[WSG] Importing hacks into CSS? Whats the point?
I was reading the article Integrated Web Design: Strategies for Long-Term CSS Hack Management: http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=170511 Referred to by Russ in his very useful links for light reading and I read this article. Amongst other things it suggests not putting hacks into your CSS file, but instead importing them from another external hack file. Like this: [code] /* importing hi-pass filter */ @import hi-pass.css; [/code] The article says that by using this method, you have all your hacks in files external to the main css file and can easily be dispensed with when you finally determine that time has moved along and the hacks are no longer required. Fair enough. I understand the point, I think, except that I don't think you gain anything at all by it, except more complexity in the site's file structure. Every hack now represents one more file that has to be uploaded, version controlled, backed up, managed etc. I'd have thought it was simpler to have the hack actually in the main css file, and commented adequately so it was easy to find there.Or am I missing the point? Does anyone else agree? Disagree? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Importing hacks into CSS? Whats the point?
Mike You're right, a typical site i develop already has * main style sheet * imported style sheet for older browsers * print style sheet which is complex enough, at worst I might consider a single hacks.css file but only as a last resort -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav Michael Kear wrote: I was reading the article Integrated Web Design: Strategies for Long-Term CSS Hack Management: http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=170511 Referred to by Russ in his very useful links for light reading and I read this article. Amongst other things it suggests not putting hacks into your CSS file, but instead importing them from another external hack file. Like this: [code] /* importing hi-pass filter */ @import hi-pass.css; [/code] The article says that by using this method, you have all your hacks in files external to the main css file and can easily be dispensed with when you finally determine that time has moved along and the hacks are no longer required. Fair enough. I understand the point, I think, except that I don't think you gain anything at all by it, except more complexity in the site's file structure. Every hack now represents one more file that has to be uploaded, version controlled, backed up, managed etc. I'd have thought it was simpler to have the hack actually in the main css file, and commented adequately so it was easy to find there.Or am I missing the point? Does anyone else agree? Disagree? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Importing hacks into CSS? Whats the point?
Michael Kear spoke the following wise words on 28/06/2004 10:05 AM EST: Fair enough. I understand the point, I think, except that I don't think you gain anything at all by it, except more complexity in the site's file structure. Every hack now represents one more file that has to be uploaded, version controlled, backed up, managed etc. If your file management workload is directly proportional to the number of files you manage (and we are talking no more than 50 extra files in most cases) then I think it's time you you invest in some tools to streamline your processes. I'd have thought it was simpler to have the hack actually in the main css file, and commented adequately so it was easy to find there.Or am I missing the point? My compromise is to place all hacks for [insert your favourite buggy browser] into it's own CSS file. CSS hack techniques are forever changing. CSS fundamentals are set in stone. -- tim lucas http://www.toolmantim.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Importing hacks into CSS? Whats the point?
Tim Lucas wrote: My compromise is to place all hacks for [insert your favourite buggy browser] into it's own CSS file. CSS hack techniques are forever changing. CSS fundamentals are set in stone. I'm with Mike on this. I don't see a benefit. In fact, when I read the article it looked like more work to me : 1. Hacks in main CSS file - Hack gets outdated, edit CSS file and remove hack 2. Hacks in separate CSS file - Hack gets outdated, edit CSS file and remove import, then delete separate hack file There is an extra step. No huge difference, so I'd be willing to do it for a benefit, but I just don't see one. If (and I think this is what Mike was asking) anyone can demonstrate a potential benefit from this process, please enlighten me (us) Cheers, Lachlan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Importing hacks into CSS? Whats the point?
On Monday, June 28, 2004, at 12:01 PM, Lachlan Hardy wrote: I'm with Mike on this. I don't see a benefit. In fact, when I read the article it looked like more work to me : 1. Hacks in main CSS file - Hack gets outdated, edit CSS file and remove hack 2. Hacks in separate CSS file - Hack gets outdated, edit CSS file and remove import, then delete separate hack file There is an extra step. No huge difference, so I'd be willing to do it for a benefit, but I just don't see one. If (and I think this is what Mike was asking) anyone can demonstrate a potential benefit from this process, please enlighten me (us) Cheers, Lachlan Your way: open css file, search thru (possibly) 100s of lines of code to locate hack, double-check selector so you're removing the hack on the right declaration, repeat, rinse, save and close, upload. My way: open css file, delete one @import rule (line #1), save, close, upload. Delete css hacks file. There may be an extra file involved, but I know which is faster... Nick ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Importing hacks into CSS? Whats the point?
Nick Gleitzman wrote: There may be an extra file involved, but I know which is faster... Hmmm... I guess it is a case of whatever works for the individual. I don't have a problem with running the search as I comment use of all hacks, so I just find 'hack' and I'm there... So the benefit is one of speed? Or segregation - keeping the clean code from the dirty nasty hacks? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Importing hacks into CSS? Whats the point?
Lachlan Hardy spoke the following wise words on 28/06/2004 1:53 PM EST: So the benefit is one of speed? Or segregation - keeping the clean code from the dirty nasty hacks? CSS hacks are only a technical workaround and provide little meaning to the CSS when viewed by somebody other than the author. For some projects I separate layout, colours, fonts and hacks into their own CSS files. This is usually because I'm writing the CSS for somebody else to understand and maintain. For my personal website I wouldn't want to separate all those facets. I'm happy with a single stylesheet containing everything as it's easier for *me* to maintain. There is no cardinal rule -- simply deliver the solution that is best for your client. -- tim lucas http://www.toolmantim.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
