in the Fall in our other residence halls we shut down all wired 
jacks prior to move in and only activated them upon request (no charge).  All 
the dorms have 802.11n (mostly Cisco 3502i) installed in the hallway (densely) 
with the exception of a handful with APs in the rooms.  I created a couple 
web-forms for the students to use.  One activates the port + creates an 802.1x 
exception for a gaming device (known gaming OUIs), the other just activates the 
port for computer usage.  While we have had a lot of gaming device activations, 
we have seen very few activations for computer usage.  So as such it seems that 
our users have pretty much gone wi-fi only for their computers and are just 
using the wired ports for gaming at this point.

But personally if I were in charge of new construction I would still want one 
cabled drop in addition to the AP in the room and would do activations upon 
request as Philippe mentioned.

Josh Robertson
Network Systems Senior Engineer
Old Dominion University
Office of Computing & Communications Services
(757)683-5046
j2rob...@odu.edu<mailto:j2rob...@odu.edu>
http://occs.odu.edu/
[cid:image001.jpg@01CCD5F4.13A504A0]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Voll, Toivo
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:48 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

I pretty much second Rick’s comments. We also don’t have wireless-only dorms 
yet, but the next one will have much less wire than our existing ones.

One AP per suite is what we’ve done, but you have to also consider non-RF 
placement issues – vandalism concerns, maintenance access and residents 
complaining about blinky lights above their beds.

Does the architect have issue with visible APs? If the APs are above ceiling / 
behind walls, do indeed check the materials and placement of ventilation ducts. 
Also, plan on PoE switches (and UPSes?) so power-cycling capability and 
visibility into the gear are improved.

Keep in mind that the tiling of 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz doesn’t have to be the same, 
nor power levels, since the number of non-overlapping channels differs. I’d try 
to find as many carrots as possible to steer people to 5 GHz. 2.4 GHz is a 
pain, with game console controllers, microwaves and number of other consumer 
devices adding to the lack of channels. Depending on your vendor, having a good 
ability to sniff the air / do spectrum analysis can be helpful in figuring out 
whether a wing just lost connectivity due to a microwave, misbehaving AP or 
rogue AP. Other design decisions – do you plan to support broadcast/multicast 
discovery (wireless printers, time capsules etc.) or legacy devices that 
require low data rates (i.e. Nintendo).

Toivo Voll
Network Administrator
Information Technology Communications
University of South Florida



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]<mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]>
 On Behalf Of Rick Brown
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 13:52
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Sara,

We have not moved that way but are looking at implementing wireless in the 
dorms.   We have decided to factor in several things in determining the density 
of wireless.  You'll need to consider the fact that students are coming in with 
3-4 wireless devices per person these days with at least a couple being used 
simultaneously.  You'll also want to factor in the residence hall layouts.  
We've determined that we'll probably need to place at least one per suite.  
This is due both to multiple devices per user but also due to construction 
material and layout of the suites.  If you want to take full advantage of 
802.11N technology you'll also want to design based on 5GHz coverage with also 
reduces your coverage area.  Even in our older residence halls where there are 
two people per room and 4 to 5 bedrooms per suite one AP is going to be pushing 
it and we may find that we need two to a 8-10 person suite. Our residence ha

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Jennings, Zachariah E.]

I totally agree. They definitely make retrofitting an older dorm a lot easier.

Zach Jennings
Senior Network Server Manager
Aruba Certified Mobility Professional, Airheads MVP
West Chester University of PA
610-436-1069

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:46 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Yeah- but even better are single-gang flush mount. 
http://www.extremenetworks.com/products/altitude-4511.aspx who makes it is 
irrelevant to my point- just calling out the power of not running new wire for 
wireless on the ceiling when lots of it is sitting there unused in the wall.

But you do help make the point!


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]<mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]>
 On Behalf Of Jennings, Zachariah E.
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:39 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

You mean like this?
http://www.arubanetworks.com/product/aruba-ap-93h-access-point/

Zach Jennings
Senior Network Server Manager
Aruba Certified Mobility Professional, Airheads MVP
West Chester University of PA
610-436-1069

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]<mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]>
 On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:24 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Though slightly off topic, I gotta chime in. I wish all major vendors offered 
an in-wall wireless AP option- very empowering for environments with lots of 
unused UTP.

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]<mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]>
 On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:15 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Dorms are a bear to implement wireless, especially legacy buildings. We have 
had wireless APs in dorms for 6 years and have made several upgrades after 
discovering the weaknesses of different schemes.

Our two most difficult dorms are multi-bed apartments that are two-story inside 
the apartment. We elected to go with the Ruckus 2075 in-wall AP with four 
additional ports. The coverage has been excellent and we have only needed one 
per apartment. You may want to think of in-wall options similar to hotels.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 1/18/12 1:51 PM, Rick Brown wrote:
Sara,

We have not moved that way but are looking at implementing wireless in the 
dorms.   We have decided to factor in several things in determining the density 
of wireless.  You'll need to consider the fact that students are coming in with 
3-4 wireless devices per person these days with at least a couple being used 
simultaneously.  You'll also want to factor in the residence hall layouts.  
We've determined that we'll probably need to place at least one per suite.  
This is due both to multiple devices per user but also due to construction 
material and layout of the suites.  If you want to take full advantage of 
802.11N technology you'll also want to design based on 5GHz coverage with also 
reduces your coverage area.  Even in our older residence halls where there are 
two people per room and 4 to 5 bedrooms per suite one AP is going to be pushing 
it and we may find that we need two to a 8-10 person suite. Our residence halls 
tend to be constructed with concrete block with drastically reduces the 
coverage area of 5GHz.

I'm sure others that have already implemented wireless only can provide actual 
results but these are some of the things we're trying to factor in.

Rick



On 1/18/2012 1:05 PM, Laird, Sara M wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for anyone who has moved to wireless only dorms.  We have fast 
track dorm construction project that is starting and our CIO would like to make 
it wireless only.  I am wondering if anyone has done this and if so what kind 
of advice or comments can you share.  We will be using Cisco waps.  Also I am 
wondering what kind of ratio you based your access points on, how many devises 
per person.

Best Regards,

Sara

Sara M. Laird
Network Administrator
Mount Saint Mary's University
301.447.5014
Faith * Discovery * Leadership * Community

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Voll, Toivo]

I pretty much second Rick’s comments. We also don’t have wireless-only dorms 
yet, but the next one will have much less wire than our existing ones.

One AP per suite is what we’ve done, but you have to also consider non-RF 
placement issues – vandalism concerns, maintenance access and residents 
complaining about blinky lights above their beds.

Does the architect have issue with visible APs? If the APs are above ceiling / 
behind walls, do indeed check the materials and placement of ventilation ducts. 
Also, plan on PoE switches (and UPSes?) so power-cycling capability and 
visibility into the gear are improved.

Keep in mind that the tiling of 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz doesn’t have to be the same, 
nor power levels, since the number of non-overlapping channels differs. I’d try 
to find as many carrots as possible to steer people to 5 GHz. 2.4 GHz is a 
pain, with game console controllers, microwaves and number of other consumer 
devices adding to the lack of channels. Depending on your vendor, having a good 
ability to sniff the air / do spectrum analysis can be helpful in figuring out 
whether a wing just lost connectivity due to a microwave, misbehaving AP or 
rogue AP. Other design decisions – do you plan to support broadcast/multicast 
discovery (wireless printers, time capsules etc.) or legacy devices that 
require low data rates (i.e. Nintendo).

Toivo Voll
Network Administrator
Information Technology Communications
University of South Florida



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Rick Brown
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 13:52
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Sara,

We have not moved that way but are looking at implementing wireless in the 
dorms.   We have decided to factor in several things in determining the density 
of wireless.  You'll need to consider the fact that students are coming in with 
3-4 wireless devices per person these days with at least a couple being used 
simultaneously.  You'll also want to factor in the residence hall layouts.  
We've determined that we'll probably need to place at least one per suite.  
This is due both to multiple devices per user but also due to construction 
material and layout of the suites.  If you want to take full advantage of 
802.11N technology you'll also want to design based on 5GHz coverage with also 
reduces your coverage area.  Even in our older residence halls where there are 
two people per room and 4 to 5 bedrooms per suite one AP is going to be pushing 
it and we may find that we need two to a 8-10 person suite. Our residence halls 
tend to be constructed with concrete block with drastically reduces the 
coverage area of 5GHz.

I'm sure others that have already implemented wireless only can provide actual 
results but these are some of the things we're trying to factor in.

Rick



On 1/18/2012 1:05 PM, Laird, Sara M wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for anyone who has moved to wireless only dorms.  We have fast 
track dorm construction project that is starting and our CIO would like to make 
it wireless only.  I am wondering if anyone has done this and if so what kind 
of advice or comments can you share.  We will be using Cisco waps.  Also I am 
wondering what kind of ratio you based your access points on, how many devises 
per person.

Best Regards,

Sara

Sara M. Laird
Network Administrator
Mount Saint Mary's University
301.447.5014
Faith • Discovery • Leadership • Community
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

--
[cid:image001.png@01CCD5F0.36B01B00]
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
<>

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Lee H Badman]

Yeah- some are single-band with the notion that you'd put 5 GHz in one single 
gang existing cable location, 2.4 Ghz in the next... odd sounding at first, but 
opens up a lot of creative options (again, where you have existing UTP).

-Lee
 
 

-Original Message-
From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jethro R Binks
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:40 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Lee H Badman wrote:

> Though slightly off topic, I gotta chime in. I wish all major vendors 
> offered an in-wall wireless AP option- very empowering for environments 
> with lots of unused UTP.

Seems to be getting better.  Aruba have just announced something 
("wall-to-wall wifi"), HP introduced something last year, and Brocade's 
rebadged Motorola solution has had one for a while, and it seems Ruckus 
too.  Dunno about Cisco, but if not now it is probably coming.

Need to keep an eye on the capabilites of them though; some may or may 
not offer 11n, or maybe only at 2.4G.

Jethro.


> 
> Lee H. Badman
> Wireless/Network Engineer
> Information Technology and Services
> Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
> Syracuse University
> 315 443-3003
> 
> 
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:15 PM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?
> 
> Dorms are a bear to implement wireless, especially legacy buildings. We 
> have had wireless APs in dorms for 6 years and have made several 
> upgrades after discovering the weaknesses of different schemes.
> 
> Our two most difficult dorms are multi-bed apartments that are two-story 
> inside the apartment. We elected to go with the Ruckus 2075 in-wall AP 
> with four additional ports. The coverage has been excellent and we have 
> only needed one per apartment. You may want to think of in-wall options 
> similar to hotels.
> 
> Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
> Petersburg, FL 33711
> 
> On 1/18/12 1:51 PM, Rick Brown wrote:
> Sara,
> 
> We have not moved that way but are looking at implementing wireless in the 
> dorms.   We have decided to factor in several things in determining the 
> density of wireless.  You'll need to consider the fact that students are 
> coming in with 3-4 wireless devices per person these days with at least a 
> couple being used simultaneously.  You'll also want to factor in the 
> residence hall layouts.  We've determined that we'll probably need to place 
> at least one per suite.  This is due both to multiple devices per user but 
> also due to construction material and layout of the suites.  If you want to 
> take full advantage of 802.11N technology you'll also want to design based on 
> 5GHz coverage with also reduces your coverage area.  Even in our older 
> residence halls where there are two people per room and 4 to 5 bedrooms per 
> suite one AP is going to be pushing it and we may find that we need two to a 
> 8-10 person suite. Our residence halls tend to be constructed with concrete 
> block with drastica!
 lly reduces the coverage area of 5GHz.
> 
> I'm sure others that have already implemented wireless only can provide 
> actual results but these are some of the things we're trying to factor in.
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/18/2012 1:05 PM, Laird, Sara M wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am looking for anyone who has moved to wireless only dorms.  We have fast 
> track dorm construction project that is starting and our CIO would like to 
> make it wireless only.  I am wondering if anyone has done this and if so what 
> kind of advice or comments can you share.  We will be using Cisco waps.  Also 
> I am wondering what kind of ratio you based your access points on, how many 
> devises per person.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Sara
> 
> Sara M. Laird
> Network Administrator
> Mount Saint Mary's University
> 301.447.5014
> Faith * Discovery * Leadership * Community
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> 
> --
> [cid:image001.png@01CCD5EC.D565F9D0]
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> ht

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Lee H Badman]

Yeah- but even better are single-gang flush mount. 
http://www.extremenetworks.com/products/altitude-4511.aspx who makes it is 
irrelevant to my point- just calling out the power of not running new wire for 
wireless on the ceiling when lots of it is sitting there unused in the wall.

But you do help make the point!


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Jennings, Zachariah E.
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:39 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

You mean like this?
http://www.arubanetworks.com/product/aruba-ap-93h-access-point/

Zach Jennings
Senior Network Server Manager
Aruba Certified Mobility Professional, Airheads MVP
West Chester University of PA
610-436-1069

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:24 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Though slightly off topic, I gotta chime in. I wish all major vendors offered 
an in-wall wireless AP option- very empowering for environments with lots of 
unused UTP.

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]<mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]>
 On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:15 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Dorms are a bear to implement wireless, especially legacy buildings. We have 
had wireless APs in dorms for 6 years and have made several upgrades after 
discovering the weaknesses of different schemes.

Our two most difficult dorms are multi-bed apartments that are two-story inside 
the apartment. We elected to go with the Ruckus 2075 in-wall AP with four 
additional ports. The coverage has been excellent and we have only needed one 
per apartment. You may want to think of in-wall options similar to hotels.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 1/18/12 1:51 PM, Rick Brown wrote:
Sara,

We have not moved that way but are looking at implementing wireless in the 
dorms.   We have decided to factor in several things in determining the density 
of wireless.  You'll need to consider the fact that students are coming in with 
3-4 wireless devices per person these days with at least a couple being used 
simultaneously.  You'll also want to factor in the residence hall layouts.  
We've determined that we'll probably need to place at least one per suite.  
This is due both to multiple devices per user but also due to construction 
material and layout of the suites.  If you want to take full advantage of 
802.11N technology you'll also want to design based on 5GHz coverage with also 
reduces your coverage area.  Even in our older residence halls where there are 
two people per room and 4 to 5 bedrooms per suite one AP is going to be pushing 
it and we may find that we need two to a 8-10 person suite. Our residence halls 
tend to be constructed with concrete block with drastically reduces the 
coverage area of 5GHz.

I'm sure others that have already implemented wireless only can provide actual 
results but these are some of the things we're trying to factor in.

Rick



On 1/18/2012 1:05 PM, Laird, Sara M wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for anyone who has moved to wireless only dorms.  We have fast 
track dorm construction project that is starting and our CIO would like to make 
it wireless only.  I am wondering if anyone has done this and if so what kind 
of advice or comments can you share.  We will be using Cisco waps.  Also I am 
wondering what kind of ratio you based your access points on, how many devises 
per person.

Best Regards,

Sara

Sara M. Laird
Network Administrator
Mount Saint Mary's University
301.447.5014
Faith * Discovery * Leadership * Community
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

--
[cid:image001.png@01CCD5EF.85543490]
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription informa

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Jethro R Binks]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012, Lee H Badman wrote:

> Though slightly off topic, I gotta chime in. I wish all major vendors 
> offered an in-wall wireless AP option- very empowering for environments 
> with lots of unused UTP.

Seems to be getting better.  Aruba have just announced something 
("wall-to-wall wifi"), HP introduced something last year, and Brocade's 
rebadged Motorola solution has had one for a while, and it seems Ruckus 
too.  Dunno about Cisco, but if not now it is probably coming.

Need to keep an eye on the capabilites of them though; some may or may 
not offer 11n, or maybe only at 2.4G.

Jethro.


> 
> Lee H. Badman
> Wireless/Network Engineer
> Information Technology and Services
> Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
> Syracuse University
> 315 443-3003
> 
> 
> From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
> [mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:15 PM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?
> 
> Dorms are a bear to implement wireless, especially legacy buildings. We 
> have had wireless APs in dorms for 6 years and have made several 
> upgrades after discovering the weaknesses of different schemes.
> 
> Our two most difficult dorms are multi-bed apartments that are two-story 
> inside the apartment. We elected to go with the Ruckus 2075 in-wall AP 
> with four additional ports. The coverage has been excellent and we have 
> only needed one per apartment. You may want to think of in-wall options 
> similar to hotels.
> 
> Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
> Petersburg, FL 33711
> 
> On 1/18/12 1:51 PM, Rick Brown wrote:
> Sara,
> 
> We have not moved that way but are looking at implementing wireless in the 
> dorms.   We have decided to factor in several things in determining the 
> density of wireless.  You'll need to consider the fact that students are 
> coming in with 3-4 wireless devices per person these days with at least a 
> couple being used simultaneously.  You'll also want to factor in the 
> residence hall layouts.  We've determined that we'll probably need to place 
> at least one per suite.  This is due both to multiple devices per user but 
> also due to construction material and layout of the suites.  If you want to 
> take full advantage of 802.11N technology you'll also want to design based on 
> 5GHz coverage with also reduces your coverage area.  Even in our older 
> residence halls where there are two people per room and 4 to 5 bedrooms per 
> suite one AP is going to be pushing it and we may find that we need two to a 
> 8-10 person suite. Our residence halls tend to be constructed with concrete 
> block with drastically reduces the coverage area of 5GHz.
> 
> I'm sure others that have already implemented wireless only can provide 
> actual results but these are some of the things we're trying to factor in.
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/18/2012 1:05 PM, Laird, Sara M wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am looking for anyone who has moved to wireless only dorms.  We have fast 
> track dorm construction project that is starting and our CIO would like to 
> make it wireless only.  I am wondering if anyone has done this and if so what 
> kind of advice or comments can you share.  We will be using Cisco waps.  Also 
> I am wondering what kind of ratio you based your access points on, how many 
> devises per person.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Sara
> 
> Sara M. Laird
> Network Administrator
> Mount Saint Mary's University
> 301.447.5014
> Faith * Discovery * Leadership * Community
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> 
> --
> [cid:image001.png@01CCD5EC.D565F9D0]
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> ** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
> Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
> http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> 
> **
> Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent 
> Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
> 
> 

.  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
Jethro R Binks, Network Manager,
Information Services Directorate, University Of Strathclyde, Glasgow, UK

The University of Strathclyde is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, number SC015263.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Jennings, Zachariah E.]

You mean like this?
http://www.arubanetworks.com/product/aruba-ap-93h-access-point/

Zach Jennings
Senior Network Server Manager
Aruba Certified Mobility Professional, Airheads MVP
West Chester University of PA
610-436-1069

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:24 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Though slightly off topic, I gotta chime in. I wish all major vendors offered 
an in-wall wireless AP option- very empowering for environments with lots of 
unused UTP.

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]<mailto:[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU]>
 On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:15 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Dorms are a bear to implement wireless, especially legacy buildings. We have 
had wireless APs in dorms for 6 years and have made several upgrades after 
discovering the weaknesses of different schemes.

Our two most difficult dorms are multi-bed apartments that are two-story inside 
the apartment. We elected to go with the Ruckus 2075 in-wall AP with four 
additional ports. The coverage has been excellent and we have only needed one 
per apartment. You may want to think of in-wall options similar to hotels.
Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 1/18/12 1:51 PM, Rick Brown wrote:
Sara,

We have not moved that way but are looking at implementing wireless in the 
dorms.   We have decided to factor in several things in determining the density 
of wireless.  You'll need to consider the fact that students are coming in with 
3-4 wireless devices per person these days with at least a couple being used 
simultaneously.  You'll also want to factor in the residence hall layouts.  
We've determined that we'll probably need to place at least one per suite.  
This is due both to multiple devices per user but also due to construction 
material and layout of the suites.  If you want to take full advantage of 
802.11N technology you'll also want to design based on 5GHz coverage with also 
reduces your coverage area.  Even in our older residence halls where there are 
two people per room and 4 to 5 bedrooms per suite one AP is going to be pushing 
it and we may find that we need two to a 8-10 person suite. Our residence halls 
tend to be constructed with concrete block with drastically reduces the 
coverage area of 5GHz.

I'm sure others that have already implemented wireless only can provide actual 
results but these are some of the things we're trying to factor in.

Rick



On 1/18/2012 1:05 PM, Laird, Sara M wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for anyone who has moved to wireless only dorms.  We have fast 
track dorm construction project that is starting and our CIO would like to make 
it wireless only.  I am wondering if anyone has done this and if so what kind 
of advice or comments can you share.  We will be using Cisco waps.  Also I am 
wondering what kind of ratio you based your access points on, how many devises 
per person.

Best Regards,

Sara

Sara M. Laird
Network Administrator
Mount Saint Mary's University
301.447.5014
Faith * Discovery * Leadership * Community
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

--
[cid:image001.png@01CCD5EE.D8E6D140]
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

<>

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Hanset, Philippe C]

Sara,

We are testing wireless only, and here is what I would do if I were making a 
new dorm:
-Pull 2 UTP circuits to each room (it lasts decades and doesn't add that much 
to the total cost of the building)
-Activate those circuits only on request and for a fee (only have enough switch 
ports for your APs, don't buy electronics
for wired ports unless requested. You will most likely end up with spare ports 
on your switches for wireless anyway.
-5 and 2.4 GHz wireless everywhere with a maximum of 6-8 people per AP
-Locate APs in rooms using one of the two UTP (1 AP for 3 rooms, assuming 2 
people per room)
-Locate circuits in a convenient place for wired and wireless

Somewhat modular. In the future if you need more ports you can always use one 
of those APs with built-in hubs (e.g. Aruba 93H, Motorola, Hopefully Cisco will 
have one ;-)

Philippe

Philippe Hanset
Univ. of TN, Knoxville
www.eduroamus.org





On Jan 18, 2012, at 1:05 PM, Laird, Sara M wrote:

Hello,

I am looking for anyone who has moved to wireless only dorms.  We have fast 
track dorm construction project that is starting and our CIO would like to make 
it wireless only.  I am wondering if anyone has done this and if so what kind 
of advice or comments can you share.  We will be using Cisco waps.  Also I am 
wondering what kind of ratio you based your access points on, how many devises 
per person.

Best Regards,

Sara

Sara M. Laird
Network Administrator
Mount Saint Mary's University
301.447.5014
Faith * Discovery * Leadership * Community
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found 
athttp://www.educause.edu/groups/.








**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

[Lee H Badman]

Though slightly off topic, I gotta chime in. I wish all major vendors offered 
an in-wall wireless AP option- very empowering for environments with lots of 
unused UTP.

Lee H. Badman
Wireless/Network Engineer
Information Technology and Services
Adjunct Instructor, iSchool
Syracuse University
315 443-3003


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Constituent Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harry Rauch
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:15 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless only dorms, advice?

Dorms are a bear to implement wireless, especially legacy buildings. We have 
had wireless APs in dorms for 6 years and have made several upgrades after 
discovering the weaknesses of different schemes.

Our two most difficult dorms are multi-bed apartments that are two-story inside 
the apartment. We elected to go with the Ruckus 2075 in-wall AP with four 
additional ports. The coverage has been excellent and we have only needed one 
per apartment. You may want to think of in-wall options similar to hotels.

Harry Rauch Sr. Network Analyst Eckerd College 4200 - 54th Ave S St. 
Petersburg, FL 33711

On 1/18/12 1:51 PM, Rick Brown wrote:
Sara,

We have not moved that way but are looking at implementing wireless in the 
dorms.   We have decided to factor in several things in determining the density 
of wireless.  You'll need to consider the fact that students are coming in with 
3-4 wireless devices per person these days with at least a couple being used 
simultaneously.  You'll also want to factor in the residence hall layouts.  
We've determined that we'll probably need to place at least one per suite.  
This is due both to multiple devices per user but also due to construction 
material and layout of the suites.  If you want to take full advantage of 
802.11N technology you'll also want to design based on 5GHz coverage with also 
reduces your coverage area.  Even in our older residence halls where there are 
two people per room and 4 to 5 bedrooms per suite one AP is going to be pushing 
it and we may find that we need two to a 8-10 person suite. Our residence halls 
tend to be constructed with concrete block with drastically reduces the 
coverage area of 5GHz.

I'm sure others that have already implemented wireless only can provide actual 
results but these are some of the things we're trying to factor in.

Rick



On 1/18/2012 1:05 PM, Laird, Sara M wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for anyone who has moved to wireless only dorms.  We have fast 
track dorm construction project that is starting and our CIO would like to make 
it wireless only.  I am wondering if anyone has done this and if so what kind 
of advice or comments can you share.  We will be using Cisco waps.  Also I am 
wondering what kind of ratio you based your access points on, how many devises 
per person.

Best Regards,

Sara

Sara M. Laird
Network Administrator
Mount Saint Mary's University
301.447.5014
Faith * Discovery * Leadership * Community
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

--
[cid:image001.png@01CCD5EC.D565F9D0]
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.
** Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE 
Constituent Group discussion list can be found at 
http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

<>

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Phil Raymond]

Good point Dave. I find very few instances where designing for coverage alone 
is correct - as long as you are thinking about the future, even minimal 
capacity needs today should think about a capacity roadmap.
 
The key for Meru to jump over the issue with capacity in their single layer 
architecture is to provide multiple layers (aka multiple channels) in the same 
physical area. You can optimize the time splicing only so far and then you need 
multi AP radios (which I consider the precursor to 802.11n). Meru is supposed 
to have the 4 radio AP switch available now with the 8 radio next. There is 
also a company called Xirrus that makes a multi radio AP (up to 16 radios - 
quite a BW beast).
 
I don't know of any white papers on how Meru does the time slicing, but I don't 
keep up on their website. I just know that they manipulate the NAV (network 
allocation vector) which tells other handsets to holdoff (reserves the channel) 
while they can assign a voice client to transmit. They are manipulating the 
802.11 protocol to provide access prioritization - very clever.



From: Dave Molta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu 11/10/2005 3:35 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?



It's fairly easy to understand how the scheduling capabilities of Meru allow
it to maximize throughput and minimize latency using a single channel
throughout a building, but I still wonder about the aggregate capacity when
compared to a more traditional and well-implemented  overlapping cell design
that leverages all available spectrum. As long as your primary goal is
coverage rather than capacity, this is an excellent solution, but the whole
discussion of resnet wireless is more of a capacity issue and I'm guessing
that low-latency roaming won't be a big issue in the short term since resnet
users are more nomadic than mobile. Meru has been doing some interesting
work with multi-radio AP's that should allow them to enhance overall system
capacity but I don't think any of those products are available today.

dm

> -Original Message-
> From: Phil Raymond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:41 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?
>
> Interesting discussion ongoing...
>
> I work to remain agnostic in regards to WLAN vendors, but I
> do consider Meru a leader in developing/enabling 802.11
> technologies. Frank is correct in that they use the NAV to
> holdoff data clients while voice handsets gain airtime access
> (even tho they don't know it). This combined with their
> holistic view of the network and flat channel architecture
> (enables very fast roaming) certainly has its advantages.
> Until 802.11e/r becomes prevalent in handsets these
> mechanisms will serve its purpose because don't forget -
> 802.11 was never made to handle voice clients. But that will
> change over the next 2-3 years as cellular mechanisms are
> adopted into the WLAN via IEEE 802.11k/v, etc.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Frank Bulk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:18 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?
>
> Meru does not use PCF, but does use virtual carrier sense as
> their main mechanism to control access to the medium.
>
> Frank
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Griego [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:47 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?
>
> All of the issues listed here are great examples of the
> complex nature of designing an 802.11 environment with such
> stringent requirements. 
> With only 3 channels, even if you plan very carefully and
> precisely control the output power of your APs, you're going
> to get channel overlap.  This will further reduce your
> capacity due to the inherent collisions/retransmissions. 
> Especially when you factor in the client devices.  A client
> device transmitting on a channel will force any other device
> operating on the same channel that can hear it (APs included if
> course) to wait on it to complete its transmission before it
> can commence.
> So, you have to realize that, even though 2 APs may not be
> able to hear each other, a client card between them that can
> hear both of them will tie up available bandwidth on BOTH APs
> while it is transmitting.  Further complicating matters is a
> situation where two clients connected to two different APs on
> the same channel can hear each other but not both APs.
> In
> such a circumstance, client 1 and the AP 2 (the AP  client 2 is
> connected)
> may transmit simult

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Dave Molta]

It's fairly easy to understand how the scheduling capabilities of Meru allow
it to maximize throughput and minimize latency using a single channel
throughout a building, but I still wonder about the aggregate capacity when
compared to a more traditional and well-implemented  overlapping cell design
that leverages all available spectrum. As long as your primary goal is
coverage rather than capacity, this is an excellent solution, but the whole
discussion of resnet wireless is more of a capacity issue and I'm guessing
that low-latency roaming won't be a big issue in the short term since resnet
users are more nomadic than mobile. Meru has been doing some interesting
work with multi-radio AP's that should allow them to enhance overall system
capacity but I don't think any of those products are available today.

dm 

> -Original Message-
> From: Phil Raymond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:41 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?
> 
> Interesting discussion ongoing...
> 
> I work to remain agnostic in regards to WLAN vendors, but I 
> do consider Meru a leader in developing/enabling 802.11 
> technologies. Frank is correct in that they use the NAV to 
> holdoff data clients while voice handsets gain airtime access 
> (even tho they don't know it). This combined with their 
> holistic view of the network and flat channel architecture 
> (enables very fast roaming) certainly has its advantages.
> Until 802.11e/r becomes prevalent in handsets these 
> mechanisms will serve its purpose because don't forget - 
> 802.11 was never made to handle voice clients. But that will 
> change over the next 2-3 years as cellular mechanisms are 
> adopted into the WLAN via IEEE 802.11k/v, etc.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Frank Bulk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:18 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?
> 
> Meru does not use PCF, but does use virtual carrier sense as 
> their main mechanism to control access to the medium.
> 
> Frank 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Griego [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:47 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?
> 
> All of the issues listed here are great examples of the 
> complex nature of designing an 802.11 environment with such 
> stringent requirements.  
> With only 3 channels, even if you plan very carefully and 
> precisely control the output power of your APs, you're going 
> to get channel overlap.  This will further reduce your 
> capacity due to the inherent collisions/retransmissions.  
> Especially when you factor in the client devices.  A client 
> device transmitting on a channel will force any other device 
> operating on the same channel that can hear it (APs included if
> course) to wait on it to complete its transmission before it 
> can commence.
> So, you have to realize that, even though 2 APs may not be 
> able to hear each other, a client card between them that can 
> hear both of them will tie up available bandwidth on BOTH APs 
> while it is transmitting.  Further complicating matters is a 
> situation where two clients connected to two different APs on 
> the same channel can hear each other but not both APs.
> In
> such a circumstance, client 1 and the AP 2 (the AP  client 2 is
> connected)
> may transmit simultaneously.  When this happens the signals 
> will interfere with each other upon reaching client 2, 
> causing client 2 to be unable to decode the packet, forcing 
> AP 2 to retransmit the packet.
> 
> Complicated indeed!  Guaranteeing signal strengh and 
> bandwidth alotments is extremely difficult.  And, this 
> totally ignores the problems inherent with outside 
> interference or the fact that the environment (bookshelves,
> etc) change on a regular basis, possibly forcing you to 
> revisit your ever-so-finely-tuned RF plan.  Interestingly 
> enough, all these issues are also extremely relevant if 
> you're interested in looking to deploy any sort of VoIP/WiFi (VoFi).
> 
> I'd suggest that, if you're truly interested in providing 
> coverage/bandwidth that takes a lot of these issues into 
> account, you might want to take a look at the Meru Virtual AP 
> architecture.  The controllers in these systems keep track of 
> every 802.11 device each AP can here and employ a pretty darn 
> impressive scheduling algorithm for getting the most out of 
> the available channel capacity.  Not only that, but they 
> actually control when clients are allowed to transmit, 
>

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Phil Raymond]

Interesting discussion ongoing...

I work to remain agnostic in regards to WLAN vendors, but I do consider
Meru a leader in developing/enabling 802.11 technologies. Frank is
correct in that they use the NAV to holdoff data clients while voice
handsets gain airtime access (even tho they don't know it). This
combined with their holistic view of the network and flat channel
architecture (enables very fast roaming) certainly has its advantages.
Until 802.11e/r becomes prevalent in handsets these mechanisms will
serve its purpose because don't forget - 802.11 was never made to handle
voice clients. But that will change over the next 2-3 years as cellular
mechanisms are adopted into the WLAN via IEEE 802.11k/v, etc.

-Original Message-
From: Frank Bulk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:18 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

Meru does not use PCF, but does use virtual carrier sense as their main
mechanism to control access to the medium.

Frank 

-Original Message-
From: Michael Griego [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:47 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

All of the issues listed here are great examples of the complex nature
of
designing an 802.11 environment with such stringent requirements.  
With only 3 channels, even if you plan very carefully and precisely
control
the output power of your APs, you're going to get channel overlap.  This
will further reduce your capacity due to the inherent
collisions/retransmissions.  Especially when you factor in the client
devices.  A client device transmitting on a channel will force any other
device operating on the same channel that can hear it (APs included if
course) to wait on it to complete its transmission before it can
commence.
So, you have to realize that, even though 2 APs may not be able to hear
each
other, a client card between them that can hear both of them will tie up
available bandwidth on BOTH APs while it is transmitting.  Further
complicating matters is a situation where two clients connected to two
different APs on the same channel can hear each other but not both APs.
In
such a circumstance, client 1 and the AP 2 (the AP  client 2 is
connected)
may transmit simultaneously.  When this happens the signals will
interfere
with each other upon reaching client 2, causing client 2 to be unable to
decode the packet, forcing AP 2 to retransmit the packet.

Complicated indeed!  Guaranteeing signal strengh and bandwidth alotments
is
extremely difficult.  And, this totally ignores the problems inherent
with
outside interference or the fact that the environment (bookshelves,
etc) change on a regular basis, possibly forcing you to revisit your
ever-so-finely-tuned RF plan.  Interestingly enough, all these issues
are
also extremely relevant if you're interested in looking to deploy any
sort
of VoIP/WiFi (VoFi).

I'd suggest that, if you're truly interested in providing
coverage/bandwidth
that takes a lot of these issues into account, you might want to take a
look
at the Meru Virtual AP architecture.  The controllers in these systems
keep
track of every 802.11 device each AP can here and employ a pretty darn
impressive scheduling algorithm for getting the most out of the
available
channel capacity.  Not only that, but they actually control when clients
are
allowed to transmit, further removing unknowns from the RF use equations
and
improving channel usage and capacity.  I believe they do this using the
PCF,
or Point Coordination Function, in the 802.11 spec...  I've not seen any
other wireless switch system that makes use of it near to the level that
the
Meru system does.  It's pretty cool.  We're in the process of deploying
Meru
as our second generation wireless overlay here at UTD, mainly to
decrease
the need for complex channel planning, individual AP configuration, and
to
support a future VoFi implementation.

--Mike


Phil Raymond wrote:
> If someone forced me to assign a rule of thumb at this high level, I 
> would assign a conservative data rate of 1 Mbps to each student as a 
> requirement. For an 802.11g ONLY network running at the highest data 
> rate (aka strongest signal) using enterprise class AP's (data thruput 
> does vary between AP vendors, be careful here), you should expect to 
> get 15-20 Mbps of upper layer thruput per AP. That would yield 15-20 
> students per AP. For 802.11a, this will probably hold. For 802.11g, 
> due to the limit of 3 channels, you will get an overall reduction in 
> capacity due to shared bandwidth between AP's in a densely deployed AP

> environment.
>
> Also, this assumes that you design the network for the highest signal 
> strength - a very important point. In most instances this won't be 
> possible due to the environment. Thus I

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Frank Bulk]

Meru does not use PCF, but does use virtual carrier sense as their main
mechanism to control access to the medium.

Frank 

-Original Message-
From: Michael Griego [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:47 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

All of the issues listed here are great examples of the complex nature of
designing an 802.11 environment with such stringent requirements.  
With only 3 channels, even if you plan very carefully and precisely control
the output power of your APs, you're going to get channel overlap.  This
will further reduce your capacity due to the inherent
collisions/retransmissions.  Especially when you factor in the client
devices.  A client device transmitting on a channel will force any other
device operating on the same channel that can hear it (APs included if
course) to wait on it to complete its transmission before it can commence.
So, you have to realize that, even though 2 APs may not be able to hear each
other, a client card between them that can hear both of them will tie up
available bandwidth on BOTH APs while it is transmitting.  Further
complicating matters is a situation where two clients connected to two
different APs on the same channel can hear each other but not both APs.  In
such a circumstance, client 1 and the AP 2 (the AP  client 2 is connected)
may transmit simultaneously.  When this happens the signals will interfere
with each other upon reaching client 2, causing client 2 to be unable to
decode the packet, forcing AP 2 to retransmit the packet.

Complicated indeed!  Guaranteeing signal strengh and bandwidth alotments is
extremely difficult.  And, this totally ignores the problems inherent with
outside interference or the fact that the environment (bookshelves,
etc) change on a regular basis, possibly forcing you to revisit your
ever-so-finely-tuned RF plan.  Interestingly enough, all these issues are
also extremely relevant if you're interested in looking to deploy any sort
of VoIP/WiFi (VoFi).

I'd suggest that, if you're truly interested in providing coverage/bandwidth
that takes a lot of these issues into account, you might want to take a look
at the Meru Virtual AP architecture.  The controllers in these systems keep
track of every 802.11 device each AP can here and employ a pretty darn
impressive scheduling algorithm for getting the most out of the available
channel capacity.  Not only that, but they actually control when clients are
allowed to transmit, further removing unknowns from the RF use equations and
improving channel usage and capacity.  I believe they do this using the PCF,
or Point Coordination Function, in the 802.11 spec...  I've not seen any
other wireless switch system that makes use of it near to the level that the
Meru system does.  It's pretty cool.  We're in the process of deploying Meru
as our second generation wireless overlay here at UTD, mainly to decrease
the need for complex channel planning, individual AP configuration, and to
support a future VoFi implementation.

--Mike


Phil Raymond wrote:
> If someone forced me to assign a rule of thumb at this high level, I 
> would assign a conservative data rate of 1 Mbps to each student as a 
> requirement. For an 802.11g ONLY network running at the highest data 
> rate (aka strongest signal) using enterprise class AP's (data thruput 
> does vary between AP vendors, be careful here), you should expect to 
> get 15-20 Mbps of upper layer thruput per AP. That would yield 15-20 
> students per AP. For 802.11a, this will probably hold. For 802.11g, 
> due to the limit of 3 channels, you will get an overall reduction in 
> capacity due to shared bandwidth between AP's in a densely deployed AP 
> environment.
>
> Also, this assumes that you design the network for the highest signal 
> strength - a very important point. In most instances this won't be 
> possible due to the environment. Thus I would reduce the available 
> bandwidth by 33% and say that 10Mbps is available.
>
> Hence I would go with the low end of 10Mbps available per AP.
>
> To take this to a lower level of analysis, I would want to know what 
> applications the students would be running. Perhaps you use the 
> analogy of a low end DSL connection that provides 768Kbps downlink and 
> 128kbps uplink. Then you stick with the 1 Mbps/student and assume it 
> supports most if not all applications they will use. You might also 
> consider a swag at peak operating times (evenings) and assume ~50% of 
> the available students are online (simple queuing theory assumption). 
> Then you could say that a single AP would cover minimally 20 students. 
> There is my rule of thumb at this high level. I would consider it 
> conservative if you design the network properly.
>
> In a typical dorm with a lot of wal

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Michael Griego]

After taking a quick look at the Extricom whitepaper on their solution, 
it looks like they do mostly the same thing, however they create 3 
"virtual APs", one for each channel.  While this would increase 
capacity, it also creates the possibility that clients could be 
"enticed" to perform a client-side roam between the 3 wireless clouds 
(or "blankets" as they call them).  Avoidance of client-side roaming 
operations is one of the key benefits of these architectures when it 
comes to VoFi, so I'd have to see the solution in operation to decide if 
that concern is warranted, or if the other 2 "blankets" are even 
necessary for day-to-day operations.  Having the 3 "blankets" basically 
means 3 separate radios per AP, increasing the per-AP cost.


--Mike


Jamie A. Stapleton wrote:

I believe that http://www.extricom.com/ does almost the same thing that
Meru does.  Has anyone compared/contrasted the two?

Jamie A. Stapleton
CBSi - Connecting your problems with solutions.
FlexiCall:  (804) 412-1601
Facsimile:  (804) 412-1611

-Original Message-
From: Michael Griego [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:47 PM

To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

All of the issues listed here are great examples of the complex nature
of designing an 802.11 environment with such stringent requirements.  
With only 3 channels, even if you plan very carefully and precisely

control the output power of your APs, you're going to get channel
overlap.  This will further reduce your capacity due to the inherent
collisions/retransmissions.  Especially when you factor in the client
devices.  A client device transmitting on a channel will force any other
device operating on the same channel that can hear it (APs included if
course) to wait on it to complete its transmission before it can
commence.  So, you have to realize that, even though 2 APs may not be
able to hear each other, a client card between them that can hear both
of them will tie up available bandwidth on BOTH APs while it is
transmitting.  Further complicating matters is a situation where two
clients connected to two different APs on the same channel can hear each
other but not both APs.  In such a circumstance, client 1 and the AP 2
(the AP  client 2 is connected) may transmit simultaneously.  When this
happens the signals will interfere with each other upon reaching client
2, causing client 2 to be unable to decode the packet, forcing AP 2 to
retransmit the packet.

Complicated indeed!  Guaranteeing signal strengh and bandwidth alotments
is extremely difficult.  And, this totally ignores the problems inherent
with outside interference or the fact that the environment (bookshelves,
etc) change on a regular basis, possibly forcing you to revisit your
ever-so-finely-tuned RF plan.  Interestingly enough, all these issues
are also extremely relevant if you're interested in looking to deploy
any sort of VoIP/WiFi (VoFi).

I'd suggest that, if you're truly interested in providing
coverage/bandwidth that takes a lot of these issues into account, you
might want to take a look at the Meru Virtual AP architecture.  The
controllers in these systems keep track of every 802.11 device each AP
can here and employ a pretty darn impressive scheduling algorithm for
getting the most out of the available channel capacity.  Not only that,
but they actually control when clients are allowed to transmit, further
removing unknowns from the RF use equations and improving channel usage
and capacity.  I believe they do this using the PCF, or Point
Coordination Function, in the 802.11 spec...  I've not seen any other
wireless switch system that makes use of it near to the level that the
Meru system does.  It's pretty cool.  We're in the process of deploying
Meru as our second generation wireless overlay here at UTD, mainly to
decrease the need for complex channel planning, individual AP
configuration, and to support a future VoFi implementation.

--Mike


Phil Raymond wrote:
  
If someone forced me to assign a rule of thumb at this high level, I 
would assign a conservative data rate of 1 Mbps to each student as a 
requirement. For an 802.11g ONLY network running at the highest data 
rate (aka strongest signal) using enterprise class AP's (data thruput 
does vary between AP vendors, be careful here), you should expect to 
get 15-20 Mbps of upper layer thruput per AP. That would yield 15-20 
students per AP. For 802.11a, this will probably hold. For 802.11g, 
due to the limit of 3 channels, you will get an overall reduction in 
capacity due to shared bandwidth between AP's in a densely deployed AP



  

environment.

Also, this assumes that you design the network for the highest signal 
strength - a very important point. In most instances this won't be 
possible due to the environment. Thus I would reduce

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Ruiz, Mike]

We have indeed reviewed both products.  Currently we are a Meru user
with nearly 150 AP's online.  Since then we continue to monitor what
similar technologies are emerging.

In essence they are both similar, however there are key differences.  

The key differences are:
   The Extricom product doesn't operate at a full 100mW of power as most
vendors, they run at 17dB according to their spec sheet.  
It also appears that the Extricom APs must connect directly to their
switch and that they don't have seamless roaming from one switch to the
next.  *this is one where clarification is needed but based on their
sheets and what I read from other sources*
I am looking to find out if their switch operates as a centralized
mac, it is a common solution for people trying to execute this
architecture but would mean that all ap on a single switch would share
bandwidth.

We have been quite pleased with Meru from a user density and bandwidth
perspective.

Mike


Mike Ruiz, ESSE ACP A+
Network and Systems Engineer
Hobart and William Smith Colleges


-Original Message-
From: Jamie A. Stapleton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:55 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

I believe that http://www.extricom.com/ does almost the same thing that
Meru does.  Has anyone compared/contrasted the two?

Jamie A. Stapleton
CBSi - Connecting your problems with solutions.
FlexiCall:  (804) 412-1601
Facsimile:  (804) 412-1611

-Original Message-
From: Michael Griego [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:47 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

All of the issues listed here are great examples of the complex nature
of designing an 802.11 environment with such stringent requirements.  
With only 3 channels, even if you plan very carefully and precisely
control the output power of your APs, you're going to get channel
overlap.  This will further reduce your capacity due to the inherent
collisions/retransmissions.  Especially when you factor in the client
devices.  A client device transmitting on a channel will force any other
device operating on the same channel that can hear it (APs included if
course) to wait on it to complete its transmission before it can
commence.  So, you have to realize that, even though 2 APs may not be
able to hear each other, a client card between them that can hear both
of them will tie up available bandwidth on BOTH APs while it is
transmitting.  Further complicating matters is a situation where two
clients connected to two different APs on the same channel can hear each
other but not both APs.  In such a circumstance, client 1 and the AP 2
(the AP  client 2 is connected) may transmit simultaneously.  When this
happens the signals will interfere with each other upon reaching client
2, causing client 2 to be unable to decode the packet, forcing AP 2 to
retransmit the packet.

Complicated indeed!  Guaranteeing signal strengh and bandwidth alotments
is extremely difficult.  And, this totally ignores the problems inherent
with outside interference or the fact that the environment (bookshelves,
etc) change on a regular basis, possibly forcing you to revisit your
ever-so-finely-tuned RF plan.  Interestingly enough, all these issues
are also extremely relevant if you're interested in looking to deploy
any sort of VoIP/WiFi (VoFi).

I'd suggest that, if you're truly interested in providing
coverage/bandwidth that takes a lot of these issues into account, you
might want to take a look at the Meru Virtual AP architecture.  The
controllers in these systems keep track of every 802.11 device each AP
can here and employ a pretty darn impressive scheduling algorithm for
getting the most out of the available channel capacity.  Not only that,
but they actually control when clients are allowed to transmit, further
removing unknowns from the RF use equations and improving channel usage
and capacity.  I believe they do this using the PCF, or Point
Coordination Function, in the 802.11 spec...  I've not seen any other
wireless switch system that makes use of it near to the level that the
Meru system does.  It's pretty cool.  We're in the process of deploying
Meru as our second generation wireless overlay here at UTD, mainly to
decrease the need for complex channel planning, individual AP
configuration, and to support a future VoFi implementation.

--Mike


Phil Raymond wrote:
> If someone forced me to assign a rule of thumb at this high level, I 
> would assign a conservative data rate of 1 Mbps to each student as a 
> requirement. For an 802.11g ONLY network running at the highest data 
> rate (aka strongest signal) using enterprise class AP's (data thruput 
> does vary between AP vendors, be careful here), you should expect to 
> get 15-20 Mbps of upper layer thruput per AP. T

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Jamie A. Stapleton]

I believe that http://www.extricom.com/ does almost the same thing that
Meru does.  Has anyone compared/contrasted the two?

Jamie A. Stapleton
CBSi - Connecting your problems with solutions.
FlexiCall:  (804) 412-1601
Facsimile:  (804) 412-1611

-Original Message-
From: Michael Griego [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:47 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

All of the issues listed here are great examples of the complex nature
of designing an 802.11 environment with such stringent requirements.  
With only 3 channels, even if you plan very carefully and precisely
control the output power of your APs, you're going to get channel
overlap.  This will further reduce your capacity due to the inherent
collisions/retransmissions.  Especially when you factor in the client
devices.  A client device transmitting on a channel will force any other
device operating on the same channel that can hear it (APs included if
course) to wait on it to complete its transmission before it can
commence.  So, you have to realize that, even though 2 APs may not be
able to hear each other, a client card between them that can hear both
of them will tie up available bandwidth on BOTH APs while it is
transmitting.  Further complicating matters is a situation where two
clients connected to two different APs on the same channel can hear each
other but not both APs.  In such a circumstance, client 1 and the AP 2
(the AP  client 2 is connected) may transmit simultaneously.  When this
happens the signals will interfere with each other upon reaching client
2, causing client 2 to be unable to decode the packet, forcing AP 2 to
retransmit the packet.

Complicated indeed!  Guaranteeing signal strengh and bandwidth alotments
is extremely difficult.  And, this totally ignores the problems inherent
with outside interference or the fact that the environment (bookshelves,
etc) change on a regular basis, possibly forcing you to revisit your
ever-so-finely-tuned RF plan.  Interestingly enough, all these issues
are also extremely relevant if you're interested in looking to deploy
any sort of VoIP/WiFi (VoFi).

I'd suggest that, if you're truly interested in providing
coverage/bandwidth that takes a lot of these issues into account, you
might want to take a look at the Meru Virtual AP architecture.  The
controllers in these systems keep track of every 802.11 device each AP
can here and employ a pretty darn impressive scheduling algorithm for
getting the most out of the available channel capacity.  Not only that,
but they actually control when clients are allowed to transmit, further
removing unknowns from the RF use equations and improving channel usage
and capacity.  I believe they do this using the PCF, or Point
Coordination Function, in the 802.11 spec...  I've not seen any other
wireless switch system that makes use of it near to the level that the
Meru system does.  It's pretty cool.  We're in the process of deploying
Meru as our second generation wireless overlay here at UTD, mainly to
decrease the need for complex channel planning, individual AP
configuration, and to support a future VoFi implementation.

--Mike


Phil Raymond wrote:
> If someone forced me to assign a rule of thumb at this high level, I 
> would assign a conservative data rate of 1 Mbps to each student as a 
> requirement. For an 802.11g ONLY network running at the highest data 
> rate (aka strongest signal) using enterprise class AP's (data thruput 
> does vary between AP vendors, be careful here), you should expect to 
> get 15-20 Mbps of upper layer thruput per AP. That would yield 15-20 
> students per AP. For 802.11a, this will probably hold. For 802.11g, 
> due to the limit of 3 channels, you will get an overall reduction in 
> capacity due to shared bandwidth between AP's in a densely deployed AP

> environment.
>
> Also, this assumes that you design the network for the highest signal 
> strength - a very important point. In most instances this won't be 
> possible due to the environment. Thus I would reduce the available 
> bandwidth by 33% and say that 10Mbps is available.
>
> Hence I would go with the low end of 10Mbps available per AP.
>
> To take this to a lower level of analysis, I would want to know what 
> applications the students would be running. Perhaps you use the 
> analogy of a low end DSL connection that provides 768Kbps downlink and

> 128kbps uplink. Then you stick with the 1 Mbps/student and assume it 
> supports most if not all applications they will use. You might also 
> consider a swag at peak operating times (evenings) and assume ~50% of 
> the available students are online (simple queuing theory assumption). 
> Then you could say that a single AP would cover minimally 20 students.

> There is my rule of thumb at this high leve

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Michael Griego]

ered here are the use of client cards.
Performance between different manufacturers (you get what you pay for)
will vary. Some cards will be noisy and interfere, others will have
higher SNR requirements, etc.

Hope this helps and not confuses - as I said, it is not a trivial
subject.

-Original Message-
From: Larry Press [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 9:51 AM

To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

Phil Raymond wrote:

  

The initial design needs to consider coverage AND capacity.



Phil (and others),

Have you got a rule of thumb for the number of students per G access
point 
in a college dorm?


Larry Press

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RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Dave Molta]

The other factor that shouldn't be ignored is the role that clients play in
contributing to co-channel interference issues in dense deployment WLANs.
It's relatively easy (albeit expensive) to design micro-cell AP
configurations that maximize per-user bandwidth by reducing power output on
the AP. However, it's much tougher to control power output at the client,
both because some client adapters/drivers do not support this capacility and
also because you need to touch the clients in order to do so. This problem
is mitigated somewhat by the asymetrical nature of most client
communications (more downstream than upstream bandwidth consumption) though
this is beginning to change with more and more PtP applications. Also, while
this problem wasn't as great an issue in the past when PC-Cards were used on
notebook computers, the enhanced wireless capabilities of the latest
notebook computer designs -- especially the quality of embedded antennas --
has the effect of making notebooks more powerful RF radiators.

The other point I would make with respect to capacity is that it is
essential to take advantage of all available spectrum. That means
implementing multi-band abg access points and -- this is a tough part --
getting users to purchase notebooks with abg support. Although notebook
manufacturers don't like to disclose numbers, I believe well over 85% of
notebooks still ship with bg rather than abg interfaces, even though the
incremental cost of abg is minimal. The good news is that it's not essential
to get all of your users on 11a, but moving a significant portion of them
makes performance better for everyone.

dm

> -Original Message-
> From: Metzler, David [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:10 PM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?
> 
> Nice synopsis, Phil. 
> 
> I would add that the issue about bandwidth overlap in densly 
> populated areas can be partially mitigated by making sure you 
> select a vendor that has the ability to automatically 
> decrease power to reduce overlap.
> Some do this, some don't. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Phil Raymond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:58 AM
> To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?
> 
> If someone forced me to assign a rule of thumb at this high 
> level, I would assign a conservative data rate of 1 Mbps to 
> each student as a requirement. For an 802.11g ONLY network 
> running at the highest data rate (aka strongest signal) using 
> enterprise class AP's (data thruput does vary between AP 
> vendors, be careful here), you should expect to get 15-20 
> Mbps of upper layer thruput per AP. That would yield 15-20 
> students per AP. For 802.11a, this will probably hold. For 
> 802.11g, due to the limit of 3 channels, you will get an 
> overall reduction in capacity due to shared bandwidth between 
> AP's in a densely deployed AP environment. 
> 
> Also, this assumes that you design the network for the 
> highest signal strength - a very important point. In most 
> instances this won't be possible due to the environment. Thus 
> I would reduce the available bandwidth by 33% and say that 
> 10Mbps is available.
> 
> Hence I would go with the low end of 10Mbps available per AP.
> 
> To take this to a lower level of analysis, I would want to 
> know what applications the students would be running. Perhaps 
> you use the analogy of a low end DSL connection that provides 
> 768Kbps downlink and 128kbps uplink. Then you stick with the 
> 1 Mbps/student and assume it supports most if not all 
> applications they will use. You might also consider a swag at 
> peak operating times (evenings) and assume ~50% of the 
> available students are online (simple queuing theory 
> assumption). Then you could say that a single AP would cover 
> minimally 20 students. There is my rule of thumb at this high 
> level. I would consider it conservative if you design the 
> network properly.
> 
> In a typical dorm with a lot of walls (and bookcases...), you 
> will probably find that your coverage requirements and 
> capacity requirements will be in alignment (and thus 
> balanced). What I mean by that is that you will find that in 
> order to provide a good signal in a dorm environment you will 
> need to place a denser AP deployment (due to the thick walls, 
> etc.). This means that as a consequence your capacity will 
> also be increased due to the denser deployment.
> 
> Other factors not considered here are the use of client cards.
> Performance between different manufacturers (you get what you 
> pay for) will vary. Some cards will be noisy and interfere, 
&

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Metzler, David]

Nice synopsis, Phil. 

I would add that the issue about bandwidth overlap in densly populated
areas can be partially mitigated by making sure you select a vendor that
has the ability to automatically decrease power to reduce overlap.
Some do this, some don't. 

-Original Message-
From: Phil Raymond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:58 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

If someone forced me to assign a rule of thumb at this high level, I
would assign a conservative data rate of 1 Mbps to each student as a
requirement. For an 802.11g ONLY network running at the highest data
rate (aka strongest signal) using enterprise class AP's (data thruput
does vary between AP vendors, be careful here), you should expect to get
15-20 Mbps of upper layer thruput per AP. That would yield 15-20
students per AP. For 802.11a, this will probably hold. For 802.11g, due
to the limit of 3 channels, you will get an overall reduction in
capacity due to shared bandwidth between AP's in a densely deployed AP
environment. 

Also, this assumes that you design the network for the highest signal
strength - a very important point. In most instances this won't be
possible due to the environment. Thus I would reduce the available
bandwidth by 33% and say that 10Mbps is available.

Hence I would go with the low end of 10Mbps available per AP.

To take this to a lower level of analysis, I would want to know what
applications the students would be running. Perhaps you use the analogy
of a low end DSL connection that provides 768Kbps downlink and 128kbps
uplink. Then you stick with the 1 Mbps/student and assume it supports
most if not all applications they will use. You might also consider a
swag at peak operating times (evenings) and assume ~50% of the available
students are online (simple queuing theory assumption). Then you could
say that a single AP would cover minimally 20 students. There is my rule
of thumb at this high level. I would consider it conservative if you
design the network properly.

In a typical dorm with a lot of walls (and bookcases...), you will
probably find that your coverage requirements and capacity requirements
will be in alignment (and thus balanced). What I mean by that is that
you will find that in order to provide a good signal in a dorm
environment you will need to place a denser AP deployment (due to the
thick walls, etc.). This means that as a consequence your capacity will
also be increased due to the denser deployment.

Other factors not considered here are the use of client cards.
Performance between different manufacturers (you get what you pay for)
will vary. Some cards will be noisy and interfere, others will have
higher SNR requirements, etc.

Hope this helps and not confuses - as I said, it is not a trivial
subject.

-Original Message-
From: Larry Press [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 9:51 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

Phil Raymond wrote:

> The initial design needs to consider coverage AND capacity.

Phil (and others),

Have you got a rule of thumb for the number of students per G access
point in a college dorm?

Larry Press

**
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Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

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**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent Group 
discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Phil Raymond]

If someone forced me to assign a rule of thumb at this high level, I
would assign a conservative data rate of 1 Mbps to each student as a
requirement. For an 802.11g ONLY network running at the highest data
rate (aka strongest signal) using enterprise class AP's (data thruput
does vary between AP vendors, be careful here), you should expect to get
15-20 Mbps of upper layer thruput per AP. That would yield 15-20
students per AP. For 802.11a, this will probably hold. For 802.11g, due
to the limit of 3 channels, you will get an overall reduction in
capacity due to shared bandwidth between AP's in a densely deployed AP
environment. 

Also, this assumes that you design the network for the highest signal
strength - a very important point. In most instances this won't be
possible due to the environment. Thus I would reduce the available
bandwidth by 33% and say that 10Mbps is available.

Hence I would go with the low end of 10Mbps available per AP.

To take this to a lower level of analysis, I would want to know what
applications the students would be running. Perhaps you use the analogy
of a low end DSL connection that provides 768Kbps downlink and 128kbps
uplink. Then you stick with the 1 Mbps/student and assume it supports
most if not all applications they will use. You might also consider a
swag at peak operating times (evenings) and assume ~50% of the available
students are online (simple queuing theory assumption). Then you could
say that a single AP would cover minimally 20 students. There is my rule
of thumb at this high level. I would consider it conservative if you
design the network properly.

In a typical dorm with a lot of walls (and bookcases...), you will
probably find that your coverage requirements and capacity requirements
will be in alignment (and thus balanced). What I mean by that is that
you will find that in order to provide a good signal in a dorm
environment you will need to place a denser AP deployment (due to the
thick walls, etc.). This means that as a consequence your capacity will
also be increased due to the denser deployment.

Other factors not considered here are the use of client cards.
Performance between different manufacturers (you get what you pay for)
will vary. Some cards will be noisy and interfere, others will have
higher SNR requirements, etc.

Hope this helps and not confuses - as I said, it is not a trivial
subject.

-Original Message-
From: Larry Press [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 9:51 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

Phil Raymond wrote:

> The initial design needs to consider coverage AND capacity.

Phil (and others),

Have you got a rule of thumb for the number of students per G access
point 
in a college dorm?

Larry Press

**
Participation and subscription information for this EDUCAUSE Constituent
Group discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

**
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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Larry Press]

Phil Raymond wrote:


The initial design needs to consider coverage AND capacity.


Phil (and others),

Have you got a rule of thumb for the number of students per G access point 
in a college dorm?


Larry Press

**
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discussion list can be found at http://www.educause.edu/groups/.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Phil Raymond]

Theresa is absolutely correct. Installing wireless only dorms to
students that expect and are used to broadband wired access is not
trivial and requires careful planning and policy setting. A typical
802.11b AP is analogous to a half duplex 10 Mbps ethernet connection
from yesteryear...

However, the value of having broadband wireless access has many
advantages and if done right will be the envy of other students. Not
being tethered to a wall jack while gaming or internet/research access,
or using wireless skype handsets for near toll free calling is very
appealing to students. 

The initial design needs to consider coverage AND capacity. What
applications multiplied by the number of users will dictate the capacity
(high BW requirement app's such as gaming or music/video streaming,
VoWLAN, etc). Generally, designing for capacity in high BW environments
will yield good coverage, and any remaining coverage holes can be filled
after a good site survey analysis.

Setting and managing a good policy is also important. Security and
access measures, support for 802.11a/g limiting 802.11b access,
permitted hardware (everyone's lives will be easier if you only allow
enterprise class wireless NIC's), etc.

The ironic part is that if you do provide wired access, you can expect
that students will plug in their own AP's, which is probably the biggest
security threat (insecure rogue AP's creating network holes).

It can be done, but it is not trivial and the more planning and upfront
work done will reduce headaches in the future.

Since you are probably enticed by the thought of 802.11n, it is not a
good solution until the standard is released and enterprise class AP's
are available (2 years away?). The devices today are NOT enterprise
class and are not standards compliant. If you limit the WLAN to
802.11a/g only, you will have multiplied your capacity several times
over an 802.11b network and be taking advantage of all that BW at 5
Ghz...

My two cents... 

-Original Message-
From: Theresa M Rowe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:37 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

We have wireless-only dorms.  We have more complaints from 
those areas than we do from our new student apartments, 
which are a mix of wire and wireless.  There are issues.  

First, you need greater density of wireless access points 
than you do in other campus areas.  

Student build lofts and have bookcases, and there are lots 
of corners that all add up to problematic coverage.

Students like to play games and do other kinds of high 
bandwidth activities that are not necessarily compatible 
with shared bandwidth access points.

Students expect wireless in their living area to perform 
like the cable modem or DSL they had at home.

You have to have strong messaging about the right network 
cards for your environment.

You need to have a strong replacement cycle.  We are on our 
second generation and we find that student appetite for 
bandwidth creates technical obsolescence for wireless faster 
than wired ports.

All the other problems we have are more related to 
insatiable bandwidth appetite more than wireless.
Theresa Rowe
Assistant Vice President
University Technology Services
www.oakland.edu/uts - the latest news from University Technology
Services

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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Theresa M Rowe]

We have wireless-only dorms.  We have more complaints from 
those areas than we do from our new student apartments, 
which are a mix of wire and wireless.  There are issues.  

First, you need greater density of wireless access points 
than you do in other campus areas.  

Student build lofts and have bookcases, and there are lots 
of corners that all add up to problematic coverage.

Students like to play games and do other kinds of high 
bandwidth activities that are not necessarily compatible 
with shared bandwidth access points.

Students expect wireless in their living area to perform 
like the cable modem or DSL they had at home.

You have to have strong messaging about the right network 
cards for your environment.

You need to have a strong replacement cycle.  We are on our 
second generation and we find that student appetite for 
bandwidth creates technical obsolescence for wireless faster 
than wired ports.

All the other problems we have are more related to 
insatiable bandwidth appetite more than wireless.
Theresa Rowe
Assistant Vice President
University Technology Services
www.oakland.edu/uts - the latest news from University Technology Services

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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Wireless-only Dorms?

[Michael Bean]

I would be interested as well.  We have the access points and will
probably install them over the winter break.  



Michael H. Bean
PC Technician 
Information Services
University of Saint Mary
4100 South 4th Street
Leavenworth, KS  66048
682-5151 ext. 6999
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/9/2005 6:50 AM >>>
Wondering if anybody is moving forward with residential halls that are
100% wireless only, with no wired connectivity. If so, how is it
working
out?

Regards-

Lee Badman

Lee H. Badman
Network Engineer
CWSP, CWNA (CWNP011288)
Computing and Media Services (NSS)
250 Machinery Hall
Syracuse University
Syracuse, NY 13244
(315) 443-3003 Voice
(315) 443-1621 Fax

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