Re: [WSG] web design presentation: advice?
On 13 Apr 2005, at 1:16 PM, Zulema wrote: ps: butterflies in my stomach means that my tummy gets grumbly as if I'm hungry but it's from being nervous; it's a common saying in the States. As far as it being an in-code joke? No, at least i don't think so :-p Uh - I know... but your original post had a typo: butterFILES. Code... HTML... Files... Geddit? ;-) Sorry, I should cease these feeble attempts at humour... (oh - sorry again, that's humor.) N ___ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] web design presentation: advice?
On 12 Apr 2005, at 12:35 PM, info wrote: Hi all, I'm going to make a presentation to art students on an introduction to web design and would like some advice (besides how to deal with the butterfiles in the stomach). Butterfiles. I love it. Is that a code in-joke? Seriously, the other answerers have made some good points, but I think there are a couple that haven't been directly mentioned that should be: 1. Web design is liquid - or should be. A magazine reader can't make the page a different size and shape; a web surfer can. The design of a good web page needs to withstand resizing/reshaping - within practical limits. 2. The use of good coding practice (that which we refer to as 'Web Standards') to effect the separation of content and presentational styling. And this goes hand in hand with... 3. Coding in such a way as to make the web pages accessible to *all* visitors - whether visually or motor-function impaired, or simply via simpler browsing devices, like old browsers or mobile phones. This last is a tough one to sell to visual design students (I have a number of clients, photographers, whose attitude tends to be 'If they can't see my photos, why should I care?'), but it's really a courteous way to design using this medium. Throw them the old (McLuhan?) chestnut: Form Follows Function. Best of luck with your presentation! N __ Omnivision. Websight. http://www.omnivision.com.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] web design presentation: advice?
All these point are great, but party for more experienced web designers. Tell them please not to use imageready or wysiwyg in dw for making the layout. This is the way that most of visual designers use to make web sites. The have a different view of web design, for them it's just visual designing and then some magic to make the page from the image, that can be made by an application. Try to show them that this is not the good way. -- Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] web design presentation: advice?
thank you to all who replied with wonderful advice! The presentation I created[1] was recieved with much love and appreciation. The questions that the students asked were along the lines of: 1. What do you mean when you say that IE breaks the code? -- you know the answer to that one ;) 2. What are the top browsers I should test on? -- the biggies on Mac and PC: IE, Mozilla, Opera, Netscape, MacSafari (if possible Linux Konqueror) 3. What are the steps I need to take to get webspace/domain name? -- buy domain name; buy webspace; learn FTP; voila 4. What's bandwidth? -- every time your webpage is visited it's downloaded; monthly limit based on your host 5. Do I have to pay to get X search engine to crawl my site? -- no, it's free; pay if you want top, highlighted results or to be placed as ads 6. How can my website make money for me? -- ads; sell your artwork (big discussion on shopping carts vs. PayPal) It was so exciting to talk ab/t web standards and all that I'm passionate about. It felt great to explain why learning to code by hand is highly important before jumping into Dreamweaver (I explained that Dreamweaver has so many features and widgets that if you don't know what the code means, you won't know what it's doing, why it did A or B, etc. etc). I touched on other important topics like: SEO, Accessibility and explained that these are tools that you need to be introduced to so once your familiar with HTML and CSS what the next steps are to take. I also explained the difference between stealing code and learning from and changing code. I'm so glad I got to do this and hope that everyone can do this at least once! Thanks again for the advice and support! caio, Zulema ps: butterflies in my stomach means that my tummy gets grumbly as if I'm hungry but it's from being nervous; it's a common saying in the States. As far as it being an in-code joke? No, at least i don't think so :-p [1] Intro to web design : http://zoblue.com/web-design/ -- Z u l e m a O r t i z w e b d e s i g n e r email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] website : http://zoblue.com/ weblog : http://blog.zoblue.com/ browser : http://getfirefox.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] web design presentation: advice?
Zulema wrote: ps: butterflies in my stomach means that my tummy gets grumbly as if I'm hungry but it's from being nervous; it's a common saying in the States. As far as it being an in-code joke? No, at least i don't think so :-p Nick was referring to you use of 'butterfiles'. Butterflies is also a common phrase in Aus. Glad to hear the presentation went over well, I was keen to hear what the response would be like. I wish more teachers were passionate about web standards. After almost two yrs of promoting the use of CSS for layout to a local web design teacher (without much success), an introduction to W3C standards was introduced into the curriculum, which gave me the chance to quote W3C regarding the use of tables for layout. It was well received, to the extent he emailed other teachers in the faculty, stating his previous methods of design was not the best/right way, encouraging them all to learn about the W3C standards, only one of five teachers responded (I not a web design student just a friend) I'm not saying I would be a better person for the job, but that education is extremely important, teaching these fundamental techniques right from the start deserves all the praise it can get. Regards Jason ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] web design presentation: advice?
Hi all, I'm going to make a presentation to art students on an introduction to web design and would like some advice (besides how to deal with the butterfiles in the stomach). First the stats: Audience: art students who want to create portfolio websites to showcase their art work Goal: to introduce art students to web design to encourage them to learn more Teacher's Goal: to encourage the students to take web design classes in their same school to learn web design/coding Link: Intro to Web Design | http://www.zoblue.com/web-design/index.html Of course it's still in the works, but this is what I'll be presenting to them and discussing the points as I go. I used S5[1] to create my short presentation. I'd love feedback. any suggestions? any ideas? I present it tomorrow in the evening. thanks in advance! Zulema [1] Meyerweb - S5 | http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/s5/ Z u l e m a O r t i z w e b d e s i g n e r email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] website : http://zoblue.com/ weblog : http://blog.zoblue.com/ browser : http://getfirefox.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] web design presentation: advice?
Hi, I enjoyed reading your message and good points, of course. I've actually marked it for saving (well, I knew all of them but you said it all succiently!). One other point I like to make is that *color is free* on the web versus the print world. good luck with your presentation, Zulema! Cheers Donna heretic wrote: heya, I'm going to make a presentation to art students on an introduction to web design and would like some advice (besides how to deal with the butterfiles in the stomach). A few points 1) Many artsts claim that the limitations of web design restricts creativity. Realistically, a) it's not *that* limited, and b) limitation is a source of inspiration anyway. To this end I'd head that argument off at the pass by showing them the CSS Zen Garden (it's an old chestnut to us, but they probably won't have seen it). 2) Continuing the faux-eastern theme, they probably need to understand that the web is not print - again, an old chestnut: The Dao of Web Design (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/dao/). Let the web be the web - they will need to create a design which changes slightly and yet retains its spirit. A few pixels here and there is of no real concern. Just as they cannot control the mood of a patron viewing a painting, they cannot control the equipment used by their audience. 3) The web is like a print job with an unlimited budget (well ok, not really). But seriously - they won't run out of paper on the web, nor do they have to put up with cheap paper stock. So they will never need to cram an essay onto an A5 sheet - they can let a website breathe and spread comfortably. White space is just as important online as it is anywhere else. 4) Just like anything else, the medium is not the message. Their designs need to make the substance shine - they wouldn't get away with typesetting a novel in 6pt microtext; so they shouldn't expect to do it online. 5) Finally.. not everyone has a Mac G5 with a 20inch cinema display. So don't design pages according to their own gear! :) Not sure any of that really helps you, but man it was therapeutic to write it :) cheers, h -- Donna Jones West End Webs http://www.westendwebs.com/ 772-0266 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
