RE: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

[Webb, KerryA]

 
>
> On 10 Nov 2010, at 22:34, cat soul wrote:
>
> > Any thoughts on which we ought to be using
>
> HTML, since it works in IE < 9 without having to pretend it is HTML.
>
> 4.01, since it is a stable recommendation with mature QA tools (unless you
> have a need for features added in HTML5 and are willing to life on the
> bleeding edge)
>
> Strict, unless you need something only offered by Transitional (in which
> case think twice as not being in Strict is a clue that you probably
> shouldn't use something).
>
>
> > , and what information ought to be up at top of an HTML page, along with
> , etc?
>
> Title is mandatory.
>
> Meta charset if you think people are more likely to view a locally saved
> copy of the document than a copy that has gone through a transcoding
> proxy.
>
> Links to any stylesheets.
>
> Scripts that need to run before the page has finished loading.
>

And, as specified by WCAG 2.0, the lang attribute in the HTML tag.

Kerry
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Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

[Micky Hulse]

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 12:01 PM, cat soul  wrote:
> thanks for that...I'll have to check it out. That title looks like a
> must-have...they offer another for CSS as well, endorsed by none other than
> Eric Meyer.

Yah, I think I will pick that one up also! :)

"CSS3 For Web Designers"


"This book will be released on November 16th."

Should be a good read. :)

Cheers,
Micky

-- 
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Web Content Editor
The Register-Guard
3500 Chad Drive
Eugene, OR 97408
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Re: [WSG] mixing media queries?

[Micky Hulse]

Howdy,

On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 2:16 PM, tee  wrote:
> ..
> The example in this site brings clarity.
> http://protofluid.com/?c=mediaQueries

Oooh, thanks for link. Also, thanks for posting your observations and solutions.

Glad you got it figured out!

Have a great day!

Cheers,
Micky

-- 
Micky Hulse
Web Content Editor
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Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

[cat soul]

On Nov 11, 2010, at 11:47 AM, Micky Hulse wrote:


Howdy!

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:23 AM, cat soul   
wrote:
I see that one of the choices is the eBook form...can that be read  
on a Mac?


Good question!

Looks like the "ebook" includes PDF, ePub, and mobi formats.

I am sure there are ePub readers on Mac. I usually don't mind reading
the PDF myself. :)



thanks for that...I'll have to check it out. That title looks like a  
must-have...they offer another for CSS as well, endorsed by none  
other than Eric Meyer.


cs


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Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

[wilbur . j . pereira]

Yep, there's the kindle reader for the Mac and a couple of other readers.


Regards,
Wilbur
Sent on my BlackBerry® from Vodafone

-Original Message-
From: Micky Hulse 
Sender: li...@webstandardsgroup.org
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:47:26 
To: 
Reply-to: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

Howdy!

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:23 AM, cat soul  wrote:
> I see that one of the choices is the eBook form...can that be read on a Mac?

Good question!

Looks like the "ebook" includes PDF, ePub, and mobi formats.

I am sure there are ePub readers on Mac. I usually don't mind reading
the PDF myself. :)

Have a great day!

Cheers,
Micky

-- 
Micky Hulse
Web Content Editor
The Register-Guard
3500 Chad Drive
Eugene, OR 97408
Phone: (541) 338-2621
Fax: (541) 683-7631
Web: 


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Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

[Micky Hulse]

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Micky Hulse
 wrote:
> Looks like the "ebook" includes PDF, ePub, and mobi formats.

Looks like one of the chapters is online:

"A Brief History of Markup"


I thought that chapter was a pretty interesting read. :)

Cheers,
Micky

-- 
Micky Hulse
Web Content Editor
The Register-Guard
3500 Chad Drive
Eugene, OR 97408
Phone: (541) 338-2621
Fax: (541) 683-7631
Web: 


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Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

[Micky Hulse]

Howdy!

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:23 AM, cat soul  wrote:
> I see that one of the choices is the eBook form...can that be read on a Mac?

Good question!

Looks like the "ebook" includes PDF, ePub, and mobi formats.

I am sure there are ePub readers on Mac. I usually don't mind reading
the PDF myself. :)

Have a great day!

Cheers,
Micky

-- 
Micky Hulse
Web Content Editor
The Register-Guard
3500 Chad Drive
Eugene, OR 97408
Phone: (541) 338-2621
Fax: (541) 683-7631
Web: 


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Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

[cat soul]

On Nov 11, 2010, at 9:31 AM, Micky Hulse wrote:


I just finished reading HTML5 for web designers, and I thought it was
a pretty good introduction to HTML5.



An easy read. Very short book.

Cheers,
Micky


I see that one of the choices is the eBook form...can that be read on  
a Mac?


thanks!

cs


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Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

[Micky Hulse]

On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Chris Taylor
 wrote:
> And there's Andy Clarke's new book "Hardboiled Web Design" which deals with 
> HTML5 and more: http://hardboiledwebdesign.com/
> So "is HTML5 ready", as far as http://ishtml5readyyet.com/ sees it isn't the 
> same as "can I use parts of this spec yet?"

I just finished reading HTML5 for web designers, and I thought it was
a pretty good introduction to HTML5.



An easy read. Very short book.

Cheers,
Micky


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Re: [WSG] all media queries in one style sheet Vs individually served

[G.Sørtun]

Years since I tested what browsers actually did, and much has changed 
since then.


I do prefer to spread styles in logical groups over a few stylesheets, 
to a certain degree. If nothing else it helps on maintenance and reuse.



1.  Will the desktop browser stops loading the above 3 media unless 
requested?


A browser will load everything, as long as it supports, or pretends to 
support, the link or @import media and queries used. It will put styles 
to use as needed and supported.



2.  If I link each media type individually, does the desktop browser 
actually load the above 3 style sheets?


Same answer.


Similarly, will it not  better for targeted device not loading two of the media 
types? If a targeted device loads only the correct style sheets, it will be 2 
HTTP requests (one for main style and one for targeted media type) but the file 
size of each style sheet is significant reduce, and this seems to be beneficial 
especially for bandwidth concerned mobile devices. Yes?


Back in the days we used link and/or @import media and queries as 
filters to /hack/ browsers - to make them load or not load specific 
stylesheets. Today we at least try to be a bit more advanced, and use 
link and/or @import media and queries as filters to /target/ browsers 
and devices - to make them load or not load specific stylesheets. 
Reasons may have changed amongst conscious web designers , but browsers 
are evolving, so too much deliberate filtering at the link and @import 
stages may mean an existing or future browser/device that can, and 
should be given a chance to, handle specific styles, won't load them.


So, it is my advice that you don't filter more than you have to at the 
link and @import stages, even if that means slightly fatter stylesheets.



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Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

[David Dorward]

 
On 11 Nov 2010, at 10:50, Chris Taylor wrote:

> From: David Dorward
> Sent: 11 November 2010 10:30
> 
>> On 11 Nov 2010, at 09:18, Chris Taylor wrote:
>>> In fact, this is HTML5-style -  - but will work fine in all 
>>> browsers (as far as I know).
> 
>> When you come to perform basic QA using a validator, on the other hand, you 
>> get very different results.
> 
> Agreed, and it is a problem, but how much of that problem is validators not 
> being updated? To be honest, if that's the only error I get from a validator 
> I'd feel I was doing a decent job. The crux is, as it has always been, what 
> actually happens in browsers themselves.

Error? I wasn't suggesting that a validator would complain about the Doctype. 
It will either fail to recognise it (and thus refuse to do any validation) or 
it will trigger HTML5 validation. This isn't built on HTML 4.01 validation 
since HTML 5 is not an SGML application. The result is that you get a 
completely different validation engine — one that isn't mature and is still 
trying to track a moving target.

-- 
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk



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RE: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

[Chris Taylor]

From: David Dorward
Sent: 11 November 2010 10:30

> On 11 Nov 2010, at 09:18, Chris Taylor wrote:
>> In fact, this is HTML5-style -  - but will work fine in all 
>> browsers (as far as I know).

>  When you come to perform basic QA using a validator, on the other hand, you 
> get very different results.

Agreed, and it is a problem, but how much of that problem is validators not 
being updated? To be honest, if that's the only error I get from a validator 
I'd feel I was doing a decent job. The crux is, as it has always been, what 
actually happens in browsers themselves.

Chris



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Re: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

[David Dorward]

On 11 Nov 2010, at 09:18, Chris Taylor wrote:
> HTML5 as a finished, published spec may be 10 years off, but there are plenty 
> of HTML5 features you can use right now with some careful handling of older 
> (IE) browsers. The future is already among us.
> 
> In fact, this is HTML5-style -  - but will work fine in all 
> browsers (as far as I know).

As far as browsers are concerned, it is will act no differently to HTML 4.01 
Strict (or a number of other Doctypes). When you come to perform basic QA using 
a validator, on the other hand, you get very different results.

-- 
David Dorward
http://dorward.me.uk



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RE: [WSG] XHTML or HTML?

[Chris Taylor]

From: cat soul
Sent: 10 November 2010 23:32
> Great! Most everyone else is saying HTML5 is 10 years off and not to
> code for it, not to worry about it until then.

HTML5 as a finished, published spec may be 10 years off, but there are plenty 
of HTML5 features you can use right now with some careful handling of older 
(IE) browsers. The future is already among us.

In fact, this is HTML5-style -  - but will work fine in all 
browsers (as far as I know).

For more information check out:

http://html5doctor.com/how-to-use-html5-in-your-client-work-right-now/
http://diveintohtml5.org/
http://www.html5rocks.com/

And there's Andy Clarke's new book "Hardboiled Web Design" which deals with 
HTML5 and more: http://hardboiledwebdesign.com/

So "is HTML5 ready", as far as http://ishtml5readyyet.com/ sees it isn't the 
same as "can I use parts of this spec yet?"

Chris


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