Re: [WSG] Going Mad with pleasing the browsers
HiRyan
Thanks for thereply.
As for the menu
#mainnav ul li #services{
background-image: url(../../images/global/mainnav/services.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height: 113px;
width: 82px;
background-position: left top;
display: block;
padding-right: 10px;}
I haven't seen any problems from my side in IE. You mentioned using voicefamily. What is that? Dumb question I know but I have no idea what it is. IE has that padding problem only for the 1st div in the main container right?
For #contentwrapper and #contentcontainer, I used 2 instead of one because I needed the background image to synchronise. Didn't even know I got around not using hack by doing this. I am very new to all these so I am doing it through trial and error. How would you do it? Needed 3 background images due to the gradients.
I still haven't find a way to solve these problems: Anyone knows how to?
1) Opera only: The hover at the main navigation on the top of the page is not working.
2) Netscape only: For short page - Netscape refuses to show the background because the sidebar (column 2) is floated to the right and it is longer than the 1st column. It will show the background if the 1st column is longer but that is not what I want. I do not want to be restricted. I want flexibility of text length in either columns.
Best Wishes
Jaime
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 02/03/04 21:56:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Going Mad with pleasing the browsers
That's the thing though - you'll have to use hacks. Now, hacks are commonplace in order to maintain browser compatibility in CSS. We can all entend a big poop-covered handshake over to our Microsoft boys for placing us in this position. Understand that it is the fault of the browsers and not of the language itself that CSS hacks are completely necessary if you are going tableless and have either padding or border properties in your CSS file. Margins don't cause problems.If you are unfamiliar with the box model, here's a short rundown (aka why you need to use CSS hacks) ... and also, your little "be nice to netscape" rule there is technically a hack as well. cough ;) we'll let that one slide heh heh.Say you have a div, in your case controlled by #contentwrapper#contentcontainer {
position: relative;
width: 747px;
background-image: url(../../images/global/backgrounds/contents_tiler.gif);
background-color: #365878;
background-repeat: repeat-y;
background-position: left top;
}#contentwrapper {font-size: 1em;text-align: justify;line-height: 1.8em;background-image: url(../../images/global/backgrounds/border.gif);background-repeat: no-repeat;background-position: right top;padding-bottom: 1px; /*Fix NS 7 bug where it breaks footer from the contents container */padding-top: 30px;rem_padding-left: 20px;padding-right: 35px;}Let's cut out all the other garbage for length's sake and deal with hack-worthy material.#contentcontainer {
width: 747px;
}
#contentwrapper {padding-bottom: 1px; /*Fix NS 7 bug where it breaks footer from the contents container */padding-top: 30px;rem_padding-left: 20px;padding-right: 35px;}You've chosen a most interesting way to get around not using a hack by placing the box within a box, and then not specifying a width in the inner container. I would opt for a hack here and save some filesize. In addition to hacks for IE, it's common to see them for Opera as well. Opera users though are much more keen to actually updating their software when a new version comes out. Why some people are still using IE5.0 at home is beyond me. Maybe they didn't get the memo.In other areas, there are some possible problems.#mainnav ul li #services{
background-image: url(../../images/global/mainnav/services.gif);
background-repeat: no-repeat;
height: 113px;
width: 82px;
background-position: left top;
display: block;
padding-right: 10px;}Your width will not be 82px there, it will be 92px in IE. (82 + 10). If you hadborder: 1px solid #000;in there as well, it would be 1 + 82 + 10 + 1 or 94 pixels. That's what the screwed up box model handling of IE does, adds width plus border size, plus padding to determine the size of the overall box. You're bound to run into a wall somewhere along the line if you're doing tablefree layouts hackless. I always use the voice-family flavour to spoof the retarded browsers, but there are other methods that work equally as well. I don't particularly like using hacks either, and I see the basis behind this recent tableless layout deal as well - tables are for tabular data, not for web layouts. When the table property was created, layouts were not in the minds of those making it. It's all about meaning. That's why there was the definition wars in here awhile back. What constitutes their correct usage? Text definitions or a broader spectrum? I say broader spectrum within reasonable boundaries.I wish I could say there will come a day when hacks are but a laughable history. Hopefully I'll live to see it,
Re: [WSG] Image floating question
Good evening James, It was foretold that on 5-2-2004 @ 14:34:33 GMT+1100 (which was 4:34:33 where I live) James Cowperthwaite would mumble: snipped a bit JC The right image now slides over the top of the left instead of breaking and going onto a JC new line. JC Maybe not the best way to do it though... any thoughts? There is no way to use pure css for what you want i'm afraid. You could use the underscore hack as i said but that will not validate your css sheet. So you can also use an IE proprietary expression [1) or JS [2] You can use the min-width in your main css sheet for decent browsers and use a sheet for crappy IE with the expression and feed it to IE with a conditional comment in your source code. You could also place a fix-width div inside the main div to force it to be at least the width you need, but then you're hacking the markup in a way that affects all browsers, rather than creating one invalid rule for one invalid browser, which can easily be dropped later if IE ever shapes up. [1] http://www.svendtofte.com/code/max_width_in_ie/ (2] http://www.doxdesk.com/software/js/minmax.html -- Best regards, Luc _ http://www.dzinelabs.com Powered by The Bat! version 1.63 Beta/7 with Windows 2000 (build 2195), version 5.0 Service Pack 4 and using the best browser: Opera. Happiness is an imaginary condition, formerly often attributed by the living to the dead, now usually attributed by adults to children. - Thomas Szasz (1920-) - US psychiatrist * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Could someone please do a little testing for me?
I have posted a screenshot on: http://free.hostdepartment.com/f/fnbeta/docs/images/screenshot-ie5.0-www-flemingclinics-com-au.jpg The menu popup is shifted too far to the left. I'll have to look at your code in abit, I'm afraid. HTH, Martin E. - Original Message - From: Seona Bellamy To: WSG List Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 7:34 PM Subject: [WSG] Could someone please do a little testing for me? Hi all,I need to do a small test in IE5, but I don't have access to a copy of it.And since the bit I need to test is the hover action on the menus,BrowserCam is not going to do the trick I think.So could someone who has IE5 please have a look athttp://www.flemingclinics.com.au and run the mouse over the menu bar at theside? I need to know where the sub-menus are appearing, since my client (whois running IE5 has said that they are appearing over the main menu bar. I'vemade some code changes, and I want to see if I've shifted it far enough. Andfrankly, I would prefer to do it without resorting to asking my client,since every time I talk to him I'm faced with the urge to smack him aroundthe head lately. *sigh*Cheers,Seona.---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 30/01/2004*The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/*
Re: [WSG] Could someone please do a little testing for me?
A bit more info: Same results in ie 5.5 sp2 as 5.01 sp2. ie 4.01 sp1 (not that you asked, but for educational purposes :~), the menu is really mixed up: http://free.hostdepartment.com/f/fnbeta/docs/images/screenshot-ie4-01-www-flemingclinics-com-au.jpg Martin E. - Original Message - From: Martin E To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] Could someone please do a little testing for me? I have posted a screenshot on: http://free.hostdepartment.com/f/fnbeta/docs/images/screenshot-ie5.0-www-flemingclinics-com-au.jpg The menu popup is shifted too far to the left. I'll have to look at your code in abit, I'm afraid. HTH, Martin E. - Original Message - From: Seona Bellamy To: WSG List Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 7:34 PM Subject: [WSG] Could someone please do a little testing for me? Hi all,I need to do a small test in IE5, but I don't have access to a copy of it.And since the bit I need to test is the hover action on the menus,BrowserCam is not going to do the trick I think.So could someone who has IE5 please have a look athttp://www.flemingclinics.com.au and run the mouse over the menu bar at theside? I need to know where the sub-menus are appearing, since my client (whois running IE5 has said that they are appearing over the main menu bar. I'vemade some code changes, and I want to see if I've shifted it far enough. Andfrankly, I would prefer to do it without resorting to asking my client,since every time I talk to him I'm faced with the urge to smack him aroundthe head lately. *sigh*Cheers,Seona.---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.576 / Virus Database: 365 - Release Date: 30/01/2004*The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/*
Re: [WSG] Strange IE5 Mac rendering
Validate (as well as posting your site here) via its IP, until DNS resolves... Validate by URI: http://free.hostdepartment.com/f/fnbeta/ so... IP: http://38.114.140.162/f/fnbeta - Original Message - From: Mark Stanton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 11:46 PM Subject: [WSG] Strange IE5 Mac rendering Hi AllJust a quick one that only seems to affect IE5/MAC:http://www.basketsgalore.com.auhttp://www.basketsgalore.com.au/lib/styles.cssThe first paragraph shoots way off the page - any ideas?One other note - I just tried to validate this on the W3C validator and it looks like the DNS has not come across to our server yet (brand new site). If you get a directory listing don't worry about.CheersMark--Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 9956 6388Mob: 0410 458 201 Fax: 9956 8433 http://www.gruden.com*The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/*
[WSG] Some links...
W3C's CSS validator is broken at present it seems: http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0204b.shtml http://www.mezzoblue.com/archives/2004/02/05/css_validati/ http://www.stopdesign.com/log/2004/02/05/bebad.html http://www.saila.com/columns/lcky/index.shtml?2004_02_01_archive.shtml#lcky2 00402051411 SimpleBits SimpleQuiz on breadcrumbs: http://www.simplebits.com/archives/2004/02/04/sqxii.html CSS Depot: http://www.mentalized.net/cssdepot/ Even the master gets frustrated with IE: http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/200402.html#d05 Andy Budd CSS Crib sheet 3 - Centering a Div: http://www.andybudd.com/blog/archives/000150.html More than just a footer: http://www.digital-web.com/columns/ianythinggoes/more_than_just_a_footer.sht ml Thanks Russ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] Right column longer = error
Hi Guys, New to the list and really have been enjoying reading it all. I am having an issue with using fauxcolumns. Everything is fine if the left column content is longer than the right, but if the right column content is longer the image stops. I fixed this by adding the image within the #rap (container) div and works fine in IE but not Mozilla? That must be a first!! If any of you have time to have a look on a sleepy friday that would be tops. Note: Developing for Wordpress system so I can't modify the html in any way. Here are links to the pages. http://www.e-lusion.com/design/humancondition/index.htm This page shows everthing is in order. http://www.e-lusion.com/design/humancondition/comments.htm This page shows the right column causing problems (please view in both IE and Mozilla to see difference) http://www.e-lusion.com/design/humancondition/style.css Thanks guys. Ian. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Right column longer = error
Ian, Doesn't work in IE5 Mac or Safari. But I think it's because your #content div is floated left and your #menu div floated right, and taking them out of the normal flow of the document. What you're seeing would be a bug in IE for PC, I suspect. Your fix may be to put your credit class, perhaps as DIV, inside your last closing /DIV, with clear: left. Which is, of course, changing the HTML. Sigh. HTH. -Hugh Todd I am having an issue with using fauxcolumns. Everything is fine if the left column content is longer than the right, but if the right column content is longer the image stops. I fixed this by adding the image within the #rap (container) div and works fine in IE but not Mozilla? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Right column longer = error
Hi Ian Really great site you got! try adding this before your last closing div: div style='clear: both;'/div This will help you a little, and then I think you should float the menu div left instead of right. You can only do this if you decreases the size of the content div, and minimizing the padding, and then you should be all right in Mozilla! Chears Anders - Original Message - From: Ian Main [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 11:17 PM Subject: [WSG] Right column longer = error Hi Guys, New to the list and really have been enjoying reading it all. I am having an issue with using fauxcolumns. Everything is fine if the left column content is longer than the right, but if the right column content is longer the image stops. I fixed this by adding the image within the #rap (container) div and works fine in IE but not Mozilla? That must be a first!! If any of you have time to have a look on a sleepy friday that would be tops. Note: Developing for Wordpress system so I can't modify the html in any way. Here are links to the pages. http://www.e-lusion.com/design/humancondition/index.htm This page shows everthing is in order. http://www.e-lusion.com/design/humancondition/comments.htm This page shows the right column causing problems (please view in both IE and Mozilla to see difference) http://www.e-lusion.com/design/humancondition/style.css Thanks guys. Ian. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Strange IE5 Mac rendering - should be right now!
Hey Martin We use host headers to run multiple sites from the 1 IP address so this is not an option :( Anyway I think the DNS has resolved now, but if it hasn't you can try http://basketsgalore.gruden.com. Cheers Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 9956 6388 Mob: 0410 458 201 Fax: 9956 8433 http://www.gruden.com http://www.gruden.com/ smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [WSG] Strange IE5 Mac rendering
Mark
Maybe try adding
#textContent p {
width: 450px;
margin-right: 0;
color: #564370;
margin-top: 1em;
}
Cheers
Chris Blown
On Thu, 2004-02-05 at 18:46, Mark Stanton wrote:
Hi All
Just a quick one that only seems to affect IE5/MAC:
http://www.basketsgalore.com.au
http://www.basketsgalore.com.au/lib/styles.css
The first paragraph shoots way off the page - any ideas?
One other note - I just tried to validate this on the W3C validator and it looks
like the DNS has not come across to our server yet (brand new site). If you get a
directory listing don't worry about.
Cheers
Mark
--
Mark Stanton
Technical Director
Gruden Pty Ltd
Tel: 9956 6388
Mob: 0410 458 201
Fax: 9956 8433
http://www.gruden.com
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[WSG] shorthand borders
Hey: Would this be considered a correct thing to do? (for a fieldset tag) border : none; border-top : 2px solid #315279; instead of border-left : none; border-right : none; border-bottom : none; border-top : 2px solid #315279; (Most browsers will render a default border for a fieldset). Cheers James * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] Special Sydney WSG Meeting!
The next Sydney meeting is just two and half weeks away! This is a joint Web Standards Group, Macromedia User Group and Cold Fusion User Group meeting. Please note the change of day and venue! Date: Monday, 23 February 2004 Time: 6.00pm for 7.00pm Venue: Star City, Darling Harbour, Sydney Australia (http://www.mxdu.com/go/venue/) Cost: FREE! And giveaways! As a lead in to the MXDU 2004 conference, the special joint Web Standards Group, Macromedia User Group and Cold Fusion User Group Meeting is an event you will not want to miss. Russ Weakley of Max Design will deliver a web standards presentation on the practical benefits to your visitors, your clients and yourself! Our special guest speaker is Sean Corfield, Director of Architecture at Macromedia, all the way from San Francisco. Sean will explain how Macromedia created its Accessibility Guidelines, and let us know how well they adhere to them and other standards. If you can make it, please help us by sending an RSVP to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Standards Group http://www.webstandardsgroup.org/ About MXDU 2004 MXDU is all about building the best experiences and Rich Internet Applications on the web. Featuring a stellar line up of speaking talent from around the world and separate client-side, server-side and experience tracks; if you use any shade of Macromedia technology you have to attend this event! To find out more please visit http://www.mxdu.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Strange IE5 Mac rendering
Thanks Chris Width on the para fixed it. Kinda odd though isn't it? Cheers Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 9956 6388 Mob: 0410 458 201 Fax: 9956 8433 http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Special Sydney WSG Meeting!
As Ben said, this is a radically different meeting to most of the WSG ones - with an international star and a much larger group. Should be very exciting! We hope all Sydney members can all make it. We'll do our best to get the presentations online for international WSG members as soon as possible after the event. Peter and I would like to thank three people/groups for making this happen: Ben Bishop has done a huge amount of organising to get this event up and running. Andrew Muller has organised the venue, catering and everything at no cost to the WSG members. Finally, Mark Stanton and the Grudenites have organised and paid for the printing of our first ever WSG flyers - wohoo! Thanks guys!!! Russ and Peter The next Sydney meeting is just two and half weeks away! This is a joint Web Standards Group, Macromedia User Group and Cold Fusion User Group meeting. Please note the change of day and venue! Date: Monday, 23 February 2004 Time: 6.00pm for 7.00pm Venue: Star City, Darling Harbour, Sydney Australia (http://www.mxdu.com/go/venue/) Cost: FREE! And giveaways! As a lead in to the MXDU 2004 conference, the special joint Web Standards Group, Macromedia User Group and Cold Fusion User Group Meeting is an event you will not want to miss. Russ Weakley of Max Design will deliver a web standards presentation on the practical benefits to your visitors, your clients and yourself! Our special guest speaker is Sean Corfield, Director of Architecture at Macromedia, all the way from San Francisco. Sean will explain how Macromedia created its Accessibility Guidelines, and let us know how well they adhere to them and other standards. If you can make it, please help us by sending an RSVP to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Standards Group http://www.webstandardsgroup.org/ About MXDU 2004 MXDU is all about building the best experiences and Rich Internet Applications on the web. Featuring a stellar line up of speaking talent from around the world and separate client-side, server-side and experience tracks; if you use any shade of Macromedia technology you have to attend this event! To find out more please visit http://www.mxdu.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * Thanks Russ --- Russ Weakley Max Design Phone: (02) 9410 2521 Mobile: 0403 433 980 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.maxdesign.com.au --- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] Special Sydney WSG Meeting!
Mark Stanton and the Grudenites ..Are they playing live at the gig? russ weakley wrote: As Ben said, this is a radically different meeting to most of the WSG ones - with an international star and a much larger group. Should be very exciting! We hope all Sydney members can all make it. We'll do our best to get the presentations online for international WSG members as soon as possible after the event. Peter and I would like to thank three people/groups for making this happen: Ben Bishop has done a huge amount of organising to get this event up and running. Andrew Muller has organised the venue, catering and everything at no cost to the WSG members. Finally, Mark Stanton and the Grudenites have organised and paid for the printing of our first ever WSG flyers - wohoo! Thanks guys!!! Russ and Peter * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Special Sydney WSG Meeting!
There's been a few rumours that we might be supporting Russ the Max Designers, Ben the Daemonites and Sean the Macromedians. But nothing is going to be confirmed because we don't want groupies getting wind of all this. Its all very hush hush at the moment - I'm sure you understand. Cheers Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 9956 6388 Mob: 0410 458 201 Fax: 9956 8433 http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
